Innocent flirting?

Stardust, please stop analysing and rest your mind. Your body won't get the rest needed if your mind continues to be so active.

Tell yourself that the most important thing to do now is to keep calm and ensure that your baby is fine and that you will deliver him/her safely. Re-visit the issue with your husband later, say when the baby hits six months.

I postpone the thinking when I come to a bottleneck in my thinking. There will be no breakthrough to keep thinking. Breakthrough may come after you take your mind off the issue for a while.
 


Hi Cappucino,

The PI I hired worked for me, but he did not do well for another customer. I heard he was caught in the act, and that would really ruin it for you. So I would say try another recommendation by other pple you know / on the forum.

Stardust, I agree with Doll. It seems like at this junction, things are stalling. What you can discover in your capacity, you have already did. You are not ready for a PI, any negative outcome will sink u into deeper depression.

In such a situation it's better to bury the matter under for a while and face it when you are ready.

IMO, let your unborn baby inspire you to carry on. No matter what your husband is now or will be, the unconditional love for your baby is the stronger love. It needs a happy and healthy mother for the next few months.

Sometimes we believe ourselves to be responsible, dutiful and honest, and we think we will stay this way forever. But we may prove ourselves wrong when we fall in love in a such fateful manner and decide to have an affair.

Unless so strongly driven by our commitments and integrity, when faced with desire, we find our hearts cannot explain themselves and do what we thought they would do. When a person has an affair, that's when some of their worst qualities finally reveal themselves.

On a side note (but maybe not very helpful), he might be telling u about hugging and touching other girls, in order to pre-empt any evidence the PI might conjure. Then he could say, I've already told you about that. Well... just IMO, a possiblity.
 
hi doll,
yes i know, that's why i try my best to occupy my time whenever i can to minimise the time i spend myself alone. i'm still at a juncture whereby all the thinking is non voluntary. i dont sit and mope and revisit everything that has transpired because i know it'll only be detrimental. but for now, the thoughts has a life of their own and they pop in when least expected. but at least when i'm with friends or family, its easier to disregard them and then refocus my attention on something else. but when i'm alone, especially at nights, they seem to take over my mind. and that's why i wish so much for him to be with me so that he can drive away the demons that are so persistent.

small love,
yes, outwardly the matter is buried well and deep, but like i mentioned to doll, they surge out of nowhere at times. i know that love is unpredictable, and if he falls in love with someone else, then i'll only have to accept it and move on, and perhaps i'll find someone else who loves me again in time to come. i know for sure, that if he finally does fall for another person, it wouldn't be my fault, because i've loved him the best way i could, and i was the best a girlfriend could be, a wife is, and the best a mother can be. if that's not enough reason for him to love me and be commited to me and me alone, then i dont think he deserves my love at all.

i asked him how come he's not afraid that i might have an affair, and he says its because he trusts me 100%. and he believes that if we were going to cheat on each other, we would have done it long ago. but i do wonder, if i had lied and did the exact same things that he did to me, if our roles were reversed, would he be able to trust me completely again? if its a yes, then he's a bigger person than i am, because right now, everyday is a struggle, a conscious choice i have to make to trust his words.

checking his phone wouldnt yield anything now, received and dialled calls, incoming messages and set messages are eaasily deleted by the press of a button. and frankly, i dont even dare to check anymore. i've violated my morals twice, and twice i found something that was so painful. if i uncover another one, i think i'll be a broken person in spirit and heart, and i'll never be able to mend myself.
 
Stardust, I know you wish that he can spend more time with you to weather this through, but if it doesn't happen at this moment, then you must find other ways to "survive", to ensure your own mental soundness.

I've always believed that we can lose anything but not our mind. I will do anything within my means to guard my mind and sanity for I know that if I over entertain negative thoughts or negative comments from others, beyond self-management and fall into depression, I have to make so much more effort to get out. As a result, some friends were given up, some bfs became ex-bfs and the husband got left behind. I don't have time for hate or negativity in my life. There's just no room for it. My life must move on and there are still things to get done.

For example, "lower" the expectation on your husband for the time being. Tell yourself that as long as he comes home every day, no matter how late, to sleep, is good enough for now, till you're ready to dwelve deeper in the issue.
 
hi stardust, my baby was lost eventually. I totally understand what you have been through because i faced exactly what you are having now.

But...

Let your unborn baby be the top priority now because the mess from hubby can never be resolved immediately. It really takes time- to make him change, to make him understand, to let him prove and also to let our emotion to heal and taking many many years to rebuild the trust that was lost. How should i say.. alot of things we do or we can do and even the crying, yelling, venting, cold war etc, they just can't get the message into their mind.. only when something happen or when time is right, then they will wake up.

So let your mind divert to your baby first. Rub your tummy, talk and shower all your love to your baby who needs you now. You can do it!

