I am at a loss

yahw at powder say is correct...
sales those valuables if any....
better than nth...hope u deal wif tis prob positively...life is full of obstacles....
v wil al b here giving u moral support...
but wat did yr sis buy...frm young she is like tis??big spender n does not hav d $$ mind??how hard to earn $$ n how to spend wisely...
 


powder, sad_gal

Yes, she has many credit cards. Almost from all the banks and all were approved. I asked her why she needs so many credit cards. She just told me some of them gave it to her...

she doesn't like me to ask questions. She will either ignore me or shout at me, told me not to bother her. Once in a while, i will just tell her to control spending, not to sign, sign, sign.

The huge debt is lost in shares and gambling. I didn't see any gold watches, bags or anything. I told her she has to sell whatever she has.

powder, i think i am very dumb, a fool.

I save on myself. Whatever I have, I put into the family. Yet, I am treated like this. I feel they don't appreciate me at all. I seem to be the only sensible person in the family. Always clearing the shift for them.

yes sad_gal, life is full of obstacles. I grow up because of this. I get stronger but I feel old.

Sometimes i wonder if one day i am gone, will they miss me?
 
thots,if 1 day u were gone, thy wil feel witout u, life is hard to go on...as thy has get use for yr help...
but not sure bout missg u...
i am same like u, giv all my salary helpg m family but luckily i m married so i hav my hb to takecare of me n don need my salary...but its tiring as v wrk n d $ all used to help my youngest bro.stimes m tinkg, worth it??but i stil cant bear to c my youngest bro in deep shit coz for me, he is sooo young only 18, n his mind is not mature yet...wat v can do is giv him chance...he is same like yr sis, whn i question him, he wil shout at me n ask me not to bother...but end up he wil stil ask help frm us...one way, is it ok to re-sale d hse n buy a smaller hse/cheaper under yr name n yr father??n d instalment is frm cpf..n thn tel yr sis, tis wil b d las time u help n since d hse is sell, no way d family can help out...n thn mayb get her to pay for d instalment mthly to u/yr dad...i believe she shld b able to pay rite wif her salary....i can only tink tat as my mom did lie to my youngest bro v sold d hse n no more $$ to help him if he goes on like tis...
 
Thots, I would suggest that you do let them do whatever they deem fit for them after you had expend your advices and effort.

Firstly seemed that your sister don't care more of consequences and having the mentality that others will clear the shit for her. Like many had said, it's not surprising if she's still incurring expenses while you are worrying on how to clear her debt as of now.

What's more ideal for you to do now is to preserve your financial strength than getting into liability for her. Try to return those loans you got back from friends and the others.

If they wanna sell the house, let them. Till they hit the pit bottom, your dad would realised what your sister had brought the family into. Let bankrupcy bound your sister to be taught the lesson dueing for her.

At the meantime, while conserving your finance, you can still help to provide the neccessities for your family when everything hits rock bottom. Otherwise, you would just be a victim of so called "family ties". At least someone has to be rational in order to bail the family to carry on living with food and shelter.
 
sad_girl81,

It would be never ending unless the person involved comes to.

Selling the house isn't a very ideal solution. As per my knowledge and views, this is why I don't think it works out well.

Firstly, Sister is only 27. Hence new house has to be bought together with Dad. We have to see how old is the Dad, if he is still working and how many years loan would he still be able to qualify from banks. Plus the financial status of sister, banks will definitely take into consideration.

Secondly, after sale of house, portion of it has to return to the Dad's CPF, before being wiped out together with sister's CPF for the downpayment for the new place before the loan. I do not know how much CPF the Sister has, but likely should not be able to cover fully the purchase of the new flat hence she would thought of servicing it with her cpf. With her pay of 2000/month, Very likely she would need to top up with Cash(which could be quite portion of her take home pay) due to the short loan period that the father qualifies for due to age factor. With daughters aging 27 and 30, I doubt he could get another 30 years loan.

Then worst case scenario (likely), Being bailed out, the sister will go on a spending rampage again. Vicious cycle. I am still more pro of making the sister a bankrupt, at least still free of worries in regards to shelter/food for everyone and then work on clearing the status than adding on to more liabilities.
 
Thots, some of us are giving you advises from our very own experiences.

End of the day, u have to make the call and decide wat to do.

Watever your decision is, be strong....and stay positive and happy for yourself. Must always think for yourself.....
 
thots,
I agree with the rest of the folks here that you should NOT get yourself into further debt to help your sister.

Further down the road, your dad might still go ahead and sell the flat. The last thing your dad need is 2 daughters both heavily in debt and no house to live in.

