No children = no future?

buddhabar

Active Member
My best friend revealed to me the pain and disappointment she experienced in her past relationships.
I have shared my honest and truthful views with her. I would like to hear from anyone.
She has a dark past, had an abortion resulting in her inconceivable status today.
She doesn't want any kids anyway as she dislike kids totally, they are irritating, bothersome and a
burden to her thus her inconceivability doesn't bother her as much (as what she claimed)
In all her serious relationships, her BFs couldn't accept it stating they want to start a family resulting in the imminent breakup. Whether it is the abortion , her inconceivability or her dislike of kids that is the real reason,
that's something that she doesn't really know. I am in a way baffle too. From what I read in newspapers, there are many married couples out there that doesn't have or want children , isn't it so?
I only know there can still be a family without a spouse, not sure can there also be a family with kids?
 


miloice

Well-Known Member
Hi. How is your bond with your own folks? Patenting is something that you have to want bad enough to appreciate. When i was dating my wife, both of us didn't want kids either. Found them totally irritating and disruptive to our lives. Even after marriage, we were undecided.

What made me saw parenting differently was with the passing of my father. The meaning and opportunity of the father child bond is special. I truly understood that from my dad's perspective through his death. Everyone will have some trig points in life. We cannot rush the decision from within. When u r convinced, there is no looking back and regret. We regret because we didn't really want and owned that decision and hence find reasons to blame and fault after. My 2 cents.
 

buddhabar

Active Member
Hi Milo
I understand where you are coming from, I only appreciate my parents after I became one myself. Couldn't agreed on that further.
My opinion to her is, if 2 parties cannot concur on whether to have kids or not, then they shouldn't go into a marriage. If both parties
are banging on the chances that they will be able to convince the other to change their perspective, then it's gamble because either
party will be denied and thus having to live a un-fulfilled marriage.
 

ohsammy

Member
Hi Milo
I understand where you are coming from, I only appreciate my parents after I became one myself. Couldn't agreed on that further.
My opinion to her is, if 2 parties cannot concur on whether to have kids or not, then they shouldn't go into a marriage. If both parties
are banging on the chances that they will be able to convince the other to change their perspective, then it's gamble because either
party will be denied and thus having to live a un-fulfilled marriage.

Sorry to hear that about your best friend. In my opinion, it's really hard to go into a long-term r/s without first knowing my S/O's stance on having children. If we disagree on that, I won't feel secure about tying the knot.

That said, for both people in a couple to agree on NOT having kids, is quite rare. If one of you are even a little bit undecided on having kids, your best bet is to seek assurance from your partner. If BOTH of you are undecided, you might have a bit of a problem if one of you suddenly changes your mind. The best, is of course, is both of you are already set of having children.

Maybe at most just argue about how many to have.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
well.... depends what the couple was in the marriage for. When we married, kids wasn't on the table. There is no assumption that we would eventually like kids. I don't think there is a fixed answer. I proposed to my wife because I know she is the person I want to grow old with. With or without kids, that doesn't change.
 

ohsammy

Member
well.... depends what the couple was in the marriage for. When we married, kids wasn't on the table. There is no assumption that we would eventually like kids. I don't think there is a fixed answer. I proposed to my wife because I know she is the person I want to grow old with. With or without kids, that doesn't change.

Thanks for sharing, that's really sweet!

May I ask if you are currently a parent? Did you and your wife eventually come to agree on whether to have children or not? If yes, how did the agreement come about?

Just curious as I couldn't tell from your reply if you are a father or not...
 

buddhabar

Active Member
I proposed to my wife because I know she is the person I want to grow old with. With or without kids, that doesn't change.

This's as beautiful as it can gets , honestly... if only she ever met someone like you.
So far that I know, whenever she comes clean with her potential partner
on her stance, they will try to convince and counsel , but upon knowing her
adamant, they seceded in one way or another eventually. Seriously, I think you
may belong to the minority who would still marry a girl knowing she cant bear
your offspring. Most would stumble at this hurdle I guess ..... in reality rather than
just hypothetical.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Thanks for sharing, that's really sweet!

May I ask if you are currently a parent? Did you and your wife eventually come to agree on whether to have children or not? If yes, how did the agreement come about?

