Innocent flirting?

Yes. I understand that only a specific group of guys go online to chat up girls for sex and ONS.

Marriage Vows exchanged at ROM :

Will you, __________________ take this man/woman ______________ to be your wedded husband/wife, to live together in the legal estate of matrimony? Will you love him/her, comfort him/her, honour and keep him/her in sickness and in health and forsaking all others, be faithful to him/her, so long as you both shall live?
Answer: I will

The impt point is : you agree to love, comfort and honour each other, forsaking all others to be faithful to each other.

It's a mutual vow to each other. I didn't say husbands are to be caged /domesticated. Just asking for mutual respect and honour. If you honour each other, why share intimate things with someone else ?

I don't understand.
 


Ameline,

u dun have to say it, becos what u're seeking is an exclusive relationship that requires caging, controlling, demanding.

u dun seem to understand that there are some things that i would tell a best fren, pastor, boss, peer, mum - which i dun see a need for my wife/gfren to know.

u prob live in a world where husband must tell u everything... Sad part is - women who think like u, normally cannot even handle some basic truths. as it is, some can't even handle Porn.

so whilst u want the truths and all the knowledge... u might be too narrow and unexposed to handle things... and u will Cry Father Cry Mother over the simplest issues...

pple like u hold on to the marriage vows like how students say "techer say" or kids say "my father say"...

but u Never actually have the ability to ascertain your own set of Mind and Opinion becos u're simply not exposed nor well-read.
 
Sometimes, I visit sex live chats sites. For what? simple... sexual cravings, same reasons why men generally like porn.

Is there any intention to cheat? NO.
And I have no issues letting her know. Of cos, sensitivity to her feelings is important. Hence, I normally do so in private. But, if she comes and see what I'm doing, I have nothing shameful to hide. And I have no issues with her doing the same either.

We are sexual creatures. We have been coping with our sexuality all these yrs even before meeting our partners. Why must we suddenly expect our sexuality to completely became dominated by our spouses? Everyone of us is different. One cannot expect their partner would be completely fulfilled sexually by only sex with our partners.

There are healthy and responsible ways to handle our sexual urges. We continue to do so even after marriages and be faithful at the same time. There need not be a conflict here.

Lastly, I don't need the marriage vow template to educate me how to respect my partner. We are happy coping well without the need to restrict each others thoughts. That is not respect but control and domination. If we respect our partners, do we then learn to understand what it means to them rather and conform to some expectations?
 
just the usual previews.... I don't waste money on this kind of things. its a group chat... there are those that would pay credits to go private. Not for me.

Same with porn. lots of free content online. As hardcore as one can get liao. why pay?

Its like visiting a strip bar to enjoy a dance or two. Its purely for sexual and not to build relationships. In the chat, its the usual bullshit dirty talking.
 
Ameline Neo (ameline), I completely disagree with your initial post.

If you can't handle milo's post (and I have a feeling you're the type who can't), I will give you a female perspective on this.

My fiance watches porn and vists sex sites, with or without me, and it doesn't bother me at all. I myself surf porn, visit sex blogs and exchange correspondences with other men. If I see anything interesting or weird, I will call him to come see too. If there's something I like, I will suggest we try it. He does the same. There's nothing wrong with it and as far as we're concerned, is perfectly normal and healthy.

I really don't see what the fuss is about. You're overreacting.
 
Doll... exactly. The gal wants to get the visitors to buy credit and go private with her. Tat's how they earn mah. Also, members can reward her with gifts like virture bears or flowers that cost them credits.
 
Actually, many young gals are offering such live video chats behind their parents, family and partners. In a way, its safe but easy money. They reveal their bodies, do dirty dancing and perform sexual acts for the online audience with their identities protected. But, there will always be the indecent proposals coming from the online customers.

Morally, it becomes very controversial. Because visiting these sites is indirectly encouraging the trade. But, its much better than prostitution or being porn actresses.
 
I see! The one-on-one is a private show whereby the working girl will dance, strip and pleasure herself on webcam for the customer?

