What should i do now?

tomasulu,

it was not insensitive. actually she did not take any offence and i believe she understood what i was sharing...

it is actually those of u whose instinctive replies was to be against abortion, who were offended and started defending the belief that u shared - as if i was ever attacking it.

my suggestion to her has nothing to do with my beliefs nor what i would do. it has everything to do with what she should consider, and the implications of her decisions.

Realise that i'm Not advocating abortion but suggesting it in this case. i would expect u to have the ability to know exactly what i'm talking abt.
 


well tomasulu, u should also consider the brain-dead whose heart is still pumping... u might have a stand on it.
 
without emotions, we are dead. and i make no apology for being alive.

powder, you typically make sense but not when you get into some philosophical ramblings which i have to be honest with you... i don't understand a word of it. perhaps i am, as you've helpfully suggested, seriously blind.
 
correct me if i am wrong but i believe a respirator is needed in order for the brain-dead to... exist.

ok ignore me if that question was really a sarcastic barb.
 
well powder,

"i do not relate a human foetus with the human food chain, i related the human foetus with animal foetus/egg."

I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your intended meaning because this statement really reads so to me. "wonder if u guys abstain from tamago, half-boiled eggs, fish-roe, quail's eggs etc etc... Yeah, the chick has not been formed yet, nor the fish... "

Here's you are talking about abstain from all these animal eggs i.e. avoid eating. which I replied "Why should we? Are you feeling guilty for the pig or cow u r eating daily? Or the amount of 'life' our body naturally kill to remain healthy? Or are you a cannibal or something and wanting to cook some human?

This analogy is totally inappropriate. It probably has more relevance if you want to be a vegetarian...."

Its very clear that I'm disputing in relevance to relating the human fetus to animal eggs in form of food supply chain. You could have clarified this much earlier than to go on saying its a fact.
 
tomasulu, brain-dead yes, typically the body can be kept functioning... maybe i should call it Coma, since brain-dead can be determined as Death itself.
 
milo,

wat u need to do, is to get out of your argumentative state of mind, then read my posts again, particularly my 1st post and the flavour. u will notice that whilst i was suggesting, u were insisting.

actually at this point, i'm explaining my suggestion, and u're still insisting on conceiving being the only option, anything else is murder, irresponsible and blah blah... (btw tomasulu, this IS a guilt-trip... mine isn't)

it's abortion likened to eating eggs... and Not eating babies likened to eating animals...
 
"You can say anything you like.. bla bla bla.. But it does not change the fact that we have a right to choose abortion. The mother has a right. Don't put unnecessary guilty feelings on others my imposing our views. It is your view. Fullstop. "

- Oh...I thought this is a forum? You can say your view, so can I rt? I thought people will not be guilty for what they don't believe in anyway. So why keep on talking unnecessary guilt?
 
Dear All,
Thank you for the overwhelming advices. in any case i escalate this into other side topics, my apologies.
NoOne in this discussn has advocated or 'started' my thought of an abortion.
as the environment become less conducive i begin to habour tat flash thoughts. this thought gets louder as my situation, in my opinion only, deteriorates. that's why i m in a fix & i nd to listen to advices and comments from a different angle.
i luv kids. i was resentful tat i hv no kids from my last marriage. i remember feeling 'useless' and alone whn i play with my friend's daughter.
i wish my life is perfect. but as i tak a step bk and c, the pic is actually not rosy. i wish to hv a 'complete' family, with someone i luv n a doting MIL. but tats nt the case for me.
tis less ideal environment has agn put me in an 'emotional', 'defensive' and 'fighting' mode, which i had enough from my Dv experience. i m tired. but can i nt fight and tolerate forevr?
eventually the thought of 'abortion' flashes in my mind. i acknowledge it's the easiest way out.
my mum told me to com bk for confinement. she plead with me not to think so muc n she wil stay supportive throughout.
Thank you evry1. ur advices and comments have enlighten me alot n i m gaining strength. i start seeing thgs from a different perspective nw...
 
hi powder,

not very fair leh.

why do you say that I insist the keeping baby is the only option. I didn't say so. What I'm really pointing out is the responsibility involved in a pregnancy and abortion. That doesn't take away any choice.

