Seeking opinions from ladies

losingher...
Go get the movie 'FireProof'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5lSu6GkC2k

Hope that movie will give you some ideas to win your wife back.

Dont Give Up, I do see a few cases they are having a better marriage after what had happened. Stay together she will appreciate you more for your forgiveness.

All the best to U...Jia You.
 


So true. Trust is earned. You give it 100% at first, but once eroded, its never the same. But it does not mean a hopeless situation.
Nothing to loose by putting your best to keep a relationship you still treasure dearly.
At the very least, you tried.
Will pray for you.
 
the problem with confrontation is, the 'cheater' will probably react in defense and pour out worms about TS. I don't think its so simple to just request her to cut off all contacts.

This is something alot of women insists their spouses to do. But, it doesn't really solve anything. Issues in the marriage still there and unresolved. Temptations are still all over.
 
milo,

"he problem with confrontation is, the 'cheater' will probably react in defense and pour out worms about TS. I don't think its so simple to just request her to cut off all contacts. "

I don't quite agree.

An affair is a betrayal. It is based on lies and deceit. Like all lies, the first thing is to acknowledge it and expose it. If it is not exposed (not necessary confrontation), then it will remain a lie.. and nothing can be done and where is the communication.

Acknowledgement by the cheater is necessary. If the cheater is not ready to face the truth, then so be it.. let him/her have more time.. but with damning evidence, for example, the cheater has to face the truth.

Then the cheater decides if he/she wants to go back to his/her spouse or not. If he/she wants to reconcile with his/her spouse, it is necessary to break away from the other party. This is absolutely necessary - he/she may resist but it has to be a condition for reconciliation.

Without breaking all contact, it is extremely difficult to end the affair. In many cases, it would mean one or more party has to change job if the affair with colleagues. Else changing of telephone number is necessary although it is not fool-proof.

Temptations are all over for sure. But there must be show of commitment to rebuild the marriage and we can't just sweep everything under the carpet and says that.. no.. I won't do anything.. but I am strong to resist temptation.. therefore.. life goes on.

Doing all these - no guarantee.. but I think it is necessary. I have seen it. People in the throes of affairs are like being on a drug.. being addicted. It has to be cold-turkey in order for one to get out of it. After a while, of course it is possible to go back to normal mode.
 
hi sm,

yes, acknowledgement is needed but I don't think its a simple thing just telling her to cut off all ties like this. I fully agree its difficult to end the affair without breaking the contacts.

My point is rather, u cannot break the contact FOR the spouse. It has to be something they do themselves. Nothing is stopping them from giving false assurance and proceeding on with the affair.

Vivien wrote : "No need to remain friends, since they've proven that they can overstep the boundaries of friendship, and will continue to do so."
So says the 'victim' only. Does the 'cheater' agree with that? There is no way to force that down the throat.

Its not that simple as a single confrontation demanding contacts to be stop. Will it end there? I'm really skeptical about this.

"Temptations are all over for sure. But there must be show of commitment to rebuild the marriage and we can't just sweep everything under the carpet and says that.. no.. I won't do anything.. but I am strong to resist temptation.. therefore.. life goes on."
Exactly, the 'cheater' must show the commitment. Its differrent thing as the 'victim' demanding it. This assurance should come voluntarily from the spouse. For the rebuild, both must believe and be committed to it.
 
Milo,

It has to be abrupt and cruel. The person in the affair, like a drug addict will NOT do it voluntary. It has to be a condition for reconciliation. The cheater has to agree.

Ok.. The practical aspect is more challenging. But agreement to break all contact is necessary as a pre-condition. It will take perhaps many reiteration to completely break-off because really it is not easy.. but on the outset, the cheater has to agree to break completely.

Like all lies and deceit, it will take a while. But not having a commitment to end it will mean it will take even longer or never at all.

"Nothing is stopping them from giving false assurance and proceeding on with the affair. "

Yes. It is true. But if they agree to stop and they go back on their words.. it is a different story.. In most situation, they will ask to be given more chances.. then the cycle will continue.. and over time with determination, it is possible to break the cycle..

But if still remain as friends and see each other everyday.. how to stop?

