Innocent flirting?

Stardust,

Like simpleman says, I do not wish to enhance any negativity, but I agree with him that you should at this point judge not with words and values, but with behavior. It seems your hubby wins you time and again with words and values, but his behavior should tell you what you already know deep inside.

It would not be fair to draw parallels as we are 2 different people, but to throw you a word of caution, our story is same to the last bit. Except for that perhaps it is because I might be older than you, or started my story earlier, thus now although I am still married for my children's sake, it took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that I married a man who might have once loved me, but after 10 years not love me like he did, or like he insists (yes even now) that he does. Like you, I am an intelligent and articulate lady, but we learn our lessons and for me it is never be too proud to rule out the impossible. We can in front of others, but not in our hearts. Our hearts deserved only the truth or we will never really find peace. Truth is not truth if we guess, or say things like "benefit of the doubt", "I choose to trust him".

I dated my husband since 14 and married at 26. I also trusted him totally, but my poison was always saying I know him better than myself, having known him for so long. Looking back, I was too proud. Like you, I tend to mention that I have known him since 14, I trust him regardless. I am now 28. I have learnt that we cannot stubbornly hold on to the believe that if we know people since they are young, or know them for a long time, we therefore know them now. For me it was worse because I refused to believe that people change, I always thought people are fundamentally the same. And if we refuse to believe it, we are blind to this change in a person and continue to live in denial.

He told me the smses, emails from pimps, some other a/cs, all these were on behalf of friends. Also left numbers unnamed, smses at night. Remember that there is no 1 way sms. Now 2 years on, how stupid I was, beating myself to believe so badly that I didn't even realise, online is anonymous-haven, his friend/s would have been able to stay anonymous with their own dodgy a/cs. And to post his reviews of his sexual experiences with other girls, wouldn't his friends have to type the post themselves anyway, on their computers? What is the difference starting an a/c under your hubby's name? Unless you are saying they detail their experiences to him and he types it out for them on his own computer. Strange to you, no?

I just want to say, and I may be wrong, perhaps you are in denial because you are already with child and married, people see you as the perfect family unit and there is no way you can imagine life otherwise. So you know you have no other choice than to grit your teeth and continue on. I say this because this is the case for me. I will definitely at this point not divorce even though I know he is no longer the man that loved me. But I still love him because I remember him for the way he was. Sad, I know.

He is still as charming as I first knew him, endearing also and says all the correct things.

But when I hired a PI eventually after I was finally prepared for the truth, I thought I would not be able to handle it, but surprisingly, I was at peace. When I took the pictures out from the envelope, I was looking at what I already knew in my heart. But seeing is believing, and at that moment I fully understood the meaning of this sentence.

The truth can hurt but the lie will hurt longer.

Well this is just my story, I really wish you all the best and hope you can tide through this!
 


Small Love - Just curious, what happened after that? Did you confront him with the photos, or just carried on except now with the truth?
 
hi small love,
i'm so sorry to hear your story. i agree that there is really no way to find out the truth if a person hides it intentionally. i did ask on the part of why do they need to use his name and email address where they can easily set up a bogus one on their own? his answer was so that when they are found out, its easier to tell their wives that its wasnt them, its MY husband. i believe because like you, i want to believe, and i want to trust, and i don't think i can accept it if the truth was any other way than what he told me.

i'm not prepared to go all out to find out if what he told me were truths or lies, because i'm not prepared to accept anything else other that what he told me. perhaps i'm weak, yes, but do i see myself filing for divorce should i discover that it was all lies all along? right now, no. just like you. perhaps in time to come when i've learnt to grow stronger and be able to take care of my children on my own. i used to tell him all the time that i would definitely leave if he were unfaithful, but to be frank, now i'm not too sure.

i just hope that he knows how much i love him, and that since i've chosen him to give my heart and my life to, he wouldn't hurt me because he loves me too.

so what are u intending to do now? does your husband know that u've found out all? what exactly did the photos show?
 
Hi AB,

I carry on. You think you know love but when you become a mother (not sure if you are, you might be), that's when you really know love.

As for the photos, I keep them in my drawer. They remind me of sadness, but at times they also remind me of love. Is it fair to deny someone the best feeling in the world because you think they belong to you?

One thing though is nothing is absolute except birth and death. Even truth today can become a lie tomorrow. When you say I love you, it really means I love you now. But how about next year, 10 years later, or 30 years later? You can say yes I still will, I just know. But truly, how do you know? Do we trust ourselves so much? If we trust our brains so much, we probably wouldn't be a commoner here, but someone doing very great things outside.

For every idea there is a better one, that's how things are invented. Similarly for every feeling there is a stronger one. If we say we are strong, we can resist, we can survive through, it may not be because we are strong, but because the new obstacle is not strong enough. Everyone has a breaking point, if we are unlucky or lucky enough to experience it.

That is why like what stardust says, it is not cheating, or an affair per se that gets use down, but eventually the deceit and insincerity that inevitably came with it.
 
Hi Stardust,

He might or might not know, and since he is a clever guy, how much he knows depends on the extent to which he wants to find out, which may be little or much.

For me now, it's not a problem. Cheating with multiple people for thrill doesn't threaten me because I know even though it means we have fallen out of love, he will at the end of the day come home to support me, even if not emotionally.

The problem that has not happened is if he has an affair, which means he might leave this family. And since when a guy cheats, he has already fallen out of love, which means his heart is now open to new love, which comes when someone he finds attractive physically and emotionally comes along.
 
"Is it fair to deny someone the best feeling in the world because you think they belong to you?"

