Stupid Dilemma: really long. Makes for a boring reading if you're an insomniac.


New Member
Hi all,

I have just came out of a 5 year relationship. Broke up in mid-June, so I guess that makes about 4 months of singlehood.

I have a really good guy friend, Andy. Andy and I have been friends since last year and we share the same humour (not entirely the same but he gets me) and there were times where I thought, after I became single, that if I were to date anyone, I wish it could be Andy. I know Andy very well, and he knows me very well too. There was a night when we went out and he danced with me really closely, we held hands briefly and went out for pizza after. He was pretty affectionate the next day at a close friend's party. But he never asked me out after and I guess I got a little "weirded" out. I planned his birthday dinner and gave him lots of hints, such a flirting with him at parties. At another party, I initiated dancing with the him the way we danced at the first party and I guess nothing really happened. There were moments when he seemed pretty confused. I could tell he was tired and wanted to sit. There was lots of space on the couch I was sitting on but he wouldn't sit with me.

I don't know. I guess if there was any initial sparks, I probably blew it because I never grabbed the bull by its horn and ask him directly how he felt about me. But I thought I was really forward with my hints. We have moments where we were alone and talking about dating in general and he could have asked me out. He knew guys were asking me out. He knows me well enough. And there were ensuing weeks where he didn't really talk to me. I asked to hang out with him during our break and he said he was busy. I know he's busy with assignments because he's quite a procrastinator, like me, so he had to rush. And I think he knows I like him. He is quite perceptive. But he showed up at my birthday party (a smallish picnic) with another girl without telling me he was bringing anyone. She was not from med. He told me that he wasn't dating her but I thought it was pretty rude, firstly to not tell me he's bringing someone, and secondly, to bring her when he knew I liked him.

I guess he just sends me mixed signals but I have such a connection with him on my part. However, at times I am tired, not just of the situation but of our friendship. If I never initiate anything, or if we didn't have to walk the same way back after Uni,or sit in the same spot at lectures, we probably wouldn't keep the friendship going because he never intiates hanging out with me, as in ask me out for coffee or a movie. I dropped hints such as ,"There's a movie coming out that I really want to watch and it's coming out soon!" He would ask me when it's showing and such. Maybe it's all in my head but yah, I got sick of waiting around and so facebooked a few people about the movie and while all replied (yes, no), he never did. But if I ask him to hang out, say, go check out a new youth church with me (which I only asked him coz he's Christian and looking a youth church, I am kinda looking for the same. We are not in our home countries, I have just recently restated my faith after a lot of struggle, mainly just wanting to be sure that God is not my "rebound"), he would and we'll have a good time because we just are really good friends.

I have no idea why I liked him so much. I guess we do go to Church together, he always seem nice to me, we talk a lot about life, Christianity, probably share similar values. I know he ruminates a lot before he makes a decision. And once he makes one he sticks to it. I sometimes wonder if he's just ruminating about asking me out. But I also happen to know this girl he was interested in for a long time very well (he never asked her out because she's an Atheist). The three of us hang out sometimes together and he always seem more interested in talking to her. At lectures, if he had any smart comments to make, or jokes to share, he would preferentially talk to her, or any other girl sitting next to him (I was sitting next to him too), than me. I would be kinda 3rd choice, I supposed, if she or another girl wasn't sitting next to him. They both share this amazing ability to just banter and I always feel like the third wheel when the three of us hang out because quite a number of times, the conversations would just become between him and her, trading witticisms and what not. I admit that I am jealous. Because I do believe that the friendship between me and him, no matter how weird it is, is the closest platonic friendship he has out of the all the girls he knew in Uni. And the night after the party which felt like a date at the end..., the girl showed up with her new boyfriend. He was actually pretty crushed when he found out that she had met someone else a few weeks ago but, really, it's his loss. And I had, at that time, encouraged him to date her just find out if the sparks he felt for her was mutual. It wasn't, by the way, coz the girl is my best friend, and we talked about it recently... but not at that time. I thought they had a connection which was why I encouraged him to ask her out. However, now that I think back on all the times I teased him about finding a match, he would describe a girl that he had a crush on and she sounded suspiciously like me.