Like I say. Cold-turkey is required. Even for cold-turkey, people may succumb and go back. But repeatedly, it is possible to stop the addiction.

But if you think that it is ok to mix around with drug addict and stop your addiction, I say you must have very good will power. If you have very good will power, in the first place you will not be tempted.
 
You see.. most cheater will tell their spouse.. to give them time.. to break-off.. really, it is not time that is required.. it is just the determination to break-off.

How to give time to end an affair? They will feel even closer thinking the whole world is against them. They will feel more in love with each other..

the break-up should be abrupt and total. But yes it will take time for it to be complete.
 
sm, we are actually talking about the same thing.
But, in addition what I am saying is this cutting contact thing cannot be forced down the throat.

Cold turkey is done by the person themselves. Not the spouse chaining the person. It is needed but no one else can do it for them. They need to believe in it and really want to cut off the ties. If its forced, I'm truly skeptical on its effectiveness. I'm not challenging the idea but its implementation. The wrong implementation is likely to be ineffective.

If I'm in the situation where my partner cannot break all ties, then I wouldn't force her. I will leave as I have no confidence in the marriage nor the relationship without her conviction. I cannot and will not force her to break up with the 3rd party. It is something she must want to do herself.
 
milo,

Have you ever handle a drug addict in cold-turkey?

You don't chain.. but the addict has to be confined.. it has to be..

You cannot have someone in cold turkey free to roam the streets for drugs.. it simply won't work.

Unfortunately servering of ties with the other party is a necessity. It has to be a condition for reconciliation..

How is it done? You can say no need to break contact, can be friends, blah blah blah.. that is what the cheater will think.. but it won't work..

It is not forcing against the will. If the cheater is not willing then yes, it will be forcing. But if the cheater is willing, then he/she has to accept that severing of ties/contacts with the other person is necessary.

many a times, the cheater wants to break-up.. but it is not easy if still seeing the other party daily or even still change exchange mails/sms/phone calls. We are just saying to set the conditions so that cheater can break away more easily..
 
sm,

drug addiction is a life long thing. It is not as simple as one cold turkey period.

Even if you confine the addict against his/her will, it doesn't stop them from getting back on drugs.

Note that I DID NOT say no need to break contact. Because this is not what I'm driving at at all.

Until a point the cheater understands what he/she really needs to do and do it willingly, there is nothing the other party can do except either to convince or influence or break up or give some form of deadline for them to sort out their thinking.

My point is really simple. The determination and conviction to cut off an addiction MUST be from within. Note, I say MUST, not should or maybe. No one else can decide that for us. Of cos, support is important but without this conviction, everything else is bullshit.
 
Milo,

I guess you didnt get what I mean.

the conviction to break is given. The cheater must be willing and convicted to break.. This is given. If the cheater is not WILLING. I agree with you. anything else is bullshit.

I AGREE 100% with the ABOVE.

But AFTER having the agreement and the conviction.. the cheater needs all the help and set all the pre-conditions in order to be successful.

1 of the pre-conditions is:

a) Break off contact with the other party. It cannot be suka suka.. like still refuse to break off contact.. or take own sweet time. Because if you are convicted to break, then what I am saying is that this pre-condition is important.

It is pointless to say you are convicted and then you still want to keep in contact with the other party (at least in the initial stages, there should not be contact)

It is like a drug addict, while agreeing to cold-turkey treatment.. and yet still want to go partying with friends on drugs.

Of course a single cold turkey may not be sufficient. But definitely if you don't start with one... and still want to mix around with drug addicts, the possibility of getting rid of the addiction is NIL.
 
i'm more with milo on this...

perhaps frens can do the 'forcing', parents can do the 'forcing'... but the spouse - i dun recommend...

i dun think the relationship is such a co-dependent conditional nature where u Need the other party to do something, then u'll do another thing.
 
with any conviction, it must be from within and NOT pressurized into. That is the difference I'm trying to point out. If the person is put into cold turkey against their will, then it will not work.
 
yup, i wouldn't wanna force anyone to leave anyone or go cold turkey... just state my stand and leave the person to it...
 
YES, I NEVER say conviction not come from within. But after conviction, then? I SAID the conviction is GIVEN.

