Seeking opinions from ladies

Nemo, i would think so. It's very sad.

The other day, although i made plans to go swimming alone, i decided to drag her along. I wanted to experience the joy of doing something as simple as going for a swim together with her before we don't have the chance to do so anymore. We had a good time, commenting on each other's strokes, chatting about stuff in general, and laughing at other people's strokes. After the swim, we had some salmon sashimi and endamame, washed down with Japanese beer. For the short 2 hours, i can tell that she is really happy; we were transported back to our happier times together.

These are the simple things in life. It felt real, and we were happy. I asked her isn't this what matters? We were whisked back to the reality, and she still has no answers for me.

I told her that i'm "siao" already e.g. she hinted me to buy the E71 phone for her. I told her that i can do that, but i don't want to cos she'll spend the $ she saved on the other man. I even asked her to get him to buy it for her instead. This kind of things hurt me, but i could just say it to her, like having a normal conversation. I'm also confused by my emotions.

Our conversations regarding her affair have also degenerated into something like: "Are you going to stop betraying me today? Yes or No"...no answers, "Yes or No?"...no answers...I got the drift, but i pushed on, then i get "I don't know". Yet, i somehow can treat her very nicely (most of the times), and she can somehow still kiss me and tell me she loves me. I asked her how she can manage to do that..."I don't know".
 


losingher,

I find that you are losing yourself more in this. My advice is still the same. Walk away from her and maybe you can get her back. By still sticking around, it would only prolong your agony.

Let go of something we have no control could be the best hope of getting it back again. And in the mean time, you can find your own self.

What is the use of this swimming and time together.. after all the question is still there - not answered or cannot be answered.

If you walk away, you would force her to make a decision. But you can stay and still be nice to her if you have the emotional strength and energy to carry on.
 
losingher: your actions is causing more pain and might eventually ruining the feelings and good times that you had shared with her. In a r/s, it is dangerous to turn the love into revengful feelings and it is not healthy as you might end up hurting her and yourself. Give yourself some time to walking a further distance.
 
losingher,

You have to ask yourself how much longer do you think you can withstand such a life with her.

By allowing this to go on, you are telling her that it is ALRIGHT to betray you!

Are you trying to show her that you r a bigger man than she expected? If you are, do know that it is not making any difference to her right now, so stop fooling yourself.

If not, you should really walk away from her. Actions speak louder than words. Let her realise that it is possible for you to choose to leave her, that she does not have that choice in regard to your life. Only in that way would she be able to come to light about the matter and make up her mind about who she wants.
 
I'm not my normal self these few days after i broke the news to my boss (who has been very supportive), and took some actions to find gather information so that i can make a decision how to move forward.

I'm not proving to anyone anything. Those questions were asked...i guess out of resignation. The emotions are complex, and i also can't pinpoint or describe it.

littlewoman, there's some danger of that, cos i feel really angry with her at times. Thks for the word of caution, i wouldn't want that either.
 
losingher: the extreme end of deep love is hatred; and seriously, we will tend to channel our feelings strongly from one to the other easily. The best thing in life is to learning how to let go, learning how to forget and forgive. Hatred will reminds you and making you feeling angry and upset over your life, everything etc, life is short, try cherishing youself and treasuring those who is concerned about you..
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The lies continue; she is doing her very best to cover them up to make sure that she would not be caught. It's like a drug addiction she is ashamed of, but yet, she just couldn't pull herself out of the situation. It hurts me to see her like that, and yet there's nothing i can do about it.

For the past few weeks, i desperately sought answers as i fought to prevent something so wonderful between us from being taken away. I watched movies, read books, forums, asked questions, all to no avail.

In the end, i realised what many of you suggested all along may be the final answer - which is to walk away. I read "Love must be tough" yesterday, and it helped me understand what i must do. It's something that, perhaps, many of you already knew, but I needed to arrive at this conclusion on my own terms. I have to fight my own demons before i can walk away and let go with love in my heart.
 
losingher: there is no way that you can deny that you still love her a lot till a certain extent. But love is never a possession and it realli takes 2 hands to work it out. I am sure there is still love on her side as well, but what matters most is what is her ultimate decision? There is no way that she can carry on behaving in this way, she will not secure both but ended up losing everything and being more in pain instead. It is never an easy thing to walk away frm someone we love, the wonderful memories that we once/used to have, but someone has to take the 1st step to either holdidng on / letting go of it.
 
losingher: I think you have really lost her. Lost her heart, soul and mind.. Even if she were to wholeheartedly come back to you now, it's difficult for you to accept and trust her back completely. Maybe it's time you should really consider letting go .. Your case can be easy and neat, no kids involved ..
 
losingher, you are still in the state of self-denial. You know what you must do, yet you still want to give her chance after chance.