Let your sister grow up. She is 27, not 17.

And please do start saving part of your income each month. You should start paying off some of the personal loans made to you by your friends, but I would caution against using all net income (minus expenses) to do this at the moment. Do save some of the money for yourself, please.

Most importantly, do not give all your remaining money to your sis to help further with her debt. Remember, you do not owe her this.

The safe thing to do is to have some savings and enough to get by so that you can afford to rent a place and pay for your dad's expenses.

In fact, I would even go as far as to suggest that if you feel that by living at home, you are being harassed and pressured to take over the debt, then maybe you should move out for the time being and let your sis sort things out herself (or be forced into bankruptcy, which might be about the best she could hope for right now).

Get yourself a place to stay. Save some money. Be prepared to support your dad when the time comes and he loses his home.
 
wel bee hiam,
coz i knw how thots feel...
its hard to say no to family esp yr own dad whn he asked for help...eventually if she don help, i believ his dad wil definitely sell d hse to help youngest sis...end up wat bout d dad??she wil stil hav to help d dad...i believ thots wil b sad if she don help d dad...
but again, thots, its jus opinion n talks tat v can help u n lend our ears for u, so u mus stand up n make yr own decision...
 
Yep I get what you mean. Trust me I also know how she feels. But via selling the flat is just transferring the debt. And if you can't keep up this time round, you run the risk of losing your shelter. I see shelter and food more important than the status of being a bankrupt.

It would ultimately cause more stress to the entire family with high risk of a unrepending sis. Then, the whole scenario would be even worse off.

Such a move was carried out by someone close to me in bid to liquidate his business previously. In the end the business failed and in a way, now I am servicing 2 flats. Mine and his because he could not keep up with the monthly due. I know how tough it is and it'll be even worst if there's a splurging party digging the hole deeper.

Such traits can be seen when the sister already ask the Dad to sell the flat to bail her out. I mean, what sort of mentality constitutes that?

Keep the flat, at least there is still a place to stay for the family and TS can still concentrate her aid on necessities. Sister will be made bankrupt but good. No more cards for her and work on the route to clear the status.

Sell the flat, have to keep up with the payment thereafter. Anything happen and can't keep up, say bye bye to your shelter. Running the risk of too much variables here.
 
ark, blood is thicker than water but the sister is leeching on the blood. She is screwing her father up and dragging everyone down. Least she had learnt her mistakes and taking responsibilities of her action, which I do not see a tinge here.

What's the big deal of declaring a bankrupt when you just have to work yourself out of it? She's selfishly opting for the easier way to bail herself out, on the expenses of others and passing her liabilities to them. You are at least helping your sister if you are harsh to her now TS. I personally feel that bailing her now is just condoning her.
 
thots,

nope u're not a fool or anything... u're just soft-hearted. IF u have a soft-heart, it is Very impt to also have a very forward-looking mind, else u'll need very good frens to hold u back from making soft-hearted decisions but short-term solutions...

it simply means that the good things u try to do to help Today, may escalate to e bigger problem Tomoro.

your sis is the kind of pple i Fear most... those who give lame reasons and expect pple to accept the reasons... but then in spore, alot of pple give lame reasons and get away with it without being questioned on the kind of stupid reasons given. ie "I asked her why she needs so many credit cards. She just told me some of them gave it to her..."

this are the type of stupid reasons pple give and get away with... so these pple go on giving these lame reasons Until a point they convinced themselves as well. They lose themselves in their own lies and they justify themselves with the same lies. after a couple of years - they really think the banks force a credit card down their throat to encourage spending... so it's the Bank's fault, not hers...

i'm getting the impression that your dad is open to accepting such reasons? and expecting u to clear most of the sh!t... if so, my Longterm solution for u is very very tough... it requires u to leave your family, dun look back, and to build a life Outside... live on your own and gain your own independence.

there's little value in staying in a family that lays its burden on u at a young age, where members are not even the least aware of their faults. Personally, i'd put in effort taking care of a repentent Stranger, than a recalcitrant family member... but tat's my thinking.

where Help creates lame Dependency... Help is a Detrimental.
 
now d main prob is d sis doesnt want to declare bankrupt n worst part nagging his dad to sell d hse to settle her debt...n i can c tat her dad does reali lov n pamper tis 27 yrs old sis...mayb v shld change n tink how to help to advice her sis to change mind...
 
It is never easy to try to change someone's mind and there is only so much 'advice & nagging' could do.
Sometimes people need to learn it the hard way, and we need to know when to let go.
You can't change what other people think or do.
The only thing you can do is change the way you handle the situation and to stop being the victim of the situation.
 
