Innocent flirting?

stardust,

actually there is no need to play hide-and-seek with alot of stuffs, unless the wife has always been a paraniod freak abt every freaking issue, or the husband is really guilty of certain stuffs. otherwise, lying out of convenience from time to time is really possible for each and everyone of us but the intention is perhaps simple - to Avoid certain sorts of nagging from partners.

not trying to be a wet blanket again, but despite the talks, i believe u also gotta keep your eyes open with certain issues - after all his unnecessary lies that kinda casted a different light on himself. well, i hope he understood where u're coming from.

btw, how's the little one doing?
happy.gif
 


hi vios,
yeah i understand.. i'm not a saint too, and sometimes i tell little lies to avoid nagging from him as well..=) its just really bad timing, difficult pregnancy leaving me feeling really insecure, his long working hours leaving me feeling lonely and neglected, plus these lies appeared so conveniently with the woman's existence.. looking back, i can understand why i got so paranoid.. =) like you said, i hope he can too...

the little one is becoming more aware of his surroundings and more alert to what's happening around him. he's also starting to show his true colours.. =) doesnt like to have his diapers changed, and doesnt like to be left alone, loves a back or leg massage. i'm enjoying every little bit of him. sometimes i'm torn between hoping he'll grow up soon, and wishing he wouldnt grow up too fast.. know what i mean? =)
 
hi guys,
would like to relate something and ask for opinions.

recently we went out to dinner, and during dinner he answered a call and the moment he spoke i knew it was that waitress. he turned away to speak and spoke softly as if afraid i would overhear. but he didnt leave the table lah.

i let it go because he already told me she would call him every now and then. but that night he forgot to switch off his phone, and of course i couldnt resist looking at it to confirm my thoughts. he'd deleted all calls pertaining from her or her daughter, but he didnt know there was a page where all calls and smses were recorded. he had calls and smses from their two numbers the most for the past few days that the log captured. i woke him up and asked him about it, he said they just wanted to ask his opinion about schools to choose. that was obviously an excuse because i already knew that the choosing of schools had ended long ago. i told him i cannt accept him staying in contact with them anymore, i dont care whether its innocent or not, because its playing with my mind and i find it grossly inappropriate. why are they coming to him for advice? and in what position is he giving them advice? what do they see him as? they said he didnt know but he was just helping as a friend because he really pitied them. i asked him how long is this going to last? they've wrecked havoc on me, my life, my mind since july. if he didnt think they were important, why couldnt he just drop them from his life instead of keeping them there knowing that i was suffering - be it a reasonable or unreasonable suffering. why are they more important than i? i didnt care about being reasonable or not anymore.

he countered saying that i should know that he's a responsible guy, and there's really nothing shady about them. he said his conscience is clear and therefore he doesnt find the need to clarify why he's still friends with them. when i asked him what they said to each other, he said he doesnt remember and he doesnt like to be interrogated. i told him i dont care, i just dont like it. i was so distraught, and i dont really remember now what we said to each other after that. but i do remember wanting to return home to my parents so badly. i told him i wanted to go home so much, and i told him he doesnt know how to love me, how to take care of me and how to protect me.

the next day he sent me an sms asking me not to cry anymore, that he really loves me and he will not let me suffer any more.

i didnt reply because i only saw the message hrs after i receved it. and anyway, i didnt know how to respond, because i find that i've tuned myself to expect another scene like this in the near future. he's made so many empty promises, why should this be any different? after the first time i found out, he promised to stop contacting her. then i find out he takes her out to his ktv outings. after promising he wouldnt contact her again, i find out he still receives calls from her. he said he cant control it if she calls. then i find out he's close to her daughter, and even took them out for dinner. again he promised to stop. then i find out they can sms/call each other more than 10 times in a day for the past few days, what more the past month? every morning without fail at 7-8 plus, either one of them would call him. that goes for every evening and night.

i didnt even ask him to promise me to stop contacting them, this time, because i dont think he can do it, and i've learnt very well the pain of empty promises now.

would like the opinion of forumers here,
have i gone too far in making a mountain out of a molehill? can his involvement in her and her daughter really be acceptable? am i too narrow minded? i cant seem to think clearly and be logical, my mind seems to be clouded. not that i'm pushing blame but i think its really the post natal hormones that are wreckin havoc.
 
"he said he cant control it if she calls."

It's just another excuse. He can easily change his hp no or block her no, then she won't be able to contact him anymore.
 
Stardust, no woman should go through what you have gone through so far.

Totally agree with Green. She chose to call, but he can choose not to answer.

Do not tolerate things that a wife should not have to.
 
Hi Stardust

From your above post, it looks to me that his words are no longer held with credit and the trust and respect for your feelings is no longer important. You mentioned before that he seldom has time to spend with your family, what the hell is he doing in someone elses' life? Be it the waitress or someone else. He is a family man responsible for the family you and him have created.

I am pregnant and I know the outburst of hormones that makes us go cranky at times but my husband is always there to support my cranky moments. I am shit scared of child birth but I know my husband will go through it with me. The role of husband is critical during pregnancy and post-pregnancy. Yes, hormones do play a part but as long as your husband is there for you and give you all the assurance and love, i doubt you will be feeling this way. You will feel tonnes better.

What's the point of playing detective in a marriage? Either you close your eyes or go to the bottom of it. You asked him hoping him to tell you truth but do you believe his words?

I would be really tired if I were you. I have no stamina to let something like this go on and on and on and on.

To answer your question, No way in the world I find it acceptable for my husband to be involved with elses' domestic issue to this extent and with the knowledge that I am not comfortable from the start.

I would always discuss stuff with my hubby for his opinion. When I was in Singapore for visit without him, I asked if I could meet my ex, he says he is not comfortable with it so I did not proceed. It's too easy doing things behind his back, but I know that I can't face him later if i do things behind his back (whether innocent or not, that's not the point, the point is he dun like it)) & I love him and respect his trust for me so much to do anything to hurt him or to betray his trust. Your hubby should care enough for your feelings & to protect your emotions especially knowing your rather than to let you go with your emotional rollercoaster.
 
stardust,

I felt very strongly for u when u 1st posted about the problems you had wif ur hub. The emotional turmoil was so so familiar. But after a couple of postings, it became apparent tat you seem so determined to maintain your family unit that nothing else matters. When the alarm bells started ringing, u chose to turn a blind eye & convince urself tat it is really ur own paranoid fault. Is it really? It is not possible to get facts to support a decision all the time. Sometimes our gut feeling can be impeccable. Stop micro-analysing every situation and answer basic questions. Are u happy? I mean majority of the time, not once a week when he decides to pop home for family time. Wat kind of mother do u think u can be when u're an emotional wreck? Why is he contributing to it instead of helping u to maintain a happy family? Is he really as responsible as he claims? Wat about his responsibility to u & the kids?

