A matter of heart, a question of time

confused09

New Member
I don’t know where to put the pain or where I could go for comfort.

The hope, the fervour and the passion that once burned… the blind innocence that was once untainted, the sheer belief that everything was real, that we had love and only each other, that he and I were alone against the others, had disappeared.

As I uttered what he willed me to say, a part of me died.

He could keep the memories they once shared. For throwing them away would break his heart. And perhaps, the day would come when his memories with me, would be enough to fill out what he once had with her. How I would muster the strength to build new ones, inspite of the place she has in his heart, I didn’t know. I was afraid of knowing she means a lot more to him than I. I, the person whom, in his words, had better take a look at herself in the mirror, the girl whom, to date has done nothing for him. The girl who doesn’t meet his criteria to be a girlfriend.

I looked at myself in the mirror and recalled the last time we spent time together. I didn’t feel human. I felt like an object. I suppose those were the memories he would remember most fondly of me. The good lay.

Then I recalled the previous relationship I had, and how it had developed and what we became to each other. The loveless, meaningless affair fueled by pleasures of the flesh… and buried my head into the pillow.

I didn’t know where I could take the hurt. I didn’t know who to turn to. Or how to make it go away. All I knew was, I could not go to him. For it would mean further unhappiness, shouting, verbal abuse and resentment. Who am I to take her place in his heart.

I don’t know where to put the pain.
 


confused 09: I am kinda of confused by your thread. He had another person with him now or this is what is happening all along?
 
oh, I tot I'm the only one who don't understand. TS, maybe u're very emo now? Try to word ur feelings and events simpler, so that we may offer some pointers? Don't be too upset, live still goes on
happy.gif
 
remember this basic rule, which my sec school teacher told us...

"guys give love for sex, girls give sex for love..."

find a guy willing to give love & u'll be ok... those who date u and u guys get physical too soon, u gotta accept tat the emotional part of u wasn't what they wanted, but just the physical part...

your post abit abstract, so if i'm wrong just ignore... cheers!
 
I believe my current boyfriend still harbours strong feelings for his ex girlfriend. And I have a lesser place in his heart compared to her. And I cannot stand playing second fiddle to her.

I feel this way because he kicked up a big fuss, called me names and berated me when I asked him to throw everything away.

I know that everyone comes with a past, and the life they had is long gone, but I cannot help but feel undermined by his previous relationship. Especially since the things she bought him are still lying around.

When we were friends, he carried a picture of her in his wallet.

When we got together as a couple, he was still carrying the letter he wrote her.

1 month after we got together, he told me he'd never experience the bliss he felt when he was with her. Not with me.

Recently, when he found out she's getting married, he told me he's upset over it.

The artwork she made him, is still hanging in his room. He goes to sleep in the blanket she bought him every night until now.

So I cannot help but feel that he hasn't moved on from her. I feel very undermined, a month ago, he told me I don't 'meet his criteria' to be a girlfriend.

To which I wonder why he's with me if I don't even meet his basic criteria. Why he's 'evaluating' me, a human being, I have no idea.

When I asked him to throw away the things she gave him, he issued me a warning. First saying he will be heart broken if I made him do it. Then he got angry and said I better be worth it. I don't know what to think of it, or what to say of it anymore.

Not that I have double standards, but the difference between him and I is, I don't hate my exes. And I welcome the possiblity of a friendship because we parted on amicable terms. If I knew anyone of them is getting married, I genuinely feel happy for them. As for him, he still hates her. That causes me to believe he is not over his ex girlfriend. Anyone of you out there with the same experience?

Now I don't pride myself as being a magnanimous person. Because I cannot help but feel that he's still in love with his ex girlfriend while he's with me. Is it emotional betrayal?

To top it off, he thinks my biggest quality is my physical appearance. I cannot help but believe this is the only reason why he is with me. Though he treats me fairly well, I cannot help but feel that he is staying with me for the wrong reasons.