"That is why like what stardust says, it is not cheating, or an affair per se that gets use down, but eventually the deceit and insincerity that inevitably came with it."

small love, the above strikes a chord. So true. The pains of having someone so close turning out to be a total stranger. If it's any consolation, we grow from it & experience strength we never knew we had. I wish u all the best, no matter wat route u choose to take.
 
small love,

not everyone is fitted to live life as one big fat lie and r u not sulking already... sad isn't it? whatever ur plan is, just be sure u do it in ur best interest n no regrets. cos happiness always evades those who choose to throw in the towel and resign themselves to fate when faced wif adversity...

one more thing... stop all intimacies wif him if u can and go for a thorough checkup. he might not be clean... well, all the best.
 
small love,

I so admire your strength and your ability to remain calm and rational, just like Stardust.

I suppose unless one has been in your shoes, they truly do not know what it's like. People (myself included) tend to judge prematurely and think they know exactly what they'll do in a particular situation, but let's face it, not everything is black and white and life has many grey areas.

I might think that this would never happen to me and if it did, I will get a divorce immediately, but that's easy to say right now when everything is peachy. After reading your post and trying to be honest with myself, I realise that I might just have done the same thing as you.

I hope you do what's best for you and your child, and most importantly, what makes both of you happy. I agree with Junkie that you should do what's in your (incl your child's) best interest and with no regrets.

Take care, I wish you happiness and courage. =)
 
I agree with you ladies. We will choose things based on where we are at in life. On the same issue our thoughts today may well be different from that tomorrow. There is no point thinking ahead of time, like what you would do if such and such happens to you. But one thing I do know, I want to be happy because if I am not happy myself, I won't be able to bring happiness to the people around me, which will defeat the purpose of being together. So that would motivate, guide and lead me to make a wise decision, whatever it would be.
 
hi small love,
that's very true, about not knowing real love unless a mother ourselves. that's why i said, that in the past i used to tell my husband that if i ever found out he was unfaithful to me,i would leave because staying would be too painful to bear. i didnt think i could stand to see someone whom i love so deeply, shared so much with, day in and out, pretending everything was fine, when i know deceit was part of it. but for my kids, i could swallow all the pain, pretend nothing is wrong, and ensure that they grow up in a 'happy' family. but the worst thing is, i wouldn't be able to accept the fact that the man i loved for so long and so deeply, would bear to put me through this sort of mental and emotional torture.

perhaps by the time when u found out the real truth, you've been numbed by too many lies. and with that numbness, you have started to see things more objectively, instead of an involved person. and i guess by that time, your love for him has retreated back deep into your soul, and it doesnt hurt so much anymore.

my husband always tells me that many of the ppl he knows leads a double life. he asked one of them who has a long standing mistress why did he choose to do so, was it because he doesnt love or even like his wife anymore. the fella replied that he loves his wife, and he doesnt know the answer to that question.

but what was it that triggered you to hire the PI? i wont ask abt the objective, i suppose it was to give you a peace of mind, so that when u know the truth, you wouldnt be stuck in this truth/lie situation, this game that your husband is putting you thru. am i somewhat right?

trusting him was easy before i knew of all these. now after that little white lie he told, i now have to choose to believe or not to believe his other words. and that's why i said i choose to.
 
"but for my kids, i could swallow all the pain, pretend nothing is wrong, and ensure that they grow up in a 'happy' family."

If you are not happy yourself, do you really think the people close to you like your children or family could miss that out? They probably do not know why you are unhappy but they could feel that you are not happy. How do you raise happy children in this manner?

I am not questioning your choice. I believe you have already asked or would ask these questions to yourself one day.
 
Hi Stardust,

Actually it was initiated cos my parents are lawyers and suggested I do so as you never know when things take an unexpected turn for the worse.

But the PI was necessary for me to bring some closure to this torturous chapter in my life. It was easier for me to put everything behind and start anew mentally.
 
Doll & Junkie,

I couldn't agree less with you. When things came to light, I'd gone for a check up and cured a minor STD.

Doll is very right. I have a close friend and an acquantaince, both of whom divorced and raised their children alone. Because their parents are so enlightened and open, the children are carefree and happy, and seem to be more aware than other children how much their remaining parent loves them. This option is still unexplored for me and may be a road of greater happiness.

Stardust, I'm sure you will likely find your way around. I guess you already know, life's like a book and this is but one chapter. Each time we read only the next chapter because that's what we are mentally prepared for.
 
hmm... i hate to say these, but continuing to stay in a r/s like this because of children, does not work in the long run. Kids know, ok. Maybe not when they are still a baby, but when they turn 4 or 5 onwards, they will know, without you telling them.

It would be more painful for them later in life. And mothers who put up with their unfaithful husband who no longer love them, will find that sacrifice unnecessary. (if you do not need to rely on the man financially).
 
yah rite, there r well-adjusted kids from single-parent units...
and there r insecure and wayward kids from dysfunctional families...
 
perhaps i will only know what to do should the situation arise, but as of now, my trust is still with him, and i can only hope that i would never have the need to make such a decision.

small love,
my blessings and well wishes are with you and your future. sometimes i wonder if it'll be better if we, meaning women, married someone we liked but didnt love. just to protect ourselves. its just a nonsensical musing at times when i felt really low and tired. but i cannot imagine living without the joy of loving and being loved in return.

thankfully you managed to catch the STD in time. didnt your husband know anything when u realised u caught it?
 
"I have a close friend and an acquantaince, both of whom divorced and raised their children alone. Because their parents are so enlightened and open, the children are carefree and happy, and seem to be more aware than other children how much their remaining parent loves them."

Small Love

My bf started living separately from his wife when his daughter was barely three. Today, she is six.

One day he told me how the little girl cried telling him on the phone that she loved and missed daddy when her weekend stay with him was cut short, and how this had touched his heart which almost broke too. Even my heart went out to her though I have not met her in person yet.

I asked if he has considered reconciling with his wife for the sake of his daughter. After all, he is no longer angry with what his wife has done years back, and that the girl has started shuttling between them since three. That's a very young age, too young and tender for reality bites.

