P.I evidence

miloice

Well-Known Member
u talk as if you know the TS and knew exactly what happen? Get real. No one ever said for sure he is at fault. Denise only suggested that possibility judging from his behavior. While some others suggests that he might have contributed to it. But you are so sure that its TOTALLY DISGUSTING and UNACCEPTABLE.

Stop standing on pedestal. We are talking about real situations here.
 


powder

Active Member
Doodi,

i think pple like u should learn how to actually do something, feel something, before suggesting something.

u are the person to die before u ever get to do anything becos u simply spend too long waiting to satisfy your own idealistic fantasies, therefore u never really get to do anything in life.
 

heartbrokenb4

New Member
Miloice - Only in the first 4 words of my post did I specifically refer to TS. I certainly do not know the details of his case, but I am certain that regardless of how exactly it happened for him, the person who strayed first can't possibly be called a victim. I know by first hand account how painful such betrayal feels like in marriage, so I was merely extending my sympathies to him. My subsequent comments after those 4 words are meant for any married couples where 1 spouse has cheated on the other. So feel free to switch between the gender terms I've used like he/she, him/her or husband/wife. And it seems to me that you have a notion that a marriage that's free from infidelity can no longer be REAL? It might be increasingly uncommon, but isn't it kinda insulting those married couples who have worked very hard to keep away from infidelity if you mean to call them unreal?

Powder - It is really shocking how easily you get provoked into throwing accusatory and condemning remarks directly at a fellow thread member. I suspect my statements might have struck a chord with you somehow?
 

heartbrokenb4

New Member
It just saddens me that these days, many in our society shift blame on their partner's shortfall when they themselves are not strong enough to resist temptation, see through the commitment, and just simply take an easy way out like an opportunist. Makes marriage feel like a job- find a new job first then tender your resignation.

It's probably also the same reason why more and more pet owners are abandoning their pets these days. Fortunately, betrayed spouses being a human, can still speak up for himself/herself. Really pity those abandoned pets.
 

denise80

Active Member
Doodi,

I find that you are rather one-sided in your views towards infidelity. I am sure many of us frown on infidelity as well. However, in many real-life situations, when a partner strays, the other is not entirely absolved from blame.

Your view on infidelity due to pure temptations is rather shortsighted. To me, a partner who strayed is just one of those many symptoms of a marriage that didn't work out and guess what? A marriage consists of two parties. Yes, two, not one. Therefore, when communication with two parties break down, the symptoms could be anything such as infidelity, violence, emotional blackmail, cold wars etc etc that eventually may or may not lead to a divorce. So, how can all blame just falls on the person who strayed? If these 'victims' do not reflect, they will continue to find themselves in a situations where they are always the ones who suffer because they never learn from marriages that fail.

Lastly, how is this issue associated with pet owners? They are totally different issues we're talking about here. If a person is betrayed by another and continue to feel that he/she is the one being abandoned, then they'll only wallow in self-pity and not reflect on why the person strayed in the first place. Many times, it's nothing to do with physical attractions. Haven't you read in many threads here that many victims claimed that THE OTHER WOMAN is less attractive than them and that they were shocked and couldn't reconcile why their husbands strayed?
Think, think, think before you show all your righteousness and sympathies for victims only.
 

scope_guy

New Member
Doodi,

Denise80 has her points. But infidelity in a world where love is like but a joke... nothing really saddening.

In fact, can you yourself confirm your love is true, your man or woman is the One?

LOL~

You can even give women one thousand chances... and they can still stray. Don't be saddened by infidelity. Be saddened by mortals' craze. LOL~
 

heartbrokenb4

New Member
denise80,

Let's break it down clearer. Yes it takes two hands to clap, so whether a couple's relationship is going well, or otherwise, both are responsible. But there has to be a boundary where one spouse's action cannot be accounted for by the other spouse. Where does this boundary lie? If I stretch your reasoning a little further, does it mean that if one murders his/her spouse because of intolerable behavior, the spouse who died is also at fault? (Maybe only in self-defense from a brutal attack, but that's not my point.) Certainly violence is an extremity, which is why the law has to take care of it. But similarly, it must be that infidelity is a serious enough offense that makes our law also grant divorces based on grounds of adultery? I have never stated that the spouse being cheated on does not carry any burden for the failed relation, but a FAILED RELATIONSHIP is not a justifiable reason for any one party to commit adultery or even worse, violence. Since both instances create hurt to the utmost level that it can affect an individual's social functioning, in the eyes of the law it has to be set as things that are out of limits for a marriage. Certainly there are also other types of behaviour that come under same purview, which is why there is a "unreasonable behaviour" clause for the court to also decide on a case-by-case basis. I may be being overly technical here, but only because I see the need to segregate accountability for a failed relation vs accountability for committing infidelity, which many people seem to lump conveniently together as the same thing.