Hubby's problem, tackle it slowly if there's still sign that ultimately he still wants this family. there's hope!
 
hi doll,
yes i understand very well that negativity shouldn't have a place in our lives. I've always been a positive n practical person,n i pride myself on being able to handle difficult situations. Unfortunately,when matters of the heart are concerned,sometimes it is easy to say, but much more difficult to do. To give myself some credit,i think i've handled this the best way i could. I don't think any of my friends would fare better should they fall into my situation.

Then again,trusting his words, i'm thankful that he still hasn't fallen into sexual temptations. The touching n hugging might have purely taken place under the influence of alcohol n fun. I myself wouldn't know if i would fall into such a situation should i get drunk myself,since its never happened to me. But to really understand, the only way is to put myself is the same situation, then perhaps i might be able to accept better. I probably have to wait out a year after i stop breastfeeding though,

he had to work late tonight, n he asked me if i wanted to tag along to meet a customer with him n his colleague. The moment i got on the car, his colleague started to reassure me that my husband is too busy with work to have a girlfriend.i guess he complained to him that i don't trust him. I don't know if i should be amused or not, knowing that in many cases, friends cover for each other. But don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that his colleague is indeed covering him. I appreciate him trying to convince me he's innocent,apart from all the lying,but the most convincing would be he himself. It'll take time for him to prove that he's no longer going to be the deceitful n lying stranger,but the husband i hold in high esteem n regard for all the qualities that attracted me over 10 yrs ago. I hope he can be patient with me n let time prove everything right.
 
Hi Stardust, I am not saying that you are not handling the issue well. In fact, your maturity level surpasses that of most people around your age. You can analyse issues by breadth as well as depth. But our strength can also work against us at times, you know? I have learned not to persist in things I have no answers for. I have the patience to wait out for the right timing and revisit the issue again. More often than not, time will tell.

You don't have to decide to trust him or not now. No need to make any judgement since you do not have all the information to get to the bottom of the truth. It's also not the time now, not that it's not important but certain things can wait especially when there is no immediate remedy. In this case, I hope you could let your mind rest for the time being. Be kind to yourself.
 
wannababies,
you can't imagine how sorry i am to hear about your loss. i hope u are feeling better, and that things will turn out well for you soon. yes, nothing we do or say will have any effect if the other party's mind and heart is closed. but i'm pretty certain that my husband is still the same inside, but have done silly things due to external influences. it just so happens that these silly things that he has done has affected me so badly, and i'm still trying to come to terms that these things have actually happened.

doll,
yes, for now i'm just letting thigns lie and focusing on curing my heart and mind. i know how tired and exhausted he is in his line of work, and i deeply regret being one of the factors that stresses him so. i wish he could see me as a comfort when he returns home instead of worrying about me right now. perhaps he needs a stronger woman. i'm too weak. but in all honesty, i feel that i only turn more dependent on him when i'm pregnant. perhaps i really would have handled this differently if i weren;t with child. yes the hurt and pain will still be as deep, but perhaps i could have dealt with it in a different way, you know? its just right now, i feel so vulnerable and insecure.
 
Hi small love,

Thanks. I will try to get PI recommendation from other people in the forum.

Hi stardust,

I don't check his emails, hp etc because I think we should trust each other. I'm not the sort to constantly call him up to check on him. Trust is to be learned as well as earned. But his suspicious behavior really compelled me to want to check his hp. In the past, he had his hp locked with password. Now, he simply carry it everywhere he goes. Like you, I violated my morals too. But I found out the truth... He has been visiting pros frequently.

I was in a state of denial too and was struggling emotionally. I wanted so much to believe in him and all those things that I uncovered can't be true. It is very depressing. I went for counseling myself and found that it helps me to release some of the pent up stress, to see things in another perspective and be able to re-organize my thoughts. Maybe you can give counseling a try too.
 
stardust,
no matter how down you feel, believe in yourself that you'll be fine!

i think you should take your mind of the current situation, i mean not ignoring everything, but rather letting it take a back seat.

maybe give yourself something else to achieve (to distract yourself)... like become an expert on baby illnesses, baby behavior, baby psychology etc etc...

or devote whatever time you have to your son, engage in some activity with him whenever you feel down.
 
hi doll, thanks.. im fine at the moment. its my 2nd m/c, thus i accepted when i see the bleeding. Just like stardust, when i needed him, he wasn't there for me, throw me with this bomb. he was also heartless to let me see gynae alone and endure the painful jab on my thigh to end the pregnancy and limped my way home.

stardust, its true that its hard to come to the term.. its 2 mths and im still trying to come to the term. but since he 'promise' no more, i wont talk to him abt it anymore.. heart healing really need alot of time. Probably think of my misfortune.. you have 2 dearest children with you to pass this tough time. don't give up

Cappucino, counsel seems to be good, mind to share the contact?
 
capuccino,
i suppose that is one of the worst things that can happen to a woman. what are you intending to do now? does he know that u've found out everything?

small love,
yes, i know that no matter what happens, i will survive. i still have a son that i love so much, and another son on the way that i already love. there's no other love that can be so encouraging and supportive, and this love is so pure and true. i garner strength from it.

