And even Wendi Deng, you know her in person to be able to comment so much. Isn't it the same as Jiang Qing and the rest - you just read about them
The point I was making - these things that we read from newspapers or history.. they are the same.. we don't have first hand experience. So dismissing one against the other does not make sense in a general argument like this.
Erm i just finish this book not long ago...."The Happiness Project : Or, Why I Spent a Year Trying to Sing in the Morning, Clean My Closets, Fight Right, Read Aristotle, and Generally Have More Fun".....><"
I did not read this book b4 at all....i just came across this book by accident...and sort of decided to point out to all the ladies here to read it up....especially after i realize this forum is visited by a lot of women....><"
I am not rich.....=__________="...
*Struggling with povery.....><"
I am very sure i mention i am poor in one of the other post somewhere just yesterday.....why would i even hit on women from the internet, i am very sure that if i need a woman i do not have to resort to looking for someone on the net......let's not forget the fact that i am extremely anti marriage, so no one will even consider me.....><"
I agree that rich does not means rich forever and poor does not means poor forever...but if u do finds a man who really know how to handle his finance....the truly rich ones....will never progress from rich to poor....if u get wat i mean...><"
These are people whereby the only way their wealth can be destroys is thru gambling, so if they dun gamble...i doubt they can progress from rich to poor tat easily....><"
Yup i am recommending a book i haven read at all....i dun think there is anything wrong with tat...it is a choice i offer for ppl....moreover they can read the review on this book before deciding whether to read it...><"
Erm...actually i am quite satisfied at my lvl of poverty right now....i dun believes in reading watever character building, self-improvement books blah blah....
If u r a person with drive, motivation etc etc...u will succeed with or without thru the reading of such books....><"
I think recommending a book without reading it but probably have heard of it or read its review is ok as long as not espousing too much about what the book is saying but just indicating that such n such a book is available and what it is for...
There are many times in which books we want to read (because we have read its review or read its synopsis) but didn't get the chance yet and getting others to read it and tell us first hand is a good way to "know about the book" without reading it.
Self-improvement books are ok.. but they are just guidance. Some of them can be inspiring but they are just books. We still need to depend on ourselves to make things work. Mostly books are telling you things that you most probably know but in a more structured manner and given clarity to certain ideas.
But it is not a MUST-HAVE for one to succeed.
Powder, Well, people in "lesser position" with regards to career or whatever may not have the "clout" to advise.. but at times it is the idea and approach.. so depending on what they are talking I wouldn't immediately dismiss everything they say because they stay in HDB or just earning 5K a month.
Like for eg.. some of you may not have divorced before.. but that does not mean you cannot offer advice or at least well thought out views on the path leading to divorce - as long as it make sense, does it matter if we have experience it before. Of course real experience will add more credence to the opinions being shared.
But there is of course a bunch of people who knows nothing about the subject matter that they are talking and yet can give seemingly expert advice.. these we can see it clearly and should be able to dismiss them altogether.
Like people telling you when to buy/sell property when all they have was the original HDB that they have
Aiyah how i admire those who have at least a HDB to stay and can earn 5k a month....it is not easy sleeping on the park bench each day and earning $20 each day doing odd jobs...but then again...i hope my level of poverty wun stop others from listening to what i have to say in this forum...><"
i think divorce makes for a poor example becos it requires no Striving process to it, it is a decision, and pple who have broken up have as much to say as those who are divorcing... one is with paper, one is without. BUT process-wise, definitely whose who have gone thru, or know the process - would know better. a divorce is pretty much a breakup with Paper & paper complications, and perhaps require More in-depth handling if u have kids.
what i say would apply to certain aspects of life that requires a Want, a Strive, an Inner determination. and what i AM telling yesno is that this particular 'trait' of sharing without something more in-depth, would be a character Flaw he has to address, IF he so desires to grow wealth. it STARTS from the mindset.
in any case, i dun think he is as poor as he professes to be, but that's another story.
do note that i do not dismiss becos a person is Just Purely in a lesser position. But there are things u Must have done in order to offer credible advice. in this case, he is recommending context of a book he has not read... as an advice.
as much as i doubt u're as poor as u say u are... what i'm telling u has nothing to do with your poverty. it has Everything to do with u recommending things u have not tried or experienced.
a toyota salesman who has never driven a toyota. a vaccuum cleaner salesman who has never vaccuumed in his life. U dun have to be a great soccer player to watch ManU versus Liverpool, but if u wanna play in the game - u need more.
this statement is wrong and misleading - "i hope my level of poverty wun stop others from listening to what i have to say in this forum.."
