In love with A married man ...

[miloice]

bp, no offence, I do agree with powder last comments. This was the reason why I encouraged you to walk the walk. Life is much more dynamic, application of our principles are never straight forward.

Nevertheless, u have a good spirit and integrity. Just untested. I guess its something we have to agree to disagree at this current moment. Maybe years down the road, probably both of us could have a much evolved view.

 

[jn1234]

Discussion is good but how to discuss when some of you always sprout means words and profanities?

No one wants to make mistakes. Most sensible people will not deliberately fall in love with married people. Yes I agree you can't help if you "accidentally" fall in love with married people. You can't help when love comes. But when you come to know that the person you love is already married, shouldn't you assess the situation? If you are strong-willed and rationale enough, why can't you pull yourself out? Why can't such person be rationale enough to assess the impact on himself/herself, and on estranged couple and their kids? Why can't they assess whether they can handle such relationship? Like En Xuan's case, she obviously cannot handle. Since she can't handle, why don't she step aside for a while for some breather? Wouldn't it be better if she gives herself some space to ponder more on the relationship and her capabilities to handle the future challenges eg wrt the daugher. Wouldn't it be better if she gives her man some space to settle his issues with his ex-wife and daughter? But no, she is dictating her man listens to what she says, inciting the husband to keep away from his own daughter, calling all sort of names on the poor girl, She is also planning on how her son will be kept away from his half-sister, instead of thinking of how to get along harmoniously with the girl as part of her family. Why focus on the girl's bad habits without thinking hard enough why is she the way she is? Is the daughter borne with such poor habits or is the environment and parents caused her to be this way?

I really feel for the poor girl. She didn't choose to have such parents.

 

[jn1234]

Don't over-rate love to such extend that you are already madly in love and can't pull yourself out of a relationship with a married man. If you can't handle such relationship, why can't let the head rule over heart?

If love is so over-empowering that heart rules over head, why can some estranged couples choose the path of divorce? Do you mean that all divorced couples don't love each other? May not be so. Some really choose the path of divorce cos' they are rational. When you know there is really no other way out, so the most rational thing to do in estranged marriage is to divorce. No point dragging and make more people suffer. I believe SM is the same too. No one marry for the intention to divorce eventually. Most married for love. But when there are circumstances that result in the couple no longer able to be together, it is more rational to choose the divorce path. Eg when the wife loves her husband, but her husband does not love her anymore. Should the wife continue to wallow in sorrows because she is still deeply in love with her husband, or should she let go?

I always believe whatever situation, the head should rule over heart. Especially when kids are involved. You can choose your spouse or mistress, but kids cannot choose their parents. What fault do they have when they become what they are as a result of estranged parents/step-parents?

 

[ariel84]

Hi Blueprincess,

"Will u ever do something immoral or against ur principles n values? I m sure u will not, n nt even in d most emotional or d most tempting of situations. Esp if u r a good gal ingrained w good values."

Blueprincess, I am not so sure about myself even if you are. Have we all really never done anything "immoral or against our values"? Maybe you have not, but maybe that's because you're still young and haven't gone through enough of life (I stand corrected). I am not that old too, but I won't dare to say I will never do anything considered "immoral" in the eyes of others in future. In fact, the example I gave of myself getting married to someone of a diff religion is already "immoral" and a big Sin in the eyes of many who has the same religion as I am. In my context - yes, I am deemed to have been sinful and immoral. In fact, i lost a bunch of friends due to my choice, but that's another story.

"I think d answer is clear. U will not continue right?"

Yup, today I can tell you my answer is that I will not continue. But if this really happens to me, I am not sure what answer I will give you, to be honest.

Blueprincess, your thoughts are upright and I don't think you are wrong to uphold your values. It's just that in life, it's never so simply black and white, you know? Especially in matters of the heart.

 

[jn1234]

powder
Not that I am targetting at you or others. But I feel forum is for exchange and discussion. Especially in this forum when many are in agony already for the problems they face, why sprout mean words and sarcasm at them? But I note this is your regular style.

You may deliberately choose sarcastic words as a hard wake up call to hit on them. But those in need of help/advice are already stressed, why add to their agony with your harsh words?

Like blueprincess' case in the other thread, she is waiting earnestly for help to decipher her lots. But I really wonder your deciphering of her lot is based on your ability to read lots or you are just making a fool of her. I just wonder why a person so highly paid like you is always here in the forum? If you are in high position, these are really nitty-gritty auntie agony's problems to you but it may mean life or death to those seeking help. So why make fun of them? Are you really helping people in distress, dispensing genuine advice or just killing time in between meeting?