I believe u have the answers. U juz insist on waiting it out for the problem to be solved. It can be an option to take, except tat u obviously cannot handle the emotions that come wif it. Ask urself again. How long are u willing to tolerate tis? He has no incentive to take action either way since u are more afraid of losing him and hence taking on all the blame.
 
hi all!
thank you so much for your honest views.

green and kelsen,
it woulod be near to impossible for him to change his number because its his livelihood. in fact, i asked him yday if she called him, he said yes but he didnt answer her calls. i wonder how long this wil last. i cant possibly be asking him everyday if she called and if he answered,right?

avocadoaddict,
congrats on your pregnancy!
that's precisely what i threw back to him. - if there were a guy who's obviously interested in me, and hubby indicated that he's not comfortable with it and i still insist that there's nothing between us and still continue to be friends with that guy without taking in acc his feelings, how would he feel.

you know, i was in such emotional pain that i actually welcomed labour pains when labour started. each wave of pain a contraction brought on was like a channel to ease my mental torture. i felt that my 2nd labour was more painful than the first, perhaps because this time even when i was in excruciating pain, i was thinking of how lonely i felt, how neglected, and even thinking about that woman and her daughter, about hubby taking her out and to dinner, and what role she had assigned him in her life, and what role hubby thought he was playing in hers. i wanted to rant and rave and tell him to stop torturing me but all that came out were agonizing screams and cries.

hi laundry woes,
you've got it right - its been a long time since i'd seen a happy face when i looked in the mirror. even if i wanted to, i dont think i have it within me to tolerate any longer, and that's why i told him to end it all, i dont care if she's just a normal friend, whatever. just end it. i told him she's been making my life hell, how can he still be friends with her?and if he still insists on carrying on, then i'm leaving. i know i shouldnt be making ultimatums, but i've reached the end of my tether. i've been passive long enough, i'm high time i got my old life back.
i can tell he trying his very best to make it up to me .. if you ask me am i happy now - i'll say no, i'm not. i'm just exhausted. he needs to put in alot more effort to build up my happiness again. i'll place my trust in him just this once more - i hope i'll learn to be happy, really happy again soon.
 
stardust, good for u! I'll be honest. I did not know if it was an ultimatum or did I really mean it then when I 1st asked for a divorce. I spent months preparing for it. 6 months to be exact tat I went through the same emotional hellhole. I reached my limit when the days, the minutes, the seconds started to crawl by ever so slowly. I juz wanted it to end so badly, even if I had to give up the hub. Of coz the withdrawal symptoms were inevitable. But I dare say I'm happier today. Way happier than I ever was in a marriage whereby I wasn't a priority.

Look on the bright side. I see a timeout as a good breather. It gives him time to set his priorities rite if he really cherishes u & ur family. If not, there is no point hanging onto him. Even if heartbreak should happen, there is always the light at the end of the tunnel. I wish u all the best.
 
stardust,

the key of your post is found in your last para...

"would like the opinion of forumers here,
have i gone too far in making a mountain out of a molehill? can his involvement in her and her daughter really be acceptable? am i too narrow minded? i cant seem to think clearly and be logical, my mind seems to be clouded. not that i'm pushing blame but i think its really the post natal hormones that are wreckin havoc."

- u have been brainwashed by your marriage to question yourself First, then believe yourself to be at fault First, before u even start. then awhile later u think think n u realise actually u not really wrong... and then he does something n u quickly forgive him.

it'll continue...
 
laundry woes,
i think we can only make a move when we finally realise enough is enough..i dont want to be the one standing in the back.. if he wants me, this marriage and our family, then he's going to have to win it back. i no longer want to sit and believe that i'm important, that i matter, and to make excuses for him. he can jolly well show it and prove it to me.

powder,
not necessarily this marriage. whenever i encounter some problems, i'd automatically consider my part in it first, and how i've contributed to it before looking at others' roles. i cant deny that i was the one at fault for poking my nose into his phone, his privacy. evidence may point to the murderer, but it cant be used in a court if the evidence is illegally obtained and the murderer goes off scott free, isnt that how the law works?

i know it is not right to force him to cut off this friend from his life, and i feel like big bitch having to resort to this, but unfortunately its the only way i can find my peace again.
 
like i've said before, it's always good to explore our part First... but when u find that the other is party is at fault, partially or in large part... why do u need to find excuses for the person constantly? u're too keen to take on the fault and the blame...

trust me, i know this Complex very very well becos i've dealt with it for the earlier part of my life... to always blame myself above all else. But there comes a time where u must realise that when u have done all u can and u have extended all the goodwill u can... how much more do u wanna stretch yourself?

the facts are there staring u in the face time n again, but the one blurring it is none other than yourself... to offer yourself more space to deny or deny entirely... it is not abt who they are, but who they are to your hubby n why u're competing for love n sanity?
 
Hi Stardust

Thanks for your kind wishes, im halfway there for full-term...
happy.gif
To say that you actually welcomed labour pain tells me how painful you already were inside. The physical labour pain is nowhere near your inner pain.

You should know the main source of the pain, it's from your husband. Not that woman. Think about it. If your husband cares for your feelings, he won't allow such thing to happen or even continue. I wonder what is in his head when he says he loves you and allow you to go through such pain. It just doesn't make sense to me.

When my grandma abuses my mum, i blamed my dad, not my grandma. Cos if he had stand up and protected my mum, she won't have to endure abuses from her. Now, it's up to us to speak up for my mum and protect her cos we love her. Of cos i love my dad, but he's bloody useless when it comes to handling such domestic conflict.

Please think again, it's your husband who allows you to go through such torture. The source of your pain is from your husband, not third party.