We always have choices. But mostly comes with consequences. And pointing out the consequence isn't shutting the option. This is something we need to be very clear about.

"it's abortion likened to eating eggs... and Not eating babies likened to eating animals..."
What I really against is the entire idea of linking an abortion with eating. We eat for survival and enjoyment of food for goodness sake. This is part of the natural food supply chain. How inappropriate for you to link that with an abortion. An abortion isn't a lunch outing with your friends or colleagues man! I'm sorry but this is completely out.

The correct comparison would be to speak about eating human fetus vs animal eggs. For that, the controversy will then go into cannidalism as well.

Lastly, I admit I was in a damn foul mood yesterday partly due to the stupid SAF 100 for overseas trip but I don't agree that I was speaking in argumentative state of mind. I didn't dispute your stand on abortion. I disputed your statement to liken abortion to eating eggs.
 
at the end of the day, powder is always right.

No point arguing lah.

Can we agree to disagree and live life peacefully ?
 
milo,

without a doubt, our wavelength on this doesn't match up. u are unable to see the link i'm trying to establish, and getting stuck on 'foetus versus food' when my whole idea is on the "killing life' aspect.

u can justify eating eggs for survival (which to be honest is pretty lame given the many food groups) BUT u cannot justify abortion for survival?

most of u seem to stop at just "oh u are killing a life" and that's it. the very responsibility and credibility to your thoughts are on ONE aspect, and it ends there u know? u guys go home feeling good abt speaking against abortion and u have your dinner and hug your wife to sleep tonite.

But who bears the brunt of the advice n decision? who carries the foetus til baby til toddler til child til teenager til young adult? who cares, nurtures, provides, feeds, educates, LOVES? pls dun give the convenient 'u can put up for adoption' thing... some pple would rather advise one to give up a child. this isn't exactly a saintly advice either, but everyone seem so transfixed on giving the foetus a Life, Name, Face and Identity.
 
oh anyway, i AM in reservist now. but i've come to accept it as part of our life as sporean men... my liability is until i'm 50. and financially i'm very poorly paid in MUP.
 
kent & lois,

pls dun start. u are always so concerned abt who's right and who's wrong, who wins and who loses... does it matter?

sheew sheew! buzz buzz! go spend your 6.5k...
 
hi powder,

"u can justify eating eggs for survival (which to be honest is pretty lame given the many food groups) BUT u cannot justify abortion for survival?"

If you would to reread what I clearly wrote. The consideration for abortion should be the capability and not willingness. i.e. If its an issue of survival, CLEARLY its not willingness but the ability to support and raise the kid. I clearly addressed that if you didn't realize earlier. Its never just THAT'S IT.

And this is not the only aspect. But, its one aspect you seem to attempt to mask with the link with eating eggs. There is no issue to compare apples with apples and orange with orange. You know the main dispute here isn't about animal eggs or human fetus. But to belittle the abortion as trivial as a meal. The suggestion that if we disagree with abortion, then we been don't eat animal eggs. That's total bull.
 
"Abortion is right only for this type of parent: http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC091007-0000078/He-behaved-like-an-animal. What type of mother is this to let the inhumane bf to abuse the 3yo boy to death?? Feel so furious to read this news today! This type of people doesn't deserve any children at all.
For the "b*stard, may lighting strike him down "tian da lei pi"!"

See, a mother's or father's responsibility toward a child DOES NOT end with giving birth to him/her. Once born, there is no reversal even if you find that you cannot cope with having the child in your life. So, keeping a baby may not always be a responsible, thoughtful or selfless act.
 
yoz powder.. actually, it's not surprising that milo got ur point liao, and then back to square one...

for me, it would be really clear-cut with:
"i do not relate a human foetus with the human food chain, i related the human foetus with animal foetus/egg"

and it kinda contradicted with a latter statement:
"abortion likened to eating eggs..."

that's abt the only thing i differ.
 
vios, exactly. The action is completely different.

