Seeking opinions from ladies

littlewoman: She said she doesn't know when it started (If i can believe her). I started feeling it around Apr this year. I saw a mushy SMS from him to her in 31/12/08. He joined the company 2 years ago. She admitted to the relationship about 2 weeks back, only after i presented facts that she could not refute. She still insisted that they did not hug, or held hands (I know they did). I don't know if they had sex. In my mind, she never really came clean with me on it.

Doll: That's the only thing i rely on now...at this stage, i would really want to hear the truth from her, rather than to second guess her intentions all the time. Without trust and honesty, how can we move forward?
 


Losingher: I don't think she's fully ready to work on your relationship yet.

Like what sm said, you can ask her how long does she think she needs to cut the other party out and you can also tell her what your timeline would be like. You have to show her that you are really very serious about this. That after the timeline and she is still not showing her will to salvage the marriage, you will definitely call it off. If not she takes it for granted that you will continually be there and she can continue living her life like that. It will do none of you good.

I've got a feeling that she is not taking it seriously cos she is still having the best of both worlds. Her husband did not flare at her and is still selflessly giving in to her and she still gets to talk to that colleague. Why can't she stay that way? Denial mode perhaps.

I must say that I was lucky because my guilt caught up with me to make me decide that I really have to work things out.

I told both parties that I will give myself 3 months to get a sense of myself. I did not even know then if I could even get a hold of my own feelings. I was honestly (selfishly)afraid that I would end up with neither parties in my process of finding back myself, but that was the possible outcome I have to pay for my mistakes. It was a tough period for me.

Your wife needs to wake up from that same mistake... She probably don't feel as guilty yet... Which explains her actions still.

Jia you..
 
losingher,

if the affair dates back to dec last year as the sms suggests, then quite certain she has already formed a strong attachment to the guy to want to do anything to part wif him...

think u gotta give her an ultimatum if u dun wanna waste time playing the waiting game...

btw, is the guy married too? hopefully, there's no secret plan underway and u're the last one to know...
 
Losingher: Personally, I think she might not be lying when she told you that she doesn't know the exact date that the whole saga started.. At times, there is no definite date for it. You mentioned that there was a mushy sms from the guy on 31 Dec, may I know how mushy it might be? Moreover, did your wife reply the sms?

Taking into the aspect that we trusted your gut feeling, the whole saga started in Apr this year, it been like about 5 months, I wldn't say that it is a long period but at times, 5 months might not be a short period as well. I do believe that she is emotionally attached to him and she is kinda of confused at this time, having to choose between you and him. Is the guy single, married or attached? There are 2 scenarios whereby she is reacting in this way now, 1) She doesn't know what/who she wants and 2) the best of both worlds. You are feeling miserable as you are having those assumptions going round and round in your head; which is not healthy to rebuild this marriage. How much do you want your wife to come clean and how much can you take it? From your knowledge, has she ever sneak out in the night? Has she ever been out of the country as of todate? If you are asking us if she has ever hold hands with the guys etc, I think it is slight chances where she is speaking the truth.. However, it realli take a lot of courage to admit and faces the truth. Honestly, I fear for the worse when I choose to come clean too.. You have to learn to trust what she tells you and not suspecting every single facts.. it is gonna to be miserable if this carries on. Also, Trust is realli an important factor if you want to rebuild your marriage.
 
losingher,

instead of waiting for an ans from the cheating spouse... going crazy second guessing her every move, u should be finding out the truth for urself... no matter how ugly the truth will turn out to be... leave no stone unturned...
 
Hi karma person, good for you that at least u still have the conscience for your guilt. As for many spouses who cheat, they don't have a conscience. They are just plainly sick people in life. And whatever they have done, only made the loved ones who love them truly even more sick with them.
 
losingher,

In handling affairs.. There are two classic plan.

Plan A. For you to give a timeline for you wife to break the affair. In the meantime you should still be as nice as possible to your wife. Timeline is from 3 to 6 months. Sometimes up to a year depending on your energy because it is not really easy to be nice when you are depressed.

Plan B. If Plan A is not working. Obviously it is hard to work when they are colleagues and there is not plan for one of them to quit. Then you have to execute Plan B. Plan B is to leave your wife, be separated from her. No contact with her till her affair breaks completely - ie no communication whatsoever with the other guy. If you wife still value the marriage, Plan B will shake her up. But if plan B fails then it will probably be the end of the marriage.