To make someone see the whole picture, the receiver has to also open up his mind. Judging from the sister's behaviour and response, she ain't slightly remorseful about it at all. She should get the impact at her face to learn what others had been shouldering for her all these while. In the name of ties and kinship.

It's not even wanting or not to declare bankrupt. It's her responsibility to face it. How long can you keep up helping someone like that? It's like na... I screw it up but nevermind. Someone will settle it for me kinda mentality unless I really kenna it myself, otherwise, tough to learn.
 
thanks everyone here for all the inputs. i am reading... though my mind is swarming with thoughts.

i am not keen to sell the flat because that is only the shelter we have. I ask myself questons. Why isn't my sister coming to update me what she has done? Who do i keep going to her and ask her what is the status? She still has not get back to me whether she can call the banks. Why isn't she looking into how to get the money, a second job or something? But it is me who is thinking.

I am glad that i did not grow up like hers. If i am like her, my home will have gone.

i think soft-hearted is my weakness. everytime, my sister and dad 'soft talk' me, i give in... ok i know dumb of me. i think they know how to handle me.
 
It's in human nature to have a softer side. But thots, you have to think of the long term now. You know your sister well better than anyone of us here sharing with you. Do you honestly think that your sister will come to light after you'll bail her out with your last chip?

Or is it much likely worsen the family situation to come? I believe your father is entering retirement and soon be in his ailing old age. It's time that you should also be looking onto possible medical expenses that might incurred. Nothing would stop at where it is at now. Hence why I share with you about conserving your financial strength and life lines for assistances. If you toss in your final chip, can you imagine 5 - 10 years from now?

It's simple to weight. Ur sis declare bankrupt. She can still work, repay debts and feed herself with a shelter to come back to. By selling the flat just entittle her to the privilledge of a non-bankrupt and clear her debts, while an additional liability for everyone in the family.

Someday she might want to get married, move out and have her own flat. But her cpf lock up with the new flat. What then?
 
my dad is 61. he is not working.
i have been the sole breadwinner until my sister enter work force. even now, i contribute most of household income.

she is proposing if i love her, i should take buy a flat with my dad so that next time if she get married, she will not get tied down by the flat. I ask her what about me? she can't answer me. i feel she doesn't care.

if she refuse to declare, can the banks declare her?

will the banks take away the flat? the flat is under my dad's name.
 
That's where she is biting at. Family ties. Pushing it to all of you all in the name of family ties. Pardon me for saying but I feel that she is a parasite. Selfish to the extend she has no rights to talk about love.

Anyway, if she refuse to declare, I believe the banks will take legal actions and she would be declared a bankrupt if she is unable to pay up. And since the flat is under your dad's name, no, they would not be able to possess the flat.

Please don't take the rap for her. You have to plan for yourself and your Dad for you seem to be the only one that he can rely on in time to come.
 
hi thots,
i tink every1 esp woman is born soft hearted esp to our family...
n its a normal dons ay yrself dumb...
i am alwis soft hearted helpg even tot i hav no $$ cent....
but a sudden tot pop up in my mind...wil yr sis go in more debt (i mean in loan shark) if she is out of way??tats more scary dear......sorry i don mean to scare u o make u feel worst...its jus tot coz i knw a lot ppl who r like tat!!!
 
thots,

Nobody can choose their family and certainly nobody wishes to be in a situation like yours.

However, it is very important for you to realise that your actions at this point will directly contribute or lessen the problem in the future.

YOU ARE CREATING THE FUTURE NOW.

From the sound of it, your sister and dad are totally hopeless at solving the bigger issue so you are left with yourself and your good sense.
Please do not let them sway you away from your good sense, no matter what sort of emotional blackmail they may subject you to.
You should know by now that if your sister had any sense she wouldn't be in her current situation.

Do think ahead into the future and the possible repercussions of your decisions. Do not bank on your sister changing her ways. Be prepared for the 'worst case scenario' instead of the 'best case scenario'.

Advice and support are all we can offer you for now. I hope your good sense will prevail.
 
thots, ur sis sound so much like my brother...both are equally idiotics and selfish!

They only think of themselves, everything is about them......we are nothing, simply ATM machines and they will try all means to squeeze us dry...sigh...
 
hi thots,

ever heard of Aron Ralston? the mountain climber who severed his trapped right arm in the rock in order to Survive?

if not for this bold and decisive action, he would be dead with an intact body long long time ago. he's alive and kicking now...

i know it's hard to get urself estranged from ur loved ones, she's flesh & blood... but it's obvious she's digging her own grave...

and u want to die along wif her?
 
i ustand whn v hav close family who is suckg our blood n tinkg v r atm....
las time my dad is like tat but luckily he wokes up n now my youngest bro turn!!!which is reali sad...hope one days my bro wil wake up!!
same to u thots, jia you n b strong thr....
 