Conviction itself is not enough.. it need the practical aspect.

As a betrayed spouse, you CANNOT FORCE your spouse anything. You just need to ask a question:

"Do you want to reconcile and leave the other party".

If the cheater has the conviction (yes within) and want to reconcile.. then we can talk about the practical aspect.

Reconcile and leave the other party has to go together.. You cannot reconcile with your spouse and yet continue with the affair. It is one or the other. If the cheater cannot make up the mind.. not convinced.. yes, we cannot force.

But if the cheater agrees to reconcile and leave the other party... the rest will following the practical aspect.

Notice.. the cold turkey is just a treatment. It is not the root. The root is to agree to get rid of the addiction. If you agree to get rid of the addiction, cold turkey (or multiple times) is the most effective way. It has been proven.

And after that, you have to make sure that you are not near to friends with drugs..
 
Faith, i've seen that movie being recommended someewhere else, it must be good. I've checked out a few local DVD shops, but to no avail. Is this only available online? Thks for the support.

Ruthe, thanks for your prayers.

Powder, Milo, SM, your perspectives are enlightening, as usual. I also think that it is pointless for me to insist anything, in fact, i'm not even sure if insisting that she quit her job is the right way to go. She likes the job, and it's convenient for her since it's near our place, etc. Although thinking about them possibly meeting everyday drives me crazy.

I don't think i have any choice, but to continue to love her, to SHOW that i love her (most important to her), and to trust her. However, if she is taking me for a ride, i don't think i've reached the state where i'm noble enough to continue to treat her as my wife. At the most, i'll let her go and she'll have my well wishes (I suspect this is easier said then done)

So it all boils down to my gut feeling on how things between us are progressing. I just hope that my trust is not misplaced...or a part of me will probably die.
 
the best advice i can give u is to treasure your life and your time on earth... whatever doesn't make u happy - u have the choice not to hold on to it...

i have gone thru sufficiently in life to tell u that u can treasure the memories, keep them, but dun ever hope to have them repeated... it will never do u any good except to waste away your time on earth.

my memories of all my loved ones (living or dead) stays with me to give me strength to live life to the fullest... i dun believe any of them want to to incapacitate myself repeating the memories over n over. happiness is always close to me becos i dun embrace sad things nor stay in sadness out of neccessaity or romanticise on things...

happiness is never too far, only a thought away. and until u master the ability to see thru the negatives in live as the neccessities for living life, u will never be truly happy.

when time comes, cut away all that cause u unhappiness and negativity. take care.
 
sm, that is why I'm telling you that we are speaking about the same thing. I didn't say that you said conviction not come from within.

Rather, u said "How is it done? You can say no need to break contact, can be friends, blah blah blah.. that is what the cheater will think.. but it won't work.."

And I'm telling u that isn't what I'm talking about.
 
Just watched Fireproof...and i would strongly encourage all to watch it as well.

I'm still coping, and learning as i fight this "fire" in my relationship with my wife. In a fire, you never leave your partner alone.

Thks everyone.
 
Heartpain, got it through ebay for S$20.

My wife appears to be willing to work on the marriage with me. While i'm thankful, things felt different from before, and i can't put my finger on it yet. I suppose it's only normal that she seems to be holding back.

So angry that the 3rd party still owes my wife money. What kind of man woos a married woman, and borrows a huge sum of $$$ from her? Not a gentleman for sure. I've not spoke to him at the request of my wife, perhaps i should?
 
no, u shouldn't...

its an opportunity to let ur wife know what kind of man he really is... if he doesn't pay, an expensive lesson learnt...

but, u hv to secretly keep track of things...

what really transpired between them, u dun know for sure... so the safe thing to do is to be more observant...
 
It is always better for your wife to realise what kinda of man the person realli is.. Whatever people says might falls on deaf ears, most importantly is what she find out for herself, that is the real feelings and she will eventually make a better choice through all these real feelings..
 
I will try not to speak ill of the third party especially if I do not know him/her personally. Absolutely no contact with the person if it can be helped, unless your partner/spouse asks for advices or seeks help from you.

If you decide to forgive and reconcile, you have to start to trust again. Trust that your partner/spouse is able to handle the situation. Having said that, of course your partner/spouse must do his/her part to earn the trust.
 
