Correct answer to a tricky question..
- Thread starter little_ms_naughty
- Start date
sgbabydoll
Active Member
"If i were to lose my cool, (which i very much wanted to, if not for the fact that Hubb held me back) everyone else in the class will feel uncomfortable..."
You don't have to lose your cool when you engage a person. If I were you I will surely ask her to justify her rationale, but of course I wouldn't have answered her questions the same way as you did lah.
You don't have to lose your cool when you engage a person. If I were you I will surely ask her to justify her rationale, but of course I wouldn't have answered her questions the same way as you did lah.
sgbabydoll
Active Member
"sexual needs? so what they say about it? is ur church very open? or traditional?"
Perhaps talk about contraceptives?
Perhaps talk about contraceptives?
little_ms_naughty
New Member
they actually talk about respecting each other suxual wants & don't wan'ts, likes or don't likes...
Like for example, i may be uncomfortable in certain position, i can voice out to hb, so that we can maybe talk about it & come to a compromise, to make sex a very enjoyable experience.
This session was conducted by my Youth Pastor, who is married of course..
Like for example, i may be uncomfortable in certain position, i can voice out to hb, so that we can maybe talk about it & come to a compromise, to make sex a very enjoyable experience.
This session was conducted by my Youth Pastor, who is married of course..
From the Christian dimension to marriage, I think I know where the marriage counsellor is coming from.
Eg: HIV positive spouse (regardless of how he got it) takes forgiveness. Forgiveness is an act of love. God is love.
Eg: Decision-making. Husband and Wife are One. But it is not to say that you do not take your father's thoughts into consideration, although the ultimate decision makers are the two of you.
Her approach was probably not so right, and it sounds very drastic for a marriage counsellor to make such recommendations based on a mere couple of questions. Plus it is not up to her to judge. Anyway, why does the church only make you go for marriage counselling/prep 2 months beforehand? I am sure that they are experienced enough to know full well that it takes way longer than 2 months to prepare for marriage.
Sounds like this 'counselling session' isn't well prescribed.
Eg: HIV positive spouse (regardless of how he got it) takes forgiveness. Forgiveness is an act of love. God is love.
Eg: Decision-making. Husband and Wife are One. But it is not to say that you do not take your father's thoughts into consideration, although the ultimate decision makers are the two of you.
Her approach was probably not so right, and it sounds very drastic for a marriage counsellor to make such recommendations based on a mere couple of questions. Plus it is not up to her to judge. Anyway, why does the church only make you go for marriage counselling/prep 2 months beforehand? I am sure that they are experienced enough to know full well that it takes way longer than 2 months to prepare for marriage.
Sounds like this 'counselling session' isn't well prescribed.
little_ms_naughty
New Member
matka,
reason being because we just changed a new Pastor in Year 2010.
So boh bian...
Another couple wanted to get married in Jan initially, but had to postpone to Jul because of the Pastor change..
reason being because we just changed a new Pastor in Year 2010.
So boh bian...
Another couple wanted to get married in Jan initially, but had to postpone to Jul because of the Pastor change..
miloice
Well-Known Member
Matka, I would disagree on the forgiveness part. Forgiving someone isn't the same as accepting him/her.
If a marriage and relationship is broken by the acts, we can forgive them. But, it doesn't mean the marriage would continue. Forgiving isn't sweeping everything under the carpet and pretending that it didn't happen.
I wouldn't even need to go to grounds of divorce from adultery. Marriage and relationship is way more dynamic than some rules.
I find it ironic that the common perception over religion is always governed by rules and more rules. It contradict with the simple principle of love. If God is love, let it be not governed by political correct rules but what our heart and conscience tells us.
If a marriage and relationship is broken by the acts, we can forgive them. But, it doesn't mean the marriage would continue. Forgiving isn't sweeping everything under the carpet and pretending that it didn't happen.
I wouldn't even need to go to grounds of divorce from adultery. Marriage and relationship is way more dynamic than some rules.
I find it ironic that the common perception over religion is always governed by rules and more rules. It contradict with the simple principle of love. If God is love, let it be not governed by political correct rules but what our heart and conscience tells us.
Hi Milo,
Perhaps you've misread me.
I didn't say that divorce isn't impossible. A civil divorce is possible. Eventually it is hoped that you forgive the person - whether or not the marriage continues. This can happen after divorce.
Neither have I said that forgiveness is sweeping things under the carpet. There is beauty in forgiveness. It knowing what the error is, and being strong enough to overcome it so as to not let anger consume you.
Perhaps you've misread me.
I didn't say that divorce isn't impossible. A civil divorce is possible. Eventually it is hoped that you forgive the person - whether or not the marriage continues. This can happen after divorce.
Neither have I said that forgiveness is sweeping things under the carpet. There is beauty in forgiveness. It knowing what the error is, and being strong enough to overcome it so as to not let anger consume you.
sgbabydoll
Active Member
"A civil divorce is possible."
The way you have put it sounds like there is another type of divorce out there. Or are you trying to imply that a civil divorce is not an approved or ultimate divorce and will be frowned upon by the church and God?
