Seeking opinions from ladies

breaKingfRee: Agree with you that we wouldn't / shouldn't cause hurt to someone we love. Love is a big word, noone can say for sure that she love herself more. I believe it takes 2 hands to clap for everything to happen, she is at fault but what are the contributory factors that makes her fell in love with another person? Yes, she should have let go of the other guy if she is serious about salvaging the marriage, but it is always easier said than done. Noone can guarantee that we will practice what we feel and/or believed in when we are caught in such situations ourselves. Even she did leave TS previously, TS will not be feeling less miserable as he can’t let go of the feelings, the love he has for her. TS will not be feeling this miserable if he is feeling otherwise and he can let go of the marriage easier. What makes TS holding on to her, to the marriage if it isn’t about love. What makes her feeling so indecisive if she doesn’t have feelings for both guys? It takes joint efforts to ease the suspicions that are going on in TS’s mind, need joint efforts to helping her to forget and moving on with the marriage.

Thanks, the memories stayed but I had long put the incident and the feelings behind me.
happy.gif
 


sm: Agree with you..

AB: I am not trying to dissuade TS from going through a divorce, if TS realli feel hopeless and doesn't feel the love anymore, he will do it w/o anyone of us telling him anything. The point is how he actually feel. In my perspective, no pt harping on what had passed, what had happened, most importantly is how to proceed from here..
 
"Noone can guarantee that we will practice what we feel and/or believed in when we are caught in such situations ourselves."

I know, I can, and I did.
If one purports to hurt someone (ie knowing that one is hurting someone but refuses to let go), then chances are he/she loves him/herself more. I may be wrong on this, but love is not about possession. When you r in doubt of the r/s, why not just take a step back n look at the bigger picture?

I'm not doubting TS's feeling for his wife in any case but she having feelings for both is not good enuf a reason to cause misery to TS. Feelings come and go. If she chose to leave TS, he will still be miserable but he will also likely be able to move on much faster.

Either way, if TS carrys on to sit on the bench, then there's nothing anyone of us can do except to tell him to stop whining since this is what he has sowed.
 
"It takes joint efforts to ease the suspicions that are going on in TS’s mind, need joint efforts to helping her to forget and moving on with the marriage."

Action speaks louder than words. No point saying I want to rebuild trust and salvage marriage when there is no congruent behaviour to back up the words. Maybe they both should go through a cooling off period to think of what they really want from the marriage.
 
"What makes TS holding on to her, to the marriage if it isn’t about love. What makes her feeling so indecisive if she doesn’t have feelings for both guys?"

You have over rated love in marriage and divorce. Many people do not want divorce not because of love but face issue, HDB flat, fear of singlehood, denial, memories of old times, etc.
 
That's what I have mentioned in my previous posts; both of them should go for their individual getaways before they are able to know what they really want in their lives for the future. By facing each other each day won't help things. Things and status quo remains and this isn't healthy... Both need to know what they want before progressing further, one party will not be able to create any major impact or changes to currect situations...
 
We are both very clear that what we want in a marriage is to have someone to share joys and woes with. A necessary ingredient for that is mutual trust. After all that has happened, we are both unsure whether the trust was misplaced, and hence is fearful of committing to the marriage. The issues like fear of singlehood, face, HDB, memories etc are there, but they are secondary factors.

I believe in "mind over body" (like what breakingFree) said, and that love is a choice first, and emotion second. However, she, for whatever reasons, cannot subscribe to the same school of thought. Hence, this situation we have been embroiled in for over 2 months.

She has chose to leave as she said that she needed some space. I will choose to move on as well. My greatest regret is that the marriage failed in spite of my love for her. Perhaps, from her perspective, the same applies - just that the time dimensions were different.

I'm thankful to everyone here for their views and support. If it comes down to D, i hope that i can handle it as well as some of you did.
 
losingher: Looks like a concrete decision has been made in one way or another. I am sure it is not easy for you, but then again, at least a choice has been made after rounds and rounds of tears, unhappiness etc. Take care and be nice to yourself.... Go for a short vacation, it will helps in one way or another.
 
