Innocent flirting?

i have followed this post and i feel that every relationship, all men will stray regardless at one point. Be it thinking of something more than friendship, innocent flirting, or the outright majorly showing it into your face sort. How many times do we actually find out about it. I am getting married soon and perhaps influence from my own family that my dad had a woman outside and my mum wallowed it up cos of us. i used to tell myself when i grow up and the same* happens to me, i will walk out. But now that i am gonna marry soon, when i pose myself the same qn, i know i wont walk away, for the simplest fact i am still a woman, and this is my home.
So i understand why stardust alternates between being strong and falling back to be the caring wife in her 13yr of relationship. its this bond, u know he is caring for someone else yet you cannot pull yourself away from it being the same woman you were to him after all these years. Sure you say, you bring it upon yourself ,u were the one giving urself the trouble but, how many of us can truly walk away and really be quits in this relationship. You look at your children, they remind you of him, you shared a decade of life with him, everywhere in Sg has ur memories. So, i think stardust i guess i do feel what u feel. But like many others say, it isnt healthy to remain in this cycle. You need to find a strong support and help yourself to break away from this, only then can u be in full control of your emotions and feelings.I wish you all the best
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i've finally took the initiative to see a dr, and i've been diagnosed as having clinical depression. since its been dragging along for 6 months, dr has referred me to a psychiatrist. dr seemed rather anxious to have me see a psychiatrist asap, and when NUH's soonest appt was 3 weeks away, she urged me to see a private clinic which would be able to accommodate me asap.

i hope this first step will finally unlock all my problems and make them go away... i'm tired of life like this. its simply not worth living. i need to get back to who i was before.
 
stardust...

follow thru with it and give yourself a chance, and your life a chance... believe in yourself and believe in your future... i am hapi for u in many ways, and i think Action is impt... it's the first step, i'm glad u took it.
 
powder,
thank you so much. i told my hubby about it, and he's glad that i will be on the road to recovery. i don't know if i will be able to trust so fully as before. i feel really contradictory though.. i trust that he will not cheat, but i cant be certain he will not lie. do i make sense? but i also have visions of him with her, and i keep thinking about what they talk about. i feel disappointed when he says he will be back late coz he;s out drinking and entertaining, but yet at times i welcome the solitude. he says he wishes entertaining isn't necessary, but yet i keep feeling that he enjoys going out. sigh.. i'm full of conflicting feelings
 
just a little update,
i've had my first appt with my psychiatrist who's suggested medication to get me out of this cycle. however i will have to give up breastfeeding as the medication will cross over and affect bb. i'm not willing to give up breastfeeding, so have opted to start on counselling and cognitivy therapy instead. was also advised to start a diary to take note of how my moods are so that he may be able to see a pattern and the triggers.

dr said its highly likely the bio-chemical changes in my brain that caused this depression since i'm not a suspicious person by nature - i told my dr so(i specifically asked my hubby after my appt if he thought i was, and he admitted that i wasnt too.), and i'm an optimistic person by nature. this can be treated by medication but since i'm rather insistent in continuing breastfeeding, gotta try another approach which may take a longer time to take effect.

hubby asked if he could go on another trip with his colleagues at the end of the month. i felt really disappointed that when i asked him if he could go on a trip with me, he wasnt keen because he said we'd be spending our own money which he can barely afford to, whereas the trip with his colleagues would be paid for by them be cause he'd helped them in reaching their targets, and he'd like to go since they are the ones who give him biz and he needs to network.

i told my dr and my dr was very matter of fact - if you dont want him to go, just tell him so and let him decide. if you need him to stay then dont need to feel guilty about it, otherwise it'll be a chicken and egg thing. if he still chooses to go then that should tell you something.

i dont know his decision after i told him i hope he can stay. dont want to breach this subject otherwise i know for sure i'll start crying again. but just cant help feeling abandoned.
 
are these trips with his colleagues really necessary for him to do well in his job? i guess now that u have expressed ur thoughts to him, the ball is in his court.

no matter what ur hubby's decision is, u must have the determination to focus on getting well. pls remember not to force him to stay with u if in the end he says he still wants to go...

i can understand why u would use abandoned to describe ur feelings... but i think the word also shows tt u r looking at things in a dramatic manner. try to look at things like ur dr... be matter of fact.

i think now for ur emotions to stabilise, u must try to simplify rather dramatize ur feelings. if ur hubby chooses to go away wif his colleagues, surround urself with more friends, use the opportunity to spend time with ur baby...

u shld always stand on ur own feet, esp since ur relationship wif him is only jus beginning to improve. u alrdy know tt he has been out of sorts lately, so imho, for now, try to expect nothing from him, then u won't be disappointed.
 
stardust,


good to know you're slowly trying to navigate away from depression. i'm only wondering, in the worst case scenario... if ur husband decides to end the marriage and leave u one day... what would u do?
 
