Seek advice on Alimony

F

fallenisis

New Member
Consulted a lawyer today and given some options;

1) sell flat and have him agree to giving us more percentage from the profits so that mother n child can buy a smaller flat to live in, while getting some minimal maintainence amount for the kid. Will be needing to get a full-time job with cpf contribution and appeal for hdb loan.

2) buy over his share of the flat, have him pay monthly maintainence alimony (but if ever he's down with illness or remarried or mia, I'll not get a single cent)

Bad news for me, whatever joint accounts or investments profits to be split 50:50. I probably will check with lawyer again if we could do 25(him):25(me):50(child).

Option 1 or 2 would be a wiser decision?
 


hi , how old are u?

option 3, did your lawyer not advice that he he can transfer his share of CPF contribution to the house to you?

there are a few more option, if you lawyer really give u those two option, u better get another lawyer opinion.
 
i have no idea why u're so keen to give large portions to your child... it's illogical. the kind of split which u seek is flawed....
 
Hi powder,

I'm jus protecting my daughter's welfare, is it wrong for a mother to do so? Should anything happen to me, she'll be all alone if he were to remarry.. U think its easy to be someone's stepchild when they can make their own flesh and blood? I've walked that path and I have no intentions of her experiencing what I've been through.. Which is why I endured her father's abuse but it has gotten to a stage whereby she's involved too.

maybe after reading this thread, you'll have a better understanding?
http://www.singaporebrides.com/forumboard/messages/5/950743.html?1236002616
 
u can only protect what belongs to u... when u try to take from others what belongs to them.... u can't use the word 'protect'.

and justifying it with the actions of a mother is in poor taste... being a mother does not mean u can be any less obligated to be fair in judgment.

also, should anything should happen to u - then actually there's this thing known as Insurance. it's a whole lot more than trying to get more than your fair share of the house or joint account. maybe it's better u make him pay the premiums on insurance.

i've read that thread by the way, being where u are is tough i understand, but just cos u chose to tolerate for years, u dun suddenly decide to exact vengence. u can walk out, but now u want someone to pay for your suffering? the way i see it, your kid is just a makeshift weight... i didn't reply in that thread becos u were being unreasonable... 100% to daughter, 100% this 100% that.

and looking at how u answered me, u're not even being logical nor objective... what sort of nonsense is this? - "U think its easy to be someone's stepchild when they can make their own flesh and blood?"

if u talk like this, think like this... u'll get less than what u initially wanted. just cos u stopped being the victim, dun expect to suddenly play the big guy and bully back... u're half the equation for the abuse towards yourself and your daughter.

what u should give your daughter is a Mother with the strength to walk away and rebuild her life the right way, with every ounce of ethical/moral conviction... money is the least of your worries. u want the cycle to stop, start by thinking right...
 
What sort of nonsense is this u asked?

I was once a man's and a woman's flesh n blood, then became someones' stepchild, then became someones' "unwanted flesh n blood cum stepchild" when both sets of men n women started producing their own.. so guess where that left me?
 
Vengence is not what I seek.. Moving on and rebuilding our lives is what I seek.. I admit theres bitterness, not towards him but myself rather.. And I do thank you for suggesting the insurance..
 
u can't change the past, but u can definitely change the future... dun let the past haunt u...

my mum's story is no less tragic, but she worked 3 jobs a day... brought up me and my step-brother, and also prepared meals for my other step-siblings... she did the right thing every step of the way and never once hounded after money that wasn't meant to be hers... never once did she repeat her story to me and expect me to think highly of her... all of us grew up with utmost respect for her cos she doesn't mention the stories nor hardship... and only 2 of us are her flesh n blood.

it doesn't matter if u're stepchild, adopted, unwanted or whatever... u make your life regardless of how u were placed here. i dun have a father for half my life but so what? everything in life from age 21 i bought myself and built myself... i dun go around talking abt how others have a father to help with their car downpayments, hdb downpayments nor wedding downpayments, there's no family loan facility nor money for further education either...