I know that he is perhaps wrong for me. He is passive, a chronic procrastinator, ruminates, stubborn. Guess what? I'm the same as well but I can be impulsive. But I really felt this connection with him. And sometimes I feel like if I had been direct and to the point, rather than just flirt openly with him, that maybe he might consider me. But then again, I am not an option! I think that if he finds the amazing Christian girl (basically my best friend but Christian), he would get off his butt and do something about it, and not let her slip away.

So anyhow, there is other amazing guy, Kieran, who got off his butt and asked me out. I was so attracted because he knew me through mutual friends and started face-booking me. We just traded witticisms, jokes... I love it that he writes so well (it's not apparant on this forum but I do write pretty well. Just not when I'm pouring out my confused thoughts). He finally asked me out and we had such a good time that I wanted to go out with him again and again. But I called it off twice because I was only three months out of a long-term relationship then and I don't want a rebound. He gave me space and started being my friend. At the same time, he lets me know, without a doubt, that I was the one he wanted and he would wait.

We are dating now...I feel so happy and secure with him and I want to make him happy too. I want everything good for Kieran... and I think I do make him happy. We share the same humor, we both like going out, we both dance, he's very smart, hard-working, loves my cooking, and he lets me hold him as long as I want. With my ex, we don't really hold hands in public or have much common interests so I guess that strained the relationship for me. But I can't shake off my connection with Andy whom I want all the happiness in the world for. I want to have this connection with Kieran who, rationally, is almost a perfect fit for me. He goes out of his way (he is very busy as we are in med school and he's also taking the USMLE so he could apply to practice in America if he has to as going back to Canada is going to be tough... so that means he's taking 2 major exams almost side by side each other, one from med school and the dreaded USMLE), to spend time with me. I really like him. But my feelings for Andy is stopping me from falling in love with Kieran.

Physically, Andy is the kind of guys I go for. He's very tall and broad, slightly tubby. Kieran has a lean, perfect body and gorgeous brown eyes. This is superficial, Kieran is 5'8, max, and Andy is 6 feet. I know this is so bad but I am drawn, instinctively, to guys over 5'10. But what determines if I do fall in love, is their personality. All my long-term boyfriends, strangely, are 5'8 or just shy of it. Whenever problems cropped up that makes it difficult for me to continue the relationship, I always start getting bitter over their heights. So I thought, this time, to spare me the pain, I'll just go find someone who's 5'11 to 6'3. Most of my guy friends are that tall. But the only tall person I have eyes for is Andy. I'm not saying that they are both physically attractive just because they are Caucasians and look different. They really are considered attractive by anyone's standards.

But with both Andy and Kieran, there is ONE major stumbling block. They are both Canadians. I am Singaporean, of course, and I have Australian PR. Andy really wants to stay in Australia to the point that he's not thinking about the USMLE despite the very real situation that international students in Australia will find it extremely difficult to find internships due to a tsunami of medical students. I'm definitely guaranteed a job so I am not worried at all. Kieran is keeping his options open. He is wary of not finding a placement in Australia and wants to have the option of going to America/Canada if he has to. I am worried that if I commit to Kieran, after two years, he won't be able to stay in Australia and I won't be able to follow him to Canada (Canadians find it hard to go back to practice medicine. Non-Canadians will find it IMPOSSIBLE). So there'll be a real possibility of us breaking up in two years time.

My best friend told me that my attachment to Andy and my qualms about Kieran's height sound like barriers to committing to anything because I can see red flags (especially potential LDR across continents). But most peoeple agree that whenever I talk about Kieran, I sound really into him. I am. Personality and character wise, he's everything I want. He got off his butt to ask me out, has a strong work ethics, covers all bases, is romantic, generous (as generous as he can given a huge student debt), really into me. I also want to cook for him all the time...