i dont think i'll bring this up to him again, there can be no more improvement should i do so.

for the things that he had promised that he had never done, i believe him. for the things that he had done, it is already in the past, and there is nothing i can do to change it. the best is like you say, will just bury this for the time being, and hope that all these ugliness will never have a chance to rear its head ever again.

wannababies,
yes, heart healing takes a long time. i admire you for your tenacity and courage to come through this all alone, and couple it with the unfortunate loss of your babies, you're the epitome of strength. i hope you'll continue to be well, please come in here should you need to voice your thoughts. i find it a good way of organising my confused mind when i put it down in words.
 
stardust, if it helps, remind yourself of the big pic. What is the worst case scenario?

Even if he indeed cheated on you or something, being paranoid or worried about it changes nothing. It will not improve your marriage at all. Nothing changes about your current priority. You will still need to take for your kid. So, the up most important thing now is really to ensure you have a smooth and healthy delivery of the baby.

Nothing will ever improve simply because of the amount of time or worry you have. Not a simple bit. But, the negativity that consume you could so easily make things even harder than it already is! So, stop thinking about the what ifs.

The thing about trust, its is never and will never be a guarantee. But it is absolutely needed to remain positive. REALIZE and accept this fact.
 
hi milo,
yes, that's why i've finally come to a consensus, with myself. it'll have to be an even more concious effort that i have to put in to stop these thoughts. and i've got to focus less on external influences which i've got no control on, and place more focus on myself which i've got total control of. i was on the brink of turning into a wife that no man would want to return home to, but i couldnt help it then, the pressure was too much for me to take alone. now that i'm trying to see the light again, i've got to make changes to myself to be that someone again whom my husband looks forward to seeing when he returns home everyday.
 
wannababies,

u can try calling up AWARE, they offer counseling for woman or you can go to MCYS websiste (http://app.mcys.gov.sg/web/serv_dss_searchmain.asp. I called up the family service centre under the MCYS website. I located one of the centre which is near my house and went for counsueling. Note: Asking for help is not a sign of weakness.

stardust,

I need to get a job fast, at least be financially independent first. Got the money, get PI with evidence and then I will file for divorce.

I tried my best to be a good wife and supported him in whatever he did. I wanted to share his unhappiness and be there for him when he is down etc. Like you, I had hoped that one day he realised that I loved him very much and he would change or appreciate me more etc. Tried to get him to go counseling before it is too late to salvage anything but he refused to go. Put aside my pride and tried to talk with him but he just don't want to open up and talk and simply withdraw(All these were done before I knew about his betrayal.)

We have good reason to be hopeful. We had beliefs like if he/she loves me enough, he/she will change or one day he will find out that how much we loved them etc . Truth is, we can't change others but we can change ourselves.

I may have accidentally left some signs that I had checked on him. He just pretended as if nothing happened, I sensed that he could be suspicious that I may have found out something. Let him be. I'll just plan for the divorce and leave.

Like what smalllove said, " And since when a guy cheats, he has already fallen out of love, which means his heart is now open to new love, which comes when someone he finds attractive physically and emotionally comes along."

If his heart no longer wants to be with me, then just let him go. Though I still loved him, but I know it is not possible to be together. It is a struggle for me to let go. Even if I can forgive but will I be able to forget? Can I not be suspicious of him when he say he that he will work late etc. I have to be truthful to myself.

Let me share with you this quote from Eleanor Roosevelt: "A woman is like a tea bag- you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water."

So be strong, Stardust and Wannababies. We can do it.
 
I had come across this article about extra marital affairs in a forum in shoppinglifestyle and it is quite meaningful. So I thought of sharing it with all of you.

In most cases, especially in relationships, you will only get 80% of what you NEED and you will hardly get the other 20% that you WANT in your relationship.

There is always another person (man or women) that you will meet and that will offer you the other 20% which is lacking in your relationship that you WANT.

And believe me, 20% looks really good when you are not getting it at all in your current relationship. But the problem is that you will always be tempted to leave that good 80% that you know you have, thinking that you will get something better with the other 20% that you WANT

But as reality has proven, in most cases, you will always end up with having the 20% that you WANT and loosing the 80% that you really NEED and that you already had.

Be careful in deciding between! what you WANT and NEED in your life. Adultery happens when you start looking for what you don't have. "Wow, this girl in my office is a real looker. But it's not her Wynona Rider features that got me. I'm crazy about her because she's also understanding, intelligent, tender - so many things that my SPOUSE IS NOT"

Somewhere along the way, you'll find a woman or a man who will be more charming or sensitive. More alluring. More thoughtful. Richer. Have greater sex appeal. And you will find a woman or man who will need you and pursue you and go loco over you more than your spouse ever did.