so boo hoo. u're alone with your daughter and that's a fact. whether u get 50% or 80% it's still 'dead' money. that value will dwindle... what u can do for your daughter, if u really love her so much... is not to Steal and Rob a higher percentage of your ex's money for her... but to just take what's a fair amount And do your best in Your capacity for her. even if your best is watery porridge (70% water/30% rice) with soya sauce for breakfast/lunch/dinner - u would have given her the same meals i was brought up with... filled with 100% love and effort.

break out of your stupor and hatred and do something for yourself... not fight over scraps.

i'll leave the empathy to others to give u moments to feel warmth... but the mother u really wanna be, the fire to fight for your life and daughter's - i can give u.

u decide your path from this day forward.
 
Dear powder,

I take my hats off you. A very well read article with a fair and objective view of Fallenlsis' situation.

To most women, when love is no longer a priority, money is definitely next. You can't blame Fallenlsis for trying to "protect" her daughter. With more than 10yrs of hatred, we would probably not be able to understand what she had gone through. Sometimes words in forums can only provide that much information. Lots of unhappy pasts during the 10yrs marriage would be difficult to pen them in words. There's a saying which goes "outsiders would never be able to understand what went wrong in a family".

But to be fair on the man's side, before providing more inputs I would like to listen to the other side of the story as well.
 
Whatever sufferings and frustrations that we have suffered, unfortunately it does not count for much. As much as we feel that since we have suffered so much and that we deserve more, this will not be the case.

So, it is best that we need to set realistic expectation on what we can have. Protection of daughter is natural but we can't "protect" it to the exclusion of everything else.

Mostly assets will be split 50-50 or in certain percentage that the court may award due to the contribution and circumstances. Very unlikely will it be 100-0, unless one side elect to give up.

Asking for maintenance for the wife is reasonable and the courts will award.. And child maintenance is definitely allowable. But beyond all these, we can't demand and expect 100% or 50% to daughter & 50% to split.

these expectatons are important so that we won't feel bitter and being short-changed because in all likelihood, her expectations are not realistic from a bystander point of view
 
well u dun have to go thru the full hatred for 10yrs to understand what's right or wrong... i'm hoping she dun do the wrong things and lose the respect of her kid in doing what she perceives as 'right' at this point of time.

it's funny that when there's such disputes, pple tend to say things like "u dun understand", "u didn't go thru what i go thru"... and then next moment they can quote Dr John Gray from Mars and Venus... as if he went thru exactly wat they went thru... or they quote some other articles...

that's the irony of it all... pple clutching on to straws just to justify their actions... if u know u're right, u dun even need to do that, by virtue of being right - u know u're gonna get what u wanna get.

10yrs of marriage is NOTHING if it wasn't even a marriage. it's like i have a fren for 30yrs, but we were frens from 5-10, then we met now when we're 35... 30yrs frenship just makes it sound nicer... the missing 25yrs - nobody questions.

the marriage may be 10yrs, but between - was there any maintenance or were they just housemates? is he even a father or was he just a provider? all these have to be taken into account. i dun suppose the suffering is day-after-day for a full 10yrs-term which most pple tend to want u to think.

just as girls breaking up and finding hard to let go often talk abt their relationship being 5yrs, 7yrs etc... to me it's just Not bothering to change anything for 5-7yrs... does not mean every other day the relationship was like super duper relationship-ish...
 
Fallenisis, I agree with what Powder and SM have said basically.

I have read your reply to me in the other thread before spotting this thread. The first thing that came to my mind was your husband and you could buy some insurance plans for your child. You two can also insure more for yourselves in case anything happens to either of you, your child's future financial needs would be taken care of.
 
Dear powder & sm,

I just joined this forum and I've seen alot of seniors including you both who have been giving loads of valuable advises to those unfortunate ones. It's ppl like you which makes it worth a visit for others to join this forum.

In FallenIsis' current situation, she is definitely not in the clear-state of mind. May I asked how many women can be like both of you, who is able to be so ÉƽâÈËÒâ, ¿íºê´óÁ¿, ÐĵØÉÆÁ¼ when their most important thing in the world has failed? Unless both of u are guys
happy.gif
who have been putting lots of words for them.

