Where is my happily ever after?
- Thread starter tiredsally
- Start date
Keke...I am excited because they are not doing what they are paid to do previously mah...so happy that there is a change now albeit that is their job because we don't have much choice on who should be the gov...atleast now...its good tht they wake up their idea...
TG resident
Whether I am naïve or you are cynical, only time will tell but we must give them the benefit of doubt...but youur area confirm contest in the next election lar...Reform party has stake their claim and MM is likely not contesting in next round...cheer up!
TG resident
Whether I am naïve or you are cynical, only time will tell but we must give them the benefit of doubt...but youur area confirm contest in the next election lar...Reform party has stake their claim and MM is likely not contesting in next round...cheer up!
miloice
Well-Known Member
lolz.
to me... its all within their well planned script all these while.
recall what I said on May 10, 2011 - 5:37pm and 6:15pm.
"Notice the SUDDEN emphasis on the youth... TPL for sure isn't the objective for the PAP. There is more to come."
"I repeat, out of the sudden, there is a big emphasis on the youth. We are aware that our MM is a very wise man. He surely would have seen it. Somehow, there seems more than meets the eye. To me, its all within their plan still. GY is a calculated risk they are willing to take and forgo. Making citizens feel the lost. "
akan datang
to me... its all within their well planned script all these while.
recall what I said on May 10, 2011 - 5:37pm and 6:15pm.
"Notice the SUDDEN emphasis on the youth... TPL for sure isn't the objective for the PAP. There is more to come."
"I repeat, out of the sudden, there is a big emphasis on the youth. We are aware that our MM is a very wise man. He surely would have seen it. Somehow, there seems more than meets the eye. To me, its all within their plan still. GY is a calculated risk they are willing to take and forgo. Making citizens feel the lost. "
akan datang
miloice
Well-Known Member
Anyway, my coy HR is pretty concerned with the policies to come.... a min wage will mean significant impact to OPex.
Almost all engineers they employed over the past 2 yrs are FT fresh grads. No recruitment drive were done at our local uni. HR went direct to regional universities for their recruitment. Hearing it 1st hand from the bosses. Their perception of our local grads. Expensive, high expectations and difficult to attract nor retain. ROI is low to recruit from local uni. You get a whole lot of crap with only a few good ones. So, they don't run any recruitment locally at all.
The gen Y chaps don't want to work OT and expect well define job scope. I recalled when my team was setup, everyone was siaming the easy projects and fighting to do challenging ones. I was assigned to 1st project without proper training whatsoever, we just swam our way out. People were resourceful and find our own ways to seek help and mentors in work. Now, they demand complete training before projects, decline to take up complex projects, wanting to do simple mandane stuffs that needs no OT. There is no sense of urgency, they don't want to know its biz impact and urgency. They just want to go home on time regardless. These are the kind of grads we are getting locally now.
Almost all engineers they employed over the past 2 yrs are FT fresh grads. No recruitment drive were done at our local uni. HR went direct to regional universities for their recruitment. Hearing it 1st hand from the bosses. Their perception of our local grads. Expensive, high expectations and difficult to attract nor retain. ROI is low to recruit from local uni. You get a whole lot of crap with only a few good ones. So, they don't run any recruitment locally at all.
The gen Y chaps don't want to work OT and expect well define job scope. I recalled when my team was setup, everyone was siaming the easy projects and fighting to do challenging ones. I was assigned to 1st project without proper training whatsoever, we just swam our way out. People were resourceful and find our own ways to seek help and mentors in work. Now, they demand complete training before projects, decline to take up complex projects, wanting to do simple mandane stuffs that needs no OT. There is no sense of urgency, they don't want to know its biz impact and urgency. They just want to go home on time regardless. These are the kind of grads we are getting locally now.
miloice
Well-Known Member
powder, to add to your initial post...
here's another few examples how lack of sincerity and off reality our leaders can be.
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/mountbatten-mp-conducts-bus-spot-checks-134913629.html
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/woodlands-residents-angry-over-water-tank-incident-072312692.html#mwpphu-container
The $10 off utilities bill is the most insulting and idiotic thing. It reflects a lack of basic empathy and respect for those affected. Its better off if those involved apologize personally one on one to each affected family and offering their 'gifts' on a personal level to show more sincerity in accepting their mistakes. No doubt, it will be a lot of additional workload for them. Too bad, when shit happens, we need to attend to the customers to regain the confidence.
here's another few examples how lack of sincerity and off reality our leaders can be.