My reference of the word "victim" has been specifically meant for cases of betrayal by infidelity. Sure, if your spouse cheats you of your money, then you are a victim of swindling. But that is a separate issue which is not the focus of the topic in this thread.

So I emphasize in short, a failed relationship is the responsibility of both parties in the marriage, but when it rolls over to one party committing adultery (as in the same argument with committing violence), that act which crosses the boundary can only be accounted for by the one who committed it. Period.
 

denise80

Active Member
Doodi,

I still sense that you feel strongly that the person who strayed in a marriage must be solely responsible and accountable for the failed marriage. Well, you can continue thinking this way and not reflect on how you have personally contributed to the failed relationship. In the next relationship, if you aren't going to improve such thinking, I'm not surprised if things go wrong again.

When it comes to the affairs of the heart, how can we use law to determine who's absoultely at fault or otherwise? LOL and don't you know that every similar case that goes through the 'LAW' often can result in different judgments and sentences, precisely because nothing is BLACK and WHITE?

When you said..
"So I emphasize in short, a failed relationship is the responsibility of both parties in the marriage, but when it rolls over to one party committing adultery (as in the same argument with committing violence), that act which crosses the boundary can only be accounted for by the one who committed it. Period."

I see that if you're a parent of two kids who quarrelled, you are more likely to punish the one who started the fight. So the kid who lst exhibited violence will be at fault in the eyes of 'law'? The other is then the victim? And therefore the aggressor is the main cause of the poor sibling relationship? So, if you're the parent, will you just punish the kid who started the fight? Ignoring the fact that perhaps the kid who fought lst is not at fault at all??

Imagine a married couple where the husband killed the wife. The husband is convicted in the eyes of your favourite LAW and must be accountable for it. The wife is deem as innocent. Touch your heart and think...why would the husband kill the wife??? He's a psycho in the first place? Yea..maybe..then why did the wife marry him in the lst place??? Poor judgement on the wife's part?? Or...did the wife do or say something to the man to antagonise him???

If your partner is purely accountable for the failed marriage because he strayed, then does it mean you are not at fault? Means you're perfect and pristine and just need to find someone better in your next marriage? Do think about it. Every failed marriage is a learning experience. Don't always use law or PI evidence like many people here to address or explain something that only the hearts understand.

Oh yes, you asked,
"If I stretch your reasoning a little further, does it mean that if one murders his/her spouse because of intolerable behavior, the spouse who died is also at fault?"

My answer is, "Of course!!!" For making poor judgement, for antagonising the aggressor, for neglecting the mental health of the partner etc...!! Of course, not in the eyes of your favourite LAW. You mentioned that you were a little too technical in your reasoning..that's what I meant...how can you be technical in analysing relationships for what accountability??
 

heartbrokenb4

New Member
For the record, let me do this more simply:

"oh, my spouse is so lazy I can't tolerate it anymore.."
"oh, my spouse is so cheapo..."
"oh, he is so uncaring..."
"oh, all she cares about is her work.."
"..she neglects the children..."
"...he never buys me flowers.."
"...I've had enough of arguing with him..."
"...never contributes to house chores..."
"...squanders away my hard earned money..."
"...can't even make a decent living..."
"...eats like pig..."
"...so selfish..."
"...such a stupid fool..."
"...not attractive anymore...."
"...doesn't make me feel good..."
"...doesn't love me anymore..."
....
....
...
..

And SO ????

(a) There's this someone who makes me feel more loved so I'm going there now.
(b) I have to get help to sort out our issues.
(c) I'll get a separation/ divorce since things will never change.

Has anyone ever been forced to do (a)????
 

heartbrokenb4

New Member
denise80,

I'm utterly shocked at your blunt & irrational arguments, but I think I see how your logic works now.

I guess when I'm knocked down by a car while crossing the road, I should say sorry to the driver and pay for the damages to his car too.

*sigh*
 

denise80

Active Member
Haaa being knocked down by a car has nothing to do with a marriage! The driver doesn't even know u. How rational is this logic of urs? Think u really attribute all faults in a marriage to ur partner. It's ok. It's ur marriage, not mine.
 

scope_guy

New Member
Denise80,

What Doodi said could be quite correct... no matter what, if you are married, at least divorce first, and don't break the rules.

That's what he/she is stressing on. No matter what a law is a law.

I don't think she understands that if you cross the road ANYOHOW and you get knocked by the car... he/she thinks the car can be liable?

Marriage is merely a formality. People stray for all sorts of reasons... and right or wrong reasons. There is no such thing as absolute in relationship without knowing the truth. I think Doodi needs experience in life...

It's very hard to convince someone who tries to seek rules in a game when it comes to relationship matters.

Doodi,

No one is forced to do (a), but no one committed infidelity always because of (a). Women are different. Some are smarter, some are just idiots. And fate, however, applies to everyone.

