Anyone planning a SG wedding but currently in Australia?

[jacq23]

hi miss lala, like marg said best to start collating all the docos for the visa application i.e. greeting cards u hav sent each other, letters, photos, cards/letters ppl/organisations have addressed to the both of u etc. i remember having to do this twice, first for my temp resident then for permanent resident so expert on this now

hehe...happy to help if u have any questions.

yes emi and marg, i'm keen to meet up when marg gets here. we can even do some last minute shopping for marg's big day!!

 

[jacq23]

oops yes the chye tow kway is the black one but i think u can ask for the white one.they fry it with prawns and calamari so quite authentic la!

good luck with the work transfer request, ms lala hope it turns out well otherwise the job market appears to be pretty good recently so no worries.

 

[margiel]

Thanks Jacq & emi, so sweet of u welcoming me for my arrival!!

We can go makan-ing together as well.. so happie

 

[margiel]

Oh btw i have some of my pre-wedding pics at my Multiply. I need to add u in to view if you have Multiply acct. Am happie to share my pics with u gals here.

 

[jacq23]

hi guys for anyone who is on a lookout for bridal packages, i found this link in another thread and thought it to be pretty useful in prepping for the battle of bargaining, SG style! http://www.myshopping.sg/shopping_tips_details.asp?id=25

jacq

 

[jacq23]

margie, love ur pics, so cute east meets west..hee..when were these taken? i'm planning to do my PS in Jan next yr when i'm back in SG although it'll be pretty rushy considering that i'm hoping to find a BS in the first week i arrive in SG!!

emi, i know your buddy claire. we went to the same secondary school!!

 

[eminozy]

JacQ, no shit! Big possibility i am trying to go to her wedding in August! hehehe. we are very close and we share about this cross cultural marriage thinga lot, she lives in carlton now.

Maybe i should tell her.. shes like soooo stress right now.. i always laugh at her!

 

[joliebird]

Margie, I loved your pics! They're beautiful. It's too bad that you're moving so soon!
*Joliebird's on the wrong side of the fence!!!* ;_;

Perhaps you, me and Miss Lala (have I missed anybody else?) can go for a bite or shopping for wedding stuff one evening before you depart sg, and we can meet the rest of you when you come over for your weddings! Happy to lend a hand in the preparation of your big day.

Made brownies and cookies today. Cookies were ok - a litle soft - but the brownies turned out cake-like and a little doughy in the centre and not chewy and crackly as I was hoping they would be.

 

[margiel]

Jacq mine was taken end April this yr. Have to wait for album collection in 2 weeks time. You can start hunting now (online for u perhaps

), at least can make enquiry to see if your prefered BS has the available date for your PS. Mine was quite last minute. When i entered the shop, 1st thing i have to ask "Is this date available?" we only have that day for PS. Albums usually need 1-1.5mth to do up, think they can make it exceptional for you. Enjoy the process, it is fun!

Jolie, thanks, are u referring to the scenic pics? heheee if u have an acct, i can add u in to view my pre-wedding photoshoots

Sure! I'm pretty free for now till July....... cos im 'on leave' & will be jobless in a week time *soooob soob!!!!!* U can PM me to arrange, but also need to get Lala too. Good try on ur baking! Hope the next one would be better

 

[joliebird]

Miss Lala, tried to pm you, but you aren’t able to accept private msgs…

Margiel - pm'd you. Yes, I was refering to the scenery pics. I didnt' know you had bridal pics as well! Wish I could see them, but I don’t have a multiply account!

For those who are into cupcake making, have you tried using those silicone muffin trays?
I only wish to buy one set – either metal or silicone, but not both. Which are better for baking / more versatile?
Are the muffins easier to remove from the silicone ones if I do not use patty cake cases? Will they stick and crack when I try to turn the silicone inside out?
Am I able to use pattycake cases in the silicone ones if I want to? Looking for advice from the cupcake experts!

I was eyeing the silicone ones for the longest time in Aust, and was intending to buy a set for myself when I moved out…but I haven’t been able to find them in the main department stores on Orchard Rd so far. Any suggestions where else to try?

