RE : Questions for guys

hi bro,

actually, my point is really that there is really no one benchmark as 20%. What's important isn't the measurement that each part fits nicely 20%. But rather, we need to maintain an healthy balance in our lives. All these continues to be done with mutual respect by the couple.

Its pointless if I feel great that I have a fantastic balance of nicely 20% on each aspect when I'm actually closer to 0% in view of my spouse.
 


Doll,

I don't see that as feeding her insecurity. Instead, I recognize her insecurity and use ways to help her learn to let go of the fears and insecurity.

Again, its not a battle of 'correctness'. Yes, she is insecure? What are you going to do? Blame her for it? OR just expect her to naturally know how to cope with it herself?

I believe the trust my wife places in me today is partly due to the so-called 'feeding her insecurity'. I don't feed her. I reassure her that there is nothing absolutely to worry about what goes on with my gatherings. When a partner is having a insecurity issue, it is a problem for the relationship. Not a issue only for the person with the insecurity problem only. The solution is normally through team work. Not by individual effort alone.
 
I share Powder's view in terms of the concept. Post-divorce, I did alot of thinking and exploring, and felt that there are five important aspects to my life:
- Work
- Myself
- Family and pets
- Friends collectively; and
- Bf

Not in order of priority or importance except for "Bf" because this is one aspect I could trade off. I could and would want to function normally with or without a bf.
 
tat's extreme lah... 0% on spouse... might as well dun have.

i'm saying if u look at it objectively, it's gonna be 20%x5 for me. of cos some have 50% spoure some 90%...

the complication comes in when your spouse gives u 90% of her time, and u've only got 30% time for her...

alot og guys give 90% during courtship, and 30% after courtship. i dun... that's wat i'm saying... i dun change myself just cos i have a romantic interest.... the rest of the aspects have been there wayyyyyy before the girl came along.
 
Doll,

i think most times, most of us tend to forget that the Other aspects were there Before we met our partners... and when partners come along - we make them our priority and expect the Other aspects to take a backseat and understand us...

i dun fall under the "most" category cos i dun forget the other aspects when i fall 'madly in love'.. i dun forget work nor frens nor lose sleep. i guess for that same reason, i'm not the romantic. my focus on every aspect remains constant and daily... u won't see me disappear as a fren just cos i got a new gfren...

so the whole 'focus' thing... i dun buy it. i see some ladies focus until dun know go where liao... i only know they never come back until they kena ditched. Tell me if i'm wrong, but this is a common behaviour.

http://www.singaporebrides.com/cgi-bin/forumboard/show.cgi?5/1075758
 
well... there are all kinds of people in this world. Do we all have the same spread for happiness? What advise do you have for people that do not share the same priority and values?

At the end of the day, as long as they are able to remain happy, who are we to say anything? I see my own brother being sucked into his marriage leaving no time for anything except his work and marriage. In a way, I 'lost a brother'.

I would agree its probably unhealthy in yours and my pov. But, as long as he is happy with his life, why can I really say?
 
I've come to think about the issue on controlling. My gf checks on her bf's msn, facebook/friendster, HP etc. The guy is ok and stay faithful although I don't know if he is really ok with her doing tt though.

On the other hand, I do not check my hubby's mobile or any of his friends etc because I used to believe is mutual trust and respect. Only when I wanted to save a document once and I chanced upon a folder which consisted of our msn conversations. Den I realized tt he is cheating on me. After that incident, I am very tempted to check on him, but the laziness in me cannot be bothered anymore cos I feel if someone meants to betray another party, they will still do it but wipe their a** clean after the deed. Like now how he delete all msn history from his PC now cos he worried that I'll go and "check" on him which I don't and I never even add him in facebook because I kinda lose hope in e marriage and staying on for the sake of the baby.

So End of the day, it's no longer about how the partner tries to protect the relationship by checking but more on wat kinda person you are with that matters.
 
milo,

dun get lost in the idea... the whole point is abt finding a Match from offset...

if u're a 30% for gfren person, then find a girl who is of similar percentage. if u're a 90% person, then same find a 90% person.

i stated the 20% not as a Rule for all, but as a rule for myself, and how it is something i maintain... without pretending that i give 90% to gfren just becos i'm courting her.

your brother & wife giving 90% to each other is a good match. they are happy, and i'm not saying anything... my post started with stuv55 and the girl he's seeing, isn't it?
 