You want your marriage... you want to conform to social norms, to not disappoint your peers and parents, to be there with the father as mother to your children... but you discover, your true love has appeared, the husband is not your true love, marriage is like an obligation, you feel real life, or you simply want a better life...

If you have two diamond rings on the floor...

How many women will only pick up one? LOL~

There are many reasons for infidelity. One of the reasons is, marriage is artificial, love and fate are God-made.

How lawful can you be in the face of love? If my woman made a mistake, I'd also forgive her out of love, not out of marriage or vows.

You can't cheat your heart, but you can cheat the judge... many lawyers are doing that. LOL~
 

heartbrokenb4

New Member
denise80,
I guess you didn't register at all when I already clearly stated that a "failed relationship is the responsibility of both parties in the marriage", but being responsible for a failed relation does not mean being responsible for the spouse committing adultery.

Anyhow doesn't matter to me how you see things too cos your marriage is also not mine.

Have a good life.
 

heartbrokenb4

New Member
Marriage is a kind of contract recognized by the society thru some governing laws. Adultery/violence by one spouse is recognized as a breach of such a contract, but certainly by no means is the law meant to judge feelings. THERE'S NO WAY LAWS CAN DECIDE WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG IN RELATIONSHIP. But not being able to do so doesn't mean the society shouldn't set up some guidelines to as recourse to help protect the individual who may have been hurt through a breach of a marital contract.

Infidelity is not always simply defined by just sexual acts, and I'm not proposing that we use laws to measure. I'm just referencing to the fact that such laws exist because society agree that something must be erected (pardon the pun) to help prevent as much as possible the nonchalant breach of trust in marriages. If there isn't a widespread problem, no one would bother to think up some ways to deal with it. Just because we can't totally plan for and prevent flash floods doesn't mean we don't try to put preventive measures against it's devastation if it is starting to occur frequently. And if one day the majority in the society accepts that infidelity can be part of a marriage contract, then such laws will be abolished.

It is basically the feeling of being betrayed or a breach of trust that is the concern when talking about infidelity in marriage, not the exact content of what the infidelity entails. So taking the option (a), which I should have made clear that it is going to the solace of the opposite sex to seek intimacy which one should be getting from one's own spouse, would surely hit the core in anyone's heart as a betrayal in trust. Certainly if both parties in the marriage are doing the same thing, then I guess both don't already feel any hurt from each other so there isn't any need to protect either one.

Forgiveness is another complicated aspect that is very subjective to individual's needs. There are good books by therapist that try to help people learn about forgiveness, and religion is certainly one avenue to help deal in that. I personally think true forgiveness can only happen not just when there is love for the partner, but also when the partner shows sincerity to repent.
Forgiveness can only start when the person causing the hurt stops doing it.
 

denise80

Active Member
I'll keep it short. Your view is clear to me. You said, "marriage is like a contract". Then u shld be fine since ur partner leaving u can be viewed as an employee who simply breaks the contract. No heartaches involved, yeah?
 

heartbrokenb4

New Member
Well then, if your employer breaks your employment contract by firing you without good reasons, you also shouldn't feel anything right?
 

scope_guy

New Member
Doodi,

Marriage is a subset of relationship. Relationship is not based on society.

Once upon a time, society in Europe prefered fat obsese women... Try tell me to fvck one... LOL~

Marriage is indeed a contract, but this contract is not as the others. Even in court for such a contract, a lot of variance comes in which are all personal except that the parties are seeking a third party (a judge) for a decision.

There is no such thing as a real therapy...

It's either love or self-delusion or denial.

So what the court refuses your divorce application and upholds the validity of your marriage contract? Will you love your partner or will your partner love you?

There is no such things as preventive measures, my dear. Those who have taken God's little tests know... Only those who don't understand love and relationship and/or yet to have taken the test will believe in preventive measures... as many would tell me this rubbish:
Relationship is a decision.

Think about it, Doodi.

The society is not my problem. On my side, what I can do for my women, I do. If not the judge then the society to decree that your divorce application shalt fail, you won't hence love your partner or vice versa. Nor shalt your stepfather wants you to marry fat pig with his high society that you shalt love him or her.

Do you believe in love, Doodi? LOL~

BTW, what good reasons will you want from such an employer? Your employer is a jerk, that's a good reason not to be around...
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
"I am certain that regardless of how exactly it happened for him, the person who strayed first can't possibly be called a victim"

The insistence of a big blanket to cover everything. Is there always a victim in most cases? Mostly, lots of victims wannables that need to find a blame and self pity. Wake up.

"It just saddens me that these days, many in our society shift blame on their partner's shortfall when they themselves are not strong enough to resist temptation"

it saddens and frustrates me even more that our society are full of up-tight self righteous jokers that think they have figured out every relationship and issue out there and shift the blame entirely on temptation. What a joke. There are so many contributing factors. Temptations and lust isn't all there is in an affair. How simplistic and naive can one get? What about all the push and pull factors? The basic personality and character of a person. Their values and will power, exposure etc. The number of factors are so many. All you see is one single point that you pinpoint and stay completely BLIND to everything else.

