Car

oceandeep

Member
know that this is the wrong place to start this thread but as there are some drivers here, like to seek their advice. pls pardon me.

assume i put aside,
$50k for downpayment
$1 to 1.5k monthly
5-7 years loan repayment period
work in cbd

which car should/can i get?
better to get 1st or 2nd hand car?

thanks!
 


If u can afford it, of cuz a first hand car is much better choice. cuz u nvr know wat problem the 2nd hand car used to have.. safer choice.. =)
 
these days coe is low no point buying second hand car which might cause u to spend even more money , time and effort in bring them into the workshops to repair in future
 
1st impt question... How long do u intend to own THIS car?

from experience, pple change cars every 2-3yrs, especially younger chaps... IF u are someone who will upgrade or change cars - DUN buy new cars now. for experienced owners, low coe is actually Negative when u sell your car, buying car u only get a few thousands off.

i have seen many pple bleed buying cars that are seemingly cheap but are so plentiful that u hardly have a decent resale when u intend to sell...

in current climate - buy 2nd hand Luxury cars... look at the entry level Mercs/BMW... 3-4yrs old is fine becos there's sufficient support from local workshops. a 4yr-old BMW 318 u can squeeze for 52-54k, a Merc C180/200 u can squeeze for 70k... bot hwill have OMV of 34-44k so that means u get back around 20k when u scrap the car... their COEs are worth 18-28k which u can also get back.

before buying a car, go to a reputable assessment centre to run thru the whole car. u might have to spend an initial 2k to get the car up to scratch but thereafter u can enjoy the car liao...

let's put it this way... it's more common to see 20yrs old mercs/bmws than jap cars... and cars are built to last longer tha nthe 10yrs of coe we implemented in our country.

the spread between cars are very close now... ie for 3k u get a Lancer, 3.5k u get a Honda Fit, for 4k u get a Corolla, 4.5k u get a Civic, 5.5k u get most jap cars... move to 6k and u get an entry-level BMW, 6.5-7k u get a merc. 9k gets u an older E-Class, 10,5k gets u the new C200 or E200 and the list goes on... last time used to be 5-8k difference At Least.

one of the most important criteria for me is Safety... and by safety i dun mean volvo... i mean good safety ratings... this is something u might take into consideration. i have seen a japanese hatchback end up only 1.5m in length after a collision... think abt it.
 
with 50k, why do u want to take a 5-7 yr loan?

A car is a car for me. Of cos, Safety is mandatory. So, those with less than 3 stars are not in consideration. If you are looking for something practical, with your budget, there is no need for a loan. why pay the interest?

But, if the car is more than just convenience and transport but a status, then its a diff story altogether.
 
with 50K i dun think u need to take 5-7 yrs loan at all... at most 3 years... but going in and out of CBD is VERY EX... u sure u wan to drive?
 
with $50k and a 5-year loan at $750/month gives you a $90-100k budget for the car. assuming you are single and typically singaporean, you want something to impress the chicks. a 2-4 year old bimmer 3 series perhaps?
 
i am rather keen on luxury cars (audi/lexus/bmw?) but dont wish to get carried away as well. so would like to know what cars i should look at given this budget. (this budget is already based on conservative est. could actually come up with more.)
for those cars you have recommended, how much do they cost now (1st hand vs 2nd hand)?
thanks all.
 
milo not necesarily status... chances are that u will lose the same amount if u sell in another 3yrs... between let's say a honda civic and a bmw 318.

with depreciation depressed and differentials between a bmw and honda much closer than last time... this is becos when the mkt recovers, the depreciation gap will widen again. this is almost similar to selling your HDB at the highest point to buy a condo at the lowest point.

Status is the last thing from my mind cos u dun need a car for that and certainly not in this economy. to most, it seems extravagant to pay 50k for a patek philippe watch, but if i tell u that it'll be worth 70k in another 3yrs, then u realise that it's 40% returns for 3yrs... not many investments with such returns. so sorta going by this... meaning your car's depreciation increases from let's say 6.5k/yr to 8k/yr... 'gaining' u 1.5k. overall u dun make money from the car, but your increased depreciation will be sort of like a rebate to u, giving u a Civic depreciation for the 3yrs of ownership. get wat i mean?
 
actually, 2nd hand car can be quite worth also now with new car prices so low. most 2nd hand cars are priced at slightly higher than paper value.

A 2 year old bmw 318i can be easily had for 80k. So the first owner already absorbed 30-40k for the first 2 years depreciation...

But, 2nd hand car the loan interest rate is usually higher unless you're taking a small loan. Then there is also risk of something wrong with the car too.