It is your choice and ultimate decision what kind of emotions track you want to be on for the next week, month, or year(s). What do you want to see yourself in the near future? How long more do you want to allow yourself to go through such emotional wreck. It's all up to you to seek your own happiness and rainbow. Your kiddy and new born bub can feel your emotions, it's hard to hide from the little ones.

God bless.
Cheers.
 
powder,
i really refuse to stand in the background now and i've made myself heard. whether or not he responds is entirely up to him. if i and our children are as important to him as he claims,then it shouldnt be difficult at all to stop contacting them or responding to their attempts to contact him. if he finds it difficult, then it'll be an indication of how he truly feels. these were the exact words i smsed him. i'm hopeless at vrebal communication so therefore i chose to sms instead.

this morning he left his phone on the table, and i didnt even bother to stop and think if i should look. i just took it up and a call was coming in from a female - i guessed it was her other daughter, and i asked him who this person was (This number also appeared lots of times in his log when i checked a couple of days ago) and i was right. i told him she called, and he asked how i knew. i didnt even hesitate to tell him i looked at his phone when weeks ago i'd have felt guilty about it.

avocadoaddict,
yes, you're absolutely right. any sort of physical pains would have been far easier to manage than the sort of emotional pain i felt. this morning my hubby said to me if she liked him and keeps calling him, what could he do? i simply stated the obvious - dont answer, dont reply. i told him that if there were anyone in my life that was causing him such distress that i'm facing now, i wouldnt hestitate to cut the person out of my life because i love and respect him, and to me nothing matters more to me than him and how he feels. he promised never to leave me but i told him that wasnt the promise i wanted.i told him straight i want him to promise to cut off all contacts with them, and do it, not promise to do it and then still keep in contact with them behind my back.

i've become an expert in hiding my emotions, believe me when i say that no one would believe what i went through for the last 6 months.
 
or u can choose to blank out the whole episode n just accept that it's always gonna be part of his life, for now or for a long time. and just live your life the way u think u should... else it's painful being in limbo...
 
how to blank out? i wish i could.. but i am living my life the way i think i should.. its tough trying to forget though. its consuming my thoughts and i do try to control my own mind, but its so difficult. yes he's given me his promise to stop all contacts, but let's face it, his promises have a spotty record, and i just cannot seem to let my guard down. i'm still expecting to see evidence of contact. save from me asking him outright to give me the pin for his phone, and me checking it all the time, there;s really no way of knowing. he'd blow his top for sure because even i know this is a horrible breach of trust and privacy.and even if he allows me to do it, what sort of marriage would this turn into? i really do need to refocus my energies elsewhere, and i fear i require anti depressants now because my mood lately has become so deflated.
 
he bought me a super expensive diamond ring that day and surprised me with it. i was stunned because he seldom does this surprise thing for me.

i went out the next day to someplace to buy a wallet for him, and guess how coincidental it was when i spotted the exact same ring i found him with months ago which he said was some sort of magnetic ring which brings luck and he bought it at 20-30 bucks. the ring i saw costs 149 and it was just the run of the mill, couple stainless steel ring. it was exactly the same, down to the B logo inside.

i told him what i saw, and he still stuck to his story about it. so fine - i let it go. he can be telling the truth,or lying about it.there was no way i can find out.

he was out partying on christmas eve after having dinner with us and then went on to a chalet with his colleagues. he didnt return that night but he'd told me about it already. the next day on christmas day, i looked at his email and found a booking receipt for a hotel for christmas eve. who wants to try imagining how i felt?

i called him and asked him about it and he said he booked it for his colleague who's having a tryst and didnt want his wife to find out. when he came home later that day, i asked him who that friend was, and he told me - this was a person who appeared outwardly to be a loving dad and doting husband. hubby told me then he wouldnt be so stupid to book a hotel and have the receipt sent to an email add that i could easily get access to. i then told him to try and imagine how i after seeing the ring as part of a couple ring,and then this! he said he didnt even know where he placed that ring, and why would that woman give him a ring for?

when i wanted to enter his email again, he'd changed the password.
 
he's surrounded by ppl who treats love as trash, treats marriage vows as a load of crap. they pay lip service to loving their family but they're the ones who're hurting the ones they claim to love and protect. this particular friend who'd gotten him to book the room once said that he's very protective of his wife and would stand up to anyone who bullies her, but i'd bet she'd rather be bullied a thousand times over than to have him cheat on her all the time - isnt that the greatest bully and hurt of all? he has two teenage children which his wife sarificed her career for to bring up well, and what did she get in return? i'm so afraid i'd end up like her one day.

i know its no use worrying about things that are out of my control. if he wants to cheat and lie about it, there is no way i can find out. i know i shouldnt live my life thinking of the worst, and i know that i should learn to protect my own interests and those of my sons.

i'm very disillusioned with the whole concept of love and marriage and trust. do i really have the one special guy who's trying true to me despite all the tempations and the peer pressure? or do i have a wolf in sheep's clothing? how can i know?
 
b4 Nov 28, Tiger Woods has this perfect image of an all american role model - a dutiful son, loyal family man and star athlete...

now, Tiger is squeaky-clean no more... he has got a new name - Cheetah...

and the wife knew it all along...

so tell me, who brought him to his downfall?
 
he left his phone on this morning and of course i looked at it. is anyone surprised that they're still in contact even after him promising me that he'd stop?

he even spent 23 minutes on the phone with her last night when he dropped us off and he went to park the car.

the same fight, the same words, the same scene played itself again. i really wanted to end it, but the ironic thing was there wasnt a knife at home sharp enough for me to end it once and for all. i tried so many times to slit my wrist but all i got were just angry red lines which refused to bleed a single drop. can't even die, why am i so useless?

he said he already wanted to stop contacting them, but every time he came home i'd have this suspicious look at my face and that made him even more determined to keep the contact going since he was upset with me and did it on purpose. i've become my own jailer.

he kept repeating that there's nothing going on between them and that they're just friends, and i'm being unreasonable.

he called back just now to promise he will never answer their calls anymore. how many more times can i tell him i believe him the last time?

i've lost faith in love and forever after. i failed to leave this time, but if this goes on sooner or later i'll succeed.

how to build up faith once its gone? how to build up trust again? i'll be living in an empty shell that may seem to be fine outwardly, but inside i've run dry. whatever love has turned into possiveness and obsession. how to regain unconditional love? how to fill a broken heart with happiness again? any happiness will never last because the heart is no longer fit to hold it.
 