"And it seems to me that you have a notion that a marriage that's free from infidelity can no longer be REAL? It might be increasingly uncommon, but isn't it kinda insulting those married couples who have worked very hard to keep away from infidelity if you mean to call them unreal?"

That's an awfully wrong assumption. A relationship can surely be free from infidelity. Its precisely couples need to be realistic in recognizing how human and complex the issues are that they can successfully deal with them. Not by condemning. Do you even think that condemnation and blame is what makes a marriage work?

Your assumption that anyone that disagree with your one track idea is somehow condoning affairs basically illustrates how shallow your perception really is.

We do not condone infidelity but we need to understand the reasons for it. Its not as simple as temptation. Tell me how you could guide again infidelity by standing on the pedestal like this? Humans are emotional. You, me everyone could fall in love with more than one. When the spouse becomes a total stranger, and the home, a hell he/she cannot break lose from. But yet someone else that so emotionally connected with. Tell me, how to face the spouse that behaves exactly like you?

Don't assume you are the only one in this forum with 1st hand experience. That, again is such a very naive assumption. You speak like a frog in the well.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Typo error. Correction in bold italics.
We do not condone infidelity but we need to understand the reasons for it. Its not as simple as temptation. Tell me how you could guard against infidelity by standing on the pedestal like this?

Back on the point : isn't it kinda insulting those married couples who have worked very hard to keep away from infidelity if you mean to call them unreal?"

Not at all. I'm strongly believing and convicted to that in my own marriage as well. But, I don't do so by sticking to some rules or bible I impose : Thou shall not cheat. Nor do I hang the 'cheater'.

I do so by recognizing how human both parties are and how to be completely flexible and dramatic in handling the issues and keeping the relationship healthy. And if it fails, I would reflect. Take steps backwards to reevaluate and do everything possible to savage the relationship and spouse that I cherish so much. And if its still fail. I would be disappointed but I would respect and not blame the other party. Because I understand it takes 2 to tango. No relationship is one sided. And hating and blaming does nothing. It doesn't save the relationship, neither does it make me feel any better. And surely, it will not make me a nicer person in any way. It will only carry the bitterness with me and affect how I look at future relationships. Yet, so many are sticking to such condemning ways. It really saddens me.
 

scope_guy

New Member
I need to add something to Milo's points.

On temptation...

For instance, I sincerely love more than one woman. Do you think that's infidelity? I sincerely love more than one women while I fvck care the rest of the 1 billion women on Earth.

It's fated, and what has infidelity got to do with real love or matches made in heaven? LOL~

On Free from infidelity...

It can be done if you define infidelity as pure cheating other woman, fvck them but never loved them.

The whole concept of relationship with regards to infidelity minus man-made laws on marriage, or artificial intervention on heaven's will lies on this word: Cheating.

You don't cheat your heart, you can't love 1 billion women in most cases... LOL~ But that doesn't mean you ain't cheating if you love more than one women and yet you declare you only love only one.

What is love anyway? LOL~

So the whole concept of infidelity actually lies on what you define as cheating. In human relationship where sex is in consideration... it's always love.

In the same regards, if a woman commits infidelity, the other man is not my concern, because I don't love the other man.

And for me, I rule out commercial sex when it comes to defining infidelity. Commerical sex is just commercial. ^.6 Nobody expect love to be involved anyway. LOL~

By the way, you don't WORK a relationship. It's funny people try to WORK a relationship, like you can use some Viagra to work on sex...

If he/she is not the one... it's already a problem, and one party must be in self-denial mode to just 'drag' on, or work very hard.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Scope, your view on love differs from mine. I definitely believe a relationship can remain faithful. Love is needed for a relationship. But not the other way round, not everyone we love, we need to have a relationship with. Love is only an emotion. We can cherish the emotion within and move on.

Love doesn't conquer all. Compatibility & feasibility real life issues don't take the backseat. Love isn't some magic that could remove all issues. It only give one the drive to overcome the adversities. We definitely need to work the relationship. We have to face all the problems, it doesn't go away. Its the love the keeps us going while the couple work on the relationship together building more happiness together.
 

scope_guy

New Member
Milo,

We can remain faithful to ALL the women we love. LOL~ The moment you choose to cheat your heart on one woman... you are cheating yourself, and that's infidelity... to heaven. LOL~

If love cannot conquer all... it'd not go beyond sex. I might as well fvck around, cheating every woman...

For instance...

In terms of marriage, to me the legal part is just legal issue. The thing I am focused on is if you are committed to me by your choice, the vow (seemingly unimportant, since it's just mouth talking to many) will be more important to me and you must keep it.

Which is once a woman of mine plays infidelity, I expect her to revive the vow with her own efforts. Once broken, I don't care about what fvck laws... because this is not a simple contract. It's in real a relationship. Once you break your own vow and you won't revive it, what commitment is there?