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/mountbatten-mp-conducts-bus-spot-checks-134913629.html
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/woodlands-residents-angry-over-water-tank-incident-072312692.html#mwpphu-container
The $10 off utilities bill is the most insulting and idiotic thing. It reflects a lack of basic empathy and respect for those affected. Its better off if those involved apologize personally one on one to each affected family and offering their 'gifts' on a personal level to show more sincerity in accepting their mistakes. No doubt, it will be a lot of additional workload for them. Too bad, when shit happens, we need to attend to the customers to regain the confidence.
tomasulu
Member
i am fking tired of hearing locals badmouthing local employees. trust me, you have prima donnas everywhere, not just singapore.
my experience tells me that local employees are typically more productive than the majority of foreign talents. yes hardworking even. your HR's misguided thinking is one reason why there is a hallowing out of a local middle-level management. if you don't hire local junior engineers, you are not going to have middle level or senior level engineers and managers. students will then decide that engineering has no future and they'll depart quickly from related fields of study. and the vicious cycle self fulfills itself.
think about this, it is hard to get into a local u. i am quite sure even the local u rejects did better (academically) than the foreign grads that are hired because supposedly we don't have enough! short of their tier one uni, a chinese, filipino or indian uni degree is next to worthless. but we hire them by the ship load while we denied poly and JCs students who are perfectly capable of a uni education a shot at uni education.
yes it may be cheaper in the short term to hire foreign workers. but your productivity will suffer - just look at the building and construction industry - and you create lorry load of unintended social problems. thankfully the ballot box spurs a rethink and it can't come early enough.
my experience tells me that local employees are typically more productive than the majority of foreign talents. yes hardworking even. your HR's misguided thinking is one reason why there is a hallowing out of a local middle-level management. if you don't hire local junior engineers, you are not going to have middle level or senior level engineers and managers. students will then decide that engineering has no future and they'll depart quickly from related fields of study. and the vicious cycle self fulfills itself.
think about this, it is hard to get into a local u. i am quite sure even the local u rejects did better (academically) than the foreign grads that are hired because supposedly we don't have enough! short of their tier one uni, a chinese, filipino or indian uni degree is next to worthless. but we hire them by the ship load while we denied poly and JCs students who are perfectly capable of a uni education a shot at uni education.
yes it may be cheaper in the short term to hire foreign workers. but your productivity will suffer - just look at the building and construction industry - and you create lorry load of unintended social problems. thankfully the ballot box spurs a rethink and it can't come early enough.
min wage is a good thing, but only applied to certain industries where foreign labour is intensively used. on simple outlook, it'll provide a playing field where our local pple can look at these jobs, instead of not being able to compete becos it simply isn't suffice.
the problem is that if a job ie Janitor can have pple competing at $500 a month (from overseas), then local pple dun stand a chance. i also hope that a minimum wage can be applied to help our locals, i dun see it as helping them to earn more money, but i see it as protecting them against foreign compeition and unscrupulous employers.
for such policies, i do have faith in the gov to come up with something. my gripe has never been their policies, but their Willingness to come up with policies for our own pple.
the problem is that if a job ie Janitor can have pple competing at $500 a month (from overseas), then local pple dun stand a chance. i also hope that a minimum wage can be applied to help our locals, i dun see it as helping them to earn more money, but i see it as protecting them against foreign compeition and unscrupulous employers.
for such policies, i do have faith in the gov to come up with something. my gripe has never been their policies, but their Willingness to come up with policies for our own pple.
miloice
Well-Known Member
Outcast, I spoke against the RnD boss perception of Singaporeans. But frankly, there are 2 sides of the story. These are truly the feedback I'm given.
We do have quality locals. Never doubt it. However, we need to also accept the fact that we have black sheep that is spoiling our own market.
Funny you spoke of job scope. My own job scope is self created by challenging, networking, sourcing around and then requesting for it. I see my company HR doing a great job to recognize and retaining talents. What I don't agree is with their recruitment drive mainly overseas.
