Oven

[celestia75]

Hi SatinChris,

3D hot air only generate heat from rear heating element. you can use it for baking but the heat is not as hot as the REAL top n bottom heat.

Bosch - 3D hot air
Brandt - Circulating heat
Electrolux - Ultra Fan Cook
De Dietrich - FAN

Just that different brand gives different name. This particular programme doesnt heat the top n bottom heating element.In DD, if u use COMBINED HEAT, it will perform best results for baking.COMBINED HEAT is the top n bottom heat and fan tat i m talking about. u can try to download the manual book from www.dedietrich.com.sg b4 u buy.
https://portal.bsh-partner.com/portal(bD1kZSZjPTAwOQ==)/PORTALFRAME.HTM
u need to copy the whole link n paste in ur browser so no id needed for log in. If you going to spend for bosch hba56b550, i rather u go for DD ~

 

[quake_111]

hi Celestia ,
me new in here , would need some advise on Oven as my current one is spoilt.

my friend pass me a cat by the brand of Tenkei Home Appliances (Any one heard of it , the pic. quite nice and oven okie , my friend pass me a model and the price $459.00). i have actually post a forum already. would need some advise . Not too expensive oven as it is use by my wife

hope to surprise her before Christmas lor

thanks alot

 

[satinchris]

Hi Celestia

In Bosch catalogue, it did explain that 3D hot air comprises of top & bottom element and additional element around the fan. http://www.bosch-home.com/Files/Bosch/Sg/sg_en/Document/Bosch%20Built-in%20Appliances%202009.pdf (see pg. 10)

Does that not mean top heat, bottom heat and fan?

I’m really new to buying an oven, so I might have understood that wrongly.

 

[celestia75]

Hi Quake,

I never heard of Tenkei b4. Even i try to search in google but nothing found except your post in forum. U looking for built in or table top model ?

 

[celestia75]

Hi SatinChris,

I jus viewed the bosch catalogue,it did mention combined with top n bottom heat but u click on the hba56b550 instruction manual, they dun explain in this way so it's a bit confusing but from what i understand, the icon tat shows a fan and outer has a ring usually means heat from rear element coz tis is international standard icon. if u going to spend S$2199 for bosch catalytic oven hba56b550, u can consider brandt pyrolitic oven fp867xs1 at S$1899

 

[bleuskies]

Hi Celestia,

Have been following yours and ridz's advice.

Have almost narrowed down to Brandt, just wondering whether I need pyrolytic or would catalytic cleaning do.

Just quick question: How often of grilling per month do you feel would require a pyrolytic oven?

I am likely to grill at most once/twice a month.

Many thanks!

 

[celestia75]

Hi Bleuskies,

Other than the pyrolytic cleaning, it offers AUTOCOOK, positioning cooking and Grill plus for pizza plus u do not need to spend extra cost for catalytic cleaning panel. Honestly if u grill once or twice a month, u do not need pyro oven coz u r not roasting too. So other than the cleaning, if u do not need the extra features i mentioned as above, jus go for catalytic oven. =)

 

[cameron]

Hi Celestia,
In the end, I went for the Brandt.. FP867 (newer model of FP667). The manual that came with the oven did not state what auto program the oven has. Any idea where I can get that? Or do I press the buttons on the control panel to figure that out? Sorry... kinda lost here.. TIA!

 

[celestia75]

Hi Cameron,

Insert the food 1st and Go to the left 1st function - AUTO, after that the led panel will show six categories. Etc, if u wan to roast a chicken, jus select chicken icon will do. Instructions manual should have,if not call the shop or agent for more details. Btw, update me if you find the oven is good. Thanks.

 

[homeboy]

Hi Quake,

My neighbour bought the tenkei oven and i must say, its good value for money. We compared it to other brands and it feels very solid. Its also made in Europe and for $499, i think its very good value with the 6 cooking functions.

If you need to find out more, you can drop my neighbour a call, very good value if you are looking for something affordable. We had dinner at her place the other night, roast chicken and the shepard's pie turned out very nicely, or maybe i was too hungry!!