 

[jacq23]

hi emi, yeah man such a small world! i used to see claire's sister a bit cos she was going out with a friend's friend...don't think i have spoken to claire before though...it would be good to see a familiar face in melb and to meet new friends also

my partner thinks it's the funniest thing that i'm on this forum bcos i used to be so anti-web and would tease him for meeting up with his car forum "buddies"...haha guess i spoke too soon..heh

margie, thanks for the heads-up. my future MIL is pretty optimistic that we would be able to get everything sorted out when we are in SG next Jan so hopefully the BS would be equally compromising.

btw does anyone know if it's normal practice to NOT invite everyone who attends the mid morning church wedding to the lunch reception afterwards? We intend to have the traditional tea ceremony/lunch after church in future PIL's house so trying to keep it as private as possible? Is it rude though? Any thoughts?

 

[jacq23]

hi joliebird

not sure if anyone responded to ur thread earlier re: bridesmaid dresses? i would probably be getting material n then getting a tailor to make the dresses. most of my friends did their b'maid's dresses at a seamstress in katong shopping centre. quite affordable, the lady charged abt $75 per dress so including material, you should expect to spend just under $150. alternatively i found this on another thread which is a much cheaper option - http://shopshopaway.blogspot.com/

 

[peanutbutta]

Hey girls,

Quick update on my wedding plans... Mum's FINALLY booked the hotel reception in SG (after 3 months of negotiating with them). Think she ended up getting pretty good deal.. managed to get us upgraded to a presidential suite.. they waived the corkage... got an extra room for FH's family to stay in for 2 nights. Don't remember the exact details. Anyway, that's sorted.. and FH's dad's booked the taiwan reception venue too.

Apart from that, I haven't made any progress with my preparations. Mum will be down in 2 weeks so I'll prolly go dress hunting then. Still don't know what i'm gonna do with my bridesmaid's dresses. Plus I still can't decide on my final bridesmaid.

Jacq, $75 for a dress is so cheap! Maybe I should consider getting them made in SG instead of buying them from Aust (they'll cost about $250 here). How would that work tho? Coz my bridesmaids are all over the place. 1 in SG (so that's ok coz she can do the fittings over there).. my sis is here with me and my last bridesmaid will be either in country WA or Sydney. Hmmm... maybe i can just get their measurements? Would that work?

Jolie.. I was looking for silicon cupcake cases over the weekend but couldn't find any

I'm looking for the individual ones tho, not the trays. They're really pretty and come in light pastel colours. Tried Myer but they didn't have any. Heard they're pretty good for baking and the cakes/muffins pop out pretty easily.

Jacq (again), I think it's alright to keep the tea ceremony private and invite only close family and friends. I don't even think you need to tell everyone that you're having a lunch reception after the church (just say you're having a tea ceremony at PIL's place and a small lunch and I don't think they'll expect to be invited). Just invite them to the church and dinner (if you're having one).

Marg, good luck on your move over... You must be excited

Emilia, your cupcake's so pretty. I have to try make some one day (as soon as i find my silicon cupcake cases)

A family friend made cupcakes with passionfruit icing today.. it was so so so yummy

 

[peanutbutta]

Marg, Just saw your pics. They're beautiful

Really love your chinese gown. Where did you get that from? I want to have a tea ceremony in Aust too (it'll look nice and colourful in the photo album).. but I don't know where to get the chinese gown from so I'm thinking of just giving up the idea

 

[alysgal]

Hi girls,
Can I join?

Im also living in Melbourne. Marg, beautiful gown! Love the colour. Where did you get that from?

Girls, Im sorry to say but i think BOBA has closed down. Also searching for somewhere else which sells chye tao kueh now =( Laksa King on Racecourse rd is really great for singaporean/malaysian type of food, their laksa is good, and fish head noodles is YUMMY! hehehe but too bad they dont sell chye tao kueh

 

[eminozy]

i seriously think this thread is cute! heheh ..hello Alys, welcome. of course u can join. Its a public forum afterall.wheres racecourse road?

Jacq- Cathy is Claire's twin, shes an SQ steewardess now! yes.. heheheh.

Jolie- unfortunately, i dunno if they sell silicone cupcake cases in singapore, try tangs? But theres so many here in oz and cheap too nowadays. Best local brand to be is brevel.. about $15.00. Am not sure if the papercups will stick in the silicone but i assure u that if you put them in the cupcake tin, its ok.