We do have quality locals. Never doubt it. However, we need to also accept the fact that we have black sheep that is spoiling our own market.
Funny you spoke of job scope. My own job scope is self created by challenging, networking, sourcing around and then requesting for it. I see my company HR doing a great job to recognize and retaining talents. What I don't agree is with their recruitment drive mainly overseas.
We should also raise the salary level for S and work pass holder to protect our middle income singaporean and make it mandatory for all employer to pay CPF contribution for their FW to level the competition...our male counterpart already have their reservist commitment...putting 2 equally qualified people together...would you choose someone that will disappear for 2 to 3 weeks a year for reservist or someone that has no such liability..
miloice
Well-Known Member
No, my jobscope is clearly defined. So, is my team's. But, on cost cutting pressure, its hard to justify for more head counts. I never see within the job scope and fight internally to contain and protect within the scopes. The way I see growth is to go beyond, only then, can we grow our team to replace us and we moving to bigger scope.
tomasulu
Member
all things being equal, employers will always prefer the lower cost option. lower cost means higher margin for the shareholders; it has nothing to do with scruple.
if you cut the flow of cheap foreign labor, the companies will have to adjust. i imagine in the short term by hiring locals and raising prices. then the market forces will come into play and companies will want compete on their productivity. or consumers will have to accept a lower degree of service from businesses, like self service in f&b establishments. some businesses will exit the local economy.
the bigger challenge is the low birthrate. the population is not replacing itself and the economy will shrink. new immigrants are needed. but it has to be discriminated and in a pace that the infrastructure can handle.
if you cut the flow of cheap foreign labor, the companies will have to adjust. i imagine in the short term by hiring locals and raising prices. then the market forces will come into play and companies will want compete on their productivity. or consumers will have to accept a lower degree of service from businesses, like self service in f&b establishments. some businesses will exit the local economy.
the bigger challenge is the low birthrate. the population is not replacing itself and the economy will shrink. new immigrants are needed. but it has to be discriminated and in a pace that the infrastructure can handle.
Yes, I do believe the gov is stuck between a rock and a wall....how to attract investment to create job for singaporean but not singapore overwhelm by foreigner...we can control and limited the flow but are we ready for a slower growth, fewer jobs and higher prices? There is no reason for businesses to come here if not for our open policies..can the SME/MNC survive with stricter foreign worker policies....singaporean job will be lost if they move away...there is no perfect solution...singaporean need to sacrifice some inorder to maintain our living standard...sometime we have it too good that we think others own us living and we are center of the world...if we are aware of what is happening around our region...we will discover that the world is changing at a dramatic speed and billions of people are eyeing our position and hoping to replace us....we will not cause a ripple in the world even we suddenly disappear from this world...sometime we need to wake up to the reality...
miloice
Well-Known Member
low birth rate is indeed an issue. But, let me remind you again. No normal population will double in 15 yrs. Even if every couple have 4 kids, its hard to reach that figure. The rate of population growth the currently policies are pushing for can never realistically be sustained by birth rates alone.
I agree that all employers will naturally prefer lower costs.
I agree that all employers will naturally prefer lower costs.
carlislesg
New Member
This kind of thing just annoys me. I hope everything will be better soon.
A lot of Singaporeans KPKB about foreign talents.. but in reality, today we need them. We will be much less competitive and higher cost if we don't have these foreign talent.
But of course we need to invest in infrastructure to cater to these foreign talents. I think we are doing pretty well in terms of infrastructure.. but of course in terms of housing, transport - it could be improved further..
There are many more people hungrier than us.. and they would happily swap with us .. But that is not to say the government cannot do more to help the citizens..
But we have to know that we need to have a open and competitive environment. Government's protection of citizens is not a viable solution in the long term.
But of course we need to invest in infrastructure to cater to these foreign talents. I think we are doing pretty well in terms of infrastructure.. but of course in terms of housing, transport - it could be improved further..
There are many more people hungrier than us.. and they would happily swap with us .. But that is not to say the government cannot do more to help the citizens..
But we have to know that we need to have a open and competitive environment. Government's protection of citizens is not a viable solution in the long term.