I'd be free... with the law thing dangling only.

So if I view things in your version of love... It's going to be pretty messy because I'd definitely going to cheat myself, and I can't.

If the girl I like likes me, if there are two and I have to make a choice... choosing one kills the other. What if the one I chose turns out not the One...? LOL~ Or what if both are the Ones?

You see?

The problem about relationship when it comes to commitment is that this is not a game of Women's Charter nor it is one of lust or stages, or to many women that of possessiveness.

Love does keep man from other women... That's correct. But love does bind all matches made in heaven, and keep the rest out... Which is, a very high order thinking thing.

Whenever I was with someone I love, I totally bo-chap other women with a super high libido. LOL~ However, I must also be frank, it's impossible to expect me to cheat myself when (say) two beloved women are in trouble, I'd choose to ditch one of them for Hell and choose one for heaven.

It doesn't work that way either. It's either all of us go to Hell together, or we go to heaven together, to illustrate the point. To give up any love ones, to choose one to go Hell, to cheat my heart is already infidelity.

My version of love is ultimate... pure and powerful. That's why... I don't bother about OTHER women, plus avatars. I am looking for the SPECIAL type.

Which is, Milo... if you want the ulimate best... you have no choice but to search for the One or Ones for us men.

I am not saying you are wrong. But... It's a divine joke... from God. Love is no magic, but in order for love to be qualified, it must be all powerful... and pure. In a way, how can a girl or woman be qualified for my love if she's dimwitted and stuck happily in social norms coupled with self-denial?

Move on...

If heaven has the match or matches already made, how are you to move on? Why? Commit heavenly infidelity and fvck another to ROM? LOL~ Or subject God's arrangement to mortal's artificial rules...?

Pick one, Milo. ^.^

Do we mortals have a choice? There is only one key one'd choose to heaven... or hell. It cannot be worked upon. The minute you cheat your heart, you betray your love, it's game over.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
There is no such thing as the ONE. Every good relationship will feel like the one. Most married believing in the one.

Wait till you finally build a relationship with someone that you cherish enough to commit in marriage and sustain that and see if your theories has any value.

If the relationship is taken for granted, quite surely, it will faint away with time. It has nothing to do with the ONE or not. No relationship is made in heaven. Its up to us to develop and nurture it. There is only compatibility, timing, and opportunities. The couple just didn't have what it takes to make it work. Is there surely a heaven and hell? Maybe, but I'm pretty skeptical about what churches and people are painting it to be.
 

scope_guy

New Member
Milo,

I am no Christian either. But it does help to illustrate the reality of relationship, including the use of 'The One'.

I have told you already... If you have to select one woman for Hell and one for Heaven... the moment you pick one, you fail.

This is about the 'One'.

It's not a theory. You haven't come to the understanding of I am saying. Hopefully, you won't because... that means heaven has chosen its God of Love, and a challenge has been posed to you.

Which is why I value marriage vows more than what fvck laws; love can't be ordered, not even by supreme court. If one breaks the vows and cannot revive the vows to make me take them again... Hmm...

Through thick and thin, through whatever fvck... that's commitment.

Your skeptism is encourage-able... But underworld does exist. ^.6

No matter what, I respect relationship as what it should be, and as divine as it should be. If a girl really loves me so, she must prove her love powerful and pure because I believe only in eternal bond... and only true love can support eternal bond.

Neither do I go to Heaven alone, nor she goes to Hell alone. If she goes to Hell, I'd follow. If I go to Heaven, I'd pull her up.

Milo, my version of love goes beyond death... And beyond death of the women, I don't need more 'working' to tell myself how much I'd miss them.

It's not a theory, my dear. Love is love. LOL~
 

powder

Active Member
Doodi,

dun flatter yourself... i was not provoked, just irked by your illogical sense. it was a judgement call on the type of person u are, and seems that i'm right in any case. accusation is if i'm wrong.

for a 2nd post, i'm surprised u can be shocked... is this the first time u talked to someone other than your frens? or has everyone else been nice to u and unwilling to tell u how naive u actualy are, with a severe lack of a rounded views.

and hey, being "a fellow thread member" makes me have to be nice to u? u tok cok, i tell u that u tok cok. it's that simple, do excuse your frens for not telling u straight in your face when u tok cok.

ya ya your statements struck a chord with me... u're indirectly accusing me of adultery now, aren't u?

that's why pple are telling u that u only see your views.

this part is the most telling of your 1-track mind - "I guess when I'm knocked down by a car while crossing the road, I should say sorry to the driver and pay for the damages to his car too."