Some couples went through mini Plan A & Plan B in between.
 
Losingher: You might have to have a control over yourself and your emotions before executing any plans... it is not easy but it might be worthwhile if both parties are willing to rebuild the marriage and make it works.
 
losingher,

Actually there is no point for you to find out what stage of affair your wife is having - either holding hands, hugging or sex.. or just emotional affairs. An affair is an affair - no point to really probe too deep if you still want to save the marriage. The less you know the better it will be. And she will not be truthful to you because she won't want to hurt you further.. if you know what I mean.

From the look of it, she is half-hearted about breaking off. If she really value the marriage she should know what she should do - even to the extent of changing job and mobile no and even in extreme case, shifting house.

At the very least, I think changing job or at least the intention and looking for another job is a positive sigh. And an affair in the office place can blow up big.. so if it is out in the open, where to hide the face.. then quit when it is being exposed?
 
Personally I feel that it doesn't really makes much difference to quitting the job. Overall, we can start affairs anywhere, anytime. Noone can guarantee that history wun repeat itself once she changes her job? There are so many possible scenarios: other more eligible guys going after her in the new coy etc etc.. Most importantly is she is clear of what she wants and if she is clear with her objective of saving the marriage, TS should give her support in this, to retrust and rebuild the marriage.. No pt asking her anything if TS is suspecting every single thing that she is saying; it will ruin the marriage as well..
 
Actually I just felt that her quitting her job is the first thing she could do to let TS know that she is willing to work things through. Of cos, she can always start other new affairs, but right now it is important for her to work on regaining trust from TS. At least it shows her will.

I'm sure anyone who has caught their spouse cheating and still wanting to work things out, has to struggle with alot of trust issues.

After my incident, I was well awared that my spouse still had issues with his trust on me. On my side, I had to show willingness, cooperation and action on salvaging our relationship. It's really bo bian you know. Cos you have erred, and all these actions are simply necessary steps for me to assure him.

I think SM has provided 2 very good approaches lor. Choose one and try to stick by it if you can. It wouldn't make your life any easier than it is now, but definitely it will get better.
 
I'm back in the US again. Sigh...things are so difficult. I felt so helpless because i can't do anything at all to move the situation forward from here.

I know i need to be 'normal' and nice towards her. Its so difficult because i can't feel her love for me. It doesn't make me love her less, but it demoralises me. I frequently wonder if I'm being over sensitive.

In the past, i could just feel it through the little things she do, or say. i knew i could count on her and trust her to be there for me, and that alone, is enough to keep me happy even when the going gets tough. However, our future is now murky and uncertain. Will she still be here by my side next month, or next year? Nothing to plan for, nothing to look forward to. I just find it so difficult to behave normally (like in the past) when being around with her. I get jumpy, and couldn't help it but always imagine the worse.

Sigh...perhaps i should also to take a small step back from the relationship? Would it help us get a better perspective of things? For now, she is still priority no.1 for me, should i TRY to change that?

Again, thks for all the advice.
 
i feel you might wanna try to really move away from the r/s thus giving her the space to 'feel' the effects of losing u ...

she's still very confused from what i've read and infact if she's serious about making a choice, she should steer clear of both and only then can she properly access its really who she loves. from what you have posted, its looks as if she's hanging on to both .. taking you for granted .. taking the fact that u still love her and will not leave her .. for granted.

so i strongly feel that since she's not putting in her best efforts to give u the assurance .. n am still confused .. then u have to do the 'job' for her .. move on ba and if she cherishes u and loves you, she will be back in no time .. n if she doesn't then ya pointless to hold on to someone who doesn't reciprocrate your feelings.
 
losingher: it is the norm that you are feeling insecure.. as I guess though she has always been saying that she had made a choice, but you simply feel that nothing has been done, she is still caring for that guy, doing things for him etc etc. You are the only one who understands her, you are the only one who probably know the true meanings of her single actions. However, as you are being blurred by your own emotions now, you might want to talk to a common friend, perhaps he or she is able to give you better objective advises from a third party pt of view?
 
littlewoman: Thanks, i've been thinking of doing that. I'm not sure how she'll take it though, cos as far as i know, she has kept her affair a secret, and only 1 of her friends knew. I certainly don't want to embarrass her unnecessarily, but if all else fails, i'll have a good talk with a common friend. In the worst case scenario, my wife will at least have some support from a sensible and relatively more mature friend. I don't trust that the 'accomplice' will be able to give her good advice, and be there for her cos i have this feeling that she is just a fair-weather friend.

