Innocent flirting?

hi cappucino,
did you recover from your depression with professional help? so far my symptoms are not throughout the day. these senses of helplessness and hopelessness come to me in waves mostly at night. in the day i do catch myself staring into space but then i can manage to pull back before i lapse into a full blown panic attack. last night was pretty bad. my son was at home with me and my husband had gone out with his friends. after my son fell asleep, i tried to sleep too but out of the blue i started crying in bed. it got worse and worse until i felt i couldnt breathe. i struggled to collect my thoughts and it subsided, but after a while it hit again out of nowhere. i even had thoughts of taking the remainder of my sleeping pills, there were only 3 left.i was so close to taking them all but i was afraid that my son would have a nightmare and i wouldnt be able to comfort him should i have taken them all. i refrained from calling my husband coz i didnt want to disturb him, but i yet i wished like anything he was around to hold me through it.

finally at nearly 3am i couldnt take it and called him, but his phone was off. i desperately tried calling again and again even though i knew it was off and it wouldnt make any difference no matter how many times i dialled. i felt so out of control. i kept telling myself it was just a panic attack, and it was my brain that was tricking me into thinking there wasnt any oxygen around. but i was seriously frightened because no matter how i tried to breathe, i felt as though there wasnt enough air around me. it felt so real.

but yes, like you said, knowledge is the key. by reading more about it, i can teach myself to better handle it.

pursuer - distancer r/s
fortunately, now that my husband is in the loop of what i'm going through, i find that his support is so healing. i dont think we're as extreme as a pursuer and a distancer, so far we're pretty balanced. although i agree that at times when i distance myself a little more, he tends to want more of my attention. it has always been a point of amusement between us.

i'm pretty certain that i just need to get through the remaining months, and i'll get better. meanwhile i just need to keep myself from falling into the pit again.

i dont know if i'll have such episodes again, or how well i'll handle another one should it start up again. but one thing i do know now is that i'm very well loved by my husband.i've never seen such love and concern in his eyes that i can remember before, and i know how much worry i'm causing him. now all i hope is that he can strong enough for me and take me through this period without giving up on me.
 


Hey stardust

Pls seriously consider going for counselling. The lack of sleep is not good for your unborn child.

p/s: Tried to PM you but it's off. Can you pls turn it on? Thanks.
 
Hi stardust,

I was recovering from it. I also had insomnia, sense of hopelessness, helplessness, cry for no reason. My mood can swing from high to low and at different period of time. I was like struggling to get out of the water but instead sunk deeper. I tried desperately to reach out to him for love, affection but he just didn't care. All this feelings can be overwhelming and these feeling just impede my sense of judgment. I was in state of denial too.

I can't handle those feelings by myself; reading up for information gives me insight of what could have caused all those strange helpless and hopeless feeling. I understood I had the signs for depression and I understood that I needed help too. Why not you go for counseling? It doesn't work like magic and make your problems disappear but you can release some stress and it can make you realise what you subconsciously want etc.

When you mentioned that you tried calling your husband's handphone again and again even knowing that he switched off the phone... I knew that feeling because I had done it too. I called him last week on his handphone and there's no answer but I tried calling and calling him knowing full well that he won't answer because he was with a pros.

I had made my choice but I just needed to give myself some time to give up bit by bit the love I had for him. Everyone is different, some people can just cut off the feelings completely and move on. Giving up the person that you once loved so much is not easy but it can be done. So many forumers here had been there and done it, so can I.
 
hi AB,
i've activated my PM already.

cappucino,
that would be my next step - counselling. i'm not sure if i should go for it as yet since i think whatever the counsellor would say is what i have already told myself. should it be clinical depression, i would need medication which at this point i dont think would be willing to take for the sake of my unborn baby.

have you talked to him about your situation now? about where you intend to go next from this crossroad? is he not willing to give up his other life for you?

i guess i'm lucky enough that he responded to my silent call for help. but i know he wouldn't bother if he hadnt witnessed himself how i broke down and how much i was hurt and affected. i'm a person who keeps things to myself, and even if i tried to confide in him before, he would have treated me as invisible and an additional stress factor to his life.

you have lived once without him, if you have decided to give up and move on, i'm sure you can.