The way you have put it sounds like there is another type of divorce out there. Or are you trying to imply that a civil divorce is not an approved or ultimate divorce and will be frowned upon by the church and God?
miloice
Well-Known Member
Matka, we are talking about the context of the TS here. The question isn't about forgiveness but whether she would remain in the marriage.
And your point of understanding where the counsellor is coming from on the Christian dimension to marriage is somehow inappropriate. no? The forgiveness and the decision to remain in the marriage are 2 different things altogether. It clearly shows how irrational and illogical she is. i.e. that failure to differentiate between the 2 says it all.
I did not misread you. Rather, you misread me. I disagree with using forgiveness to justify that one should remain in the marriage. You spoke of forgiveness in the context of the TS. How else can that be interpreted?
And your point of understanding where the counsellor is coming from on the Christian dimension to marriage is somehow inappropriate. no? The forgiveness and the decision to remain in the marriage are 2 different things altogether. It clearly shows how irrational and illogical she is. i.e. that failure to differentiate between the 2 says it all.
I did not misread you. Rather, you misread me. I disagree with using forgiveness to justify that one should remain in the marriage. You spoke of forgiveness in the context of the TS. How else can that be interpreted?
sgbabydoll
Active Member
"HIV positive spouse (regardless of how he got it) takes forgiveness"
If he/she got it through blood transfusion, does he/she need forgiveness in your opinion??
If he/she got it through blood transfusion, does he/she need forgiveness in your opinion??
Doll,
TS has voiced out to the counsellor that she if the HIV is due to cheating, so TS has created a context to her eventual response.
so the blood transfusion, even though is something that could happen in real life, is not applicable in TS context
in summary, the moral of this thread is that the counsellor is a moron here to give us a good laugh lah
TS has voiced out to the counsellor that she if the HIV is due to cheating, so TS has created a context to her eventual response.
so the blood transfusion, even though is something that could happen in real life, is not applicable in TS context
in summary, the moral of this thread is that the counsellor is a moron here to give us a good laugh lah
Milo, the point is we do not know what exactly the marriage counsellor was trying to put across when she posed these very questions to TS. We've only 'read' the questions, not the answers.
We do not know, for sure, if the marriage counsellor insists on TS to remain in the marriage should the hypothetical happen.
In all things, it is encouraged for couples to try to work out all trials and tribulations. If possible, forgiveness is love. If the couple can go beyond that, well and good. If they cannot, they can divorce.
But one day down the road, forgiveness can hopefully happen.
Aiyoh, I did not say that it is for sure in the context of TS lah... simply because we do not know what the marriage counsellor's purpose was. Like I said, these would be the principles under the Christian dimension.
(Disclaimer. I noticed that your post was edited after i posted mine)
Doll, well if it's blood transfusion then my personal opinion - no. I wrote it more with the general idea that it would probably be non-transfusion related.
Whatever the case, I suspect the counsellor did not take the correct approach.
We do not know, for sure, if the marriage counsellor insists on TS to remain in the marriage should the hypothetical happen.
In all things, it is encouraged for couples to try to work out all trials and tribulations. If possible, forgiveness is love. If the couple can go beyond that, well and good. If they cannot, they can divorce.
But one day down the road, forgiveness can hopefully happen.
Aiyoh, I did not say that it is for sure in the context of TS lah... simply because we do not know what the marriage counsellor's purpose was. Like I said, these would be the principles under the Christian dimension.
(Disclaimer. I noticed that your post was edited after i posted mine)
Doll, well if it's blood transfusion then my personal opinion - no. I wrote it more with the general idea that it would probably be non-transfusion related.
Whatever the case, I suspect the counsellor did not take the correct approach.
cococherry
New Member
is she having her menopause? Maybe she's feeling emo
miloice
Well-Known Member
matka, yah, that actually brings back to my very 1st reply here. Either TS did not understand and interpret the counsellor message or the counsellor is truly an idiot.
In the context described by the TS, the counsellor is an up-tight ass.
Regardless, its not about forgiveness but whether TS have understand the counsellor's questions and intentions.
In the context described by the TS, the counsellor is an up-tight ass.
Regardless, its not about forgiveness but whether TS have understand the counsellor's questions and intentions.
sgbabydoll
Active Member
Matka, can you explain what you meant by this instead - "Civil divorce is possible".
Hi Doll, Civil as in legal divorce by the state. I am Catholic, so personally, I have to qualify the term because there is also Canon Law. I do not know the teachings of the non-Catholic Christian churches because they may differ in teachings.
This is not to say that divorce and remarriage is impossible. I do have good friends, who are Catholic, who have divorced and remarried under the blessings of the Church. They also serve actively in Church. Every relationship is different and depends largely on the situation.
I am not here to impose my beliefs on anyone. So if you would like to know more, feel free to PM me. I will try to provide 'answers' where I can.
This is not to say that divorce and remarriage is impossible. I do have good friends, who are Catholic, who have divorced and remarried under the blessings of the Church. They also serve actively in Church. Every relationship is different and depends largely on the situation.