Hi,
So sorry that I missed your question on where to get the CD, to those who are interested you may try the christian bookshop - Zion.

I am really glad that you are encouraged by the movie. Although the story line is simple but it bring the message across to anyone who have given up hope. I can see that you and wife are working things out. So happy for you both, sense the love is going to come back to you both again, treasure this moment of winning this difficult race together. U can DO it. God bless u both.
 
Everything seems nice and cordial now...yet something is just missing; I can't feel that she really loves me anymore. Is she staying out of guilt or just to get by?

Theres a quote in the Fireproof movie: "You can't listen to what you feel at the moment". There's also a saying that love is a choice first, a feeling second. I suppose have to try much harder.

Have you been in the same situation? What were your feelings, and was there anything you wished that your husband could have done to make things easier for you?
 
Do try to do what the dad teach the son to do, show her that what you once hold dearly cant compare to your love for her, slowly win her heart back to you. As long as you did not give up, there are still hope to fix up a mess up puzzel.

Let her know that you did not blame her for what had happened. If she is willing you would like to have a fresh start of this relationship.
Wish you both have the same outcome as the movie.

Pls email me if you need to seek counselling help. [email protected]
 
You are taking everything skeptically. And you doubting the sincerity and motive of her every action. Naturally, you couldn't appreciate any of it. The negativity is eating into you.

If you really want to work things with her, u need to start trusting her again. And very importantly, your efforts must be aligned with her. Sooner or later, you need to talk this with her. Find the good time to talk.
 
"Have you been in the same situation? What were your feelings, and was there anything you wished that your husband could have done to make things easier for you?"

Yes. I was in a similar situation being the one in err. My other half gave me space and time to sort myself first while always reminding me he's there for me anytime and I could relate how I feel at any moment when I felt like it. He made my confession to him "easy" by letting me know that he will listen to the entire truth as a "third party" without acting up. When I related my story, he was really encouraging me on at every step. I was plagued by a guilt so strong that I almost thought I could never forgive myself.

I was really grateful to him who went through this entire struggle with me and not giving up. He actually had the capacity to hear me sob out how I felt about the other party and walk through all my emotions. We both cried plenty this low period.

For one thing, your wife probably can't make sense of herself right now. She's probably still confused and wondering what exactly she wants.

It will be tough for you at this moment while she finds herself and face up to her problems. As she does that, you probably also have to ask yourself if you can trust her again in future.

It isn't easy really. What work for me may not work for your wife.

Every major down can be a start to something better. Our relationship improved tremendously after forgiveness. I wish you well.
 
Thanks for sharing karma, appreciate that a lot.
I've not talked to her about this issue since last week. There are questions, and issues i need closure to. Will prob talk to her again tonight, i hope i can be as calm and rational as your husband.

Regarding trust, i'm not sure if it can ever return to the same level as before. I may always have this nagging fear that she'll do it again with every minor hiccup in our relationship. I really don't want to become someone i wasn't just to please her 100% of the time.

I don't know. Will take it one step at a time.
 
Do you know why? By the way, how did you find out that she met the other man? Don't jump into conclusion yourself. Clarify with her first.
 
Doll: They work at the same place. She is still running little errands for him (i saw receipts), and they are still SMSing each other outside of working hours. Anyway, she admitted that she still have "good feelings" about him.

I asked her point blank if she love that man, and although she can only muster a "good feelings" reply, her hesitation tells me everything. So Janey, I think you're right, and truth hurts like hell.

I asked if she has considered divorce, but she said she don't want to go there. She said she is still confused. She said that she want to try to work on the relationship, but cannot commit...she said what if things don't turn out well and i've be even more disappointed. I asked if she still love me, and she said yes.

Now i'm also confused. It's like being stuck between the devil and the deep blue see. I guess that's why most people said that this is gonna be tough.