hi vivien,
i actually agree with you - what you dont know won't hurt you. however, fate decreed that i found out his lies. the truth may be painful, but we'll eventually forget the pain. lies will scar for life.

anyway, i'v reached a place where i know i can trust him no matter what. my problem now has become internalised. its no longer an issue with him, but myself. i dont even question him at all, and i believe whatever he tells me or chooses to tell me. its just that i know i cannot handle my state alone. i dont want to share this with anyone else because i know i'll make everyone worried for me. and i hope my husband knows how much faith and trust i have in him to even let him into my innermost fears and worries.
 
hi AB,
I've received your PM. Actually why i'm still hesitant to speak to a counsellor is because i'm not ready to verbalize everything yet. i still feel raw and vulnerable, its too trying on my mentalities to rehash everything from scratch again. perhaps after a while when everything's a little more distant, and i still feel the need to objectify, then perhaps that will be the right time to seek outside help.

but i really do thank you very much for being so concerned for me. its because of forummers like you and so many others that have shared precious points of views and insights that i find this period more manageable. =)
 
Stardust, cappucino

Please take care that you don't let your depression deteroriate to a full-blown depression. Like I have said earlier, we can lose anything but not our minds.
 
"ya, I am aware that we can use other grounds for divorce and not necessary on the grounds of infidelity. If I pursue the grounds on infidelity, at the end of the day, the lawyer should be the one who has the last laugh. Guess it is the pride lor."

Cappucino, you know he is at a stage that he doesn't care a bit about your feelings. Are you trying to show him what you are capable of or to bring justice to yourself?

To someone who no longer have any feelings for you or who actually feels negative toward you, don't waste your effort, time and money. Those antics that you plan are going to make his negative feelings for you deepen. It's unlikely that he will feel remorseful at this stage. Even if that's what you want, is it really worth your time and money when at the end of the day you will still get the same divorce certificate that any divorced person gets?

Why pay $10K for a piece of paper that can be paid for with only $2.5K? Pardon me, that does not make good economic sense. That piece of paper is not a prized trophy, just a written proof that you are legally single. I will invest my money to save a marriage but not to end a dead marriage. Simply not worth it.

For me, the moment I decided on divorce, I became really practical and start looking after my own interest. I was more concerned about my future, not my past which I could do nothing about. But still I didn't make the ex-husband lose big. In fact, you can say he had won or lost as much as I did. No one was better off than the other in the process.

It was an unhappy past that I was determined not to do more to add to the unhappiness and mystery. The earlier I freed myself from the negativity the lighter my baggage and the more ready I would be to face a new tomorrow.
 
doll,
yes i understand fully what you mean abt not losing our minds. when u finally decided on a divorce, perhaps you have already cut all emotional ties and thus its easier to treat it a legal process than not? but i do agree with you that once cappucino decides to move on, there should not be any emotional ties left otherwise the person who stands to lose out more, be it practically or emotionally, it'l be herself since she is more invested in her marriage than her husband seems to be.

cappucino,
since he isnt going to make the effort to change, and you've decided on your course, i think you've made the right decision to retrieve your love bit by bit. by the time you're emotionally protected, that'll be the right time to file for divorce.
 
Stardust,

The source of your unhappiness is your reliance on him to make you feel happy. You need to find your own motivation for happiness.

He is probably not lying to you when he tells you he still loves you. Both guys and girls are capable of separating an exciting crush vs spouse etc. his situation now is that he feels very much needed, and not only by you. It might be this comfortable-needed feeling that makes this zone comfort zone to him, even though the very same situation is causing you to be depressed.
 
hi small love,
right now i really find it difficult to climb out of this abyss myself. i've never been so reliant on him and i can't understand why i'm like that now. i would blame it on my pregnancy because i was also like this during my first pregnancy, the difference being i caught him lying about so many things which probably fuelled everything that i'm feeling now, and why its so hard for me to shake off these unpleasant thoughts and feelings. but i know i have to do it and do it soon, i dont want to add stress to his already stresful life. i keep telling myself if i love him as much as i say so, i've gotta snap out of it and soon.

i know he's most probably telling the truth when he says he feels nothing for her but sympathy, and i think he's responding to her advances because he feels flattered by the attention she's showering on him. i just don't like the feeling of being in the dark when he responds to her like that, and intentionally lying to me while doing so.
 