Well, his answer was "No". They - the adults and child, are happy living life this way. Wife and him are like family members now, and together they focus in raising their child. This was not possible at all when they were living in marital stress.

He believes this is one of the wisest decision he has made in life. He is such a happy person now. No regrets.

And that's one of the main factors that drew me to him initially. At that time I felt somewhat bothered by something that has happened in my life. His capacity to feel happy is so strong; it spreads.

We are happy being together. So, simply, we meet because we feel happy spending time together.
 
Continued from above.....

Like he's said I could do a real good piece of write-up (my profession involves a significant amount of writing) but I may have omitted a comma or full-stop here and there. And he is around to point out those blindspots he can see.

I don't know what the future will hold for us. I feel it's not necessary for me to think ahead of time expecting the relationship to take a certain form in the future. Today, I feel very happy and fortunate to have met a wise person and that he is in my life now. I have never been so at peace with myself when being with another person.

Though having gone through a divorce myself a couple of years back, I am not saying that separation or divorce is the only way for you to feel happy, simply because there are people who feel equally miserable after walking out of an unhappy marriage. It all depends on how we live out our decision I guess, that really matters.
 
Yeah, if anyone want an example of being happy in separation and divorce and still raising three children and have a happy family - I can share my example. Or rather, it is a long story but it is in my blog.

Basically like what doll has mentioned, it depends on what you want. You can have happiness despite the many setbacks.

1) Separation is not necessary bad. My wife separated from me even as initially I resisted it. It has become one of the turning point in my life

2) I did not initiate divorce until after 4 years later. Separation did wonder to our relationship.
the 3 children are with me all these while and we love more than than when we were happily married because each of us now give 100% - cos in the past we could just give less than 100% because we know our spouse is giving the other half

3) When the divorce is initiated. Just a formality. No fireworks. Everyone is happy.

4) For the children they have more love than ever.

5) For us as single, we are free to pursue our own interest.. When I have a date, I asked my ex-wife to take care of the children.

6) We still spend special occasions like xmas, cny, birthdays etc etc together as a family.

7) Other than my wife is not staying in the same house, actually nothing changes. She is as much involve in my children's life as me. In fact she spent more time with time on their studies and coaching them.
 
"Like he's said I could do a real good piece of write-up (my profession involves a significant amount of writing) but I may have omitted a comma or full-stop here and there. And he is around to point out those blindspots he can see."

doll, i must admit his analogy is def good... sure can make u see stars liao. keke....
 
yes perhaps so. many of the delinquents i see everyday are usually products of divorced families, but parents are not involved. they themselves push the child from place to place and they themselves change partners frequently, resulting in the child not having a permanent home and not feeling love.

I fall into alternating periods of feeling confident that my husband has done nothing wrong, and a little worried that he has and is just trying to keep me from finding out. of course apart from the little lie abt not knowing who smsed him, the lying by omission of him visiting such ktvs and nightclubs, the email that was sent to a pimp and the posts in that forum, he has displayed nothing out of the contrary. and to be fair, there wasn't a trail of such stuff, just a once off thing, unless there were more that has been deleted or destroyed, which i highly doubt. judging based on this, i think i'm taking quite a safe gamble in having confidence in him.

of course i usually feel the negative way when he's not with me, but i guess that's natural. and that's when i've got to consciously remind myself to stop feeling negative.

doll,
i think you two have a wonderful relationship, and i guess its because both of you have pasts, and have learnt a great deal separately, that you are now able to enter into a fresh, new life together. it takes alot of courage and strength to move on, even more than choosing to stay i think.

sm,
if only more adults are as responsible as you two, we wouldn't see so many children throwing their lives away for the mistakes that their parents made or are making. may i ask at which point did you finally feel that it was time to let go? since you mentioned you initially resisted.
 
stardust,

i'm not so certain on the deliquency from divorced families... my observation points more to neglect & the absence of love, than from divorced parents... i think Awareness is crucial to making one's decisions... and that means being very aware of our innermost reasons and thoughts - most of which we will not speak of.

there's an inborn weakness in local pple to Fear, justify Fear, and use Fear as a reason/excuse... when instead, they should conquer those fears... And i sometimes see it spilt-over to relationship issues, particularly with regards to leaving a person when all the signs show that they should not stay...

by the way, i'm just thinking aloud... i think both u and 'small love' showed a maturity beyond most pple's comprehension of the complexities. of cos we're still hit by social pressure and peer opinions from time to time. given the current state both physical/mental that u're in, i dun think i'd be able to cope as well as u...

i just wanna share that u dun have to worry abt your kids going bad if u divorce, becos it really isn't the divorce... but rather - the quality of parents.
 
yes i very much agree it is the fear of the unknown that keeps ppl in certain situations, be it relationships or even a job. i think small love has shown a tremendous courage on her part, to know when enough is enough, and to take measures to confirm her worst fears. i cant even say if i would be brave enough to take that very first step, although i must say again that i do not think it necessary.

i must say that whenever he's asleep, i'm still tempted to look at his phone, or sometimes when i put the laundry into the machine, i think of checking his clothes for traces of perfume or make up. i have to consciously tell myself to stop thinking in this way. how ironic, isn't it? i questioned his self control earlier on, and now i find myself having to fall back on mine.

i guess its just imaginings, or perhaps i feel lonely and a lack of companionship whenever he's not at home til 2-3 am when i've already fallen asleep alone. i do really wish he could spend more time with me over this period, but unfortunately i know he has things he needs to do, and he's not totally responsible for me and how i feel. and i have to let him go. but i cannot help but feel lonely when i go to bed alone at night.
 
"i think you two have a wonderful relationship, and i guess its because both of you have pasts, and have learnt a great deal separately, that you are now able to enter into a fresh, new life together. it takes alot of courage and strength to move on, even more than choosing to stay i think."

