Innocent flirting?

Hi margret,

its been months since i talked to him about my feelings and i had tried to stop thinking. It worked only awhile when i really dont care about his whereabouts, just spend time with my kids. But then i will go back thinking again. Im trying to come to a conclusion to my problems. Many things happen during these few months and i really need to solve it once and for all. It's really exhausting to keep thinking where ur partner went everynight and who he is with.
 


hi jj,
i vaguely remember reading your thread but cant recall the details. would you mind posting again what transpired?

its very difficult to get past the stage you are in now especially when your husband is not willing to put in the effort - you're stuck in a room with a locked door and the only one who can open it for you is not doing so.

but the bottomline is, do you believe that he is the sort of person who would, and could have hurt you? knowing what you know of him. i recognise that ppl do change, and yes, sometimes values and morals may shift too, but i believe the foundation of what a person is will not change so easily.

its not only exhausting to keep thinking where he goes and who he is with, its also a slow death of trust. are you still on congenial terms with your husband? if yes, then try to catch a time where HIS door is open, and communicate your insecurities to him. it could just be a quiet 10 or 20 mins while waiting for a meal to be served, but it can be a big step forward in healing.
 
stardust,

this is the thread http://www.singaporebrides.com/forumboard/messages/5/1121184.html?1248861502

i never thought he can be so cruel, heartless to me. His character is like this. He likes to go drinking, looking at girls, even go up to girls whom he doesnt know, to start a conversation.But i never tot he will get their numbers and be friends and be intimate with them. In May, he totally changed and heartless. We already talked about this so many times, he always ask me for time and whatever he said is all lies and lies and broken promises.

Yes we still talk but only on kids or work (we work together). We don't have a meal together alone for a very very long time. Suggested to go out together, but always says he dont have time, he need to go out. I'm making a lot of effort, and willing to take him back even though he's seeing another woman. But he only denied it and even become even worse.
 
"I'm making a lot of effort, and willing to take him back even though he's seeing another woman. But he only denied it and even become even worse."

Hi JJ, you can't give chance to someone who doesn't want to take it.
 
JJ,

u're like my mum years ago... constantly brewing ginseng for me to improve my health... putting so much effort into it.

i hate ginseng, i'm healthy, i think it's a waste of money.

she brew, i reject, she brew, i reject, she brew, i reject, she brew, i reject, she brew, i reject.

so she tells frens/relatives how i dun know how to appreciate ginseng n my health...

doesn't change anything, i still hate ginseng, i'm still healthy, i still think it's a waste of money.
 
"Yes i know. And he don't deserve any chances from me too."

JJ, you are still in a state of denial. This is as much I can tell. It's not wrong to be in such a state temporarily but don't over stay in this stage.
 
hi all,

thanks for all advices. Im going for divorce. This time is real. I already decided to divorce him and just now he told me that he wants to end it too. I'm looking for lawyers now. Anyone got lawyers to recommend?

doll,

can pm me ur lawyer's contact?
 
JJ,
perhaps its really time to end. at least you've both come to terms with it, and so it'll be easier to make a break and move on. sure you'll be scarred by this, but what's important is you do not forget that humans are survivors.

i havent posted in a while because a close uncle of mine had passed on. it was so hard to come to terms with it because one day he was there and the next he was not.it was so unexpected, and it gave me a real jolt. when the time comes to say goodbye, would i remember all these things and still try to prove things that may be or may not be? what's the point in proving myself right or wrong? so what if i'm right? so what if i'm wrong?

i truly understood what strength is after witnessing my grandma trying to behave as usual when she's around ppl, but yet cry silently when she's alone. she's depressed, but yet she goes around consoling others.
 
i feel like giving up and leaving once and for all.

i keep trying to build my trust back, but he's making it so difficult.

As i was clearing up old junk today, i stumbled upon his phone bill. two of the days while he was supposed to be in reservist, he had made calls and smses from malaysia. he told me he would go into jb at night for supper with his campmates, but definitely didnt say it'll be the whole day. and i vaguely recall him telling me he was outfield on the two days he was in msia.

another thing - i've noticed he receives calls from another woman. i've known this for some time, but because i promised to trust, i brushed it aside until one day i saw her number flashing on his phone while he was bathing. he missed that call, but after he came out from the shower, he received a call again and he spoke softly into his phone. i knew it was her but when i asked him, he just vaguely said it was someone from office. i chose to let it go.

just last week, he got a call early in the morning at 715am, i had a hunch it was her and i casually asked who it was. he pretended he didnt hear my question. i didnt pursue but it bugged me to whole day. when i had a rare chance to look at his calls later that day(his phone is always off with a PIN when he's at home with me), the first incoming call he got the day was at 9 am. he'd deleted the 7am call from his list. i felt a very familiar stab in my heart.