If only I hadn't fallen for Andy first. I still harbour some hope and suspicions that he does like me, maybe not enough to stop ruminating about asking me out and just ask me out. And my ex, whom I know I still love very much, is coming today to pick up his books. I broke up with my ex because not only do we have personality crashes but we can't decide on common goals and at a ripe age of 29, I really want to share common goals with someone and work towards it. Sorry for the rant. But yes, I am very confused. I am ruled by both my emotions and my overly rational mind. But they pull in such opposite directions!


New Member
Hi Abbey,

Both guys are not suitable for you.

Andy treats you as a platonic friend.
Kieran does not fit into your ideal ht of 6ft.

Believe me if you compromise you will be unhappy in the future.

My sister used to have a boyfriend who is perfect in every way except he's 5'6.
She tried to convince herself that he's perfect for her but failed.

She even imagined that she will never be able to wear her dream princess wedding gown without looking like a big, puffy white ball next to her shorter boyfriend.

It's superficial thinking, you may say.
But she was unhappy so after 8 yrs of relationship, she broke off with him and finally found someone who is 6 ft and loves her very much.

Guess what? They married within a year and now after 3 yrs of marriage, they are proud parents of a 2yr old son.
Abbey- you are 29 this year?

From the way you write- in med school and all- first impressions was that you are much younger- 20 or so....choosing betw 2 guys...

Anyways- agree with Albee that both do not seem suitable for you...and yes, your emotions seems to rule you for the time being...are you looking for a life partner at this point?


New Member
I know! I hate it how I am so freaking young in looks and maturity. But in ovaries I'm definitely 29, or so I hope. Sometimes I feel like my puberty is half-done... get what I mean? Tongue-in-cheek, by the way. I'm the girl that doesn' want to be tied down and somehow ended up in one long term relationship after another.

I am looking for a life partner eventually but right now, I just want to have fun. It's difficult, though, to have fun when someone like Kieran or Andy comes along. I know and befriended enough assholes to know true gems. I just find it so hard to fall in love and when I do, it's so freaking intense. I'm just a little tired.

I guess being in a graduate med school and hanging around those freaking 20-25 yos can have a detrimental effect on your maturity. I think it's just life circumstances. I'm pretty sure if I were to pop out a baby tomorrow, my maturity level will be totally different. I'll be looking for a guy with stability, generosity, kindness, respect.

And I still am. I read Albee's post and realise how superficial the height thing sound. I actually thought the post was written in jest to get me to see how superficial I can be. Really, it could be anything... like height, the fact that he has a perfect body, or that he's a MAC user and I'm a PC girl. I know. Stupid. Or something. Maybe I am just afraid of committing... had a really bad relationship for 7 years... a great one for 5 years but still nothing... quite disappointing, really.

I must take what I said back, Kieran and I do have a connection. It just not the same connection as the one I have with Andy. The moment I saw Andy, I was just blown away. I have no idea why. I loved my then-partner very much and never thought more about that "blown away" feeling. But then I remembered seeing Kieran in lectures once and thought that guy looked hot and I could marry him. I just have strange thoughts like that that burst into my stupid brain. It's crazy. I wonder if I'm nuts.

As for my age, you might be shock to know that there are MANY mature-aged students in med school. Andy's my age, Kieran's a year older. My priority is to be doctor though. It sucks that the education system in Singapore is so unforgiving. If you weren't a straight A student by the age of 8 (that's when streaming starts, right?), you'll have no chance of getting into medical school. Some people, like me, are late bloomers. Bored of school in the beginning in the beginning but decide to put our intelligence to good use later on in life. With all that angst, ridiculous ambitions and craziness in my mind when I was young, education is like the last thing on my mind (I was still a great student, got into top 5 schools and JCs) just not as great as I could be because I never, ever study, and get into med school at home, hence the delay.

But hey, I'm happy that I didn't let age stop me from pursuing my dream of becoming a doctor! I know most of my friends are married and have kids... but it's not a priority to me now and I wouldn't be able to experience the rich life I have (travel, Masters, work with kids, med school etc.) if I had gone down the traditional path. I would be stuck with a stupid, emotionally and verbally abusive asshat (My second boyfriend, not the ultra sweet most recent long-term). I fear I am a serial monogamist... wanting long term but a bona fide commitment phobe. I know, at 29, I should be settling down. Everyone says that. But it's society and sometimes, some people just value different things. I do want a family, just not now. But I do see a family in the near future.