"In the long run, population expansion by FT is also not practical."
Why not practical if the infrastructure can cope with it?
Bear in mind, some of yesterday's FT is today's citizens. And some of today's FT is tomorrow's citizens..
We are largely an immigrant country. The majority of us (chinese) are from China. It is just the pace of absorption of the FT and the necessary infrastructure to cope with it..
Why not practical if the infrastructure can cope with it?
Bear in mind, some of yesterday's FT is today's citizens. And some of today's FT is tomorrow's citizens..
We are largely an immigrant country. The majority of us (chinese) are from China. It is just the pace of absorption of the FT and the necessary infrastructure to cope with it..
I buy the gov argument of FT help to bring in new investment and expand the pie for all singaporean including job...new investment will also brought along the chain of support industry and services needed...which translate to more job, consumption and better income/businesses..its better to have a job than jobless....its useless to have low living cost when you have no income....
It is good to help the more unfortunate.. but we must never go down the line of providing a safety net.
Health costs can be made cheaper for citizens with more subsidy.. but we have to subsidize the right people.. therefore the means testing is important - but that can be reviewed and improved upon.
Housing costs especially for 1st-time buyer should be subsidized even more..
Hand-outs should be given more to lower - income. It is ridiculous to give few hundreds of dollars to people who pay tens of thousands in income tax.
Health costs can be made cheaper for citizens with more subsidy.. but we have to subsidize the right people.. therefore the means testing is important - but that can be reviewed and improved upon.
Housing costs especially for 1st-time buyer should be subsidized even more..
Hand-outs should be given more to lower - income. It is ridiculous to give few hundreds of dollars to people who pay tens of thousands in income tax.
sgbabydoll
Active Member
"But of course we need to invest in infrastructure to cater to these foreign talents. I think we are doing pretty well in terms of infrastructure.. but of course in terms of housing, transport - it could be improved further.."
We need to find some places for them (foreign workers) to have sex. We need to acknowledge that they are also human and that they have sexual needs.
We need to find some places for them (foreign workers) to have sex. We need to acknowledge that they are also human and that they have sexual needs.
sgbabydoll
Active Member
I don't have the answer too and won't pretend that I have answers. For a start, hopefully they will stop using our HDB rooftop as dating place and take a bath using water from the water tank after they are done dating.
I think they need love and relationship too.
I think they need love and relationship too.
is there a cheaper place?
love and relationship? so you are referring to the competition they pose to our local guy/gal in finding a partner/lover?
keke...i saw quite a few couple of bangladesh man with indonesian gal.
haha...i see...all locks to the water tank are changed now at least at Woodlands.
love and relationship? so you are referring to the competition they pose to our local guy/gal in finding a partner/lover?
keke...i saw quite a few couple of bangladesh man with indonesian gal.
haha...i see...all locks to the water tank are changed now at least at Woodlands.
sgbabydoll
Active Member
I am not saying that foreign workers are no good nor downplaying their contribution to our economy. In fact, we don't treat them well. Singapore employers are world's no. 2 most demanding bosses, second only to Hong Kong employers. But we need to look deeper than the economic factor.
We shouldn't be surprised to see Bangladeshi cleaner pairing up with a Filipino or Indonesian maid. This is not competition to the local people. There is certainly social impact and we should see it coming when we started taking in large number of foreign workers to fill jobs.
We shouldn't be surprised to see Bangladeshi cleaner pairing up with a Filipino or Indonesian maid. This is not competition to the local people. There is certainly social impact and we should see it coming when we started taking in large number of foreign workers to fill jobs.
thing is, humans are our only resource, and from there we built the infrastructure to attract companies to invest and use our human resource... question is, are we keeping up to our end of the bargain in the supply of Qualified human resource for the industries in which we are built on?
our fathers' generation was mostly Industry, it was labour-intensive.
ours is between Industry and the internet age.
the younger generation today is nurtured alot less in industry, i wouldn't say we're spoilt, but If we as a country are not reproducing the replacements... the gov will have to do something, perhaps drastic measures at this point. there's always a breaking or tipping point... bringing in Foreigners could be the bridge we need for the crossover stage.
our forefathers weren't complaining as much, they were pretty much Foreigners themselves if not 2nd generation Immigrants. they just stuck on to bringing the bread home...
we have lost that strive...
our fathers' generation was mostly Industry, it was labour-intensive.
ours is between Industry and the internet age.
the younger generation today is nurtured alot less in industry, i wouldn't say we're spoilt, but If we as a country are not reproducing the replacements... the gov will have to do something, perhaps drastic measures at this point. there's always a breaking or tipping point... bringing in Foreigners could be the bridge we need for the crossover stage.
our forefathers weren't complaining as much, they were pretty much Foreigners themselves if not 2nd generation Immigrants. they just stuck on to bringing the bread home...
we have lost that strive...