Just curious as I couldn't tell from your reply if you are a father or not...

hi, I guess we are connected and influencing each other. The decision wasn't a sudden one. My dad's passing made a huge change in my perspective towards parenting. When I shared with my wife, she shared her wish to be a mother as well, then, we just took it naturally. She downloaded an applet to monitor her cycle and we time it. Turned out, succeeded in second try.

To your question, we are expecting the second child now.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
This's as beautiful as it can gets , honestly... if only she ever met someone like you.
So far that I know, whenever she comes clean with her potential partner
on her stance, they will try to convince and counsel , but upon knowing her
adamant, they seceded in one way or another eventually. Seriously, I think you
may belong to the minority who would still marry a girl knowing she cant bear
your offspring. Most would stumble at this hurdle I guess ..... in reality rather than
just hypothetical.

Well... this is common, we tend to marry the person not for who they are but what we wish and expect them to become. We fight hard to change our partners to what we think should be. When I hear my friend hating so much parenting, makes me think why he even agree to be a father. He blames it to wife and family pressure. Family pressure is understandable. But spouse? You choose her as she did as well. So, why choose to marry someone that cannot accept who you are.
 
Sorry to hear that about your best friend. In my opinion, it's really hard to go into a long-term r/s without first knowing my S/O's stance on having children. If we disagree on that, I won't feel secure about tying the knot.

That said, for both people in a couple to agree on NOT having kids, is quite rare. If one of you are even a little bit undecided on having kids, your best bet is to seek assurance from your partner. If BOTH of you are undecided, you might have a bit of a problem if one of you suddenly changes your mind. The best, is of course, is both of you are already set of having children.

Maybe at most just argue about how many to have.
I don't quite agree with what you say that couples who agree to be without
kids are rare. In fact, it is becoming more common with older couples.

I think kids are important. If your friend does not want to have kids, do not even step into one with a guy who wants kids. Be fair to the guy. There are a lot of things for which can be done alone except for giving birth.
 

ohsammy

Member
hi, I guess we are connected and influencing each other. The decision wasn't a sudden one. My dad's passing made a huge change in my perspective towards parenting. When I shared with my wife, she shared her wish to be a mother as well, then, we just took it naturally. She downloaded an applet to monitor her cycle and we time it. Turned out, succeeded in second try.

To your question, we are expecting the second child now.

Congratulations. That is very good to hear. I am sure you are an amazing and self-reflecting parent and will continue to be. :)
 

ohsammy

Member
I don't quite agree with what you say that couples who agree to be without
kids are rare. In fact, it is becoming more common with older couples.

Hahaha, maybe it's the circle I hang out with. Many of them are kids lovers. And no matter what, I feel people react more negatively towards women who say they don't want kids, as compared to men who say they don't want kids. Maybe it's just me.
 

buddhabar

Active Member
I feel people react more negatively towards women who say they don't want kids, as compared to men who say they don't want kids.

I kinda feel the same on this and thought it's quite sexist to some extend. Men who doesn't want kids are never seen in more critical light compare to women, they are often seen as free spirit and flamboyant whereas when a women choose not to have kids they are deem to have sacrificed motherhood for their career
 

Julie Sim

New Member
So sorry to hear about your best friend. Personally I believe that Singapore is still rather conservative with our Asian family values, so perhaps it might be pressurizing on both the male and the female as their parents probably would want grandchildren and continuity of the family line as well. :(
 
So sorry to hear about your best friend. Personally I believe that Singapore is still rather conservative with our Asian family values, so perhaps it might be pressurizing on both the male and the female as their parents probably would want grandchildren and continuity of the family line as well. :(

Its relative. You might think that singapore rather conservative. Reality is, it varies with personal beliefs and that the people today are quite different from those stereotypes common in the 90s and earlier.

Whether having a kid or otherwise will ultimately depend on the decision making of the man and woman. It will be quite sad if the kid is not brought into live because of love and the want of the couple to want to share their lives with the kid. Imagine the horror to the kid, if he discovers that he was brought to live cos of socials and beliefs or perhaps the pressures from the social environment.

Honestly, this leads to one more question for each of us. That is, who do we live for? The old ones pressuring for some babies to play with? Or is it the neighbours or friends who think that married must have kids or "it is strange!"? Do not forget that when they (your neighbours, elderly folks or whoever they are) are long gone, the kids... remain alive and still are a commitment.