New Member
Why not finish from your studies first before considering on r/s? as u might have more better choices after being a doc.


Well-Known Member
I'm going to be very frank with you here.

One advice : learn to go straight to the point and focus on what really matters. The way things drag with your relationship with Andy pretty much consistent with how you put across your thoughts here. LONG WINDED, flip flopping like roti prata and super draggy.

Your analysis of your issues is like a big collection of ideas and factors but without any focus. One moment, its about your faith, and being sure, its not a rebound, then there is the physical requirement but then the character. After everything, then the nationality, long term goals. The list will not end there. It goes on and you can ponder till the cow comes home. It will not be surprising to spring out another new perspective or factor that could again confuse and upset all your consideration thus far.

Before trying to decide your options based only on the two men. Find out what you really need and want. Is it physical, character or your long term goals. You are throwing all kinds of variables and permutations into the picture and getting overwhelmed and confused. What you really need to be happy is to FIRST DISCOVER YOURSELF, i.e. Know your priorities. When you know what u really want, there is no need to consider everything or eligible nice guy that comes into your life. Just simply being happy with someone that can bring and share that happiness with. Focus on that.


New Member
Hi all,

My hubby recently read an article about merger of SDU and SDS with Private Matchmaking Agency in the newspapers.

Then he suddenly asked me how I decide on my life partner.
I told him I don't really have any checklist as long as I feel happy with him.
Out of all the guys who ask me out, I feel happiest with him.

So what Milo said is right. To be happy with someone.

Guess what my hubby said?
He said guys are different. He said for him he must choose someone whom he will not get tired of seeing easily.

Geez, I don't whether to smile or cry at his reply.

Do guys place beauty as such an important trait in choosing a partner?


New Member
Albee: don't think ur hubby meant beauty in this sense. maybe more like feeling sick of seeing someone? u see.. i am sure in ur life u experience seeing someone everyday at work and u r so sick of them. see them and u "roll eyes". definitely, u will never consider this kind of ppl as life partner rite?

the other possibility is that he wouldn't want a partner who is a totally different person after removal of make-up. imagine he got a beautiful wife, so perfect, everyone so envious.. but only he knows. at nite.. he need to face the "fact". haha... if u r the guy, betcha u will feel sian too. no matter wat, humans are always visual. no matter how we say, no la.. i will go for someone with gd character, no need too handsome blah blah blah... deep down we know, we still have some requirements. at least they muz be passable in our eyes. yah? so in this sense, its gd that ur hubby is being truthful to u. rather he kept telling u, u r the most beautiful woman in the whole wide world. and in fact he is juz pacifying u rite?

Abbey80: i feel that u think too much. or perhaps u dream too much for a perfect guy. guess u need to establish a fact that no one is perfect. remember, when u r criticising someone for their flaws, there will be some other ppl who are criticising u too. u r not that perfect anyway,rite?
No matter how beautiful the gal is at that particular moment, she will also age sooner or later. There're always tons of ladies prettier and younger than us out there.


don't mind me but u sound like u're not even 29-10. Dunno your background, perhaps u don't need to grow up, if that's so, lucky u.
Men, u can take your time to choose. Settle down, u can decide when u wanna do that. Some things though, better get the priorities right. I wouldn't be too amused if after cutting me up, my doc goes "oooh, that liver looks like it needs a bit of fixing too before i slice the appendix"


New Member
Just sharing ...... What I want in a man!