"one party will not be able to create any major impact or changes to currect situations..."

That depends on the decision.
If one party decides to leave the marriage, then he/she alone can make that change n impact in the r/s.
If they both decide to rebuild their marriage, then both have to do the necessary to make it work.
 
I have very low EQ. I don't understand what's the issue over here. Is it so difficult for TS's wife to ascertain who she loves??? And is it so difficult for TS to see for himself whom the wife loves: TS/the other guy/herself?

When a shoe doesn't fit, it doesn't fit. You can try squeezing into it, and walk, but you will end up with blisters. If you are willing to accept the blisters of pain, then stop whining and be nice to your spouse, be it whether he/she will reciprocrate or not. If you aren't, then please get this pair of shoes away from your life.
 
"I believe in "mind over body" (like what breakingFree) said, and that love is a choice first, and emotion second."

Yes, love is a choice, a decision or an act of the will. Emotions is the result of that choice, decision or act of the will.
 
"one party will not be able to create any major impact or changes to currect situations..."

Takes two to build a relationship but takes only one to end it.
 
Doll: Probably, my approach is too objective indeed, but frankly, I dun seem the point to persuade TS to doing / making any decisions on his part as I believe TS knows what he has to do eventually if the marriage falls thru despite the efforts he is making to salvaging it. Decision shld comes from himself, the willingess to let go of the marriage, the willingness to take a step back and probably, through PMs, I do knw the hope he has for the marriage, the hope he is harping on so far.. I simply listed out the possibilities that his wife might feel out of the whole saga and leaving the rest to him... Noone hopes to walk on the path of D unless it is realli at the last resort.. and the decision has to cm from the involved parties after a calm think-through.
 
Little Woman

I don't see anyone "forcing" him to divorce leh. I think the majority of the people here are encouraging him to explore different possibilities, and whatever decision he makes he has to be happy with it.
 
This is what I am trying to put across here... If not wun be telling TS that he has to think rationally and carefully before taking any further steps..
happy.gif
 
Mmmm, why need to repeatedly tell TS to "think rationally and carefully" when you already trust that he is capable of making a rational decision himself? Maybe this part I don't get it. You scared he's forgetful arh?
 
Doll: probably my command of English is rather bad;
happy.gif
my comments was meant in this simple way, dun act on impulsiveness, we do silly things when we are upset etc. This is human nature. But rational thoughts will set in after we have calmed down. That's why I say TS will be able to make a rational decision himself eventually after some sorting out and rational thinkings..
 
Nothing to do with bad command of the English language. Since we are at this, please allow me to point out that to communicate effectively is try not to repeat the same message time and again even though you meant well hehe

By the way, from TS' posts, I don't see a tendency to act on impulse. He is a very "thinking" type of person.
 
Divorce is not the only resolution to TS's situation. But TS must face up to himself, ultimately at the end of the day, what's the REAL reason/motivation for him to be in the marriage. Out here in this forum we can give plenty of advice for TS, but he has to face up to himself, his fears especially. He has to ask himself, and be truthful to himself, his real self. Once he can accept this truth about his real self, and his real motivation/reason to be in/out of the marriage, only then can TS move on with his life, with or without his partner.
 
doll: some people can be rather not thinking with the mind but with the heart when we faced with situations ourselves. Making decisions at that instant based on their feelings at that time.. eg. my HB is a practical and rational person but not for his chance and "irrationality", doubt I will be with him now..
happy.gif
 
Little Woman, we are talking about TS, not other people mah. He's pretty alright for someone going through a rough patch. Even if he decides on divorce the process is not immediate. Plenty of time to think rationally lah. No need to keep harping on the same message.
 
Doll: He can't decide which is the route he wants to take... One moment, choose to stay on, at the other moment, pondering on the road for Divorce. I am not enouraging him to stay on / leave but more so to allow himself to cool off and think carefully wat he wants eventually. Facing his wife everyday wun be beneficial... The suspicions and the "assumptions" going on in his mind wun help the situations afterall. There is time to think even if he choose divorce but wun it be much more helpful to make a decision before stepping on any "routes"?
 
losingher,

After so much discussion, I'm sure you already have a direction you probably want to take.