(Hey if i appear to be going around in circles, i think i am, but i just needed a place to catalog my thoughts and feelings...however this turn out, i think it's a good record for me to reflect on things in the future so that i can avoid the same mistakes)
 
honestly, i think ur chances of winning her back is pretty slim...

she claimed she is confused and refuse to commit... she's holding on to u and yet still hv "gd feelings" for another guy she sees everyday at workplace...

u're rite, i think she's buying time...

and if things dun go well between her and the guy, there is always u for her to fall back on...

so r u still keen to keep her? If yes, then stop being the nice guy here... be machiavelli's prince, be ruthless if it's necessary...

well, know ur enemy, then locate his achilles heel...
 
she might be confuce, but she might be taking advantage of u and living in best of both world. U should give her a deadline
 
Judging from what you said, I think you have to make firm your stand that in a relationship, there cannot be a 3rd party. Ask her to put herself in your shoes and see how she would feel. Definitely you have to give her a deadline to decide.

Though my bf was really patient and gave me time, I set myself a deadline as well to try to move on and forget the other party.

When being nice and patient meant that the other party takes it for granted, then you have to take some actions.

Tell her that it would be tough cos there are feelings involved. But working a relationship out is a matter of choice. If she wants to salvage the marriage, then there's only 1 choice for her, and that is to really do every action that is towards that goal, which may include resigning (even my counsellor tells me that).

After the deadline, if she still cannot make up her mind, you probably have to make that decision yourself. Sometimes people will only appreciate when what is taken granted for is no longer available.

Stay strong ok... It will tough for quite a while.
 
Karma: looking at your post on 25 August reminds me of the past between my HB and I; same thing, I was the one who err and HB was the one who gave me so much support that I can't help but up till today, still feeling the guilt..

Losing her: they knw each other as colleagues, how to break contacts? One has to be heartless in order to completely let go of a r/s or a person, and it makes things harder if both are in the same working place, unless both have the same determination and opinions to only remain as friends. I am not trying to side with your wife, but you have to give her time to do that, and you have to learn how to re-trust her. By keep forcing her to facing her feelings towards the guy, will not help things. A decision can't be made when one is a state of confusion and it wun help to keep insisting that a decision has to be made now and then. Discuss with your wife, how much time does she thinks she needs to forget about the r/s with the guy and/or to make a proper decision. Going into a seclusion over the weekends might help her to calm her thots and making a proper decision. She shld get away from the both of you in order to clearly thinks what she really wants.
 
I'm not sure if there's any point for me to set any deadline for her. Perhaps, i can set a deadline for myself.

I'm more with littlewoman on her suggestion to ask her to set a deadline for herself. I've got a feeling that she'll say she don't know though, so it'll be back to square one. But, at least, i've set a deadline for myself without pressuring her, if she is indeed in a state of confusion. The downside is that she may take the status quo for granted. Being nice and patient in this limbo state does put a tremendous strain on me emotionally and physically.

How much time is generally required? 1 month? 2 month?

Btw, is it normal that she does not seem remorseful at all for what she has done. She did not even said that she was sorry for what she has done, but simply said that she don't know how it happened; how she allowed someone else into her heart. She told me she felt no guilt...and it was not because of guilt that she chose to stay in the relationship.

I'm losing hope, but i've to at least try right. I don't want myself, or her, to have any regrets in the future. Thanks for all the advice and encouragement.
 
To my dear wife, it was 2 Jun, 4 years ago, that we stood before our marriage solemniser, filled with happiness and hopes for a future together. Everything is still very vivid to me, and it seems like yesterday...

"Before you are joined in matrimony, it is my duty to remind you of the solemn and binding character of the vows you are about to make. Marriage according to law is the union of one man and one woman, voluntarily entered into for life, to the exclusion of all others.

Do I understand that you __________________ and you ________________ are here of your own free will for the purpose of becoming man and wife?
Yes

To Bridegroom
Will you, __________________ take this woman ______________ to be your wedded wife, to live together in the legal estate of matrimony? Will you love her, comfort her, honour and keep her in sickness and in health and forsaking all others, be faithful to her, so long as you both shall live?
I will

To Bride
Will you, _________________ take this man _________________ to be your wedded husband, to live together in the legal estate of matrimony? Will you love him, comfort him, honour and keep him in sickness and in health and forsaking all others, be faithful to him, so long as you both shall live?
I will"

I've loved u, comforted u, honoured and kept u in sickness and in health and forsaking all others, been faithful to you since we became an item. I made the mistake of falling into the trap of being a Martian, and forgetting your Venus needs...but it seems that that's sufficient for you to throw all that we held precious and our future together away.