 

[bleuskies]

Hi Celestia and Ridz,

Please advise...had decided to get the Brandt FP667 but alas already replaced and find the new FP867 price tag of 1890 too high (my budget 1500)

a) do you think FP667 would still be available in small neighbourhood shops?

b) Is Electrolux EOC67000X which is going at 1299 value for money/comparable? According to HN salesman, the difference between FP and EOC is only that EOC doesn't come with pre-programming functions..

Celestia, based on your earlier posts on EOC67000X, it seems that EOC doesn't come with "top and bottom heat, with fan"?

c) The HN sales gave the ranking of the brand positioning as follows:

1 - Miele, XX (can't remember, some other brand that sounds industrial)
2 - De Dietrich, XX (some other brand that I havent heard before
4 - Borsch
5 - Electrolux?
5 - Brandt?

What are your comments about the above ranking?

Thanks for your advice in advance!

bleuskies

 

[satinchris]

Hi Celestia,
Based on your recommendations, we have decided to get Brandt FP867XS1. Thanks a lot! That Bosch model that I was previously considering has got a lot of auto cook programmes but we may not use most of them. We went back to HN and the salesperson said the same thing too and recommended Brandt.

Hi bleuskies,
you may want to enquire with neighbourhood shops. There are a few neighbourhood electronics store at Alexandra (at the junction of IKEA and Queensway Shopping Ctr) and one of them is selling the FP867 at $1680.

 

[cameron]

Hi Celestia, I will explore and let u know when I have feedback on the new Brandt model. Thanks so much fr your valuable advice. Talk soon!!

 

[celestia75]

Hi Blueskies,

When an oven do not comes with top n bottom heat with fan, it wont bakes well or i should say it wont brown well. Bcoz a lot oven nowadays comes with rear heating element heat and doesn't get heat from top n bottom like last time. But if you choose carefully, u still can find some model has tis particular cooking method. If u spend S$1299 for oven and it doesnt bakes well, does it worth the money althought it's cheap ? Try to think why suddenly they drop at such a rock bottom price which electrolux retail it at 4k last time ? For me, i dun see any gud in this oven when the price can slash like tis. It's like korean products to me.

I would rank oven brandt in this way:
1. Miele / Gagganeau
2. De Dietrich
3. Bosch
4. Brandt
5. Electrolux / Ariston / Teka

To me, i see brandt cooking appliances are better than electrolux coz they know wat customer wants. They have correct model and some technology which i dun see in electrolux. Wat i saw is brandt features are very similar to de dietrich. jus tat u dun pay for the design if you get brandt. hence is a lot cheaper than de dietrich. I like de dietrich very much but cant afford to spend so much. Especially the color screen and the user friendly panel makes me like to cook and bake. Salesman used to told me new oven do not need rotisserie for roasting. I bought the entry level model from brandt tat without rotisserie but after i roast, i still prefer the oven with rotisserie tat turns and makes chicken more browning and shining. U will notice a lot oven do not have rotisserie but brandt and de dietrich certain models has it. Bosch new oven actually disappointing me coz the pyro oven only has three layer glass door which is still hot when u do pyro cleaning. Althought brandt is below bosch, but they have four layer glass doors to ensure safety for child.

 

[ridhwan82]

i second celestia wong's ranking of the ovens.

Overall if you are on a budget. brandt ovens is value for money.

the most id go is de dietrich which i have. miele is just too hard for me to stomach cos of the usage is not particularly high for me.

Though i splurge on miele washer and dryer cos its an everyday affair for me.

 

[bleuskies]

Many thanks Celestia & Ridz!

Think I will follow SatinChris's footsteps and get FP867

Problem I face is everywhere i go, the sales will push certain brands and as i am not as well-versed i get confused easily... Always need to digest and double check...

SatinChris, I also tried the discount store at katong and indeed got quotes below 1700

Thanks for your tip!