Original list:
1. Handsome
2. Charming
3. Financially successful
4. A caring listener
5. Witty
6. In good shape
7. Dresses with style
8. Appreciates finer things
9. Full of thoughtful surprises

What I want in a man, revised list (age 32)
1. Nice looking
2. Opens car doors, holds chairs
3. Has enough money for a nice dinner
4. Listens more than talks
5. Laughs at my jokes
6. Carries bags of groceries with ease
7. Owns at least one tie
8. Appreciates a good home-cooked meal
9. Remembers birthdays and anniversaries

What I want in a man, revised list (age 42)
1. Not too ugly
2. Doesn't drive off until I'm in the car
3. Works steady - splurges on dinner out occasionally
4. Nods head when I'm talking
5. Usually remembers punch lines of jokes
6. Is in good enough shape to rearrange the furniture
7. Wears a shirt that covers his stomach
8. Knows not to buy champagne with screw-top lids
9. Remembers to put the toilet seat down
10. Shaves most weekends

What I want in a man, revised list (age 52)
1. Keeps hair in nose and ears trimmed
2. Doesn't belch or scratch in public
3. Doesn't borrow money too often
4. Doesn't nod off to sleep when I'm venting
5. Doesn't re-tell the same joke too many times
6. Is in good enough shape to get off the couch on weekends
7. Usually wears matching socks and fresh underwear
8. Appreciates a good TV dinner
9. Remembers your name on occasion
10. Shaves some weekends

What I want in a man, revised list (age 62)
1. Doesn't scare small children
2. Remembers where bathroom is
3. Doesn't require much money for upkeep
4. Only snores lightly when asleep
5. Remembers why he's laughing
6. Is in good enough shape to stand up by himself
7. Usually wears some clothes
8. Likes soft foods
9. Remembers where he left his teeth
10. Remembers that it's the weekend

What I want in a man, revised list (age 72)
1. Breathing.
2. Doesn't miss the toilet.


New Member
Hey Pavilion, wat an extensive list! but at age 72, it'll be really nice for a husband to still hold her wife's hand wherever they go.

I saw cute old couples who still hold hands when they're shopping, still give each other a peck on the cheek. then i'll tell my husband: see, if only we can do that at this age. this is so loving!


Active Member
Just sharing.. what I want in a woman:

any age:

a) Don't give me a long list of requirements. Or if you want to give.. look at yourself in the mirror first.

b) Or better still.. just shut-up and don't nag.
Sm and Pink,
All men seem to put point b) "No nagging" in their requirement list, including my hubby!

Now I know that a naggy woman is so frightening haha.


Active Member
I just find that requirement list useless.. for every requirement we put .. we should ask ourselves the equivalent requirement that we ourselves need to have.. then ...


Active Member

talkative and chatty woman is ok.. but it is not the same as naggy woman..

Actually naggy men are turn-off as well. people who keep repeating themselves and not realize it themselves..
There're always such people around who demand perfect princess and prince charming without looking at the mirror themselves haha. They can carry on with their mindset and wait forever lor.


Active Member
It's true that we have to reflect on ourselves...
Sometimes I'll ask the question...if I'm the man, will I be with a woman like myself? Sadly, or even amusingly, the answer is NO!


New Member

I love your first answer, Milo. Not that I don't love the rest but they don't really add anything more but are pretty amusing! I guess I love it because I came to the same conclusion and being narcissistic, I just the love the answer that coincided with my own.

I did write the original post when I was extremely confused and stressed. I was also studying all about the gastrointestinal bits. I laughed so hard at the liver and appendix!

Yes, I'm 29. When I'm calm, I do know what I need and what I want. But I am carrying the annoying twins of anxiety and obsession. They lead me to do stupid things like write dumb, verbose crap on forums and ruminate on every aspect of life. It also stems from a lack of self-confidence about my own decision.

But still, thanks for all who read this super long and draggy post. After writing it, I read it 3 times, got sick of it, and realise I knew the answer all along.


ah, now u sound 29. As long as u are capable of "getting sick of it" after re-reading, u're good.

u're 29, u write well, u're going to be a doctor, why the lack of self confidence? I'm 39, i'm jobless, i probably have a bad liver from all the beers but i still think i'm ok.

It's perfectly alright to have negative traits, we all do (ok, maybe some think they don't, but i have lots, so i'd like to think that everyone else does). As long as u're capable of seeing and making the best use of your positive ones, u shud do just fine.

Be it with andy, kieran, both, 10 men or no man, i hope u find YOUR happiness