Pros and Cons...
 
yup... a 1yr old Audi A4 (just prior to current generation) can be had for like 83k (was 122k), an IS250 for 90k (was 118k)... and the mkt has over 100 2nd hand BMW 320i's.... so u decide how much u wanna pay.

anyway u dun need to always take a car loan, u can always take a personal loan with banks for 12-24mths periods at rather low interest rates instead of the typical car loans...
 
if u work in CBD area, why even bother to drive?

u can save tonnes of $$$ by taking public transport...trust me. If my work doesn't require me to own a car, I would gladly SELL it off.
 
it's alot more liberating in life to earn way beyond your preferred expenditure...

than to live within your means most of your lifetime...
 
it is not all that uncommon to drive to work in cbd. many do because they don't share your enthusiasm for public transportation. nor do they have the same priority as you when it comes to spending *their* money.

lets stay with the topic shall we?
 
hehe, short n sharp as usual...

just 1 last bit... i used to wait 3-4 MRT carriages before i finally get my ride without the crowd... never felt so little control over my time... pain getting a cab after work as well...
 
Prefer private transport over public transport anytime. But also develop headache when seemingly waiting forever for a parking lot especially when pressed for time.
 
hi powder, if u do the math on all the expenses, it doesn't add up. Honda Civic and BMW road tax, insurance etc are all different.

And I for one will avoid cars that attract criminal attention. That's important for trips into Msia.
 
criminal attention m'sia would be my lexus liao... hot hot... body alone is worth 24-28k...

Civic has 1.3, 1.8 and 2.0. i was talking abt the BMW318... engine capacity is 1995cc - road tax $1,206. Honda Civic 2.0 1998cc - road tax $1,210, 1.8 road tax $976, of cos hybrid 1.3 road tax $590.

my Merc's road tax is $972 only, insurance 2k before discount, after dicount abt 1.2k. u know the E200, C200, C180 all have the same road tax? they are all the same 1.8litre 1796cc engines...
 
given your inputs, 2nd hand entry-level luxury cars are ard $80-100k, and 1st hand abt $30-40k more?
and it's better to look at cars which are 3years old and below? and mileage less than 15,000 km/per year?
any other impt factors to take note?
thanks.
 
mileage-wise anything less or abt 17k a year is ok. alot of pple go for low mileage becos they think it's better, and associate wear and tear to just Utilisation alone, forgetting the time-factor, so it's not necessarily tat crucial...

just think of a horse that doesn't get to run too often and remains in the stable... it doesn't necessarily mean this horse will run better. and also u notice alot of these adverts like to say 'lady driver' etc... trying to imply that the car is very soft-footed BUT (and i'm saying this from experience) u have to drive your car Hard abit more frequently if u want performance to stay optimum.

Actually the bigger reason for low mileage is for exporting purposes... when u wanna sell your car overseas to export markets. a few other factors will come into play as well, like the number of airbags etc...

Yearly depreciation - most pple take at the point of purchase. depending on the kind of car u looking at, some cars have higher body value, are more sort after overseas etc... giving it an extra value that Will reduce your depreciation... particularly the rarer cars. 1 of my fren lost 26k to drive a lambo for 1yr, whilst another lost 60k to drive a lexus in 1.5yrs... of cos 1 of them have higher servicing. u gotta be rather interested in car prices (like how we look at property) to monitor and know the breakdowns...

to be honest, cars and houses are our 2 biggest purchases in spore, but u'll be surprised how little thought pple give to them and rely heavily on hearsay + poor advice.
 
Powder, maybe a stupid question, what is the highest range of cars that you normally see in HDB carpark.
Just to blend in, what would be the most high end that can be parked without generating too much envy.

DN
 
i guess just no ferraris or lambo... merc, bms n audi, jaguar pretty common leh... think as long as can park can liao. in terms of envy there's just 1 basic rule... only the inside of the car belongs to us, the outside is public property... so scratches and stuff are not to be unexpected
 
hi powder.

I have very few scratches on my 3 yr old Yaris.

I believe, parking well within the lots and owning a non flashy car helps avoid alot of such scratches.

My mum is too lazy to park her car properly. Every car she drove was scratched so badly. Somemore, nothing flashy on the cars : vios, astra, lancer, laser.

Back on the road tax, FC etc. Come on loh, u r telling me a Japaneses car is probably consuming petrol like a BMW? No right? I'm talking about adding all the expenses together.