On the other hand, it would take alot of a women to be gracious, forgive & forget, kind and to show loads of benelovence (like u both), to a man after her marriage failed.
 
I am Chinese,

Of course it is not easy to be gracious and to forgive & forget. But at the end of the day, we can't change the past. We can only live for now and the future.

Being bitter has no benefits. Showing graciousness, forgiveness (actually is for ourselves) has a lot of positive impact to our very own lives.

We want to live happily and not in bitterness and regret. If we have children, we want to show them that we are really happy and not still cursing our Exs..

It has nothing to do with the type of people we are. It has got to do with how we want to live our lives.

Just for the record (not to say that I am great). I too have a failed marriage. My wife left me 4 years ago (she had an affair). She took away our savings (a good 6 figure).. but never for a moment was I bitter. Maybe I was disappointed or depressed in the beginning but I was never bitter not wanting to take back everything..

I rather look at what my wife had given me - many years of happiness and 3 children rather that what she has taken away - the money and the future happiness. Money can be earned. Future happiness is in our hands. I took it that the money she took was for her to have given me many years of happiness..

I can't change what has happened but I can shape the future. I am in good relationship with my wife as I believe this is the best for my children. Me being happy and not bitter gave hope to my children that they too can be happy. In fact, it was my children that are still bitter and I have to show example to forgive my wife.. so that the children too can forgive her.. only when they can forgive her - then they too can be happy.

I am not gracious or great. I am just living smartly to ensure my own happiness and my own children's happiness. If I am still bitter with my wife.. do you think my children would be really happy?
 
sm,

no nono.... I dare not to be not happy leh.. lol..

on the contrary.. I prefer lao peh peh companion.. whahahaha
 
hi IAC,

tks for kind words... just to be fair, i think sm, myself and many other forummers here whether they've been here longer or not - have all had our demons to deal with, and have our stories...

trials n tribulations are part of life, whether u're male or female, rich or poor, chinese or malay. when pple get out of their problems, it's becos they found clarity and strength... when they go round in circles, it's becos they have not found either. while there may be gender-traits, it's unlikely to be becos one is male or female. (unless gender-related problems).

all i can say is this... the most important factors that help me solve and get out of problems fast, are Not empathising listener type of frens... they are the ones who give me the harsh choices of A, B or C. there are no Maybes, False Hopes, Patronising, nor time spent hugging. for this i am ever-grateful to my frens, but i guess i have to give myself some credit for moving on faster than most pple. the Reason why i move faster is becos i love and respect Life more than most pple actually give thought to... i see Life as Bigger than me, my relationships, etc etc... i think that perspective helps... Our Life isn't summed up in a few years, not a few months... it spans 40-60yrs? all the problems are only here Now, can be a few minutes, hours etc... does it matter when u know it will come to pass?

alot of things in life take alot from us... it's the case everyday of our life... Why do we need to say it takes alot, and then we just stand there refusing to give alot? if it takes alot - then give alot... give double! and the problem is solved, isn't it?

alot of things are easier said than done... obviously it's easy to say i wanna jog 5km, than to actually enjoy jogging 5km without any aches. is this a new discovery? Point is - we can jog that 5km rite? at the end of it, what do we lose??? it is so human to simply wanna tell everyone that we have to jog 5km, and wait for empathy, sympathy, envy or whatever. we want the world to empathise that's fine... but u can't be declaring day after day for 5yrs that u wanna jog 5km and expect the same level of empathy...

fact - pple Get Sick of u! even i get sick of myself if i find myself wallowing for too long.

Lastly - when u wanna empathise, tell them the Truth. dun lie to make pple feel good... nobody gets 100%, even if the judge is Daddy, he's not gonna give u 100%. if that is wrong, that is wrong... being a victim, being the abused, being watever - does not change the need for Fairness in judgement.
 
Dear sm & powder,

I've read a couple of times your replies. And I'm correct that I "predicted" that both of you are guys who have been putting in a number of kind words for the male lead in this thread.