"when u finally decided on a divorce, perhaps you have already cut all emotional ties and thus its easier to treat it a legal process than not?"

Stardust, I would say that when the mind, guided by logic, is made up, the emotions will catch up with you later. It wasn't like after I had made the right decision for myself I immediately could cut off all ties with ex-husband, felt on top of the world and ready to embrace tomorrow. Like what I have said earlier, we live out the decision and make the best out of it. It is certainly a process, not an overnight thing.

"but i do agree with you that once cappucino decides to move on, there should not be any emotional ties left otherwise the person who stands to lose out more, be it practically or emotionally, it'l be herself since she is more invested in her marriage than her husband seems to be."

Actually, it isn't about who loses out more. It's about keeping our emotions in check so that we don't lose our mind to negativity or depression. That's how I see it.
 
hi doll,
the human mind is actually very strong, but unfortunately for different ppl the left brain and the right brain are of different strengths. some ppl are more logical than others, and some ppl are prisoners of their own mind. i think its true that we wouldnt know how strong or weak we are until faced with a difficulty and a crossroad like this.
 
Hi Stardust, yes, the human mind can be powerful and even rule over the heart if the situation calls for it. When we tap onto our logic, we are able to look at things from a more macro view less likely be reactive.
 
Stardust,

This is my advice:

Until you face the reality that he is in love (let's use "in love" loosely, since definitions of love are different for everyone, but I'm referring to the feeling, if you get my drift), not just with you, and not just out of symphathy but something deeper, then you will be able to be truly strong and tackle this problem as it is.

When you comfort yourself with denial, the effect is only temporary and leaves you more depressed later. It will eventually make your actions go around in circles, even when your thoughts are clear.
 
hi Nemo,

I have check this entire thread and found no mention of the acronym "BR" except yours. Without any context, I find your question out of the blue and clueless.

Is a weird question to pop up out of no where without any relevance to the topic in discussion whatsoever.
 
hi cappucino,
thanks for asking. =)
its gotten better, although i realised that my husband now switches off his phone when he goes to sleep, and he set a pin to lock his phone upon turning in on which he didnt use to do so. perhaps its a rebellion against my checking, but i thought he did the right thing to protect his privacy against me, i cant even trust myself not to look at his phone, how can i expect him to trust me on this?

perhaps he is indeed hiding some things from me, but i think its no longer important for me to know everything, as long as i trust him not to cheat, be it a physical or emotional betrayal.

i still feel blue and moody at times, and sometimes i gaze at hime and wonder if everything would still be the same as before, is he still the same person inside? is everything that he told me the truth in the best possible sense? at other times, when i look at him, i still feel the familiar warmth of security and stability that has kept me feeling happy and blissful for so many years, and i feel contentment.

but i do feel that i've grown from it somehow. from a love that is so blind, like a young child who trusts a parent, or a fairy tale one, it's morphed into a more practical love that holds the very real obstacles that i never thought would play a part in my life. instead of living for him, i feel the urgency to live for myself.
its fortunate for me that its kind of an off peak period at work, and i've been going out quite a bit with friends and colleagues. out for dinner, drinks (although non alcoholic for me now =) ), shopping...etc. and i'm starting to feel more like myself again.

i still love him to bits, and there won't be anyone who can replace him in my life and my heart. but i am actually reflecting on whether the give and take ratio in our relationship has been fair. i realise that sometimes i ask for things he finds impossible to give, simple things like taking time off to go on a holiday. perhaps all these are signs that i should really reassess myself proper.
 
yup,
i was using the word 'fair' because the word 'balanced' cannot go with the word 'ratio'.

i didnt mean it in a finger-pointing sort of way. =)
 
hi cappucino,
life is too short to waste away. but how do we really love ourselves more? i really don't know how. although i know that now its very possible for a person to live alone, free and easy for their whole lives, but i believe every person should have a beloved someone to hold and to be held by. now that i'm filling up the empty portions of my life with friends and family, time seems to fly by. maybe i really had too much time to be alone before, and i felt lost and alone.

doll,
unfortunately, reality is a tough pill to swallow. for people who has had a relatively easy life, it may seem impossible to accept setbacks. for those who has had difficult cards dealt to them, a setback may be just one in a long queue for them.
 