Peanut- u are on the roll, good to know u have everything settled. How about the cake?hehehehe

i was wondering why the thread is so happening today and realised its a holiday! hehehe.. i went shopping and at forever new, theres this beautiful silver silk bare back dress with open v front selling at $29 from $150....aiyayayayay... but of course i did not buy it. where shall i wear it to?

 

[jacq23]

welcome alys! another melburnian, good stuff. u planning a SG wedding too? I can't believe that Boba has closed down??!! poor ms lala...wrong info, sorry

looks like i have to learn how to make chye tow kueh then...ok girls i will source the recipe and try out and let you know how i go.

peanut, where have u been? we missed u!

great to hear that ur mum finally booked the hotel. 3 mths of negotiating, ur mum must be good at driving a bargain! my future PIL are the opposite. they were so kan cheong in getting the hotel settled that they forgot to ask extras!

 

[jacq23]

i know emi! i'm been so 'on' in this thread cos i've had nothing to do but surf on the web for wedding ideas and so catching up with u guys before work starts tomorrow

u should have bought the dress! 29 bucks somemore. also who knows? u may need it for some occassion one night..i love bargains like that. have u been to the camberwell trash and treasure market on sundays? the best!!!

 

[alysgal]

Thanks girls.

emilia, Racecourse road is in Flemington, near the racecourse.

Jacq, yupz planning a SG wedding too in dec next yr. And its harder than i thought! wish i could actually go to see the hotels and stuff. =( My fiance and I kinda decided on grand copthorne waterfront but havent sign contract yet.

used to love to go to BOBA too! too bad its closed down. thought their biz used to be quite good.

back to work again tmr after the long weekend. *weekday bluez*

 

[jacq23]

wow dec next year, tat's heaps of time to prepare...just in case u're not already aware do keep in mind the GST rise in 2008 when considering the banquet packages. pm me if you want to chat more on msn.

 

[margiel]

Welcome Alys! I din buy the blue gown.. Got somthing else more glittering - Indian style heee... So will u also b having 2 wedding functions e.g. Oz and SG

Emi it's a good bargain!!! If you really like it lah..

Jolie thanks for arranging.. Looking forward to it! Lala where are u? you are wanted by us (Jolie and me) heeee........ Btw Jolie, u can sign up a Multiple acct, all i need to do is to add u in only

Peanut, thanks, i like the chinese gown colour too, dats y insisted my BS to let me have my outdoor PS with it instead of the fake chinese back drop. Hey maybe u can buy one set when u r back in SG then rent it out after ur wedding? heee good biz opportunities LOL

Jacq, i agreed with peanut, tea ceremony is usually private within family members and close friends. Unless if you have time, you may want to do a light snack with ur guests in church? For me i don't think it will be rude heee.. moreover for those who mind (usually the elderly relatives) will b at the tea ceremony rite?

Haha so wats next on our 'menu'? Chye Tow Kueh? Yummmmmy............ i LuV it!!!

 

[margiel]

Jolie sorry typo error above, not Mulitple but Multiply acct.

 

[alysgal]

Yeah, lotsa time so not stressing yet =P Will be going back to SG in september for a week, so will try to shortlist a couple of hotels and BS so can go down to take a look.

GST gonna rise in 2008?? =( ahh didnt know that, thankz for the info!

Marg, I'll only be doing the registration in Melb, but all the customary and wedding dinner will be in SG =)

When's everyone's wedding?? =)

 

[alysgal]

Jacq btw whats PM? abit mountain turtle =P im on MSN too, can add me =)

[email protected]

 

[pinkpony]

Hi girls! Wow!!! So much to read that I don't know where to start!

Margiel/Joliebird, would love to catch-up before Margiel goes over Melb. - I've sent you a PM, Margiel. Buzz me!

Welcome to the thread Alys. PM is Private Message. Click on the person name you want to send a PM. But I'm not sure how you want to bring yours to accept others. Ha!!

Oh sobz sobz... my chye tow kuey! Yeah I think it will be higher possibility to find it in Eastern suburb area. We will nail it down!

Jolie, there's a bakery hardware place in Hougang (near Central, but the neighbourhood area). Its own by a elderly couple. They sells everything you need for baking. I've seen the silicon muffins tray somewhere in SG. But I'm not sure if its there. Yes, Tangs has a kitchen section on a particular brand that resemble those colourful ones selling in 'HOUSE' in Aust.

