ROM vs Traditional Wedding..

ooooh doll, you seriously have a flair for this rite.. Dont manipulate what I said. If you read carefully,

"Actually it was not exactly a natural miscarriage but self-induced one as I knew for sure we cant keep the baby now.."

You think I dont know the word ABORTION exists? I could have used it myself if that was what I went through. When I say self-induced, I literally overworked myself, ate stuffs that the old folks say is unhealthy and dangerous for pregnancy and pushed myself to a miscarriage.

Anyway, this thread was dedicated to a whole different concern of mine. Instead of concentrating on the important factors, and objectively giving some USEFUL comments, I simply dont get it why you have to narrow down to these points. And more than anything, I dont understand why do I have to explain to you what is my medical history!!
 


lya,

Side-track a little.. but I think it is quite self-deceiving to think in this manner.

A miscarriage is a miscarriage.. what is self-induced miscarriage? Who are you kidding?

Is there such a thing as natural miscarriage?

Miscarriage by definition is a "spontaneous abortion". Not voluntary but probably accidental.
Self-induced miscarriage as you put it is a "self-induced-spontaneous-abortion".. in this case it is voluntary and not accident.

If you don't want the baby, your action is one of abortion.. don't deceive yourself..
 
SM,

Firstly, if you read my posts clearly, in no point did I justify or defend myself. It was just an information I gave towards some ppl who were digging my pregnancy info. And the area of concern was whether I had difficulty conceiving or carrying a baby which was what caused the miscarriage. I think it's irrelevant to go deeper into the topic of unwanted pregnancies. At least that was not what this thread was intended for. Thank you.
 
Lya: HDB does rent out certain category of flats (1-rm and 3-rm) flats to couples who earn under a certain income ceiling. U might want to consider getting ROM if you are considering this option...
happy.gif
 
Lya

Your objective of staring this thread is to seek some form of validation and obtaining feedback because you felt that what you are proposing seems to be against societal norms and as u mentioned, both of you are from "very traditional, orthodox families". But based on your revelation so far, you don't seem like someone who is that mindful of traditions & conventionality. Why start caring now?

To be honest, having had a miscarriage before,I do have a problem with the flippant way in which you described the termination of your 2 previous pregnancies . If you do not want people to ask about it, then you shouldn't have even mentioned it..even if it was to prove how 'fertile' you are. And i'm not gonna bother to ask what you meant when u said u 'pushed yourself into a miscarriage'..

I've also read in another thread about your application to HDB/HLE. Imo, you could have solved your housing problem much earlier if the two of you had done enough homework and be more realistic and settle for a resale flat of a smaller size/lower price that both of you can afford especially since your main priority is to start a home/family with your htb. If finances is an issue, get a place that is more affordable and you can always upgrade to a 5room flat later.
 
We are looking and working towards the solution of renting a whole unit. Hopefully it works out well. Im more concerned about the condition of the unit as the rental cost and location fits into our expectations. Will update soon. Thx
 
And we are all Saints!!!!! Let me know what the eventual settlement.... I need a lesson or 2 on this renting stuff.
 
Kenturik,

I shall update on any settlement.. Hmm.. I kinda like that part bout being Saints.. Its interesting how people 'shoot' people for their actions and become judgemental and commentive.. Perhaps people forget we all have a dark secret or past behind us..

Littlewoman,

Thank you!!
happy.gif
 
I may move back to Singapore eventually so may have to consider such an option. Yes, we all have dark secrets... well it is an internet forum, we are free to shoot or being pot-shot at, i am a fallacy of the same. Afterall, it wont change the price of pork, would it?
 
Lya

you gave the information freely, and i do think that fellow forumers have had the rights to comment despite that u might thought it has seemingly side-tracked from this main topic.

don't think anyone is delibrately shooting u down, because you really got everyone (including me) confused when u mentioned that u had a self-induced miscarriage (likened to a self-induced abortion) when it differs from a miscarriage itself.

anyway all the best on the rentals.
 
An abortion is an abortion. A miscarriage is a miscarriage. I will still call a spade, SPADE. Note that I did not pass any judgement on whether you should or should not terminate your pregnancies. It was your decision and it's your life. But having had two abortions would probably affect your ability to carry your baby to full-term in future.

Do note that even though you have started this thread and some others, you have NO control over how the threads flow. Different people will focus on different aspects of any information shared. There is no such thing called off-topic especially since it's a spin-off from your own posts.
 
And why would you be so bothered with the word "abortion" or "miscarriage" that she used. Affecting you in any ways????
And if it is a spin-off, it is off topic. Maybe you can tell me the difference???? Now can we get back to the rental thingy then to press on social norms and acceptability??
 
