Unreasonable Dowry

[kayemoss]

MV, my hubby rented those traditional baskets for GDL from the cake shop that he ordered those traditional cakes from. Have to give a deposit of $100. The cake shop is at Hong Lim Complex.

Rosewhite, basically during the GDL, the bride & groom not supposed to meet each other. Yup, the SDJ will be given during the GDL. In fact, i din wear the SDJ on my actual day.

 

[rosewhite]

Hi cactus & kaye thx.. haha,the suckling pig will be very oily huh. so maybe not very nice to eat hor. The suckling shld be given on GDL rite? As read some gave on AD.

speaking of the baskets, i read from a forumer's list that the groom's side have to prepare 2 of them..1 is to bring the stuffs over to bride & the other is to contain the returning stuffs back to the groom.

okay..jia zhuang need not be in the form of jewellery. So is up to mom. Will let her know then, cos she ask me & I also dont know. btw, is it to be given during tea ceremony & not GDL right? mom say she need to know when to get ready all these things.. but dont know where to start & what to do.

 

[kayemoss]

Rosewhite, the suckling pig is given on AD, not on GDL.

For my GDL, they used the same basket. My Mum did put an angbao in each tier of the basket when she returned the stuff.

The min after GDL, the whole family went to pray to our ancestors. My family even distributed the cakes and invitation cards on the same day!

Btw, my GDL is one month before my AD!

 

[cactus_79]

My mom's giving me most of the jia zhuang on GDL day. Not sure if she'll be giving me anything during tea ceremony.

 

[rosewhite]

Hi kaye & cactus, thx for your replies.

Kaye, your family very organised, able to do so mant thingss on the same day

cactus, i see, so most of things are given on GDL. also good, if not AD will be very busy taking care of the jewelleries.

 

[kayemoss]

Rose, no problem!

Yup, my family is very organised in doing things... Unlike my in laws, very messy.... They dun even bothered abt sitting arrangement. And it was so messed up on our AD.....

 

[qing2]

dad request for 7 table as pin jin
24 can of pig legs
24 box of cakes
is it alot

 

[qing2]

pin jin mil will be giving $2888
nappy ang bao $288

 

[heat]

i feel it should be still okay for u... as for me it looks much worse..
My in law request
6 tables
$6000 for pin jin but won't return back any ang bao..
20 - 30 box of cakes
but the 6 tables ang bao we keep...

 

[heat]

and yah somemore plus si dian jin..
it really looks too much... my FIL are not easy... my colleague said she selling daughter..

 

[qing2]

but my seven table my parent hongbao are not returning

 

[heat]

hi qing...
hmm 7 tables around worth $6k...

 

[cactus_79]

Hi ladies, in my opinion, our parents' love for us cannot be measured in $, and their efforts at bringing us up also cannot be measured in $. So as far as possible, try to let them have what they ask for.No point comparing or asking if it is unreasonable...my 2 cent's worth.

 

[hapimint]

haiyah... same mar... my parents also request 5 to 6 tables, angbao no return and also over 20 boxes of cakes... and also pinjin.... ard 5k....
Some parents still live in the traditional times...
I had a friend, ask for 10k PJ, along with 10tables, no return of hong bao...

 

[heat]

dear cactus...
I understand your point.. i am on the guy's side.. sometimes quite a bit heart pain for my parents to give more than usual... even it is from me..oso a bit heartpain...

 

[cactus_79]

hi armando,

I understand that you feel sorry for your parents to give "more than usual", after all, they are old, and should be saving up towards their own retirement.

If you feel bad, maybe you can use your private savings to supplement what your parents are giving? Of course, don't let your wife or ILs know!

 

[cactus_79]

I feel where such things are concerned, it is better for us, the young ones, to sacrifice a bit. To make the older people happy/relieve their heavy burden.

 

[cactus_79]

It's really no point comparing.. and really, there's no "market value" to dowry .... it will only irritate us if we compare and compare and compare...

 

[hapimint]

yup... agreed... in fact... all the tables and PJ and cakes are paid for by me and my SO...
we are not taking a single sent from his parents... I dun understand why his parents need to bear the burden of our marriage....
However, my FMIL is going to give me a set of SDJ... that is all...

 

[heat]

yah for my case..i hope to pay first but donno why all expenses happened at the same time... house + renov + banquet + bridal package... so a bit tight... will try to chip as time comes near..

 

[kayemoss]

I agree with Cactus, no point comparing the dowry.