Hi Stardust, I think most importantly we do not let our past get to us? It's wonderful to feel liberated.....I took a couple of years to slowly get here.
 
stardust,

we are an Individual FIRST.

there's never certainty in life and love, when we Fear - the uncertainties frighten us, undo us, plays with our minds and toys with our emotions... it makes us Fear and Fear til our thoughts are lost and obsessed with just 1 result, we want to know yet we Fear to know... we Fear to know yet we want to know...

we spend so much of our lives trying to define ourselves as part of a couple, that without THAT definition, we no longer feel we are who we are... But if we Never forget that we're Individuals, if we Never forget that We Are Who We Are long before our partners came - then perhaps we'll find the courage we need to change things, and the nonchalance we need to stay indifferent becos we Have Been Failed.

i dun know abt u, but i've lost all fears of the emotional losses. Not becos i'm not afraid, but becos i've come to Accept that Life is Such, and Such is Life.

i do not profess to know the fear u know, but i have known fear nonetheless...
- Fear of poverty from young, living in 1rm flat and eating watery rice with soya sauce + 3 pieces of cai xin... from which u dun even know if your life will ever change or how u can make good. Fear of being poor... but at least - u are an Individual.
- Fear of failure, where u're always the last, always the one who get red marks and u dun even know if u'll be pulled away from your beloved buddies in school simply becos your grades were bad. at that age, the school and class is our only life, and we Fear not having that security, we fear not progressing to sec school and to jc with the gang. we're still an individual, but the bonds are there.
- Fear of future, when my only mentor in life died before i hit my 21st bday. i see pple whose father could guide them, be their guarantor for things, give them the little loan needed to tie thru things or buy a car... but i had none of these, my father has ceased to exist and life is just mum and me. i'm envious when frens had freedom and do not need to worry abt their parents' loneliness, as compared with having a lonely widowed mum... Fear of burden. but im still an individual...
- Fear of failure... why isit that pple tell me where i should go, what i should do and how much i am worth? are they right? u mean my lousy grades determine my future? i remain responsible for my own future.

i share with u my fears from an early age... of cos, there's more but i dun intend to write a novel.

Fear comes at every point of our lives, and staying serenaded does nothing but keeps us dwelling in fear... i'm now a father, my kid just had a nitemare... i held her hand, gave her a sense of security, then patted her to sleep. One day she will have to deal with fears, and i will not be there for her... what i can leave her, are the lessons i've gathered from my life.

it's the uncertainties in life that makes life so liveable. monotony is Death in living...

i hope u feel the essence... it isn't your Fears i'm addressing. there's something else in there which u need to Recover...
 
doll,
it must have been a difficult journey, but yes, i think the liberation comes when one finally learns to let go. it may be years, but hey, you're one living example of how its possible. =)

powder,
how very true, perhaps i should learn to let my emotions take a back seat. i really dont want to be a slave to emotions. i'm really curious to know how i would handle this period if i werent pregnant. would i have handled it differently?

anyway, i'd like to tell a big joke. my husband was out with that same waitress i mentioned in my first post tonight. i mean, last night, since its now already 6am, and i havent been able to sleep since 3am.

he already told me that he has to go out again tonight - he went to this place at peace centre. with business partners. and yes i know that place has hostesses, but i wasnt really bothered about that. but i could sense something was different with him during dinner with my son n i, before he went off.

i can't really pinpoint what tipped him off, it was just my instincts again. he received a call during dinner at arouund 8 plus, and i heard him confirming the time to meet. i suppose he thought i would assume its his male aquaintance.

he told me to sms him when i got home myself, and i called him instead, but in 20 minutes when i called 3 times and he didnt answer, i knew something wasnt right again. anyway, he called back in a while after my last missed call, and he explained that he didnt hear his phone before. why would he not hear his phone while he was in his car? a better lie would be that he was on the line, wouldnt it? i thought it was suspicious that he would take so long to get from our place to where he was going, twice the usual time, actually, which led me to believe that he went to fetch someone, or to meet someone.

when he came back at 3 plus, he didnt immediately come to bed like he usually would but watched tv for a while before coming in. my instincts kicked in even harder but i told myself to stop thinking rubbish time and time again. i couldnt sleep and he came in to bed at nearer to 4.

and i did something i promised, PROMISED myself never to do again, i looked at his phone. saw an sms that he received at 330am. i didnt understand the message coz the english was so bad - "listey carefully. i gg back ty to the place where i bring. pls book for me even if i die. thank ;-)" the person who sent was listed as a lady's name plus her company at the end. i couldnt for my life make out what she was saying, so i looked at his call log. he received a call from this person at 8.11pm (that was during dinner, i mentioned this call earlier, so it confirmed that it really wasnt a male as i suspected, his tone was different), and he called this number again at 8.49pm, when he'd just left, i suppose to tell her that he was on his way to pick her up (so i was right about him going to fetch someone or meet someoone).

Then i checked the number for this listing, and it was the same number as that waitress in my first post. i almost burst out laughing, but yet at the same time i felt my heart wither - LITERALLY.

not wanting to leave this, i woke him up and asked him about it. as expected, he acted blur and then insisted that it was a different number, and that they were two different persons. only after several attempts to make me think i'm stupid, then he told me the truth, it was her, and he only asked her along to entertain his biz partners, "because she entertains really well" ( in his own words)

i felt as if i was thrown into hell once again. we talked about it, while i was crying uncontrollably, may i add. his explanation was, because i was so suspicious of him lately, he didnt dare to tell me that she was joining them. he said he was only making use of her since he knows she likes him, and she is a good entertainer, and he's only treating her as any usual ktv girl whom he sits with (he says every guy has a girl next to him at such ktvs). he told me that he lied about her the very first time because he was afraid i would get jealous, and he thought this way because he himself would get jealous should he know of a guy who likes me too. he got pretty worked up and seemed really at his wit's end when he asked me why can't i trust him? and that all my suspicions has led him to lie again and again to me, even though he says he hasnt done anything wrong and has nothing to hide, and even to the extent of him thinking of really doing something wrong just to spite me.