Gawd Kenturik..rental of apartments/rooms in Singapore isn't complicated at all. Look for apartment/room in classifieds/property sites, go for viewing, u like it, negotiate with agent/landlord, agree on start date!

You will get better feedback and advise in sites like propertyguru.com.sg or iproperty.com.sg instead of relying on this thread since you seemed so eager to know more about rentals in Sg. There are tons of agents in those sites who can better advise you 'virtually' and by going thru the property sites, you can also have a idea what the rentals are like in Singapore, if you ever return.
 
To be fair to the TS. There are some ethics in any internet forum, you try best to stick to the topic. Spin-off, off topics are no different so try not to argue on that anymore. And asking me a rhetorical question aint going to help in any way. Unless you want to start a flame thread then it is by all means a great way to bait. Otherwise, I just find that you have evolved into being a new spastic breed. Casting your moralistic bullshit and concorting your self proclaimed righteousness has no meaning in this thread. Dun post for the sake to be heard or acknowledged. Hitting 10,000 posts aint gonna make you wiser. And gosh, I am just going with the flow too.....
 
Just because I pointed out that these two words carry different meanings, resulted from different circumstances and may lead to different consequences do not equate to passing judgement. If anyone feels judged, perhaps it warrants some introspection first.
 
kenturik,
i have no idea how your logic work. R u sure abortion/miscarriage which was mentioned in the first post by TS herself is considered off-topic/spin-off, when rental, which was only a suggestion from OTHERS suddenly became THE topic?
well, i scratch my head and i shall go figure
 
I am not passing comments about ethics. I mean I am more a supporter of abortion than keeping the baby for the sake of keeping.

But still the there are meaning to certain words and they should not be used loosely.

A miscarriage is a miscarriage.. Notice the word "Mis". It is accidental, not voluntary. Is there such a thing as self-induced miscarriage? What is the TS trying to put across to us that she is having self-induced miscarriage rather than an abortion?

The other aspect of her thinking.. that she is fertile as evident of her prior pregnancies.. But it does not mean she can carry the baby to the full term in the future as "multiple miscariages or abortions" will affect future ability to carry the baby to the full-term. Miltiple miscarriages and abortions will also lead to higher chance of "women" diseases..

My thinking is that if she is getting married, ie she has to be ready for the baby. If she is not ready, then precaution is 100% required. You don't want a 3rd self-induced miscarriage.. She don't seem responsible in that in the span of 2 years, she has 2 self-induced miscarriages.. And really to me, it is fine but when you don't want a baby and don't put enough protection, don't say things like self-induced miscarriage..

And Kenturik, and who is talking about 10,000 postes. only you. And who are you to tell us not to argue.. Or only you can put across your point... Your posts at February 03, 2010 - 3:26 pm: is not relevant as well.. Shall we also ask you not to post?
 
A marriage is about the coming together of two people. For this to happen the couple needs to look at issues including housing, family planning, finances, etc. Like it or not these are all inter-related and you can't look at one and not the other. If you can only look at one and not the other, then marriage isn't for you YET?

So, why would two previous abortions/miscarriages is of no concern and deemed off-topic when Lya herself has clearly stated that it's important to have a baby with her husband to be?

A mismarriage or abortion is like a childbirth. It depletes a woman's physical resources.
 
I agree with what Doll says on "A marriage is about the coming together of two people. For this to happen the couple needs to look at issues including housing, family planning, finances, etc." It is very true and every single one contributes to either a successful or failed marriage. Marriage itself is a big commitment, unlike courtship, marriage equips to living together and acceptance of each person good / bad pts and staying together points out to more of this. TS and her bf might be focusing on issues of the rental now, but then again, she will want to start a family with her bf in the future ya? And that's where Babies come into the pic...

Frankly, I will feel that babies are innocent and we shldn't put the wrongs that we had done onto them... Protection shld be used in the first place... Imagine those couples who want so much to have a child but unable to do so due to health or other reasons?
 
One time is called an accident. Two times of the same "mistake" or "act" cannot be called an accident anymore. It's very bad planning at the least. This is common sense and nothing to do with sitting on the moral pedestal.
 
You can be unconventional living unconventional lives but you cannot change the conventional meaning/s of words. You don't call the shots on words!
 
littlewoman,

I don't judge on abortion. It is a woman's right. No one to tell her if it is right or wrong. Only she herself can decide.

Yes, babies are innocent. Until the baby has a life, the mother decides..

But having multiple self-induced miscarriage (come on, is there even such a term) is her choice. But don't have it make it sound like a "mis" when it is intentional and voluntary.

Couples who can't have baby.. their luck lor.. what to do? Someone having abortion or miscarriage does not increase other's chance of conceiving..