he would usually clear his sent sms log, but i guess he forgot to delete these two messages he'd sent to her 'behave yourself and do your choers properly', and another 'take fish and reach home by 530'. i looked at his dialled numbers, but no calls were made to her. and yet when i checked his phone book, the last searched entry was her name.

in his phone bill to msia that i found, he'd sent 4 smses to and a call to her.

i wanted so much to ask him who she was. but yet i couldnt even clarify because im so afraid he's get angry that i dont trust him again. now i truly understand why evidence gotten without a permit cannot be used in a court of law.

i find it so hard to live right now. at times i find myself feeling postive and telling myself i still trust him, he lies because he loves me and doesnt want to hurt me, and that he know where the line is and will never cross it. at times i feel like the lowest person on earth, i feel so badly hurt and i just want to leave him and all of this behind.

i feel trapped in my own deceit and mistrust.and i have no way of getting out. its no use telling myself to stop looking and checking, because his behaviour in itself doesnt inspire trust. you may find yourself eating half the fish without biting into a bone, but the moment you take a bite with a bone, wouldnt you naturally be more wary when you take the next bite? am i trying to rationalise my behaviour? what's happening? i feel so lost and confused.
 
Stardust,

At the outset, I have the impression that you are in self-denial. The signs are there for you to mistrust but you chose denial instead. You chose to want to trust him and yet you can't. It is eating you up.

It is not an easy situation but if you want to get over this - you have to do it the hard way - that is a open heart to heart talk.

If you can't do that. I would suggest a period of separation from him for you to have a clear mind. Ask him to get out of the house. It is a double-edge sword but it may be the best for you in the long run.
 
Hi Stardust, been following your thread for awhile. I really feel for you. From a 3rd person's point of view, you've been very forgiving wife. It's pretty obvious that this situation, you have to make a decision, it been a rollercoaster. You are not silly just very much in love with your man. Am curious what have he done to prove his love and commitment for you? Shouldn't he be more sensitive to your feelings? Would he bear to see you like that? It is very stressful for you. To live in constant doubt and your man is not giving you the assurance. Why would he want to delete his records and even pin his phone? Sorry, personally i cannot accept this. I expect transparency and acts of trust from my partner. Trusts and actions comes together. Words is usually....... talk only...... No woman should deserve this type of emotion swings especially when she is pregnant. Husband should devote 100% to wife and ensure her emotion level is at tip top level simply cos the man won't even allow to bear his beloved wife going through so much emotional pain. You are not being unreasonable to clarify your doubts. I knew someone like you, she is afraid of stirring up her husband though she has her suspects and couldn't get the assurance and love between a couple. She lived this for 30 years before her husband realize she is a worthy wife. I am pregnant too and i know how much love and understanding is required from a man.
 
stardust,

there is someone who deserves the wife tat u are... i dun think he's the recipient. i'm one of your biggest fan... u must take good care and find strength, then happiness. u deserve no less than the best...
 
Hi Stardust

I'm so so sorry. I was really rooting for you... I wanted so much for your hb to be telling the truth, because you deserve nothing but a worry and stress-free pregnancy. Your new discovery has made me feel so sad for you.

I am in no position to advise you on your next course of action. All I can say is, I think you've been patient enough, and understanding enough. You can no longer keep sweeping things under the carpet and hope that everything will be okay. It is time for you to muster up the courage to make a decision... whatever that decision may be.

All the best, and please take care. We're all here for you, should you need a virtual shoulder to lean on. *HUGS*
 
sm,
in the earlier weeks, i had indeed asked him to move back to his mum's place. not because i dont want to see him, but rather i didnt want him to witness the mess i'm in now, and add on to the burden and stress he already faces at work. but he didnt want to. the thing is, even though he'd done so many things to rouse mistrust instead of inspire trust,i know he's still the very same person i fell in love with so many years ago. perhaps i really am in denial, i'm trying very hard to approach this as logically as i can, but i realise that i'm not handling anything at all. i'm just collecting bits and snippets of his lies, and trying to rationalise them to myself.