i've never felt like such a failure in my life. we ended with me asking, pleading even, him not to lie anymore. i told him i can take truths, as long as there's a reasonable explanation, but i cannot take lies. and he promised never to lie again.

so i ask myself, what do i have to fear?i reall don;t know. fear that he's still lying? fear that i've wronged him? of what? how can one be afraid of failing, when i've already failed as a wife? i was suspicious, i checked, i had runaway thoughts, i pushed my own husband to even THINK of being unfaithful even though he hasnt done anything wrong, i cry, i questioned, and if i were him, i'd too rather spend time with HER, than with a wife like myself. i can't believe i would detest someone so much without even meeting her, knowing her. but i do! and what's worse, i hate myself more.
 
stardust, don't blame yourself. U are not wrong. I was in almost in the same situation as u. I understand how u feel. If u want someone to talk to PM me.
 
stardust,

what did u do that makes u hate yourself, when without doing it u'll crumble? i dun think any of us here would have fared any better given all the circumstances u're in right now... And i agree tat it's suspicious. it's not so much as trust, but rather...

he is giving More Cause for Suspicion than Trust.
i think tat's the crux... giving More Cause for Suspicion than Trust. so it's something u have to let him understand...

there's something i dun understand - which is why he is not sending u home. it's a prelude.
 
stardust,

I know the feeling.. of being suspicious.. it is actually much worse than knowing the truth.

Personally I have two advices:

a) Go all out and find the truth.. even to the extent of engaging a PI. It will confirm once and for all that your hb is innocent or it will prove that he is lying all these while.. either way, you can decide what to do. This feeling of suspicion is going to kill you sooner or later..

b) Have trust in your hb and stop all the probings and checkings. I know it is tough but if you dare not face or know the truth, it is better to pretend that there is nothing and no check. Trust him. show him that you trust him. If he is innocent, he will appreciate it and this will strengthen your relationship. If he is guilty, he may let his guard down..
 
margret,
unfortunately i do find myself in the wrong. i feel i've failed as a wife that he feels the need to lie to me at all. everything that i was proud of myself for being turned out to be just an illusion. i'm still lumped together as all other wives who are possessive, suspicious, jealous and mistrustful. isnt that the biggest failure?

powder,
the partly above answers the question to why i hate myself. and other part stems from why couldnt i have controlled checking on him? that was the first thing that i failed in. but yes, how could i have not done it when my instincts were screaming out at me that something wasnt right? but would things have been better if i hadnt found out? i dont know what to think. what can i SAY, what words can i use to describe the sort of emotional struggle that i'm going through right now?

he didnt send me home because we both drove. i went over to my in law's place earlier to spend time with my son and he dropped by only after he finished work.

it may sound childish, but i dont think i want to sit in his car anymore, knowing that SHE sat in the same seat as i do.

sm,
yes, very true. there is no closure for being suspicious. i think i gave in to the urge to check not to find evidence of infidelity, but to gain reassurance when i see nothing. unfortunately, both times i checked, the same person was involved.

he actually encouraged me to engage a PI, so that i can finally have a peace of mind that he really is not doing anything wrong. and i said if i really did, i would have loads of photos which showed he lied yesterday. would i have to see him with his arms around her before .. what? i don't know, i really don't.

he gave very reasonable explanations. she entertains well and that's why he invited her along. -- to me, it means he enjoys her company. i don't know how many times she has gone out with him, and that's what kills me! in what capacity is she going out with him as?!?! his girlfriend? how does he introduce her to others there? his girlfriend? how easy is it for them to proceed to the next level, i really cannot bear thinking.

I know ppl in hurt say this all the time, and it's just a figure of speech, but i really want to die, i do. its so tough pretending to be okay in front of my colleagues the whole day today, when all i want to do and hide away and cry.
 
stardust,

is it possible for u to temporarily stay away from him and move back to ur maternal home? u need gd company to divert ur attention else u will sink into deeper depression... pls, for the sake of ur unborn child...
 
stardust, u're beating urself up too hard. Dun set the bar too high for urself & acknowledge tat u're only human. I too prided myself on being an independent, self-assured woman. Never felt the need to constantly check on my ex. I had total trust in him & he appreciated it. Yet tat trust was subsequently betrayed.

The urge to check is inexplicable. I'm not proud to say tat I've done it too. Can't say I knew why then. I believe now tat it's coz I needed to know the truth. If he was no longer in love wif me, I needed to make other plans. The suspicion on a daily basis was pure torture. If he wasn't going to do anything abt it, I had to.

There is no rite or wrong answer to tis. For now, sm's 2 options are really all tat u can consider.
 
stardust,

I agree with SM's advice. Its either you find out the truth or you have to let it go (totally trust your husband). But if you have decided to find out the truth, pls be mentally prepared for the worst.

BTW, when is your EDD date? I'm not sure if it is better to wait until you deliver.
 
it's quite possible that they are frens, yet Yes - it's hard not to imagine that more could happen. the answers also hard to assess even if i've been in the scene for a decade.

so i think the 2 options sm gave are prob what can lay the demons to rest on this issue. i've never been an advocate of PIs and checking, but i dun see this as checking on him to control him, but the purpose here is to hold on to your sanity and find answers which u are ready to handle.
 
Ya, the urge to check is always there.

Even as I pride myself for being an extremely rational being, when it comes to affairs of the heart - when it comes to someone we love and value dearly - we want to know the truth.. and checking is one way to lay the demons to rest. If you have doubts, you either confirm it or you should reject it. You can't let it eat you up. You may actually do more harm to the relationship - or you could in fact drive your love ones further from you.