As to social problems caused by FT, there will be.. but that is the price to be paid and we just need to manage it. We are still a society ruled by Law, and as long as we continue to keep everything in check.
Powder,
"we have lost that strive"
Precisely, bringing in FT will make us at least sit up - hopefully and strive instead of complaining that they are snatching away our rice bowls.
Powder,
"we have lost that strive"
Precisely, bringing in FT will make us at least sit up - hopefully and strive instead of complaining that they are snatching away our rice bowls.
it's innate in u to find sources to blame other than ourselves. without doubt, some have strived but still fall short, or as they say - falling thru the cracks... these are the ones who will need some help extended... singling them out will be tough to be honest.
then there are some who, like in school, pretend to be hardworking, pretend that they have done enough, and basically make alot of noise and hope to get away with it...
then there are some who, like in school, pretend to be hardworking, pretend that they have done enough, and basically make alot of noise and hope to get away with it...
miloice
Well-Known Member
sm, common sense will tell you we will reach saturation eventually. Hence, the long term plan has to be beyond population growth. FT is only fillers while we strategize on something more sustainable and permanent. Are you denialing that we will eventually reach that limit? What happen next?
There is a difference between will reach and has reached. So, I don't get your question. Base on what? I find it quite amusing.
If we are 10M in another say 10 yrs and 20M in 20 yrs. Don't tell me u think we would have the infrastructure to continue 100% population growth.
There is a difference between will reach and has reached. So, I don't get your question. Base on what? I find it quite amusing.
If we are 10M in another say 10 yrs and 20M in 20 yrs. Don't tell me u think we would have the infrastructure to continue 100% population growth.
miloice
Well-Known Member
There is a difference between rants and complains and actively improving. Critical to not just individually but as a society, we need to be open to more criticism. Look at the latest turn of events. Fellow colleague encouraging TPL to sue. It is not inline with a policy that is wanting to reach out to the people.
Reading some of the comments online is so funny. Politician is also human and will make mistakes. Pointing out mistakes isn't disrespectful. But to many, it seems as if their Gods and religion have been insulted. These are the irrational fans of various parties. Those are the rants that is polluting and blocking the feedback.
Reading some of the comments online is so funny. Politician is also human and will make mistakes. Pointing out mistakes isn't disrespectful. But to many, it seems as if their Gods and religion have been insulted. These are the irrational fans of various parties. Those are the rants that is polluting and blocking the feedback.
milo,
As a country with limited resources, yes surely we will reach saturation in terms of space eventually. But that is not to say that FTs are fillers. We always have been an immigrant country and will remain so.
But what is saturation? Are we saturated today? 10 years ago we talked about 3m or 4m population as ideal. Now we are talking about 6M or more. I won't pretend to know the answer.. nor the solution - but it is dangerous to think that remain where we are.. less the FTs and stop the flow now.. Without the influx of FTs, we would not be at a growth pace that we are today.
There could be more breakthroughs in planning, in being able to house more people per sq ft.. Or in enlarging the space by allowing free movement of people throughout the region. There are of course many challenges.. I am not saying population growth is a solution... but we need to maximum talents that are available to us - foreign or otherwise - in a limited space we have - for us to move forward.
As a country with limited resources, yes surely we will reach saturation in terms of space eventually. But that is not to say that FTs are fillers. We always have been an immigrant country and will remain so.
But what is saturation? Are we saturated today? 10 years ago we talked about 3m or 4m population as ideal. Now we are talking about 6M or more. I won't pretend to know the answer.. nor the solution - but it is dangerous to think that remain where we are.. less the FTs and stop the flow now.. Without the influx of FTs, we would not be at a growth pace that we are today.