Yes, I do agree wholeheartedly that we should not be living in the past and we should move on in life. I do agree with sm for not forgetting what your wife had given you, which is happiness. A lot of divorce are due to people are only willing to pinpoint faults with each other and they failed to realise that "hey we do have many happy times/moments also". In a relationship, we cannot always remember the negative (»µ) things of our spouse, we must always remember their goods (ºÃ) as well. It's simple things like these which makes relationship last.

Out of 10 SG guys, I believe there are at least 6-7 guys who would be like sm, giving their ex-wife a sum of $ and not being bitter about it and hoping them they would live well with their next relationship. I guess, responsibility is one of the greatest strength in SG man.

But as far as I'm concern, we are dealing with a SG woman in this situation. sm & powder are definitely trying their best to "brainwash" the female lead in a good way, which is almost similar to "·Å϶Àµ¶ Á¢µØ³É·ð". But the issue is, how many SG women can really do that? I don't have the numbers, but as far as I'm concern, the probability is nearly 0, at least to my circle of friends.
 
i am chinese,

NOt true. I know many divorced women. some are cheated both emotionally and financially.. some still paying debts of ex-hb. and NO.. they are not necessary bitter. Disappointed, sad, depressed.. yes definitely.. Some are bitter in the beginning but improve later. YOu may say it is easier for guys but why can't girls do it? It is a mental thing that they need to overcome..

I didn't brain wash them. But when they can see possibility of happiness by letting go.. they will know what they are in for. Some of them have children in which their hb didn't maintain. that did not stop them from being happy or even in another relationship.

The worse I can see with these women is that they got together with similar women in the same plight.. then they like to bash their ex.. It is really self-fulfilling.. and made them much more difficult to let go.

For some of my female divorcees.. I managed to break into their circle and gave them another perspective.. they always say they have children.. blah blah blah.. I told them I have 3. And when they look at me, they realized that it is much better to let go and be happy..
 
and no.. we don't have kind words for male lead. we just analyze a case as it is. To be I am gender neutral.. there are also men who are bent on revenge when their wives betrayed them. I have one friend who beat the lights out of his wife when his wife had an affair.

It serves no purpose. He regretted his action but it was too late. Wife has PPO against him and he can't even be near the children...

I would like people to get out of their circle - their circle of friends (who would all give them same advices.. all complain about exs?).. but most importantly get out of the circle of thoughts of bitterness and not letting go..

Of course it is easier said than done. But if we always think it is difficult and not try... it will always be there.

But if you try, take a small step at a time.. Very soon you will be surprised at how far you can walk..
 
I am Chinese

Let me read you right.....Your quoting the statistics is to back up your point that since there is hardly any woman who can be gracious on the split, we shouldn't even expect a woman to be gracious?

But being gracious is a human trait, not just confined to men.
 
My thoughts are that there are definitely gracious women around.. just as there are petty men around.

the fact that even women who wanted to be gracious.. and their group of women friends are those who who band together to bash men.. blah blah blah.. even these women would keep quiet ..

Of course the more independent women would walk away and make their own decisions. after all, we are responsible for our own happiness.. our circle of friends can only talk and comment..

Graciousness or not.. it is for us to decide how we want to lead our lives... we let go and not hang on to the past, the happier we can be.. Many people know this and yet these people refuse to let go because they don't feel good about forgiving or giving way to people that they perceived had done them wrong.
 
I believe the level of graciousness it depend on the woman financial independence, at the moment they decided to split.
What do you expect TS, a woman who can barely support herself and daughter to feel more gracious when bread and butter is her next main concern after this? We are not talking about 1 or 2yrs. its 10 -20 yrs more to support the child solely. She probably expect no child maintance from the father in future and she can't work.
My advice is if TS can try to get he compromise please try. Otherwise if cannot talk at all, just have to wait for judgment day lor. Let the law decide for you.
Sadly, just a word of complain, well not for empathy. I am one of the suay type, met the minority 30% Sg stingy man as describe above. If he were more generouse like sm describe, at least can talk, things would have been easier.
 