I always believe if you are kind to people, people will repay you with kindness. It is a better gesture to be kind in your choice of words.

 

[jn1234]

To err is human's nature. I am not faulting whoever is falling in love with married person nor faulting the strayed spouse. No one can claim to be always correct. But to continue to err when you know something is not correct, you will have to answer to your own life if you choose this path.

 

[simpleman]

Jenny:

I always believe whatever situation, the head should rule over heart. Especially when kids are involved. You can choose your spouse or mistress, but kids cannot choose their parents. What fault do they have when they become what they are as a result of estranged parents/step-parents?

Yes, ideally head should rule over heart. Not everyone can do it at all times. For such times, they need guidance and not condemnation.

As for kids, do you know what is best for the kids in the circumstances? Staying married together in a loveless marriage is not necessary good for the kids. This is one of the greatest problem of parenting - that many parents think they are doing things in the kids interest - which in actual fact - it is not the case.

There is no fault of the children yes, but estranged parents cannot just stay together purely for the sake of the children.

Our responsibilities towards our children does not end even if the parents are separated or divorce. Why can't parents still be good parents even if they are separated or divorce?

 

[september]

head rule better than heart?

well I might agree to this statement when I was younger and hv nt gone thru what I have. Now I kind of do not fully agree to it. If my head can rule better, I will not have chosen to stay with my hb who stray and then suffer all those silly emotion roller coaster and took me yrs to really let go of the incident and move on.

It is easier to say if u r the on looker but if u r the one in the mess, things r nv tat clear coz it is ur own emotion involved.

why I can still say, love happen without condition even though I am a victim of straying before, it is not tat I am tat great, but I learn to accept tat, it is life and human are emotionally weak creatures.

My close fren is also consider a 3rd party but it nv affect my friendship with her and neither did i shoot my anger on her when I discover my hb affair.

the 3rd party in fact is on my fb frenz list. coz after all, although she mayb be at fault too, but so do I and I tink the one at biggest fault is my hb, for not being able to withstand temptation.

principles n values

In my context, I alway thot, I will kick the person who betray me out of my life and alway proudly tell my frenz that if my bf or hb dare to stray, they will be out. but who know when it happen, then I realise I am nt tat 'strong'
to let him go le. also who will say ourselves is stupid right. I also thot that I am not so stupid to be cheated but yet his affairs escape my xray eyes for at least 1 yrs before I sensed something lor.

So, by holding on to the r/s does it make me stupid or foolish? the answer is up to individual. but to me it is not. at least I try and even if in the end we do work out I know I hv no regrets. Also, whatever I went thru juz make me see things differently, more mature and more strong. So sometimes, lesson in life, will teach us something we will nv be able to learn if our life are too smooth.

Now, I am still happy, with my pair of kids.....my boy is a talkative 3 yrs old who at times say sweet things to melt our hearts and my 9 months old gal who is simply juz cute in all her actions...

so for my case, who can judge or say I was stupid and wrong to take him back? or say the gal was shameless? in fact, from my previous contact wif her, she is nt those shameless type of gal. Just someone, who dare to love....she have her principles and values too....but juz tat the heart took the ruling during that time. Nw she is happily ROM le....

 

[simpleman]

blueprincess,

Don't be so cocksure about things. Yes, we have principles and value systems and yes, we will hold on to them. But never say never.

Things will change. Circumstances will change. People will change. There are far too many variable in this modern world.

Like love. When a couple is in love - they pledge their love for eternity. They said their marriage vows.. Do you think for a moment they don't believe in what they were saying at the point in time? But still, people are still divorcing.

The people that I have met and are so cocksure about their value systems (and especially if they are not exposed) - are more likely than others to betray their own principles.

Nothing wrong with you value systems. But you have to get exposed more.. to test your value systems against the real world.

For Enxuan case, I think your thoughts are really not in tune with reality. Technically married yes, but this is because the divorce process will take a while. Once a couple has decided to separate - there should not be "binding". Is it wrong to date while in separation? Or every man has to be a monk during the years of separation? Get realistic..

Your disgust with affairs - actually I feel disgusted as well. Not with the affairs but with the way you stand on high moral grounds with value systems not tested.

 

[miloice]

Jenny, 1st of all, thanks for going back to discussion. It much better this way without the personal reactions!

"Don't over-rate love to such extend that you are already madly in love and can't pull yourself out of a relationship with a married man. If you can't handle such relationship, why can't let the head rule over heart?"

