Sunbeam, you can refer to this website. When are you going? I'm going in December 2007.
http://www.raileurope.fr/wheretobuy/where_to_buy-
country.php?country=13
http://www.raileurope.fr/wheretobuy/where_to_buy-
country.php?country=13
HI Raymond,
Which places would you recommend?
I will be spending 1 week in Switzerland in Dec.
Thinking of going to Berne, Zurich, Lucerne, Zermatta and St Moritz. Thinking of taking the Glacier Express from Zermatt to St Moritz, but not sure if its worth the 7.5 hour train ride.
Which places would you recommend?
I will be spending 1 week in Switzerland in Dec.
Thinking of going to Berne, Zurich, Lucerne, Zermatta and St Moritz. Thinking of taking the Glacier Express from Zermatt to St Moritz, but not sure if its worth the 7.5 hour train ride.
hi raymond, i agree wif u!!!!!!! its like their taste buds went mad...can u imagine, 1 day i was eating wonderful french food, next day, swiz food.... my taste buds couldn't really take it! keekee, but the ppl there are super frenly and the landscape was BEAutiful!!! it's also pretty much like singapore. 4 major "races/ethic gps" there, french, itlians, gemans and others... lots of indian, korean tourists there.. so really feels like home (except for the food and mountains).
Hi Littlemay,
I suggest eschewing the normal "see as much as I can see in as little time as possible" kisau type of mentality. It will just leave you with tourist fatigue and you won't get to really enjoy the place. Just pick two (or at the very most three) places as a base and explore the area from there.
I'm not sure if the glacier express is worth it as I have not been on it, but it sure is very expensive. You can get something similar (and cheaper) by just driving around some of the spectacular mountain passes. Nufenen pass is our favourite so far, we stopped to take so many photos. Nice valley with a rippling brook and so many wild flowers. Only thing missing was the champagne being cooled in the icy waters of the brook.
Hi Ariesta,
Yes the contrast is quite noticeable. In general German food, which forms much of the food in Switzerland, is a lot more salty than French food. Italian food tends to be a little on the salty side too.
I wouldn't really go so far as to say that it is pretty much like Singapore. As far as I know our leaders have stopped mentioning about the Swiss standard of living because we will never get there (not that I'm blaming the govt, some things are beyond our control; just that it's not so good to set an impossibly high standard to aim for). The interplay, relationships, and history between the major races in Switzerland are also all quite different from what you get in Singapore.
I also don't like having so many tourists around, especially the loud, noisy, and inconsiderate kind. When I visit a country I want to visit its local people and to try to understand their culture, not to see other tourists. But I digress.
I suggest eschewing the normal "see as much as I can see in as little time as possible" kisau type of mentality. It will just leave you with tourist fatigue and you won't get to really enjoy the place. Just pick two (or at the very most three) places as a base and explore the area from there.
I'm not sure if the glacier express is worth it as I have not been on it, but it sure is very expensive. You can get something similar (and cheaper) by just driving around some of the spectacular mountain passes. Nufenen pass is our favourite so far, we stopped to take so many photos. Nice valley with a rippling brook and so many wild flowers. Only thing missing was the champagne being cooled in the icy waters of the brook.
Hi Ariesta,
Yes the contrast is quite noticeable. In general German food, which forms much of the food in Switzerland, is a lot more salty than French food. Italian food tends to be a little on the salty side too.
I wouldn't really go so far as to say that it is pretty much like Singapore. As far as I know our leaders have stopped mentioning about the Swiss standard of living because we will never get there (not that I'm blaming the govt, some things are beyond our control; just that it's not so good to set an impossibly high standard to aim for). The interplay, relationships, and history between the major races in Switzerland are also all quite different from what you get in Singapore.
I also don't like having so many tourists around, especially the loud, noisy, and inconsiderate kind. When I visit a country I want to visit its local people and to try to understand their culture, not to see other tourists. But I digress.
Hi Raymond,
I intend to stay about 2 nights at each place. Berne, Zermatt and St Moritz or Berne, Wengen and Zermatt. Don't think it will be too tiring...2 nights at a place is just nice.
Won't be driving as driving is too tiring for my hubby. Would prefer to take train and enhor the scenery.
Money is not a concern.
So may I know which places did you visit in Switzerland?
I intend to stay about 2 nights at each place. Berne, Zermatt and St Moritz or Berne, Wengen and Zermatt. Don't think it will be too tiring...2 nights at a place is just nice.
Won't be driving as driving is too tiring for my hubby. Would prefer to take train and enhor the scenery.
Money is not a concern.
So may I know which places did you visit in Switzerland?
Hi Littlemay,
We stayed at Brunnen, Zermatt, and Interlaken. We drove around everywhere. Scenery was spectacular and we liked being able to stop wherever we wanted to take pictures. The glacier express is expensive but is probably a once-in-a-lifetime trip; I think it is spectacular in winter with everything covered in white.