I cannot do all this much longer. I am sapped of strength to carry on. All the promises and then lies cannot go on.

I wish you happiness, always.
 
a new chapter will begin for u...

keep the old journal in the cabinet, get a new journal and new pens... there's much to write cos there's much to live...
 
Losingher: It is a separate thing and issue altogether that she felt no guilt of how things started between the guy and her and staying with you coz of guilt? Did she kinda of misinterpret wrongly? It could be true that there is no guilt to staying with you as she loves you and wanting to mend the marriage but it doesn't mean that she isn't guilty towards you in starting the affair. I am not staying that it is easy but she has to face up to her feelings, is she emotionally attached or simply attracted to the guy due to "fresh feel/feelings".. She can't be confused as hw things started, there is a cause and effect to everything, thus, she mus have known the cause. Did the affair started coz 2 of u were having issues, did the guy have qualities that you dun have or she hoping that you do, did the guy treat her better etc etc.. Noone except her can ans these qns.. she is just afraid to face the truth, however, in order to resolve and letting go of her feelings entirely, she has to do it and she should also face the fact that she can't be having both guys at the same time, a dateline has to be given for a choice. But don't pressurize her, give her support and let her see/decide for herself who is the guy she love most. It will comes a time whereby a wise choice will be made. No definite time as in how long a person will let go of his or her feelings.. but facing up is the 1st step of the decision-making process.
 
I think Losingher must be feeling really sad and down and all the negativity is sapping up his strength to do anything at this moment? Don't know if he can continue being nice at this junction reading what he has wrote..

Losingher: I don't know what is your decision at this point, but do you want to consider going for counselling? It can help you understand your situation better and gain some strength.
 
Affairs after being exposed won't last long. If it can last, it would mean that the marriage is gone. Affairs started because someone else can fill the emotional gaps in the betrayer space. Once the reality of the affair sinks in and even assuming that the betrayer and the other person are

Both need to set a time frame. The betrayer need to be focus and set a time frame to cut the affair. The hb needs to set a time frame in which he will wait ..

Some gurus advise, depending on your level of energy and patience - even to wait up to a year although in most cases, 3 to 6 months will be enough to settle the issue one way or another.
 
But I think TS is kinda of unable to take it further.. given that his wife is still hanging in the middle in one way or another.. Hmmm.. Perhaps like wat karma had suggested: both of them might want to consider marriage counselling?
 
After all that has been said and done, after all the empty promises and subterfuges, i'm not sure what's left i can do. I've tried and got hurt repeatedly. In spite of all these, i still love her and remained supportive of her. I'm just so worn out.

Talking to her is like peeling away layers of an onion; it brings tears to my eyes, and i never know how much more that is hidden away from me. I never got the sense that she is completely honest with me.

Since she repeatedly told me that she wanted to work on the relationship, i've told her that it has to be premised on her severing all contacts with the other person. She said she can't do that, because they need to communicate as part of work. Ok, i asked her to consider quitting her job to save the marriage, she said she doesn't think it'll help. I then asked her to see a counsellor together with me, which she declined citing the same reasons. What about abstaining from communicating with him on personal matters, i asked, which she agreed half-heartedly. Then the next moment, i found out that she continued to make contact with him constantly throughout the day, and some of those were late at night while i was distracted doing something else.

I asked her what's happening, and she told me no such thing happened. Asked again, she said she can't remember (and that's a day ago). Asked more pointed questions, and she suddenly recalled that he asked her some work related matters. Probed some more, she admitted that he also asked about some DVD stuff (if i can believe her), and so on. It was really painful to have to "interrogate" your own wife. To me, it seems that she is always looking for loopholes in my requests of her so that she can continue doing what she was doing and yet explain her way out of situations because my requests were not specific enough.

I'm tired of all these. How low do i have to stoop? Do i have to grovel at her feet? What's the point then? If she doesn't love me anymore, wherein lies happiness for her? Why did she keep saying she still want to work on this? I'm still hanging on, but i'm really not sure how much more of these hits i can take.
 

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