But at a certain point if the checks are negative then you should put it all behind and give trust fully. Trust is a very complicated form of communication and it works both ways.
 
thank you so much, all of you. you cant imagine how much your replies has helped me and are helping me along.

its not possible to move back, i dont want anyone to know what has transpired between us. to be fair to him, he most probably is telling the truth, based on the man i knew so well. although now i feel like i dont know him anymore, this person who lied to me.

i'm expected to deliver in october, and no, i'm not prepared to accept any other truth other than what he has told me. Am i being stupid? i want to believe him so much, but i really cannot accept his explanation of why must she be there at his biz gatherings? is she so important? in what capacity? i can only think of girlfriend. he's never asked me along before, am i on a level even below her? yes, she can entertain, whatever, and i can't .so doesnt the ktv they go to have hostnesses to entertain too? and i'm prepared to trust him with all the ladies, why is he giving me another reason to mistrust him again?

i'm losing my mind, i'm losing my sense of direction. i'm losing myself. my colleagues casually mentioned why i was so happy today, and laughed so much. how can i tell them that the only other option is to cry my heart out?

i really canot help myself, i hate her so much, i can;t explain it, but i just do.even if he's really telling all truths, i just still detest her so much that i'm scaring myself. am i turning into a monster? i'm so afraid of being alone. i can put on a front when others are around, but now the days of dropping tears the moment i get on my car are beginning to return.

i dont think i should hire a PI, because deep down i still want to believe that the man i loved for so long and eventually married, the man i was prepared to spend my life with for better or worse, is still the same guy.

but for now, i'm still walking along this treacherous path alone, because i dont think he has the patience to explain himself to me anymore. and i dont even blame him for it, although i really need the emotional support.

for evey hellhole i climb out of, there seems to be another one waiting for me to fall in. how can i be strong enough to walk through this time alone? so alone?
 
My sense is you are jealous of that lady. If you are not prepared to go all out to find out the truth, you have to pull yourself together and think clearly what is your next step, else you'll cont to suffer and its not good for your baby.

When your No. 2 arrives, you'll have more things to handle and if your hubby continues to go out at nite and entertain, I'm quite sure you'll suffer post natal blues.

Just curious, did your hubby spare a thought for you since you are now pregnant and might not be emotionally stable at times?

Sometimes, I feel that we might be married to the person we love but at times, we still have to rely on ourselves. No one can help us all the time e.g. going thru labor pain, when you need to go for a op., when you are helpless with a family member with terminal illness and dun know what to do to help etc.

I'm sad to say these but this is life.
 
"doll, it must have been a difficult journey, but yes, i think the liberation comes when one finally learns to let go. it may be years, but hey, you're one living example of how its possible. =)

Stardust, being able to put behind the past is but only one part of liberalisation. Even in a relationship now the bf and I are primarily individuals and free people. We are together because we are happy being with each other, and that we can develop as individuals yet grow as a couple. Even if one day we do get married, this very essence shall remain with us.

Perhaps because I have experienced some of the lowest points one could have in life - divorce and the passing of my most beloved person on earth (my dad) - I realised that the worse is not in any type of experience but what we make of it. Who knows, there might be worse things that will come my way in future but I know the heart will not fail. And that gives me the courage to fear not.
 
meagain1,
yes you're very much correct. i am jealous, so much jealous that its eating me up. why is she the one that he's spending time with when i need him with me especially at this time? why is she the one that gets to join him outside late at night while i'm at home alone? why is she the one that perhaps get to see more of him than myself? why is she so important to him that even after promising to stop contacting her, he went anoher step further and asked her out to be with him? why is she even significant enough to have the power to enable him to put me through this emotional hell?? there are so many things going through my head, and each one is tearing me heart open a little more each time.

doll,
i wish i was free too, but i'm too bound by how much i love him and my family. even if i get an open door to freedom, i might not take it. i dont even know what is fear now, what am i afraid of? of him really lying? of her being more important to him than me? of him enjoying her company more than mine?or the thought of losing the family i love so much and depend so much on. i dont know how to decide which is the truth or which are lies anymore, and i'm tired, so tired. i wish i could just close my eyes and leave forever, and not have to deal with this very real part of life.
 
If you believe in God, don't worry. Cause by worrying, you don't trust him.
Whatever lies in the future, we may not know. It is today's experience that will guide us through those unexpected moments that are heading towards us.
Do not regret what you've done cause you must believe that you've given your best shot.
Destiny is shaped the moment you've make a decision.
When you feel that the world had forsaken you, God did not. The people in this room did not.
Be strong Star... for you may not be as bright as the moon or the sun, at least, you still gives out light to this world.
 
anthony,
thanks for the encouraging words. whatever light i might have had before seem to be extinguished already.and i dont know how to light it up again.

we;ve talked about it, and he told me that she is just someone whom he can connect really well with, and she's definitely not his girlfriend, although he knows he likes her, he's made it clear that he has a happy family. but i just sense that there's something more to it than what it seems. i don't want to be overly suspicious, but when i add everything up together it still doesnt feel right. i can understand why he lied about going out with her subsequently, because of how i reacted to when i first found out her call and sms to him. but the very first lie was the one that still makes me very uncomfortable. if i were in his shoes, and i didnt have anything to hide and my conscience was clear, i would have told him the truth, that there's this guy whom i get along well with, he likes me but i do not reciprocate, but i find it fun to flirt back. lying about it puts more importance to their relationship, am i making sense?

