Onzz, fly is a motion on a machine also lar.its both hand arch twds each other lor..wat u describing is called incline dumbell lar..also can lar, but no bar bell is not use lor..wanna really build chest must use tat..must do 3 styles, train ur upper, middle n lower chest..hehe
as for shoulder, sit upright, den stretch upwards with dumb bells on each hand..