Seeking opinions from ladies

rite losingher, dun suppress ur feelings. cos u r not merely unhappy, u r suffering for chrissake. why suffer silently? just get it off ur chest!

i believe u truly want to forgive her, that is provided she's committed to foregoing her past doings with the other guy and not continuing it!

the thing is, it's not what she wants or what the other guy wants (she most probably told him u found out abt them already), but what u want and she's unable to give it to u. that's Security. Plenty of Security for u guys to mend the crack...

given the circumstances, it's just natural that u get suspicious... bad thing is, ur prying leads to one lie after another... ur fears and insecurities may subside if u found nothing... such a small gesture, and she can deny u flat!

princess di once said: "There were three of us in this marriage, so it was a bit crowded..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKxC5S-UdO0&feature=related

try saying that to her face and see how she reacts. if there's a slightest hint of hesitation, well then it's time to call it quits...
 


Junkie, i think you're right. Much as i wanted things to turn out otherwise, the things i found out pointed towards the other direction. I've been lying to myself about this, because it's not so painful this way. I guess it's time to bite the bullet and do what i think is right...after having given her so many chances. I hope i'm strong enough.

I knew and confirmed that she is lying to me a lot of things. I believe she is thinking of him more than she is thinking of me. I still can't figure out why she is lying, and appear to be working on the marriage. Why she still hugs me in the mornings.

Perhaps she wanted to have the cake and eat it? Can the ladies shed some light into this kind of behavior?
 
Btw, I've read somewhere that there are non-for-profit organisations that give advice regarding divorce. Can't remember where...can any kind soul point me in the general direction. Thks.
 
Margret, well stuff in general. What are the conditions for adultery, how marital assets are split, etc.

I've enabled my PM. Thks.
 
losingher: Personal perspective, i think you are jus questioning her every single behaviour and action, what makes you think that she is thinking of him more than you? What makes you confirm that she is meeting him when you are in overseas? What I mean is going on dates. I suppose it is rather hard not to keep in touch by being in the same office. Before all these happen, isn't it fine for her to go lunch with him? Isn't all these kinda of playing in your mind? You have sorta of input such assumptions in your mind. Are you sure you are that forgiving? Forgetting and reconcilation works hands in hands. Having that memory and shadow in you, what can she do to telling you that she is over him? By behaving in such ways, you are giving neither parties a place for breathing..and sad to say, the more you will be pushing her to him (if they are still together). From what I see, you will only be feeling more secure if she decides to quit her current job..
 
Why not pick up this book on divorces - "When marriage breaks down: Rights, obligations and division of marital property" by Foo Siew Fong, from the national libraries. The call number is 346.59570166 FOO.
 
littlewoman, i have the means to be "in the know" (as mentioned by junkie). At this juncture, some of my assumptions have became facts. Believe me, it hurt me more than anything, and i'll do whatever possible to make my marriage work, cos i believed in it. Btw, I not so sure about marriages now.

I'm not giving her a hard time at all at home. I pamper her so much...but yet, she still betrayed me in spite of all her reassurances. Despite all these, i can forgive her, but i cannot condone her behavior anymore. I'm human afterall.

Doll, thanks. Sad that i'm going to add on to the national statistics :~(
 
losingher: I see.. I can understand how and what you are going through.. As a matter of fact, whenever I read your reply, it kinda of spells out the moment of truth in one way or another. Have you tried confronting her on the spot? Perhaps it might be better to clarify once and for all; no point leaving it hanging in the air.. It realli take 2 hands to clap to make a marriage works... If she isn't taking any efforts, why not have a good talk on the truth? Noone is right or wrong in a r/s, just that I will choose to believe that it is fated for one's love to end there and then..
 
littlewoman, no point confronting her anymore. Her web of deceit is alreadying spinning out of control, i doubt i can squeeze an iota of truth out of her without first having to present evidence. No evidence, i'm sure i'll get fairy tales...

Thanks for all the support though. I hope i'll be able to pull through, the next few weeks seem so insurmountable.
 
loshingher: if you have made up your mind, go ahead. I think you will know better than anyone what kinda of life do you want to lead. It is never easy to let go of someone you love, but then again, time is the best medicine, though it is always hard at the starting. You will be able to make it through eventually...
 