Half agree. Compatibility is clearly very important. But, I don't think its always possible to find the perfect combination + chemistry etc. There are always trade off somewhere.

I am actually advising on how one can bridge the gap in the differences. Honestly, do you think most insecure people really know what that want? Do they really need and want to control their spouses all of the time. Mostly, they felt compelled to do so, having this subconscious fear and mentality that this is absolutely required to keep the relationship.

Personally, my wife started very much as a 80% person. I would say, we have adapted to a 40-50% now. While I gave her like 70-80% during early days of courtship, but I have guided to allow her to develop her away from this extreme. To expect her to become 20% would probably be unreal. But, its definitely possible to work out a win-win situation if both parties are committed to work things without dragging all the emotions into the issues.
 
Milo, trying to strike a balance in these five aspects of life doesn't mean I don't allow deviation by a few percentage points (this is figure of speech; don't take the percentages literally). It is a guideline for myself and having this guideline I don't allow anyone to tell me he should be treated more importantly than the other four aspects.

At some point, one or two aspects may have to take a backseat for a little while due to changing situations. For example, if my mom is seriously ill, I will apply leave to be with her at the hospital. Or if I have a work crisis to manage on a Sunday, I would have to stay home instead of joining my family for dinner or go for my Sunday exercise. Family or ME time would have to wait till next Sunday. So, these five aspects are equally important to me. That is why I always have time for all these people and activities. And having understanding family and bf help alot as they give me peace to do what I have to do away from them.
 
Reminds me of a joke when my wife and I just got together. We met up rather often at the begining of the relationship. Till it was like an SOP for us to meet up and the both of us were rather irky about meeting up.

She thought I no Life. I thought she no Life. Then one day we juz thrashed it out, laughed over it and proceed to find our own balance in life haha.

I just find it quite difficult to live a happy person but concentrating in only one aspect and leaving out the rest. Got an interesting email today. I try to see if I can dig it out and post it next.
 
milo,

instead of justifying, i would simply not date the insecure ones right? i dun allow myself to take another step further... i have no time, no energy, and unbothered to bring this whole insecurity on myself by dating then marrying one. that's all i'm saying... there's no trade-off for me at all.

it's a Big Minus that will hinder my career, my frens, my family, my goals, my dreams and basically it'll Hinder me. so i dun even start. compromise and work all u want becos u really like this girl... i like a girl i Dun Need to be with her... i Dun Need to marry her... i'll just keep her as a fren cos the insecurity will not hinder me as a fren, but it'll Paralyse me as a bfre/hubby.

but i dun aim to cheat... dun have time for dating, won't make time for dating, won't tell her she's my Everything, won't tell her she's my life... no singular person can take up such a huge chunk. and i'm blatantly honest on this... nobody gets to check my handphone to feed their insecurities, neither do i surrender my phone for checks... i dun have to invite her to check out my frens nor should my fren have to be subjected to my gfren/wife's approval.

nobody has the right to approve/disapprove of my frens nor my family or life choices. no girl should do that to me and i will not allow myself to be subjected to giving up my initial 4 aspects for this girl.

dun be fooled, i'm a pretty good husband/father... i just dun fit into the kind of husband/father that most pple consider as good.

most pple equate giving time to giving love... i think that's Lazy pple using family to avoid making something better of themselves and hiding behind being a good hubby/father.

i'll just put it in a simple way... if my wife becomes an invalid... i can quit my job to feed her, cloth her, take care of her, house her, and still be able to take care of our children... and do so for the rest of my life. i won't even blame God, blame heavens nor go into modes of self-pity... i'll just get on with it, and take care of my wife for as long as both of us shall live... and my frens, family will be there to help me becos i've always been there to help them. my career will give me the financial ability, the rest of the Aspects all come into play in the most difficult times...

most guys can't cos they dun expect difficult times beyond the norm.
 