Act of human or any other creature eating another animal fetus/egg is not the same as human taking the life of their young, be it in fetus or fully developed form. Its significantly different.
 
powder, please stop. what has eating balut got to do with justifying abortion? you might as well try to justify murder by pointing to the fact that we are carnivores.

irony is while you accused milo of getting stuck on this point, you keep coming back to it. if you'd just admit that it was a monumentally retarded analogy, we will stop harassing you about it.
 
tomasulu, stop what?

it was as much a disappointment coming from u... i wouldn't eat a balut (given the maturity it reaches), but i would eat an egg. same reason why i wouldn't abort after a certain frame of time...

my moral-tolerance on abortion is very much dependent on the period, the circumstances, and other factors including genetic/hereditary deficiencies... i dun have a one-size-fits-all Umbrella answer to encourage or discourage.

honestly, it is tiring to be embroiled and forced to make a black or white choice. if u feel tat way abt what i'm saying, then i just have to accept that u feel this way.
 
powder, i have no problem with your position. it's a little ambivalent but i think i get it. my problem is with your attempt to associate abortion (of 1st trimester fetus) with eating eggs, fish roe, etc. it's just a ridiculously dumb analogy.
 
isn't that what I have been saying??

haha... so afterall, its not the same as eating animal eggs no? I don't see the need to consider all these "my moral-tolerance on abortion is very much dependent on the period, the circumstances, and other factors including genetic/hereditary deficiencies."

Instead, its simply, is it fresh or not, do I have the craving for it today and am I willing to pay for price of the food. Not so with an abortion. An abortion is no trivial matter... we need to consider all those stuffs u mentioned.
 
tomasulu,

i'll just repaste what i said here...

"i think some of u are giving More Life than the egg should be getting...

wonder if u guys abstain from tamago, half-boiled eggs, fish-roe, quail's eggs etc etc... Yeah, the chick has not been formed yet, nor the fish... "

if u dun get the drift, u dun get the drift.
 
its okie bro. You can have your say about the comparisons. To me its still as ridiculous. Call it stupid or shallow or whatever.

If someday, I could appreciate it, then fine. Else, its okie too. Cheers.
 
i'm not gonna call it anything, u're the one using the very judgmental/aggressive words if u dun realise it...
 
bro, come on man, I'm simply failing to understand your link. Since, its not working, after this long discussions, let's not waste time on it anymore. i respect your need to make this link and trust that you have your reason and logic for it. But, that doesn't mean I need to agree or understand it, tio bo?

And I still really think its ridiculous. Now, not you but me calling myself too stupid and shallow to understand your link. Like that also aggressive?

I have pretty much calm down from the SAF 100 and nursing a damn painful headache. I'm really having no aggression liao. And if my earlier aggression was bad, let me sincerely apologize for it.

I'm confident that there is no hard feelings at all. This isn't the 1st or last time we don't see eye to eye and we could still discuss on other stuffs. But no more on this egg link. Good evening bro.
 
no need to apologize... i should be the aggressive one... have not slept in the last 43hrs cos someone didn't do his job. hope your reservist isn't as crap
 
yup, it does... i have much grievances, just tat in the military there's little one can do. hope u meet iwht kinder folks...
 
milo, no lah... dun see the link doesn't mean stupid, shallow or anything like that...


just that u're looking at a Fact that an egg is food with this equation which we all know liao:

abortion of foetus /= consumption of eggs



but if u remove this Food Fact from the analogy:

foetus + terminating Life = egg + terminating Life



and most Importantly...

foetus + nurturing Life.
 
still on it?? Haha....

Kind of far fetch liao. Add or remove something like this, meaning would change liao what.

Why is it added in the 1st place? You draw legs on a snake, it is no longer a snake liao. Looks more like a lizard. Your primary chinese teacher never teach u this story meh?
happy.gif
 
Er.. I don't see the analogy between abortion and eating egg. The egg that we ate are UNFERTILISED egg. Meaning, the egg would not develop into a chick if we didnt eat it.

The egg that we ate should be reference to the egg that the female (human) produce monthly and 'wash' out during our menses if it did not managed to get fertilise by the sperm.