1 more week till i get back to SG. My wife felt so distant from me physically and emotionally. She seems to be trying, but it felt as though it required a lot of effort on her part. Her love is gone, and i don't know if its possible to rekindle that love again. I'm trying; doing sweet things and stuff. But it felt superficial, and i still feel hollow afterwards. Each time she hurts me, i feel us drifting further apart...and one day, all the king's horses and all the king's men, couldn't put humpty together again.
 
losingher: we have to face up to the truth in order to correct our mistakes and to walk back to the right path. While I was struck in this vicious cycle, my HB called one of my best friend to meet up with me. Though my best friend lectured me, I was glad that the talk help and through the whole conversation, I was awaken by it.. You need to speak to someone who she trust and yet listen to.. This will helps in one way or another. But again, the impt thing is the best common friend has to give opinions based on objective views, dun be biased or stray his /her opinions. There is no wrong or right in such things, what matters most is analysis of why things happen..

Each time she hurts me, i feel us drifting further apart = u might want to elaborate further, what did she do to hurt you further?
 
Thanks for the sharing, although things may pan out differently for me, i was encouraged by how well it turned out for you and your husband.

Well, the last time was after i had a talk with her, and she agreed to 'try' working on the relationship. Then i found out that she wasn't even trying i.e. she communicated >30 times (SMS/voice) with the other party within a day, and she deleted all SMSes with him. When i confronted her, she gave me a cock and bull story. I couldn't even imagine how she could have done that.

Nonetheless, we talked again, and she agreed that she'll not communicate with him again on non-work matters. She wants to 'slowly' forget him. Let's see.
 
losingher: How did you realise that she deleted all the smses? Hmm.. someone has to take the 1st step to ending the whole saga... if the guy wun do it, your wife has to do it.. Give her time, I bet the guy is kinda of playing on her soft part at the time being.. I am sure your efforts will also pay off eventually..
happy.gif
 
littlewoman: She did not clear her call log, that's how i realised she deleted some of her smses. I did tell her that if we are serious about working on the marriage, we cannot be sneaking around doing things behind each others back.

There were some turbulence on board the plane enroute to washington DC just now, and i was thinking if the plane were to crash, who would be topmost on my mind? I realised that she'll be the person i'll be worried about, and would want to tell her that i love her the most. Although, i've been thinking of pulling back from the relationship, i love her so much that i'm not sure if i'll be able to pull it off.

She is behaving quite coldly towards me again...no SMSes to ask me how i'm doing, no replies to my SMSes. It's like i'm an acquaintance to her now. I feel so miserable; i loved her so much, but she just don't seem to feel the same towards me anymore. Worse still, the situation ended up like that not due some serious mistakes on my part, but rather a plain lack of proper communications between us. She have so much misunderstandings regarding my feelings for her...sigh.
 
Losingher, y still want hang on since it's so miserable for u.

Maybe whenh u go separate way, u and her will be happier. If u love someone, it does not mean she needs to be with u. Letting go maybe better for both of your future
 
"She is behaving quite coldly towards me again...no SMSes to ask me how i'm doing, no replies to my SMSes."

she's probably busy texting someone else and thus hv no time for u...

let's face it, if she can risk doing it behind ur back when u're ard, i dun see why she would not when u're out of town....

not trying to dissuade u from saving the marriage... just wanna tell u the "Right here waiting" approach u're employing now is simply NOT enough...

pls... be bloody honest wif urself...

be in the know... and u work from there

it's time to change tactics...
 
Sony, i know about the "if you love her, let her go" concept, but it's easier said than done. Maybe, a few months or years from now, things will be clearer on hindsight. I think i need to give it time to come to terms with it, no matter how miserable i'll be.