Stardust, perhaps I should have elaborated on what I meant by living in reality. The reality is that to be happy we need to take the risk of losing that happiness. There is risk in whatever we do or achieve; there is definitely risk in love. Imagine if you are constantly worried that you will lose your husband some day, would you be happy even when he is beside you now?

When I said to live in reality I had meant we accept the risk of losing something or someone we have, instead of being fixated that we are not meant to lose them.

Are people who have experienced more setbacks in life supposed to feel numbed by these setbacks. No setback should surprise or hurt them? I think it doesn't work that way. Usually, they show more courage and strength in dealing with setbacks quietly, so much so that they may look unaffected on the surface.

So, what makes the difference is perhaps not an so much of an easy life vs a tough life, but the absence or presence of courage.
 
Experience definitely would make us stronger. But, regardless, we will experience setbacks sooner or later. It isn't impossible to accept setback. Its part of life for everyone.

And keep saying that its too tough for ourselves will not make it any easier. Instead, recognize that its a phase everyone has to go through. You are no different. The realization that its not the end of the tunnel but a journey. There is light at the end. No matter how dark it is now.

The realization and awakeness from fairytale isn't a bad thing. Taking that positively, one would learn to appreciate and cherish what we have more than expect / demand for it. That's good for the relationship.
 
"Life is a gamble in which we don't get to deal the cards, but are nevertheless obligated to play them to the best of our ability"

So when we are dealt with bad cards, we simply carry on the game till the next game in which we may have better cards.
 
yap, for sure, we need to reflect and learn from the experience. Its how we take these life experiences. Positively or negatively.
 
that's the gambler motto!

but yes, i get what everyone is saying. i do.

i just find it difficult to get past this although i know he's telling the truth when he says he hasnt done anything unfaithful to me. why is it difficult to get past? because i know he locks his phone to keep me out of it. and i'm disappointed with the situation because its not like in the past when he's open about leaving his phone anywhere anymore. i just have to keep telling myself that its my fault that its ended up like this, that i violated his privacy in the first place that resulted in him locking his phone, and not because he has something to hide. i succeed for a moment, but then the devil pops up and whispers 'why would he lock his phone if he has nothing to hide?' i'd then shake these thoughts away and move on to doing or thinking about something else. because i dont dare to ask him about it anymore. this is one major reason why i find it so difficult to call myself silly and REALLY move on.

at least i find myself feeling more upbeat lately. no more crying through the nights alone. no more roaming the streets searching for him when he doesnt answer his phone at night. no more uncovering bumps on my head and bleeding scratches on my arms and body when my moods swayed so badly that i had to do something physical to myself just to divert the mental and emotional torture. losing control is terrifying indeed, and i wish nobody would ever have to go through this in their lifetime.
 
if i've got a prying wife and i'd really not wanna think less of her checking my emails, phone and stuff... then i think the best would be to restrict access... It is not so much of wanting to hide things, but rather, preserving a mental balance for both parties.

we all have some privacy to preserve, i'm highly surprised that some pple actually think this privacy should not exist in a marriage.

one of the biggest sins in life is simply - not to live it. pple often find themselves stuck either trying to prevent things, or trying to find out things... sometimes just live life and let things come your way. Why walk with an open umbrella on a nice windy day?

so wat if u dun have an umbrella? sometimes walking in the rain allows u to feel like u're living... and so does pain - without it, our joys are no more amplified and appreciated.

i've always gone into relationships to Love and Live Life... and not to prevent failure.
 