hi avocado,
first, congratulations on your pregnancy. =)
hm, what has he done to prove his love and commitment? i dont know how to answer this actually, because i wasnt looking out for any overt signs of whether he loves me or not. but he has cut down on going out drinking quite alot in these recent weeks.more so recently since my due date is drawing near. and i see an effort on his part. the thing is, he doesnt behave as if he has a guilty conscience, you know? apart from these little things that i found out, he's basically the same person. and that is what's making me so confused. how can someone who is still the same be so different? he doesnt know the pain i've been going through simply because i chose to hide it from him. he doesnt know how much tears i'd shed, and how deeply hurt i actually am. to him, he feels stressed when he comes home to a crying wife, and that makes him want to stay out more. sometimes when he comes home drunk, he'd mumble he is a good husband, why doesnt his wife trust him. when i questioned him the very last time when that waitress called him and i saw the incoming call, he threw out this sentence 'since you dont trust me anymore we might as well not be together' before he left for work. but i know he regretted saying that because he came back home an hr later with breakfast for me,and telling me not to let my thoughts run wild. i'm really afraid of opening the can of worms again.

powder,
thank you for all your kind words. i wish i could believe it, or that he would think so too, but i'm afraid to him i'm just someone who doesnt trust him, gets suspicious of him, a burden he has to worry about when he has to go out to entertain and has to leave me alone at home. someone who cries and adds stress on to him, not understanding about why he has to work such long hours and entertain so much. someone whom he has to hide his bills and his phone from, and forced him to be secretive even when he'd done nothing wrong.

hi AB,
sigh.. i feel like i should be working in a PI firm, since it seems there's always something new to 'discover' that he'd tried to 'cover up'. perhaps this is the worst of all, thinking everything has blown over, when in fact something new is waiting for me to uncover. i really would rather do without such 'excitement'. right now there's really nothing i can do. i've got a baby to give birth to soon, and then i'll need time to recuperate from it. he'll be going on a short trip with his colleagues during my confinement. its not that i dont allow him to travel with his friends, but i wish he'd forgo it and stay with me this time, i wish that for once i could be his priority. but hi can tell he really wants to go, and so again i've put what i really want away, and told him to enjoy himself.

what would it take for him to finally place me as one of his priorities, even just for a little while? i just want to feel that i'm important to him as well as all the other things he has going in his life. is that so wrong and so much to ask?
 
you know, there were times when he said he'd be out drinking with his friends, but then he'd suddenly come home and said he'd decided not to go, and to stay at home to be with me. i felt so happy and contented, and i appreciate him for it. but why is there another side to him that i dont understand?
 
What the hell? He's going on a holiday during your confinement?!?!?! I would be lying if I said I wasn't flabbergasted! After everything the both of you went through, and you having a tough pregnancy, I would have thought it was basic decency for him to be there and help relieve some of the stress you would be going through during confinement. All the irregular feedings at weird hours of the night, lack of sleep, and on top of that you have another child to look after!

Not sure if I'm over-reacting, but I find this very wrong to be honest.
 
Actually I don't really see why you have so much faith in him.

Going on a short trip with colleagues during your confinement? I don't know. What right thinking, loving husband and father would do that?

If it is for work at least nothing to comment about. But on a holiday?

Through this action, you can see how important you are to him..
 
he asked me if he could go, and to be frank, if he even had to ask this question, what's the point in asking him if he could not go. by virtue of asking, it already shows he wants to, am i right? he told me he's actually already rejected them, but because 2 ppl backed out and there was an extra room they they'd booked, and so they asked him again, and that was when he asked me. to say that i'm not hurt about it would be a lie. but if i asked him not to go, i'm afraid he'll feel that i'm being controlling and trying to limit his freedom. he probably thinks i'd be fine having a confinement nanny to help me with the baby, and my mil would be around to help with my elder son.
 
Like SM said... what loving husband and father would do that?

I also don't know what type of friends he has, but if my friend's wife just had a baby, I wouldn't jio him for a holiday.
 
Yes, if he has to ask means something. But don't you think.. two people can backed out.. so what so big deal about the trip.

Actually you should tell him how you feel. what is the point of feeling hurt and not telling him.. You are just fueling all the frustrations.. it is not healthy for a relationship.
 
his friends are probably those who has loads of girlfriends and complicated lives outside their marriages. in sec school there's peer pressure to smoke, perhaps in his working world there's peer pressure to lump all wives together and say they're mistrustful and controlling, and men cannot bow down to these crazy women. =)

i intended that as a joke. but i'm starting to suspect its true.

sm,
he says its a waste not to go because they told him he just needs to pay for his own ticket, not the accomodation. he's been holding back booking his ticket until he's certain it wouldnt clash with baby's full month celebration. since now its a sure no clash, i;m sure whether he'd gone ahead and booked yet. i know i should talk to him about it, but i really have no energy should he choose to argue about it.
 
doll,
at this juncture, i just dont have the energy and strength to go through any quarrels, fights whatever. that's why i try to avoid anything that may spark even the littlest unhappiness now.
 
stardust,

it is perfectly understandable that you are feeling the familiar stab in the heart.

recalling the previous issue, i've gotta admit that he is Now indeed ruining the Trust that you are painstakingly trying to re-build - never mind the unfamiliar numbers, but not so for the manner in which he had conducted the phone calls and also the content of those sms-es - pretty much the same old story like before.

in short, i would not risk dis-placing the Trust in jeopardy Again if you were my wife.

with that said, to go on a pleasure trip (regardless of the period) on your would-be confinement period is pretty self-centred....
 
stardust.