he keeps reassuring me that there's really nothing goin on between them. i do appreciate him trying to allay my worries and insecurities. when he's around with me, i feel as safe and secure as the day i realised i had feelings for him more than a decade ago. i find myself telling myself - yes, i'm being silly. how can i even think that he would be unfaithful to me? and i'm happy. but when he's not around, i find myself going in another direction, that he's turned into another person, a man who lies, hoping that i wouldnt find out, who said all those things he said just to pacify me, but are all empty. and i find myself spiralling down again. i dont know how long this emotional rollar coaster is going to last.

i had to sit in his car today, and i felt so uncomfortable sitting in a place that she has sat on before. for every second that passes, i keep imagining her sitting in such close confines with him, and i wonder what they talk about? does he smile at her? tell her his thoughts that he doesnt even tell me about? talking about things that only they share and have in common. i find myself looking out for things that she might have left behind and i felt like such an outsider intruding in their space. and every second that passed, the tug in my heart got stronger and stronger until i couldn't breathe and all i wanted to do was cry, but i couldnt because he was there. he keeps reminding me that i'm his wife, he loves me and that we're meant to be together. he said that he loves me too much to even take the risk that he might lose me. so i kept telling myself that over and over again, but sometimes the despair that comes over me is so heavy, its suffocating.

on another matter, he admitted that he had indeed touched and hugged other women while he was at those ktv. he explained that he was drunk and dancing with them at those times. and he puts his arm around their shoulders when they sit next to him. he said that he had to because otherwise what would his biz partners think if he just sat there like a goondu while everyone else was doing it. i can frankly say, the moment those images flashed across my mind, my heart broke even more, more than i thought it had been broken before. at that moment, i felt as if he was a stranger to me. have i really loved for so long and so deep a guy like that? who is he now? what has he turned into? i dont like this person who is so touchy feely with other women, who gets so drunk that his inihibitions are let loose, who has most probably forgotten about me sitting at home alone in the dark just waiting for him to come home to me. and who, after touching and hugging them, comes home and puts his arms around me and then falls into a peaceful slumber! i cant bear thinking about that! who is this man? who is this stranger? i don't know this person at all.

to give him credit, i believe he hasnt going any further than that, and he said that he rejected the advances of the girls in the cheaper places at joo chiat, when he had gone there once, and they really tried to persuade him to check into a hotel with them. he resisted, of course, and i'd really like to give him this trust.

i'd always prided myself on having a husband who was so morally upright, and had such a strong sense of integrity, wouldn't even touch another woman. i thought he was one in a million and i'd found him, and how lucky i was. unfortunately, my blissful bubble has popped, and popped so badly that i'm feeling the pain and have the scars from it. so he wasn;t special after all, he;s just like many other men out there.

the space in his arms that i thought he only reserved for me had been given also to other women, and i can no longer feel the sense of security and comfort when i'm there anymore. it doesnt belong to me and me alone anymore. the hands that i thought would only land on me and me alone has also been given to other women, and i tried to recapture the warmth that could easily warm my cold hands in the past, but its gone cold. how long would it take before i ccan forgive and forget all these and feel safe and secure in his arms, his hands again? everything has been irreparably changed, and i dont think i can return to the person who trusted so blindly, loved so purely and innocently, and felt so safe and secure that i was before this. was used to be my one in a million, but now... perhaps one in a thousand? i still trust and believe he wouldn't physically cheat on me, but if he does, then my life would be truly over.

i told it it was going to be difficult for me when he goes out, and he says he understands and asked me what can he do. and i asked myself that. the truth is - nothing can be done. i'm fighting my own demons, what he has done is already over and done with. as for what he would do in future, i don't know. he cant avoid going to such places, and he wont stop seeing HER, and i'm not going to demand that he stop anyway. but each time it going to be another painful stab in my already badly wounded heart and soul. how am i going to live the rest of my live like this?

i put myself in his arms, i held his hands, trying to hold on to the very same feelings that brought me so much happiness, joy and love and peace in the past decade. it feels different now, but the very essence is still there. and i hope i can try to recapture everything before all these ugliness marrs it forever. i still believe in our love for each other, and that is the only chip i have left in this gamble. i'm once again putting everything that i have, that i am into this last bet. i cant afford to lose. i hope i'm strong enough to weather this period through and emerge the winner in this gamble for my life and the husband i knew before. if i lose, then i'll walk away knowing i tried my best. how can anyone not try her best for someone she loves more than anything, more than life itself?
 
Stardust,

Hope to share this quote from my friend:
"When everything you hear on the street seemed to reverberate your feelings - that is the power of mood"

Please do not let yourself fall into the spiral of negative thinking.

You may want to free your mind by occupying yourself with new hobbies, or spending more time with your parents and friends. You need to save yourself first before you can be at your best in the marriage. Take care.
 
stardust, pls dun try to deal with this alone...

if u need a listening ear or someone to talk to, remember there is help available out there...

call: Samaritans of Singapore (SOS) @1800-221 4444 (24hrs helpline)

take care and be strong ok?
 
stardust... i'm sorry to hear all these from u.. like u, i had faced the same. he flirts with women at ktv and pub during client entertainment, calling each other hubby and wife in their country language etc and reason is out of playfulness

it was not the first time he was caught in such act. many different women will sms him and he disliked me to read his sms and his email. but if not because of this, i wonder how long he will keep it from me, and continue this wrong path. i have forgave him a few times and he promised he will never get involve with any woman but lie to me again and again.

at that time, im facing with threaten miscarriage when matter finally blew up. i was facing the miscarriage alone and he continued his usual old words 'i don't know her, don't know why she msg me, i can't remember, maybe she's the women in the past' etc etc. I was hoping he will tell me the truth when i qns him, but no. he will only admit when i show him all the proof i have. he flirts for a year, and i don't know why he still bother to have child with me. This pregnancy was through ivf and i can't accept that i suffered under needles, infection, miscarriage and bleeding, and on his part, he was flirting away, happily??

He insisted no physical betray, and i try to trust him on this. but emotion betray is something i can't accept too..