"for those who has had difficult cards dealt to them, a setback may be just one in a long queue for them."

u know, i'd very much prefer to have a relatively easy life... not really asking for much, but maybe having a father around who can help with some startup finances instead of having to work hard for everything from school fees to my motorbike, car, HDB and house...

i must admit, strong as i've been, sometimes i do envy those of my frens whose parents can help with the dpayment of their 1st car, or house, and offer them interest-free loans... In fact i wish i had a father to guide me thru the initial stages of my life. But that luxury and emotional offering was taken away from me before i even went into army.

i'd much prefer to have relationship setbacks any time If dad could still be around... one is totally irreplaceable, the other - we Think it's irreplaceable but it isn't, it Never was. it's just a generation of our own fearful thoughts.

try working thru secondary, poly, army even! and when u're out to working life - still need to take on extra jobs... and u tell me if u have any chance to enjoy a simple movie on a date. part-timing at restaurants, department stores and all that - u see couples holding hands and coming to patronise... u're serving them and Giving the best service to facilitate their romance, whilst all u get is $4.50/hr.

u dun just get stronger simply by going thru all these, u get stronger becos u Develop Positive Thoughts to overcome them in the Belief tat u will come out on top!

there are pple who go thru crap and are STILL going thru crap in their 40s... most of them Accepted it as their life too early, they now accept it as Their Lives.
 
Hi Stardust

Anyone can feel insecure; everyone has his/her own insecurity to deal with.

For me, I know that my own insecurity mainly stems from doubts of my self worth, not so much of what my bf does or says. So at times when I do feel highly insecure and tempted to seek reassurance from him for temporary relief, I stop myself. Why, because it's addictive, you feel high when you are fed with reassurance and you will go back to the person for more. It's not healthy for the relationship, and most important, I really don't want myself to become dependent on his reassurance to feel worthy.
 
You said you trust him but you still feel insecure. Perhaps it would help to find out if you're plagued by a sense of dminished self-worth.
 
i find myself getting better, then all of a suddden, when he told me he was going into JB with a group of friends last night,i had a nagging feeling that she would be tagging along too.

he had gone to a dr to get an mc for yday and diverted his calls to a colleague because he had stuff to settle and didnt want any of his other colleagues to know. then in the late afternoon he called to say he was going into jb for dinner with his friends. i suppose my thoughts started running a while when he mentioned the name of a friend who present at the ktv when he brought HER along. he told me he would keep his calls diverted while he was in jb as well, but i could reach him thru sms.

in the evening when i got home he was at home waiting for his friends to call before he went out. we were on the sofa watching tv while i was waiting for the darned central heater to heat up before i could take my bath. he suddenly stood up just as his phone vibrated ( it was in his pocket), asking me something, i cant even remember what he asked me - it was so inconsequential. i felt that it was as if he didnt want me to know he had an incoming sms or a call, and was trying to distract me. i just told him his phone vibrated, couldnt he feel it? he just just' oh really?', and answered it - all he said was ' hm, okay'.

i told myself i was probably thinking too much. but i had the most uncomfortable feeling the whole time. later that night on my way home, i called her number using a public phone, hoping to hear a local dialing tone instead of an overseas one. i know it was a stupid thing to do, but i just couldnt help it. unfortunately, the number was uncontactable, which kinda placed me in the middle. she could be with him in jb, and either turned her phone off, or she doest have auto roaming, or she's just simply not with him and her phone is turned off.

i dont know why i'm so fixated with this and her. but yet i still believe he hadnt done anything wrong. i keep repeating to myself what powder said some time back - if i trust him not to cheat, then dont question him for his lies.

i got frustrated when i got home, partly because of the really bad false contractions and backache i get recently, i started to cry. i didnt dare to answer my phone when he called because i felt so ashamed of feeling what i felt then, and also i didnt want him to know i had been crying again. he wouldnt be able to take it and i didnt want another fight on my hands. he;s already at his wits end at a wife who's so mistrustful. when i finally calmed down and answered his third call, he told me he was on his way back and reaching home soon. i wasnt expecting him to be back so early at 10 plus and my eyes were still red. so i slipped a sad korean drama disc into the player and turned in on, and blamed it for my puffy eyes instead.

nothing to this post atually, just wanted to share, and have you guys tell me to stop spinning stories in my mind.
 
stardust,

It is you against yourself.