hi joiedevire,
i cant find another word other than abandoned to describe how i feel.. although yes, in my logical mind, i can understand why he would want to spend more time with these colleagues. there are others of his same position that these colleagues could give their biz to, so there is actually competition for him to ensure that his relations with these ppl are good enough so that they'd give biz to him instead of others. plus i think he wants to go anyway. i guess he finds it more fun going with them then just me. perhaps i was far too independent before and therefore when i really need him, he still thinks i'm capable of taking care of myself.

ironically, i always repeat this mantra to ppl i know - 'dont expect so you will not be disappointed.' however, lately, disappointment has become a very familiar feeling to me.

hi confused,
if matters really end up that badly, i think i would feel better having that absolute rather than doubts and uncertainty. but in all honesty, i trust that he will not leave me for another woman.

but i would say now that all the grand notions and illusions i had abt love and all that is a matter of the past. dont get me wrong, i'm not saying i dont love him, i do, very very much, but its a more practical love now. happily ever afters are no longer real to me. i feel a very urgent need to learn to protect myself and to build up my defenses instead of throwing my whole heart to him - to anyone, for that matter -and believe it will never be broken.
 
when ur heart hurts, make decisions wif ur head... it may sound way too logical n cold, but in the end, u will emerge fr the experience better for it.

if u feel so disappointed wif love tt u have to build up defenses, even wif ur own husband... then mayb he is nt the right guy for u after all...

like ur dr says, let him have a part in the decision making, n his decisions will tell u whether he is still committed to ur marriage.
 
hi starlight,


i think all relationships are finite... and the one with a lifespan that exceeds all others is the one with ourselves. happily ever afters and forevers cannot be applied in real life, at best they are means to conclude a Hollywood movie or any other fictitious tale.

when my father passed away quite suddenly many years ago, albeit sadness and grief my mother didn’t collapse. months later she said she hadn’t thought about what comes after Yi Sheng Yi Shi. but now that it’s here, it is here. i wondered why she didn’t suffer a complete mental and emotional breakdown given the closeness they had, it’s only recently that she told me she never stopped living her own life and moving forward even after marriage.

if the concept of being an individual first before one purports to love another is true, i believe it explains many things that happened.

“if matters really end up that badly, i think i would feel better having that absolute rather than doubts and uncertainty.â€

what is this 'absolute' you mentioned?
 
Confused, when I read your last entry I almost couldn't believe that it came from another person. Why, I have the exact thoughts about relationship ever since my dad passed away almost two years ago. From there I came to realise that all relationships are finite. A marriage would end eventually either in divorce or death of one party. I learned that I need not take my divorce too hard.
 
It seems that many women are worried about their husband or partner straying. Am I the exception? I am not worried about infidelity, but not because I have ruled out that possibility altogether. As a matter of fact, I would be more concerned that one day we could no longer be true to ourselves and to the person we are married or attached to. If that day does come, I would be more inclined to let go of the relationship.

I can lose anything but I would be most reluctant to lose myself, not for anyone or anything.
 
hi doLL,


when I was worried, they didn’t stray. when I didn’t worry, he strayed.

being caught in that situation, all the feelings of shock, hurt, disappointment and abandonment were crippling. even now, I can’t say for sure what that experience meant or taught... maybe cos I'm still confused about why the past unfolded in such fashion. only thing certain today is... I’m still a bit embarrassed about all the emo drama back then. lucky my friends and family never brought it up again. now I stick to the idea that there is always the possibility anyone will cheat, no matter how much perceived integrity there is and no matter how high or low the probabilities are supposed to be.

if it happens, it happens. when it happens, it will hurt.

any decision made afterwards... to forgive and reconcile or to sayonara and go best be made in self honesty. as for the clarity needed if such an event befalls again... don’t think I’m quite there yet in maturity or ever will be cos practicing what is preached is very very tough.

in the words of a friend, the human mind... so cunningly evasive, elusive and sometimes so very jia lat. just set out to be kind, be a friend and be fulfilled to ourselves.

lacking that within, a recipe for misery is in the making.
 
Hi Confused, I am sorry to hear what you have gone through. Has it happened recently?

I do not rule out the possibility of infidelity in any relationship, not even for myself! There is no need to, and it's not like it won't happen when it is ruled out, right?

Like I have said earlier, my partner being truthful to himself and me is something that I value more than faithfulness.
 
there is so much more to life than just marriage isn't it? i guess its a matter of our own perspectives and how we view life.

sometimes our minds can tell us all the right things, but when the heart is not well, nothing can work.

there are so many stories of unhappiness here. i for one had my world shaken, but when my mind takes control, i ask myself what exactly am i so obsessed about? when my heart takes over, its an entirely different story. just last night i woke up and started crying to myself feeling that its the end of everything. but this morning i felt entirely different.

i'm more convinced than ever that my logic isnt working ,and that my first step to seeing a dr is the first step to recovery.

those of us who are encountering difficulties and are unable to resolve, i really do advise seeking help. it'll really make a difference. not to the situation, but to ourselves. in any case, i only had gone for my first appt where its mainly understanding my background. hopefully the 2nd appt will have some progress.

my dr has indicated that if i feel necessary, i should have my hubby along with me at the next appt. any thoughts? should i ask him along? or should i establish a firmer ground with my dr first?
 
one thing these events have taught me well is to never be dependent on anyone other than myself. i need to be self-sufficient and have the ability to take good care of my sons and myself.
 