Because no wife or husband is perfect. Because a spouse will only have 80% of what you're looking for. So adultery takes place when a husband or wife looks for the missing 20%. Let's say your wife is melancholic by nature. You may find yourself drawn to the pretty clerk who has a cherry laugh no matter what she says: "I broke my arm yesterday, Hahahaha . . .."

Or because your wife is a homebody in slippers and pajamas, smelling of garlic and fish oil, you may fall for a fresh-smelling young sales representative that visits your office in a sharp black blazer, high heels, and a red pencil-cut skirt.

Or because your husband is the quiet type, your heart may skip a beat when you meet an old college flame who has the makings of a talk show host.

But wait! That's only 20% of what you don't have. Don't throw away the 80% that you already have!
 
cappucino,
glad to hear that you've planned out a future without him. yes, its no point being with someone who doesnt love you anymore. let go, and then one day you may find that there's another person out there who's waiting to love you like you deserve to be loved. you have been the best that you know how to be, but if you're not important enough for him to keep himself for you and you alone, then any profession of love is just empty echoes.

i love the quote you shared. and i believe all women are strong at heart if we choose to rely on ourselves. i've got to find myself again, and build up my confidence so that i'm able to shine from inside once more. if one day i eventually realise that i was wrong all along, i'll only hope that its earlier than later. at least give me a fighting chance to find true happiness while i'm younger rather than older.

i always try to recell the time years back when he cried for me when i wanted to break up with him. that's the only time i ever saw him cry, and that was what convinced me that he truly loved me, and that this was the guy i was destined to be with. he said it once more some days back, that we're meant to be together.

if so, may the heavens above grant us the strength to walk through this time and emerge better people.
 
that's a very interesting article. =)

i wont deny that along the course of our relationship, i've met some pretty charming guys who are fun, easy to talk to, romantic, and yes lots of things that my husband isn't. but never once have i considered anyone else other than the one i've already got.

because his temper is rather hot, and i'm usually the quiet one who gets stepped over by everyone (when we were younger), i was often hurt by his cold shoulders and harsh words whenever we had an argument. i wont deny that at those times, i wanted so much to seek solace in someone else. even my close friends encouraged me to leave him because we went through a period where he was constantly putting me down, and expecting me to be at his beck and call all the time. i remember once i went out with my friends, they intentionally brought along another guy just to introduce to me. it so happened that on that day, my husband - then bf- chose to pick a fight, and throughout the whole day, i was on and off the phone with him and i finally ended up bursting into tears in public. i didnt have any appetite and couldnt eat anything for dinner that day, and i was so hurt and upset when this gallant guy bought me food and gave me words of comfort.

but the love i felt for my husband was already so strong then that nothing could break my faith in him that he would change and treat me better one day. in the end i won the gamble, because even though his temper is still as hot as i first met him, he's mellowed alot and i began to feel safe with him once more.

this is another gamble i'm taking. i hope that my instincts are as right and as accurate as before.
 
cappucino,

I am not saying the article is crap but it is simplistic although it may hold some "general" truths.

Firstly, in a lot of instances, the person that our spouses had an affair with may be way inferior to us in many ways - not only money, looks, status, etc etc, not necessary the 20% of what we want .. but they simply offer something that our spouses do not give us - it could be time, it could be attention, it could be sex, it could be anything.

Secondly, what is 80%/20%.. i am not really sure. sometimes people got into affair, they don't even know why.. it is the heart of the matter and not easily analyzed or understood. If it can be analyzed logically, then many affairs may not have started..

Just my observation..
 
I agree with SM. It's tempting to analyse why someone else would have an affair, but when it happens to you, you might end up surprising yourself everyday.

When someone has an affair, people may think they are in the dumps. Theorectically, this person also knows he/she's in the dumps, but somehow, there is some comfort there.
 
What I can say is:

a) Keep the communication between spouses going - if you find that you can communicate with your spouse - this is normally the first bad sign.
b) Keep the love going - exclusive time together is important (this may be deceiving though)
c) Keep the trust going..
d) When someone else gives you good feelings.. think about how that good feeling may be translated for your spouse..
e) Be on the alert when someone of the opposite sex gives you exceptional attention.. or you are spending a lot or exceptional amount time of a specific person.

When in doubt, the best is to walk away ..

Not fool proof. I always used these as a guiding principle
 
I must apologize first to Stardust for this piercing comments to come... but I think it will be helpful. I initially didn't want to say it but...

since you are sure about wanting this marriage to work, you are right that you need to give him a reason to come home happy to you everyday.

That is not just refraining from asking him his wheareabouts. But that is adding behavior to be how the "other" girl is. Putting it bluntly, find out from him how she's like, what does he like about her (although I think you might already know) and be that person, BUT in addition to who you already are.

If you can do this you are doing what you can in your capacity to fulfill whatever he thinks is lacking in you. Theorectical yes, but sometimes theorectical is the best bet. Just like how exams are still the easiest way to sieve out scholar-material in Singapore. Everyone condemns but who has a better way?

It is also stooping low yes, but if you are prepared to win back someone who now loves someone else, you have little other choice.