Carrie

Because TS is going to lose her husband, she has to ensure her own financial independence not for 1-2 years but a few decades like you have pointed out. She did say she will ask for child maintenance from her husband. Being the mother, she is also responsible for her child's financial needs. Wouldn't it be wiser to start working on that instead of hoping to rely on him to provide all their financial needs?
 
doLL, TS was married for so long and not use to becoming independent, when met such situation its not as easy as powder describe to get up on the feet immediately. Powder mom also when thru alot to bring up 3 kids, not overnight and not 1 or 2 yrs.

The picture is like holding on the edge of a cliff on right hand and left hand holding a child, trying to climb up the edge.
You are talking about after she climbed up or fall from the cliff. So planning for long run and you are definately right, She and her child will fall if soley depend on the father for $$. If she dont stand put in effort to build a stable income she will suffer lah, but I believe she be able to do that later for the child. All mother will do everything for the child.

But, now she is hanging, there is a hope of string hanging near her, if she grap this $$ line, she will have easiler life at least for the next few years. Give her time to build back her confidence, independence and career.

Greedy and Surviver is just a thin line drawn. Depend on each point of view, there is no right or wrong. She need help, don't boo her.
 
Benefit of doubt pal, this is a forum, what do you expect. She protray herself as a sickly person, so I advice her this.
She claim she is a part-timer, so I assume not a high income earner.
She definately need some advice, which is why she wrote here.
 
Dear doLL,

Apologises if I've offended any women in this thread. What i'm trying to emphasize is that in my circle of friends, there probably isn't any women who would be gracious/kind enough to put up with a failed marriage and ended up with nothing (no alimony, no cash, no property).

But I do have a colleague's auntie who actually done the opposite. When I meant auntie here (I'm in my early thirties), it means that this colleague's auntie is already way way much matured than among all my peers. She is already finacially well to do, drives her own car, got her own investment/properties. As such, she is in such a good financial situation, she can probably forgo such alimony/properties when she divorced her husband.

But in this current thread, we cannot say so about the female lead over here.

All in all, I feel that situation and the person's characteristic will decide the amount of alimonies, properties during a split.

An example would be a guy who is financially well to do, well educated, with a 5 digit payroll per mth. He had a joint acccount with his wife. Years later, found that wife got other guy and there isn't any love in the relationship. This guy gives up the marriage, gave the ex wife an amount of money and moves on with his life. This particular guy doesn't lose everything, he still got his education cert, his 5 digit per mth salary and that could be a main reason that he can forgives and forgets easily.
In another words, I believe situations, age probably define the needs & wants of a certain person in a failed marriage.
 
if you read her initial post carefully, she did mentioned her need to find a full-time job so there is no need for you to assume that she is sickly and she can't work ..

she is a part-timer because she wants to spend more time with her daughter - if you read her other post, you would know this ..

and please don't call me pal cos i'm not your pal.
 
Carrie, TS is facing a long-term change of lifestyle that would need long-term solution. Plus, she will never get 100% of joint assets and savings, so why would I want to encourage her to chase after the wind? At the max, she can claim (may not get) 50% of the 50% that belongs to her husband. I felt she should understand where her limits are. Also, buying more insurance like education and savings for her child would make better sense for long-term financial planning don't you agree?
 
I got what you mean doLL, I am just thinking, insurance also have no security as the father can withdraw the cash value in future even if he agree to contribute now for the daughter. Is there anyway to prevent the father from withdrawing the cash then?
 
IAC,

this is the part that u lost me... "I've read a couple of times your replies. And I'm correct that I "predicted" that both of you are guys who have been putting in a number of kind words for the male lead in this thread."

i have no idea how u came to derive at that. it's not kind words, If u're suggesting that i'm speaking up for a guy becos i'm a guy... then u have made the big error of judgment and it makes your credibility very suspect.

u guessed that guys will speak up for guys and u guess that just cos i'm a guy i will speak up for her hubby??? are u kidding me???

telling her that she cannot get 100%, and telling her that she cannot just hold false hopes for 100%, and telling her that she has to stay upright and fair in judgement...

i am speaking up for her hubby???