- your one-track mind decides that the motorist is at fault... u are not bothered with how it happens, why it happend, u're just there to stand and accuse the motorist.

why i say u're dumb is becos if u had any cow-sense and some form of Life-experience, u would be able to realise that some pple cross roads illegally - dun follow lights, jaywalk, or worse - listen to ipod/sms whilst illegally crossing.

do u realise u put the life of the motorist in jeopardy by crossing the freakin road in a haphazard manner? u could be dead, but he risk going to jail, he risk losing his licence, his family risks losing him... he suffers long after u paid your stupidity with your life... he has to suffer the next 30-40yrs becos u were so darn irresponsible in crossing that road.

so pls dun give me the bullshit arguments u present... absolute bullocks. it's incredulous that u deem it fit to even present your opinion here thinking that u're pretty smart when u're absolutely stupid.

if your husband strayed, he strayed... the sooner u accept that, the better your life will be... u dun have to go around in vigilante style to fight a lost cause simply becos u went thru it.

u are the one with the agenda...
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Memories and emotions definitely can go beyond death... in the living that is. For the dead, its all over. Unless, there is life after death. For the memories of my dead loved ones, I really want to believe there is. But, no one can know for sure.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Powder, realistically speaking about the car accident analogy. She would be dead. It doesn't even matter what happens after. She will never have the chance to say sorry or feel sorry for her stupidity.

I'm utterly shocked at your blunt & irrational arguments, but I think I see how your logic works now.

I guess when I'm knocked down by a car while crossing the road, I should say sorry to the driver and pay for the damages to his car too.


Honestly shocking. How she sticks to her delusional views like the holy truth. It completely reflects her analytical skills doesn't it?

THERE'S NO WAY LAWS CAN DECIDE WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG IN RELATIONSHIP. But not being able to do so doesn't mean the society shouldn't set up some guidelines to as recourse to help protect the individual who may have been hurt through a breach of a marital contract

Another stupid thinking. What protects the marriage is what the couple does. Not rules, be it official or society pressure. This is a clear example of the 'success' of our education system. Guidelines, instructions, policies, directions to be given... TOTALLY mindless people that need to feel protected over things that they should have total responsibility for themselves. They need the society to pressurize all to ensure conform to the 'norms' to feel good and secure. Even if others are not having affairs, it doesn't stop her husband from cheating. Instead of looking within, she look for some kind of auntie support to give moral condemnation.
 

scope_guy

New Member
Powder,

I don't date avatars, remember? Especially avatars from Singapore... No thanks.

Milo,

Love is not just memories. No need working... True love goes beyond death. LOL~

Well... May did say I am Super Romantic. But love is love. When you understand what I am saying... you'd understand why I have been teasing Hweebs. LOL~

She's the type who's likely to fall for Jack Neo; since she won't even explore Scope. LOL~ And Scope's the type who would resist Wendy, and the type who'd love her beyond anything.

In short, I don't like people come talking about love or marriage or infidelity as if they are their own Gods or Goddesses.

BTW, take it easy on Doodi. If she's a girl, she's probably too young...
 

powder

Active Member
scope,

1stly, she's not an avatar... 2ndly, anyone u date in real life could have an avatar... lastly, both of u make a great match on the intellect.
 

scope_guy

New Member
Powder,

LOL~ Now you are in the match-making business.
1. Firstly, she's an Avatar;
2. Anyone I dated in real life in Singapore didn't start from being an avatar;
3. You have to be at least an alien to assess an alien's intellect. LOL~

But Doodi is really funny. I look forward to you people's exchanges. Pure entertainment... LOL~
 

heartbrokenb4

New Member
Good to hear so many responses to my comments. There may have been some misinterpretations, there may have been some opposing views, but I suppose that's the limitation of human communication. As I once told a friend, if only I could just touch someone's shoulder and all my thoughts and feelings are transmitted to him, then this world would be a better place.

Still, it is good to be hearing what you guys have to say. I guess I'm a frog in the well, I guess I've had not enough relationships to learn from and I guess I'm not the only one too.

So much for reasoning, it's time to share a little bit of my burden in my heart and hope this thread is not that misplaced for me to do it.

I'm actually a guy (Doodi is just something I whipped up quickly...never tot about the gender implication) who has been married for 13 years. I never had any serious relationship before and neither did my wife. I'm a usually shy and quite type and she a bit more jovial. Thought we've always had it good and things were stable. Then things started to change, over 1 year ago, she claimed I'm not giving her security, and there were some incidences with my brother's family which I still felt were mis-communications that I didn't handle well. My leaving the job also didn't help. Wanted to try doing things on my own, but seem to be getting nowhere. Then one day after she switched to a new higher paying but more stressful job, told me she wanted to leave and move on. I was shocked and in a state of denial. I know I've been lacking in income (she earning more than me for several years already), and I don't have too much great personality traits to compare to some of her highly successful banking colleagues, but I felt certain that what we shared in relationship through the years should be worth more than material gains. Didn't know how to salvage the situation but kept patient and just tried to tell her what I think is more important. A week later she gave me a separation deed to sign, I refuse. 2 weeks later, she seemed exasperated, then revealed to me that she already found someone that potentially can move on with so asked me to give up. My totally broken heart and shattered self-respect still did not cause me to accept the truth, so I held on tried to figure out what can set things right. Urging her to try counseling didn't work, so I went myself, only to soothe my broken soul. 3 months later, she went on holiday with him, and I can't bring myself to swallow my pride anymore, so decided to stop talking to her.