Deep down inside, I'm aware that she treated him a lot better than I do. I am also aware that to him, she is a much better girlfriend than I am. I cannot help but feel hurt because of this.
 
I've always thought that in our relationship, there's only him and I.

Now, I'm starting to think that in this relationship, there's him and his ex, and then me.

That I am simply a continuation, a tool for the failed future he thought he could have with his ex girlfriend.

What should I do? Am I wrong in feeling the way I feel?
 
right person, wrong timing?

the questions u have cannot be answered becos the answers u get are valid Now, may not be valid later... u know what i mean?

if he can be stuck to the ex-gfren this way, u know well that u're a rebound... or a replacement... unfortunately u cannot replace her, so what's next for u...

the steps u take should not have to depend on his stance... it is entirely on u.

removing photos and remnants of her cannot remove his thoughts of her... it will Not solve your problem at all.
 
He said that all I am having are illusions. And he denies the fact she still has a place in his heart. Even his sister told him it is normal for me, 'this kind of person' to feel this way. Meaning I am not normal to feel this way. Because his sister, herself as a woman, didn't mind her boyfriend keeping photographs of his exes. On top of that, he said the people close to him is not supportive of this relationship. I did exactly the same thing and my sister told me to dump him because he's still living in his past. So what gives? How juvenile can this get?

I resent the catch 22 I'm caught in. He claims that if his keeping those items makes me uncomfortable, he will throw them away. I replied saying it does. Thereby giving him a solution. But that's not where the story ends.

He did it in a spiteful manner, kept warning me 'it better be worth it' etc etc. Raised his voice at me and called me names, saying I don't understand him at all.

Now, my exes remain in my life, I still keep items they've given me. But certainly not to the extend of what he's doing.

I'm caught in a very bad situation and relationship with this guy. Mostly because I think he has an inflated sense of ego, saying that I should be 'grateful' that he is throwing away all these things for me, inspite of the type of girlfriend I have been to him.

Since he is not happy with me? Since he is so fvcking wonderful, why don't he get out there and find someone as fvcking wonderful as he is? When he contemplated breaking up and I asked him what he would miss most about this relationship, he replied saying he'll never find a pretty girlfriend again. Oh My God.

I'm the one here who has to speak slowly and speak in mandarin just so he can bloody catch up and not stammer his arse about every conversation. He still has the nerve to say he's done a lot more for me than I have for him. He still has the gall to think he is so much better than I am. That he is more of a saint, and I, the lesser being in need of help - quit smoking, have some aim in life etc etc etc. I don't even think about these things, neither do I measure who has given more or done less. Because relationships can't be measured this way. I don't want one that's measured this way. I may not be perfect, I may not come from a rich family, I may not be as educated as he is, but at least I have higher earning capacity despite being younger and less educated, I'm not as screwed up as he and his sister think I am. Or believes me to be. I suffer from God complex the way he does.

Many times I curb my temper when speaking with him. If I let it all out the way he does, very violent arguments ensue between us. So I make it a point not to hurl vulgarities even when he does. I don't respond by calling him names when he called me a dumb ass. He can somemore scold me for not wanting to know why I am being called one. I was like, WTF! When I'm calm and logical, trying to speak his language, he called me a hypocrite and asked what I'm trying to prove by being civil and collected. When I rave, he calls me crazy and overly emotional.

He insists that he treats me a lot better than he treated his ex girlfriend. That despite what his loved ones feel about me, he accepts the way I am because he loves me and wants to be with me. Is that hogwash and a whole lotta crap? Who's the guy here who threatens to dump me the moment I pick up a cigarette?

He believes that I am a problematic and emotional person, I do know I carry a certain amount of emotional baggage, with my fair share of problems in life. For the most part however, I believe our frequent arguments and conflict are also caused by mild autism on his end. He's never been tested for it, though mutual friends have commented that he's slightly different. A friend of ours, who has an autistic brother, said that he definitely shows signs of being one.

I just think it's ridiculous I'm being chided for feeling the way I feel when he could be the one with problems too.