read the thread title, "Seek advice on Alimony"... so should i give a Feel-Good advice for her to feel good over the forum, then find out that Reality is totally different... or should i give her Reality now?

i dun understand some of u... and i specifically said that i leave the empathy to others... i'm only good if u seriously wanna rebuild your life... for that i am confident. last thing i need is for some of u to tell me i dun know how to make pple feel good or that i protect the hubby becos he is a guy...

all u guys can do is just harp on a 10yrs marriage that has past.

u're not interested in her happiness for the rest of her life. absolutely not interested at all... u're just using this as a platform to feed your coloured views that 'men help men, all men are crap'... it's this agenda u carry with u and u're out to recruit women to share this belief...

happiness? i dun see that as something any of u want at all...

harp harp harp... harp harp harp...

ps: read the 1st post - "Bad news for me, whatever joint accounts or investments profits to be split 50:50.". answer is here liao.
 
"I got what you mean doLL, I am just thinking, insurance also have no security as the father can withdraw the cash value in future even if he agree to contribute now for the daughter. Is there anyway to prevent the father from withdrawing the cash then?"

How would the father be able to surrender the policy for cash if the plans are bought by the mother? That brings us back to the point that it's important that she finds her own means to survive. This is the best form of security when you take it into your hands, and not depend on other people to provide. She should find a full-time job as soon as possible.
 
Hey cuclainne take it easy ok, she did mention about her physical problem "5) during childbirth I had a spinal injury and was diagnosed with osteoarthritis, which made me very reliant on the " and "helper.. and with my back's deterioting (am only 34 but the back structure of a 60 plus) its impossible to sit nor stand nor walk for long hours (already twice lost full-time jobs!) I can only try protect my daughter's welfare and future.."
Maybe sickly is a wrong word but she is worrying about sustaining a job 10yrs down the road.
 
the court will decide what is fair to award to both parties. you can listen to your lawyer and try ask for the sky, but do u tink the judge is stupid?
 
"All in all, I feel that situation and the person's characteristic will decide the amount of alimonies, properties during a split."

I Am Chinese, you are so wrong. The judge is the one to decide. Both parties can propose and counter-propose. But the judgement does not defer from documented precedence.
 
We can surely cheer TS on to claim 100% of everything, to make her feel good. But in reality things don't work this way. Do we speak counter to truth of things? Why can't we just get real with TS?
 
"That brings us back to the point that it's important that she finds her own means to survive. This is the best form of security when you take it into your hands, and not depend on other people to provide. She should find a full-time job as soon as possible."

I support doll's points that TS must find her means to survive. The alimony isn't enough to feed her & child forever leh
 
carrie, my mum's suffering was meant to be a source of strength, not a platform to cry father cry mother and bitch abt men... just to let u know where i'm coming from...
 
dear powder,

u misunderstood me. I'm not saying that guys should be helping guys in this forum. I strongly believe when a relationship breaks down and these affected women whom have penned down their sorrows in this forums, it's likely that women who have been reading their thread would sympathise with them because they are all women.

Base on your replies in this thread, you are not supporting the male lead definitely. It's pretty obvious that you are trying to let TS to forgive & forget and be less greedy about alimonies and find true happiness by moving on with life.

I find your post very helpful and informative and it's an eye opener for loads of us who have been following this thread. But then again, when someone who isn't in a clear state of mind, would they be able to absorb your inputs? That's another story liao.
 
carrie,

arrrghhhh... u guys should REALLY read without coloured glasses...

i meant a source of strength to the TS... the whole idea behind me sharing was to lend the TS strength that she can do it without having to resort to unreasonable behaviour and expectations.

not where my mum got her source of strength from leh...
 
"I find your post very helpful and informative and it's an eye opener for loads of us who have been following this thread. But then again, when someone who isn't in a clear state of mind, would they be able to absorb your inputs? That's another story liao."

I Am Chinese, these advices may not be music to the ear for TS now, but I believe she will find it useful later when her mind clears up. After all, issues have to be looked at sooner or later. No one said she must absorb everything now.
 


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