Losingher, have you decided.....?

To expose her blow by blow can be the beginning of a point of no return. That means you want and are prepared for a spilt.

If you still have a glimpse of hope in reconciliation, you can let her know you do know what is going on generally and feel uncomfortable, and give her some time to think about what she wants.

When an extramarital affair happens to a marriage, there are only three things one can do:
- End marriage in divorce;
- Remain in marriage and close one eye; or
- Work through the crisis together.

The third option is the most challenging and must be wanted by both parties, whereas options 1 and 2 can be carried out by any one party.
 
losingher, have you tried letting her know that you know what she is still doing behind your back? Perhaps she thought that her actions would not be found out by you thus...

You are right on the trust issue though.. you will not trust whatever she says now.
 
I've caught her doing things against what we've agreed upon a few times, and i've told her that i knew, and talked through it with her. Each time i did that, a part of me died. I warned her time and again to take what i said VERY seriously. She always acted coy and tugged at my sleeves to forgive her, which i did. Well, she is still doing those things she thought i didn't know. It's kind of disgusting to hear her lie her way around things i already knew. The level of details she went into to cover up her lies is actually quite amazing
sad.gif
, and she can be quite adamant that it's the truth...and somehow, it's my fault that i don't trust her, and made things difficult for the both of us. How to, when the facts are staring at me right in the eye?

I wondered how she coped with all the stress, having to cook up logical sounding stories all the time, and having to maintain a dual identity. Must be quite difficult, but why she still want to go through all this? Wouldn't it be easier for her to choose, one way or the other, rather than to straddle herself on two boats. This is the part that still puzzled me.

Doll, option 2 is out of the question. Close one eye means this marriage got no meaning already.
 
There is a "certain amount of thrill" in hiding and telling lies.. and in covering up... and this is why affairs can be addictive..

If she is still telling lies right into your face and the fact that you can no longer trust her.. the best is to separate with her for a while..

Why she straddle on two boats? The other party must have filled some of her emotional gaps that you are unable to fill.. but at the same time, you filled up the rest and gave her the emotional balance.. It may be very puzzling but it is not at all difficult for her..

Separate with her for a while. Let her lose you.. to make her realize your value.. or let her lose you forever...
 
hi losingher,

when something u hold dear starts to show it's fakeness, it unsettles u and makes u wanna search deeper... u can't help wanting to tear down the facade just to feel the raw emotions inside... gd or bad, impt thing is - it's not a LIE... and living a lie is living a JOKE.

stay calm as u tackle the issue, do not let the anger gets the better of u... bear in mind that u r not exposing faults but laying all the cards on the table to help u, and hopefully, ur wife, to see things clearer...

well... to be or not to be, let ur inner voice leads u to a better decision...

be strong...

be ur own master
happy.gif
 
Yah... Let her lose you. Most times people really just don't treasure till they lose something. You just have to be more affirmative in your actions since words don't seem to weigh on her.

If she really seeks reconcilation after truly losing you, and you think by then that she really is still worth it, it's not too late. If not, you can be sure that her heart no longer look towards you. Isn't that also good for you that you have a more definite answer.

You being so forgiving time and again only justifies to her that she can manipulate you through her continual lies. No point really. It will only become a never ending cycle that strips you your mental sanity. Very tiring...

Personally I feel that the more important thing towards reconcilation is not the amount of time but the willingness to make things work. It's been almost a month already for you right? Fyi, I had to take a time off of 3 months before I found back myself. But during that time, I kinda totally "lost" contacts with both parties.

Jia you!
 
Seems like the majority suggestion is to separate for a while. My wife came from a broken family and our home is the only place for her...she has no place else to go. As i mentioned earlier, i stay with my parents, and i have to take care of their needs as well. I can't bear to do that now, perhaps later when we're ready to go down the D path.

Just had another one of those heart wretching talks with my wife, yah, it's very tiring and stressful for the both of us, but seems like she is still stuck in base 1 - still love me, but can't bear to let go of her relationship with the other man - to the point where she is literally at his beck and call when she's not together with me. Although she mentioned that the affair is leading no where (the guy won't commit)...she is still doing things to "score" points with him. She say she is very stupid, but thats where she's stuck.