You must realise that only when you learn to face the truth then would the matter be resolve. If not you will only live in constant agony.

It hurts you to see her like that, but you must know for a fact that she chose to get hurt. It's her choice. You are but a by-stander so there is nothing that you can do. Learn to respect her decision ba.

Similarly, we are by-standers to your problem. You chose to get hurt over and over again and there is nothing we can do abt it. Both of you are not gg anywhere at the current state that you are in. Your marriage is not moving fwd, just stagnate.

If this is your choice, stop crying over it and know that this is how it's gonna be until a miracle happen.

But do know also that if she ever changes her mind and come back to you, chances are she did not do it because she still loves you but that you are the only one whom she can hold onto.
 
It'll be easy if she made a decision. I'm not exactly holding on to her, begging her to stay.

I've asked her to choose, but she chose to keep quiet. It can get quite exasperating because i don't know what's on her mind. Why does it have to be so complicated? still want stay, don't want leave. I've made it very clear to her, but she can only look at me, like she's very hurt.

Anyway, i've already decided what i need to do. That doesn't mean i can immediately stop loving her, or stop feeling the pain. It takes time i suppose.
 
losingher, love manifest in many ways. You can still love her in another way. Letting her go at this moment doesn't mean you don't love her. It means to allow her to seek out her own path and out of the mess that she has created for herself.

Sometimes things happen so fast that it seems really complicated, but in fact it takes one to step out of the situation then everything becomes simpler.

Your pain will go. Trust time. There's no guarantees in what will happen in future, then why not do something now for yourself to relieve your current pain.

You can de.
 
"It'll be easy if she made a decision. I'm not exactly holding on to her, begging her to stay."

Making a decision is never easy. It takes so much 勇气 in a person.

But both of you will be caught in this cycle if none is made.

It's still your call.
 
losingher: you have a right to make a choice too.. What do you want? This is also a question u have to have a clear and firm ans to.
 
losingher: I think she's waiting for you to make a decision .. she's in a dilemma too .. Both of you are waiting for each other to make the decision ..
 
She can't make up her mind.. thus no decision is made afterall... From what I assume, she could be loving both and thus, she refuses or dunno what decision she has to make.
 
i think the other guy is unstable ('unstable' in the sense that he already has an official girlfriend and TS' wife is merely the 3rd party), that's why TS' wife doesn't dare to make a decision to dump TS. If she make a decision to dump TS and subsequently can't be together with the guy, then she will be ended up regreting and hating herself for making the decision. BUT if TS is the one making the decision, then at least she won't blame herself so much..
 
If I'm TS's wife, I would be thinking:

Why would I want to make any decisions? Whether or not I'm still in love w my husband, I've got nothing to lose by floating around. In fact, I can meet and think of my bf "openly" and my husband can accept that! If my bf hurts me, my husband is still here to comfort me! Plus, I dun have to worry about accommodation, money, food, gossips..., cuz I'm still married to my husband! Since there are more pros to cons, why make any decisions at all!
 
stay or leave - her physical presence is not a factor anymore.

despite TS's attempts to salvage it since August, she has actually made her decision as far back liao...

like i said earlier, it's the actions that are making her stay... doesn't mean that she has not decided - emotionally.
 
not wanting to work on the marriage is staying on the fence and is in a 'don know what to do' state of mind .. and it the easiest thing to do .. i personally feel that a decision should be decisive and specific, with added proactiveness in carrying out the decision.
 
I think PinkTweet's opinions is reasonable and by staying with both, she wun have to face the dire consequences of the pain in making any choice to choosing either one of them..
 
Exact sentiments..

I was thinking to myself about your problem this morning.. Assuming I am thinking like your wife..
"Why do I have to make a decision if my husband can pretend nothing had happen and lead a normal life with me, willing to forgive me, gives me much more attention than before and is "desperate" for me?"
It certainly feels good I tell you..

Can you think of a good reason why should she make the decision and ruin the "perfect" relationship with 2 men and lose the chance of being loved and enjoying the best? Anyway by not making the decision, she still enjoy your fullest attention right? Better than making a decision to be with you and take the risk of you going back to your usual self(as you claim by not showing her more attention).

I know its hard.. Really.. Who hasn't gone thru a break up before? We all know its not easy but we are humans too.. Do we want to be looked down, laughed at, humilated with when you can proudly look up, get away and say.. fine.. its all over and im getting on with my life..

Can you imagine what she is telling her boyfriend? Im not too sure, but what if its things like "haha.. he is now treating me like a queen at home, bla bla bla, as if I care.. bla bla bla..but i still love you.. bla bla bla" Where have all your pride done to?