The next step is how to go through it and heal yourself.
 
littlewoman,

We both went through similar situations but in our cases, we were both willing to work things out. If not for that resolution, I doubt our other halves would have the strength to rebuild on the relationships.

TS's case is slightly different as he is facing challenges getting his wife to re-align her goals and vision with him.

Giving time to think is right, but that cannot go on endlessly. He's hanging still till now.
I always feel that one should always set a timeline of how long to grief and to try his/her best. By the dateline, if everything remains unchanged, it may jolly well be a wake up call to take necessary steps.

I believe everyone also hope for his marriage to work out.

Like I said before. Leaving could be the way to kick start the healing of their relationship. He has never gone away from her. She has never felt his departure. She will continue to stay in that loop I feel.
 
Agree with you that this can't go on endlessly.. that will drains one mentally and physically.. Guess it is time for actions now in a way right?
happy.gif
 
Doll, are you psychic? U're right, i'm more of a thinker.

Serene, i can't agree with your shoes analogy. As you said, love can be irrational, but shoes can't be. I don't make any commitment to my shoes that i'll wear them forever either. But if the shoes want to walk out, i can't stop it. The problem is that the shoes do not know what it want. I know what i want, and i know i have the choice to throw the shoes out as well...but what about my commitments? How to balance perseverance versus obstinacy? I don't know. Well, i have drawn a line in the sand, and if that line is compromised, i will force myself to act.

The part i have not 'mastered' is the ability to practise what SM preached about being positive in spite of having all the walls around me crumbling.
 
"I dun expect anything; like what u said: I am repeating my rationality logic out of concern for him."

I gather that for you, repetition is concern? I fear for you for being on the way of turning into a nag prematurely leh. I think at times, we keep silent to show concern. In life, there will be times and situations whereby the use of words is not an act of concern.
 
Repetition isn't always concern as you have mentioned and disagreed with. I only wish to let him know that there are many different perspectives out there for him to explore. I can't see how keeping silent could allow / lead to him to know all these.I am finding it hard to understand how would he learn about your concern and support if he can't hear/see you?
 
From what you have said, I am afraid that you may have overestimated the power of your words and influence on people's thoughts. And it has become apparent that the desire to get your message across may be greater than the concern for the other person's welfare. I often see this attitude in people who tend to repeat and repeat, bordering nagging.

Actually, what is it - You repeat because you don't trust that he can remember your advice?
 
I beg to differ that my words are able to influence other people's thoughts. If that's the case, it would be safer to keep me in a lock-up and/or being capable of a psychologist.. : )

I trust him to be able to think, in fact he has quite proven that he is capable of thinking of the route he wished to take or follow too. But why is he here? You might think that he's here to get your approval of him being a "thinking", sensible guy, but i feel that's not the real reason. He is here because he wants to know what other people are thinking? How they will react in his situation? Not because he need you to tell him if he should give his wife a chance. Who are we to judge or decide. Even those with personal life experiences, those who went through what he did, they are also not qualified to tell him what's wrong or right... worse of all to say that i am showing you concern by keeping silent......
 
It's not me to claim to be concerned for anyone in the virtual world. We all know that the "concern" here is different from the concern for our friends or family in the real world. By this I don't mean the concern here is fake, rather, it is not world-changing.

Most of us are here to talk sense, to exchange thoughts, not emotions.
 
Hi All, my 1st time posting here....
Woah seems there is some hostility between the 2 babes here.....
Chill gals, i guess we all want to show our concern for TS.... Maybe we show our concerns in different ways, but i think all of us mean well, when we share our feelings here.....Regardless of our methods....
Hey... No one is always right..... Cheers!
 