- it suggests u're being discriminated against by me... when in actual fact, i am Addressing You on your state of 'poverty' whilst u are just hoping, wishing, admiring.
u can do more than that. and u start by not talking abt things u dun know... but abt things u know.
Powder, Not to side-track with examples as we will always have room for argument. Let's just talk about recommending books that we have not read.
In my opinion, I do not think we CANNOT recommend a book just because we have not read it. Some times we read a book review, references by other people - we may not have the time to read it yet but if what we know is relevant for certain people - I don't think it is that not credible to recommend reading that book.
i am pointing out The Act of recommending something that one has not experienced - as a very likely flaw that is Hindering His quest for wealth enrichment.
basically i sidetracked and pulled him aside to tell him that This should be something he should be looking to address. getting out of poverty requires Conviction and Belief... as much as getting towards a wealthier state... u Cannot have conviction without a deeper knowledge and understanding of things.
my focus was on creating an awareness on Conviction versus blatant 3rd party awareness... without having to spell it out.
Actually, what I learn in my failed marriage is not about how much we got to take revenge (at point of impulse no doubt it exist), why Woman's Charter protects woman (regardless the problem lies with woman) or even how much the other party hurts.
Ironically after writing on the 13th Feb post, the same day I received information that she is still seeing that guy and prove on that she has acknowledged him as her bf. There were love exchanges and even calls him "Darling". It is in human nature to hurt because once such words were between the two of us and now, it became someone else. It also made me angry that the lies were so bad, everything became unreal. No doubt, I feel this way because I still love, but that doesn't mean I need to force. Took me 2 days which was yesterday to succumb to the fact that I cannot change things from the other party so why not change myself first? It doesn't mean to be heartless, just means I got to let go and move on.
We both had a decent chat last night face to face and I told her, he is married and if he can do this to his wife, he could do that to you and you will get hurt. I told her that when I leave, you may treat me as a joke and continue a relationship with him, but I told her this as well, she always said that our failed marriage, those underlying problems lies with us, not the other party. I do agree, but fact doesn't change, she is still a marriage breaker.
She said to me, "what if tomorrow I change, how would you know?" I said for months and years, you had been trying to prove to me which ended up with more lies and more fooling around and I told her, it's time you stop proving to me, you got to prove this to yourself and similarly to me, instead of concentrating on how to make each other's life more difficult and painful, why not start our own priorities? Career, life and tranquility. Someone did tell me, go pursue your happiness which I think for now is a tad of BS. Happiness is not the first that comes but tranquility and healing is.
We ended the conversation with this, separation proper is inevitable but what happens tomorrow we never know. We should stop asking all the what ifs and predicting the future but to just carry on with life. I could have done a nasty divorce with all my evidence and file a suit against her (on my lawyer's confidence of 90% chance of winning). However, it just proves two things. I fight and prove that she is a liar, infidelity to the marriage for past 2 years and get that "guy" to Court, she fights and lose on this basis. In the end, who wins? Lawyer. Who lose? Myself for going through all these where I can just close the case and move on to start my new life, shame the hell out of that guy and he can also be prepared to file his own divorce and her (my wife's) own family will know the true her and she may lose her job because both of them are in the same company and the boss hates such affairs within company. I asked myself, is all these necessary to fulfill the anger and revenge? To some perhaps, to me it is pointless. There are better ways to spend the tens of thousands in lawyer fees and priorities on better things. Career for a start.
I cannot say she listens or not but I solely leave it to her. I did my dues to fulfill my vows and it is time I have moved on. No more checks, no more questionings and of course, no more fighting. I told her let's not force the wants on each other and just let nature take it's course and it's time we stop expecting things from each other. In time, I will feel better and I dare say, I am not regretting what I did and what I have decided because, I did what I could...
I must say I still have loads to learn. In dire situations I thought I could not be strong but when being strong is the only option, naturally I became stronger than I thought I could be.