Another 2 months, she still going with the guy (though still home on weekdays), and one fine day she came home to me and cried. Said sorry for hurting me but she not happy with that guy cos always quarrel. I tried to remain calm and asked her one important question, "Have you decided to leave him?" She said no, and so I didn't feel I could do or discuss anything further. Asked her to try counseling to help herself. Initially agree, then back out a few days later. So we were back to status-quo of no communication. She continued going with him for the past 1 year every weekend (sometimes longer). And I thought a lot throughout this time and finally decided that it has to be over. So today, I dropped her an email to state my decision to sell the property, split then move on.

She returned home just now, started weeping and tried to talk about how to sell the apartment but got interrupted so badly by her weeping that we had to change the discussion into why she's crying so badly. Apparently she's still feeling miserable and yet at the same time she still can't let go of those reason where I can't meet her expectations. She also said she's feeling terrible about getting herself in this mess. I asked her why she's still with him then and the reply is that she has no one else left. Good lord!!! Now what am I to make of all these? Feels like I'm going through the same confusing discussion about our grievances in the beginning when I tried to talk her out of going with a 3rd party.

Eventually I managed to convince her that repeating this conversation is not going to get us anywhere and the next best thing is to discuss this in the presence of a professional counselor to help us sort out how we can move on.

So that's the story of my puny broken relationship experience. Still not over totally, so would appreciate any views from the more experience folks here. Good or bad doesn't matter, cos at this point I don't know what to feel anymore. I won't bite back in any way, I promise....just wanna hear what's out there for now. You might not get the entire picture but the gist is all here. Further questions also welcomed if you need to get a clearer view. Thanks.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Some questions :
- is it misinterpretations...
- or your intent to mislead with your initial responses?
- Or do you really think that all relationships is that clear cut and that the society should have some guidelines to condemn the villian to save the 'victim'?
- What are you doing with all these ridiculous logic and crazy road accident analogy? Do you really actually think all accidents is clear cut the driver's fault?
- Why is Denise's points and logic shocking to you?

I give the benefit of the doubt that you are still in acceptance state of your troubled marriage hence your strong feelings of unjust. It takes 2 to tango, there is no way you can work the marriage yourself. She is dragging because emotionally she is confused between the 2. If you leave it to her to decide, she will let it hanging for the longest period so that she need not decide.

It hasn't been easy for her either, she is probably in a total confused state herself, struggling with her own guilt and selfish thoughts.
 

powder

Active Member
yes doodi, try telling your wife to wait til the divorce before she dates...

when u are ready to understand how the world works, then ask... else it's pointless...

every fcuking day of my life i have to deal with pedestrians who put my fcuking life and family's well-being at risk whenever they jaywalk and disregard their own road-safety... every fcuking day there are pple who try to take me away from my family by crossing with their backs to the fcuking road.

until u see 2 sides, it's gonna be pointless...
 

scope_guy

New Member
Powder,

See? I don't date AVATARs. LOL~

Doodi,

The conclusion is pretty simple: Ditch her.

You have given her many chances...

My woman did the same thing. Treated me to dinner, told me our 'love' wasn't as strong as I thought it was... then she went off...

After no contact for long long time, I just found a new woman. LOL~ Sad. But... ... If she is still seeing that man, just part ways. If she isn't, you could stay with her for a while and help her cool down, then move on.

You should start searching for another. I got to sleep. These crazy women, because they are crazy, you must be more steady. LOL~
 

heartbrokenb4

New Member
Thanks for all your thoughts on my situation. It's somehow pacifying to find so many equally frustrated people here in this thread. Hahaha.

Guess what I'm going through are just normal stuff in everyone's lives. So, I'm also just gonna get a normal's night sleep tonight.

Cheers!
 

denise80

Active Member
Sigh, u just don't get it. If my employer breaks contract with me, I'll seek for compensation. I'll feel angry but I'll get over soon and find another job. How is this comparable to a partner who betrayed u in a marriage? Also, I never thot abt whether u r a guy or gal whn I wrote those posts. Now that I know, I wonder y u have such flawed logic over car accidents or employment contract by comparing them to a marriage??

Btw, i've never thot infidelity is a moral thing but what gd does it do u to make ur partner be accountable for a failed marriage? How does it help u with ur future relationships if u dun reflect what went wrong on ur part?