I am currently reading "Extra Confessions of a Working Girl" by a working girl based in London. The sex scene is very colourful there, much more happening compared to what I learned from the books that recorded that of Singapore (Book titles - can't rermember).
 
Cos it's very interesting mah... I'm also damn curious.

I know there are several people doing that on LiveJournal, except no need to pay. But no group chat session... mainly 1-on-1.

Some of them are selling their used undies too.. lol

edit: the girls, I mean. Nobody wants used men undies hehe
 
I'm actually ok with porn. Spectator sports is fine with me.

It's online sex chat with women I don't like. I'm not overacting.
 
AB, definitely there is market for all kinds of fetish, not just women for straight men. Gays also watch porn one.
happy.gif


Those married guys that need to buy the panties online are so deprived man! He is either hiding his true self from his partner or his partner isn't accepting him at all.
 
Ameline,

actually the real concern is when the line is crossed. To me, its when the mate is making personal friendship and bonding during these chats and making it from virtual to becoming real life relationships.
 
it depends.... those that reveal their faces probably doesn't need and want to hide their identities in the 1st place.
 
"There are healthy and responsible ways to handle our sexual urges. We continue to do so even after marriages and be faithful at the same time. There need not be a conflict here. "

Milo, I agree with you about the fact that we can handle our sexual urges yet continue to remain faithful.

However, I can also identify with Ameline's feelings. Perhaps to us (or maybe just to me, not speaking on her behalf), we view faithfulness holistically... which means faithfulness is not just constraint to the physical act (of whether he sleeps with another person), but it's also a matter of the heart. Of course I'm not saying watching porn or visiting sex sites is being unfaithful lah, that will be too extreme. What I mean is by engaging in the acts, albeit virtual (for example, having online sex), it's akin to being unfaithful to your spouse, isn't it?

Personally, I don't feel it's about being narrow minded here. It's probably just a mismatch of expectations (of what is deem as faithfulness) between Ameline and her HB.
 
Mismatch and difference is normal. What's important is for the couple to identify and respect them. If they cannot reach a common ground. Don't accuse the partner of not respecting her. Its simply having key difference in basic expectations and needs.

This could simply point to the fact they are NOT COMPATIBLE if they cannot compromise on a mid point where both are comfortable with. I'm sure mature adults can handle this fact without accusing the other party of wrong doing.
 
Yes Milo, that's exactly what I think too.

If Ameline already knew her HB is like this before she married him, then there's no point complaining. It's a different story if he wasn't and has changed along the years. Only they both know the answer...
 
Anyway, I am sick and tired of people abusing the marriage vows to back their pov. LOOK at the relationship and marriage. Not the vows... that's some fixed template written up for so long. If someone is sincere and committed, he needs no vows to become more or less committed. Similarly, for someone that doesn't believe nor value it, citing the vows has zero meaning nor value too.

I believe in my marriage, commitment and things we both do in it together daily and not what we exchanged on that one single moment, instance on that ROM day. Nothing will change even if the no one came up with this marriage vow template and it didn't exist.

If one doesn't think twice about giving up the relationship, what is the use of reminding them about the vow? Can eat one issit?
 
Ameline,

it would be way more constructive if u addressed with a person in mind... like your husband, or bfren. than to throw a generic question... becos your partner may be addicted to such stuff and have need for it... he may also be 19 yrs old with raging hormones...

there's 101 reasons and unless u're specific, it's hard to address it. it's definitely not the same set of advice for a 19yrs-old, a 39yr-old and a 69yr-old simply becos they're all guys... their marital status, sexual appetites etc etc are also called into study...
 
"What I mean is by engaging in the acts, albeit virtual (for example, having online sex), it's akin to being unfaithful to your spouse, isn't it?"

hving virtual sex is not a bad thing for those looking for ways to cope with their sexual urges. like that u can stay chaste without wearing a chastity belt
 
I'm sick and tired of useless guys using excuse of raging hormones, sexual urges and sexual beings just because they have a hanging genital organ to justify that they can do anyhow and anything they want. The way they describe it, you'll think they're like Gods just because they happen to belong to the male gender.