No need to argue what.

Just tell him how you feel.. the decision is up to him... and remind him if he is not going.. don't put on a black face.. that is all. If he wants to go, go.. just that you are not happy.. and you are telling him how you feel.

And come on.. how much is the room? Not as if he can't afford to pay for the room.. I find this type of "room free wasted not to go" excuses laughable..

Dying to go say so lah.. no need to give such reasons
 
I am not a woman.. but I have been through three confinements with my wife..

Those mood, at times, swing wildly. And sudden cravings for food.. it helps to have hubby around.

And at night, the baby could be crying..

As a father, it is so wonderful to wake up and feed the baby.. I wonder why would a man want to give that up..
 
Stardust, is he the kind that does not take NO for an answer and insists on his own ways? If yes, then I can understand why you fear for his reaction which is always a flare up.
 
vios,
yes i already told him that i cannot take more secrets or lies, so a large part of why i'm hurt is not the same old story like before, its why he still chooses to risk the trust that i'm trying so hard to rebuild? does he think i'm so stupid that i wouldnt be able to read his behaviour?

sm,
i know he's dying to go too, and that's why i didnt say no. i wish he'd realise it on his own, because i really dont like to make ppl do things they dont want to. there's no meaning in it anymore. if he'd chosen to give up the trip, i'd know we're more important to him and he wants to be with us. but yet he's chosen to ask, and so he dumped the responsibility on me. i.e. my wife dont let me go. how sweet would that be even if he's here physically but not in spirit, or worse still, be resentful about it?
 
stardust,

I don't know.. but I think as couples we should be able to be open.. yes, he can go.. and won't resent.. but you are hurt.. and you put all the hurt on yourself..

For me, I don't think it is healthy..
 
stardust,

unfortunately yes... he knows that he has a hold on you. he is playing the "guilt card" so that you either - LL gotta trust him, Or kick up a fuss in which you are blamed for mistrusting him.

as said, i just thought that "a guy who claimed to be trustworthy" should avoid the unnecessary body language which would surely lead to further Mistrust for the wife - after all the previous drama.

it's pretty basic, but obviously he is abusing the Rights to be trusted.
 
sm,
he loves our son to bits. during my maternity leave for our first child, he'd help with the night feedings. it was pretty tough because we were both new parents. we've had our shares of the 'i'm tired looking after the baby 24/7', and the ' 'i've worked hard the whole day and i need some rest' time, and it worked out pretty ok in the end.

my confinement nanny would be around for night feedings, so i guess he feels its ok for him to go overseas for a few days.

doll,
not really so, he's open to other views, but he's really tired of being accused of cheating when he hasnt. when i questioned his lies early on, he was sorry about it and apologized. but after time, he started to get tired about being questioned abt the same issue again and again.
 
i don't know about your husband, but it's super duper common sense that the wife needs her husband after giving birth.

i am not a father yet, but i do understand the situation when it comes.
 
stardust,

But is it fine for you? And since it is only a few days.. maybe you can be more magnanimous and truly let him enjoy? Just open your mind .. maybe he deserves this holiday treat? It is only a few days.

If you think in this way, maybe you won't feel so hurt..
 
sm n doll
i know its not healthy for any relationship to be like this. bu it wasnt like this before. we were open and trusting and there was nothing to shadow our sunny lives - we lived like this for over 10 years, and i really dont know why it has become like this now. everything happened so quickly, within these 3-4 months, everything seems to have vanished, and what's left are lies and deceit ,not only on his part, but on mine as well. i know he's kept things from me, but i've kept so many things from him too. and i suddenly feel so tired, so old. there were times when i wanted to leave forever. i want to shut myself up so that nobody can get to me and hurt me again. i feel like throwing everything down and going for a long long trip to somewhere far far away. but i cannot do any of those things now. there's always a rock in my heart, its getting heavier and heavier. i could lift it up at times and take a breather, but it ends up falling back down again after some time.

vios,
perhaps i shouldnt have been so nosy in the first place. then i wouldnt have any guilt for him to hold on to. its really the proverbial bed that i made and have to sleep on now.
 