Milo: "well... there are all kinds of people in this world. Do we all have the same spread for happiness? What advise do you have for people that do not share the same priority and values?

At the end of the day, as long as they are able to remain happy, who are we to say anything? I see my own brother being sucked into his marriage leaving no time for anything except his work and marriage. In a way, I 'lost a brother'.

I would agree its probably unhealthy in yours and my pov. But, as long as he is happy with his life, why can I really say?"

Well, if one party is happy feeding the insecurity and proving fidelity, while the other party is happy being fed and assured of fidelity, by all means. But Stuv and DoubtGuy did not seem elated at all, can't you tell?

Tolerating it or resigning to fate is not the same as being happy about it.
 
hi bro,

yes. we can go just that. Nothing wrong or right about that. I don't believe there is no trade off is really that possible.

There is always some form of trade off. Maybe not in the area but in other aspects simple because we have unlimited needs and requirements and no one can be perfect for everyone.

For sure, there are people that would excuse and use family as reasons to avoid meet ups and other commitments. But, that's not what we are talking about here right? Its about guys that are married to insecure women. What can they do?

To me, there are only a few options:-
1) be a yes man. Do everything to please her.
2) be understanding and patient chap to guide and grow her.
3) Dump her.

you spoke about options 1 & 3. I spoke of 2.
 
doll,

its different when one gives in with control and feedback vs someone that mindlessly just give up and do what they want.

I believe in not fighting the person but 1st giving them what they want for them to feel more at ease and then influencing them. At the end, if the person continues the behavior, then, we need to reflect. Did we really feed their insecurity aimlessly or is the person really stubborn and refusing to grow up.

When we give in, we can quantify it for something or just choose to be taken for granted. See the difference? This is what I'm trying to put across all the long. TS is clearly being taken for granted because he set the wrong expectation for her. That's the key. And not because of things he does to reassure her. You are focused on simply the act of reassuring her -> feeding her insecurity. The right level of assurance is needed for anyone. The more insecure, the more tricky it is to handle.

You need to use the correct communication channel when coping with an insecure mate. You don't assume the partner to suddenly just grow out of her insecurity issues. Its back to 3 options, lost yourself completely, be patient and progressively guide her or dump her.
 
doll, I would like to repeat one thing.

"Honestly, do you think most insecure people really know what that want? Do they really need and want to control their spouses all of the time. Mostly, they felt compelled to do so, having this subconscious fear and mentality that this is absolutely required to keep the relationship."

I don't really believe all insecure people are 90 or 100% folks and will always remain constantly like this. If they meet the right partner to guide them to let go of their insecurities OR they reflect and learn from it themselves, they can have fulfilling relationships without the need to be remain insecure and fearful. The question to the TS and other guys out there, are you willing to be this patient guy? It can be so tough but its possible. You have to look at your unique situation and figure out for yourself... IS THIS WHAT YOU WHAT?
 
milo, i spoke abt 4) dun date her anymore.

dun think u should look at it from a married pov since the advice is to the unmarried and free-to-date.

if stuv was in your shoes i'll go with 2), then 3) if matters cannot be resolved and it gets worse til it paralyses him.

of cos he's free to do the 'guide & grow' part... remembering that it does not necessarily bear fruit. after 3yrs, after 5yrs, after 10yrs... it might get tiring and ending it there will not be very wonderful either. so maybe better not date in the first place, and place an end to the whole ordeal.
 
by the way, all these guide and grow is Very nice and attractive to the average person hearing it...

it's easy to agree without thinking becos it sounds politically correct.
 
powder,

nice and attractive? I don't think so lah. Its a difficult situation that is all so common. To go on with the relationship or not. And struggling to make it work.

But I agree with you, mostly, we go from 2 then 3.

4 is pretty the same as 3. You probably need to date someone for sometime to know really how insecure she is. Everyone would like to portray themselves as understanding gfs. So, 1st impression is hard to tell.
 
I'm with Powder - don't date the person who feels insecure with me. I have my insecurity and one way I manage it is by not dating persons who make me feel insecure nor persons who want to feed me my insecurity growing it bigger.
 