As her husband, the feeling of playing the 2nd fiddle sucks (although she said that i'm not), but the more predominant emotion is a feeling of helplessness that i can't protect her from harm, since it's quite apparent that she is charting a path of self destruction with the other man.
 
Go somewhere with her? A long long holiday tgt where both of u can spend quality time in solitude, do some self reflection and mayb decide on the nxt step tgt?
 
losingher,

ur wife is someone who is not fit to be in a marriage.

release her...

u can't save her, u're not a saint...

u hv only ur life to ans to...

so whatever u do, do it for ur own sake...

learn to love urself more...
 
as it seems to me that u've decided to be physically there for her at this stage...
just note that u have to be mentally/emotionally stronger than right now, no matter how steep the road is gonna be.

cos the current-You is causing the guilt in her to stay in this marriage...
for which, she needs to explore her options much, much deeper than just living in a facade.
 
losingher,

It is not just the pain of suffering when you are with her as she is still emotionally attached to the other guy. Yes, you could possible be able to take it.. but it is not helping matters..

You have to separate from your wife to let her have a sense of direction.. you have to force her to decide - either to be with you or to leave you.

Rent a room for her outside and ask her to leave.. tell her you need space and time.. and is only right that she gives it to you.

I feel this is the only way you have a chance of having her back.. by letting her go and separating with her.. .. of course there is a risk that you will lose her forever.. but surely you don't want to be in the current state you are in forever.. or depending on how long you can take it.. sooner or later you have to make a decision..

Or you can choose to be where you are now.. doing nothing and just talk and talk.. and continue to suffer.. if you are strong emotionally, you can probably last for a while.. but remember, eventually you have to come to a decision.
 
losingher: There is this part of emotions that your wife is unable to let go, and thus, the reason for what she is still hanging on to the guy. It is not an impossibility that she can't let go, jus that we wonder when is the dateline and time limit of when she might be able to wake up entirely. It is not easy to allowing yourself to be and/or standing by her knowing that all such things or facts are happening and I can understand how heartbreaking it is for you. However, you can't deny that you can't bear to let go of what the both of you had shared over the years as well. Why not giving it one last shot? I am not saying that she shld be forgiven time and time, again and again, but at least, tell her straight that this is the last chance, the last dateline and if she still breaks it, I guess it is time for you to move on. She can't let go; but you have the choice to let go, the choice is in your hands, why leave it to others ya? Love is never a sympathy, you have to decide for yourself is this the kinda of life you want to lead? At times, we have to be harsh in order to be kind..
 
I put myself into your wife's shoes and frankly, it's not that hard to imagine why she "still love me, but can't bear to let go of her relationship with the other man"..

You are the anchor that she holds onto while she try her luck to get her feet onto a free boat. If she manage to land into the boat, then she'll let go of the anchor. If the boat drift away, the anchor will still be here. She knows that no matter what she does to you, you will not leave her. She just need to coo her way thru..

Qn is: Is that what u want her to regard you as? The anchor?

Letting go of one or the other can def be done, as all of us here would know, so long as we are driven to make that decision. Since there is no driving force, why make any decision at all, rite..

Do you really think that she still loves you like she said? If she does, then how does she feel about that guy?

Fact that "she is literally at his beck and call when she's not together with me" and "the affair is leading no where (the guy won't commit)...she is still doing things to "score" points with him" tells me that she feels more towards him than you and she's willing to let go of you as soon as the guy is willing to commit, isn't it?

Knowing that her r/s w him is not gg anywhere yet she's willing to risk your marriage to her... I dunno, but it sounds like she already knows what she wants. I dun think anyone would wanna risk losing something that they love for a brief moment of ecstasy ba...

Worse is, knowing that "can't bear to let go of her relationship with the other man" and that "the affair is leading no where (the guy won't commit)...she is still doing things to "score" points with him. She say she is very stupid, but thats where she's stuck" and she is hoping to get your support thru this phase, I think she is outright selfish and does not respect your marriage at all.