I agree about the over-rating of emotions by those in it. It is something manageable. Often, too blind to realize. But, I don't agree the need to pull out or give up the relationship simply because of his marital status. It is not the same as having an affair with someone that is continuing a marriage and lying to his spouse. We all know that's wrong.

To date someone that intends to move on and in the midst of separation and divorce, the situation is very different and understandable. The issue here isn't about affairs but the maturity and ability to manage the relationship vs one's expectation. I believe there isn't anyone in this forum that agrees with En Xuan on how she is treating her husband and his child. I do not agree that its improper or anyway indecent to date someone divorcing. They are not 3rd parties. It is just a more difficult relationship with more baggage and issues to be faced. En Xuan clearly cannot handle it. Something everyone has been telling her from the very start.

 

[jn1234]

sm
Glad we can finally talk.

I didn't say staying in loveless marriage is good for kids. I did stress head should rule over heart in one of my posts above :

"If love is so over-empowering that heart rules over head, why can some estranged couples choose the path of divorce? Do you mean that all divorced couples don't love each other? May not be so. Some really choose the path of divorce cos' they are rational. When you know there is really no other way out, so the most rational thing to do in estranged marriage is to divorce. No point dragging and make more people suffer. I believe SM is the same too. No one marry for the intention to divorce eventually. Most married for love. But when there are circumstances that result in the couple no longer able to be together, it is more rational to choose the divorce path. Eg when the wife loves her husband, but her husband does not love her anymore. Should the wife continue to wallow in sorrows because she is still deeply in love with her husband, or should she let go? "

So her husband's daughter is really the innocent victim, a victim not of her own choice, so why should she be condemned by En Xuan and her own father? Since they have chosen the path to be together, En Xuan should accept the fact that this path comes with this baggage and not condemn the baggage. It is really pitiful that a little girl should be let to struggle on her own by the person who brought her to this world and should have protected her. Whether En Xuan is obliged to play her role as the girl's mother is up to individual's choice, but at least she should not separate her father from her. I am not faulting En Xuan or her husband or her husband's ex-wife and I as an outsider, am also in no position to fault any of them. We are not them, we only hear from what En Xuan said in this forum, we will never understand what are all the problems between them. But at least we all agree she should be kind to the daughter. It is what she has chosen (even unwillingly) when she chooses to be with a married man.

Our responsibilities as parents to our children will never never end. Blood is thicker than any other things. The intention of my post is not to condemn any party but for people (whether involved in affairs or not) to look beyond love and ponder the possible consequences of entangling in love outside marriage, especially the impact on the kid. Read the article from the perspective of the impact on the kid in the article - some may really end up so extreme case. Am I even agreeing with the author that I am condemning the 3rd party? See things in more perspective, not only from the surface. But hor, I got attacked for condemning the 3rd party. Oh gosh!

If you have unknowingly fall in love with a married person, after you get to know it, is it better to re-assess whether to continue with the relationship. To err is human's nature, but it is your choice if you continue to err and you are solely responsible for it. In En Xuan's case, even when the ex-wife has already the intention to end the marriage, but En Xuan really can't seem to be able to handle the additional baggage. She refuses to accept the responsible of her choice, ie the daughter. Who knows, maybe if the wife keeps in contact with the husband (she would have to, unless she does not want to see her daughter at all), then what's next? Maybe En Xuan will become suspicious of them getting together again. Is she even mature enough to handle? Thru'out the whole saga, so many things happening, has she grown up with more maturity to handle things in a more matured way, or continue to insist on her way?

I am a staunch believer of "towards a gracious society". So I really can't stand sarcastic words and profanity in choice of words. Treat people the way you want them to treat you. If your spouse or kids have problems and seek your advice, surely you don't starting cursing and throwing sarcastic remarks at them, right? Thus I do not really concur the choice of words by some forummers.

 

[miloice]

I agree with Diana,

with head, we make rationale decisions. But, not always the best ones. We will overlook things and can never be sure of the future. There isn't one solution for all. As much as we mean well, its really up to the individual to figure it out.

Diana's sharing is exactly what I'm pointing out. Our values and morals are good, but its applications are never so straight forward. We do not throw away a marriage or relationship when we discovered its not as pure and perfect as we 1st pictured it.

 

[jn1234]

Diana
I said when faced with problems, should let head rules over heart. It is different from what you said head rules better than heart. Whether which rules better differs in individuals. Some are stronger in head and will think and make decision, but some just let the heart rules. In your case, your heart rules, so even if your husband has strayed, you chose to stay with him and as what you said "then suffer all those silly emotion roller coaster and took me yrs to really let go of the incident and move on". If you have listened to your head, will you suffer all those silly emotion roller coaster?