 

[homeboy]

I have seen Brandt ovens in action and i personally would not get them, their build quality is still not close to the Tekas or Aristons or Electrolux.

Some of the brandt quality issues were highlighted to me from another brand sales person the other day, and I realised globally, Brandt does have some issues.

In any case, the top tier for mid class ovens I would consider Bosch, Electrolux, Teka, Ariston. Highend I can't afford so I shan't comment too much

Good value, Turbo and Tenkei have some made in Europe ovens which are good quality and comfortable on the wallet!

My personal view, cheers.

 

[celestia75]

Hi Michael,

I would agreed bosch oven quality is better than Brandt but not electrolux,teka,ariston,turbo and tenkei.

1. ELECTROLUX
## I found electrolux oven's door are fragile. They design a plastic cover to remove glass door for cleaning.That plastic cover are really fragile. I ever saw the plastic cover cracked in showroom. This is wat salesperson told me and intro Brandt to me. And the opening of the oven door are not as good as Brandt and Bosch. Plus oven trays are really small to compare with Brandt.

2. TEKA
## Teka ovens are made in Portugal. Arent France is better than Portugal ? Most of the ppl thought Teka are German Brand which i did last time. In fact, they are Spanish brand. I found their oven do not have any self cleaning features even u pay 3k. Glass door of oven are not removable. How am i going to clean if condensation happen ?

3. ARISTON
## I love Ariston in fact but sad and angry when i think of their after sales service. Mayer Marketing carry Ariston in spore. I would prefer direct agent if products are same price with Ariston. Ariston used to be very durable last time but since after INDENSIT GROUP bought over them for past few years in europe, Ariston quality had drop. Just a tips to share, ariston,indensit and hotpoint are the same factory. In europe, european s condemn hotpoint products coz they are really annoying. They called hotpoint "PROBLEM BRAND".

4. TURBO
## I m surprised when ppl commented TURBO are better than Brandt. Turbo are local brand that created by local sporean company. They are getting their products from italy or china factory. Remember, european usually ignore OEM products. WHY ? Coz if they are gud, they wont make for other ppl. Their ticketed price are not cheap sometimes coz they are getting from OEM factory. Sometimes their price almost the same with BRANDED. I know TURBO oven with fan are selling ard S$800 but with tis price u can get bosch,electrolux or brandt anytime. OEM brand for ovens are like TURBO,TECNO,UNO,CUIZINO n TENKEI.

5. TENKEI
## I never come across TENKEI Home Appliances when i m shop around. Who are the agent in Spore ? I google Tenkei in my safari but nothing appear except some sg forum are mentioning it. And do Tenkei sounds European ? More like China or Japanese name.

 

[ridhwan82]

celestia maybe we should be fair to michael.

Waht was the quality problem?

Maybe you could let us know what was communicated to you by the salesperson.

Oh yes. salespersons are the last that you should rely on for accurate information. worse they always say i have this at home and etc. and used it and its good. but when you comment on a feature etc they get thrown off, aka they are bullshitting lah.

Electrolux door is not convincing for me either - i agree with you celestia.

i used it a couple of times at my aunt's to bake. quality so so.

features wise. teka is rather unfriendly and the door design. nvm i would give it a skip too. for the prices you are paying, aesthetics okay i can give it to them but features. nicht.

ariston quality and aftersales is dwindling as mentioned. there is like almost no diff with it and indesit. no build quality, features etc diff between the 2 which i find puzzling.

turbo not in my list. Heat distribution is not acute the temperature is not uniform throughout the cavity. used it at my other aunt's place as well. multi level cooking turned out a nightmare instead of making it easy for me.

so mid range i would still go for brandt. seriously.

 

[rachelwongyk]

Hi Celestia & Ridz,

This is my first time buying an oven as Im trying to pick up baking but i think the price for Brandt FP867 is a little ex for starter buyer hence am looking at Brandt FC842 which i think is the replaced version of FC642 (catalytic cleaning). Is this model good per your expert aspect?