stardst,

the times he was supposed to be out drinking with his friends, but then he'd suddenly come home and said he'd decided not to go, and to stay at home to be with me....

are the times that the session was cancelled. Or it was tentative... he pre-books u for disappointment, then surprise u with time... when actually he was disappointed that the activity didn't go thru... think abt it...

it's my very personal belief tat he loves u as his wife... But i also believe that he has beliefs towards a wife's role... and That role isn't the role tat aligns with u entirely... he is likely to still seek certain female-fulfilments outside.

i'm not speculating, but sharing my thoughts... Unless it's work, i'd think holiday during your confinement is Absolutely ridiculous. and mind u, i'm an absolute career-minded workaholic...
 
heartpain and sm,

its a 4 day trip.
that's exactly why i chose to say okay for him to go. and why i havent made known how i really feel about him going for the trip. i didnt want to lay a guilt trip on him. to make him feel better, i told him to buy something expensive back for me, and promise to take a good holiday with me next year. after all, he doesnt really get to go with his friends and holidays since for him, no work = no money. it just so happens that this trip fell on the wrong time, that's all.

doll,
perhaps i'm too immune to the hurt already. its become such a familiar feeling. i'm trying to override it by concentrating on the nice things he does for me. perhaps one day all of these will blow away and never return to haunt us ever again. otherwise i'll just question him when i'm in labour - dont think he'll have the heart to lose his temper when i'm in such obvious pain giving birth to his child. =)
 
powder,
i never thought about that, but i dont think that's the case because there were times when he receives calls from them when he reaches home, and he tells them he's not going. of course he might have told them to call and make up a show, but i dont think so coz he's not the kind who would expend even that much energy and effort. a few times he'd already be there, and turned back coz of long queues - he wasnt going to bothe to queue up to go in, or else he says the impt ppl werent there and he'd rather come home earlier since no need to show face anyway.

i really dont understand how can a person claim to love you, but yet chooses to do things that would hurt you at the same time.
 
u dun think so... doesn't mean it's untrue. besides, your mind has been programmed to excuse him before he even asks to be excuse liao... so the mental conditioning is all there liao... certainty would come with more conviction than "i dun think so"

as much as u're convinced u know him and can attest to wat he will/will not do, u must also remember that whatever he is doing behind your back, isn't something u expected either... trust your judgment, but dun discount reality just to keep your judgment afloat.

like i said, he loves u... he just dun love u the same way u expect love to be from a husband to a wife. in some countries, it is ok for a man to have women outside... u can go for a fcuk before going home and wife will await u with warm dinner waiting...

try tat in spore... u'll lose your testicles.
 
stardust,

u sure he's going wif his frens? the confinement period coincides with school holiday?

i think it's necessary to find out more, but not now. now is not the rite time as u r heavily pregnant... most impt thing now is to ensure the safe delivery of ur baby...
 
junkie,

don't feed her insecurity. No need to find out more about his so called holiday. Since he is going, just accept it and be open about it.
 
Stardust, because you are afraid of losing him, you let him do what he wants but inside of you, you feel very miserable as you can't even voice it up. In this case, why don't you just accept that he is like that, like it or not?
 


i see the points everyone is making very clearly. thank you for giving your frank opinions. i guess in the state i am in now, i simply dont have the mood, strength nor energy to pursue this further. i feel very defeated now, and i'll need time and space to gather my thoughts and strength together before i feel capable of dealing with this in the best way possible. which is why i feel trapped, because i know what i have to do, and yet because i'm neither here nor there now, i feel helpless to fight for myself. i can't concentrate on anything. i know i have to keep my sanity and be clear as to who i am and what i want. but because i'm so distracted by this pregnancy, not an easy one, i find myself losing direction. besides that, i've still got a strong willed 2 yr old to tackle. i feel that i'm juggling so many balls in the air and i cant afford to drop any one.

i just need to get past this hurdle of a smooth delivery, then i'll feel more able to handle all the other stuff that're going on. and if need be, i'll book an appt with a counsellor. i feel that there's a high chance of falling into depression after birth.

i wish things hadnt gotten so bad. perhaps i didnt handle it properly in the first place.but thinking back, the way i handled it was what i thought was best. although i'm capable in putting down my thoughts in black and white, i'm actually a failure at voicing out thoughts verbally. i get too emotional and i'd start to cry before i can get anything sensible out.

he'd read what i posted before, but i dont think he reads this thread any longer. perhaps after i feel more capable of handling this new issue, i'll just get him to read this again, and hopefully he'll understand how i truly feel.
 
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