For me, no point to get anything more than 1.6litre in sgp. Why do we need so much horse power consuming more petrol for?
 
about the soft footed part on lady drivers. I agree. It does more harm than good for the engines. We need to rev is up and vary the drive to keep the engineer performance optimum.
 
actually Milo,

several nissans like the sunny, most hyundais, mistubishi etc consume as much if not more... for some strange reason, most pple think that jap cars consume less... only a few known jap cars offer pretty good FC... fit, wish, corolla... else that does not make jap cars have a better FC.

on mercs/bmw, it really depends on the model of the car... obviously those made for sporty-drives and off-road have high FC, as well as those higher CC cars. and also dependent on drivers (i'm very heavy-footed).

in terms of overall, actually u'll be surprised how much hearsay has affected the decision-making of sporeans when coming to car-purchases... alot of pple are still basing their car-beliefs on facts from yesteryears...

as for 1.6, well if u even get caught in situations when u need instant power to avoid disastrous situations, it might be the last thought u have... my thoughts are different... i'd rather drive a car that is more powerful than the average cars in spore so that i will always have a better response time than them. u may only need it Once in your life, but that one time could mean your Life itself... tat's why my car purchases has always been cars that have a better performance than the average 1.6 in spore.
 
hi bro,
yes I would agree that no all budget cars are low FC. Likewise, not a luxury cars are high FC. But, BMW isn't one of them right?

I would say driving a car that cannot rev up is a nightmare. But, a Getz, Vios or Jazz probably get you quite decent pick up already frankly.

I'm pretty heavy footed myself. But FC on my Yaris is at least 11km/l. My bro, a relatively snail driver was getting similar FC on his Nissan Sunny. Now that he switched to a Toyota too, he is getting 15km/l.

When we measure FC, the driving style should remain constant cos the driver is the same. Unless his head swells and needs to drive alot harder on a Sub than a Nissan.
 
for bmw u can check with sm on his... previously when i was sharing cars with a couple of frens, the 318, 320 and 520 wasn't that bad... still manage around 9.5-10.5km/ltr, the 325 of cos was lower. my fren's current 325 is giving him abt 10.5km/ltr... so unless the extra 1-2km makes alot of difference, i'd think is negligible. my c-class merc is currently doing 10.5-11km... previously my colt gave me 8.5, my sonata gave me 6.5... my alfa gave me 8.5... my fren's renault cabrio gave him 15... so it really does vary...

but to be honest, FC is the least impt criteria for me...
 
I don't know why Singaporeans like to buy new car.. actually quite stupid leh..

1st year depreciation is the most.

I have been driving for more than 20 years - so far only own 1 brand new car.. which I sold after 2 years.

I wouldn't recommend continental car.. for the simple reason that you would fall in love with them and would refuse to change. ha ha

I have been driving BMW for past 10 years - probably being spoilt by it.. I don't think I can ever drive a Japanese car - the feel and handling is just not there.. nothing to do with luxury or branding.

As for maintenance, again a myth. BMW is very maintenable.. in fact it is cheaper to maintain a BMW.

My car (BMW 520) only need servicing every 25 KM .. that is to me 18 months. Each time I spend about $300 to $400.. My only luxury is my tyre - just because I changed to R18/235 (which is rather expensive) else if you stick with 16 inch rim/tyres.. quite affordable

And FC, again. it is a 2.2 litre car but can have 9 to 10 km/ltr.. sometimes over 10 km/ltr.. And you talk about driving style.. ha ha.. my friends said I am a bully on the road.

When I got my BM a couple years ago, it was less than 1 year old.. and it got $40K off the price of a new car.. a steal really.. and that is why after so many years.. I am still reluctant to change my car.. By the way OMV of my car is 57K.

Good continental cars like BM, Mercs.. they are not for everybody.. If you don't like driving for example, then any car will do. I happen to love driving a lot .. that is why I prefer driver-centric cars like BM
 
tat's exactly it... a myth... but i still face the hearsay that pple's parents, uncles and grandparents feed them...

other than better FC becos it's generally lighter, pple seem to forget that technology actually improved over the years... i guess pple associate the conti brand with bigger cc cars therefore FC is higher, else i think give or take 1-2km less is fine between same engines.
 
exactly, a car with FC lesser to 10km/l is poor imho. I don't see why FC can be less impt because it directly means higher budget. Mind you, its at least 11km/l. That the worst case for me mostly, I'm still getting better FC than the avg of a BMW. That counts for something.

So, when we talk about expenses of owning a car. All these add up. To be fair, if someone can own a luxury car already, then it make sense that FC isn't going to matter that much. To compare owning a budget low FC car vs a BMW citing that depreciation is not so different is simply ignoring alot of other stuffs.

Assuming u would drive avg of 450km per week. That will be 234000km in 10 yrs.
With a car with 13km/l, it consume 18k litres.
With a car with 9km/l, it consume 26k litres.