Stardust, though I do not know you in person I could tell you have been a pretty independent and self-sufficient person. If you seek to be even more independent and self-sufficient, you might as well leave your husband, right? A marriage is after all a partnership and there must be inter-dependency and synergetic efforts.
 
stardust,

that's a point that has been lost for awhile with most pple... that point abt being self-dependent...

after reading what u wrote, i reflected for abit and realised For Myself - how i have been able to overcome obstacles in almost all aspects of life without going thru long bouts of depression... it made for good self-reflection at least, and now i see the link as to why i have been in this thread... simply to know how things have been for me, and in this thread despite various attempts to wake u up... i see u as my teacher.

i have never really depended on anyone becos my dad died on me, the finances failed me, poverty embraced me, relationships eluded me cos i was too busy meeting ends-meet in my teenage years, education failed me due to my lack of academic inclinations, frens betrayed me and left mebankrupted, and thru'out this phase... the only person i was truly ever dependent on is my mum.

so yup, it's easy for me to say "step-out", "get-out", "leave", "forget it"... seriously, i dun know if it's becos i'm too strong, or pple are generally getting weaker...

But the point u made is omni-important - to never be dependent on anyone for our happiness n well-being. we Can give, but let's not hope to receive... and know when to call it quits.

i can say that becos so many things eluded me and i found ways around them... problems elude me now too. it's not that i dun have problems, but seriously, what problems can be so restrictive and dampening, except perhaps one that deals a blow to our health? as long as we can walk, talk, and have ample use of our body and mind - overcoming is just a path we Must Choose. or do we choose to see our lives wasted into nothingness as we live in nothingness and die in nothingness?

pple give up too easily nowadays... pple complain much more easily nowadays... we're bred to put in minimal effort to get maximum results... this can happen with education n eq, but when it's just down to us versus ourselves - there's no shortcuts.

when u are in poverty, unsure of your next meal, paid only $1.85/hr... u would Wish that u had relationship problems Instead... at least i would. having relationship issues means i am not having hunger/survival/eviction/shelter issues...

i see pple complain abt their jobs as if they were Drafted into the company like how we're drafted into army. i see pple demand changes to their bosses' attitudes like they were in charge... pple no longer appreciate the simple things, nor appreciate life... everyone is lost in their own selfish pursuits for money, happiness, life - at the expense of their own personalities...

if u feel u deserve better, then fight for the 'better'. if the fight is loss n your opponent doesn't wanna play fair - move on to another opponent or fight in another ring... the choice will always be ours to live where we live, stay where we stay...

u know 40yrs ago, my mum left a man she loved with nothing but my brother... for a orphaned woman with primary 2 education, no skill, no money, no family, in the late 60s when single mothers are deems in a very negative light... she certainly had alot more courage than most pple these days...

take good care and stay strong...
 
hi doll,
i do agree that a marriage is a partnership, but i feel too vulnerable now.perhaps i've fallen off the bike one time too many, and now i'm afraid to have to training wheels taken away. but yet i know that if the training wheels arent taken away, i will never ever learn how to ride a bike. perhaps that's what my hubby has so wisely done these past months. he's thrown the ball back into my court, and by keeping all his things private, he's challenging the independent me - to trust him or not.

powder,
there are lessons to be learnt from anywhere and anynoe isn't it? the only pitfall is that some lessons may be learnt too well, and it makes a person very wary of many things around him/her.

poverty is indeed fearsome, unfortunately, like the bike riding analogy, we will never learn unless we go through it ourselves. i agree so well with your words.. we do have a choice, but we may choose to make different choices in different stages of our lives simply because our past experiences have made an influence on how we eventually make that choice. if i were thrown this situation 5 years ago, i might have reacted in a different way. if i were to have to face this situation 10 yrs later, again i will react in another way.

lots of ppl in our older generation are so much stronger, simply because they've led a harder life, and whatever knocks life throws at them, they gamely catch it or throw it back. ppl are indeed getting weaker these days because alot of things are a given to them. like i mentioned before, my life has been sweet sailing so far, and this is the first hint of a 'crisis' that i've ever been into. to be fair to myself, i think i've coped pretty okay and fairly well for someone who hasnt had a hard life at all. i recognise that and i want to give myself a pat on the back for it. at least most of my thoughts were coherent enough to make logical sense, even though my heart was pulling me in another direction.

you know, that day hubby and i were hiding in stairway, peeping at our elder son who had just started preschool. we were worried that he wouldnt be able to cope because he kept crying and crying when we left him. as we saw him walk by,still crying, without knowing we were there, hubby said something that tugged at my heartstrings 'he thinks we've left him but in fact we are with him, watching over him'. i wondered if there was a hidden message to me (i highly doubt so because i dont think his mind works in levels like i do) in my darkest hrs these past months, he wasnt always there for me, but he would always appear eventually and make things all better. while allowing me to fall off the bike, was he actually helping me to learn how to ride again?