"I don't fancy playing the nurturing role in relationship"

that really is the key. We need to ask if we WANT and FANCY this nurturing role. Often, its the other way, women taking the nurturing role to mother their husbands.
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For me, I do enjoy this growing thing together with my wife.

By hor,,, I'm not some addict to paranoid women. Its different level of insecurity altogether!
 
"I'm not some addict to paranoid women" - Well, maybe this way you feel needed and feel secure being needed. Maybe, just maybe, you are the insecure one instead haha
 
milo,

definitely different... your 3) has a negative connotation to it... the option itself sounds 'ugly'. the use of the word itself reflects your apprehension to the choice... it's one of those subconscious things...

if u look at the 3 choices u put. only 2) sounds nice... the other two options u gave sounded ugly... and a natural response to the 3 option is the one that made us sound least ugly...

pls dun tell me i read too much into it hor... becos the presentation of the 3 options reflect the one u'd want most pple to agree with - 2). it's one of those things which unless u study words and the effects on the mind, u might not understand the negative/positive vibes they give.

option 1) makes the guy sound like a wimp and henpecked... there's an aversion to agreeing to this.

option 3) makes a guy sound heartless, also aversion.

therefore leaving option 2) which makes a person sound human, nice, and good.

read your post and ask yourself how u see it as a neutral.

so i respectfully stick to 4) dun date her anymore.

dun need to date very long unless u're not as observant, or u're so much in cloud nine that the signs can be in your face but u dun see them. dun have to be a couple so soon... take time. keep threading the lines as frens... then decide if u wanna be more than frens. as frens u'll know liao...
 
"Honestly, do you think most insecure people really know what that want? Do they really need and want to control their spouses all of the time. Mostly, they felt compelled to do so, having this subconscious fear and mentality that this is absolutely required to keep the relationship."

Milo, Milo, not knowing one is insecure or paranoid doesn't make one less insecure or paranoid lor. You can justify it but it is still insecurity.

"I don't really believe all insecure people are 90 or 100% folks and will always remain constantly like this. If they meet the right partner to guide them to let go of their insecurities OR they reflect and learn from it themselves, they can have fulfilling relationships without the need to be remain insecure and fearful. The question to the TS and other guys out there, are you willing to be this patient guy? It can be so tough but its possible. You have to look at your unique situation and figure out for yourself... IS THIS WHAT YOU WHAT?"

I can only say you're patient to the extent of being magnanimous. Insecurity is an addiction. It grows if you justify it, feed it. I don't feed others their insecurity. I don't want others to feed me my insecurity. Having said that, it means we really need to choose carefully who we date.

Anyway, if I date an insecure guy, it may mean I have to scale back on my commitment to the other four aspects of my life. This will make me unhappy. No way. I will walk out of the door myself.
 
A fren of mine made this v interesting comment abt MOST S'pore gals: that they are control freaks.

He defines it as "They like to know that everything is under their control and that includes their bfs and hbs."

In a certain way, I do agree with him. But to control to the extend of giving absolutely no freedom whatsoever to the bf/hb, then I think it's too stressful for both parties...

Sometimes knowing less is better than knowing too much..
 
doll,
in a way yes. I don't denial my need to feel important to my partner. it can be a way of insecurity.
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"I can only say you're patient to the extent of being magnanimous".

I have never seen myself as being maganimous. My personal upbringing and life experience exposed me to a lifetime with a paranoid mother. I also realize what I want and can accept & tolerate. I will defintely not want to marry someone like my mother.
 
powder,

i gotta disagree with the suggestion that
"becos the presentation of the 3 options reflect the one u'd want most pple to agree with - 2)"

1) refers to individuals that are okie and compatible with the needs. As you put it yourself earlier. i.e. a 90% chap that would perfectly fit the bill. So, u see, it might not be as negative. To me, it will be negative when there is a disparity and the chap just endure and give in to avoid the trouble as in the TS scenario. This is because he is simply feeding her the wrong signals and not guiding. That, in fact, is the common LAZY choice that guys takes!
3) and 4) are effectively the same. Not dating her anymore and dumping her. Got diff meh?

Its so easy to say, oh its easy to detect an insecure gal blah blah blah. It is probably true for some cases but not generically so. Neither of us are saying there is only one option, while u spoke about only 1 and 3, I'm saying there is still option 2.