Junkie, i know where u're coming from. I agree to a certain extent, but i can't do much from here, and i'm miserable all the same. I'm also not prepared to do one of these "right here waiting" thing indefinitely, but i'm not about to go to the other extreme without even trying. Even if she is indeed SMSing the other party behind my back, i'll still love her, though i'll be extremely hurt.

I will move on when the marriage is over.
 
losingher: Humans tend to take for granted alot of things in life, including the assumptions that our partners will know how we feel about them w/o us revealing our feelings. I guess that explains the reasons of why would there be a misunderstanding of how you feel towards her. As what you said, you love her still, but the thing is she isn't ready to letting go of the guy completely at the moment, this is the part whereby you have to stand firm on this pt, she has to stop communication outside office. May I ask how long were you guys together before getting married? You might want to try reviving the r/s by doing some of the things both of you enjoyed doing whilst in courtship..
 
littlewoman: About 4 years, and then married 4 years. Yah, assumptions...i wished i knew how to properly communicate with her, then perhaps all these wouldn't have happened. E.g. for women, being there for her = doing little sweet things for her, for men, being there for her = being willing to lay down our lives to protect her from harm. The problem is, for the latter, there's probably no way of proving it till it happens. That's one hard lesson i've learnt because she always complain that she don't feel that i'll be there for her. I always tell her not true, and left it at that.
 
losingher: There is a little difference between men and women. . THough yes, we can't prove the latter but little little actions will show how much we love our partners, hw long have you not compliment your wife? hw long have you ever did small and yet meaningful stuffs for her? Who wouldn't want to be pacified by her / his partner? You might consider starting from the basics again..
 
hi losingher,

i suggest u watch this swedish film - Scenes from a Marriage, directed by the great Ingmar Bergman - to give u insights which r highly relevant to ur current challenge. it certainly won't make u happier... in fact, it's brutally honest at times... but u might gain some clarity if u view it with an open mind...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scenes_from_a_Marriage

http://cgi.ebay.com/criterion-coll-scenes-from-a-marriage-new-dvd-sealed_W0QQitemZ200378916486QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_DVD_HD_DVD_Blu_ray?hash=item2ea7839e86&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
 
littlewoman: I did those stuff, compliments, small things like helping her in her degree program, nice dinners at least once a week, but i could have done more, and i want to do more. I'm happiest when i do something for her, and see her eyes light up with joy. Will start with the basics, e.g. listening attentively to her, even though she's repeating herself
happy.gif


junkie: Thanks for the suggestion. Read the reviews, should be a great film, will hunt it down. Seems to me it's a rather obscure movie i.e. most Sporeans have not even heard of it, perhaps you're in a line dealing with the arts/film?
 
losingher,

frankly, i suggest to take it easy. If you guys want to restart. Do it like dating couples, do it without the expectations. The problem with married couples is we became so used and comfortable to each other till it no longer feel the sparks. It feels more like a family member.

Sometimes, you need to take steps back before you can advance again. I'm pretty sure she is trying but feeling really pressurized. It is hard to work this way.

If needed, move out. The idea is being nearby and supportive but at the same time giving her all the space needed. Only without the pressure can she really appreciate with the heart instead of the mind.
 
Agree with Milo - You have to start from Ground Zero, as if it was a brand new relationship, or even take it that you're in the dating stage whereby she is free to date another. I know it is difficult to remove your "coloured lenses" when you look at her knowing well what she's done. But that is probably a better way to manage the emotional experience so that you can face the challenge?
 
losingher,

no lah, i’m just someone who enjoys gd movies… and Bergman’s wks obscure ah? yah rite, this is one of his lesser known films :P… but this is not impt, the thing is Love, Companionship, Loneliness and Marriage r universal themes… it doesn’t make a difference whether u’re a swede or sinkie… we r all humans…

hopefully, u’ll learn a couple of things from it…
 
Reconciliation is so much trickier than forgiveness. Forgivenss can be one-sided. You can choose to forgive someone who has done you wrong without the person going to you to ask for forgiveness. Reconciliation has to be wanted by both parties.
 
its more than just effort and willingness for reconciliation. If the emotions are gone, it can be hard to rekindle that.
 