Of course you can throw vows to the wind. Which worthy woman will value a guy who's words can't be trusted anyway. By the way, I too am a firm believer in marriage, both parties working the relationship together and daily activities building trust through daily family events.

By all means satisfy your ever-raging sexual appetite by paying for or visit porn web sites.

But please don't use the same excuses to claim your right to go into online chats with girls and maintain an intimate relationship (virtual) with 1 or a few girls which overtakes the intimacy you should be having with your own mate.
 
Strong words here... Watch these accusations.
Sexuality is a very personal thing. Being married doesn't mean losing control over ones sexuality. If u r horny, be it guy or gal, u can either get your mate to accompany u if they are in the mood. Else, u just cope with it yourself in ways u have always been doing. Nothing changed abt that.

Same morals applies before and after marriage. The key difference is learning to respect and live with our mate which is the point I have u saying. One should be dealing with their difference and instead of judging their partners with their personal morals.

Vows and promises are comfort zone visionalized by those that hold so strongly to it. I completely believe in the values preached in the vow itself. But the value and power is never in the vow itself but the conviction of people themselves. This is the point I am tryig to bring across. Look at your partner and the relationship. That is real. Not some vows or promises. It itself has absolute no value.
 
If your idea of respect isn't abt recognizing the difference and working on them, instead, trying to justify how right u r, then good luck to u. People and relationships are completely dynamic. No 2 persons are ever exactly the same. Recognize that.

Think abt it, if a person's words can be trusted. How does a vow make it any more trust worthy? Likewise in the opposite as u spoke abt. Dun u see the emphasis on the need for vows misplaced? Focus on pple not static vows and promises and try to make sense on why it doesn't stand. If u r truly focusing on the marriage and relationship... Tell me, how much of it s credit simply to that vow exchanged that fateful day? Is that making sense?
 
powerfish, think u should get off ur high horse and start looking at things realistically.

being a firm believer in marriage and hving sexual urges r two seperate issues. one can be a gd responsible spouse and at the same time still looking for ways to satisfy his/her urges... and if he/she is not gonna cross the line then ppl like u shouldn't be complaining.
 
Sure... ask me to get off my high horse for being unrealistic.

To men, as long as they remain faithful in body, it's ok. Who cares about the soul anymore. No one can control a man's soul. And of course, no one can control anyone else's mind. This is the reality.

Lame it may be, it works both ways. There are so many horny women online; married, single, divorced etc. All chatting, seducing, playing cybersex. If one of them is your wife, sharing intimate details and conducting cybersex online with men but at the same time wife-eyed swearing to you it's nothing, merely virtual and just an outlet to vent her sexual urges. Tell me how it feels being on the receiving end.

Mind you, she's just as faithful and honours you so much. She's a dutiful wife, mother to kids and daughter in law.
 
Power Fish, well said...
happy.gif


But I think it all boils down to what the couple expects in a relationship, and the expectations of a marriage for both.

Some couples are very open and don't mind the other virtual stuff they do, so long they don't physically commit the act. But some people, like me, cannot accept if my spouse going beyond watching porn and engage in virtual sex acts with online girls. To me, I also feel it's not just about the physical, it has to do with the heart. But then, that's just me and perhaps many others don't see it that way. There's no right or wrong here, just simply what anyone wants out of a marriage and meeting and respecting each other.
 
Some points....
1) stop making this a gender battle. it isn't. Sexuality is something everyone has to deal with. Just more so for most men than women. Else... there will not be thread asking for advise over concerns of a short dick or lack of sex drive. So, stop making references to the male gender and their genitals. It doesn't at all bring across any justification on your stand.

2) Sexual incompatibility are real issues. There are those that are for pre-martial sex where they find close to perfect fit in sexual compatibility. But many others do not. And they marriages are NOT REALISTICALLY doomed to fail. They just need to recognize the differences and needs. These are real issues with realistic ways to manage them.