i see things so differently now, and i'm sad for myself. just the other day, as i was driving, strong winds were blowing the leaves off the trees along the road. the old me would just admire the wonderful sight, and be thankful and amazed how beautiful and wonderful nature is. but after that fleeting thought, i was filled with a great sadness that this beautiful sight will eventually end, and all the leaves would end up as litter on the ground. their beauty is so short lived, and i've lost the ability to simply see the good and leave it at that. there is now a darker side to life's meaning for me. i hope it'll eventually inspire me to be stronger, instead of falling victim to it.

hm..today's post seem to be rather low.. but i'm really in a pensive mood right now.
 
when u let a white mouse drown n u pull it up to breathe, n u repeat this action - giving it breath everytime it reaches asphixiation - are u helping the mice train or simply keeping the mouse alive at your whim n fancy? all may be in the spirit of training, but there will come a time when nobody believes it's helping the mouse anymore...
 
Stardust, about the bike training analogy and all other thoughts you have shared, well, I can say you are a profound person but is your husband near as deep, to be doing what you think he is doing? You could be thinking too much on his part? I believe much of the weariness you have been experiencing has to do with thinking on his part as well as yours.
 
Hi doLL, that was back in 04 or 05. Agree with truthfulness being important when 2 people come together. Among qualities like respect & kindness.

"There is no need to, and it's not like it won't happen when it is ruled out, right? "

Damn right haha.
 
powder,
that's a very good analogy too.. it really depends on how positive or negative one is, isnt it? whether the person is acting in good faith or not.

hubby casually mentioned if we should see a marriage counsellor, but in the next breath, he said he actually doesnt see the need to because he doesnt feel that we have a problem apart from me 'thinking rubbish'.

doll,
yes you are very right. i have many grey areas and tend to have many levels of thoughts, but hubby doesnt. he's very straightforward. its either black or white with him.
 
the analogy is actually for us to see beyond the positive/negatvies and just to focus on The Truth/Facts...

there's only so many times my father can abuse me until i decide it's not disipline but child-abuse. most times, child-abuse cases have the child struggling to come to terms on whether it's right or wrong, not whether to look at the bright side or not.
 
for many of the ignorant and old school thought, beating their children is discipline to them. pls dont get me wrong, i am totally against physical punishment esp to a child. the furthest i go is slapping my child's hands when misbehaves repeatedly. i dont even own a cane and i dont think i will ever want to use it in my disciplinary efforts.

but i do think the intention behind the 'discipline' is very impt too. i would think better of a father who purely wants the best for his child, but ignorant that his efforts are abusive, as compared to a father who abuses his child for the sake of showing his superiority and authority.

of course both are wrong when they go overboard, and the end result is the same - an abused child, both physically and psychologically scarred. but even if indicted in a court, wouldnt the judge consider intention before sentencing?
 
You need to see things as what they are FIRST, before you decide to think postive or negative.

Your husband may not be "bike-training" you at all; you like to think that he is. It does make you feel better but for a couple of hours when the thoughts are of the moment?

This cannot be considered the same as positive thinking. Instead, you are over-thinking to be thinking on his part.
 
stardust,

i would think despite compassion, truth n fact would be the main factors...

of cos, my dad never laid a hand on my thru'out his life. my whole point is on the facts of abuse, fathers can be wrong too... some traditional fathers may think it's right, but there comes a point of beating where it turns wrong... it's a fine line.

with that, i'm likening your hubby to the father, and u to the confused child... u Have To explore it. when all else fails, u've got to look at the truth, the facts... then decide if positive/negative thinking is the way to go...

for me i'll take the lessons positively, but will not deny what actually happened.
 
hi doll,
i suppose to some extent i am.. but i really am tired of being disappointed again and again. right now i'm working on regaining my independency and my self-confidence and security.

powder,
its so easy to distinguish truth and fact from lies and fiction when the mind is well. but i feel like i can no longer distinguish between the two. i know medication will be the solution, like my dr suggested, but unfortunately, i've decided not to take the easier way out because i insist on continuing to breastfeed my children. i find that when i think about certain issues, i think about them as if they had indeed happened, when in actually fact they may not have had. everything seems so surreal.

yes, i'll never forget when transpired, and i hope these lessons will serve me well for life.
 
times like these - u need a best fren u can trust, or 2-3 close frens whom u have known to make good decisions in life... and seek their opinion to execute the decisions...

it worked well for me.
 
stardust,

I think you are too emotionally dependent on your husband. You depend on him to make the right decisions for you as a couple and as an individual.

It is perfectly fine if the husband is one who is of good character, and can be trusted and relied on to do the right things at most times. But if he isn't, then you are just gonna be jerked around by his irresponsible and unwise decisions.

For this you've gotta be brutally honest with yourself - whether he is someone who deserves your full emotional dependency?

Or maybe your ego is too big to let you see that you've actually made the wrong choice in a husband, that's why now you're desperately trying to rationalize away his hurtful actions, which in turn causes you to doubt yourself in the process.