So it is really your will to let your heart rules or head rules.

 

[jn1234]

Milo
"I agree about the over-rating of emotions by those in it. It is something manageable." Finally we agree on something. Yes, yes, emotion and love are manageable if you are strong-willed enough. But those "madly in love" are just too blind by love to realise it. Bingo, finally you get what I was trying to say all this while.

Is boy-girl's love really so over-empowering that when faced with problems in the relationship, you cannot let the head rules? I only believe parental love is unbrokenable, and boy-girl's love is really a choice that you have to manage.

Yes, be responsible for your own action and don't blame on others for what happen to you. If you choose not to manage your emotion and love and always let the heart rules, who can you blame but yourself?

 

[jn1234]

sm
I like that "never say never". Should add one more "never say die".

 

[jn1234]

Diana
Your post on "It is easier to say if u r the on looker but if u r the one in the mess, things r nv tat clear coz it is ur own emotion involved. "

Er, I am also a "victim" of a mess caused by my husband leh. But I never let my heart rules. So it's your choice really.

 

[simpleman]

Jenny,

If you bothered to read my post.. I did not at any time quarrel with you. It is just your perception. My issue was with the article that you shared: The article is basically looking at 3rd party to be the evil party. To me that is lopsided and one-dimensional. If you want to share an article - be prepared to endorse it (like you did) and to defend it. Otherwise, when you share - just say that the article's view is not in line with yours.. Anyway, I am attacking the article not you but since you are the messenger of that article - you are dragged into it.

As for En Xuan. If you read carefully. We have been condemning her behaviour towards hb's daughter. She is just full of hatred. I don't condone her actions at all - especially towards the girl. But if you see carefully, the main culprit is the father itself. He allowed her daughters to be in such a situation. En xuan is culpable but not as much as the father. The father allowed himself to be controlled by En Xuan to the extent of causing undue harm on his daughter. For the poor daughter, the main culprit is the father not En Xuan. He is not able to even take care of his own daughter and allowed other people to "bully" her. And even cursed her!

I am not defending En Xuan. In fact, we have bashed her as hard as we could. She is just so full of hatred of hb's ex wife that it will extend to her daughter.

 

[jn1234]

sm
Yes, I agree En Xuan's husband should not allow himself to be manipulated by her. But this is En Xuan's thread and she posted her problems here. We can only post our views of what we think she should do. Even if we agree the husband got to do something to protect his own daughter, he is not in the forum so will not be able to be advised by us. So that's why the focus is on En Xuan to be more forgiving towards the daughter.

As for the article, I see more from the perspective of the impact on the kid. After reading the article, I felt so much for the kid in the article as well as En Xuan's step daughter. I was thinking that gosh, that's really an extreme impact that a breakdown in marrriage can have on a kid. But you cannot deny such extreme impact will not happen. I feel so much for the kid that I thought it would be nice to post to share - ie to consider the possible impact on the kid. Adults should be matured thru' life experiences to handle their problems, but the poor kids in estranged marriage are dragged into it even to the detriment of their own, eg revenge on the 3rd party, or have wayward behaviour.

Boy, I did not realise you guys see it differently as a third party bashing article. Aiyo, since when I condemn 3rd party in my thread or any of my posts?

 

[jn1234]

Read the article in more indepth. It is not only on the 3rd party being the evil party. It is also on what an estranged marriage can change an angel child into an evil. En Xuan's treatment of the her step daughter may turn a sweet angel into a demon, or in her view, the step daughter is already a demon.

 

[powder]

jenny,

is there such a thing as a soft approach? yes there is... many of u gals use it... sometimes u end up INDULGING each other in depression. for Years even.

is there such a thing as a hard approach? yes there is.. many of u girls use it when a 3rd-party/fallen husband posts... when u witch-hunt.

i just happen to be HARD when u guys are soft, and soft - when u guys are hard.

in TOW threads, i am softer than most of u. in depression threads, i am harder than most of u.

of cos, this does not apply to all posts. and in between, i have received Hundreds of PMs and maybe a thousand in email correspondences with at least a hundred pple in these last couple of years...

only a handful of pple complain abt my use of the language - they are the ones on the forum like u. and it's normally pple who dun see eye-to-eye with me, and frustrated at being unable to refute me - decide to just take the easy way out by pointing out and penalising my use of rough languages.