Dun think about how she'll survive w/o u, be it got roof no roof, cuz it's all her choice. She chose the path, she has to eat the shit that comes along the way too.

I feel for you, man... I go with sm's suggestion on renting a room for her and asking her to leave.

If you choose to carry on to shelter her, to be the anchor for her, then I can only foresee more miseries ahead for you until such time when she either decide to come ard or make that break. And hopefully you will be strong enuf to overcome the heartache.


Valerie, I dun think gg somewhere together will help since it's obvious to TS that she has not let go of the other guy. If they went for that trip and she carried on with the contact with the other guy, I think TS will be even more miserable than now.
 
this is something i hate to point out. but what breakingfree mentioned is true...
looks like the one to decide the fate of ur marriage is the 3rd party...

if he TAKES her, she DUMPS U
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junkie, it's ok, i surmised as much.

breakingfree, those were precisely my thoughts and conclusions. During our talk, I chided her for having no respect for the marriage, yadda yadda. If she carry on like that, i may opt to engage PI services and settle this quickly.

littlewoman, yes...we shared great memories, and i look forward to more with her, now that i've also learnt a lesson or two in life. As you've went through a similar situation and came around with great results, i hope things turn out like that for us too. i will give it one last shot.
 
Hope I did not lead your thoughts into that direction w my earlier post.

Ultimately, we are the only ones who can decided how to live our own lives. If we make the decision to live it miserably, we cannot blame anyone, not even the person who is making our lives a living hell, cuz we allowed it to happen.

As someone has quoted somewhere in this forum, "we have to love ourselves b4 we can love others". If you r sure that you hv done your best in this marriage, then learn to love yourself ba. If you r still uncertain, try again until you can try no more.
 
losingher,
perhaps you are too focused on trying to minimise her contact with the other guy, and not focusing enough on trying to helping her to fall in love with you again. try to recall what she saw in you 8 years ago, and be that person whom she fell in love with enough to commit her lifetime to. look back at your happy times, and try to understand what was it that made her feel happy and safe with you.
 
Stardust, i can't do it. I can't pretend to be loving and such when i know that she is constantly lying to me. I'm not speculating, i know. Now i'm not even sure that she is for real when she tells me she loves me. I feel disgusted with her.

littlewoman, so much for the last shot. She really used it up fast. Today, she lied again about being in office while she secretly met up with him again. I found out by calling her on her HP and asking her where she was. She described in such great detail that she is very hot, in her company store house packing stuff, etc. I then called her office recept to ask for her...well, as i expected, the recept said that she had left office already. I called her and asked her where she is, and i told her that i'm giving her one last chance to be truthful and tell me, she chose to keep quiet. I hung up on her. My heart is already stabbed so many times by her...i've lost hope.
 
You know what, yesterday she just had a tiff with the other man and she probably felt disillusioned with her affair. Well, the reason she quarrelled with him was because she attempted to check on his girlfriend using his phone, and as a result, his girlfriend found out about his new phone number. She claimed she "accidentally" dialed her number. Yah right, he don't believe her, neither do i. Then i supposed they quarrelled. All of a sudden, she said she has decided...he seem to be using her, and there's no future with him. She say she want to be with me...and can see a future with me. I naively thought that perhaps everything may turn out well after all.

Today i get this shit. I've not used vulgar language for a long time, and today i nearly wanted to hurl some expletives at her, then i calmed down & told myself that she is not worth it. Sorry, i'm venting.
 
Sorry if I'm being blunt but she didn't seem like she's gonna give up on that guy. Put it this way, she wants the best of both worlds and when things are not rosy on the other side, she'll run into your arms. What for? Do you want to be her spare tire?

We all make mistakes and learn from it. No one is a saint. Why don't you move on and start afresh? Learn to let go of her completely. You can't let go bit by bit just like she said she wil forget him slowly. It's hard I know but only you can help yourself. No one else can.

Perhaps until she realized that she has lost you then she'll wake up. On the other hand, perhaps I'm giving you false hopes in the hope that one day she will return to your arms and be yours alone. If she can't leave him bcos they've been together for sometime or due to whatever crap reasons like work relations, don't tell me she has no feelings for you at all? How many years? 4 years, correct me if I'm wrong?
 