I am confused. About what exactly am I doing in this relationship. I am confused. Am I really the bad person in need of a new perspective, or is he the one who needs to get a life and start being more sensitive to the people around him?

Am I unreasonable here?

Is it wrong of me to feel the way I feel?
 
I don't think he's being fair at all for feeling this way. I cannot help but feel I'm being accused of many things simply due to his lack of understanding. To add to the list of things he's said, 'take a good look at yourself in the mirror and think about the kind of person you are'.

I don't know how I swallowed that one. If I'm so damn lousy, why the hell are you with me to start with?

What are the remote possibilities he's with me because he loves me? Is he with me because of the sex? I don't wish to reduce myself to shabby definitions, but I honestly cannot help from wondering.

Sorry for being longwinded, or even irreverent in some of my posts. I just need an avenue to let this out and neutral point of views from third parties here. Ironic as it may seem, since you guys don't get to hear his side of the story.
 
To me, the litmus test of any relationship - regardless of its simplicity or its complexity is simply: Are you happy in this relationship?

If you are not happy, no amount of analysis of who is right or wrong or whatever is going to help.
 
it's denial isn't it? i seriously dun think it's so confusing and hard to realise the fact here... so the only thing that would make u actually thing this "thing" is worth holding on to... is a lie that u have kept yourself in.
 
You are just a rebound and filling up the void in his life that the gf left behind. You have to be honest to yourself in regards to your future with him.
 
People who keep talking about their ex-es, whether positively or negatively, are likely not to have gotten over the person or the experience. Doesn't mean that you hate your ex and speak ill of him/her you are through with him/her.
 
On the part about throwing the presents away, I would think logically that if the item is serving it's purpose/function well that it is intended to be, it's a waste lah. I would feel uncomfortable in that manner due to wastage.

But the emotional attachements that he has with the gifts and the comparisons he made reflecting his feelings strongly which is a very clear sign.
 
Confuse: are you happy? It is your life and you should have control over it. Is this the life that you want to lead? You surely have the answers in your mind but is it the same that goes for your heart?
 
I'm not a happy person.

Not before I knew him. Not after. Or maybe I was, briefly, somewhere during the period of time when we were friends. And afterwards when we got together, life was good, sugar and sweets. It was the way it was when we all were kids, cute and happy.

Or maybe the novelty of all things new.

For the most part, he holds those memories very close to his heart. It was their first relationship and it lasted 9 years. I admire the life and love they had, without envy, because it was elusive, expensive, honest and well lived. Even more looking at it as a third party, all the more I believe I could see clearly, it was very much cherished. I've never had the luxury of such closeness and simplicity.

To cut the long story short, he passed all the items to me and told me to throw them away. I think he couldn't bear to do it. When he was about to leave I thought he almost cried. But he said he wasn't sad about parting with those things for he doesn't care, he just wondered why having done all that I asked, I didn't seem happy. I believe he was heartbroken, just didn't want to cause me any upset.

He said it didn't matter as long as it makes me feel secure and happy. When he said "You'd better be worth it." he meant if after forsaking his memories with her and throwing everything away, and eventually I still leave him, he will 'curse and swear' and 'hate me forever'.

Like I said, I don't know what it's like to be him, I won't understand what he's like or what they've had. Me, before I'm swept off my feet by a new romance, I usually would've found myself long gone from the old. He explained saying he's just the type to cherish things, and the longer he keeps them the more attached he gets. There's some truth to it, it gravitates to his personality and daily habits. He's not the wasteful kind, preferring things he's used to. Rides an old bike, thrifty, persists in his endeavours, reads old comics, rarely buys new clothes despite coming from a good family.

I guess it's karma or his very own way of punishing me? Because he gave me the blanket she bought him, he'd been sleeping without covers and now he's fallen sick with fever, sore throat. He's worried about getting H1N1, so he won't be going out with me. I have no idea whether he's over reacting (he does fall sick quite easily, got hand foot mouth disease twice) or whether he's making excuses, or I'm digging too deeply into this mis timing. So I suppose I'll simply blame it on timing. It's always easier when it's not on either one of us, him nor me.