I'm back in SG. Things are not looking good. On the surface, she is trying, but there are so many things that just doesn't match up. I don't know what she wants...why she appears to be loving and such when with me, but behaved so differently when i'm not around. It scares me just thinking about it...the sweet person that i once knew just changed completely, and i find it hard to accept that.

I don't know how to describe my feelings now - It's like a bottomless bit in the stomach, a dull ache that permeates the body, a lump in the throat, and a general lack of interest in things. I want to make it stop but can't. Sometimes i tremble...donno if its anger, fear, anguish, or what. I've never felt this kind of pain before.
 
losingher, i have the movie if you are interested. the husband thinks it's the dullest movie ever made but then again, he's a swede who does not like ingmar bergman - says all his movies are very depressing. there is a follow-up to this movie titled 'saraband'.

junkie, you also like 'artsy' films arh?
 
"artsy" is a word i used to describe wong kar wai - the emperor has no clothes
happy.gif


but not Bergman, he's one of a kind... he's a Goliath...

and the day he died was a dark day for film buffs worldwide, we lost Antonioni too...
 
i like "wild strawberries", the opening sequence... "the seventh seal" of course... "the virgin spring" which inspired ang lee so much, that he became a director and wes craven to made a nastier version...

btw, is this impt? this thread's not abt movies leh... we should end here
happy.gif
 
yah .. was thinking that after my last post .. ahahaha .. sorry, hijacked this thread a bit since it's hard to find someone who likes ingmar bergman movies .. lol.

losingher, if you see/feel that she is trying, then perhaps you can give her the benefit of the doubt? i know it's easier said than done, especially when feelings and emotions come into play .. but why don't you give it one last try?
 
Over the last few days, she appears to be trying...much harder. I would love to give her the benefit of the doubt and move on, but her behaviour is still not totally in sync with her words e.g. She is still hiding her bank acct statements, i caught him calling her one of the mornings i happen to be on leave, she didn't dare pick up his call while i'm around, but she told me that she has the right to not answer his calls, and that he prob called on work matters (then why don't answer his call?), also one of my luggages at home is missing, she prob took it and did not tell me about it.

I can't fathom why on earth she is making it so difficult for the both of us. If she is taking me for a ride, why is she playing this delay tactic?
If she is for real, why all the little tricks?
 
if after weighing up all info, possibilities and options still get u nowhere,
then i guess u'll hv to trust ur own intuition to guide u now...
 
losingher: I think if this carries on, both of you will be equally tired physically and mentally. You seems to be questioning on her every single move/action, ask yourself, is this healthy? Putting yourself in her shoes, how will she feel? I think this isn't helping the marriage, instead, it is ruining it further.... More and more questions seems to set in and been running in your mindset; regardless hw much she is trying, you seems to be lacking of the confidence that she is doing it coz of love but more on trying to take you for a ride.. This is the woman you have known for 8 yrs... perhaps a little more trust be be helpful at this point in time?
 
I somewhat agree with Little Woman's view. Before you found out about the incident, you were not looking at every single little thing she did or did not do. You do need time to go back to normalcy.

Forgiveness and reconciliation would be an onging process, a journey. Things do not suddenly become OK from the moment you forgive and decide to reconcile. More time and patience is needed to rebuild trust.
 
losingher,

of course, it's gd to be positive, but it's bad to be overly positive... remember u only hv one life to live. and to be a full-fledged person, one gotta walk through the fire -- that is, the trials and tribulations of life...
 
hi Losingher,

You are looking at every little thing with tinted glasses now. It is hard to even continue living together under one roof like this.

Still the same advise. Let go and try to start afresh from ground zero. Move out if u need to keep sanity.
 
Littlewoman, doll, you really think i'm too untrusting? I've asked her to have minimal contact with the other man, asked her to go for marriage counselling, all which she refused. She still continue to SMS, talk to him, and met up with him on the sun when i'm not in town. I really hope that i'm too paranoid too, but doesn't reconciliation have to be premised on both parties willing doing everything possible to make it work. I understand that this may be difficult for her too, but i also need a closure in order to move on. If we simply pretend to get over it, and move on, would the unresolved questions and suppressed emotions come back to haunt us in the future?

That being said, the reason i'm hanging on is because i felt that there is a still a glimmer of hope, and i really appreciate the perspectives which you have offered. I'll try to loosen up.
 


You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top