harlow,

u walk into KFC everyday and complain of eating the same food and wishing to have hokkien mee, sago-honeydew and ice-kachang?

u're going to that same point of blaming everything except that husband of yours again. at the end of it, same conclusion - he is faultless and u kicked up a ruckus, what's new?

at his age, u still actually excuse him by blaming his frens n influences from them... u ever thought that he could be the main guy telling his frens all how to cheat their wives n get away with it?

time n again, u choose to believe the best of him, the worst of your reactions... yet u wanna find out the worst of him, and believe the best of your judgment n belief... u've gone thru more contradictions in the marriage than most of us go thru in life... so what's next?

u are not disillusioned by life n love, u are disillusioned by your own applications towards life n love. u are a great person, but u do not have a great understanding of yourself. u are an understanding person, but u do not give yourself a chance to understand yourself. instead u choose to go in n out of this relationship verbally. u jump at every chance to disbelieve n suspect, Yet u also jump at every chance to re-believe and restore...

u Either BELIEVE in this marriage u chose, or u Lose all faith and leave it.

u think life has many decades for u to live? yday i lay in my bed, and i envision death.. it was scary. i dun know what i'd bring with me, and if i would still remember my wife, mum, my baby n toddler... i dun know if i will even remember my frens and whether memories of all whom i love will be with me after i leave this world... so i am very well gonna make the best of my life, every christmas must be filled with joy, everyday must be filled with happiness...

i hope u'll finally understand.
 
did u just talk abt suicide? the kids how? i seriously dun understand why all of u can be so focal on a relationship that u can be so selfish to your parents, children, family n frens...
 
it's not worth it for you to end your life over this... you still have your children to take care...

i feel that what is happening to you now is a vicious cycle... the more you try to control your hubby, the more he will do the things that you tell him not to... i experienced something similar once, and i really regret now why i didn't see the light earlier...

if you want to repair the damage in your marriage, believe me, just bo chap your hubby... try to live your life without him... he will come back to you when he realises that you can live very well without him... however, the more you try to do spotchecks on him, the more he will feel stressed and the more you will push him away...

i know it's hard to relax when you are filled with so many doubts, but please try to... meet up with your good friends, make new friends, hire a good babysitter and spend some time outside... those are the things that will make you attractive to your husband again... put yourself in his shoes, would you like a spouse who is constantly checking your handphone or email all the time, and always looking at you suspiciously?

like other posters, i believe that your hubby is at fault... i think your feelings are very justified... but if he doesn't want to change, what can you do? if he doesn't want to stop contact with that woman, you cannot force him to. the more you force him, the more he can't wait to get away from you...

hope you can make the right decision... try to stay happy for yourself and for your children... i believe that if your hubby loves you, as he says he does, he will come round eventually and distance himself from that woman and her daughter...

also, i am sure you love your hubby... but what does love mean to you? love is not about control but about understanding... checking emails, checking hp, telling him who he can contact... etc. these are not signs of love, but signs of control... even if he is in the wrong, please try to let him be and wait for him to come round... i know you hurt badly now, but even if it tears your heart apart, try to focus your attention on your children, and have faith in him...

having said all that, of course, you shouldn't let him bully you... your feelings are justified... it is understandable from what happened that you would feel this way... but if your choice is to repair your marriage, be strong by yourself and don't behave like a needy woman... and please, don't do anything foolish... you sound like a very loyal wife... it would be his loss if he gives you up and i think he knows that too... i hope both of you can work things out... good luck...
happy.gif
 
powder,
i know i deserve what i brought upon myself. i just find myself spiralling out of control whenever something turns up. its like i'm standing outside of myself watching myself crumble. i've no idea where the strong and confident person in me has gone to. my moods are swinging so violently that i cant even recognize myself.. just last night before i went to sleep i felt contented to my toes as my bb slept beside us while hubby was surfing the net and i was watching tv. but at 3am when i woke up to feed bb, i suddenly got a very strong feeling that something wasnt right, and at 6am when i got up to feed bb again, hubby's phone was turned on and left unattended while he slept. it wasnt even a conscious decision to check it and also, i already knew what i'd see before i saw it. her number and her daughters' numbers incoming and outgoing, smses throughout the day. and the 23 min conversation he'd had with her while he went to park the car. parking and walking back would take, what, 10 mins, and he'd rather stand somewhere to talk to her than return home. bravo lady, you're powerful and important enough to drive a wedge between a 13 year relationship.

you're right, i have my children. and no one is as selfless as my parents who would go out of their way to do anything for me, and they'd do anything to prevent me from getting hurt, which is more than what my husband can do - he's the one who has knowingly inflicted such hurt upon m-time and time again. but i'm not going to lie still and let myself be battered anymore.

do i still love him - yes, so much. does he still love me - yes i believe so. would he break his promise again this time - i'm not sure, and i'll try not to bother. i hope my resolutions wouldnt waver in one of my mood downturns.

hi joiedevire,
i know very well that love is not about control,which is why i feel so confused - why have i allowed myself to fall in such a state over a woman who has so few morals as to pester a married man? why has the 13 year freely given trust and faith, love and respect turned into a love of possession and obsession? of course, i blame my hubby for encouraging her advances by responding to her persistence. it takes two to clap. i know he hasnt done anything wrong - the only thing wrong is to allow her into our relationship to hurt the woman he claimed to love. again and again. to lie to me because of her, knowing full well that he's abusing my trust in this matter.

the fault i have is of course the breach of his privacy and trust as well - which actually led to the culmination of all the events in the past 5 months. my heart seems to take over my mind when dealing with this. i can weave logic the whole day, but eventually when my emotions run amok, my sanity and behaviour does so too.

yes, like so many forummers has kindly advised me, live my life my own way. foster the values of honesty and integrity, responsibility and priority, love and respect into my sons so that no one shall ever be hurt by them the way i was hurt by their daddy.

my hubby has time and time again assured that he loves me, to the extent of buying an incredibly expensive diamond ring, to suggest taking a holiday together, to spending time with me and our kids much more than he ever has. but its like feeding a cough patient with diarrhoea pills. he knows what it takes, he has given promises after promises. i only pray and wish that this time he can really do it. i hope i can be strong this last time - not to check, not to ask, not to bother. just live.