u - are doing exactly that.

if i use "fcuking" to emphasize my words, it is Not called a profanity, it is called an emphasis. If u see it as the profanity, u are basically stuck in the profanity itself.

u're the young monk who is transfixed on the old monk who carries the girl across the river (if u dun know the story, go find out). the old monk is only interested in carrying the girl across the river and that's That. but the young monk is so bothered and transfixed on the fact that the old monk had 'physical contact' with a girl... which was supposed to be a no-no as a monk.

take a good look at your marriage, children, parents, life, frens, spiritual enlightenment, relationships, citizenship, health and every stage and aspect of your life.... How strong are u in every aspect and are u Truly Happy?

if u are lopsided in some aspects, if u are lousy in some... how do u expect to give credible advice that pple can believe in? If i am at least 7/10, if not 8/10 in all my aspects... Do u think i should be bothered with u and what u have to say in this topic when u're hardly able to hit a 5?

i'm a very simple person... i learn from those who can teach, and share with those who need to learn.

u have Nothing to offer me which i have not already achieved. i dun need to fake humility and be a hypocrite when u try to teach me things in areas that i'm way better than u.

and i do not have time to talk to pple who think they know but live very poor lives... becos the reason they live poor lives is becos they think they know. but if they really know, then their lives won't be fcuked in the first place...

nothing is worse than dealing with ignorant person who think they know alot, but stay in little wells.

sorry, i simply have no time. dun mean to be rude, but when u reach my level, u can only afford this amount of time to explain to pple like yourself. Your dignity and pride, is none of my concern here.

 

[jn1234]

The author also share the following
"å­©å­æ°¸è¿œéƒ½æ˜¯æœ€æ— è¾œçš„.. "

No matter what happen between the adults, å­©å­æ°¸è¿œéƒ½æ˜¯æœ€æ— è¾œçš„..

 

[powder]

as for Blueprincess,

the above is half-meant for u too, especially the Ignorant part.

i'm not an old man, but i've lived every fcuking aspect that a person can live in his 30+yrs, perhaps a thousand times more than u.

u're in a well, i've travelled the seven seas 2 times over...

u dun tell me how the sea is, when u've only ever been in the well. u dun tell me abt how to Survive, when u've only ever needed to survive in a well, sheltered from the rough seas. u dun tell me abt sea creatures, when u've only seen rocks.

i'm telling u straight, something not many have told u before... u're a greenhorn, u're wet behind the ears, u've experienced fcuk-all and u're teaching pple here?

fine... but dun expect audiences to be wowed over.

u learn to get past the shadow of your mother before u even open your mouth to teach pple how to get past their more-varied life and shadows.

if i'm condescending, it's becos with u, i have absolutely no qualms that i can be.

 

[september]

jenny,

then again if i hv chosen to listen to my head, I might face another different set of sadness and emotion roller coaster too. Like I might regret and I might think, Y did I not try? and I will nt hv my lovely kids. I hv to face much worse off emotion, coz during tat time we hv ROM but preparing my customary. so meaning I will hv to handle relatives and frenz asking, why i nv send invites why cancellatin etc, which I know very well, tat I am unable to handle it. so, I choose something which I think I can handle better. It might juz take me a even longer time to recover and stand up. so it does mean, I dun need to go thru anything if I let my head rule rite?

when such things happens, there is nv a solution which is correct or painless de...all come with a price de.

good tat u can let ur head rule and still be happy and do not go thru any emotion struggle. But not everyone is the same as u. U can do it dont = I can. likewise, now I can look back with light heart and thus bear no grudges to all 3rd party eventhough I do not agree to what they do but u are still sour over it.

the different paths we take, teach us different lesson in life.

 

[jn1234]

powder
Fine. Continue the way you do, no one is stopping you and can stop you or is interested in stopping you. Talk the way you want to talk, be sure you talk the sure way to your wife and kids.

 

[jn1234]

Fine. Take it you are v v v experienced and all others are greenhorns to be advised by you. No one is denying that are v v v experienced, no need to keep stressing.

Can't imagine how many people can stand the way you talk. Anyway, not my problem, so I shut up.

 

[september]

Jenny,

actually for powder, his post at times might be harsh...but nt without a reason de. But if u see it with an open heart and see where he is coming from, then u will understand why his post is like tat.

In this world, there are so many different type of people and people will communicate using different approach. but if one see the point the other is trying point out and nt get upset or offend on how he deliver his point then there will be no misunderstanding and finger pointing le...