How did everything get so complicated? If I were him, I'd use another blanket the next day. Wouldn't have fallen ill to start with. But nevermind now, we were supposed to get him a new one tomorrow, meet up before I get posted overseas in a few days, I'm not sure what's happening, how did everything go so wrong?

jaycomposer, in honesty, when I look at myself in the mirror, I don't like what I see. I'm really not much of a girlfriend, or much of a person to start with. I would've told you the same thing, even if I've never met him.

Despite him being a loser (aren't we all?), he's stuck with me through some difficult times, waited for hours without complaining, spent his last penny bringing me to the doctor at 3am, done what he could to make sure my needs were met, supported me when I was near bankruptcy. True we got together when life was nicer and rosier, when life got harder and so did the fights, but he's never left me.

Part of me is grateful for his being in my life, I wouldn't have known how to make it through the tough times if it were not for him, a loyal friend and good lover to me. Another part of me wondered if I would've even fallen so hard had we not come together, maybe I would've soared higher if this never started. Me being emotional, moody and illogical, I failed to handle this romance well. I have a lot to learn about balancing work, love and friends. Or maybe like he said, my expectations are just way too high. And in turn, I don't have much to give. All in all, life was okay before him, albeit a tad empty, sometimes lonely. But at least, I wasn't aching. Do people only ache when they love? What then do they do? Don't love therefore they don't ache? But what then is the meaning of it all? I apologise if I cheapen the four letter word, as you can see from my thread, questions and doubts, I'm the last person I can think of, with the ability to apply proper meaning to the word 'love'.

Jay, he dumped me once. He didn't beg. I did. If I dumped him, he wouldn't have begged. He didn't even beg his ex when she left him. Simply told her he'll "still accept her and take her back if she changes her mind". Of course, I reminded him it's not in his place to accept her because really, dude, she left him. You get the drift on what he's like. In this dictionary, no words come close to being down on his knees.

I don't have it figured out. Say smoking, I do it behind his back despite him saying he'll dump me if I do. I think though, I'm allowed to do it as long as it's not blatantly or defiantly right in front of his face. What gives?

powder, I apologise if it's painfully obvious that I'm running in circles. But what exactly is happening? Am I letting a good person go? Should I stop and look at this objectively? Is he seriously wrong for me and I for him?

Take for instance, he wants to treat me to club med for my upcoming birthday. I said okay let's go. He's disappointed that I'm not as thrilled as he is. When I tell him there's nothing exciting about going to freaking club med because it's really just food, wine and relaxing, you eat and you piss and shit, he's disappointed. On one hand, I felt sorry I didn't react the way he'd expected, if I knew I would've pretended to jump for joy. When he asked me what I prefer, I said I'd rather go somewhere nice like burma, which he'd dread and probably fall sick there due to bad weather and poor conditions.

We can't seem to gel in many ways but I love him very deeply. How can it go so wrong to be fond of something or someone honestly? Why can't the both of us just ever be happy and smooth sailing. I know that life is never a bed of roses, or maybe I need to grow up, get some perspective because I may not be ready for a serious relationship... or maybe he's just an egoistical cad who's taking me for a rebound... which is which? What is what? When it comes to the heart, surely there must be more to it than simply being 'happy'...