Everyone likes to be the nice guy but we all know we cannot always be the nice guy all the time. Each of the 3 decisions comes with different consequences.

None of the options can be generically applied across all usecases. So, to say I want others to agree with 2? I disagree. Most of us did walk paths with at least 2 of the options. There are those like yourself and Doll that would stick with 3. And those like TS that went on 1 and now considering 3. Not one is generically more ideal. We all have to think of the options and decide for ourselves to be happy with our unique needs and traits.
 
yes there's alot of differences... presentation & the powers of suggestion, subconsciously or otherwise. u see it everywhere... from sale prices using $89.99 instead of $90... from lucky draws and promotions... u might not be so aware of it yourself. It's like when a girl ask u "do u dun wanna meet me?" as opposed to "are u free to meet me?"... u might think it's the same, but a girl who phrases it "do u wanna meet me?" is more likely to feel offended if u can't meet her. and your answer if it's "No", the 1st question will put u in a more negative light.

if u look at it, both 1) and 3) have a negative connotation to it. option 2) doesn't. giving 3 options where 2 are negative, and 1 is positive - will suggest your subconscious inclination. u might disagree, but u search yourself deeper u will know your answer.

if not dating a person anymore, and dumping her is the same to u, then definitely we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
"doll, in a way yes. I don't denial my need to feel important to my partner. it can be a way of insecurity."

Milo, would you feel useless or even invalid if one day you are less needed or not needed in some aspects by wife? On the same note, those people who need constant reassurance from the partner may one day find they receive reassurance no more. It could happen. It would happen I think. What would happen to the relationship or marriage?
 
Hi Powder,

about the negative vs positive connotation. u have a point. But it wasn't the intention. Especially on point 3.

Doll,

to some level yes. I experience the 'extra' and 'not needed' feeling in my previous relationship. It was very hard to sustain any motivation. In that aspect, I'm clear what keeps me happy. I don't need her to physically needing my presence all the time. But its good to feel important and missed by our loved ones. Many of us do have this need to be needed and loved this way, just to a different extend. No one can fulfill and cope with all needs of our partners. It takes maturity to adapt to the situation.

E.g. if I'm handicap or something, it will definitely be a rough patch. But whether the relationship can survive depends not just on fulfilling needs.
 
Milo, we don't need to go into extreme situations of one party becoming handicapped or terminally ill. Such trying situations are often beyond the strongest of souls. Just a change of job or meeting new friends could subject the relationship or marriage to turmoil. Then the people in such relationship start to ask how come relationship is so fragile. Kind of ironic to me.

If they care to admit, insecure people do not feel good about themselves above all else, and they shift the focus to or fix the blame in their partner pinpointing behaviours that stir up their insecurity. How to manage insecurity is not to manage your partner's movement or life, but to look within yourself.
 
hi doll,

I gotta disagree to a certain degree. No doubt one's responsibility in managing their own insecurity is clear. That doesn't mean no one deserves a relationship simply because of their insecurity issues and it also doesn't mean everyone is capable to cope with their issues by themselves. What kind of relationship is it if we expect to completely function separately still? It is not a weakness to have needs. We all have different needs, be it emotional or physical.

The point is emotions and insecurity are pretty much like waves. Just as how a woman doesn't appreciate or need the best and most rationale and logical advise when they are emotionally unstable. Often, all they need is a hug or listening ear to get over. The purpose of assuring an insecure person isn't to feed them or encourage the activity. Rather, it is to bring the person back into their rational and comfortable state so that self-reflection and feedback can happen.

What I'm talking here is not something easy to do nor the only humane idea. Its a damn tough thing to do but I truly believe it works. Just as how a teacher can influence and motivate his/her students. If we are sincere to help the one we really love, someone we choose to accept... that means understanding and clearly knowing them their flaws (including insecurity), then we need to know also what it takes.