He will also get his brother to tell lie, because at that time, i was suspicious why he must get a webcam. he said his brother bought it for him. at that time, i did check with his brother, and he said yes.. but in actual fact, he uses webcam, download QQ to communicate with the women.

This matter went up to his parent. during courtship, he told me he was angry with his dad because his mum suspected his dad was having an affair and even try to follow him to find out the truth, but nothing out from it. he was upset seeing his mum sad. And now, he choose to do the same to his wife. when his parent knew abt it, his parent told me firmly that he will reprimand him but what i know is that the tone they used is worrying of offending his son for saying him!

I hope u can be strong now for the baby in u.. don't go deeper in depression as your baby needs u. if you need listening ear, PM me
 
green,
i agree with your friend about the quote. right now nothing that i hear seems like a happpy sound, except watching my son play and listening to his voice. then i feel a contentment that is so strong that i feel the strength enough to carry on.

i know i have to start working on myself, because for whatever my husband says, it wouldnt work if my mind was closed. whenever he's not around with me, i feel so depressed and low, but yet i dont want him to feel obligated to stay with me if he wants to go out.i want him to stay because he WANTS to, unfortunately his job takes precedence.

junkie,
thanks for number given. if i find that i cannot cope alone, i'll put a call in. but i dont think i have the energy nor the will to repeat this whole story again. its too long, too complex, too complicated with so many mysteries and deceit.

wannababies,
i'm so sorry to hear your troubles, after all that you've gone through with conceiving.i hope you and your child are well. same as you, whan i found out a lie, i just wanted to give him a chance to tell me the truth, but even after asking him about it, he still carried on lying and that was what i couldnt accept and couldnt take. does he see me as stupid?

same as you, i cannot take emotional betray, maybe that's why i'm taking so long and finding it so hard to come to terms with this.
he says he loves me so much, but when he gets drunk and touches them, when he lies to me and asked her out even after promising to stop contacting her, does he even think of me at all?

i wish he'd stop all contacts with her, even if he was telling the truth, and they're just friends, but i cannot accept having her in his life at all. i know i may sound extreme, and i find it a pity because i might have liked her and accepted her as his friend, if only he didn't lie to me and made it seem that they have more going between them than just purely friendship.

i dont even dare to ask him to promise me that he'll stop contactng her or anything now, because i'm afraid he will break his promise like he lied about promising not to respond to her smses just barely a month ago, and then i find out they've been going out til the wee hours behind my back. if i discover another lie, be it well meaning or not, i think i want to leave. but when i leave, it'll be leaving this stranger who is so deceitful, who drinks and touches and hugs other women, who lies and and treats me as though i'm dumb.

but what i cannot bear leaving is the man i love so deeply and respect so much for his strong sense of integrity, responsibility, commitment, determination and who provides me with such a strong sense of love and security that i know i can garner strength and support from no matter what happens in our future together.

is he still there? can i recapture my blissful marriage again?
i miss my husband so much, where has he gone to?
 
stardust - I have not wanting to pen down alot of comments as many in here are already doing so.....

I only have a feeling... U may be suffering from Pre-Natal-Blue..

Alot of people have put in entries which may or may not be "good"... As mentioned by U, "it wouldnt work if my mind was closed", which is in Actual Fact...

Is getting serious which is not good for U and your baby...

Though here may be a good place for U to release your feeling, U have to seek professional help to get U out of this "hole"....

Take care...
 
Stardust

You are currently pregnant- so your emotions may not be very stable...do not let your imagination go into overdrive...or you can be come depressed even further...

As much as it is very difficult- focus on getting a healthy baby out into this world, then looking after it well...

Being disillusioned with your hubby at this point does not do you any good...

As for all men- never say you have married the dream man and he will never ever change...because influences are always out there everyday in their work life...what you can do is to keep a very healthy communication relationship with your hubby- so you remain a strong influence in his life...and also know what you are willing to live with (or not) if he changes in the future...
 
small love,

I found that my husband is cheating on me despite all the trust that I gave him. He also received sms from pimps and he even has accounts to escort sites etc. I found out about the sms by accident. He is very protective of his phone and will carry it around even when he sleeps.

I would like to hire PI to gather the evidence. Is it possible for me to PM you to get the contacts for the PI? I know the truth hurts but I need to know. I need a closure and wants to move on.
 


hi iris and fairyprincess,
yes, i am indeed afraid it might escalate into a full blown depression, and i'm trying to prevent it by trying my best not to be alone by myself as much as possible. thank you so much for all your concern, i'll definitely approach professional help should i feel unable to cope further. i just hope this is indeed the end of all the lies that he had ever told me.

'disillusioned', yes, thats the very word that so effectively describes what i'm feeling now. as for what i'm willing to live with or not, frankly speaking, i dont know right now. i'm still in a phase where i'm swirling around in a little pool, trying to pull myself out so that i can gain a better perspective on everything. i'm too involved to see clearly now.

no one knows what's going on in my life, i dont think even my hubby knows exactly what i'm going through. he doesnt speak much of it anymore, either because he's afraid of opening the can of worms again, or he thinks the phase is over and i can manage my emotions on my own, or, i hope this one is true, that he has a clear conscience and he sees no need to explain himself further. i'm keen to believe the third.

i'm not too good at expressing myself verbally, i get too emotionally involved and then i wouldnt be able to find the right words to say. but this forum has indeed been good for me. it allowed me to express my deepest fears and feelings without me having to say a single word. and if he gets to read whatever i've posted one day, i hope he can understand how deeply he is loved, and how deeply i was hurt.

i've never imagined the man i chose to protect me for life would be the one who chose to hurt me so badly. how long is it going to take for me to recover completely, i dont know, but life has to go on, and for now, i only have myself to rely on to get through this time.

cappucino,
i hope you can get the closure you need soon.
 
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