In life there is no textbook way of managing love. It works for some, it doesn't for others. I learn to also approach thing simple. Second guessing doesn't help thus just approach things with a little optimism and be a realist.
This marriage or lesson became a milestone. The process that I went through made me a tad wiser. Until I apply it from now on, I cannot say I have been a better man until I achieved it. But that doesn't change the part of me, I am who I am and being faithful is not a duty, but morally it is how I answer to myself. I seen my own parents divorce due to infidelity, many friend's broken marriage as well and now mine. I know how it feels, I won't want to go through it again. Of course that doesn't mean it won't happen but least is, the underlying issues within myself have to start by own reflection. Change things that can be changed and not trying to change others where I had been trying to for years...
Hi torn guy,
Chanced upon your thread after two years of my own journey to avoid coming back back to sgbrides forum because my own story is still here (I think)..
I went through the same thing you described..except when it happened to me two years ago, iPhones weren't that developed yet..
The heart racing, the suspicions, the signs, the heart break.. Very familiar to me.. Doubly intense coz I was pregnant then.. So my younger son somewhat reminds me of the incident, and I feel guilty towards him til now because I wasn't in the right frame of mind to take care of him when he was still inside me, and attempted suicide a few times, too.
Things happen, we handle it, things pass and we are left with a memory. Stay strong and one day you'll look back on this and realise that this has created strengths in you that no one else can..
Purpose of my post is not really to offer advice, but wanna let u know that more ppl than u know or experiencing similar issues.. And that I totally emphasise with u..
Be someone you really want to be, not what others want u to be or what u think others want u to be. And when u find another who has accepted u for who u are, that's going to last.
Thanks for the encouraging words. My mind is clearer and I know what needs to be done. My heart and mind finally sync and I am moving on. I realised I have more things to concentrate on than to feel the way I did for the past few months. Yet, when you look back half way, kind of feel stupid on the things done and said...
Time to really do what is required and really time to put the past behind. I know there are many broken hearts man and woman out there. You just need to take my advise, you are not alone like some has mentioned and it is not the end of the world. Really, there are better things out there waiting for you to do, to appreciate and to accomplish.
Everything does happen for a reason and I am part of what has happened. It does take both to clap and acknowledging that you are part of the blame DOES NOT necessary make you a failure, it is just that you have not succeed. That said, for now we just need to make sure we learn from it and be wiser, stronger yet not changing the real us... Slowly but surely it has to move forward.
My story is not the end I am sure, but it is the start of a better beginning. My separation papers will be sent to her very soon and following which, I will look forward to my new life.
Thanks again guys!
P/s: I hope my story brings hope and faith to others from my first post to what I am currently feeling. Almost 6 months from going into 4 counselling sessions, feeling down, lost my job, lost myself, lost tangible and non tangible stuff along the way, it ain't worth it when I see it now but least is, I tried and did my best, I never regret, only sadness and disappointment. And most importantly, I don't have to be heartless to end it.
Be strong and there is nothing impossible. For a start, if you facing same problems, stop thinking about the past! God bless!
She has finally agreed to sign the separation and will be receiving her copy tomorrow.
If it is a walk in the park, I am lying. I admit, one of the hardest and one of the most emotional things in life that I have go through. It is not the last since divorce is not done yet, but it is a start of moving forward and closing one chapter of many which is the story of my life.
I believe one day in distant future when I read through the archive, I am sure I would feel stupid saying and doing some things in the first couple of months but it is only human, like a friend said to me... I do not deny I have done more harm than good over these 6 months and also reflected on the marriage as a whole, definitely I have a fair share of faults, blames and stupidity. But does it stop here or a learning curve? I think it's time I post this question to myself everyday so that I can learn what has become of me today is the many repercussion of my own act, responsibility and accountability to say, no man is perfect. Don't get me wrong, excuses are excuses thus what I do from now onwards shall define who I really want to be and how I am going to change myself...
Life is indeed unfair, but in the unfairness that is created by others, have we wondered, we are in control of fairness for ourselves. Like I said once, no one owes us happiness except ourselves. Time to have that mentality so that we can take baby steps to what we think is a dreadful path now could be a tranquil and happy future. I hope I can do it and no more expectation from others, but ourselves.