Lastly, blaming isn't unique to insecure people. We are all responsible for it. This include spouses of insecure people. They blame everything to the insecurity but not on how they responded to it too. This blaming game is useless not just for the insecure party. Learning to manage one insecurity isn't going happen just like in one hour or day. We hear this so often... it her issue, so I expect her to manage it. IS THAT EVEN HER HUSBAND? Face it, we have needs. There will be times, we need the understanding and support from our loved ones. We don't function as an island. Asking the husband to be understanding to his wife's insecurity doesn't make his responsible for her issues.
 
if i may say so milo - that's all very nice and correct in the most rightful of ways... but i guess u might be envisioning insecure pple in their reasonable states, when u say what u say...

let's not forget that often, the very insecure ones make unreasonable requests and impose their warped sense of ideals/principles on others... (the type that make u pull hair and go arrrghhh)

- gfrens restricting contact with other girls may be acceptable when u're doing all u can to woo the girl, 5-6yrs down the road u find your only female contacts are mum and wife.

- gfrens checking on your handphone/emails/facebook insisting it's their right, using 'couples should not hide anything' as a lame argument.

- MILs making a nuisance of themselves and causing multitudes of distress to DILs from wedding, to customs, to housing, to reno etc... Whilst i may encourage patience, i'm gonna also recognise that some MILs might be incorrigible and it's better to stay away from them.

just on the 3 abv, a hug or listening ear is futile, although pleasing to know that u're gonna try. end result is often futile.

perhaps u're linking too much to your own scenario where u're ok with things, but u must be fair to note if your wife falls under the overbearing unreasonable sort... if she doesn't, then touching on your own experience might only be the tip of the iceberg.

dude, yes we have needs... but remember we have 'dun needs' as well... and i'll just say that we DUN NEED to go thru loads of shite all for the sake of some matyrdom syndrome... some pple are masochistic - they enjoy suffering in relationships becos Only Then do they feel like they're actually loving... it's a sick form of love...

Love is defined on the concept of freedom, choice, respect... not on the concept of restricting, forced choices, and replacing the word 'fear' with something more decent sounding like 'respect'.

those who truly understand what marriage is - will treat their Vows as a choice they willingly pick time and again.

those who dun - let the vows restrict them and are in a 'no choice - i'm married' state.
 
hi powder,

do we look at the unreasonable behavior and place a condemnation or judgement or do we try to understand the reasons behind these behaviors?

It is not common to have unreasonable parents or in laws. What do we do? Do we simply give in to the demands? Simply giving in is the lazy way that doesn't address the root of the issue.

I cannot emphasize enough. IF ONE WANTS TO STAY IN THE RELATIONSHIP WITH AN INSECURE PERSON, then he must learn to take on this guiding role. He cannot be lazy. And of cos, as you have said many times, to give up the relationship. All these are choices. I have never disagree that this is an option. I'm speaking about the scenario when one wants to remain in the marriage, then we should be looking at how to positively improve the situation right?
 
I don't understand why u keep saying its nice and most rightful ways. It isn't. But, its probably the only way to deal with an insecure partner if they want to savage the relationship. It has nothing to do with being political correct at all.
 
milo,

i dun condemn. i make a judgment and decide i have no time for THIS particular lady in a longterm relationship, and i simply stop dating. i can' understand her and a fren, i dun need to go into a relationship and be a lifetime counsellor... i simply have no time.

And if i make the decision not to be in a relationship, it doesn't make me a Bad person. pls look at the rhetoric u throw me in the 1st sentence, it seems to flavour an oppsoing behaviour in a negative light. Remember the Option 1), 2), 3)? now u have made it 1) place a condemnation, 2) place a condemnation judgement, 3) try to understand the reasons behind these behaviors.

the powers of suggestion right? option 3) being the most reasonable, the sentence seem to SUGGESTS something which i am not encouraging in the first place.

- i'm saying not to be with the insecure ones... u're saying how to improve the situation IF u stay.

- mine is a Don't, yours is a How.

- mine is a decision, yours is a try.