There could be more breakthroughs in planning, in being able to house more people per sq ft.. Or in enlarging the space by allowing free movement of people throughout the region. There are of course many challenges.. I am not saying population growth is a solution... but we need to maximum talents that are available to us - foreign or otherwise - in a limited space we have - for us to move forward.
miloice
Well-Known Member
Pointing out that we need to look beyond population growth in the long run doesn't mean stopping the flow now. Moving forward, we need to explore new possibilities. None of us would doubt LKY vision has helped significantly to arrive at where we are today. If you looked at the 3 waves of major growth for sg, it came with the baby boom in the 50-60s, then women joining the workforce as equal counterparts and now FTs. Frankly, I don't see another wave of growth through increase in workforce possible in current context. I agree with you that we need breakthroughs in planning. This is what we will need to move forward to the next level. Like you, I don't have the solution either. But I know, we cannot just rely on FT for growth.
actually ready-made FTs are good for filling the gaps... we may need to fill the gaps for 2 generations... GenY and GenZ.
a major worry and problem is also that we'll have more Golden generation than the youngsters can manage... we may be like japan. and if u dun have enough pple contributing to the coffers... the bill will be huge for any government.
a major worry and problem is also that we'll have more Golden generation than the youngsters can manage... we may be like japan. and if u dun have enough pple contributing to the coffers... the bill will be huge for any government.
I don't think we are just relying on FT for growth - but there are really necessary for us now and in the future..
But the sentiments on the ground are that these FTs are evils that are taking away our rice-bowls. We really need to correct this type of thinking.. Quite a number of us would be much worse without the influx of these FTs.
We need them to help us and to push us to greater levels. They come with social cost but we have to find ways of minimizing the impact - rather than just wanting them off our back-yard. A lot of families want and need maids.. but they don't like to see maids gathering.. or even socializing . As a country, we need to grow-up a lot more in being more gracious and more accepting.
But the sentiments on the ground are that these FTs are evils that are taking away our rice-bowls. We really need to correct this type of thinking.. Quite a number of us would be much worse without the influx of these FTs.
We need them to help us and to push us to greater levels. They come with social cost but we have to find ways of minimizing the impact - rather than just wanting them off our back-yard. A lot of families want and need maids.. but they don't like to see maids gathering.. or even socializing . As a country, we need to grow-up a lot more in being more gracious and more accepting.
i think they're here to fill up the gaps, the taxes definitely helps and adds to our coffers. they fill up our pockets with rental yield, be it residential or office...
end of the day it depends on which side of the fence u're on... if u have made your money - u'll be happy they're around. if u're still struggling and looking for something or someone to blame - then look no further. if u have bought your house and renting out to expats - u're smiling. if u've not put a foot into property-ownership - u'll be bulking at the prices.
the only way to win, is to depend on oneself... everything else is a bonus.
end of the day it depends on which side of the fence u're on... if u have made your money - u'll be happy they're around. if u're still struggling and looking for something or someone to blame - then look no further. if u have bought your house and renting out to expats - u're smiling. if u've not put a foot into property-ownership - u'll be bulking at the prices.
the only way to win, is to depend on oneself... everything else is a bonus.
tomasulu
Member
lets try not to talk over one another. that's dumb and/or disingenuous.
many have concerns over migrant workers and foreign talents, but few oppose it absolutely. i suspect the majority understands the rationale and therefore the need to have new migrants or foreigners here to work. yes we buy the arguments why we need foreigners and immigrants - to compensate for our low birth rate and to support our industries - blah, blah. we don't need lectures about the if and why when our concerns are what and how many.