Of course, each of us have different personal values and beliefs. What would really help is not the blindly following the faith or following the social pressure "that it is time". Being prisoners of social beliefs is a rather tough way to live life. Perhaps, what would work for many (from what I read) is just find someone who shares the same values as you do. That matters. End of the day, we all will age and die. But, what is rare to change is the personal values and beliefs. At least, when all that facade fades away, the person that remains is still the one who shares the same beliefs as you do.

The world is a pretty much make belief one. One man's hero is another's villain. One man's good deeds are another's sins. If the environment is to change altogether to one where kids are created in test tubes (like some sci fi movie), would most of us not believe that having kids is "abnormal"?.... The point is that we should not be something just because its "normal" or accepted", but to live life as people that we are and really believe in.

Once I joked with my friends, if we were to make monkeys wear pants, they would probably think that wearing pants is a must everyday. Change that to skirt and they would think the same too. Culture, customs and values are constantly evolving. We may not believe in it, but our decisions (ie, to have or not have a kid) should ultimately be the result of what believe. Just my worthless 2 cents.
 
I don't quite agree with what you say that couples who agree to be without
kids are rare. In fact, it is becoming more common with older couples.

I think kids are important. If your friend does not want to have kids, do not even step into one with a guy who wants kids. Be fair to the guy. There are a lot of things for which can be done alone except for giving birth.

lol. I like your statement. Its also respecting each other's choice and then having a consensus. The tricky thing is that everyone believes differently and not forgetting that love is blind. Most of these may not be properly discussed, before the marriage....
 

buddhabar

Active Member
Its relative. You might think that singapore rather conservative. Reality is, it varies with personal beliefs and that the people today are quite different from those stereotypes common in the 90s and earlier.

Whether having a kid or otherwise will ultimately depend on the decision making of the man and woman. It will be quite sad if the kid is not brought into live because of love and the want of the couple to want to share their lives with the kid. Imagine the horror to the kid, if he discovers that he was brought to live cos of socials and beliefs or perhaps the pressures from the social environment.

Honestly, this leads to one more question for each of us. That is, who do we live for? The old ones pressuring for some babies to play with? Or is it the neighbours or friends who think that married must have kids or "it is strange!"? Do not forget that when they (your neighbours, elderly folks or whoever they are) are long gone, the kids... remain alive and still are a commitment.

Of course, each of us have different personal values and beliefs. What would really help is not the blindly following the faith or following the social pressure "that it is time". Being prisoners of social beliefs is a rather tough way to live life. Perhaps, what would work for many (from what I read) is just find someone who shares the same values as you do. That matters. End of the day, we all will age and die. But, what is rare to change is the personal values and beliefs. At least, when all that facade fades away, the person that remains is still the one who shares the same beliefs as you do.

The world is a pretty much make belief one. One man's hero is another's villain. One man's good deeds are another's sins. If the environment is to change altogether to one where kids are created in test tubes (like some sci fi movie), would most of us not believe that having kids is "abnormal"?.... The point is that we should not be something just because its "normal" or accepted", but to live life as people that we are and really believe in.

Once I joked with my friends, if we were to make monkeys wear pants, they would probably think that wearing pants is a must everyday. Change that to skirt and they would think the same too. Culture, customs and values are constantly evolving. We may not believe in it, but our decisions (ie, to have or not have a kid) should ultimately be the result of what believe. Just my worthless 2 cents.
 

buddhabar

Active Member
You come across as someone who lives by your beliefs and not social pressure. So IF given the situation where your spouse-to-be affirmatively do not concur with your beliefs when it comes to having kids, will you walk?
 

nudieposh

Member
i do have married couple friends who are without kids and they have no intention to have one. and they are still living happily together.
it's about meeting the right one who has the same thoughts and beliefs as you.
 
You come across as someone who lives by your beliefs and not social pressure. So IF given the situation where your spouse-to-be affirmatively do not concur with your beliefs when it comes to having kids, will you walk?

Do you know you already understand that social pressures influence how people live lives? Exactly. Walk or run, its still back to do we live with what we believe or what society believes?

At the death bed, what matters really? Being seen "correct" or having lived without regrets? I think this answer is apparent in many, but answering it. How many have been truthful?