I hate being separated from him and I dread my work. But will go anyway, it feels like the old life is coming back, maybe this is just the way it is, full circle, all for nothing. Just wasted, childish notions.
 
confused09,

have been wondering what could be the reasons which may present a deep-seated need for u to stay in the 'relationship', and i'm pretty much blank other than a chance meeting where for some reason, everything made the match... but beyond that moment - logic came back and made u question Why.

there's no One single rule, my yardstick is a rather simple one where i simply ask myself if i'm happy, and if i am happier with my partner, or sadder with her. everyday and everytime i ask myself honestly, i think hapiness with my wife is doubled. of cos there's time i wish i was a bachelor for a weekend or day for me to just laze and do something absolutely bachelorish... but each time i realise i would not trade anything for my family.

whether or not this feeling exist within u now, whether it'll exist in future, whether u'd feel absolutely wonderful when looking at your husband, the father to your kid... it's entirely deep within u. u know best... and If u have the answers on his role as your husband, the father of your childrean, the fren and companion to u...

being girlfren is not surreal enough, the surreal part comes when u wake up next to him and realise that he is your legal-husband for now and the coming future...
 
jay,

'heartless' is subjective... i'm not really keen to go thru this whole affair with u, but all i wanna tell u is that OPRAH may be a big hit and very popular, but not everyone subscribes to the Oprah way and actually improve their life before it ends via Oprah.

Philosophy has little influence when spoken by an unhappy person to unhappy pple seeking happiness...
 
One should hold on for the future and not the past.

e.g. for the good of the someone we care about or our own happiness.

If it comes to a point, its dragging the inevitable unhappiness, then it is a lost cause.
If they cannot be happy, any talk or philosophy is also useless.

All these discussions are intended to make the TS think for themselves. There are no answers from any of the posters. We should be honest with ourselves. No one else have the perfectly same needs as us. Questioning the very reasons for holding on doesn't mean encouraging one to be heartless. We should be holding on for the reasons that truly matters to us. That's where all the self reflecting thoughts are intended to guide the person.
 
jay,

u're looking at me with coloured glasses... tat's why i appear in the colour which u have depicted.

your sense of being selfless might be staying in a relationship that sucks most times, mine isn't. anyway thing is - your question abt my wife - does not apply to me At All. becos i Never adopted a stance where wife Needs to make or Keep me happy. that responsiblity has been taken upon myself.

happiness comes from our attitude and outlook. Given the same scenario - u could be unhappy, whilst i could be very happy...

yes, happiness is a state of mind, but what contributes to this state - Are the physical relationship that u are actually in. unfortunately for u, TS and a host of other pple starting threads in this forum - the relationships u hold Does Not present u with a state of mind where happiness has a strong likelihood of being present, nor permanent. That's why u often find yourselves Looking Back, Digging to the Past in order to find that ounces of happiness. they are BUT remnants.

the reason why u're Not in tat state of mind is becos the guys u have chosen, has made it a constant battle for u to cope and adjust yourself to be happy. Where the only person who is constantly trying to change - are Yourselves. And in doing so, years down the road, u will look in the mirror and no longer recognise the person u see. there's not much happiness in that, and there's certainly no happineess thinking u're sacrificial and doing all that for Love.

u seem to think i only care for myself... tat's fine, i'm comfortable with that. i dun do Oprah as a general... i notice that pple who watch Oprah will get hooked on Oprah, and it becomes an addiction to shortterm happiness. the longterm remains pretty much unchanged. i advocate long-term changes, not short-term relief...
 
jay,

just to add on, i understand the need to have pride and ego and i have it too, but the thing is - my pride is built on pretty sound foundation, decent results and happiness in my life... Existing happiness that is genuine and unforced, un-coerced, and doesn't need much reflection to achieve. i cherish my wife not for the past, but the present, i appreciate her for the past AND the present, and i definitely wanna carry on walking with her present and future.

what is your pride built on except to call it an entitlement becos u're human? If u can say what i say with conviction and without having to psycho yourself into doing it, then i can accept your stance, else it's hard for me to be convinced by someone who needs to psycho herself into shortterm happiness, and requiring to dismiss pple like myself Becos i'm like the Bitter Pill of Waking Up.

many gals here are in denial, dun know what they want, can't decipher what isit they want, and yet they fight for the causes which they themselves have lost track of. if we break it down, your need to disagree with me is becos Should u agree, then everything u're trying so hard to hold onto - becomes a big lie, and u can't face that truth.

so pls dun dump your emotional baggage on pple like myself. u would have spoken my lines had u been emotionally fulfilled n balanced.

i may be harsh in words, but i dun take up your life and waste your youth away on false hopes and hugs for shortterm relief. Life may be a gamble, but the winners are those who know how to cut losses, rather than keep telling themselves that they will win in the next hand... u will run out of chips, u will run out of time, and u'll certainly not live forever to enjoy the winnings when u eventually get the lucky role of the dice... the clock continues to tick whether u like it or not and it's cruel becos it doesn't stop for u.
 