Learn to depend on yourself for your own emotional needs, rather than relinquishing this right to someone who might not even be worthy of it in the first place.
 
powder,
maybe i'll do so when i find myself unable to cope with the overwhelming emotions.. since i've already taken the last step in seeing a specialist, i'm going to leave it in his hands. i just wish the voices in my head would stop their debate and give me some peace..

i'm still unsure if i want him to go with me on my next appt..

triquetra,
i dont think i've made the wrong choice in a husband.. for 12 years we;ve been so happy.. we seldom fight.all the crap began only 6 months ago.. i seriously wonder if its his lack of EQ or a lapse in judgement that resulted in him choosing to start the vicious cycles of lying and mistrust, playing it hard and fast with my trust in him.. his actions in dealing with the aftermath may be hurtful, but to be brutally honest, its very congruent with his usual behaviour for as long as i knew him.
 
Stardust, I must say I fully agree with Powder's last entry. Having emotional support from one's best friend and/or a few close friends will make a lot of difference when a crisi strikes.

I had been to a psychiatrist once for an assessment for a personal difficulty faced in the last three months of last year. My psychiatrist told me that I was in depression due to the nature of the incident and its unexpected occurence, though I was not clinically depressed (no medication prescribed and no follow-up visit needed).

Some of the things on his checklist of assessment include a good emotional support network. I am glad that I could unburden myself fully with my best friend and partially with a few close friends without fearing that I would be judged. Am especially grateful to my best friend, who responded to me whenever I pressed the panic button. Without her, someone who knew my character and personality, and whom I could trust for her intimate knowledge of me, I wouldn't know how I could pull through. This is something that my psychiatrist couldn't do for me despite his professional training.
 
hi doll,
ironically, i'm usually the one they come to when they face problems..and i've talked to my best friend, and then found out that she's actually going through something similar to me! now she's full of negativity and has given up on her hubby .. and everything that she says to me goes along that track. i really wish i could help her better, but now feeling exactly what she's feeling, i really have nothing positive to say to encourage her too.

Her mind is fixed on
"how would i know he wouldnt do it again?"
"I've imagined the worst, it doesnt matter to me if he actually did the worst or not, its the same to me"
"I dont want to think of him and put him first anymore, i want to think of myself and my own happiness."

She's completely lost hope because its not the first time that her husband 'played the field' for pure fun only(so he says). i know deep down she's saying all these out of extreme hurt..and i feel so hurt for her too..she's set on divorce but her hubby begged for a last chance, so she's giving it a year. on the surface she's putting up a front of not caring..but i know she must be feeling horrible inside..i know she can't bear to leave him, but yet staying is so much more painful when there are so many lies and disappointments.
 
yoz stardust

given your current state of mind, it reminded me of certain situations when one would get damned if don't, get damned if do.
logically, should choose to settle for the "lesser of 2 evils", shouldn't it?

after six months, it seems to me that you are still half-accepting the glaring facts, and also half-disbelieving because of the length of togetherness and memories.

i seriously don't think the visits to the shrink would chase the voices away so easily. however, the subsequent sessions would help you to open up the new perspectives if you, yourself and stardust lay down the emotional burden and acknowledge wholeheartedly to the professional that it is extremely likely that the hubby has got involved with someone else - and, you need a recovery sort of phrase because of this....
otherwise, it is just another channel to voice out the "intention behind his decisions", "assumptions of his body language" and "meanings in his words".

in a crude way (don't mind me), you are already damned in this situation. why not find the damn way out? by first breaking down your own barrier.
 
"i dont think i've made the wrong choice in a husband.. for 12 years we;ve been so happy....
his actions in dealing with the aftermath may be hurtful, but to be brutally honest, its very congruent with his usual behaviour for as long as i knew him."

I don't get your logic. You think his hurtful actions are congruent with his behavior all along, and yet you have been happy with this kind of behavior for the past 12 years?

Do you actually believe that a husband who continues hurting a wife should be something to be happy about?

Either that or you have a masochistic streak in you. You believe that you deserve to be treated this way, and you see this as being self-sacrificial and "noble".

Unfortunately, there is nothing noble about sacrificing your self-dignity by allowing others to hurt you. Repeatedly.

Until you learn to RESPECT yourself, you will continue to let others disrespect you.

Good luck.
 
hi vios!
to chase away the voices, i need answers to the questions that are swirling around in my head. i managed to get him in some sort of a quiet talk during dinner earlier on, and i've got some of the answers i sought but because this topic is still too raw for the both of us, i havent managed to get ALL the answers i need, but at least the process of unlocking the tie is underway.

yes, i really look forward to subsequent sessions with my dr, and i hope he'll be able to at least help me along this process. the sessions are very matter-of-fact, and the questions he asked me really made me open up my logic and think with my head, not my heart.

hi triquetra,
er.. i see the contradiction in the sentence. pls allow me to clarify. hubby has a 'take it or leave it' mentality. egoistic to a large extent. he's not the kind who would go all out to make me happy, do things that would cater to me, put me up on a pedestal..etc.. not that i want to be treated like a princess, but just illustrating the sort of guy he just is. so in the past if we do have little scuffles, he will not put in extra effort to ensure i'm no longer angry..etc.. so in this issue, he's behaving as per normal as in apart from the initial stage where he was taken aback by how badly i reacted to this and tried to spend more time with me, take me out, comfort me and assure me, he's not treating me with extra soft gloves. erm, am i making sense?
 