3) Next, I would like to pose a thought for all with STRONG disagreement specifically to online chat only but perfectly OK with porn. What exactly are you so strongly against?

4) To you, how different is watch porn stars perform in a DVD vs a life performance? Technology will evolve and bring forth new evolutions that will expose us to new exploitations. How dynamic or static is your views and stands? It will challenge the very views and boundaries you cling so strongly on.

5) "The way they describe it, you'll think they're like Gods just because they happen to belong to the male gender." There is a self imaginary self oppression here. Look at the individual for who there are. Not based on some rule book and morals.

"If one of them is your wife, sharing intimate details and conducting cybersex online with men but at the same time wife-eyed swearing to you it's nothing, merely virtual and just an outlet to vent her sexual urges"

I already did mention, I have no issues with my wife doing that. This you are not in my shoes arguement is so badly abused and the logic completely warp. If your concern is about addiction and how its affects the couple relationship and life, its a completely different issue. Addiction occurs in all aspects.

6) "To men, as long as they remain faithful in body, it's ok"
That's another gender bashing accusation that displayed zero understanding actually.

In the nutshell, you have difficulty to understand that sexuality and relationship are 2 separate entities. Being committed in a relationship is way beyond just faithfulness in body. Its the entire relationship itself. The bonding, communication, trust and intimacy etc.

But sexuality isn't equate to intimacy. One can get sexual gratification simply by masturbation, watching porn, online sex chats, simple wet dreams etc. There has absolute no link with relationship and love. Making love to a partner is far beyond sexuality. What it brings to the couple goes the emotional satisfaction. That is something specific and unique with the relationship. It cannot be replicated through all the same way as how we cope with our sexuality. This is the reason why we don't need a sex guru in our partners for a fulfilling marriage. It doesn't mean we would forever be denied the ability to fantasize and fulfill our urges.

Nevertheless, I do admit there are plenty of shallow people around. Those that fail to see beyond the sex in a relationship. If your partner one such guy, then acknowledge that. Don't blame the gender nor our hormones.
 
oh powerfish, u're a loud & ignorant gender bigot.

tell me, how much is a pseudo-moral crusader's soul worth?

and stop assuming. assumptions r very dangerous things
happy.gif
 
Big words about the soul but in reality reflects how opinionated and shallow one's view really is.

"If one of them is your wife, sharing intimate details and conducting cybersex online with men but at the same time wife-eyed swearing to you it's nothing, merely virtual and just an outlet to vent her sexual urges"

You forgot that it is not my marriage that is on the rocks, i have a fulfilling marriage. Both wife and myself have absolutely no issues with on-line chatting. So, its really laughable to assume that somehow I cannot handle having a mate that needs to handle her sexuality too
happy.gif
 
hi Ariel,

u wrote : "But some people, like me, cannot accept if my spouse going beyond watching porn and engage in virtual sex acts with online girls. To me, I also feel it's not just about the physical, it has to do with the heart"

Think most people are concerned with not just physical alone and also the heart. i.e. getting emotionally involved be it online or not. Don't be under the impression that most folks are too open or don't bother about the emotions.

There seems to be an assumption and condemnation that online chats equates to getting emotionally involved. Why is there such assumption? One can get emotionally involved be it an interactive chat or just porn. Likewise, one can be in the chats solely for nothing emotional at all.

Where are you drawing the line? On the emotional attachment and involvement OR the virtual acts? As I had mentioned in previous reply to powerfish, technology will continue to evolve and challenge these very boundaries. One should really question the basis of the boundaries. Are the strong disagreements misplaced on acts that are beyond one's comfort level and judgement placed upon the partner based on their own fear and mistrust? Basic mutual trust and respect is somehow lacking?
 
well Power Fish,

as u said it yourself... it's "useless guys" u're referring to... so my question is why date or marry such pple in the first place? and if u didn't, good for u... u picked right.

for every problem, it's good to go back to the source and ask yourself IF u've married right. if u didn't, it's hard to seek all the right's within that marriage with that person... - u're Only Lying to Yourself.