And, for higher performance car, u need a higher octane petrol to benefit from its performance and protect from the knocking. Every litre will cost probably 12 cents more for 98 vs 92 and 30 cents when compared with premium petrol like V Power.

So, calculation basing on current petrol prices.
92 Octane petrol at $1.558
98 Octane petrol at $1.67
Premium petrol at $1.849

13km/l FC car :-
18k litres x $1.558 = $28k

9km/l FC car :-
26k litres x $1.67 = $43.4k
26k litres x $1.849 = $48k

Therefore, with the level of usage, in 10 yrs, we expect $15-20k more expenses on a poor FC car.
For me, that's at least 30-40% of the car price of a low FC budget car. 10 yrs roadtax is another $3k diff from 1.5 vs 2.0 litre. The insurance again. Though a few hundred, would add up to thousands again in 10yrs.

The figures don't lie. And sm, u were talking about 40k off the price of new one for your BMW. But, my car only cost me $53k with a $16k OMV. Its a completely apple and orange comparison. I'm not convinced.
 
Powder,

When I say FC is at least 11km/l, that is much closer to the worst case for my car.

On the avg, its around 11.5 - 12.5km/l despite heavy footing. 2km / l makes alot of diff in the long run. Driving is a long term lifestyle change. For sure, we need to look long term and work out the math. At least for me. Which is why I spoke to u about getting a hybrid for my next car previously in another car.
 
milo,

yo.. i am not convincing you to drive a continental car like BM or mercs.

Naturally, if you are buying a more expensive car - everything else will go up .. as you say, road tax, insurance, fuel.. etc etc etc..

And yes apple & orange.. you can compare a 1.5/1.6l Jap car with a continental 2l+ car.. the driving and handling is totally different..

As for the fuel, no u don't need 98 octane. 92 will do. with 10km/l.. for 10 years that would be about 36K (using 92 octane) 8K more than your typical jap car.. and not 15k to 20K as you have mentioned.

8K out of 60K car is 13.3%.. but out of a 150K is only 5.3%.. so if i can afford a 150K car, FC increase is not that significant..
 
wah milo, u clock 450km a week?

anyway if u're arguing from FC point of view then it's gonna be hard to match, i'm just saying that the FC difference of 1-2km/ltr isn't tat much of a significance, particularly if u're getting much better performance. if u're looking at pure budget then sure, get the 1.5-1.6... my main consideration is always Safety n Performance, FC comes in last. it's just too negligible to be considered... if it's of the utmost importance, then a Hybrid would suit the job best.

so far i've never used 98ron, it's been either 92 and now 95. most car manuals have a recommended octane level...

am not here to convince u, from offset i'm just saying that the spread between luxury sedans and regular jap carr are much closer... for an extra $100-200 a month u can have a 2nd hand BM instead of a Civic just on depreciation. FC-wise the difference isn't that much unless $100 is $100 more on etrol is alot.

it's true it adds up, i just feel it's impt to let pple know that they can have an option to step-up in terms of today's car-ownership opportunities. and that when the market recovers and the spread widens again, they might actually have a lower depreciation than initially expected.

Pls note i am also not saying which car is better than the other, it's just IF u've always fancied owning 1 in your lifetime, then there's no better time.
 
powder, actually, I clock around 400km weekly. Requiring just one top up of 30+ litres.

And I'm sure there are those that clock more than that.

both, yes, if we talk about someone well affording a 150k car, "To be fair, if someone can own a luxury car already, then it make sense that FC isn't going to matter that much." No doubt about that one.

But, I'm concerned with chaps that only look at car pricing & depreciation and start thinking, maybe they should get something bigger. My advise for car buyers, unless u can really afford a luxury car, no point getting a cheap big car. When on a budget, one needs to look at every expense vs his/her lifestyle to the best fit.

Anyway, the point on getting 2nd hand is a astute one. Agree with u both on that.
 
oceandeep,

there are many around.. depending on the brand. The major car mart would have them all.

but for 2nd hard I would always advise to take your time.. and be in the market.. so that when a good deal comes along, you know it and take it from there.

If you are in a hurry to get a car, most likely you wouldn't have the luxury of time to shop around.
 
Aiyo, with this amount of money, think at most can buy cherry QQ(2nd hand somemore)

GO earn more money and come back to have more choice.
 

just looking around - what sort of car would be suitable if i can set aside $40K for downpayment, there after, about $500 per month for everything else?

errr.. would it be none? haha..

just looking for those types that look very small from outside, but spacious when inside the car.
About 1.3CC would be enough i think.

any ideas? Honda fit? Suzuki swift?
 

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