I also find her logic of talking about cost of rental as being high and beyond her financials as puzzling. All things being equal, rental will be less than having your own house. If she can't afford rental, can she afford to have own house - to pay for every single thing..

And if finance is not ready then don't rush into marriage as much as we may like to.
 
sm,

agree with you...

marriage is basically about planning frankly.. don't leave the issues unsettled as it will keep on snowballing...

However, I will personally feel that it is more to a mutual right between the guy and the lady to decide if the lady is to keep the baby. It is also fated that some couples doesn't have a "å­©å­å‘½â€œ, jus like how some people are fated to have children but choose not to treasure it. Watever it is, the keypt is it is a responsbility that we being adults shld bear if the wrongs are committed and not brushing it aside...

opps... am I out of topic again?
 
littlewoman,

The man may impregnate the woman but still it is the right of the woman and not the man to decide to keep the baby or not. Of course, the man's support is important for her decision.

Of course having children is one of the most wonderful experience a parent can have.. and probably difficult to explain to someone who don't have children or don't like children.
 
sm: though I dunno u personally but I can feel that u are a great father in one way or another...
happy.gif
I will say that a woman has the right as becoz the baby is growing in her tummy... other that that, there is no right on her to decide if the baby shld comes into the world ya? If the parents realli don't wishes to have a BB at that time, then don't risk of getting preggy...
 
Ya, don't risk.. take 100% precaution. Better still abstain from sex. But if the baby already conceived, then no choice right.. have to make the decision..
 
Hi Lya and Kentucky, the forummers generally are not pinpointing the the moral issues of your abortion but on the word "SELF-INDUCTED MISCARRIAGE". Afterall whatt's done can't be undone.
I believe most of them are curious on what is this about.
Medical studies have proven that old wives tales like drinking cold water, eating fruits like pineapple, hitting nails on the walls will not cause miscarriage.
Gynaes have even encourage pregnant women to do exercises like yoga, swim and light jog during pregnancy.
Unless you are talking about drastic actions like induce a huge blow on the tummy or rolling down the staircase to "induce miscarriage".
If not, the miscarriage might be largely due to chromosome disorder. It is better to consult professional medical care before conceiving to prevent further miscarriages.
 
Inn,

You have cited drastic scenarios of huge blows on the tummy,rolling down stairs etc, common, dont loosely use words. I appreciate your concern on future medical problems though.

As the TS who clearly started this to hear advice on something I needed help and ideas on, I think what exactly Im reading lately is totally irrelevant. It's absurd been thrown remarks and judgements on too. I have never been exactly an abortion supporter but years on and now, I believe its a better option then to keep a child at the wrong time and make life miserable for all related parties.

If the word self-induced miscarriage troubles you righteous beings than ignore it! Perhaps I gotta dig the dictionary to find a term that refers to a non-medically-aborted termination of pregnancy. It's easy to put up a righteous front and hound a person based on the tentative information stated by them in forums.

To people like Doll, I hope you reflect on yourself first before screening every single thread in here digging for any clause you can get your faulty hands on. I presume you are not one of the rare saints in this world. Be honest to yourself yah...
 
Hi Lya, I think you might have mis-read my post and whether others choose to abort or keep their own child is none of my business.

If you read my post clearly, I am not pinpointing at you on anything but on the existence of "self--induced" miscarriage. Perhaps you might have tot that it's caused by you but the real reason might be other pertaining health issues and also the below sentence are not referring to you.

You have cited drastic scenarios of huge blows on the tummy,rolling down stairs etc, common, dont loosely use words.

Whatever I want to emphasis is tht the miscarriage might not be due to the old wives tales/myths or anything that you have done unless it's due to a huge blow to the tummy or a drastic fall from the chair/stairs etc. This is actually quoted from my gynae.

For my past miscarriage, I have been blaming myself for telling ppl that I m preggy before the 1st trimester taking cold water, green tea" those "liang" food and even swimand do light exercise. I was very guilty and tot that I caused the miscarriage. However when I saw friends who could do yoga, work, shifted house and did exactly the old wives tales, they have a super smooth pregnancy. I realised that there might be other hidden issues...
Hence my hb and I watched our health, supplements and did a health checkup before we were given the green light to TTC. We did conceived a healthy bb afterall.

Family planning is part of marriage mah....it's inevitable for others to touch on the children topics.
 