I am not here to impose my beliefs on anyone. So if you would like to know more, feel free to PM me. I will try to provide 'answers' where I can.
sgbabydoll
Active Member
Oh, OK. Now I remember that Catholics have a practice of annuling marriage after legal divorce.
little_ms_naughty
New Member
thanks for all the advices here..
i will stay with him IF the HIV was transmitted thru blood transfusion.
By the way how can i know if its thru blood transfusion or not? Hope someone can enlighten me.. thanks in advance.
I've asked my parents & my elder sister whom is married with a son the same question, & needless to say, they were equally stumped, & even suspected if i was playing a joke on them..
my sister told me that her pre-martial couselling was not like that one.. (we attend counselling sessions in the same church, but hers was conducted by the previous Pastor herself)
when i told them, no, they replied that they ain't sure how they would react, but most probably will file for divorce.
i think this would be the normal reaction of anyone here...
I won't be so noble to accept my spouse cheating on me, worst still, catching HIV...
i will stay with him IF the HIV was transmitted thru blood transfusion.
By the way how can i know if its thru blood transfusion or not? Hope someone can enlighten me.. thanks in advance.
I've asked my parents & my elder sister whom is married with a son the same question, & needless to say, they were equally stumped, & even suspected if i was playing a joke on them..
my sister told me that her pre-martial couselling was not like that one.. (we attend counselling sessions in the same church, but hers was conducted by the previous Pastor herself)
when i told them, no, they replied that they ain't sure how they would react, but most probably will file for divorce.
i think this would be the normal reaction of anyone here...
I won't be so noble to accept my spouse cheating on me, worst still, catching HIV...
Not my normal reaction. So don't use your yardstick to measure other people.
If being ask the same question, my answer will be that I will hold on to the marriage - regardless of the cause of the HIV infection.
It is not what you think the majority of people that will react that is important. It is how you see it.
There is nothing noble in it. It is just what we believe in marriage. Yes, there are people who betrayed their spouses - but it is not something that cannot be forgiven. It is not a deal-breaker for me. If the marriage can be repaired and make stronger - why not?
I am not saying that the counsellor is right. She is an ass. But just don't assume that there is a "right" answer that everyone should be giving the same.
If being ask the same question, my answer will be that I will hold on to the marriage - regardless of the cause of the HIV infection.
It is not what you think the majority of people that will react that is important. It is how you see it.
There is nothing noble in it. It is just what we believe in marriage. Yes, there are people who betrayed their spouses - but it is not something that cannot be forgiven. It is not a deal-breaker for me. If the marriage can be repaired and make stronger - why not?
I am not saying that the counsellor is right. She is an ass. But just don't assume that there is a "right" answer that everyone should be giving the same.
little_ms_naughty
New Member
sm,
precisely.. there is no right or wrong answer to this question.
precisely.. there is no right or wrong answer to this question.
the_giving_tree
New Member
To thread starter, if what you've said is true, then this so called marriage counsellor had broken all the tenets of counselling: Counselling is not about giving advice (like that anyone can be a counsellor!), forcing your ideas on another person and worse, breaching confidentiality!
If I were you, I will give feedback to the church elders and make sure this so-called counsellor is taken off marriage counselling until she has undergone proper training and a personality test! Unless, of course, the church elders are as ignorant as she is on what marriage counselling is supposed to be!
This kind of misguided counselling can have serious consequences. Can you imagine if it's a marital counselling and after the session, the poor wife/hubby is even more depressed and suicidal? What will be the consequences? Who will be held responsible?
If I were you, I will give feedback to the church elders and make sure this so-called counsellor is taken off marriage counselling until she has undergone proper training and a personality test! Unless, of course, the church elders are as ignorant as she is on what marriage counselling is supposed to be!
This kind of misguided counselling can have serious consequences. Can you imagine if it's a marital counselling and after the session, the poor wife/hubby is even more depressed and suicidal? What will be the consequences? Who will be held responsible?
i thought marriage counselling is to help couples to make the right choice. after the counselling, whether they want to get married or wait or break up, the decision is up to the couple.
i didn't know preachers doing the counselling can actually try to halt the marriage plans. this thread is really an eye-opener for me.
i didn't know preachers doing the counselling can actually try to halt the marriage plans. this thread is really an eye-opener for me.
the_giving_tree
New Member
Ajumma, not all marriage counselling sessions in church are like that. My experience was a positive one and that was 18 years ago in a Catholic church. Each group of 6-8 couples has a married couple who served as the group's mentor throughout the marriage preparation course, which took about 1 year. Up till today, we still keep in touch with the couple who mentored our group.
I remember there was one couple in my group who decided to postpone their wedding, not because the mentors forced them, but because the sessions had opened up their eyes to issues they had not thought about before as a couple.
I remember there was one couple in my group who decided to postpone their wedding, not because the mentors forced them, but because the sessions had opened up their eyes to issues they had not thought about before as a couple.