i'm not going to be so stupid as to return the ring or reject a holiday though.
 
hi stardust,

first, please know that your reaction is a normal response to an abnormal situation... so don't beat yourself up about it... it's normal to feel the way you do, given your hubby's breach of the trust that you shared...

however, it sounds like he wants to improve things too... that is probably why he has gone to the expense to buy you an expensive ring and go on a holiday together as a family... he may not have kept his promises to you about cutting off contact with the woman, but at least he is making some effort to be closer to the family again...

as a woman, i believe you are aware too that if the other woman means to pester your hubby, she will only be too happy to see you become a nervous wreck so that he will turn to her more and more for friendship and solace... i don't think that's something that you want right? (btw, don't say "bravo lady". i think that woman is a sad case to cling on to someone who is married. even if they are not having an affair, she prob knows that she is causing problems in your marriage, yet she continues to do it. i don't think she is powerful at all. i think she is hopeless and a real shame to women. her own marriage was broken yet she is unable to learn from it and is hurting someone else's marriage.)

while you cannot change your husband now, you can change yourself. instead of focussing on how he is not keeping his promises, you can try to regain control over yourself first... your hubby may have lied before, but remember, you have the ability to choose how you want to respond to his lies...

you can choose not to check or question him... make it clear to him that you are still unhappy about it BUT you won't bother to keep tabs on him anymore. also that you would appreciate his honesty in future and you appreciate the things that he is currently doing to improve your marriage...

when you put it to him that way, you may find that he may be more forthcoming with you instead of lying to you...

it might also be good for you to do some exercise or anything else that you might like to clear your mind... when you feel tempted to check his hp, simply go off and do something else, such as check on your baby instead or call a close friend to chat...

it does sound a little like your hubby is also "lost"... he is probably just as confused as you... if he can't keep his promises, you have to be the one to reach out first and help him see that you are worth it... it will take a lot of discipline, but if you believe in yourself, you can do it...

i speak from my own limited and personal experience... hope you won't mind the things that i have said... if you feel that it helps to talk, especially when you are having thoughts of suicide again, you can also consider calling SOS or seeking out a counsellor who may be able to help you see things differently...

above all, remember you shouldn't pass a 'death sentence' on your marriage so soon... just because your hubby knows a lot of irresponsible people who treat marriage like trash doesn't mean that he will become like them... after all, you both have come a longer way than so many other couples... 13 years is a long time... instead of worrying about what he may or may not be doing behind your back, do something constructive for yourself, take the necessary actions to make things better (e.g. take better care of yourself, focus on other things, regain control over your emotions) and trust that things will work themselves out...

as the saying goes, what is yours will always be yours... i believe that there is still a good chance for your marriage to be repaired... it will only end when one party gives up completely... but i don't think both you and your hubby want to give up...
 
stardust,

until the day u learn to see thru faults, blames, wrongs... and see life, weakness, cause... the vicious cycle will not go away. and u can trust me when i say this - many pple go thru similar issues, just not directly similar to yours... they can be as mundane as issues with maids, MIL, colleagues or bosses.

do u even consider the fact that your husbanmd has a matyr-complex? a sviour of sorts, and he doesn't even realise it? could it be possible that the woman in question is ware but he continually tells her it's ok and he wants to be involved in her life? does he call her or does she call him? that will give u an idea of who initiates... next is whether he needs to pick it up. if he STILL wants to be involved, then this woman isn't really just another lady to him but More. if he sees her as a sister, she would have been so. if he sees her as a fren, she would have been so. but he is hiding her from u when u are an understanding person...

i am not gonna explore the possibilities anymore.

i'm just gonna tell u to wake up, live life, and dun be so hung on your husband nor marriage. u are trying to make them into something that it's not, and beyond your control...
 
stardust,

U talk abt your parents. Did it occur to u tat u will be hurting them when they find out wat u're going thru all by yourself? U talk abt your children & yet u would risk suicide, leaving them behind? I'm telling u. No man is worth tis. No man is worth hurting everyone else who loves u. Esp one who doesn't even cherish u. Dun grasp at straws wif diamond rings & holidays. U know there are cracks in your marriage & they're getting wider. U alone cannot mend them. For the sake of your sanity, u need to get away from the situation u are in. It's his call whether tis will be a temporary or permanent arrangement. I won't even count on his actions though. Seriously, hv u not hit rock bottom yet? If u hv, u wld be reaching out for tat beam of light at the end of the tunnel. I'm telling u from experience. There IS light after all tat darkness. The choice is really yours.
 
hi joiedevire,
your words make perfect sense to me.. sigh.. if i were reading another person's troubles, these would be the words i'd post too.. i know all too well that what i've become would be pushing him away instead of the opposite. but i do agree that its imperative that i regain control over myself. its just tough dealing with someone with such a huge ego that it affects how he's dealing with this issue - he isnt dealing with it logically and reasonably, but more of 'if you want to worry for nothing, i'll give you something to worry about' mentality. but this mentality is intertwined by the love he has for me and his family, which is causing him to behave this way - to try and salvage and assure me, yet on the other hand refusing to stop contacting her because i demanded it of him.

powder,
yes, he's very soft hearted in some ways, and i think he feels good when he can help them in some ways - he'd already lent them 200 bucks that i know of - i dont know if she'd asked to borrow anymore money from him after that. n anyway, he said he didnt expect to get it back. i dont think the woman is the one moving away. most of the calls are incoming from her. he says he only calls back when he misses the calls. which is possible because i notice that the outgoing calls he makes are usually after some incoming or missed calls from her. but yet again, i was really too distraught when i saw the huge number of calls and smses that showed her number and her daughters'.

and yes, why did i get so upset in the first place this is precisely because he chose to lie about her! i believe i mentioned before, that i would have been fine if he had told me about her before i saw the very first sms, and the first lie he told about her. the moment he made the consious decision to hide her from me, he already dictated the events of the past months. furthermore, after knowing i wasnt comfortable about it and promising to stop, he stil lwent ahead and became more and more chummy with her, and more and more involved with her life, and then made conscious decisions again and again to deceive me. that was what i couldnt take.