Hence, I don't see why the abortion of an early foetus should be link to eating an unfertilised egg.
 
it's irrelevant if it is an unfertilized egg, a balut, a baby chick or a fully grown chicken. we do all sorts of things to animals - eat them in all stages of their lives, harvest their organs, wear their skins, etc. - which we don't to fellow human beings. i am just dumbfounded by the obstinate idiocy that resurfaces again and again trying to make an untenable point.

just.stop.
 
We do. Eat anything & everything there is. I suppose tat takes the life bit out of the equation. They're food. Can't expect the almighty human being to equate wat they eat to the termination of life.
 
Vios has summed it up pretty well. Not tat an abortion can be trivalised into something as simple as eating an egg. But tat doesn't erase the fact tat there's life in both.

Ok, Shir, it's an unfertilised egg. Can we assume it's a balut then?
 
tomasulu,

it's the difference in how we view things isn't it? u give more regard to pregnancy the moment it occurs, i believe in having an option to abort upto a certain maturity...

it's obstinate to u becos u are not open to how i see it, u're not even leaving me a small gap. i see abortion as an option depending n how a few factors, whilst some here are totally against it and won't hear another thing more...

u should try challenging your own views in harsher cases... like a lady pregnant with the baby of a rapist; a girl impregnated by her incessuous father; a bright 16yr-old sports athlete finding herself pregnant etc...

challenge your boundaries and threshold, would the answer be "NO, u have to give birth" each time? i dun know... i dun know how to be so strict on this topic.
 
shir,

i never actually meant it as an analogy. it was something tat has been shoved in my face over and over again. the focus was on our mind's processing on certain thoughts, giving some a more favourable position than others...

yup i know, the eggs we consume are largely commercially-produced and unfertilized. there's no rooster, fertilization n inubation process.
 
what about you powder? would you be ok with late-term abortions under the circumstances of those examples you raised?

to me, the only consistent and logical view for an abortionist to take is that the mother's welfare, however you define it, takes precedence over the life of her unborn. once when you start to distinguish between a 'lump of cells' and a fully formed human being, you are faced with the dilemma of late-term abortions. an unborn in its later gestation can survive outside the womb so it's obvious that he is fully formed. i believe that's your belief as well. can you justify murder under any circumstance?
 
yoz milo,

i've got another interpretation from our beloved chinese teachers....

all along, it is a lizard liao... the legs already exist....
but the snake-lovers just couldn't notice 'em.

happy.gif
 
in my earlier post on Friday, Oct 9 (9.55am)...
<font size="+0">/=</font> denotes <font size="+0">not equal to</font>

this is a Food Fact that everyone knows, and the second Fact is that the so-called Analogy is not associated with it...
so don't get too caught up with this part.
 
powder, read between the lines... just so i am clear on this issue, the only time an abortion is called for is when the pregnancy becomes a danger to the mum. i acknowledge the difficulties that exist outside of this one scenario. and i certainly don't put myself up on some morality pedestal. but that's what you hold to if you believe in the sanctity of life and life at conception.
 


look, the danger with guys like u and milo is this...

u dun leave room for any other possibilities other than your own beliefs. the way u have been trying to outdo and out-prove me on my SUGGESTION, my suggestion of an option... has been nothing short of oppressive, insistent, and absolutely leaves no room for anything other than your beliefs. it is non-negotiable to the very end.

u telling me that i'm on a moral pedestal???

seriously dude, u should ask the pple here Who are the ones on a moral pedestal... i think u are so caught up in your anti-abortion stance tat u dun even realise yourself.

do u condemn religion-incited terrorists? i seriously see a similarity in attitude u're sharing with them. i can appreciate your wit and one-liners from time to time, but this time, i think u need to stop and reflect on what u're really doing here.

pls look at it again, am i really the one on a morality pedestal???

--------------

i have made many difficult decisions in my life to understand that it's not just for today, but for tomoro and the day after...

and i dun mean relationship decisions of "should i break up", "which guy is better".

if u've made enough difficult decisions tat can mean life and death, success n failure, and your life has Always been on the line... u realise that u never write off anyone nor anything that's possible, even if it might be against your beliefs Today.
 
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