Learn to differentiate... some ladies here are having problems with THEIR Individual Choice in their spouse and start threads lamenting "why men..." some ladies marry despite all the signs that the guy is WRONG and they come here to make statements "all men..."

if u can't even differentiate, and u think that it is a gender thing - then u obviously NEED to believe in that, in order to subconsciously Deal with your poor choice. and in order to NOT blame yourself - u are making it a gender weakness..

IN other words, when girls make such comments/laments - it is their way of Not blaming themselves for a poor match which was Their Choice, it is their way of Not letting go of a bad husband, it is their way of trying to Lie to Themselves that all men are such...

it is purely an act of Cowardice in facing life and one's own demons.

the desperation sets in when u see the girls picking on the little stuff and then insist that it's men.

HARLOW!!! if u picked me, i dun surf porn, nor have i EVER chatted on irc, nor do i have a Facebook account, nor do i visit prostitutes even as a bachelor with all the freedom to do so. But will u ever have a chance to meet a guy like me? - depends on u and Your personality and Your choices in life rite?

and there's many others like me around... nothing special, just that perhaps the pre-occupation in life is more On Career, Money, Enjoying the Finer things in Life.

IF u dun even bother looking for guys like me... what gives u the right to marry some scumbag of a husband, and decide that all guys are like that???

are u even up to my mental level? or are u spending your time serenaded in korean serials and unrealistic minglings?

if your idea of marriage is purely on being faithful... and Not abt Growth in Life, Journeys, nor Personal Spiritual growth and actualization... then u have no inkling abt marriage other than TP's version of not crossing the road when the red man is showing.
 
Powder,

You forgot to mention that if Power Fish was married to a guy like you, she would be here starting another post about "Why all men...", complaining about how her husband only spend 20% of his time with her.. and would rather spend all his time surfing internet and talking to GASP! women (on sgbrides forum), and only sleep like 4 hours a night.

With her moral stick shoved so far up her ass, she can't see beyond her closed mind. Thankfully, men are not as prone to making moronic sweeping statements like "Why all women..." or "All women are...". I would hate to be lumped together with judgemental bigots like her.
 
"Where are you drawing the line? On the emotional attachment and involvement OR the virtual acts?"

Milo, I think we think differently because I link the emotional attachment / involvement with the virtual acts. Okay this is something I really struggle with because my BF had a hard time explaining to me that virtual stuff holds no meaning for him.
happy.gif


Maybe emotional attachment is too strong a word. I would tend to think that something is missing in the marriage if one party constantly engages on say, cybersex with online strangers. Yes I agree with your point about some people having sexual incompatibility, hence may have to look for other ways to manage the urges. But I feel this is an issue that the couple needs to work on, like how should they fulfill each other's urges, instead of one party deciding to look for external sources for "help". Erm, do I make sense?

For me, to actually have sex (albeit virtual) with someone else other than your spouse, is just unacceptable. And like I said, this is a subjective issue to every couple. Some couples can live with it, some just can't.

"One can get emotionally involved be it an interactive chat or just porn. Likewise, one can be in the chats solely for nothing emotional at all. "

Watching porn and interactive chats is different in my opinion. Watching porn, the person watches and perhaps get aroused, then that's it. There's no interaction between the porn actress and the person watching.

But engaging in interactive chats (I'm talking about the sexual kind of chats or having cybersex), he or she carries on the conversation LIVE with another person who is not his or her spouse.

I mean, it's great that you and your spouse has a compromise in this and it works for you. But there are many people who cannot reach this compromise because their idea of what is considered faithfulness is different.

"Are the strong disagreements misplaced on acts that are beyond one's comfort level and judgment placed upon the partner based on their own fear and mistrust? Basic mutual trust and respect is somehow lacking?"

Mutual trust and respect works both ways right? So if say, your spouse really hates you doing the online sex stuff and she expresses it... then out of respect and love for her, you would cut down or stop, right? It's not just about Ameline wanting her HB to stop all these, the HB also must understand where she's coming from and be sensitive to her feelings. Because that's love, isn't it? You make sacrifices for the person you love.