You can mend your broken heart, but your pride and your dignity might be gone forever..

We mean well.. All the best to you
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Just kick her awyay..y bother with someone who dosen't get the priorities right in their life ?? if she ever get dumped by the other guy, serve her right..this is what i called retribution.
 
Noone is perfect and doesn't make mistakes in life.. it is a fact that the mistake had been done, hence, everyone mus move forward in order to minimise the pain..
 
correct..no one is perfect,They have a choice, either to mend it or break it. but some pple still wish to screw up again and again. Chances are given again and again and so be it. so TS, get her out of your life. it's wasting your time. do something worthwhile.
 
I think TS might be thinking that by staying right where he is, he might get her back some day. That it doesn't matter how much it hurts him, so long as she comes back it's all that matters.

You could and she may return, but is it really worth it?

I've tried that once, gave him abt 3 months, then I moved on. It's not easy, but it's the only sane thing to do.

If she really loves you, she would not be doing this to you cuz loving someone is not by causing hurt.
 
I delivered the ultimatum 2 days ago. I've told her that she can choose the marriage, and we can talk about the specific steps to rebuild the relationship, or if she chose to move out, we can talk about divorce. She chose the marriage. But after all we've been through, i learned to take what she said at face value.

True enough, today, she said she want to go view flats. She said that although she wanted the marriage, she cannot deal with all the external factors, and that she did not have faith that everything will be back to normal. Till today, she is still angry and full of pride. She is blaming everyone else for making things difficult for her.

For me, it's not a matter of wanting her back at all costs. I want a happy marriage and for that, both parties have to want it. I just don't want a bad decision that cause us regrets in the future. After 2 months, i think i've done most of what's humanly possible for me to do.

I believe that marriage is a commitment, and a choice to love the person we marry, and not marry the person we love. I'm committed, but i can't see the same commitment in her. She decide one moment that she wanted the marriage, but the next, she is giving thousand and one excuses why it's so difficult for her. I've pointed out to her that it's difficult because of the choices she made and her actions...but somehow, she cannot seem to see my point of view. I really cannot fathom her self-destructive behavior. I really wondered if all these were just excuses, so that she can feel better about what she is doing.

I'm so freaking tired and exhausted from all these. I think she feels the same. Either way, i sense that the end is near.
 
Our life mistakes can often feel like a waterfall. They can flow in abundance and make our life feel like things are crashing down all at once. Just like the waterfall – it’s at the bottom / end of our mistake...s where things have the greatest impact. At the end is the point where we can learn from the experience to better prepare ourselves for the calm flow ahead.
 
Our life mistakes can often feel like a waterfall. They can flow in abundance and make our life feel like things are crashing down all at once. Just like the waterfall – it’s at the bottom / end of our mistake...s where things have the greatest impact. At the end is the point where we can learn from the experience to better prepare ourselves for the calm flow ahead.
 
losingher: In a way, a decision had been made.. Follow through the heart, everything could be done with determination and of course joint efforts. You have tried everything and the ball is really in her hands now. It isn't a good feeling to keep waiting but give the marriage one last chance so as you won't be living in regrets for any consequences that comes along with the ultimate decision. Not that she can't see your point of view but more on the fact whereby she simply can't get out of her own "dreamy" world and to face the reality whereby a choice has to be made now. You are tired from all the trying, time to take a step back and let your wife making the efforts now.
 
littlewoman, why should losingher be living in regrets when it's his wife who's yielding to temptation? And isn't it obvious that his wife is not making any effort?

The ball is not only in her court, it's in his as well since he can always opt to end the marriage anytime.
 
breaKingfRee: TS still loves his wife, and thus, giving chances and chances... Yes, it is true that his wife isn't treasuring the chances till now in one way or another, after TS lays the last straw. Wat I mean is: Don't act on impulsiveness, only with calm mind and rational thoughts will enable us to make a decision, the one that we want and also the one we won't regret eventually. There are consequences following through either a patching up or divorce, it isn't so much about the assets etc, but more on the mentality to face it, the reality and the inner feelings. People might be saying that TS shld have let go long ago etc, but the ultimate decision lies with him, as he is the one who have to handle his feelings, emotions in the later part that comes along... We won't step into a marriage unless we realli love the person, we can't say that his wife doesn't love him, this is only our assumptions based on the fact that she strayed and made the mistake.. Noone except both parties know how each other feels.
 
littlewoman, yes there are consequences to any decisions made. I just think that these consequences should be considered by TS's wife instead. I mean, she's the one who has gone off track, TS is ready to accept her back, and she is "giving thousand and one excuses why it's so difficult for her". Come on la, we all know that if we really want to get back on track when we have wandered off by ourselves, we shouldn't be expecting him to be understanding. Instead we should "make-up" to him for all the agony he has to go thru instead. Fact that she is still expecting his understanding shows alot about her character.