I am taking a proactive approach to seek guidance and help during my road to recovery. I admit and acknowledge that there are problems that I do not see on my own and I think it's time I approach a professional, could be spiritual. I have been to 4 counselling session previously with those Family Centres but I would think that it's time I find alternatives.
My aim to this is to learn how to completely let go of the past though not forgetting, to reflect on my own mistakes that I always say I know but yet at times, I am fighting myself. And also to learn to walk again, in a better perspective and hopefully, a better person as a whole to everything in life and not just love. I hope I am doing the right thing to get help early than late...
Do share if you have a good counsellor. Thanks in advance.
Anyway, I found a good Physcologist that provides psychotherapy and counseling. Sounds very mental but I think I need one now. Prevention is better than cure. Removing all stigma to go through this so I hope the road to recovery is easier... The rest is up to me.
I read a few old threads and someone said this before and I fully agree, "pain is inevitable but suffering is optional".
Will update again soon as my first session is tomorrow afternoon.
Did my first psychotherapy, yes... No stigma to this, I need help and I just got to get one.
What I learn is as follows:
- Be mindful of my emotions and rationalisation
- Understanding responsibility and accountability
What I took back from this session is that I should be mindful of my emotions and not runaway from it. I tend to emphasis emotions as negative, wrong or bad and rationalisation as right. Psychologist said, not necessary emotions are negative because they can be a positive as well. Rationalisation and being too logical when I am emotionally unstable may not be logical to me at that point in time because I may be fighting again struggling to be both logical and emotional, it will go back to square one.
We just have to be mindful when we are emotional or impulsive and that having such feeling is not wrong, I need to go through it and when we have oversight of the understanding that yes, it is right to feel down, hurt and anger, cry if I need to, feel hurt if required. After which we can then know that these feelings are controllable and not necessary to feel this way in the long run (to some, it's call time will heal all wounds and slowly bad memories will fade...) We also don't want to suppress too much emotions by pretending or avoiding it because it may back fire. After awhile, we may even feel that positive emotions becomes suppressed just like negative emotions and in short, positive or negative emotions, you end up numb to all feelings.
She mentioned, just remember, clinically bad emotions never last and prolong for a consistent period of time, it will be short span of burst in different time of the day, it comes and goes. When being mindful, we then realised that being down or hurt and sad is normal and the feeling will go away. In time to come, it becomes unnecessary and the mind will then be more logically incline to slowly block the wrong emotions and that's when time heals wounds similarly to mind heals itself like I explained in my prior paragraph.
If the above is a mouthful then take this, mindful is understanding that such emotions will exist... Take an oversight of the deep dive and don't engage or indulge them. Slowly the mind will accept these are not relative to me and will accept them to stop completely.
Last but not least, just to be clear, we not responsible for other peoples actions, feelings, reactions and etc. But we are responsible for creating the environment to allow it just like how I realised, I created an environment for my wife to lie, lie and continuing lying... But not crossing the boundary and putting a complete stop to all, this means I have essentially taken away this environment from her thus there is no opportunity to lie, at least towards me.
Either towards success or otherwise. Once I know I have done my best, I will have no regrets nor blame if it didn't turn out as well, nor am I to be egoistical when it is more than successful. It just is, because "I" said so and did so.
The separation papers are signed by both. I would like to say it is the end of one of many chapters and milestones in my life. I am acknowledging the imperfection in me that I have to change or rather, the impulsiveness that lead to a lot of neglect and taking things for granted. I know I am a jerk and could see better when the fighting and argument stopped. I need to stand in front of the mirror to say it to the guy standing there and admit it. That's call facing up to your own actions and consequences, cause and effect. Now, once I know the bad side of me which is the end result, I have to find what I want. Do I want to be a "nice" guy to everyone I know or be a good guy for myself? Nice guy tend to be full of words, promises and commitment without actions, in other words, nice is just a facade. For me, I reminded myself past couple of days to be a good guy for myself and even if no one sees it, I know and won't regret being good without a need for reciprocation. When one could completely achieve that, then it's a form of make up for yourself and you live a clear conscience with a bigger and unconditional heart in future.
My road of recovery is tough, it's a struggle and pain. Thru counselling, pshyotherapy understanding myself more, I hope the end result of me is a better person, the least is for myself, my family and my friends. With the chapter close and papers sign, I shall.... Forever hold my peace.