And one more thing, you need to stop verbally telling him it is ok for him to hang out at ktvs (I know it is part of his job). By now you should have realised that he has been using this as an excuse to alleviate his guilt (ie. my wife kind of knows, but she says it's ok). Do you know that many guys after getting caught by their wives in an affair, go back to the mistress later and say "oh we can carry on, my wife says it's ok". sounds weird but true.
 
And NEVER point out to him any of her shortfalls. That would make him more defensive of her and he will feel she needs him even more.

Ok my 3 cents worth...

Well all that is assuming you would want to win back his love. There is no right or wrong, since a fair share of people will also choose to close their hearts at this point.
 
sm,
your last point is possibly why he likes to hang out with her. since he said he thinks she likes him, she could possibly be giving him lots of flattering attention and saying things designed to stroke his ego. he said she keeps telling him how lucky she thinks i am for having such a great husband like him. i think its obviously designed to invoke symathy and pity since she had told him about her sob story with her ex husband and how hard she has to work to support her two children now. and that's why he feels sorry for her, and he recognises why i feel uncomfortable about it because he knows that's how many affairs start off.he says he wouldnt like her because he's not interested in a 'buy one get two free' scenario. he tells me he doesnt even think she's pretty.

he insists that there's nothing going on between them, and that she's just someone he feels sorry for, and can get along with. unfortunately, the way he tried to hide it really made it seem as if there were more to it than it seems, and that's why i get the feeling that he does like her too.

small love,
i dropped questions about her and that was how he got to telling me about how her life is. i feel that its an insult to me to even try to be like her. to him, he probably thinks i nag at him too much for being at work all the time, perhaps i have been, but only recently because he only spends not even 4-5 hours in a week with our son, and i just wanted them to bond. two months ago, my son has even stopped asking where his daddy was because he was so out of his life, seeing him only 2-3 times a week, and probably only about 2 hrs each time. i felt like a single mother then. thankfully he's making more effort to increase his time with him, and now our son is starting to ask for his daddy again.

i try so hard not to do anything that would push him away from me and go to her, and i feel sad that i actually have the need to win him back. i'm just going to try and be who i was before all this, which the furthest i can do. there's no way i'll stoop that low to be what another woman is. if he thinks he's happier with her than me,after all that we've gone through, then by all means she can have him. but he'll have to learn to live a life without me at all, which at this point, i'm pretty certain he would not. like he told me, and i believe so, that he loves me too much to even take a risk of losing me. i hope he truly means it, and understands the heavy responsibility and commitment this sentence carries, and is man enough to carry it through his life.
 
I have gone through this more.. the thing is.. in the initial stages, the feeling of wanting to win back the love is very strong.. but more often than not, the stronger the feeling the desire, the further our spouse may move away from us.

In fact the feeling of wanting to win back.. at times to prove that "our love" can withstand the test of time - is so strong that it blinded us.. I have been through this before.

Sometimes we think.. I love you so much.. I give up so much for you.. surely you can feel it .. surely I can win your love back? Again, it may be counter productive.

sometimes when we let go of the feelings, we let go of the desire to win back.. We just be happy and be ourselves, the result may be better.

I am still learning but I believe that to be able to love fully and be happy - we have to be happy ourselves first. If we are suffering because of our love for someone else - I doubt that there will be any good outcome - no matter how hard we try. Once we love ourselves, once we are happy - then it is possible for us to win back the love that was lost..

This is just my thoughts.
 
Small Love, I disagree. its never about winning.

I agree that one should be tactful but no, its not an exam and getting straight As doesn't guarantee success. Theortical is never the best bet. Its probably some of the preparation one should have. But the best bet is to be completely flexible to the need of the situation. There are so many variables, too many to be quantified nor analyzed. No white paper can prepare you for life itself better than going through it yourself.

Its strange how you speak of winning back, as if the assumption is already that he is in an affair. Frankly, the battle is already lost if one is looking at winning. The goal is really just happiness really. Be it with this man or not.
 
sm n milo,
yup, that's exactly why i feel its an insult to me if i even have to think of winning him back. am i not deserving of his love? if i had to work to make him love me, then that's not love, isn't it?

i have no desire to 'win' him back. if i hang up the clothes for him, its because i know he's tired and needs a rest. if i give him a massage, its because i know he needs a soothing break. if i kiss him goodnight and goodbye, its because i love him and wantto express my love and affection for him. if i listen to his worries and troubles, its because i want him to share his burden and release pent up frustration and stress. if i hold his hand and put my head on his shoulder, its because i want him to feel that no matter what he faces, i'll be there to support him and be his guiding light.

it'll not be because i want him to feel obliged to love me in return.
 
While it takes two people to create a relationship or marriage, it takes only one to end it. It will still take two to rebuild or mend a relationship or marriage, and much more effort has to be put in by both. Your spouse or partner must want it as much as you do to mend things.