Thots,

May I suggest that you take some time off to clear your mind? It can be difficult to decide on a course of action when you're constantly worrying.

After you’ve taken a step back, ask yourself - what are your fears if you do not help your sister according to her ways? - That your dad & sister may perceive you as being heartless and cut off ties with you? That your sister may harm herself if she did not get the help that she wants? That you might perceive yourself as having failed your duties as a sister/mother for not protecting her? It may be good to talk about these to someone you trust, as it is likely to be on your mind and may interfere in your decision-making process.

Then, consider what are the options? Eg
- Go according to what your sister wants – what are the consequences? Think there were many comments that discouraged you from walking this path and you don’t seem keen in this approach, for obvious reasons...
- Let go and don’t help your sister at all, let her learn her lessons the hard way. From your posts, I gathered that you most probably wouldn’t choose this path too…
- Come up with your plan to help the family, even if it deviates from what your dad and your sister wants.

I’m assuming that you would prefer the last option, although you’re unsure of the how the plan should look like and how to get your dad & sister to cooperate with you.

I’m afraid I don’t have any good suggestions about how the plan should look like. However, I don’t think it’s a good idea to behave as though you are the one who has incurred the debts. Remind yourself that you did not incur the debts, and your sister needs to take action if she does not want to be a bankrupt. From what I know, even if she procrastinate and refused to take any action, the banks may still proceed with legal action on their part (ie, not taking action on her part is also leading to some consequences. Time won’t stop for her just because she refused to look at it).

You may also want to consider if there are any relatives/friends whom your dad is close to. Can they help to talk to your dad? To help him be more aware of the more rational choices that he can make to help your sister?

It is sad when family used terms like “if you love me, you should…â€. However, don’t fall into the trap. You know best how much you love your family.

Do take care.
 
Well when dad sell the house, debts paid off and maybe there is additional $ for her to spend. Well selling the dad house is not the solution of the problem. It only encourage her that no matter how things are, family will be there to bail her out.
 
Move out of the household, change yr mobile number, just disapper. They will learn to fence for themselves when they discover the 'baby sitter' is gone ... if you are worried ( of course you will be ), try to get someone to secretly watch over them.. They will hv to wake up and face the truth. Be strong and take care.
 
thanks everybody.

It is no use I am worrying day and night and the person who creates this has not done anything. I asked her whether she has done anything? has she called the banks? The answer I received is, she has no mood to call! She wins.

I will just pay off the more critical accounts with the amount I have borrowed. I will have another talk with her later.

i hope i can disappear but i still need to work. she knows where i am working.
 
you're letting your sister get away scot-free without taking any responsibilities for her actions .. does it make sense for you to be paying her debts? like this, she can borrow money from loanshark also you will diligently pay back .. all because she's your sister.

if she cares for you, she won't drag you down with her.
 
Thots, real siblings don't give each other such troubles. My siblings and I will try to help one another, and not expect help to come to us. That's what you call siblings.
 
Thots, hv you spoken to her? Really worry for you, have to shoulder all this when you can have a better life... really, you shd not go on helping yr sis. .. if yr father disown you bcos you choose not to help her.. so be it. If you father is rational enough ( sorry , i don mean to comment on yr father ), he shd know he shd not drag you down cos of a cans of worms the other daughter open up. how many flats can he sell? If there is no asset to sell, will he want you to 'sell' yr self? I may be harsh.. but it is time to live yr own life, 25k already under yr account, this bundle is heavy enough,.you hv done yr part as a responsbile sister.
 
Yes, i have talked to her. I made her called the banks. I was beside her when she called the banks. I was really angry because she still gave me those don't care attitude. She doesn't pick my calls, banks' call and reply my messages. I really want to give up but as usual my dad pleaded me to help. He said she will die if i don't help. I think maybe he rather see me die. Anyway, I have told him I will help with the amount I have now. I am not getting bank loans.

I can't help feeling depressed over this. I know she is getting away scot-free but I can't handle emotional threats. I think I have done my part. Maybe to them, I didn't do enough.
 
Thots, if u can, ignore ur dad's plead....i told u about my bro? my sis also ignored my mum's plead after she gave up on my bro..My mum know it's useless to ask my sis after a lot of attempts that she stop doing it.....
 
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