Stardust, during my crisis period my best friend was facing some sort of relationship issue herself. People tend to be myopic when it comes to their own problems but have 20/20 vision when they look at other people's problems. My best friend and I were able to give each other sound advice and emotional support in spite of our individual challenges on hand. I was glad for the much needed "distraction" from my own problem when I lent a listening ear.
 
stardust,

I don't have much to say other than we are what we want to be.

I think you think and over analyze too much.. whatever problem that you are having - it is mostly in your mind.

Only yourself can unlock it. Psychiatrist or counsellors - they can do so much. Medication can help in the initial stages but at the end of the day, it is really what you want to be.

We can't force someone, however much they love us or how much we love them - to think our way. Different people has different expectations. Even our soulmates that we have known for many years - no exception. People do change. Sometimes we think we know someone inside out - but it is a fallacy. How much do we even know ourselves? Let alone other people.

A lot of things regarding relationship cannot be analyzed logically. It has no meaning. There may not be any explanation. We just have to learn to accept.
 
hi doll,
yes i agree we are really able to see things objectively when we're not the ones involved..i dont think she's in the right frame of mind now to be objective.. she'll probably tell me to forget leave to because she now firmly believes that ALL MEN CANNOT BE TRUSTED. but when i'm lending my listening ear, it does distract me somewhat although i really feel for her.

sm,
you know, i actually do agree with you. i simply have too much time alone with my thoughts. hubby's not home most of the time. 6 out of 7 nights i'm alone with my kids. when the elder one sleeps, i'm left with the baby. and carrying a baby to sleep leaves me with a vacuum of unoccupied time. i've thus decided to realign my priorities and focus. will be attending courses and launch a new career soon, and although i feel really horrible and reluctant to do so, i feel its the only way i can help myself out. i hope in future my sons will understand why i had to make this decision now.
 
As much as other people can see things more objectively.. I have to agree but sometimes you can't take it away the fact that we need to experience it to feel it.

At times, people tell us.. that is a dead end but still we need to walk the path to know it ourselves. I don't think it is stubborn not to heed other's advices. Walking the path and choosing it and knowing the consequences ourselves is important for us.

And sometimes how would other people understand how we are feeling? Why we do the things that we do? We have to be honest with ourselves.. feel deeply and think deeply what we want.. and the outcome we want. And work towards that outcome.
 
stardust,

Yes.. attending courses.. pick up new hobbies and launching a new career is good. Making new friends is also a good.

Don't revolve your life round your hb.. make yourself less dependent on him.
 
hi sm,
yup..i need to regain my sense of worth.. especially since he's so busy, staying at home alone all the time, i feel so lonely and neglected. i really feel bad for leaving my young kids to work though..but i just have to keep as busy as possible so that i wont have time to think.

he's assured me that he hasnt lied to me since our last blow-up. he tells me that she still calls him but he really doesnt answer. when she smses him like 'what are you doing now?', he sometimes just simply replies 'working' and then when she asks him out for a drink, he doesnt reply anymore.

i asked him what they talked about for so long in that particular conversation that lasted 23 mins. he said she called because she was feeling down and wanted to ask him out to the pub she works at so she could talk to him. he told he he couldnt go and thus she just talked to him over the phone while he consoled her.

i can believe him this once more that he really doesnt respond to her anymore. but i just cannot forget everything that has transpired so far.. its stil so fresh. and to forget, i have to keep busy with new things until one day the horrid memories fade away..

my new job will have long working hrs til late at night. i wont even see them in the day, and i might not even be home in time to tuck them into bed. my children will lose their mother's time and care.. and i hate myself the most for it. everytime i see them i feel like crying and when they fall asleep, i whisper to them how much i love them, why i have to leave them, and i ask them to forgive me for doing this.
 
It is all in the mind.. how we want to control them.

Wish you good luck.

I have much much worse memories.. and if I hold on to them, I would probably be dead a 1000 times.

I prefer only to think of the good times.. and much more to appreciate the present - what I have now. The past is over. It is dead. Whatever bad memories they count for nothing unless we want them to affect us.
 
Quote: my new job will have long working hrs til late at night. i wont even see them in the day, and i might not even be home in time to tuck them into bed. my children will lose their mother's time and care.. and i hate myself the most for it. everytime i see them i feel like crying and when they fall asleep, i whisper to them how much i love them, why i have to leave them, and i ask them to forgive me for doing this.

I really feel for your young kids, for im going to be a mum myself... One thing I can tell you, my mum was never with me really throughout my childhood, it's work and more work. You guessed it, we weren't close, I only know her as mum but don't feel her as one. It took us so many years to found the lost bond, thank God that we are now best friends. We need to be on the phone every single day. One of my friend, he is never close to his mum from young till now. Throughout his overseas studies, he only emailed his mum once a month or something, that's about it. He told me he don't know what to talk to his mum for she's a high flyer whom he seldom see when he was young. All i can say is, kids are the ones who will suffer and lost time can never be bought.
 