After Reading ur story, it seems to me u understand where the problem in ur marriage lies but in all ur previous posts, all u r saying is that ur partner is the one at fault? U r quite a confused one here.
 

powder

Active Member
goodnite Doodi,

i hope u find clarity in the coming months... there's no hard feelings or anything... i just dun hold back on my words when there's urgency in learning and realisation. there's just too many clueless blind pple out there who have seen so little that their world is narrow as a line...

your circumstance is neither foreign nor new to me, i have been frens to both guys in your situation, as well as girls... on both sides of the fence. my best advice would be for u to respect your spouse regardless of whether she is right or wrong, whether she has broken your heart or made your day... loving a person does not require the possession of body nor mind nor heart. loving a person is what we do willingly and it is a part of us and our life - that we give with no conditions attached.

marriage has its vows, vows are made by men to enforce... yet the heart can never be enforced. we all have our secrets deep within... that's Life. respect Life, and everything will come into place...

your best gift of love, will be to be there for the person u love - even if his/her heart longs for another... of cos, fair enough - not everyone can do that... but not everyone is capable of loving the way love is... so when it gets too tough, just take a break from it and remember Life often throws curved balls at us... it is up to us to grab, or to simply walk away...

happiness doesn't come easy to pple who live in the past, becos memories only gives us momentary happiness... true happiness comes only when u live in the present. and true happiness is in knowing who u are and what u are... Live Life like it was really ending, and u will find strength in the toughest times...
 

heartbrokenb4

New Member
denise80,

"...but in all ur previous posts, all u r saying is that ur partner is the one at fault?"
Please see how many times the word "fault" appears in all my previous posts, and in what context it was used for. There's a subtle but big difference between "fault" and "responsibility".

I'm confused mostly about what my wife has been doing lately. It's hard to explain to anyone else in this world the situation I'm facing using words because exact meaning of words may not be conveyed accurately, what more when command of language comes into play (and I'm just talking about myself here).

Also, when an analogy is used, it is not equating the situation to be the same but merely attempting to illustrate the rationale of an argument further. No need to read so much into the exactness of the analogy used.
 

heartbrokenb4

New Member
Scope,

"...The conclusion is pretty simple: Ditch her."

Sounds simple, but hard to do. It's similar to a decision like amputating one's legs when you know they are becoming a severe risk infection, but still not giving up hope that there's a chance of recovery.

(Again, just an analogy here, so people, please don't start about how it can be the same again...)
 

scope_guy

New Member
Doodi,

Not hard to do. It seems that you love your wife very much, and your wife encountered a player. LOL~ If you let her divorce you, chances are that guy will play tired of her soon.

She might be keeping you like a spare tyre...

Ditching her doesn't mean you don't care for her or you pretend her to be dead... She'd still be around, you can still visit her, kiss her and have casual sex if she approves.

In any case, the vows are broken, the relationship is no more in real, you are left only the legal proceedures. Nothing else. You must face this situation. Your 'wife' is no longer your wife...

I suggest you start searching, and don't be dragged on by your wife to become a spare tyre. You have already given too many chances... I only give my women 1 chance, at most a 2nd one.

Look...

There is no infection, start searching, Doodi.
 

Kraftig

New Member
Dear all

I would like to seek advice from all here bcoz I am having complicated problems.

I discovered my wife had a 1 year affair with her ex colleague in 2012. Was already thinking of a divorce then. Maybe at that time god does not allow that as many things happened. Shortly after my discovery (I have solid evidence and these proofs cannot be disputed), she was hospitalised. After discharged her dad died. She went into depression and was suidical then. Also my 2 kids were young then (abt 17 and 14YO). So I told her to lead her own life and I lead my own life.

We tried to keep this away from her family. So I still went to my in-laws house for CNY dinner. The whole family went on a holiday in 2013 (I want to see if things can work out again but sadly no). Another trip in 2015 but this time was bcoz we want to have some holiday with my kids. Not bcoz of her. I shared room with my son on all overseas trip. Other than that we lead out lives and talk only when necessary.

I found someone in 2014 and we became soul mates. Wife recently discovered the relations and hired a PI to followed me. We did not go hotel but I believe she had videos of us holding hands and maybe good bye kiss. That's all.

I discovered that she was already planning a divorce and I had no choice but to file for divorce first on ground of unreasonable behavior ie deprivation of sex. No sex for at least 15 years.

She is now contesting the divorce on ground of adultery and even want a bigger share of assets. She also wants me to pay for her PI costs.

I would like to find out if there is ground for me to counter file using my evidence of her initial adultery as a mitigating factor and NOT to pay for her PI. Anyway also to have a fast divorce without admitting to adultery for me (I am sure that PI does not have evidence of us going to hotel. Bcoz we never went) .

Hope to have some constructive feedback from all her...... Thanks
 

PrettyInPurple

New Member
i think the best would be if you can capture the pics yourself on your phone instead of hiring a P.I .. would be a waste of money imo ... follow her around if you need to ... when you have the pics show it to her & see how she reacts before you take the next step ...
 

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