Inn,

What makes you think that I followed the methods you assume I did, like taking cold water, green tea, bla bla? It's silly and stupid to put the blame on those acts.. Anyway I dont think I have to go into details on what I went through. Family planning is essential I understand and we clearly drew a line afterwards as to when would be the proper time to have a child. Just because I initiated TOP, doesnt mean we are gonna suck at it or lack planning. Accidents happen and it may not always be once. Anyway we have been cautious ever since. I am sentimental myself bout the facts bout innocent lives and etc but I still think its the best choice a couple can make than to have a child at the wrong time and suffer bad consequences and put the child through a tough life. It is NOT a sacrifice to keep a child that was conceived just for the sake of safekeeping a life and putting it through a lifetime of shit...
 
Lya,

i dun understand...

at first, u mentioned abt the housing issue, many here suggested rental...then u mentioned rental expensive..

then pple here kindly remind u that once fertile doesn't mean always fertile...ask u to just seek medical advice for your own good...

i can see all the advices given were well-meaning but u get all hot and defensive...

hmm...does that mean we all shld shut up?
 
Is it wrong to share my feedback on advices? So that I could get further advices on how to counter it? Anyway if you read properly, we have already gotten into the option of rental. Infact yesterday we viewed a unit that was really good and we paid for it already. Before I started this thread, I did so with no idea whatsoever and the useful advices from some of them got me thinking of a new perspective and I have already made my moves towards that! We would be getting our keys this weekend and now we are heading towards rushed wedding so as to officially move in as man and wife. Didnt expect things this soon as we had put things on hold after being delayed by HDB's side on purchasing a house. Now that we have gotten a place, we dont want to be paying for nothing whilst not staying in and we would have to be married to live together and thus are starting our plans, not too bad as we had done some preparations to an extent before we put things on hold..

Conclusion: It's not that I dont take advices, as you see, I HAVE. Its just some uncalled for comments that I do not entertain. Ok can we call this a wrap now? I would like to get into the bride-to-be mood and not be dampened by the negativity going on in here lately. Thank you to the kind souls who bother to be understanding..
 
Lya

i gotta admit that i'm losing my freaking patience with you

in forum, you don't call the shots on sub-sub-sub-sub topics. provided it don't go over-board, anyone has the freedom to side-track. moreover, no one is forcing you to reveal any damn thing. you can choose to reply or not to reply anyway, but it's absurd when u are making yourself out of a victim - only a moron like kenturik can't tell.

don't think ppl are really interested in your medical history, it's the confusion of certain terms that left us high and dry in the second place; first place, being your current financial thoughts towards renting/owning a house, of course.

in real life, it's kinda similar with conversations as well. before u get all defensive AGAIN, take some time to think through first.
 
My apologies cos I didn't catch the part on you settling the rental...in any case, I see that Inn's msg was quite well-meaning and no ill intentions were displayed...but then u may have seen it in another different angle...

well, congrats on your soon-to-held wedding..
 
Vios, what's with your patience? Why be bothered with someone totally alien to you? You cant give relevant useful tips, move off! Hell we are not here to shoot each others' mouth off are we? Nothing useful or good to say, bug off! Is that gonna ruin anyone's life in here? I feel some are shooting off here to be heard as no one listens up in real life!
 
re. to Thursday, February 04, 2010 - 1:43 pm,

i trust that you have some ideas with the rentals liao, so don't want to go into there.

it's a new phrase for you - having had to prep the aspect of a new life with your partner. that's good as long as there are viable plans, and trust me, we are happy for you.

life is a long journey - u can't be expecting only positives - in fact, the negatives will indirectly assist if u can make the most out of it.
good luck.
 
Vios, ok, sorry I guess I shot out without realising your last msg was for the one before that.. Thats how miscommunication happens. Before we prolong this useless argument simply trying to have the last say, STOP!!

Thank you for your well intended msg at 04 February @ 1.54pm


Close chapter plssss
 
Thank you so much littlewoman.. ermm... could I continue this thread in a new light? I am toying with the idea of holding a solemnization at a hotel setting after which we just tie the 'thali', the indian nuptial thread.. This seemed to be the best idea that came to me as we are short of time to go to the extent of preparation for a customary temple wedding and calling up of hundreds of ppl.. Thus, a good ambience and setting would complement the loss of traditional holy settings.

The tips I would like to get is on recommendations on nice venues, preferably hotel or club settings with a reasonable solemnization package to offer. We would then be calling just close relatives and have an intimate affair. I may not be aware of all the places around and such thus many heads coming together would be helpful to me.. Thank you in advance
happy.gif
 
i held my banquet at the ballroom at grassroots club...maybe u can try those clubs like orchid country club or even Safra...if u dun mind the pricing, then hotels...
 


My personal apologies to Kenturik,

Im sorry to have been the cause of you being criticized by some here.. You meant good to me and that was not fair, just that you saw things in similar perspectives to me. Thanks for that.. Have a great day!
 
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