Whatever you give or are prepared to give may not be necessarily what your spouse wants to receive or ready to receive. You can be doing all the "right" things but not touch his/her heart if his/her heart is closed on you. It's tricky.
 
stardust,

Read my last post August 04, 2009 - 6:26 pm:

You have to love yourself a little more, take care of yourself a little more, focus on yourself a little more - take a little time off from those suspicion because right now you can't do much with them.
 
"You have to love yourself a little more, take care of yourself a little more, focus on yourself a little more - take a little time off from those suspicion because right now you can't do much with them."

Agree with SM. You have been focusing too much on being a good wife, and it's wearing you out because you don't feel that appreciated now. You should take time to be yourself instead.
 
sometimes it takes an incident to make us realised that we need to be kind to ourselves and make an effort to love ourselves, esp when we are so busy with work and kids.

I have learnt to take time off to have personal time to do things that I like (e.g. exercise and shopping) and buy something to reward myself sometimes
happy.gif
. You will be surprised that it actually gives you more mileage to carry on your duties as a wife and mum and other roles as well.

Ladies, we have to take care of ourselves well!
 
doll,
yes i agree, the word 'communication' is very subjective. it may take on one meaning with on person, and another meaning with a different person. i recognise that marriage is not a finality, but a work in progress. it can be a happy place to work in, and for some others it may not be. so far our marriage has been a happy one, and we've been able to weather anything through together. i'm confident that given time, this'll be a good lesson and a bad memory. and i hope we'll be able to have a laugh over it in time to come. i thought i was a very good wife, and made my husband proud to have me as his own, but recently i proved myself wrong. and now i have to try and fix myself.

sm,
yes i did read. i realise that i do have to love myself so that i have the capacity to love others too. but in the past weeks, i must say, that there were times where i didnt like myself at all.

meagain,
yes, i do indulge in shopping, massages and facials. i actually told my husband for everything that i buy, my mood gets better and he very enthusiastically say 'go out and buy more!'

just to share,
we were having supper at home last night. i was preparing the newspapers to be placed on the table and i accidentally dropped his key pouch. it wasnt closed tightly and when it dropped, a ring that i hadnt seen before fell out.
for a moment i couldnt breathe and all i could think was - 'please, not again, please dont let it be anything significant.' and i could literally hear the voices in my head screaming at me not to think the worst. my hands were trembling uncontrollable and i asked him about it. he said it was a magnetic ring and it was meant to bring luck in his work. he bought it last week with he was out with his colleagues and he didnt dare to tell me about it because he was afraid i might misunderstand.

so okay, i accepted it and didnt think any further, although the image of her wearing a similar ring did pop into my head for a moment.
 
Hi Stardust,

I said all that to tell you not to lose yourself. When I say all that now, you very firmly disagree... so later on if things get rough don't forget what you believe in.

Doll made my point, you in a way are already focusing too hard to be a good wife, and I suspect (maybe) you might be subconciously asking yourself what does this girl do to make him feel so loved, and you might eventually resort to following it. this is a very natural thing to do when you are desperate and you are currently and luckily not in this situation now.

I feel a good way to prevent yourself from feeling beaten and down is to be aware that when you do something to make him happy, it's also because it will make yourself happy. We are all pursuing happiness whether or not on the surface we look like we are doing it only for someone else.

So always remind yourself that that is enough, and you will not feel depressed over what do do not see reciprocated.
 
Hi Stardust,

Don't think so much about the ring. IMO, I would say likely she gave it to him. But it would be natural for him to put it in his key pouch, after all he has to keep it somewhere. Since he does feel for her (in a certain way), he is not going to reject it in front of her.

It might be tempting but best not to assume a conclusion for anything inconclusive, so putting it out of your mind like you did is good.
 
hi small love,
yes, i understand what you're saying. if things do get rough, i'm not sure if i'll change my beliefs anymore.

He asked me that if the ring was really given to him by another girl, would i think he'd be that stupid to even take it home with him? i mentioned that sometimes it would have slipped the mind when one is busy and tired, and he might have placed the ring in the key holder temporarily and meant to transfer to his briefcase which he leaves in his car all the time, but just simply forgot about it. then he said this kind of thing can forget meh?

so like you said, it can go on forever if i insist in declaring him guilty. but if i view him as innocent, then all the explanations makes good perfect sense. each incident is innocent when it stands alone, but when lumped altogether it may lead to fishy conclusions.

i keep telling myself to continue giving my trust, and that's what i'm going to do. he's starting to lose his patience with having to explain himself for each and every action he commits, and he's tired of this episode already. i dont want this to result in him attempting to do something really wrong just because i was suspicious of him. i'd really jsut rather die than that. so no matter how difficult it is for me to bear, i'll still trudge on. like i said, i myself am responsible for my own thoughts.

meanwhile i'll just take in whatever things he says, i'll trust and i'll believe. because i just know he's still the very same man i married.
 
"yes i agree, the word 'communication' is very subjective. it may take on one meaning with on person, and another meaning with a different person."