Milo, if the couple has talked about what is their comfort level with regards to handling online activities, I think there will be no issue. The problem comes when they don't address this and assume each other's actions and thoughts (i.e. "you damn unfaithful man... why did you watch porn without my knowledge...")
 
yup exactly... different types of guys with different priorities rite?

u want a romantic guy who will do all sorts of sh!t for u during courtship and pluck the moon for u... this guy will do the same for other girls IF he meets them. u go for a very charismatic guy - his charisma shines out to others too rite? u wanna tame a guy who is a playboy - expect that he'll have ex-gfrens willing to sleep with him from time to time... u wanna go for a safe guy who is 9-5 at work - expect to not have Tiffany diamonds for gifts and expect to have more monotonous life...

u want a guy like me, u have to deal with the fact that i put alot of time at work and with frens. forums is not really alot of time cos i surf in-between at work.

i dun understand why sporeans are always 'acting blur'... make choices, but when the choice is bad - act blur and act like it's everyone else' fault. it's like those idiots on the road who Purposely take an empty lane that ends in road works, whizzes past 13cars waiting in queue, then pretend pretend put left signal hoping someone will be kind enough to let them filter... THIS IS TYPICAL SPOREAN. acting blur, taking advantage of pple's ignorance, and trying to exonerate oneself from blame.

these same kind of pple will come into forums and think they can bluff others to agree with them simply by making lame statements... some even start new accounts to agree with themselves.

for pple of such Poor character... should i actually agree and show any pity?
 
hi Ariel, thanks for your clarifications and answers.

I fully agree with :-
- mutual trust and respect works both ways.
It is precisely the point I have been trying to drive across. The entire point is NEVER about justifying the action nor the frequency of online sex chat or porn. Its is always about working things out together for a common neutral ground or split. There is nothing accusing and judgemental there.

- your concern if one party is constantly engaging in it. In this scenario, there is an indication of addiction and neglect of the partner feelings and channeling time virtually taking preferences over his real life and marriage.

If you take a step backwards and ponder over it, u realize its actually NOT about faithfulness. That accusation of infidelity on the partner shouldn't be there at all unless he is really getting emotionally involved online.

The thing about addiction is, its something the individual MUST handle. And its an issue everyone has to deal with, no just specifically to on-line sex only. As partners, we are not watchdogs, always monitoring and cannot wait to jump onto our partners with accusations and condemnation. Cut each other some slack. All of us have our own addiction, its okie to remind and raise alarm bells and oppose when things get out of hand. But not be watchdogs over our spouses. And when doing so, keep the condemnation and accusation out. No one will be convince to believe and think like another by attacking and condemning them.

"Watching porn and interactive chats is different in my opinion. Watching porn, the person watches and perhaps get aroused, then that's it. There's no interaction between the porn actress and the person watching."

I don't quite agree because its not as clear cut. What's important is how the person is handling the tool rather than the tool itself. Porn and online interactive chats are merely tools. A person can be obsessed with the tools and individuals involved regardless if the interaction is one or two way. For sure, with the live chat, its potentially more risky. i.e. things might get out of hand. This is part of the individual responsibility that the person must exercise. Face it, we don't life perfect goody shoes lives. So, its unreal to demand that in the very 1st place from our spouses.

Lastly, on powerfish, I am puzzled how well said her message could be. It was full of personal resentments over her own marriage that is vent on the male gender with sweeping statements slashed across all over. None of our personal use-case should be used as a generic yardstick. This brings back to the common point we (u and me) have being saying all the long. Mutual trust and respect in the relationship.
happy.gif
 
Okay this is something I really struggle with because my BF had a hard time explaining to me that virtual stuff holds no meaning for him.

Ariel,

Naturally, there is something very wrong if one party (and note I didn't say which gender, because my "self-love" time is important to me and I don't have a dick) PREFERS cybersexing with a stranger to being intimate with their partner. Cybersex or sex chats with strangers do not and should not replace actual intimacy.