 

[ridhwan82]

i would reckon its okay. if im not wrong it has the fan cooking only feature which is okay. though if im not wrong the price difference is not that great. i would personally go for the 867. so called future proof when you pick up baking and become and avid baker.

but otherwise if budget is a major consideration then i guess the 842 is pretty okay.

 

[rachelwongyk]

Thanks Ridz... I too agreed the price diff is only 500 bucks but im not sure will I become an avid baker or lose interest in baking (maybe my talent is not there ;p ) hence am indecisive in buying FP867.

 

[ridhwan82]

why not try to get the oven at those neighbourhood shops. prices might be lesser for the 867. Cos the 867 is more full featured oven as compared to the 842.

check out parisilk perhaps?

 

[minminmin]

i have a budget of 1200 and am looking to bake cakes n cookies and roast meats. can someone recce me a good oven? thanks!

 

[ridhwan82]

brandt might fit your budget.

 

[quake_111]

hi all , i decided to buy the Tenkei Oven

the price is fine with me , so thanks alot for the infro and now i cant wait to eat my wife baking

 

[minminmin]

ridz: can recce me a brandt model? thanks!

 

[ridhwan82]

i think the 842 is pretty okay. if you can get the 867 cheaper get the 867. think retails about 1.8k or sorts.

the 842 is a standard fanfare featured oven. Celestia what say you?

 

[washer_specialist]

Hi Quake,

May i know where to get the so call TENKEI ovens??

 

[quake_111]

Hi twt ;

my friend pass to me one and his the one who is selling it

You may contact my friend or do you want him to email you the details :

 

[quake_111]

hi twt ;

As for the Tenkei oven you may visit their website at www.tenkeiworld.com which i just found out

just went to my friens place for dinner and saw his house got a oven and brand is " A " , it rust !!!! and my friend told me their service bad , call cant get through . lucky i did not buy that oven brand . phew

otherwise my wife sure kill me

 

[homeboy]

Sorry for the late reply Celestia, Ridz, was on year end holiday

The construction of the Brandt oven is definitely not as good as the Bosch or Ariston ovens that I've seen. The design features on the internals are old generation and most baker friends have advised against using the brandt due to heat inconsistencies.

Aftersales for brandt is not that good either. De Dietrich being in the same family also has logistics and servicing issues. I happen to speak with one of the brandt servicing personnel the other day and they shared some of the issues they were facing.

Quake below has the tenkei website listed.

I like the new Electrolux ovens, 65 litres! That's a nice capacity in standard dimensions. The Ariston Openspace has a 70 litre oven in standard dimensions but lacking in some core heating functions, so don't get this.

cheers.

Oh, best wishes for the New Year!

 

[celestia75]

Hi Michael,

The brandt servicing personnel must be ur good friend since he shared his own co. problem with you. In fact, no one can assure their after sales service with consumer.try to drop urself at their customer service centre and use ur own eye to see how they work. Most of the co. only hire 2 to 3 customer service officer to handle whole spore customers...Do u think any brand can handle well ? Ppl used to tell me brandt do not have good after sales service but i do not see bosch and electrolux or ariston have better service...

Tenkei ovens are mainly from OEM factories. You can only see it in spore. And just only they launch in spore. I don't see it in any big retail stores yet. Even u google it in other countries, u don't find it. So it's not recognize yet, after all it's just another local co. own created brand and it's just cheaper price to attract some unknowledgeable consumers.

Electrolux oven indeed has 65 litres but check out the size of the baking tray. it's the same with elux 52 litres baking tray. Inner quality equally same with Turbo ovens. Maybe bcoz made in Australia and everyone knows Australia doesnt makes a good oven. I myself had saw Ariston Openspace 70 litres oven. Italy definetely has better quality than the australian made. Inside are really big till u can grill on top (20 litres) and bake on the bottom (46litres). It has separator to separate the temperature and heat. Ariston model even comes with digital temperature settings which allows u to set precise temperature while elux australia model do not have tis. It still comes with either catalytic cleaning or pyrolitic cleaning so i don't see any lacking features in tis model.