Many people think that the more suffering there is in a relationship, the deeper the love. That's only half truth. Being in a relationship isn't about going through thick and thin only. It's also about being able to enjoy life together. Think again if today you are in a relationship that is about suffering together only.
 
jay,

your thoughts are nice to know, and it's certainly pleasing, and i dun mean this in a sarcastic manner. for me the very Real thing here which i keep in mind is - Time, Youth, Life. it is ticking away...

i believe in encouraging my frens, kids to make the best of their life... for kids i am certainloy not gonna place any boundaries for them. But when it comes to adults, making the best of their life does not mean constantly chasing something even if they're bad at it. Certainly it's great to say "nothing and no one should stop a person from pursuing something they want badly", but this is only ideal IF what they want is something which is worth every ounce of effort and Can be improved with Time.

if u do a 'paula abdul', u're potentially wasting pple's time and encouraging them on something that just won't happen. Where Oprah coms in is becos many pple watch Oprah to take away their distractions from their Real problems - by focusing on other pple's problems... this becoms a daily addiction cum distraction from our Real life issues.

"TS admitted that she was never happy before or after she met him, so why do you assume he is the cause of her not being able to be happy?"
- just becos u weren't happy, u're not happy now, does not mean that your current state has no causes. i would think that being in a relationship is a happy thing where u should gain some form of happiness... if u gain nothing when u're single, nothing when u're in a relationship, then what exactly are u working on? and why should this one be the one to work on?

so what's your take? stay in the relationship, whilst u soften things all the way? can u keep up with the TS and stay beside her all her life and be there? Is paula abdul gonna be coaching all the bad idol wannabes for the rest of her life? if they have no hope in that career, someone should say it... and not be all huggy n encouraging and keeping their hopeless dreams alive just to be nice.
 
ok, had to stop short to head for lunch...

when we are Nice in a forum when it comes to advice and thoughts, have u ever wondered if u are being nice becos u're simply a nice person? or a diplomatic person? are u being nice becos u want pple to like u? are u being nice becos u can't take harsher tones well?

whichever u choose... none of them lends credence nor weight to a viable solution. the fact is that the problem would still require solving, or at least some form of closure... sure a listening ear is wonderful - and that's precisely the role that most other pple will perform. BUT some of them keeps the person feeling temporarily ok, but honestly - are they saying things becos they wanna be accepted and liked.

when u give advice, do u give it and STILL hoped to be liked, popular and accepted? if u do, then u're not going All Out for the TS, are u? u're blinded by your own little need to be accepted. this has become common in most forums where pple become cyber frens and are afraid to step on each other's toes...

i'm not afraid of stepping on pple's toes, my bigger more urgent fear is seeing our generation wasting our life and youth away - going round in circles in a relationship that obviously doesn't represent anything close to what a relationship should be.

u just need to agree with me that Happiness & Fulfillment is important in a relationship. And if u do, dun advocate pple to stay and keep working on relationships that dun work... simply to fulfill some sort of romantic notion that love conquers all blah blah... some do, some obviously dun. when it doesn't, u will just find that u run out of time, u're grey and old and your husband finally leaves u after the same issues have finally boiled over after years of trying... and he found a younger girl in his office whom he click with very well and who understands him totally...
 
I think your bf simply dont understand women or he is not ready for another r/s.

Ask yourself is he the one? If you still love him, be big hearted and accept who he is, dont think of that issue.