<u>Stardust</u>
I can't help but to share my story here with you. You are suffering way too much..... And, I really wonder what's the level of trust you have for your hubby right now.

Sept'09 - I was an overweight lady. 12kg heavier than my current weight. Fat, ugly. Not a sight.
Sept'09 - I was a stressed out lady. I own my own business. And last year wasn't a pleasant year to start with. My business dropped so much that I'm suffering a great loss.
Sept'09 - I was an insensitive lady. So consumed in my own stress that I neglect the feel of my husband... that I constantly am having arguments wih him once every 2-3 days. I don't even take care of his most basic needs.
Sept'09 - <font color="ff0000">My hubby got to know her.</font>

<font color="0077aa">She was his potential client. A prospect that was handed to him by his customer service. They got to know each other. Sept'09</font>

Sept'09 - My husband began to have frequent OTs. He's doing sales in his company. And he's the only one handling the Media side in his company. Thus, any sales lead that contains Media, it will be directed to him. That is how they met. She had found his company through online search and called to enquire. Thus, their first meet-up is their first appointment. As mentioned above, me and him were going through very stress period. I was so stressed over my business, neglecting him... his feelings, and his needs. He is feeling the strain from my attitude. And find that I am very hard to communicate with. And when they met, both of them as smokers, found alot of common topic between them. They spoke during their appointment. They spoke while they went out for smoking break then went back inside for their appointment. They spoke on the phone. He finds her very comfortable to talk with. She enjoys talking to him. However, my hubby reveals to her. <font color="119911">'I am having problem with my wife and I really feel unhappy with her. We have got NO kids. <font color="ff0000">It's All A Lie!!!</font></font>

Oct'09 - His OTs increased from twice a week, up to everyday. And he has got 2 customers working at almost the same location as the other woman. They are working in Loyang. Thus, many times, at around 4pm, he'll call me and inform me that he is going to Loyang for appointment. But in fact, he went there, to fetch her off work. And they will go off to their rendevous. At that period of time, he'll come home at almost 1-2 am every single day. While, I stay at home with my 2 sons. Waiting and waiting, for daddy to come home. During that period of time, I found out that he called her almost every hour during the day. And there's an unsaved mobile number that he frequently calls during the day. I suspected something, and read through his sms. Found out that he reports to her his whereabouts. In detail. While, at that period of time, I tried calling him, all my calls went unanswered. I sms him. He'll not reply my sms. And his HP, which normally will be place between us on the bed, will be placed at his side of the bed. And placed to silent mode. I got super depressed. I don't know what is going on. And I trusted that he is only looking for someone to talk to. And nothing else is involved. Then, came the bomb.... he 'Informed' me that he is going to Bangkok with his guy friends for a holiday, end of October. Wanting to please him, I said ok. And he did reveal who is going with him. However, there is a catch. There is a mystery friend joining them. The mystery friend is a friend of his colleague. Knowing that colleague personally, I trusted them, and consented to the trip. However, nagging feeling inside me never ceased.....

Nov'09 - He'll only be home on 4th November 2009. However, something is tugging me very strongly in my heart. Remembering the number from his HP, I called that number. And found that the number is off. Then, I called her company, found out that she is on leave the same days as my husband. I am falling fast! The sinking feeling in my stomach is so damn great! Went to Airport on 4th November to fetch them.... and the min the airplane touch down, I called 'her' hp. It's on!!!!! I hid at one corner and watch the people stream out. And caught them red-handed. However, they seemed to walk a distance from each other. She then left airport first. My hubby came out later. And I appeared right in front of him, with tears flowing down. He gave me a 'who asked you to be here' look. And followed me to a corner and we speak. Everything he told me, I trusted him! He said, they were friends.... and she knows the place well. Thus, they went together. They stayed at same room. But different bed. I trusted them. He said she sometimes don't follow them out for walk walk. I trusted him. And, life seemed to go back to normal. He even hugged me tightly to sleep. I trusted that he missed me. However 4 days after he came back from Bkk, he fell asleep in the living room. After I made my kids sleep, I came out and asked him to bed. He groggily stood up and walked back to bed, and fell asleep immediately. I then, saw his HP on the floor, and picked it up. Saw that he has a message, thus, I opened up and have a look. What came to my sight, froze me totally. It said:

<font color="ff6000">Bb, I just reached home. Sorry for being so late. I was catching up with my friends. You must be in dreamland now. Good night.</font>

The quote of the nick she called out to my hubby, is what froze me. Then, I went back to ensure that my hubby is really asleep, I went back to the living room, and responded the sms. And found out, they had been dating for a month! Since Oct'09! And, they slept on the same bed!!!! When I tried to probe on whether they went to bed, she stopped responding.