Juz my thots lah

 

[jn1234]

Diana
Whatever choice you make, nothing is going to be smooth-going. No one choice is perfect. But weigh both the pros and cons which come with each choice and stand by your choice and work towards the best possible outcome. If you have done your best, nothing to regret.

Just like don't ask the kid must get 100 marks in exam, just ask him/her to try her best. If he/she has done so, why bother if he/she gets <100 marks? A kid of my colleague cried over 99 marks, 1 mark short of perfect score. She has been so stressed by studying day and night, why does she have to stress herself over 1 mark short?

I did not say I am happy. Happy is momentous. One moment I can be happy but the next moment, when I see people swearing, it really dampens my day. But take one day as it goes. Enjoying the company of your kids, whatever happens. Children is the best gift you ever have. Treat each kid with kindness and you will be happy and blessed.

I ever said in my posts, ç»éªŒæ˜¯è·Œå€’åŽçš„å®å’›ã€‚ No one can claim full of experience (so far only one tries to do so). You have your experiences in life, I have my experiences in life and who is to claim he/she has experienced all in life? But what is more important is to remember the pain from your fall and strive to stand up straight and not to experience the same type of fall.

 

[jn1234]

Diana
Sorry I usually deal with more diplomatic people, so can't stand his choice of words.

 

[blueprincess]

Hi Milo, You are much more rational then Powder and you do have logic in wat you say. For the scenario u painted, I agree that if the spouse (let's take it as referring to the hubby) had abandoned the family the wife should not be left hanging and should be allowed to get into new r/s and move on. I apologise (and only to you, not to Powder) for not reading Enxuan's post in the correct context (I din read from the start. too many posts on this topic!). But I do hope she treats the young gal well. And, Enxuan should not have any hatred, cos what is past is past. Will hatred make her happy? It wun. I hope she lets go. The best she can do is to be a good step mother to this gal.

 

[september]

haha, Jenny, relax lah....

agreed with u tat no one hv experience all in life. like u and me, we experience 2 types of suffering and learn 2 different life lesson thru the same type of mess...

As long as we are happy most of the time tat is most impt de....

 

[blueprincess]

Hi Ariel, I know what you mean. For me, I have yet to experience the trials and tribulations of relationships tho I am 33 this year. But Ariel, I really hope to pull through this relationship journey (if I do get a bf) with all my values intact.

I know it can be tough, but I want to be able to do it. Pull through life w my integrity and values intact.

 

[september]

bp,

I doubt Enxuan will not be a good step mother as long as she continue to self pity herself and blame the ex wife. She is now not rational at all, and somehow, she gif me the feeling tat she is suffering from post natal blues lor...I just hope tat someone will protect the poor gal, be it the hb family or wat...

 

[jn1234]

Ya, those seeking advice in this forum is already in agony, don't add to their agony by unkind choice of words. That is my stand.

Can talk can discuss, but why must "suan" and use cursing words?

 

[blueprincess]

Thanks Jenny. Sarcasm is d last thing tt i need when i m feeling down.

 

[simpleman]

Yes, I agree En Xuan's husband should not allow himself to be manipulated by her. But this is En Xuan's thread and she posted her problems here. We can only post our views of what we think she should do. Even if we agree the husband got to do something to protect his own daughter, he is not in the forum so will not be able to be advised by us. So that's why the focus is on En Xuan to be more forgiving towards the daughter.

As for the article, I see more from the perspective of the impact on the kid. After reading the article, I felt so much for the kid in the article as well as En Xuan's step daughter. I was thinking that gosh, that's really an extreme impact that a breakdown in marrriage can have on a kid.

This is En Xuan's thread.. but she is long gone. So you are digging up her thread to advise her? OrtTo moralize? And moralizing, why not on the main culprit itself - that is her hb?

And if asking En Xuan's to be nicer towards the daughter.. yes, we have done that many times over. Asking her to let go of her hatred. So what is new here? Ok. go ahead and advise her. No one is stopping you even as En Xuan is not here.

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As for the article, I cut n paste what you posted. Highlighting the emphasis of the article. It is about the the hurt and damage of 3rd party on a family.

To be this is one-dimensional. How about the husband? Don't blame 3rd party and shift all the hurt and damage to the family on the 3rd party. And this is what the article is saying.

You want to see it from the children's view. Firstly, incidentally they are being hurt in the process. As you said, å­©å­æ°¸è¿œéƒ½æ˜¯æœ€æ— è¾œçš„. But again, who is the greatest culprit. The article emphasis is on 3rd party and shifting the blame onto the 3rd party. Wasn't the father of the children more to blame? So he didn't hurt the children and the family. If å­©å­æ°¸è¿œéƒ½æ˜¯æœ€æ— è¾œçš„, then the father definitely has to shoulder the majority of the blame - why put it on 3rd party?