Peanut, sounds like a great deal on your package! I probably need to look around too!!

Are all of you having your SG dinner/reception/lunch in a hotel? Anyone having theirs not in a hotel? Just wanna see if there's anything to share...

Thanks all for the advise on the visa. I'm kind of lost at the moment - maybe too much to do yet don't know where to start!

 

[eminozy]

hehehe.

Miss Lala, I am having mine at Chevrons (http://www.chevrons.org.sg/) near IMM. Its an Officers Club. I like the place as it is near my mum's place, theres ample parking, free shuttle service from Jurong East Mrt and also a huge pillarless ballroom. Its similar to a country club setting and theres 6 private chalets there where I am given one of them for 2 nights during the dinner.

Oh ya, Am having my thingy on friday night. I thought it would be groovy lah... after the dinner, my close friends can hang out at my chalet and chill by the pool till the next day....

heheheh

 

[eminozy]

ok which one is chye tow kueh.. i keep on reading it as char kuew teow..heheheh i want char kuew teow!

i dont think i'll buy the dresslah girls. I already went manic at chadstone and then southland for the past week! hehehehahha But this info is good for those looking for bridesmaid dresses in Oz. This is the best TIME to get it- stocktake sale!

Alys, so its near Marybyrnong huh? OK.... must go look for it then.

 

[margiel]

Emi, Chye Tow Kueh is Fried Carrot Cake, those type u see in hawker centers, either black (with dark soy sauce) or white, both with lots of eggs fried together.
Alys Im also doing my registration in Melb + a wedding lunch recep on July 14. Will have a simple reception in SG 2008 (no date yet heehee).

 

[pinkpony]

Hey good idea Emilia. I'm working near Chevrons I'm exploring places except hotels

Outdoor was initial an option, but we'll do doing there up in the Adelaide hills!!!!!

You must be so excited Margiel. Happy for you. When are you leaving? Finished packing? What courier services you using?

Looking forward for your feedback on Racecourse's Fried carrot cake!

 

[eminozy]

aaaaahhh ..yum yum. i want carrot cake too! heheheh

Yeah, Ms Lala, i looked into so many different venues, coz i wasnt interested in hotels too. I was looking at Raffles Marina, SAF yatch club, ACM, Legends on Fort Canning, Reflection Hills, Changi Resort or something of that sort, Jurong Country Club, Bukit Batok Hillsview and Malay Heritage centre.

heheheh

Yeah i wanted outdoor then realised December is dangerous for outdoor! kekke. and my option got smaller as i was apparently 'LATE' in bookings. 1 year before is apparently late, but i think its all about how apt and adamant you are in what you want. I managed to get everything done within 5 days. I think its good!

heheheh and this SGB forum actually helped a lot in choosing my venue. I was so bloody lost, its funny, coz being a malay and going against traditional style is so controversial... to the family and friends..and getting married to an Angmoh makes it even crazier. I didnt have friends whom i can ask for estimations or referral. They all went blank and all my non malay friends are either overseas or not thinking of marriage yet, so they all blur sotong! You can say being a non typical malay from birth is not easy! heheh minority within the minority! heheheheheh

ps:should we all go to laksa king and have carrot cake?

 

[pinkpony]

Emilia, well done! Good on you for being the minority within the minority! That makes you special and unique

Fort Canning, Mt Faber, Raffles Marina, Punggol Seaside are all in my considerations list. Still clueless now.... you know sometimes these places are not really that location/transport friendly, unlike the Hotels.

Yes, count me in for laska and carrot cake - provided all of you can wait for me to get my butt to the down-under end of the year!

 

[eminozy]

ya parking is the main thing for me, these everyone have come upon an age they all have cars. so yeah.... also you have to think about the old relatives, they dont want to climb too many steps, dont want to go up the hill, dont want to sit where its cold, dont want to get wet if it rains!... aiyah so many issues!

Another place i may suggest is the PS I LOVE YOU cafe...near botanical gardens.

when exactly will u be here Lala?

 

[jacq23]

alys, i have added u to msn, i couldnt pm you bcos i think it was setup to not accept personal msgs by default hence i asked you instead. my wedding is on 19 July 08 so still got heaps of time but just finding it hard having to plan from o'seas...

emi, laksa king sounds good

shall we wait till marg gets here? correct me if i'm wrong but i think the melb kakis at the moment are u, marg (coming soon), alys and myself? pls let me know if i have missed anyone out

we will have to take a rain check with ms lala till she gets here at the end of the year. hehe..