I also having such problem but on different issue, I try not to think about it and this make be happier. I know he love me just that I'm very frustrated/sad/unhappy of that issue.

Love is blinded. Once you wake up then you will know.
 
jay,

"Did I not say that it sounds like TS can do better than her current bf?"
- if u think so, then SAY SO. why say something else when u feel something else? why decide that the TS just wants to vent and sell her something which u dun subscribe to?

i dun know abt u, but u're just telling me that u're telling her what u decided she wants to hear... How much weight does that give any purpose for which u post in this forum? isn't that simply patronizing? If u wanna patronize, pls dun make references to me being harsh... i'm not the hypocrite here.

u read Mars & Venus and decide that there's this general rule abt women? i have read it, amongst several other books... it is just One of the books, i dun make it a rulebook. it doesn't influence my every stance on every women in this forum, there's this thing known as individuality. so whilst i may be harsh in some, i do show empathy n patience in others... u're just judging me by the recent spate, and by your thread. how Mars am i and how Venus are u? it's not a general rule, although i suspect many pple quote the book simply to lend credence to their own stance, which otherwise - they would not have the confidence of delivering as their own opinion and view.

it's like pple starting their sentences with "the gov says", "my boss says", "my father says"... for me, i just say.

u want her to go for what she wants... that sound very supportive. try being encouraging to drug-abusers and gamblers... If i figure that your bfren/husband/relationship is a Drug, a Bad one... i take that stance and tell u to break-up. that's me... whether u acceptor not is of cos, entirely up to u... i dun force pple, but u seem to think i'm forceful.

u lend your ear and offer words of comfort to someone in distress...

i offer someone a longterm solution...

what's the issue here with my brand? are u gonna be here in the forum forever to walk her entire life with her? i know i'm not... so i'd rather pass on the fishing skills... u can supply all the fish u want, one day u will not be able to supply anymore.

end part 1
 
be it Venus, Jupiter or whatever u wish to use... u are leaving, and u will leave this forum.

if u enjoy exchanging opinions, then why be drained? u dun have to defend yourself if it's an exchange... u dun have to argue if u know i'm not demanding u to subscribe to my views... and it's not becos of me, it's becos u Never had the patience nor genuine empathy to stick around to see things thru... being here is incidental, and not a commitment... yet u want others to commit to lotsa empathy and soft-tones...

i've foreseen this way before u even know it. your brand of advice is just repeating the hugs... u walk around threads and hug, hug, hug... being polite and all that. and u say it's becos u're Venus, they're Venus and this is what's needed?

if u wanna walk out, just walk out... dun tell me that it's becos of me or whoever. u Never had the stamina to stay... your ego is bruised - accept that u bit off more than u can chew.

life is such, sometimes u get caught, some times u dun. u should have just offered your advice without making snide references to harsher pple. Not least u're ready to take on the continuity required to see your views thru...

at the end of the day, remember that u started it... and u are bailing out... so pls dun tell me u're leaving me to do this or that... tat's condescending coming from a defeatist, isn't it? i would have been here whether or not u had approved... and even at your leaving, i am extending to u a very important lesson. abeit being harsh...

i wish u good judgment and wisdom.
 
When u do hit rock bottom where matters of the heart are concerned, empathy & tact ain't going to solve anything.

Venus here by the way.
 
yes.. I rather have someone "slap" me real hard then saying all good & comforting words...

Face the reality than be a tortoise in shell.. It gets you to no where...
 
Jaycomposer,

Nothing wrong in giving comfort... people do need them at certain point in their lives.

At the same time, the harsher words may be useful.

Use in combination and at the right moments, they are all useful.

There is no debate about this and I don't think it is wrong to offer sympathy or comfort. Nor is it wrong to offer harsh words of advices or wisdoms.