His own blood and children.. and he was doing that to hurt them.. and why push the blame to 3rd party?

You shared the article. If you are not standing by the article - just tell me..

And talking about kids, I am wondering how much you know or think you know.

Yes, for sure children of divorce parents are sure to suffer. But how bad the impact - it depends on the parents who is taking care of them. They can become stronger than other children - if they can learn from the parent's break-up. And they still can be loved... It is not as if all children of divorced parents will become evil monster. Mostly, it is the parents themselves. They are bad parents to begin with.. divorcing only making then worse parents.

I said again. It is very possible for divorced parents to love their children more than when they are married. They can be better parents than when they are married.

So while you can feel for the children - the focus should be not to pity or feel.. But how best the children can be brought up when the parents are divorced. Well, I am not saying I am an expert but I think I am doing pretty well in this aspect. Took this opportunity to teach the children some values and it is for them to grow and be stronger. And most likely they will mature faster than other children (intact family) and most likely they will not take happiness for granted unlike other children that have the easy path all the way.

For every event that happen to us - be it divorce, death or whatever.. it is not life-ending. There are lessons to be learnt. And if we adopt the right attitude, we can be much better. Much better than feeling victimized (even for the children) and sorry for ourselves.

 

[jn1234]

powder
You really like to over-estimate yourself. How sure are you that you are 7/10 or 8/10 and I can't even match you? How sure you are that you only you give credible advice? How sure you are that your achievement is higher than mine? How sure you are that you are so experienced in life and all others are greenhorn? Wow, you really love yourself so much.真得很看得起自己。

You claim, "sorry, i simply have no time. dun mean to be rude, but when u reach my level, u can only afford this amount of time to explain to pple like yourself" Don't have time but can write so long?

The words show the level of intelligence and maturity of the author.

 

[jn1234]

sm
On 3rd party issue again? Aiyo.

 

[jn1234]

OK, so cannot comment on old posts in future? In the first place, I don't even realise it is old posts. 2 or 3 persons posted recently before me.

 

[jn1234]

Or from now on, we should start discussing about her husband?

 

[powder]

jenny, if u can't refute, then u can't. there's not way u can refute me becos u dun even respect yourself enough to know more in order to say more.

when u're only able to point out my language, and make childish comments like u dun know who who can stand me etc, and u tell me to go talk to my wife like that...

i wonder if u realise it's becos u have no way of saying anything credible.

1 minute u lump me, milo and sm together, and next minute u make it seem like a big thing that u and milo are in agreement.

how dumb can a person be?

some things pple agree, some they dun. dun agree - u dun like, can't stand. agree, suddenly u wanna hug and be best frens...

and u want pple to take u seriously.

there's no consistency in your character. u're ruled by emotions IN Reality... and u're saying pple should think with their head here...

u are a picture of inconsistencies and conflict. u display the u're 90% ruled by emotions, and u're telling pple they should rule with their head.

u talk abt the impact on the Kid (which is a popular stance to make everyone seem very full of love)... but u fail to love all humans involved, parents and 3rd parties included.

end of the day, u love yourself more than anything else... enough to be blind to your own inconsistency and utter lack of partiality.

and pls, i dun need your permission to carry on... i've earned that right long time ago.

 

[blueprincess]

Powder i dun like to b treated in a condescending way n u hav no right to behave in tt way to me. Dun b too arrogant.

 

[simpleman]

Jenny, Not on 3rd party again. But in your post you said the focus is not on 3rd party.. I am merely pointing back to the focus of the article that you shared.

And it is not that you cannot dig up old posts. But it would be just for discussion sake as the TS may not be around.

So for discussions sake, we should not exclude people just because they are not here... Just to be consistent.

And no.. not really to discuss about the husband. But in general, I have met many women who husband had affairs. Their focus and hatred is very much on the TOW (3rd party women) which I find it amazing because the greatest culprit of them all is their dear husband. They are willing to overlook all the bad thing about their hb but will curse the TOW to death.

And very rarely do they look at themselves as a part of the relationship. They have to take some responsibility as well. TOW, can we do anything to them? Yes, we can curse them. Warn them.. but can we stop them?

We can only work on our own relationship. And that should be the focus.