I don't know another country more welcoming of foreigners than singapore. from unskilled workers and domestic help to semi skilled to middle level managers to CxOs... we have them across all industries (except taxi driving, i wonder why). we have what, 40% foreigners and PRs in this country? putting aside the strain on infrastructure, i am not convinced a young nation like sg can absorb such a high level of extraneous cultures and still maintain a sense of community and national identity. and with so many unskilled workers, wages for the lower segments of society are stagnated. you'd be appalled if you know how low wages are at 30 percentile. but my biggest beef is with the indiscriminate import of mid-level managers into the country. ok so we need maids and nurses and construction workers and perhaps we need more CEOs than we have good people for. but do we really need to have entire IT departments staffed by foreigners?
i am glad the ballot box has prompted a rethink. i am just amused that supposedly educated folks here are not contented with the demise of such unwise policies and continue to be mouthpieces to its flawed thinking. please, that ship has sailed, go find another wrong tree.
many have concerns over migrant workers and foreign talents, but few oppose it absolutely. i suspect the majority understands the rationale and therefore the need to have new migrants or foreigners here to work. yes we buy the arguments why we need foreigners and immigrants - to compensate for our low birth rate and to support our industries - blah, blah. we don't need lectures about the if and why when our concerns are what and how many.
I don't know another country more welcoming of foreigners than singapore. from unskilled workers and domestic help to semi skilled to middle level managers to CxOs... we have them across all industries (except taxi driving, i wonder why). we have what, 40% foreigners and PRs in this country? putting aside the strain on infrastructure, i am not convinced a young nation like sg can absorb such a high level of extraneous cultures and still maintain a sense of community and national identity. and with so many unskilled workers, wages for the lower segments of society are stagnated. you'd be appalled if you know how low wages are at 30 percentile. but my biggest beef is with the indiscriminate import of mid-level managers into the country. ok so we need maids and nurses and construction workers and perhaps we need more CEOs than we have good people for. but do we really need to have entire IT departments staffed by foreigners?
i am glad the ballot box has prompted a rethink. i am just amused that supposedly educated folks here are not contented with the demise of such unwise policies and continue to be mouthpieces to its flawed thinking. please, that ship has sailed, go find another wrong tree.
well toma,
for mid management, wat i am facing is the unwillingness to settle for a lower starting salary and expecting high pay without proving oneself as much. if u read the resumes and cover letters of applicants, and u conduct interviews... the distinct difference i see is Hunger. for a profit-driven industry, hunger is more impt than grades for me.
as much as i have given priority to locals, i believe expectations are getting a wee bit harder to match.
for mid management, wat i am facing is the unwillingness to settle for a lower starting salary and expecting high pay without proving oneself as much. if u read the resumes and cover letters of applicants, and u conduct interviews... the distinct difference i see is Hunger. for a profit-driven industry, hunger is more impt than grades for me.
as much as i have given priority to locals, i believe expectations are getting a wee bit harder to match.
tomasulu,
Well I happen to run IT contracts ... and to tell you, it is almost absolutely impossible to employ local to fill the ranks. From the lower ranks of IT service desks to the project managers - it is increasingly difficult to fill the position with Singaporeans. Not to mention the IT specialists in between - the FTs come in more willing to work and more qualified.
For the few locals, after 2 or 3 years, they will be looking and fast promotion - when they have not proven themselves nor being able to put in the work.
For a typical contract 1 run, 80% to 90% are FTS - only the top account/project manager and team leaders are Singaporean. And now you know why IT departments are staff by FTs.
Even Mindef, who has strict requirements to employ only citizens find itself relaxing on some job roles - it is impossible to find enough citizens willing to work and able to work.
But I do not see it negatively. Singaporeans move up the chain - to get business and manage the business - and we in turn employ the best talent to help run the project. In this instance, most of these talents are FTs as Singaporeans are far and few in between. Even if they are, they are mostly the dead wood - not willing to work and only want to do the minimum but expect to be rewarded all the time.
That is the reality for you. The middle management FTs are very driven - they are value for money - the cannot be said for Singaporeans. The good Singaporeans would have already been promoted - and we give them the priority. Even FTs, we would not be able to deliver what we promise in our contracts at the cost that we can make a profit. If we employ all Singaporeans (assuming we can get) - we will not finish the project on time and we will be losing money - in a nutshell, these contracts will not come our way. In a way, these jobs will be moved elsewhere.
Well I happen to run IT contracts ... and to tell you, it is almost absolutely impossible to employ local to fill the ranks. From the lower ranks of IT service desks to the project managers - it is increasingly difficult to fill the position with Singaporeans. Not to mention the IT specialists in between - the FTs come in more willing to work and more qualified.