I do not see any difference with the concern shown here and in the "real" world. Maybe u are able to differentiate the "real" and "virtual" world. In any case, what is real, what isn't? Is it safe to say that since we are communicating in the "virtual" world, we do not exist at all? or just that we exist for the sake of talking sense, exchange thoughts here?

Of course we are here to talk sense and exchange thoughts... i would not be here if its not for that... But since when thoughts and emotions are seperated? With certain thoughts, we behave in certain ways.. And what causes us to feel that way? It's the emotions rising frm the thoughts... Or u could also argue that we think when we feel we need to... what what is feel? Its emotions.... So i guess they are inseperable....
 
Concern for our friends in the real world is accompanied by action. It can mean forgoing a night of sleep just to be there for your friend who is down and out. Here, where is the action? It's all words. You can't be thinking that your repetition can be interpreted as action of concern?

Why claim to be concerned when the desire to be heard is greater than that concern???
 
It's friday, everyone waiting to go home bah, so 'traffic' higher.

This thread to me is a big collaborative scratch pad...i come here to vent / to pen down my frustrations and thoughts / to seek opinions (sense) / to seek support (emotion) / to distract myself from thinking of stuff i don't want to think about / to seek help on where to find resources. I could chose to blog...but i'm lazy to start one, and i thought more people would post here since this is apparently quite a popular forum.

Everyone that "doodled" on my scratch pad put in the effort to do so, and probably spent some time in selecting the right words to convey what they meant as precisely as possible. That's why i'm appreciative...even the flames. Each doodle gave me something to mull about, or an opportunity to try something i've not thought of to improve my current situation.

In the end, i will print this out and file this into my diary. Years down the road, i may dig this up and laugh at myself, or use it to remind myself what i've been through, and the lessons drawn.
 
u ladies are losing focus liao. more like being defensive out of nothing.

Doll, i think you got littlewoman wrong.
Littlewoman, i think TS is not just a thinker - he knows what he wants from the start since August. But of course, he can't do it alone. Hence this thread.

Period.

ladies, pls bash me instead.
 
Well, I asked why need to repeat the same message and I can't even get a direct answer to that. And then this virtual concern becomes more and more far-fetched, even get equated to real life concern. That led me to ask where is the action of concern that can be seen in real life lor. If repetition is concern, I got show concern by repeatedly asking why a need to repeat. How come no one feel my concern for her?
 
Last reply: i applaud your efforts and desire to show concern to your "real" friends by your actions. But seriously, does that mean you have shown concern? And if you did not sacrifice a day of sleep for your friend, did your friend felt you were not concerned... What u missed here, is that, while you can go all day announcing all that you have ever done for your friends, the main question here is, did you do it with an uncompromising desire to feel for the person? Or were you just extending your methods of help when you saw your friend down and out?
At the end of the day, the methods of help do not matter as much as the effort the "heart" put in...As the old saying goes "It's the thought that counts"... Not the means... n definitely not the number of days you went sleepless......

I do not desire to be heard, i desire to listen to their problems. I do not desire to show how much i can do, i do not desire to lose sleep with them, i desire to accompany them sleep in peace......Guess that's what we are both different in........
happy.gif
 
Haha Doll, tat was a gd one... hey gals, chill ya... no point going on with the war of words here.. Win nothing ya?
anyway its fri.. woo hoo!!! Let's end this debate with a smile and embrace the weekend.....
 
Wah little woman.... u really......
Bt i agree w u...
Its the thought that counts not the means.....
And thus, we all approach a topic w a different mindset n different way to handle it as we all have different perspective.
SO shall we all end this debate here? : )
 
aiyo doll, just forgive & forget.... We r here to share our thoughts, no point getting upset ya. Anyway wat littlewoman said does make sense.... So make up, gals. I think the debate has reached its final stages, n so shall we end it? Guys wat do u tink?
 
Eh Big~ego, we are "New members" only
happy.gif
. Doll and littlewoman already clocked nearly 10000 posts here collectively. They know what they are doing, and perhaps, they are even enjoying the intellectual rigour required in such friendly banters.
 


You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top