Just to share my experience over here ~ Happy New Year to everyone

 

[washer_specialist]

I 2nd Celestia's opinion....

Homeboy.............

Can you tell me where have you seen the Brandt ovens in action?? Bring me along as i have seen it personally during their cooking classes held in Pasir Panjang and Mandarin hotel(if dont get it wrong for the name of the hotel)

Built quality aspect not in comparisons with those of the electrolux,ariston and Tekas?? I personally feel very uptight about this view??

Have you ever seen the electrolux ovens which has those plastic feeling when you try to remove the glass doors??

Have you felt the quality of the Teka ovens when you try opening the door??

Have you ever had the experience of losing your features sense when you try operating the ariston ovens???

I think you should self reflect on what you had posted earlier on..... Pls do try using an oven termometer on those oven which you had mention and you can try telling us on the accuracy of temperature setting....

Last but not least... I wish to apologise if i sound offensive/defensive.

 

[homeboy]

Hi Celestia, Twt,

Seems like my opinions have caused you guys quite a stir. I find it odd.

I've just recently used my friend's brandt oven and I can testify that my experience with some other brands is much better. I've also attended some classes using various oven brands recently and got some first hand practise.

In any case, since my views have managed to caused you quite some unhappiness, I shall refrain from commenting anymore on Brandt.

This is a forum with an open exchange of views. To each his own preference when it comes to buying different brands and products. I believe an open exchange of product information and experience would be useful for all.

cheers.

 

[washer_specialist]

hi,

Another bruise ego.... I sincerely apolgise to my dearest home boy on my HARSH opinions.

Cheers

 

[celestia75]

Hi Michael Teo,

Same over here, i had fren who had turbo oven. Maybe she had bad experience with it so i dun recommend turbo oven here. And both of us tried out brandt oven which works fine for us. And both of us are quite choosy so if brandt still doesnt meet ur expectation, i think it's hard for other unknown brand to get better results.

 

[bigbelly]

Hi All,

I understand that Brandt FP667XS1 has been replaced with FP867XS1. The pdf catalogue on Brandt's website is not updated so need more info from your guys. What are the differences between the 2 models? Does the new model have rotisserie too?

Or got other built-in ovens with rotisserie to recommend? Budget is $2500, but stretchable.

ridz shifu, remember me from months ago? I haven't got time until now to settle my oven due to busy work commitment hehe...

 

[celestia75]

Hi Long,

fp867xs1 still comes with rotisserie. new model comes with better look with more black

 

[washer_specialist]

This is the main problem with Brandt products....

The idiotic FRENCH always are slow in updating the product features and yet think they are the BEST in town. A BIG THUMBS down to them!!!!

 

[babyk]

Hi Homeboy,
I also don't know why this forum is very against OEM. Actually, if the brands have been around in Singapore for many years, like Techno & Turbo, they can't be too bad, right?

I don't want to shoot down Brandt because I've not used it before. But reading the latest posting by twt, it brings back some memory...I have my own reservation about French stuff.

Their fragrances & cosmetics & fashion are good, but other than that... If you've been to Paris airport, have you wondered why their escalators are so complicated? THey don't 'flow'. Why the check-in area for our national carrier is so cramp & the queue is always like a snake? Transferring to take domestic flight was just as bad...

Another experience was I stayed at a 5-star hotel there and when I first entered my room, wow! it was very nice, esp the toilet. They have different cubicles for the shower & toilet and layout is just so different from those other contemporary ones that I've been to. I even took pictures of the whole toilet! BUT, BUT, BUT, when it's time to take a shower, I tell you, I started scolding the stupid designer! NO place to hang your towel!!! and the gap between the door & the floor is so tiny that you cannot put a towel on the floor else cannot open door after your shower!

The local French also told me that they are like that! For a simple thing, they somehow like to design very complicated solution.

My conclusion - French things are 'good to look at, but not good to use' (as the Chinese saying).