Most imptly, is to be frank with the parents... Let them know whether can afford or not. No doubt, we will deem such stuff as expensive etcc.. Dun forget, our parents esp the bride side will want as much as they can coz of face value...

And 99% of the time, the banquet is really abt face.

For me, my Mum requested alot of stuff but she is agreeable to installment plan when we told her that we got problem giving that much etccc..

 

[sparkless]

Hi,

I am just kaypoh-ing around here. Read some parents request over 20 boxes of cakes. Hmm... are the cakes going to distribute to the girl's relatives?

Then if the cake is supposed to be given to the girl's relative and I presume that cakes are given during GDL, so does that mean, immediately after GDL, the girl's parents plus the groom and the bride have to set off to distribute the cakes and wedding cards? Then does the guy's side need cake when personally send the wedding invites to his relatives?

 

[cactus_79]

hi twin fairy,

Yeah, the cakes are supposed to be distributed to the girl's relatives with the wedding invitation cards if tradition is to be followed.

Only the girl's parents need to send off the cakes and cards. The bride is optional. No need for the groom. It's not expected.

Guy's side no need to send cakes out at all. But usually, the gal's parents will "return" some boxes of cakes which the guy's parents send over.. so the guy's side will have some boxes. What happened in my case is my husband took those boxes (4 boxes), 2 boxes brought to his office, 2 boxes gave me to bring to my office. The rest were given to my relatives.

 

[rosewhite]

Hi,

just wanna check with you gals..pingjin normally have to be an auspicious amt right.. so is like the next jump for $388 will be $628 or $688 right? Cant have 488 or 588 isit?

thx

 

[sparkless]

Thanks Cactus for the explanation.

Hi Rosewhite,

I always think that auaspicious numbers derived by the way they sounded by various dialect groups. for eg. 168 will sound like "Yi lu Fai" in cantonese which mean " prosperous all the way"

Just my thought, might not be right.

 

[cactus_79]

hi rosewhite, I agree with twin fairy. Usually, if cantonese, then have "9" to end it, or very nice sounding numbers. other dialect groups, I feel,. place less importance to the sounding of numbrs.

 

[rosewhite]

Hi twin fairy & cactus, thx. Both families are not cantanese.. but wish to find out amt like 488, & 588 is consider inaupicious? Would pingjin normally have such numbers? cos i heard like in general, chinese do not like numbers the 4 & 5?

 

[graceyong]

ladies, my GDL discussion went last weekend and it was sooo weird. My hubby is indonesian and i am Malaysian. Gosh the things they ask and they things we ask is so different. So i suggest to those who are going through htis soon, make sure u get a list of ur dialect custom and cross check with ur hubby. then explain to ur own parents first or else when they meet, misunderstanding a lot !!!

i am a hakka, for us PJ is given to the girl side and the girl side parents either use it to host her side wedding party or give it to their daughter as JIA ZHUANG. However, his side see it differently. His side see it as they give u a figure, eg:888, the girl just take $8 and the rest give back the guy side

Wah... i tell u ... the night of discussion, both parties were shock as my parents were waiting to discuss PINJIN first but they didn't and talk all the other little things and my mom had to ask at the end, so how about the pINjin, and they were shocked, why need to ask as it is not important as what they give is what will go back to them.... sian....

Piece of advise, couples out there, do the homework first and don't ASSUME that ur parents would know the other parties custom!!

 

[sparkless]

Hi Rosewhite

What dialect group are you looking into?

 

[rosewhite]

hi twin fairy, is hokkien.

 

[cactus_79]

hi rosewhite, I'm hokkien too! I'm not sure about hokkiens specifically, but to be on safe side, don't give 4 or 5. Cos even if our dads are hokkiens, our moms may be of a different dialect group. Worse still, later our grandparents/ nosy relatives different dialect group. Cannot please all, so best is to avoid. Stick to 1, 6, 8, 9. Think these are good. 2 and 3 also sometimes.

for ex, 3288 means business is good.

 

[rosewhite]

Hi cactus..thx. Ya.. we are also thinking to best stick with auspicious number. Only thing is that the next jump after 388 or 3888 will be like 628 or 6288..wah, quite a jump hor especially for the 4 digits one. wander is there any other solutions?

 

[cactus_79]

hi rosewhite, if there can be an understanding that your parents take a certain amount from pinjing, it doesn't matter how much your ILs give. Example, if your parents expect say $200, then whether you give $388 or $628 doesn't matter cos $188 or $428 will be returned.