Cause I felt that I love him, and she might be trying to cause a drift between us, I chose to turn blind to all those. And trusted to what my hubby said. They had nothing going on. And they never went to bed. But, he subjected me to worse things as weeks goes by. During the whole of November, he still exchanges plenty of calls and smses with her. He will work OT once a week. To go out with her. And, he'll stay outside the house till 12am every single day, to talk to her on the phone. All along claiming that she is a good person to speak to. But, mid-november, I cannot take it anymore. I trashed everything out. And he admitted that yes. She is his girlfriend and there's nothing I can do. I froze on the spot. All the nights of him cuddling me to sleep, having sex as usual..... what do they mean?!!! While he have another in his heart. And will call her every single day. And observe to their once a week dates?!!!! I spiral out of consciousness...... Fainted on the spot. But... I refused to give up! I wan to save the marriage!I chose to ignore all hurts and what he insist on continuing.... Just cos I wan him back. This... causes my heart to rip up slowly, day by day.

23rd November'09 - I finally cannot take it. It's burning me way too greatly. I caved in to myself.... and called her. Called her office number. Our conversations... burned me greatly.

1) I asked her. Why did you step into our marriage despite knowing we have kids?!!! Her response : What?!!! You both have kids?!!! F***, he lied to me! Cos he said you all don't have kids, thus I decided to give him a chance to be with me. In my heart. I was already thinking. So... you didn't mind to be a third party after all.
2) Did you both have sex while at Bangkok? Answer is: Yes. I almost blacked out again.
3) Who paid for the trip. Answer is: My husband. He was so damn deep in debt! And he paid for her trip?!!!!! He disappointed me so much!

Those are the 3 main questions I need to find out. And we proceed to talk about everything my hubby share with her and shared with me. End up, we both decided to create a confrontation with my husband. With then, both me and her left my husband at the same time. She walked off first. I walked off later.

Gal... however much you wan to trust your husband. You should not torture yourself this way! You should love yourself!!!! Why did you wan to fall into the lies of your husband? Is platonic friendship also allowed in your marriage with your husband?! We should never even allow platonic opposite sex friendship once we are married!

Take a gamble dear. Walk off..... be away from him. It need not end up in divorce. It's to give each other space to realise the importance we are in each other's heart. Don't you want that to happen?

I walked off. He broke up with her on the spot. He looked for me. And fought to win me back. He reports to me every single day now. He is on time home.... he fetch me home from work.... and refused to let me out of sight. Fight the battle! If you love him, love him with sense and logic. Not love him, yet allow him to hurt you at the same time!

I hope I'm not offensive in any ways. I just hope, no other woman should suffer the way I suffer through. I lost 12kg. I lost loads of calcium. My gum bleeds now and then. I get giddy spells on and off. I don't deserve all these. I loved him with all my heart and all my respects. I should get back the same treatment.
 
well,
i've started to be open abt sharing..but the exact details, but little bits here and there. i fin it difficult to talk about it still.. still very fresh and raw. i dont understand why i cant be more generous to live and let live. i dont know why i'm still obsessing over every detail. He told me one of the places he'd brought them to for dinner. and that was one of my fav places. now i dont even want to step there anymore. i dont even want to recall that place knowing that he's tainted it by bringing her and her daughters there.i've developed a hatred so deep for them that it scares me..that was only ONE of the places.. he must have brought them out so many other times. eating, having fun, chatting, laughing while i was pregnant and alone by myself having no appetite to eat because no one was available to have dinner with me, night after night after night.

i keep wavering between feeling that i've let it go.. but yet i keep returning to the same point again. my next appt with my dr is this week... i seriously look forward to it.

he suggested going for a short holiday.suddenly, today. after me repeatedly suggested and having it shot down. i should be happy, but i feel like i'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.

chilli queen,
i'm so sorry to hear your story..i hope he's finally really seen the light and has truly regretted and reformed. isnt it frightening to have the closest person to you turn outside when you need him the most? isnt it frightening to realise that lying knows no limits?

i know i should rely on sense and logic, but at this point, the voices in my head are much louder than anything else. i need to shut the voices out before i can rely on my logic again.
 
Stardust,

When you said, you know about him bringing them to your favorite restaurant to have dinner. And the thought of going back there, is impossible right now. It reminds me of my own experience.....

I spoke to him, countless time. That we shall go to Bangkok. I so so so wish to go Bangkok without my parents around.... He promised me that. And yet, the first time he'd been to Bangkok, it's with her. Now, he's attempting to bring me there with him. I know of the hotel they stayed in, the room they stayed in. It scars me so much, just with the thought of Bangkok.

I so so so love Japanese food. And whenever we go out, I will prompt him to have Japanese food with me. But... he'll keep diverting to the food he love. I also love Hong Kong Char Chang Ting. But to find out, he brought her there for lunch! Something he never did with me. Now, whenever he suggested about having Japanese food and Hong Kong food... I'll just smile and divert the topic away. It hurts so much in me.....
 


For me, the past is past. Whatever past your gf/bf or wife/hb did in the past is gone.

Ya, just because they been to such a such a restaurant or being to such a such a hotel, we have to think so much?

It is the NOW that is important. The is the NOW behaviour that is important to us.

And I don't think it is healthy to dwell too much about the past in a negative way.. wary of places they have been to..
 
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