 

[washer_specialist]

Babyk,

The subject going against OEM product is rather subjective. However on a more personal note, OEM products comparing against a product made by a certain Brand or factory(made themself) will definitely be considered, especially when we are talking about a purchase which is worth a few hundred dollars, not even mentioning a few thousand dollars.

Cheers.

 

[ridhwan82]

hmm anyhow. in terms of oven. ill stand by brandt as good mid-range ovens. and for higher end ovens i still will say de dietrich. and even higher than that. would be gaggenau or miele.

gaggenau would be manual parametric setting with professional technology and results.

having used electrolux, turbo and even la germania and sad to say ariston. not that very solid in performance and results.

but that being said. its my personal opinion having used those ovens a number of times and of course owning a brandt and de dietrich if i have the spare cash if go for de dietrich

 

[baking_novice]

Hi Celestica,
Read thr' the various threads on basic entry level ovens (for novice bakers like me) & narrowed down to the Bosch 331 and Brandt FE811. You mentioned earlier that top n bottom heat with fan is important for baking. Does the two models have this feature? Called up Paris Silk rep and was told it has, but the rep at showroom said no. Confused... can you advise if either of the two models are decent enough for decent baking? Thks!!

 

[pamtricko]

Hi! I'm a 1st time homeowner looking for an oven. Do you have any opinions of a Bosch HBA43B450A? Basically it meets our criteria of:
- Budget: quoted 1.3K (vs budget of 1k-1.2k)
- Self cleaning AND 3 or 4 glass door: Reason is that oven is positioned under my stove, making it hard to clean. I don't want my kneecaps to be burnt while I'm working my stove!
- Reliability/ build quality: Hubby likes that this oven is made in Germany like his favorite car. Seriously, had gd experience with Bosch in general, and w/ their after sales.

Main question is "Can oven cook well?" I make pizza/baked pasta and grill about 3 times a week, sometimes more. AND although now I'm a baking bodoh, once I get the oven I will start to learn. Hopefully oven will be used to bake- not burn- cakes, pineapple tarts and pavalovas.

From the Bosch Singapore website:
Cooking method first cavity: Full width variable grill, Hot Air, Conventional heat, Bottom heat, Hot air grilling
From the Bosch NZ website, it says it in more layman terms
Multi-function oven with 5 heating methods:
– Top/bottom heating
– Bottom heating
– 3D hot air Plus
– Hot air grilling
– Grill - large area

I think for Grilling will have no problems. For baking, it seems it lacks the top/bottom element+fan? Pls help me understand if this is suitable oven. Its an entry level oven w/ no programmes, which is ok cos I'm a newbie but perhaps its not a good buy for the price. Any suggestions welcomed, I'm open to other brands as well. THANKS SO MUCH!

 

[washer_specialist]

goh,

the bosch oven which you mention does not have the top and bottom heat with fan features which you would ideally required when you are baking.

As for the brandt oven, it comes with the top and bottom heat with fan feature.

 

[pamtricko]

Hi everyone, after reading the forum. I'm 99% going for the Brandt FP867.
It has pyro cleaning and 4 glass cool door, auto prgram, top/bottom+fan that Bosch HBA43B450A does not offer (catalytic, 3 door, no auto program,circulating air only) Pricewise, Brandt is slightly higher, but its worth for the extra features.
The only doubt i have is reliability. BUT to be fair so far none of my friends using Brandt/DD have any complaints. Also the french pastries & cakes are one of the best- the French must know something about ovens!

 

[bigbelly]

I finally got my oven installed liao. Brandt FP867XS1. I'm a noob. Thanks for all the advices here to help form my decision.

Will update again in a few months when I've tested it out through actual use.

 

[bleuskies]

Hi guys, have been a while since I come back for an update...

just wanted to share that nowadays, no matter where I go, the sales person always push electrolux...
its established, german made etc....

is german-made really so good? and is electrolux really so good?

 

[bleuskies]

oh yah i also wanted to ask, after getting FP867, still need microwave and toaster?

can just get by with the big oven?? LOL