This is different to using these sex chats for self enjoyment or as a supplement to spice up things. When I'm not in the mood or PMSing, or feeling damn shitty that particular day, there's nothing wrong with my guy going online and finding another way to pleasure himself. And this works vice-versa too, it helps me get revved up for some amazing times with the fiance.

I personally enjoy my me-time online, but I would never choose HotPecs369 over my partner.

I must say, Ariel, that I'm glad we can disagree with the issue at hand without being closed-minded, judgemental, confrontational, defensive or just plain bitchy. If only more people were like you.
 
milo,

actually i dun get this virtual sex thing either... to me it's abit warped... i'm not in-line with husbands engaging in sexual grooming and chatting up girls with predatory intentions.

my gripe is just on the girls who pick such guys and lament left right centre...
 
hi bro,

that's different thing altogether. Preying online is not the same as visiting online sex chats. A guy that preys online is beyond issues with his partner. It touches the same moral issues behind ONS only that its virtual.
 
the online sex chats i dun really get it either... do u guys mean cybersex with a stranger? hmm... it doesn't sit well with my values either... feels wrong. i repeat - feels wrong... am not saying it's wrong, cos i've come tro realise that the new generation of young adults are brought up on the internet age... so some new 'norms' are established... i will not judge on it.
 
i understand where u coming from. Likewise, it doesn't sit well with me chatting up strangers. I'm only into live chats for the same visual reason as porn. I don't get the same needs fulfilled chatting up strangers to dirty talk. That's very boliao to me. But, u r right. We can't judge the new gen based on our own context.
 
Hi Milo,

"Lastly, on powerfish, I am puzzled how well said her message could be. It was full of personal resentments over her own marriage that is vent on the male gender with sweeping statements slashed across all over. None of our personal use-case should be used as a generic yardstick. "

Regarding the "well said" part that I agree with Powerfish is about the body and soul thing. Because I also feel there's some connection in that, which I explained in my earlier post about linking the emotional attachment / involvement with the virtual acts. But I do agree that it shouldnt be a male bashing thing because everyone thinks differently.

" The entire point is NEVER about justifying the action nor the frequency of online sex chat or porn. Its is always about working things out together for a common neutral ground or split."

This i totally agree. But I don't know if Ameline or Powerfish have discussed these grounds with their HBs before marriage (and didn't resolve the issues) or is it that their spouses change (to like online sex activities) after marriage. Because the latter can cause a very shocking effect on the spouse... hence their angry posts? :|

"For sure, with the live chat, its potentially more risky. i.e. things might get out of hand. This is part of the individual responsibility that the person must exercise."

This is exactly why i cannot accept if my BF or spouse engages in that... because things might get out of hand. Does it mean I don't trust him? Hmmm, I just don't see it as a matter of trust. I see it more as a precaution we give ourselves. Even the most well-meaning and wonderful person can make mistakes, can fall under temptations. So why surround oneself with more potential pitholes to fall in? The world is already full of it.

"If you take a step backwards and ponder over it, u realize its actually NOT about faithfulness. That accusation of infidelity on the partner shouldn't be there at all unless he is really getting emotionally involved online. "

How do you define getting emotionally invovled online? meaning the person keeps a regular contact with the online person?
 


hi ariel, emotionally involved to me is developing romantic feelings for the other party.

I would be unhappy with my partner if she does deliberate actions to develop and pursue romantic feelings for someone else regardless its physical and/or online or not. I would think most would be unhappy with that no?

I understand the shock and anger person would feel if their spouse has been lying, cheating and using their urges as excuse to justify their actions. This is completely normal and understandable. But, it doesn't make the misplaced anger on all men any more valid at all. Face it, we are all sexual creatures and everyone has their unqiue ways to cope with the urges. This is the truth... it isn't going to change, quoting any marriage vows etc will not change that. Just learn to choose someone compromising or compatible. Life isn't perfect. If you made a bad choice, u have to live with the consequences. No way to bring the clock back. You can only make the best out of the situation... be it to adapt or divorce or any other options.
 
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Peach Garden OCBC
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