And nothing to do with relationship gurus. We just share what we know and experience..
 
if your friend tells u she's got a stomach ache from eating bad oysters, would u give her sympathy and comfort and tell her it's ok to continue eating "bad" oysters? Telling her to stop eating bad oysters wouldn't help? I beg to differ. It certainly helps. I won't tell her to stop eating oysters, coz oysters weren't the problem, but i'll certainly tell her to be more careful, try to differentiate between the good ones and the bad ones, before she eats them next time.

Difference lies in what your friend needs. Does she need comfort or does she need to know what caused her bad tummy? If she says "come n give me some sympathy, i need lots of hugs n sweet kisses", then that's probably what u wanna give her. If she needs advice on why n how to cope with her bad tummy, hoping that she doesn't get a bad tummy for the same reason again, she'll need to recognize that the oysters were BAD, and stop picking the bad ones next time. How else do u tell her that they were "bad" besides "they were BAD"?
 
Maybe thread starters should state more clearly what they're looking for when posting. U want advice or u want sympathy?
 
Being qualified as a psychologist doesn't make u a relationship guru either. U learn from experiences & share your lessons. Nobody's in the race to become the bestest & wisest guru here unless u are.
 
hi Vivien, u wrote : "is it lying and being a hypocrite when your friend tells you she's got a stomach ache from eating bad oysters and you give her some sympathy and comfort? It doesn't do anything to ease her pain physically, but telling her that she shouldn't eat bad oysters in future isn't going to help her either."

Something wrong with the analogy.
You are focused on easing the pain while another is more worried that she isn't letting go of her bowl of bad oysters and is intent to finish them all. The person is holding on the past... i.e. how much she has spend to get these oysters. And not the present nor future that she is in pain and it is the bad oysters that is causing it. And taking more will make it worser. Definitely, it is going to help her in future if it makes her let go of the bad oysters.

P.S It is never about winning. This is not a competition. Its an exchange. No one needs the agreement of everyone.
 
"And I wish you empathy and tact."

Its not about about empathy or tact. Rather, whether one read things personally and emotion OR objectively.

Despite many disagreements with powder, he has shown alot wisedom in his views and advises. It could be the bitter pill but its no poison.

btw, where is powderful?? He is one person you should cross words with. Then u will know what is the meaning of tactless. That chap is cruely crude but sharp though.
 


jay,

is this your bruised pride talking or are u really keen to go all the way? the Oysters analogy is kinda lame, and hardly depicts the extent of a lifetime longterm relationship.

now u playing the "qualified" cards?? how desperate are u to win an argument? Your ego is an issue here... relationship problems have been solved thru the years without Certified help (from mum, dad, siblings, frens, colleagues etc), and suddenly u're pulling this "qualified" card out to play... it smacks of desperation and it makes u look worse. u dun seem to even think enough to cover all angles before u put forth an argument, and now u're setting the dogs on me? this isn't medical advice, it isn't legal advice, it's matters of the heart. u dun need to be a cook to know good food and bad food.

in order to put forth your argument, u make an assumption tat the pple here have no qualification to counsel... Well u could be right, but u could be wrong as well. point is - u're Very willing to take the risk of this assumption to have it blown up in your face. besides, if only professionals can speak, why then do forums exists? when u started a thread here - were u thinking that u'll be getting professional help and advice? fact of the matter is that u know well that u're seeking it from fellow humans, and u DID NOT need certified counsellors... why then do u insist on that now? - if not simply to win an argument...

lastly, i won nothing. u lost nothing. u were the one trying to hold onto some 'win'. u made snide references, i merely presented u a logical reasoning on why harsh does not equate to bad.

nobody is chasing u away, i certainly am not. but if u choose to leave, that choice is Entirely Yours. u have this habit of blaming everything and everyone... when will u take up the responsibility for your own positions?

and if u're leaving then just leave.. dun leave and turn back to bark, dun blame me on your way out. dun make me a scapegoat for your mistakes.

seriously, sometimes when u know u've lost hold of something, then admit and start over. why fight a losing battle the way u seem to encourage holding on to lost causes in relationships...
 

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