For the few locals, after 2 or 3 years, they will be looking and fast promotion - when they have not proven themselves nor being able to put in the work.
For a typical contract 1 run, 80% to 90% are FTS - only the top account/project manager and team leaders are Singaporean. And now you know why IT departments are staff by FTs.
Even Mindef, who has strict requirements to employ only citizens find itself relaxing on some job roles - it is impossible to find enough citizens willing to work and able to work.
But I do not see it negatively. Singaporeans move up the chain - to get business and manage the business - and we in turn employ the best talent to help run the project. In this instance, most of these talents are FTs as Singaporeans are far and few in between. Even if they are, they are mostly the dead wood - not willing to work and only want to do the minimum but expect to be rewarded all the time.
That is the reality for you. The middle management FTs are very driven - they are value for money - the cannot be said for Singaporeans. The good Singaporeans would have already been promoted - and we give them the priority. Even FTs, we would not be able to deliver what we promise in our contracts at the cost that we can make a profit. If we employ all Singaporeans (assuming we can get) - we will not finish the project on time and we will be losing money - in a nutshell, these contracts will not come our way. In a way, these jobs will be moved elsewhere.
my husband works in IT and in his team, there are no locals. I had asked him before why this is so and he told me that the few local applicants do not impress at interviews .. most would have come fresh from uni/poly, with no work experience yet expecting a high salary - plus these would be the first people to jump ship if the opportunity comes, which means that they have to retrain another employee all over again which they don't have the time for.
tomasulu
Member
part of it is the economy is running at full tilt. when that happens, employees will naturally demand higher salaries and quicker promotions. similarly, in a downturn few companies would pay big increment even if they are doing well and can afford to do so. simple demand and supply really. perhaps we shouldn't be running an economy the size of 5-6m population when our indigenous pop is 3m? or perhaps we should not prop up labor intensive low value add manufacturing?
part of it is foreigners' willingness to accept lower entry-level wages. this is because salaries at home are much lower. (once they have a few years of working experience under their belts, they are as likely to jump ship as a local. you are wrong if you think otherwise.) that creates the perception that locals have unrealistic expectations. it's all relative. if you compare our starting salaries with say hk's or australia and nz's, they are not that high. when your company is not able to hire local employees, it's because you are offering below-market remunerations. all that histronics about local employees being inferior is just your way of justifying the hiring of foreign employees. and you do that because you are short sighted and because you know you can.
part of it is too few local employees have basic degrees. too many singaporeans are working low paying jobs because they are denied college education. most of our poly grads could have gained entry into say an indian university. but we hire an indian grad instead because the jd says a college degree is a must. we need a much higher percent of our student population given a chance to have a college education.
in view of the above, many will argue for a quick and dirty fix of bringing in foreign workers en masse. such a solution, if you can call it that, is not sustainable and damaging in the long run.
part of it is foreigners' willingness to accept lower entry-level wages. this is because salaries at home are much lower. (once they have a few years of working experience under their belts, they are as likely to jump ship as a local. you are wrong if you think otherwise.) that creates the perception that locals have unrealistic expectations. it's all relative. if you compare our starting salaries with say hk's or australia and nz's, they are not that high. when your company is not able to hire local employees, it's because you are offering below-market remunerations. all that histronics about local employees being inferior is just your way of justifying the hiring of foreign employees. and you do that because you are short sighted and because you know you can.
part of it is too few local employees have basic degrees. too many singaporeans are working low paying jobs because they are denied college education. most of our poly grads could have gained entry into say an indian university. but we hire an indian grad instead because the jd says a college degree is a must. we need a much higher percent of our student population given a chance to have a college education.
in view of the above, many will argue for a quick and dirty fix of bringing in foreign workers en masse. such a solution, if you can call it that, is not sustainable and damaging in the long run.
tomasulu
Member
SM your company is unable to make a decent margin by hiring mainly locals because your clients know you can hire lower cost foreigners. If and when that option is no longer available then cost will rise across board and the clients will have to pay more. If that means Singapore is no longer competitive against a lower cost country then we probably shouldn't be in that space to begin with. Or maybr our productivity can rise to compensate for our higher cost base. Whatever the scenario, the solution shouldn't be to allow indiscriminate hiring of foreign workers.