But note, sometimes gal's parents will want to return an equally auspicious number...

 

[rosewhite]

Hi cactus.. ya that's true. Actually was thinking of the same thing, since bride's side would normally return quite alot back, it should be okay to give abit more. But when my friend got married last yr, her hubby's family was not too pleased as her hubby gave abit more pingjin.. the groom's parents think just "ýi si yi si" can already. But as long as the bride's side return back.. it wont show as if the bride's side greedy or what right. Dont know y my friend's inlaw mind too as is her hubby who is paying.

 

[cactus_79]

Hm.... I think sometimes if the guy's parents don't think the bride is "worth so much", they will not like too much pinjing given... cos the bride's family can tell their friends and relatives that the groom's parents gave a very "large" pinjing and the guy's parents may not think the bride is worth that amount. It is more than just $ issue.

 

[rosewhite]

Hi cactus..
that's true.. sometimes, these wedding stuffs really involved more than just the 2 couples & their parents. Their relatives would somehow add in some comments & spread around. Especially if both side parents & relatives are not those undestanding type.

 

[gregina]

Hi All

Looking at previous posts of pin jings etc...plus cactus's advice of not comparing...I still find it hard not to detest my mum. sigh...as much as I respect her, I am still having difficulties trying to get over her PJ's request.

Her list:
20 boxes of Teochew sweets (my hubby's a Teochew)
60 boxes of cakes (give relatives, HER friends, HER colleagues)
1 roasted pig (MUST be at least 15 kg)
12 tables (no indication that she'll give back, btw 1 table is $850)
any amt of PJ

My hubby mentioned that MIL was saying it is unreasonable....but during the PJ session, she didn't protest. sigh...so for the past 1-2 mths, we argue over this issue...mainly coz my hubby side really not much savings. My FIL's business collapsed few years back, so whatever $$ left went into repaying creditors. My MIL has stopped working for a year, had minor op for kidney problems.

so most of the time, I'm like stuck in the middle. I dunno whether to defend my mum or to comfort my hubby

We argued quite badly last night...to the extent that I blew up and said, "I tell you what, whatever amt you are lacking, I will fork up the money." And so, I bruised my hubby's ego. shrug.

What else can I do?? We only have a total of 28 tables (including 2 VIP tables). Of which, my mum is asking for almost half....my hubby's side will only take up like 5 tables. The rest will go to our colleagues and friends. So is my mother selling her daughter?? Sigh....I'm lost. I can't really confide in friends, all are single. At this rate, I think I might just cancel the entire affair.....my work is already stressful enough. I don't need another one to torture me further.

 

[cactus_79]

Hi Pei Lin,

Would it help if you and your hb don't get involved? If your ILs find it hard to come up with the $, why not be frank with your parents? A marriage is very precious and all these negotiations should not involve you or your husband. It will only stress both of you up.

Another way is perhaps instead of you paying the $ for the traditional stuff, will your hb accept it if you give your ILs a big AP during the wedding? Let this AP cover the cost of what your parents want? Of course, don't tell your ILs the purpose of the AP... just tell your hb you want to be a filial DIL and show some appreciation to his parents for accepting you as a DIL by giving and accepting the AP. In some dialect groups, the DIL act7ually gives shoes to ILs.. or gives clothes to ILs.. I'm a hokkien and I will be giving shoes to my ILs. I spent about $300 on both pairs of shoes (brought ILs shoe shopping recently). Some brides give ILs a AP, and behind write "shoes". Perhaps you can find out if there is any tradition in your family to buy anything for your ILs?

Or, you can give your ILs a big AP on their birthday. On their next birthday. Just tell them it is the last AP you will be giving them as a future DIL... so it'll be a big one.

In future years, perhaps you can cook a meal for them or bring them out for a birthday meal instead of giving them a AP.

 

[cactus_79]

Pei Lin, remmeber that you are not responsible for what your parents are asking for in a wedding. Your role in a wedding is just to be a good daughter, wife and a daughter-in-law. All these cultural norms.. let our parents deal with them. If your ILs cannot afford and your hb doesn't want you to pay for it so obviously, there are other ways to get around it.

 

[gregina]

cactus, my parents way of dealing with ppl is to demand. my MIL is not those domineering kind...so, I'll have a hard time next time coz I'll be living with my MIL (hubby's only son).

what kind of other ways to get around it? everything seems so bleak now. I'm like 2 mths away from my AD....and I dun feel like doing any preparation.