Does it matter also if there is an answer? Or no answers? Then, it goes to the same question. What do we seek? Simply put, following is simpler than changing. Thats how this thread started in the very first place. When social values and beliefs are so ingrained, then questions are posed over these same issues.
 

ohsammy

Member
Its relative. You might think that singapore rather conservative. Reality is, it varies with personal beliefs and that the people today are quite different from those stereotypes common in the 90s and earlier.

Whether having a kid or otherwise will ultimately depend on the decision making of the man and woman. It will be quite sad if the kid is not brought into live because of love and the want of the couple to want to share their lives with the kid. Imagine the horror to the kid, if he discovers that he was brought to live cos of socials and beliefs or perhaps the pressures from the social environment.

Honestly, this leads to one more question for each of us. That is, who do we live for? The old ones pressuring for some babies to play with? Or is it the neighbours or friends who think that married must have kids or "it is strange!"? Do not forget that when they (your neighbours, elderly folks or whoever they are) are long gone, the kids... remain alive and still are a commitment.

Of course, each of us have different personal values and beliefs. What would really help is not the blindly following the faith or following the social pressure "that it is time". Being prisoners of social beliefs is a rather tough way to live life. Perhaps, what would work for many (from what I read) is just find someone who shares the same values as you do. That matters. End of the day, we all will age and die. But, what is rare to change is the personal values and beliefs. At least, when all that facade fades away, the person that remains is still the one who shares the same beliefs as you do.

The world is a pretty much make belief one. One man's hero is another's villain. One man's good deeds are another's sins. If the environment is to change altogether to one where kids are created in test tubes (like some sci fi movie), would most of us not believe that having kids is "abnormal"?.... The point is that we should not be something just because its "normal" or accepted", but to live life as people that we are and really believe in.

Once I joked with my friends, if we were to make monkeys wear pants, they would probably think that wearing pants is a must everyday. Change that to skirt and they would think the same too. Culture, customs and values are constantly evolving. We may not believe in it, but our decisions (ie, to have or not have a kid) should ultimately be the result of what believe. Just my worthless 2 cents.

So well said.
 
You come across as someone who lives by your beliefs and not social pressure. So IF given the situation where your spouse-to-be affirmatively do not concur with your beliefs when it comes to having kids, will you walk?
You ask a very difficult question. A counsellor once said and I thought it can aptly answer your question. Would you be happy for the rest of your life with your spouse who does not want to have kids if you want kids? I would like to know your answer.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
IWhether having a kid or otherwise will ultimately depend on the decision making of the man and woman. It will be quite sad if the kid is not brought into live because of love and the want of the couple to want to share their lives with the kid. Imagine the horror to the kid, if he discovers that he was brought to live cos of socials and beliefs or perhaps the pressures from the social environment.

Interesting discussion here...
I would beg to differ about the importance of why parents initially conceive. it is not much a disaster that we didn't born in a perfect family and environment. If our children are brought up in a lie by the parents to put on an impression then, they will be shocked and upset to realize. However, life is much more than a single decision. Be it an accident, to conform to social norms or to please their grand parents, we know our parents not because of how and why they initially conceived us but the bond and connection through the years together. When you look at things holistically, the initial reasons isn't so important. Almost all of our grand parents and ancestors marry for these reasons. How we bring them up is going to influence them much more.

I agree much with you its our call to conform and accept to be victims of the expectations or live our lives the way we want it and cope with all the expectations. Folks will be folks, they will nag and complain, if the couple is firm with their decisions, they can deal with it.

For 6 years, both my in laws and own mother have been asking us to have kids. Till they finally gave up hoping. Then, we announced conceiving our first child. :)
No one can force you if you do not want it. We can either take responsibility about our decisions or forever victimize ourselves for the decision to conform.
 

buddhabar

Active Member
You ask a very difficult question. A counsellor once said and I thought it can aptly answer your question. Would you be happy for the rest of your life with your spouse who does not want to have kids if you want kids? I would like to know your answer.

To be honest, this is a purely a hypothetical question to me as I already have 2 kids. For me, if I can't agreed with my spouse to be on family building and kids raising. I will walk because I do not wish to live an un-fulfilled marriage and I know how that feels. To answer your question, I will not be happy in a marriage that leaves a void in my life and i will not even go into that marriage at all. I swear never again to put on something that doesn't fits me.
 