People always say that communicate with your spouse. But what if your spouse refuses to communicate with you or chooses to lie? In this case, communication does not work. The marriage is likely not to work anymore.

"i recognise that marriage is not a finality, but a work in progress. it can be a happy place to work in, and for some others it may not be."

Yeah, marriage is not a done deal. It's just another phase in the entire journey of love. The journey never ends, not even with death of one party.

"so far our marriage has been a happy one, and we've been able to weather anything through together. i'm confident that given time, this'll be a good lesson and a bad memory. and i hope we'll be able to have a laugh over it in time to come."

Like I have said earlier, both parties must want it as much to mend things to make the marriage work again.

"i thought i was a very good wife, and made my husband proud to have me as his own, but recently i proved myself wrong. and now i have to try and fix myself."

Why do you think you aren't a good wife? From what you describe, I feel you are a good wife but is a good wife all that a man needs and wants in a spouse?
 
stardust,

Sad to say, I think so far we have over-indulged you. I know from your thoughts that you are matured and can think and analyze things - perhaps over over-analyze.

But having said all these, it may give you some comfort in being able to pour it here and hear and different responses. Ultimately, it does not make much of a difference unless you and/or husband change the behaviour.

You are able to articulate well but what is the point of being able to and being able to analyze and "think too much". You need to settle down and focus on the action - on yourself - what you need to do. Not much point talking too much. Yes, we can engage with you with more analysis and view points but at the end of the day - only you can make the difference to your life.

My entry is not meant to be negative. I have shared all I have and so do many other readers. Now it is for you to do something.

If you really want to trust your husband then don't ponder over the other things - don't even question. This is the action you must do. Don't question about the ring and then regret that you should not question about it.

I wish you all the best
 
I agree with sm on what he has said. We have oveindulged, everything we have said, likely stardust has known.

Likewise, I do not mean to be negative, but take care not to appear not to be suspicious / forgive him in front, but pour it out here instead. That would be a double life, and you might lose sight of your own life, goals and dreams.

Just tell yourself what you need to do, and just do it.
 
hi doll, sm and small love,

i myself have realised that i might have been going around in circles. i've already told myself to make up my mind and since i've chosen a path to take, i should stick to it and shake all other thoughts away. any further and it would be bordering on whining already.

right now i'm trying my very best to create activities to occupy my time and mind, go out with friends and colleagues, book massages and facials, spend time with my son ...etc

slowly i'm beginning to feel like myself again.its just that sometimes i think of something, and so i decide to post and get it out of my system instead of having it roll about in my head. i need to see it in black and white before i can have a clearer picture, erm, know what i mean?

you have no idea how sincerely grateful i am to have you all replying and offering different perspectives which i might have overlooked should i have chosen to keep everything inside me. but of course i know ultimately i myself have to work it out.

i'm looking forward to the next phase of my life now, to see another beautiful baby that was conceived in our love and happiness. i'm looking forward to seeing how my elder boy would react to having someone new, and to grow and accept his younger brother as a permanant part of his life soon. i'd love to see the joy and love on my husband's face again when he finally holds his new son in his arms.
 
Stardust, like what SM and Small Love have said, live out your decision, but at the same time do keep a clarity of mind for it will guide you, moving forward.
 
"I need to get a job fast, at least be financially independent first. Got the money, get PI with evidence and then I will file for divorce."

Yes for getting a job and be financially independent again, Cappucino. But why do you have to file for the divorce on infidelity? There are other ways that are more cost and time effective.
 
stardust,

I know the need to write sometimes to release.. I do that as well.

You may decide to keep a blog instead.. like what I did.. but again, it is up to you.

Writing to release is ok .. whining and ranting is fine as well.. as long as after that we don't come back to the same point.. and we take some action.

Good luck to you.
 
hi doll,
yeah, after all these i really can feel the difference between having a clear mind and a confused one. will take more take in keeping my mind clear in future. hopefully there will be no more monsters jumping out at me ever again.

sm,
i'll need to work harder on not returning to the same point again. just so happens that whenever i've psyched myself to move on, something happens to pull me back to the original point again. its pretty tiring having to revisit everything after having struggled so hard to let go and move on, you know? i need to build up my strength and stamina now.. gotta start eating better food and start preparing my weekly bird's nest again. havent got any mood to eat much or bother to prepare in the last 4 weeks.
 
sm and small love,

I'm not using this article to analyze why affair happened. I’m looking at this article from a different perspective, for me to think about how I would like to appreciate the spouse and marriage. I agree with SM on his post on keeping the communication going and all his guiding principle.

As mentioned in the article, no husband and wife are perfect. We can't just keep harping on their shortcomings and what things he/she is not able to give us or achieve? Just be appreciative of what they have done and what we've got. Love them for who they are and not who we want them to be. Think of what we can offer or give them instead of expecting them to give or offer what we wanted. While we may be thinking of how they had not met our needs, expectations, not spend enough time etc, perhaps they may have the same thoughts about us too. Sometimes, we may get too complacent in the relationship that we took each other for granted. In the absence of communication and willingness to open up and talk honestly, small misunderstandings can get accumulated and we can become so resentful of our spouse.