 

[gregina]

cactus, need to do a correction....the $$ will mainly be coming from my hubby's pocket. my PIL is basically broke. My MIL's savings mostly went to my SIL to repay some debts....

my family is expecting my hubby to be able to afford it coz he's older than me by 8 years (but he only started work 2 years earlier than me). I can't really tell the truth to my family, coz it'll only worsen the entire situation.

Hubby's already saying my family trying to make him feel small...making everything difficult for him, double standard etc etc. If I tell the truth, mum will be upset, granny will make us see no peace, dad will give my hubby more cold looks. sigh. I can't even slip some $$ to MIL, coz hubby knows exactly how much savings she have. I dun even think MIL will want to accept.

 

[cactus_79]

Hmm... how does your hb feel about things? Do you know what he plans to do?You mentioned his ego is bruised, and he doesn't want to accept $ from you to pay for the things your parents are asking for.

perhaps you can try understand from your hb -
Does he resent giving your parents what they are asking for?
Or does he resent taking $ from you to pay for the things your parents are asking for?

If it is the latter, then I think it is easier for you to handle. Instead of giving your hb $, you can consider paying more for say the housing, the bridal package, the honeymoon (things which are okay for the bride to pay for). This will lighten your hb's financial burden and enable him to have more $ to pay for the things your parents want.

 

[cactus_79]

It's a good things your MIL is not the domineering type. I don't know why you say it will be hard for you to live with your MIL in the future.

 

[cactus_79]

Even the bleakest moments have a silver lining.

Let me share with you that I may lose my job in the coming months and would lose out on my year end bonus. Last year, my bonus was over $20k... Anyway... the good thing is I'd have more time to prepare for my wedding, enjoy my honeymoon, and buy a HDB flat! Without my job, hb and my combined income would fall under $8k and we'd be able to apply for a new flat. We've not bought our home yet and were planning to stay with parents.

So whilst some people will say it's bad luck that I may lose my job when I'm just abt to get married, I see the positive side of things.

If it's not possible to change things, (ie. keep my job or for you to change your parent's mind about their demands), then what we can only do is to change our plans, and make the best out of things.

 

[decent_gal]

Hi Peilin, I understand how you are feeling rite now over your mum's request of the PJ coz I also experience before. My mum request over the PJ very demanding as well..My ROM is in 2002 and my wedding din will only held this year nov due to my mum's demanding request as I am the only child...my husband also fail in his business and thats y our wedding cannot be so grand...in the end due to my mum unreasonable request we plan to get our house first...after dragging for about 5 yrs..my mum PJ also depreciated and thats y now my hubby and I are planning for our budgeting wedding happily...

Peilin I will give you my fullest morale support...rememeber this saying "shang tian bu fu ku xin ren"

God Bless

 

[rosewhite]

Hi Pei Lin,

I understand how you feel, it is very stressful & your situation makes you worry. Try to think of the things that are going smoothly in your wedding preparations.. Find some ways to distress if possible.

Hi cactus.. is good that you are so calm, optimistic & positive..that is very admirable.

Hi Katherine.. all the best for your wedding, you hubby & you came a long way for the AD.

 

[cactus_79]

hi rosewhite,

nothing to admire about. it's more like I'm getting no where trying to change things or change how people feel about things. So the easier way out is to change myself, the things I do and my attitude.

 

[monkie]

yap..catus way of doing is very positive..
making the best out of the worst.

like the 10/90 rule.
10% of it, we have no control. but we can control 90% of it with our reactions.

when u have $, save it for rainny days. i am sure catus will have enough till her wedding and after that with her capabilities can get a job very fast.

 

[cactus_79]

THanks for your encouragement, Cynthia.
I'm just focusing on getting over and done with the wedding and the honeymoon. Then look at housing. I'm not sure if I want to go back to my old job. I will probably be a housewife for a while. Look after my husband, then find a job which allows me to look after my husband too.

Maybe flexi working or something. Be home to cook dinners for him on weekdays and do fun things with him on weekends to help him destress.

 

[monkie]

catus ah...
sometimes i think its good to stop and think of what we really want in life.

after working for so many years can make me lost focus also especially i am forever fighting for time for the past few years.

i am now working in a lay back environment but it gives me lots of time to prepare my wedding, commit in volunteer work, play the role of good daughter and daughter in law.. my pay is peanuts but still enough for surival..i am contented.