We all know that TS has to think things through b4 making any major decision. But frankly speaking, if you r in his shoes, do you can think with that calm a mind and that rational a thought? I think his mind will just be blank and continuously thinking "what did I do wrong?".

The most important thing is that TS is not staying in the marriage for the sake of staying in one, that he has consider through if he can accept that:
1) he cannot bring this up again
2) things will no longer be the same as b4
3) she might still habour feelings for that guy despite her choosing the marriage (cuz from what TS described, she might have chosen the marriage unwilling)
4) he might just be the spare tire, etc..

And of course, the trust issue: whether he can trust her again.

If he can overcome all these, then would he be able to stay on.
 
breaKingfRee: I can understand where you are coming from and of course understand how you feel about TS's wife. In my eyes, there is no right or wrong when it comes to love, I term it as legal/illegial and if it is rational/irrational. It is wrong for her to stray upon being married to someone who is so nice, but we dun decide love based on rationality. It is a fact that a mistake had been done, hurt had been caused to both parties. I am not too sure / can't say for sure that she feel bad not to turn back but I will take it as she doesn't feel good to have hurt TS as well during the process. The initial guilty feeling might have been overcome by her incapability to leaving the 3rd party eventually. TS is not feeling good with having all the suspicions going up in his mind, this is for sure, but the basic thing is people stray coz they found in another person what they can't find in their current partners, not a matter what mistakes their partners have made. It is not easy for TS to do all those you have mentioned, that's why joint efforts is required to make the marriage work again if the eventual decision is to stay in the marriage. Of course, she has to do something to show her sincereity and determination, which I hope she is now since she has told TS that she chooses the marriage..
 
Is "love" being taken out of the context here? I thought if you love someone, you should do what's best for that someone and not continuously causing hurt to that same someone? In this case, do u think that she loves herself more?

I wanna say that whatever I feel about his wife is purely on what TS has stated here. Like you'd said, we dunno her. I know what she might be thinking and going through if I'm in her shoes, but I do not hurt someone if my heart is not in the r/s. I'll let go and I had. Whether or not she feels good in the process is not the point. No matter how incapable she is of making any decision at that point of time, she should not cause hurt to the one who loves her. This is selfish. I'd rather she tell TS that she need some time alone to sort thru her thoughts than to tell him that she wants the marriage yet keep thinking of the other guy. Difficult or not, I think that's her problem, not TS's.

I agree that joint effort is necessary to make a marriage work, but the above few thots that I've mentioned does not really really require that. I've always believe that the mind is very powerful, we just have to set our mind (rationality) over our body (emotions).

Btw, I hope that this is not reminding you of how you'd felt previously.
 
doll, ha ha you have problem with comprehension? just joking.

I understand what she is saying and I agree mostly with her.

One of the things that we have to realize about people who strayed.. is that the hurt spouse cannot be feeling victimize and ask the question: what did I do wrong.

Strangely it is the hurt party that has to work harder to convince the betrayed party that they have to work hard for the marriage. And strangely the hurt party has to work doubly hard.

This is not fair. Nothing is fair. But this is the reality of things. The hurt party, TS in this instance may feel that he has not done anything wrong and his wife should "make up to him" but in reality the wife - just having decided to come back to the marriage will need a lot of encouragement. Encouragement as in for TS to fill her emotional void as when she left her lover. If TS ultimate aim is to make-up with the wife, he has no choice but to work super and doubly hard. At times, he will feel unfair.. why his wife is like that. But it all depends on what he wants. He can continue to feel bad and victimize and it will not help his marriage. Or he can be positive and lead the wife back to the path of happiness.
 
After reading and re-reading, I must also admit that I do not really understand littlewoman's replies.

I think she is dissuading TS from a divorce? Possibly suggesting that TS gives his wife another chance, and they should do their best to salvage their marraige without going to the extent of a divorce? That's just the gist I got, but I might be wrong.
 
doll, I've noticed that littlewoman was trying to paint us the perspective of the wife. I maybe wrong but she maybe sharing what went through her marriage when she let slipped the last round and how she and her husband managed to put it back together again..
 
"Strangely it is the hurt party that has to work harder to convince the betrayed party that they have to work hard for the marriage. And strangely the hurt party has to work doubly hard."

Nothing strange.

"Any relationship is under the control of the person who cares the least." -- Gordon Livingston
 

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