My counsellor told me something before "Only when you let go totally, then perhaps the reconcilation can truly kick in"
 
losingher, she's only making use of you. Don't be a fool. In future, when you are down and out, sick and old, would you see any day with her? If you see no future with her, stop the marriage now. If you still see a future with her, be TRUTHFUL about it: DO YOU REALLY SEE A FUTURE WITH HER???
 
Thks folks...pls be brutal and wake me up from this. I have a soft spot for her and tend to give her more and more chances. I'm choking back my tears now, cos i'm letting go.

I can't believe the person described above is the person i married. She is now out, happily enjoying herself, while she knows that i'm very down and sad that our marriage has turned out like that. She pushed all the blame on me, scolding me why i called her office and "malu" her. I fail to understand why the act of her husband calling her office and looking for her will "malu" her. She say she is also struggling...while i know she is having the time of her life with him. Sharing winks, secrets, sweet nothings.

So much for love. I feel that i've just wasted 8 years of my life on her. I will be the husband i promised to be till the end and not make things difficult for her. I hope she will have the decency to reciprocate.
 
i suppose then its time to let go. the grass always seems greener on the other side. only a person who is truly happy and contented can appreciate the field that they are in the moment. i suppose then she's neither happy nor contented anymore.

you havent wasted any time. i'm sure you two have had great times together in these past 8 years. learn from these times spent and then lavish your love on a woman that is truly yours.

its normal to feel angry and frustrated when you have put in efforts and yet the other party doesnt reciprocate. if you felt that you've done your part, then take heart and start working on letting go. only when you've closed this chapter then you can start on the next chapter of your life.
 
losingher,

Why you want her to reciprocate. We lavish our love on our loved ones because we love them and want them to be happy. If she does not reciprocate then that is the end.

8 years is not wasted. There must be sweet memories .. Let go ba.. find a new life for yourself and when you have let go and move on, you will find a new happiness..

I told you. The best thing you can do for yourself and for her is to be separated from her .. let her be.. she chooses her life.. and you can choose yours.
 
losingher,

u can stop checking on her from now on...

the reason i kept pressing u to pursue the truth is simple... tear down the facade to see the real state of ur marriage, and ur standing in this love triangle. now u know how much u really meant to her...

well get a grip and do what is best for urself, u gotta start working on it now...

look forward, not back...
 
Losingher,

It seemed like the hardest thing now for you to think and even act practically.

No matter how hard we "beat" you, will you act upon it?

I believe soon there will reach a point where you cannot tolerate anymore. You really wanna wait till that point? Things may end up being more bitter than it is now.

I can finally understand why my counsellor told me that sometimes letting go can bring forth reconcilation.
 
losingher: that's mus be really hard. I can understand the pain and the dilemna that you have / is going through. Yes, I have been in a similiar situation and the pain for both sides are not easy to bear.. As a matter of fact, there is no right or wrong in a r/s; that's how I look and view the whole point. It is jus a matter if the love happens at the right or inappropriate time? There is nothing wrong to loving one person and thus, dun question yourself why did you fall in love and marry her in the 1st place. The basic point is people change. It is very hard to focus in rebuilding a r/s, love and marriage if she can't let go; this is also the harsh cruel reality that she has to face. From what I see, I don't understand what does she means by saying that she seeing a future to be with you etc, indeed being a husband, both of you should have a good future together, if not for what had happened. Friend, I am not trying to advise anything drastic coz the ultimate decision lies within you; you have to be the one to deciding what you want now. Like I mentioned in my previous posts, she might still be floating, but you can be the one calling the shots. Go for a short getaway on your own and think with a calm mind before deciding on anything. Follow your mind and heart..
 
I know of people who have wised up and became a better person/husband after their wives left them or have an affair. I personally felt that no matter what your spouse did, it doesn't give you an excuse to commit adultery. Put it bluntly, a person wants to cheat bcos he/she wants to. If he/she will cheat, he/she will, a matter of time.

But I guess it's really stupid if you're having an affair with another guy who's two timing you, having a girlfriend in the open whereas you're in the dark. Well, it's up to her.