laundry woes,
sigh.. if i could think about that, then i wouldnt have lost touch with my senses in the first place. heart and mind were in a tug of war and mind was obviously losing. i;ve thought so many times about going away and gettin some time away to calm myself down, but it is near to impossible because i have a 2 month old baby with me, and a very active toddler. its near to impossible to pack up all and take off just like that. and its one reason why i feel trapped.but that being said, i know too that the situation isnt so bad as to pack and leave. i'm afraid that i might have been magnifying everything because of the depression i fear i'm in. i've tried to be factual with my posts but there's definitely traces of the mood i was in when i posted it. coming in here and putting my thoughts into words is a way for me to objectify everything and of course to receive opinions from forummers like you all who have been so helpful in offering alternative views.
 
stardust,

thank you for being receptive to my comments... i know i'm not you, and i can't even imagine how you must feel... honestly, if this were btw you and a boyfriend, i would, like others, simply say, move on... because love is not supposed to be about pain, it's supposed to bring you happiness... and like others have pointed out, there are very well behaved husbands out there...

but whether good or bad, both of you are married with kids... no matter what, you have to think of them and make decisions that will be good for them as well as yourself...

seriously, some men are suckers for damsels in distress... maybe the men on this forum can offer some insight on why that is so... i really hope for your sake that your hubby can see the light soon...

please stay strong... hope you have close friends in real life that you can confide in...
 
joiedevire,
unfortunately, many of those men who are suckers for damsels in distress fail to realise that if they want to the the knight in shining armor, they're the very ones creating more of such damsels should they be already married. perhaps that's why so many men fall prey to women who tell sob stories.
i can't very well up and leave because the hell of it is, i believe there's really nothing going on between them! however, i still really late the idea of them still keeping in contact with each other. who's to say what she'll stop at and at which point he'll cave to her advances?

no one knows about this.to everyone else,i'm a happy and fortunate person with a loving, albeit busy, hubby and a wonderful family. i hope this'll return to be the reality again soon..

sigh.. i was just so happy 6 months ago, why has my world crashed so badly in barely half a year..

how long will it take to build it up, to build myself up again?
 
actually your world crashed awhile ago, it's just that u rebuilt it yourself, let it crash, built it up, let it crash again, built it up again, let it crash further...

i understand u're afraid to make a decision, but if u decided that u cannot lose him, then make the decision to bo-chup n just continue Even if he starts havoing 3rd parties... u Must be prepared to go that direction.

u want him, u dun want him to do this, u dun want him to have this fren etc etc... he comes with that as a package. whether it's this girl or another girl, he is likely to have such packages... it's him isn't it?

u have gone thru lousy frens n women hanging on to him, and basically made him a victim of the environment, and made yourself a victim of him & his environment.

can only wish u all the best... dun u kill yourself, just keep going back n forth like this until u're resigned...
 
"i can't very well up and leave because the hell of it is, i believe there's really nothing going on between them! however, i still really late the idea of them still keeping in contact with each other. who's to say what she'll stop at and at which point he'll cave to her advances?"

I find tis so contradictary. U believe there's nothing going on, yet u feel the need to fix the situation. U plan on nannying your hb for life to make sure no woman ever comes close?

Of coz u're confused. For affairs of the heart, u dun need hormones or depression to complicate issues. Nonetheless, it is still easier to change yourself than to change him. Nothing is impossible. It's juz a matter of whether u feel tat compulsion to take action. Yep, I agree wif Powder. U will juz keep going thru the motion until u hit rock bottom or the issue somehow solves itself, whichever comes first. It's a choice u've made, so be prepared to live wif the consequences. All the best.
 
just pray very hard that your hubby will come to his senses. at least, at the moment, there is no concrete evidence to suggest that they are having a physical affair, and you are right to believe him on that...

if the problem is one of the divorcee becoming dependent on him or that he feels they have an emotional connection of some sort, it might be that he is trying to get from her and her daughter what he lacks at home... perhaps it's a sense of being appreciated...

at some point or other, many couples will experience a "crisis" in their marriage. i guess your "crisis" time is now. it will really be a big test for your marriage.

if he has been well behaved in the past years, show him a little more trust... for now, at least. of course, don't delude yourself too... if one day you really find evidence to the contrary of what you believe (touchwood), you may really have to make the big decision whether to continue or end.

you are not still considering suicide right? i don't want to sound like a broken record, but never, never end your life. you are cheapening the whole idea of life if you consider that. so many other people have survived worse things in their lives.

believe in yourself and try to be happier. even if the worst-case scenario happens, you can fight to keep your children, and still pursue your happiness with other people.
 
hi powder,laundry woes and joiedevire,
thanks for all the words you've given me.
i know it isnt very sound when i say i believe there's nothing going on between them and yet i dislike them keeping in contact with each other. i dont plan on going round in circles any longer, i only hope my mind is stronger than my heart now. i also dont plan, never have planned or thought of nannying or controlling him. that's why i feel so guilty and so helpless when i actually insisted that he cease all contacts with them when i know very well i'm being unreasonable. as for him going elsewhere because he feels unappreciated - i dont think so, but i did mention before that when this happened, i really took a good look at myself first before blaming anything or anyone else. i've never been needy, never been possessive or obsessive, never bothered who he went out with, how late he came back, making sure he had enough hot water in the heater to bathe when he returns, a light on in the hall for him. i know this escalated so much because i felt really neglected when he didnt seem to care about this pregnancy,went out so much more and left me alone to bear with all the discomforts myself. i saw less and less of him, and felt that he didnt need me in his life. i felt i was a burden that he could do without. when i took my son out on weekends, he left us to my parents and he saw less and less of our son to the extent that our son refused to be carried by him. and then i find out he was flirting with HER, visits ktvs and has hostesses accompanying him while i was in the dumps alone at home. everything fed into my loneliness and insecurity, and then i find out again and again he'd been taking HER out with him to nightclubs, being with HER when i needed him most, and he'd even gotten involved with her life and her daughters when he didnt even have time to spend with his own family. its no wonder i broke down and became unreasonable - i felt it was only justified that i demand to be given a peace of mind after so many months.

i noticed yesterday that he didnt keep his phone to himself like he always did before. he left it on when he went to the bathroom, he even left it on when we went to sleep. knowing that he'd placed his trust in me not to check again encourages me to do the same for him. and oddly enough, i didnt feel the urge to check it. i hope this is a good sign that we're slowly recovering together.
 