To be honest, this is a purely a hypothetical question to me as I already have 2 kids. For me, if I can't agreed with my spouse to be on family building and kids raising. I will walk because I do not wish to live an un-fulfilled marriage and I know how that feels. To answer your question, I will not be happy in a marriage that leaves a void in my life and i will not even go into that marriage at all. I swear never again to put on something that doesn't fits me.
Well said. Unfortunately, there are people who went blindly into marriage without considering all these things. Love is really blind and it fizzles off blindly as well.

You only live once. Do you want to walk out of an unfulfilled marriage or do you want to remain in it is up to you. We sometimes have to make cruel choices in life. You cannot satisfied everyone.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Well said. Unfortunately, there are people who went blindly into marriage without considering all these things. Love is really blind and it fizzles off blindly as well.

You only live once. Do you want to walk out of an unfulfilled marriage or do you want to remain in it is up to you. We sometimes have to make cruel choices in life. You cannot satisfied everyone.
Personally, walked painfully out of a relationship because I realized it is not a future I want. We mold our own happiness. So, we need to take charge and make things happen. No such thing as blindness. Emotions makes the vision cloudy, however, reality will sit in eventually.
 

ohsammy

Member
It's important to know who you are before committing yourself to a relationship. So when circumstances change, be it your partner or the environment, at least you know how to take charge of your happiness to give yourself the life you deserve. At the end of the day, you answer to your own happiness too (as long as you're not harming anyone else while doing it), that is most important.
 

DingOOPS

Member
I hope she finds someone who is able to accept her for who she is. and not just a baby making machine. cheers.
 

buddhabar

Active Member
I hope she finds someone who is able to accept her for who she is. and not just a baby making machine. cheers.

That's an understatement. she's medically inconceivable so how can anyone marry her for babies. But Why is it so difficult to find someone who can truly appreciate her as she it and not what she's expected to do as a women?
 
Personally, walked painfully out of a relationship because I realized it is not a future I want. We mold our own happiness. So, we need to take charge and make things happen. No such thing as blindness. Emotions makes the vision cloudy, however, reality will sit in eventually.

You are right. Making tough decisions isn't easy. And, the tougher part is most (or all) of life decisions are irreversible.

I do find that many of us are victims of our own doing, which I am guilty of. Not thinking through about what I would want to achieve and failing to discuss the most pertinent questions before committing. Making emotional decisions is easy. But, making the right rational decisions is the tough one and facing up with our mistakes is tougher still.

I suppose its really growing up and to mature with all these learning experience. Or otherwise, we would always be emotionally young. Unfortunately, the whole process is always tough, frustrating, difficult and seldom as simple as what those K or J dramas portray. And, not everyone has parents who can be role models. I seen many friends going through this.

May be, this is why a friend's mum used to lament "Marriage is a mistake. Getting remarried is not learning from the same mistake." She is a single mum and her last few advice was "do not fear about losing your other today. just take your time to find another. nothing too much to worry over." From the words of someone who had seen the world, I believe her though these lessons are still better appreciated (not just learnt) from falling and getting up.

Life is so full of irony. At the time of courtship, many are rushing to get in. After exchanging the vows, many more are in a hurry to get out. Affairs of the heart is truly easier of entry, than exit. May be, one day when we are all old, we are probably going to laugh and joke over how silly we were. Cheers.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Actually, the best 'role models' could sometimes be learning not to make their mistakes. When you see how pride come in between all the endless childish fights, eventual separation and dramatic divorce. Finally taking the death of one parent for both to realize what they have lost. All the hatred is no more, when an ex wife that is supposed to hate the ex partner so much is grieving so much over his passing, the emotional contradiction she have to go through. Pride is nothing when it destroys what is important to us. Sorry for distracting.... however, I don't think positive role models are good lessons for us, rather, hard life lessons. We don't learn as much from happiness as much as we can learn from mistakes.
 
I do not know if this rings a bell. Doesn't all these fighting resemble that personal bias which has developed since the days when we were born? And, that these bias are heavily influenced by our parents. Whether its true or otherwise, the same thing "pride" has been a star feature in the breakdown of many marriages and relationships. At least, that's what I came across personally.

Once I told my SO that the rate which we were going, we would probably end up like her parents. Not talking or even if talking.... its fighting. However much we may tell ourselves that we will not be guilty of doing the same and serving our own "pride", some of these character DNA do get inherited down the line and the same fighting repeats all over, except with younger participants.