If you chose to let go, you will find someone deserving. It's painful but no point weeping over someone who DOESN'T have eyes for you, can't even be bothered about how you feel. 4 years into the marriage, such things happen already. Isn't it a blessing in disguise both of you are childless? It will be more agonizing. Isn't it even better despite knowing the painful truth, she chose to ignore your feelings and esteem?

Do whatever you need to, in order to have a clean break. One day you will look back and pet yourself on the shoulder for letting go bcos you will find someone better, much better.

She's not worth it! Tell yourself you deserve someone better.
 
Yesterday, tears rolled down my cheeks as i laid on the bed, and watched her punching away at the keyboard. I've stopped talking to her about the relationship as it is pointless to do so anymore.

I realised that those were not tears from being betrayed or fear of the future ahead, but tears out of the heartache of realising the kind of person she had became. This morning, i woke up, and just by looking at her going about doing her things as if nothing happened, tears rolled down again.

She noticed and came over to ask me what happened...duh...and as i started to relate to her my thoughts, i turned round and saw her plucking her armpit hair. How appropriate, my tears dried up immediately.

I know what i have to do, but i do get weak sometimes and still want to try for reconciliation. It's been 1+ months since i discovered, and i'm ready to take some tentative steps forward in a life w/o her.

I'm going for a swim. Thks everyone!
 
"She noticed and came over to ask me what happened... as i started to relate to her my thoughts, i turned round and saw her plucking her armpit hair"

that's ludicrous... what an anticlimax :P
 
Yah junkie...it's like someone is drowning and shouting for help, and then the lifesaver paused to take a pee break first.

Anyway, I'm glad that i took your advice and seized control of the situation. I probably reached this point much faster. I'm not sure how things will develop going forward, but at least, there's progress.
 
losingher, it seems to be that she is enjoying your change now.. As in, enjoying your fullest attention since you mentioned that you might be lacking that previously in this marriage and she is secretly happy that you are giving her much more attention than before..

As many of the others have suggested to give both of you a break, I really second that..
Ask yourself, you used to neglect her a lot until you realised that she is having an affair, than you realised how much you loved her..
Now. Will she realised how much she loves you after you dispearing from her life?
Its a bet.. Either things will be much better OR it will be gone forever..

But my take is, ask yourself, are you trying to patch things up with her smply becase you love her OR it could be because you cannot stand being defeated and the fact that your life betrayed you. There is a difference you know? Many people failed to realise it could be the latter.

Anyway back to my point.. If she decides to leave that man and be with you again, will things still be the same? Can you still love her as much as before without thinking of what she did with the man?
If you can't, why are you wasting time now?
 
Rebeana, this issue of me wanting to "win" this was raised by my wife, and it's one of those things she claimed to be worried of. I'm not sure what i can do to convince her otherwise. I mentioned that i've learnt a lesson or 2 in life, and neither can i convince her too.

From her perspective, i have neglected her. But i can honestly tell you that i really think the world of her, and did everything in good faith for our marriage. I probably got lazy sometimes too. But a lot of things i did was misconstrued by her... Both of us agreed that communication was the problem, but it's seem to be too late, as she is too emotionally attached to the other man.

Anyway, i don't think this is about winning or losing. Winning doesn't make me happy. Having someone to share the ups and downs of life, is how i define happiness, and when i married her, she is that someone, besides my family.

I can't predict the future, but i think that as long as we're committed, we can go thru the thick and thin in life together.
 
losingher: your reply always wakes me up in a way; from what you said and your inner thoughts, it makes me look in depth of what my HB had did and is still doing for me as well. Had an argument with him last Sat on some issues; he told me the same thing as well; "But i can honestly tell you that i really think the world of you, and did everything in good faith for our marriage". I feel realli touched when I hear that and at that moment, thought of your case. Told him about your "story" and the reply was: One will always be floating unless efforts are made with dertermination and peversance. Else, there will not be any chances of reconcilation as there will not be an ending. Both of you shared the same happiness before, but will the same simple things mean happiness to both of you again? Am glad that you kinda of pick up your life slowly, again, think carefully before any further decisions, we have to love ourselves in order to love another person more.
 


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