 

[pinkpony]

Hihi. Emilia, tentatively plan to arrive Melb. in Dec - hot summer! Do you have any suggestion holding outdoor ceremony in Adelaide too? Defintely the hills.

Yes please Jacq. you girls can do a 'screening' for me. Then shortlist the best when I get there! So since yours in July, have you got venue in SG booked?

 

[eminozy]

Ms Lala... You can try Crafers, Stirling, The botanical gardens at Mount Lofty...BEAUTIFUL! The beaches are good....

Yeah... Melburnian brides.. can we all meet and makan lest say in early July?

 

[jacq23]

Yes early July sounds good

Hot spicy food for this winter!

Ms lala, yeah i booked the venue a couple of weeks ago and so now just trying to sort the lil bits. I must admit i was pretty stressed when we had yet to secure the venue cos while on other threads, realised that ppl were booking the venues 18 months prior to the AD!! But dont worry too much about it, bcos SG and Aust may be different when it comes to weddings

 

[pinkpony]

Goodness!! I haven't even book a single thing!

You making me gan jiong!!!!!!! And I cannot work under pressure!!

I'll have my SG reception with close friends and family. Idealy the Oz ceremony and reception will be say a week before the SG one. The only thing I know is next year - not even dates! Yeah. That's how my HTB and I communicate - all imaginary!

Where's your venue?

 

[peanutbutta]

Boo hooo i feel so left out

hehe Everyone's meeting up in Melbourne.

How did you girls manage to find singapore food in Melb? Since i left perth i haven't been able to find any singaporean food at all. In sydney it was all korean... and now in Brisbane it's all taiwanese.I miss laksa and chicken rice! The last time we went back to Perth (nearly a year ago), FH and I bought 6 boxes of chicken rice and hokkien noodles from a shop in Broadway.. and lugged it all the way back to sydney hehehe. We contemplated sharing them with family.. but then decided to keep it all for ourselves hehe. Had good dinners for a week

 

[alysgal]

ello

oOOoo I must have confused everyone. Laksa King doesnt have chye tao kueh, but has very yummy singaporean/malaysian style foods... July sounds like a good time to go if everyone still wants to go there =)

emi, yup its near maribyrnong, just the next suburb beside it. Tram 57 goes there

Jacq, dont see you on my msn leh. Where have you booked for your wedding dinner?

Peanutbutta, are you in Brisbane now? Oh but sydney there's a really good place for msian food! THink its called Seri Nonya, our friends brought us there before. Really good but REALLY REALLY far from the city.

 

[eminozy]

peanut! melbourne is like KL/SINGAOPORE/TOKYO/JAKARTA/B'KOK/SEOUL/VIETNAM whatever lah... its just nuts. full of everything. I always say if you complain theres no asian food here from whichever culture you come from, I'll smack your ass so hard, you wont know you have one! hehehehahhahaheheh
Get yourself down herelah for a short trip! heheheheh

I love vietnamese too especially in winter...... yummy yummmy..... hehehehe. so july, girls? 1st,2nd,3rd of july?

Lala, dont worry, you will be ok!

Alys, JacQ- where do you live?

 

[margiel]

hey gals, cant leave me out! 1st 2nd 3rd July? Aiyoh im only 1/2 way thru on the plane on 4th July leh.. Can wait for me plsssss?

Lala im leaving on the 4th July, have not even started packing my lugguage yet and needless to mention my stuffs to courier over LOL Also havent source for courier co, any recomendation?

I have been busy sourcing for my dress, tailor for alteration and other nick nack things lately.... soooooo tired!! Need to source for nice paper to make my 'guest book' now..
NOW CAN REALLY feel it PrEesSure or watever it is called - like a kanchong spider!!!!

 

[alysgal]

marg, dont worry we wont leave you out. How about lets say 6/7/8 July (Fri/Sat/Sun)? Dont stress, good luck with packing!

emi, I live in Kensington. You?

 

[eminozy]

heheheahahaheehee. kancheong spider it is! i also kancheong. I hear food, i go nutz. Tonight i smelled bulgogi on my friend's partner. Alamak... beh tahan... can die one. He said he will bring me eat bulgogi on sunday to stop my cravings! heheheheh

I live in Hughesdale.