Sometimes, we tend to rely on our spouse’s intuition on our feelings or needs etc but they may not know exactly what we are thinking or what we want unless we tell them. We would keep thinking that "he/she should have known..." or "he/she should have realized...and when he/she didn’t do the things that we had “expected” then we got hurt and angry. I want to remind myself that in very challenging relationship problems, it seems so easy for us to take flight, be it to start over with someone new or to be alone. And given the accumulated disgruntlement we had of our spouse, the allure of the grass is always greener at the other side of the fence is very tempting. Just don’t throw in the towel yet, watch where we are headed and make immediate adjustment to ourselves as necessary. Relationship problems are never one-sided.

Doll,

ya, I am aware that we can use other grounds for divorce and not necessary on the grounds of infidelity. If I pursue the grounds on infidelity, at the end of the day, the lawyer should be the one who has the last laugh. Guess it is the pride lor.

He has been visiting pros here and overseas, since our marriage till now. He is leading a double life, portray himself as a responsible guy to his family, friends etc but in actual fact he is such an irresponsible person. Told me that he wants to have children but he is simply not interested in me. Try to initiate but he just brushed me aside. Think he just use me as a facade to show his mum that he is a family man and has got married with a 'family'.

He is also verbally abusive towards me but very helpful and nice to people around him. To think that I trusted him so much for so many years only to find out recently what kind of person he actually is. Really shocking, hurt and depressed.
 
samll love,

Would you mind to tell me roughly how much did you pay for the service of the PI and for how long did the PI manage to uncover the evidences needed?
 
cappucino,

there's only much one person can do. if you feel that you've tried your best and your husband is simply not responding, perhaps it is indeed time to pick the pieces and move on.

sometimes when a person changes, it can be so slow that you may not have noticed until one day you find yourself facing a complete stranger.
have to be very careful not to let yourself fall into blues or worse, depression. i was reading another thread earlier today, and chanced upon a link for an anti depressant. out of curiosity, i checked that page out and realised that i myself am experiencing most of the symptoms - feelings of helplessness, hopelessness, suicidal thoughts, feeling that my life is not worth living, suffering from insomnia...etc. i feel alone and detached even when i'm in a big group, with my friends and colleagues. i still joke and laugh as usual, behave as usual, but i'm not 'connected'. when my husband went out last night, i couldnt sleep and the darkness and silence was suffocating me. the loneliness was so unbearable. i had to turn on the tv in the living room and switch on the lights so that at least i can imagine that he's at home sitting on the sofa watching tv. even then, i found myself listening for the opening of the door to indicate he was finally home. i cried myself to sleep at last, and when he got home, he gently woke me up to tell me he was back and to tell me he's not drunk and didnt do anything wrong. the moment i heard his voice i felt such a huge boulder lifted off me and i could sleep in peace.

you seem to be much more collected and put together than i am. if you've finally found in yourself the energy to move on, be it work on the marriage or leave, it will turn out alright. after all, 10 years down the road, this'll all be a distant memory.
 

stardust,

Whatever you had experienced now, I had experienced it too. I had also accidentally found out about my symptoms and came to realize that I had depression. But by reading up more about depression and what are some of the causes helped me to cope with it. I think it is more like self awareness, self exploration, emotional awareness etc. Knowledge is power.

Don't be too absorbed into believing that you are not a good wife. Sometimes, when we hold someone too dearly, care too much for the other person it doesn't necessary make the other person appreciate us more. Sometimes they may just take us for granted. Sometimes, the need for us to feel love and validated can just push them further away because they may feel suffocated by us. They feel that we are too needy and dislike it.

I've read the following in an article and would like to share with you:

1)You engage in the "pursuer-distancer" dynamic

In this dynamic, one person in the marriage constantly pursues the other for more closesness, confiding, or time together while the other constantly avoids interaction.

Over time, the pursuer gets more desperate, hurt, and angry and the distancer gets more sullen, shut down, and rejecting.

What can you do?

* Take responsibility for your part of the dynamic. This means learning how to communicate, be assertive, act generously, and own your character flaws.

* If you often have a conversation in your head about divorce, you should let your partner in on it while there's still time to save your marriage. One large study found that 25% of men were completely surprised when their wives served them with divorce papers. And 75% of the time women initiate divorce.

* Seek professional help. Just because it feels hopeless doesn't always mean that it is.

* Make efforts to confide in your partner. Even if you're frustrated with the state of your marriage, confiding is a demonstration of need and trust; this behavior may help to get your relationship on a better footing.

* If you engage in the pursuer-distance dynamic, try switching your role. If you've been a pursuer, back off for the next 2 months and see if your partner comes to you. If you're a distancer, try approaching your partner much more consistently.
 
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