> its no wonder i broke down and became unreasonable - i felt it was only justified that i demand to be given a peace of mind after so many months.

i'm so glad for you that you can see the reason behind your supposedly unreasonable behaviour. in fact, it's quite reasonable for you to ask for what you did.

not checking his hp is a good step to take... please keep it like this.
happy.gif
 
stardust,

u're too much into the self-reproach shit for your own good. u dun know when to extend yourself the courtesy of understanding... u spend more time extending him breaks than yourself.

u should watch the movie The Joy Luck Club... u're abit like Rose who never understand her true worth... u're too passive and giving in real life, but behind the doors u wanna realise that true worth. when your husband is in the picture, u simply turn into a lesser being.

to think that u are being unreasonable to him is being absolutely blind. u are unreasonable to Yourself, more than anyone else... to feel guilty towards him is uncalled for, becos u should be feeling the most guilt to yourself for putting yourself thur these vicious cycles...

if u dun wanna watch the movie, read the book... it's by Amy Tan.
 
hi joiedevire,
yes i only can take it a step at a time.. i used to wonder why some women could be so unreasonable as to limit their husband's comings and goings, but now i know why. of course some women are comtrolling purely because they enjoy having their hubbies attend to their beck and call, but i'm sure others have their justified reasons. i will never again be too quick to judge.

powder,
you're right, i always put him, friends, colleagues, friends that matter to me in front. but what exactly is my true worth? isnt that very subjective? but i do know that i'm trying at all times to be the best that i can be. i think as far as i'm concerned, i was a pretty good girlfriend to him, a good wife, and a good enough mum although i do make mistakes but i still keep trying to improve

the joy luck club huh.. okay will see if i can get my hands on either the movie or the book.
 
stardust,

My comment on nannying wasn't meant as reproach, but illustrating the futility of it. Ok, lousy illustration. My bad.

I too find you too hung-up on being the model wife such tat you neglect yourself as a person. So what if you are the perfect spouse? It doesn't solve the issues tat you are having now. It takes two for the marriage to work. Wat is your hb contributing? A little bit of effort isn't going to work in a huge commitment as a marriage.
 
stardust,

being perfect is a Huge imperfection... being imperfect sometimes can be Perfect. i like fractured wood cos they make better art pieces and are more natural than a perfect block of wood with symetrical grains...

of cos reality is that the fractured wood remind me of myself and nature... perfect from far, imperfect from near, yet perfect to have whether near or far...

u try to be perfect in every way, to everyone, but leave yourself at the end of the queue... why it's a vicious cycle is becos every few weeks - u will be at the start of the queue n u ask yourself why u're getting the short end of the stick. then u quickly move on to absolve n forget that question, and move to the back of the queue again... everytime u post here with something 'new' - u are at the front of the queue where u ask for fairness to yourself. just as quickly in 2-3days, u will decide u're being unfair to him n forget your question on yourself... and u move to the back of the queue again...

u're one of the few who understand wat i'm saying ,agree, yet u have not reached the final stage of understanding - Realisation. in life, there's 3 stages of having knowledge stick deep in us... 1. Knowing, 2. Understanding, 3. Realising...

fret not, most pple hardly get to stage 3 becos they dun push themselves to reach that level. it takes Alot of self-honesty n exploration to reach stage 3... and if u're in Denial, u will just go back n forther between stage 1 & 2.

as usual, hope u take good care...
 
hi laundry woes,
no worries, i do understand what you're trying to say..=)
i dont really want to aim to be perfect, all i want is to be somebody with whom my hubby can lean on when he needs support, and someone whom he can trust to share his deepest fears and worries with.

powder,
its so true what you've said. of course i realise that perfection is in itself in the eyes of the beholder. in fact, some imperfection in one person may just make him/her perfect in the eyes of the right person.

to be very frank, i dont know what state i'm in now. just yday i posted that he left his phone accessible to me, but then last night he'd switched it off again, and i dont know if i'm reading too much, but i felt as if he was protective of it like he was before. the only reason i could think of why is prob she called and he answered, or he took the initiative to call her or her daughters - which meant he broke his promise again. that being said, i dont know for sure.

anyway, i repeat this mantra to myself whenever i find myself starting to sink into another spiral - don't ask, don't care, don't bother.
 
Hi stardust,

this is my first post here in this forum and i've registered just to post to you.

after reading ur posts,there are things i would like to say. it might sound offensive, but i'm just sharing my thoughts and i mean well...

from your posts, i personally feel that you are actually the one causing hurt to yourself. despite how ur husband treated you, you chose to trust him and putting up with his nonsense again and again without fail. u are causing him to take you for granted. why wouldnt he do that since you are always appearing to take in whatever he said no matter how unbelievable his words are.

there are especially 3 things i find them unbelievable. when i said unbelievable is not what your husband did. is how u manage to convince yourself to tolerate what your husband did.

1. setting pin on his mobile.
why did he do that if he got nothing to hide? i dun understand why you allow him?

2. holiday with his frens when you are in confinement.
he got you pregnant and he's enjoying with dunno who while you stay at home after giving birth. he left you to enjoy himself. how about you? taking care of the new born and getting yourself all upset just because you wanted to appear as a understanding wife. what a price to pay! you really agree with him that the free hotel accommodation is really such a good deal not to be missed that he had to abandon his just give birth wife and new born to enjoy this offer? which husband will bear to do that no matter how dying they wanted to go?