Once my SO and I fought over a decision on the business, she claimed that the advice wouldn't work and threw it out of the window. Over the various decisions, we fought over and over again. There was no real consensus... may be there was. But, it was myself nodding the head, telling her "please go ahead. by all means." Fighting simply sapped the life out of me. When things went wrong, it was me. Doesn't that sound like how a married couple would fight over a kid and how to bring up the kid? Its exactly the same.

At some point in time, either party has to give up and give up a lot. But, that also means (possibly) reaching a point where it just doesn't seem to make any sense to continue. Question then is, "so what?" What do we achieve by giving in? What do we gain by "losing" or "winning"? Either way, its just tiring to keep saying yes and its with a false front. Yes... even till today, my SO doesn't know I was merely nodding my head, with my fingers crossed behind.

Surely, an old friend reminded that marriage is the end to a romantic relationship. Soon it would be man against woman and vice versa, each one fighting to be "right" or "never in the wrong".

Its a silly game. Like one of lyrics from Roxette's song, "love is a game that we all play... only to lose". Its a funny game. All the laughter and joy, but to end with hatred and disbelief. However prepared we are, everyone changes and then marriage becomes a mere instrument to bind everyone together in "black and white". Does it all matter?

Knowing that we will all die one day. What does marriage mean? A family full of kids and 3 generations in one household? Or is it to just satisfy the selfish wishes of the elderly? Or is it that we will not have to die alone? After seeing whatever that has happened, it boils down to what do we want to achieve and whether we will change our minds someday somehow?
 
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buddhabar

Active Member
"At some point in time, either party has to give up and give up a lot. But, that also means (possibly) reaching a point where it just doesn't seem to make any sense to continue. Question then is, "so what?" What do we achieve by giving in? What do we gain by "losing" or "winning"? Either way, its just tiring to keep saying yes and its with a false front. Yes... even till today, my SO doesn't know I was merely nodding my head, with my fingers crossed behind. "

Do you think There will come a point when you will get tired of being yourself ?
Frankly, there was a time when I was agreeing in the name of peace ....
That was a very dark period of my life when I dislike myself for being myself.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
I do not know if this rings a bell. Doesn't all these fighting resemble that personal bias which has developed since the days when we were born? And, that these bias are heavily influenced by our parents. Whether its true or otherwise, the same thing "pride" has been a star feature in the breakdown of many marriages and relationships. At least, that's what I came across personally.

Once I told my SO that the rate which we were going, we would probably end up like her parents. Not talking or even if talking.... its fighting. However much we may tell ourselves that we will not be guilty of doing the same and serving our own "pride", some of these character DNA do get inherited down the line and the same fighting repeats all over, except with younger participants.

Once my SO and I fought over a decision on the business, she claimed that the advice wouldn't work and threw it out of the window. Over the various decisions, we fought over and over again. There was no real consensus... may be there was. But, it was myself nodding the head, telling her "please go ahead. by all means." Fighting simply sapped the life out of me. When things went wrong, it was me. Doesn't that sound like how a married couple would fight over a kid and how to bring up the kid? Its exactly the same.

At some point in time, either party has to give up and give up a lot. But, that also means (possibly) reaching a point where it just doesn't seem to make any sense to continue. Question then is, "so what?" What do we achieve by giving in? What do we gain by "losing" or "winning"? Either way, its just tiring to keep saying yes and its with a false front. Yes... even till today, my SO doesn't know I was merely nodding my head, with my fingers crossed behind.

Surely, an old friend reminded that marriage is the end to a romantic relationship. Soon it would be man against woman and vice versa, each one fighting to be "right" or "never in the wrong".

Its a silly game. Like one of lyrics from Roxette's song, "love is a game that we all play... only to lose". Its a funny game. All the laughter and joy, but to end with hatred and disbelief. However prepared we are, everyone changes and then marriage becomes a mere instrument to bind everyone together in "black and white". Does it all matter?

Knowing that we will all die one day. What does marriage mean? A family full of kids and 3 generations in one household? Or is it to just satisfy the selfish wishes of the elderly? Or is it that we will not have to die alone? After seeing whatever that has happened, it boils down to what do we want to achieve and whether we will change our minds someday somehow?