If you really want to trust you have to stop all these nonsense. What is the point of calling and checking.. you don't get conclusive answer.. there will only be more doubts and questions.
 
hi sm,
actually i know there is no logical point in calling. i imagined myself asking him if she had indeed gone along with him, but i knew it'll just end badly. so what if yes? am i going to do anything about it? and if no, well, then i'll just only succeed in pushing him away further. therefore i chose to keep these worries to myself. i do feel that he's more caring towards me recently, and i love him all the more for it. and he's putting in very obvious effort in trying to spend more time with me, and offering back rubs when i seem to be in obvious discomfort.

and that's why i keep repeating this mantra - i do trust him not to cheat, so i have to try not to question him for his lies.

hi icy baby,
it was always my motto. but once i get wind of something, it has to be an obvious effort on my part to play dead or pretend there is nothing more to know that what i already do. its an ongoing effort.
 
Stardust,

I guess you know the reason yourself why you kept suspecting him when you kept saying that you trusted him all these while. You can lie to the world but not yourself. It seems that you are trying so hard to brainwash yourself that you trust your husband but deep down inside you just don't trust him.

Are you just temporary making yourself happy by indulging in thoughts that your instinct tells you your husband is not being unfaithful?

I don't agree with 'what you don't know won't hurt' or 'better to know nothing or hurt yourself further' and use it to escape from problems. More like denial and self deceit to me.
 
hi cappucino,
when i say i trust him, i trust him when he says he hasnt done anything wrong, and she's really not his girlfriend. but i still cannot lie and say that i'm okay when he meets up with her, answers her calls or replies her smses. i dont like it one bit, and i've told him time and time again that i really don't like her. perhaps this is why he feels the need to lie when she's with him and they're out together.

to me, when he lies abt being with her or that they are not in contact even though they may very well be on a daily basis, i feel that i'm the extra one in this circle. that they're sharing something which i'm not part of. if he were willing to be more open, then it wouldne seem so illicit to me and perhaps i wouldnt have ended up questioning even the most innocent thing.
 
Stardust, I feel your pain. You have a knack of penning your emotions down in words, and i've been through the same things. I know how you felt when you have insomnia and lie on the bed with all those images fleeting in your head; when you went searching for a public phone to make calls to check on your loved ones...rehearsing mentally what you're going to say if the other party picks up the call; when you are hoping so much that your spouse is for real when they say certain things, and have your hopes smashed again, and again; when you went wandering the streets waiting for that someone to return, but yet found it so difficult to just pick up the phone to call him.

While others have asked you to be more trusting, i'll say trust your gut instincts. If you have the means to find out the facts, do it...and face up to it. It easier said than done, i know.

Write if you must, cos it helps. But pls take care of yourself. All the best.
 
hi losingher,
i've read your thread too, and i do applaud the major decision you made to welcome your wife back unconditionally if only she chooses to. that was when i started wondering are men more forgiving than women.

as time passes, i feel myself stepping on more solid ground with scattered episodes like what i posted on wed. and like what i posted, i still trust that he's still truly mine, just that he made the wrong decision to lie about the wrong thing, which led to all these unfounded suspicions, and may take a long long long time to go away even though he really might have not done anything.

i believe you have gone thru hell and back in the recent weeks too. and when you felt as if you're back on earth, you're suddenly pushed back in again through no fault of your own. after all, all you did was to love her the way you thought was best, and you've also learnt that your idea of 'best' might not be what she needed or wanted. it may not be because of you failing as a husband, after all, emotions are hard to control, and she might not have chosen to hurt you this way, but just that she herself is lost right now.

if you truly want to work this out, then stay and be her guiding light for as long as you can take it, not any further, you do not owe her anything except a lifetime of happiness if she finally returns. if you cannot take any more of her indecisiveness, then you have the right to leave. after all, you're also a prisoner of your own emotions right now, no?
 
hi stardust,

I really feel your pain and i am in similar position as you. After a few months i had posted in my thread, I'm still stuck in this marriage, duno what should i do.

Same as you, im also willing to trust him again but the feeling is always there that he is still not telling the truth. But i think my problem is more serious. He went out everyday till wee hours in the morning and said only his gang of guy friends only which is untrue obviously. I truly understand your feelings now.

Im in no position to give any advices, just wish you to take care of your health and your baby. Don't think too much now as it's really not good for you and baby although i know it might be hard. Just try. Wish you all the best. Jia You!!
 


jj, understand how u feel, either u talk to him how u feel, get him to bring u along on one of the outing, if not stop thinking about it.

It either u take some action or stopping thinkng about it.
 
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