Dude, if i wanted to "stay in the relationship with an insecure person", of cos there's gonna be effort. my whole point is i dun wanna take away Alot of my time away from the Other Aspects of my life... u know, the other 80%?

look, i'm the person with the 20+20+20+20+20... doing wat u do will make it 80+5+5+5+5. u get what i mean? If u can't be certain how long u're gonna be going on 80% of your time/effort on wife, then how do u Make that decision to have the Others REDUCED to 5% for unknown, unguaranteeed periods?

if i do that, doesn't that make me the very person i Hate to be? which is why from the start, i said to stop dating.

so let's summarize... ME = Stop Dating. U = Keep Trying If u wanna Stay.

in the first place, u should not doubt that i stop dating becos i Dun have the ability to try. it's just that i dun have the time. my priorities in life isn't abt Ladies, it never, it is therefore a Decision not to stay, and not - not to try.

just becos i say not to try, does not make me a lesser person. and staying does not make u a great person either... some pple have a High matyrdom syndrome and are suckers for pain, drama and lotsa time spent on relationships... i'm not such a person. i simply go for one that fits into my life of Balanced priorities.
 
milo, it has everything to do with being politically correct.

i dun believe in spending time salvaging relationships... it either Is, or it Isn't. i believe in being a good match from the start. and not keep trying just becos u started something.

why i say it's nice and all that is becos grils LOVE this kind of effort and attention, and they wanna see u try this way so that they feel u're sweet and this and that. they'll be touched blah blah...

basically, girls like it. and u're doing what they like.

for me i dun entertain. i go for the girls who dun need this aspect.
 
"i dun believe in spending time salvaging relationships... it either Is, or it Isn't"

I disagree, this is because to me, a relationship is built upon the many things the couple share and undergo together. If we do not put in the commitment and effort, no relationship can last. Sparks needs to be recreated, that comes with effort, its not the same as the kind of sparks in initial relationships.
 
bro,

u Building or u Salvaging? building is fine, having to constantly salvage - isn't. it's Tiring, and takes time away from the Other Aspects... (i think i've been repeating the importance of Other Aspects too many times) it's been my stand. far too many pple spend Wayyyyy too much time choosing wrong partners, and spending a large portion of their time and effort in salvaging - the very word u were using. WHY? if the relationship was a healthy one from offset, u hardly need to salvage Unless u screw it up with an affair or something really deeply hurting.

See the relationship and where it's likely to go, anticipate and foresee a lifetime with an insecure person who lacks Reason... and decide there and then to End the relationship.

difference between us is that i Really dun wanna spend time in a Wrong match, with the Wrong person, and waste alot of time becos i brought the decision upon myself. (an insecure or unreasonable person is Wrong Match to me). i think it's Great that u have so much patience and wanna put in so much effort, i just dun see myself having a more fruitful life if i were to take that path.

trust me, most girls Dig the kind of thoughts u're having. i simply have no time for this kind of relationship, so it's a conscious choice i make to Not date insecure gals. Mind u, i still meet wonderful girls, and i believe i shorten alot of unnecessary paths pple normally take in relationships.

u have alot of time for Other Aspects? being successful in marriage(wife), are u as successful in family, frens, career, helping Others/Charity? if u are, i salute u... However if u are not, then thereoin lies our difference... it's not that i dun understand the effort u talk abt putting in, it's just that i dun believe in it.

my Divided Focus in Other aspects allows me to give over 30k/yr for family support, 20k/yr to Charity ie distributing rice/building shelters and sponsoring needy tertiary students to pursue their studies + give them pocket money; Ensure my Career is secure enough for me to continue to do these things; Motivate frens who may have fallen behind on their Life... Besides Simply - my relationship with wife.

the Other Aspects need my intervention to improve their quality of life. i have NO TIME for insecure needy women. my time is really better spent elsewhere, where the fruits are much more meaningful. choosing the right gfren/wife has made it even more possible for me to achieve non-relationship aspects.

u can tell me all the endearing things we should do in a relationship... i dun need to get started on the need to help the poor and the next generation of children who are deprived of studies despite being bright. nor the finances we have to build for our aging parents, relatives, and the occasional money set aside to help the children of our relatives in their education and upbringing.

if u dun get involved in the Other Aspects which i have prioritised into my life before i even got into a relationship, u will not understand what i mean by "I Have No Time".