Why did you choose to marry someone whose pride is bigger than the relationship? The thing is most only find out when reality sits in. During courtship, many are blind to it. My parents have a big influence on me. All the years of fights and the children being in between. I see how childish and dumb it is to fight and not communicate. I struggled in my previous relationship as well until I realized I am heading my dad's road. We can and should be aware of compatibility issues ahead. If you are to accept a prideful person, then you have to be the one that is suppressing your pride in agreement all the time. However, if we are well aware of our pride and how it can hurt each other, the couple can workaround it. Everyone have pride, it is natural. However, how we use it to motivate or destroy our relationships is really up to us. It takes 2 to tango. There will always be a dominant partner in any relationship, the guide and lead. Be it to suppress their own pride, or rationalize things.

There is no fixed solution, at the end of the day, we look at how it is progressing. Are we happy and growing stronger together are just enduring and tolerating the differences just to maintain some peace? Pride is double edge, it can motivate us to work hard towards our common goals or it can destroy everything.
 
Why did you choose to marry someone whose pride is bigger than the relationship? The thing is most only find out when reality sits in. During courtship, many are blind to it. My parents have a big influence on me. All the years of fights and the children being in between. I see how childish and dumb it is to fight and not communicate. I struggled in my previous relationship as well until I realized I am heading my dad's road. We can and should be aware of compatibility issues ahead. If you are to accept a prideful person, then you have to be the one that is suppressing your pride in agreement all the time. However, if we are well aware of our pride and how it can hurt each other, the couple can workaround it. Everyone have pride, it is natural. However, how we use it to motivate or destroy our relationships is really up to us. It takes 2 to tango. There will always be a dominant partner in any relationship, the guide and lead. Be it to suppress their own pride, or rationalize things.

There is no fixed solution, at the end of the day, we look at how it is progressing. Are we happy and growing stronger together are just enduring and tolerating the differences just to maintain some peace? Pride is double edge, it can motivate us to work hard towards our common goals or it can destroy everything.

You are really quick. You understand the issue.

I was blind during the courtship. Same here, my parents fought a lot when I was small. There were things I saw in them which I didn't like. That was as you mentioned, "how childish and dumb it is to fight and not communicate". Strangely, to some traditional cultures, its "must fight" than better. Odd!

When it was about an issue in business, it was always her decisions which count, whether right or otherwise. It ate into the relationship. Just because she wanted to be seen as "right". That's the problem which many of us face. Everyone wants to be "right" and... all the time, but this is all at the expense of the relationship. When things go wrong, it was always "finger" pointing elsewhere, except herself. Even up till today, the relationship was held together, just cos her family (and related communities) view a break up as "shameful" and "wrong". But, wait, isn't hypocrisy a greater sin? Isn't acting and all that pretension worse? Yet, many are guilty of the same... Pretending we are, when we are not. Rather than "agreeing to disagree", its more often "nodding to agree to avoid issues".

It got up to the stage where I turned a blind eye to everything and to let her learn by falling on her own. But, all that was not tenable, until everything broke down and. It was no longer about who is "right".

Its the same feeling I have. Does enduring and tolerating all this "nit nat" lead to anything constructive? We do not have many 2 years or 5 years to go. Enduring or tolerating for a life time isn't my idea of living. Put the "face" aside, what really is marriage and being together about? Its tragic sometimes that even marriage (in this part of asia) is about "face" in this day and age, and keeping it together is also about "face".

Perhaps, its also true that we may never really know someone because of the number of masks we wear. Sigh...
 
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miloice

Well-Known Member
You are really quick. You understand the issue.
Perhaps, its also true that we may never really know someone because of the number of masks we wear. Sigh...

Very true indeed. I can only say that I'm very fortunate because I found out what I really want and need early enough and focused growing it with the right person. She is really someone that will not plot against me with her own agenda. This is extremely important to me. With that, there is no need to hold back anything.
 
Very true indeed. I can only say that I'm very fortunate because I found out what I really want and need early enough and focused growing it with the right person. She is really someone that will not plot against me with her own agenda. This is extremely important to me. With that, there is no need to hold back anything.
Congrats!

Finding that right fit is tougher than finding the right person. There can be many right persons, but the right fit is far more uncommon. Marrying for convenience.... is also lagi more common than the right fit or match.
 

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