 

[powder]

"In the first place, I don't even realise it is old posts."
- summarizes u. dun bother to find out, just wanna talk talk talk.

dun question me on the comparisons - "How sure are you that you are 7/10 or 8/10 and I can't even match you?"
- the way u deal with these issues and u dish your advice will summarise how far u can go on various aspects.

"How sure you are that you are so experienced in life and all others are greenhorn?"
- i didn't say all others. i meant BP. and abit of u.

u are at such a low level... u do the 'drag others in for rally' way of arguing... u can never stand alone, u need to get pple to join u in order to argue... how far in life can u be?

 

[simpleman]

bp,

yes, powder's tone is not so nice but in reality, I think he just hit the harsh reality.

You are 33.. I suppose you have some education. But you get depressed when you have 2 bad lots about your future partner... which is really dumb to me. I didn't want to say much, knowing already you are very stressed by your mother.

And then here, you are trying to comment on something using your principle and/or value systems - but you have no experience to speak off. You can't handle your mother (not mocking you), you can't even handle 2 bad lots... and screaming for people to interpret for you over the weekend.. and yet you are telling people about complex love relationship - a little idealistic. Really my 20 yrs daughter is 10 times more matured and realistic than you.

so, yes, while powder may be harsh. You should really reflect on yourself. Why would he even tell you that you are a frog in a well.

 

[simpleman]

Why can't we "suan" and use sarcastic words?

If can't stand it.. then don't post. And don't read.

this is a public forum. You don't set the rules here.

 

[simpleman]

If people only want to hear "sayang" words then they should start the thread and said it in no uncertain ways.

But still you can't really be for sure that people will not say sarcastic words.

And really, if people take it so personally, they shouldn't be in public forum because it will spoil their day for them.

 

[powder]

BP,

"i dun like to b treated in a condescending way"
- that's not consistent with how u've been treated. but it's good that u're standing up to me... i hope u find this same strength everytime u are badly treated.

"n u hav no right to behave in tt way to me. Dun b too arrogant."
- u have no right to be treated this way, but i have every right to be an ass-hole. the world will not always be nice to u, so u should realise that u Should Not Expect to be treated nice all the time either, else u'll always be disappointed.

my job is done with u... i think u have found something new now.

all the best to u... pls rem to learn how to stand up for yourself. and pls start dating... dun let anyone bully u again. take action to change just 1 thing u do routinely everyday... just do Something Else, anything... u will see that something different will happen in your life...

from there, u will find motivation to change more and more little routines... and before u know it, in a few years from now, i believe u would have found what u wanted.

 

[miloice]

Jenny, I suggest that you leave it as it is and agree to disagree. You can continue if you want, just my suggestion.

to point out ...
"Can talk can discuss, but why must "suan" and use cursing words?"

You are pretty guilty of using sarcasm throughout your posts... to quote a few :

"blueprincess, you say such word as "disgust", you will open yourself to a lot of attack by those 3 regulars. You see you were being "suan" by one already. I have experienced that in another post. They can post their opinion even profanity but they start fiercely attacking others when others post something they dislike. See their attacking posts above, which I choose to ignore 3 of them from now on."

"Ok, I am wrong, my judgement is bad, so you all please come to the forum everyday to advise people ok? 有点此地无银三百两。

Pathetic people. Why you just want to win everything?"

There are numerous others. You are frankly far from being diplomatic at least in this thread.

If you want to talk on the points and not deviate, I'm glad to discuss. Not when we start to pick on the choice of words, harping on tone etc. Its getting no where liao.

 

[miloice]

BP, calm down lah.

You have across your message to powder that you requested to be spoken to with more respect. That's fine. I respect your firmness. But, you cannot expect everyone to respect your views. I don't agree with you either. However, I don't see how I can convince you otherwise. So, I suggest to agree to disagree and allow time to discover the answers ourselves. This is a forum, just as Jenny can go on.

Powder has his ways to bluntly and sharply point out. Its definitely harsh, very harsh. Is it getting anywhere? It is insulting and you don't take it. Ignore him then. Nevertheless, I do hope you get what he is driving at though. That would require you to apply the right filters to see the content than the personal.

If you don't, its okie. Take it easy yah? Its only a forum discussion. There will be all sorts of responses. There are haters that comes in every now and then to throw in a few personal insults. Can't stop him either.

 

[simpleman]

I think Milo last post had summed it well.

Jenny, don't you find yourself very inconsistent. And your perspective is always from your own vantage point. It will do you good if you re-read all our posts / your posts and reflect on it.

Sometimes, we are not very conscious of how we wrote. We got carried away at times.