Ok , now i have to find where is Kensington on Melway.

Margie...apologies, heheh i didnt realised you are only coming then. If Laksa King do not have carrot cake, do you guys want to go somewhere else? heheheh.

MAKAN..............MAKAN.............MAKAN.........aiyayayayay

 

[margiel]

Hahaha thanks Alys and Emi... this site is my relaz corner. Ok Makan is ON!! Hey add me to MSN so can connect you gals for further details & contact number when there (or even here also lah haha)
[email protected]
Any food is fine but Im not the chillie person hehe.. mild spicy is ok lah

 

[eminozy]

added on msn margiel! does everyone here like vietnamese?

My god! this morning i was like praying continously through my teeth coz it was 3 degrees. I was freakin out how cold it is and the thought of getting out of bed was the last thing i wanted.

Walked out of the house 20 minutes later and the bloody grass have FROST!!! what the.....? When i reached the office, first thing i did was boiled water for my Korean corn tea. 3 degrees is unacceptable. I m freezing me ass off here.

Peanutbutta, you're lucky in Brissy, not suffering in 3 degrees weather- I cant feel my nose!! hehehe

 

[pinkpony]

Emilia! I love Vietnamese food too. One in Glenroy - off Pascoe Vale Rd. Opp. the Post office. There's Coles and Vietnamese groceries shop besides it too. Try the Grill-Chicken Rice! My favourite! The soupy ones are fantastic too.

Margiel, heard from my HTB that courier services like DHL, if you send stuffs to a work address is cheaper? Don't know? Not sure if I read from another thread, Singpost seems to have quite good deal?

I'm very afraid of cold. Die le!

 

[jacq23]

Yes it was not a very pleasant this morning when i went to turn on the heater at home and realised that the room temp was 4 degress!!! anyway you can't be worse off than me as my job involves walking up and down collins st visiting clients 50% of the day rain or shine!

i live in doncaster east so not very far away from your guys (i think)

it's a date in july then...can't wait hehe...sorry Peanut, maybe like wat emi said, the next interstate trip u plan should perhaps be melb.

alys i also don't think i can see you on msn. i will try to add you again. i booked swissotel the stamford (former Westin Plaza) blindly based on our families checking the place out.

 

[peanutbutta]

You girls are officially not allowed to talk about singaporean food here hehehe. Makes me crave it and it's killing me coz i don't know where to get some! hehehe Maybe i'll have to make a trip to melb hey

Can't believe it was 3 degrees in melb this morning! It was about 22 degrees here today. When I left home this morning, i got away with wearing a t-shirt, cardi and woollen jacket.. and by the time i left work, it had warmed up so much that i had to take my jacket off! Having said that, i can't believe how warm brisbane is! We had 30 degrees temperature all the way till the end of may... and it's only just started to go into the low/mid twenties in the last couple of weeks. Global warming.

Alys, yup i'm in brisbane now. Hmm.. wish i knew about Seri Nonya while i was in Sydney. Spent 3 years there without any singaporean food

Anyway, can't believe u guys are planning where to eat in July! We're only in the mid of june hehehe

 

[alysgal]

Marg, I added you to my msn too =)

Girls, vietnamese food sounds good~~ ! Freezing cold in Melbourne this morning!! Peanut Im so jealous of nice weather in brissy!! Me very scared cold also =( Do come visit us sometime!! We'll bring u to eat yummmmy yummmmmmmy food! hehehe

 

[eminozy]

yalah peanut, you jealous about our food, we jealous about your weather, you know! hehehehe, i cant believe you can still narrate about your cardi....

heheheh* envy envy* heheheheh

I am sure theres singaporean food there, coz about 3 years ago when i was in adelaide and stuck to only 4 different malaysian/spore cuisine, a lot of my friends bragged about this Mee Rebus Stall in Brisbane. This makcik cooked a storm at one of the foodcourt in the city. I have no idea where.

Maybe you should look into Brissy's Uni websites, the Singapore/Malaysia student union might have a pdf compilation of where to makan!

Theres always some student union doing those things for freshmens all across the world!

TIP: if you are travelling and desire specific food, always go to Uni websites! NO kidding, did mine for NY! hehe and found great places to eat! cheap as well!