3. getting involved with a divorcee and her daughter.
it seems that your husband treat them more important than his own family. spending his spare time taking them out for dinner and calling them everday. did he call you that often? knowing that you are suffering because of them, he has no intention to break off contact.and yet showering them with his concerns everyday. did you ever ask yourself that if your husband is really such a person with compassion, why didn't he pity you for the sufferings that he caused you? it seems that he's not showing compassion, he wants to be part of the waitress's family.

after all he has done to you, i dun understand why you are still tolerating him. if he can't give you happiness, then u should give yourself the happiness you long wanted. if i were you, i would have already voice out all my unhappiness to him. or even call up the woman and ask him to stay clear from my husband. it might sound irrational and useless, but at least you did your role as a wife. hey you are the wife and you are there quietly witnessing that woman flirting with your husband.

if your husband truly loves you or care, these kind of things shouldnt had exist. there's no point voicing out your sufferings here. the person who should know is your husband. you are making your own life miserable. if breaking contact with tat waitress is so difficult, then you should know where you stand in your husband heart. self deceiving will only make you more miserable.
 
poor you, stardust .. i know how it felt looking after a newborn and an older child by yourself. a week after i was discharged home after giving birth to my 2nd one by c-section, my husband had to go to india for work. it wasn't like when we had our 1st child and he had taken one month leave to spend at home with us.

it wasn't easy .. i rarely got time to sleep because my no. 1 and no. 2 are alternating their routines ie one goes to sleep, the other is awake, etc. i felt abandoned by my husband but on the other hand, i understood that it was work.

my husband was gone 2-3 weeks but he came back on weekends (that was his deal with co, they want him to go but they have to pay for him to come back on weekend) .. it was tiring for him too, cos he arrived back in sg on sat morning and go back on sunday night. and when he finally came back, he took care of the children so that i could finally take a break and rest.

it must be so hard on you .. i've been reading your posts but not commenting till now .. personally i feel that you give a lot of reasons to excuse your husband from all that's happening and that you're letting him have his cake and eat it too .. you have your children, don't become a nervous wreck in front of them .. live for them, for you ..
 
hi vivian,
thanks so much for your views. you know what? i actually dont have an answer for you..or for myself. its not up to me to 'allow' him to set a pin on his mobile. my 'suffering' is not reasonable because to him, he hasnt done anything wrong. i said the exact same thing to him - if he finds breaking contact with her so difficult, then that should tell him how he really feels.

i really want so much to ask him every day, has she called? did he answer? but i stop myself because if there were contact between them that day, i'd be giving him an opportunity to lie to me again. and if there weren't, i'd only be showing him that i stil dont trust him to keep his words. so what's the point of asking.

anyway, we're both too tired to talk more about this. any further talk would only make matters worse. i'm giving us a time out on this matter, and perhaps when time has faded the emotions a little, i'll find a time to talk about this for a proper closure. otherwise i fear i may never stop thinking about it. as it is, she consumes my thoughts almost every waking hr.

cuclainne,
i suppose the 2nd child is not as exciting as the first one. same goes for my husband - when i had my first child, he'd come home from work early and try to spend time with us at home. but this 2nd one doesnt have the priviledge of spending time with his daddy.

it really isnt easy taking care of two. my elder son had indeed witnessed me going out of control, and he was frightened and cried. i felt so guilty and upset but yet the situation at the point in time was really unbearable. i feel a special bond to my 2nd one because he was the only one who was with me throughout the gruelling months. he heard my cries, felt my sorrows, witnessed my anguish and my loneliness throughout this 2nd and 3rd trimester. and when he looks at me now, i somehow sense a strong support behind his steady gaze. he's a good baby, perhaps he's trying to make things easier for me because he knew i had a hard time while he was growing in me.

i dont think my hubby would find another woman who'd love him as much, give as much of herself as i do.i only hope he'll really understand what is appropriate and what's inappropriate. 13 years is not a long time, but its not a short time either. we've practically spent half our lives with each other already.

i'd like to extend him the benefit that the only thing he did wrong to me was to lie - that's it. no cheating, no emotional or physical entanglements, no strings attached to them or anyone else. just pure, simple, innocent sympathy for someone who just happens to have feelings for him. and i seriously hope she wouldnt think she's get anywhere further than a friend with him - IF he is indeed still in contact with them.
 
stardust,

> i dont think my hubby would find another woman who'd love him as much, give as much of herself as i do.

i think in love, it's not always about how much u can give, but it's abt a balance, smth like a to and fro of giving... both parties must have their needs met... if u find that u r always the one giving, then u should stop.

in love and in a marriage, as u prob know, what u give does not necessarily equal to what u get back... the other person must also give smth back to u... otherwise, it is not a balanced marriage.

also, i am sorry to say this, how do u know that no other woman will love him as much as u? is he so unlovable to ur eyes?

this is not to make u lose confidence... but i hope it can help u see that actually, both u and ur hubby can probably find happiness elsewhere too, with other pple. whether or not u wan to stay together is due to one thing: choice.

please don't obsess abt the calls anymore... try and keep calm for a while... clear ur mind... and then maybe after a mth or so speak to ur hubby again... and ask what he intends to do abt it...

even if he has had an affair, pple do make up... again, it's all a matter of choice for the couple. more importantly, the person who "strayed" must also be willing to compromise. u can help him along, but u cannot do it for him, or shape him into someone he's nt willing to be.
 
your story sounds just like what my mother went through .. she stayed because she believed, just like you, that my dad won't find another woman who would love him as much, made many sacrifices for the sake of family, etc .. but my dad didn't need someone who loved him, he just needed someone to make him feel good for the moment ..

my parents were married for 30+ years before my mother said enough! and even then, it was only after me and my siblings told her to call it quits .. that dad was never going to change and mom was just being his safety net. do you want your children to go through the same?

as much as i want a father-daughter relationship with my father even after the divorce, my father cannot give that to me. instead he's blamed everyone for what's happened except himself!!!
 
thast's true... nomatter what u think, it's best not to assume that everyone needs love, particularly men... men can get short-term love quite easily via sex, with money and stuff. love isn't in the same total concept tat some of u may envision... it doesn't have to be magical, orgasmic should suffice... just look at the unlces with a 2nd family in batam... u think they need the sort of love that most of us associate with?

and this concept of selfless giving is Good if u apply to the world and be the next Mother Theresa... but in a relationship, i can tell u honestly that u might not get anything back. in spore, i do notice that some pple are into the 'i give u give back' concept of relationship... maybe it's an equality streak in us, maybe we'd just like to keep counting... but it can come to nought.

nomatter how much someone sacrifices for me, what i feel is more of Appreciation & Gratitude, not Love...
 


one of the scariest things a girl can say is "i sacrificed so much for u..." it's one of the reasons why i prefer to have loads of money, not need any help in anything, nor accept ay gifts or goodwill... i hate the kind of relationships where i have to feel i owe the girl something... i also dun like girls who think the world of their virginity n i have to give them my life just cos i took it away... sounds abit crude but it can be scary...

reciprocal relationships simply dun work for me, very very scary...
 
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