When u disagree, isit becos u have alot of time for wife?

i'll just put it clear and simple to u. my wife is not the most impt person in my life... neither is my daughter nor mum. no-one is. i dun accord importance to ANY SINGLE ONE PERSON. the world as a whole is more impt to me and that's just the way i function. the women who love me Will understand this part of me... without it, i am Nothing, i am not me.

ps: i look up to philanthropists, not korean drama characters who spend all their time in love.
 
Whether to find a "right match" at the outset or to work on the relationship harder - I don't think there is a single recipe for success.

Anyway, There is no certainty in life. Whatever we choose, we just have to work on it to make the most out of it..
 
well i can definitely accept that. if we chose - we work on it, if we figure we can't afford that much time and effort to work on it - we choose not to continue.

i'm pretty sure we all can eventually rough it out to come out tops in relationships... i'm just not so sure everyone is that keen to spend their entire lives constantly working on it... just like we dun wanna spend our entire lives constantly slogging at work.

remember all these can come to nought. at the end of it u might just get everyone Feeling that u did your best, and u deserve better. But is that really good enough for us in life? - simply for others to recognise our efforts, and not have things materialise? and perhaps wasting a large portion of time & life chasing for this?
 
powder,

Yes, if we realize that we can no longer work on something - that it should be time to let go and move on - I guess this is the difficult part for most people to recognize.

The most important thing is while we are at it - we have to be happy doing it - if we are slogging and complanining all the time - it is a signal to us.

Like working.. some may thing it is slogging.. for others it is an enjoyment day-in day-out.. depends on what you choose to do and how you approach it..
 
that's true... Choice is important, there's 2 things i dun wanna make mistakes in choosing... 1 is wife, 1 is career. cos making a wrong choice takes away a large chunk of our time... and even life.

there's pple who slog, and pple who dun... whichever we choose, the rewards must be there and meet our basic requisites... else no reason to choose the job. that same applies in partners...
 
hi bro,

I disagree NOT because how much time I personally spend in my own family. But, I don't expect my marriage to be all smooth. In other threads, I did spoke of why my wife is such a gem for me. The only trade-of for me is really her clingy nature which is due to upbringing + personality. For the 8 yrs of relationship, it is not a painful fight. Our struggles are mainly in the initial part of adapting to each other. We learn to influence each other positively, that is WIN-WIN. In any marriage, there will be issues. Insecurity is just one of the possible issues. Whatever issue, we need to use the right channel to be effective. Until a time we find it unfeasible and unproductive, one should be looking at how to positively improve it.

Because I know what make me or her happy. I will give up the marriage if I know or learn that we are better off apart. Its simple to say, we should move on when the marriage is no longer working. But, is there one single way to quantify that? I'm afraid not. That realization doesn't come just like that. In the same way, we need to go through enough in relationships and self-reflect to understand what we want and don't want. When her siblings came to visit us for short stays, they thanked me on how I had transform my wife to an independent and mature lady.

You cannot just expect a fresh grad or teen to have his life worked out. This applies with relationships too. You can call it building or savage, its actually a walk to discover ourselves.

Lastly, I have never disagree the need to balance in our lives. All I said is simple IF ONE wants to work their marriage with an insecure mate, he needs to take lead and have patience for it. Don't imagine that it will be an uphill task for 40 yrs. If it isn't even progressing after sustained period, then its more than obvious it aren't working. I'm not encouraging anyone to be stuck in the mud.
 
The most common thing we hear.... "I tried talking but she is not listening". In this situation, one needs to be clear WHY she is not listening.

That is key to realize if its even feasible for the marriage to continue. If it isn't, don't waste time liao. I'm not asking anyone to stick on a useless marriage. Its ironic, we exercise alot more EQ with colleagues and even strangers than our partners. But, we are quick to zoom down.... ITS ALL BECAUSE OF HER INSECURITY. But hi.... didn't most of us already know their personality by the time we choose to marry? But, did we do anything than assume that somehow it can work out?? Issues will never disappear, either we quit, learn to address it or accept it. The same 3 options again. It become difficult mainly because of our ignorance and laziness.
 


simpleman,

you have been in this forum for ages. now you pretend does not know why this forum exist ? it is all because living together. no ?

or you just need someone to talk to ?
 
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