We stayed at Brunnen, Zermatt, and Interlaken. We drove around everywhere. Scenery was spectacular and we liked being able to stop wherever we wanted to take pictures. The glacier express is expensive but is probably a once-in-a-lifetime trip; I think it is spectacular in winter with everything covered in white.
Hi Raymond,
I have read your postings on this website on other european countries and I must say you are pretty well travelled.
I myself would love your kind of holiday, spending at least a few days at a place, driving around and stopping whenever we feel like to smell the flowers along the way....But because of time constraints (u know singaporeas can't get much leave) and as I will be going in Dec, I think it wouldn't be wise to drive in winter. Besides I think the train system in europe is rather timely and efficient, having travelled on trains in Netherlands and England before.
Enough said....about my trip, actually I'm arriving in Milan. Will be staying about 3 nights in Milan before proceeding to Swziterland.
I am quite undecided about whether to go to St Moritz as it is at the east of switzerland and the train ride would take about 7.5 hours. Hence would like your opinion. But you didn't go to St Moritz did you?
Whereabouts did you stay at Interlaken? Can I find out more about your itinerary?
When did you go? In summer?
I have read your postings on this website on other european countries and I must say you are pretty well travelled.
I myself would love your kind of holiday, spending at least a few days at a place, driving around and stopping whenever we feel like to smell the flowers along the way....But because of time constraints (u know singaporeas can't get much leave) and as I will be going in Dec, I think it wouldn't be wise to drive in winter. Besides I think the train system in europe is rather timely and efficient, having travelled on trains in Netherlands and England before.
Enough said....about my trip, actually I'm arriving in Milan. Will be staying about 3 nights in Milan before proceeding to Swziterland.
I am quite undecided about whether to go to St Moritz as it is at the east of switzerland and the train ride would take about 7.5 hours. Hence would like your opinion. But you didn't go to St Moritz did you?
Whereabouts did you stay at Interlaken? Can I find out more about your itinerary?
When did you go? In summer?
Hi Littlemay,
I've stayed for four years in Holland so I am familiar with the weather and way of life in Europe. But yet I cannot say that I have seen much of Europe because it takes a lifetime to explore, and in recent years I've only been to Europe for two-three week vacations, mostly to France. So I'm not that well travelled. But Europe is like a second home to me and I am completely comfortable there.
Taking trains is also a good way to travel around and you are right, it is indeed timely and efficient; just not very cheap.
It's better than being herded around (sorry Idyll!
) in a tour bus.
I don't think leave is a problem; if I had only had a short time, say one week in France, I would spend at least four days in Paris and maybe three days in the Champagne region or something like that. I'll just do less places and explore more about each place; there is no need to visit as many places as possible as if ticking off a checklist.
You're right that it may not be so wise to drive around in winter in the mountainous regions due to possible frozen roads (you would need snow tires or chains on the tyres) and also shorter daylight hours. In our own experience our family has driven all the way from Holland to Austria (8-hour drive) for a skiing trip in winter before and it was fine; but that was because we were almost like permanent residents there.
I have not been to St Moritz so I don't know; but I did hear that it is a picture-perfect place where all the rich people go for a holiday and it even has its own perfect lake. I think it might be worth going as it might be less crowded than Interlaken or Lucern; but then I could be wrong.
We went in Summer (bad time due to crowds) and stayed at a lousy two-star hotel in Interlaken so I wouldn't recommend it to you. Brunnen was just an overnight stop (but we had the best ever Swiss breakfast there!) and we stayed three nights in Interlaken and two nights in Zermatt. We also did a bit of northern Italy and touched the French Alps. Altogether we were there for about 2.5 weeks.
Let us know if you need any other advice; there are other experienced Europe travellers around (Midas, Idyll, Mrs. N, and others) and I'm sure they can help you too.
I've stayed for four years in Holland so I am familiar with the weather and way of life in Europe. But yet I cannot say that I have seen much of Europe because it takes a lifetime to explore, and in recent years I've only been to Europe for two-three week vacations, mostly to France. So I'm not that well travelled. But Europe is like a second home to me and I am completely comfortable there.
Taking trains is also a good way to travel around and you are right, it is indeed timely and efficient; just not very cheap.
I don't think leave is a problem; if I had only had a short time, say one week in France, I would spend at least four days in Paris and maybe three days in the Champagne region or something like that. I'll just do less places and explore more about each place; there is no need to visit as many places as possible as if ticking off a checklist.
You're right that it may not be so wise to drive around in winter in the mountainous regions due to possible frozen roads (you would need snow tires or chains on the tyres) and also shorter daylight hours. In our own experience our family has driven all the way from Holland to Austria (8-hour drive) for a skiing trip in winter before and it was fine; but that was because we were almost like permanent residents there.
I have not been to St Moritz so I don't know; but I did hear that it is a picture-perfect place where all the rich people go for a holiday and it even has its own perfect lake. I think it might be worth going as it might be less crowded than Interlaken or Lucern; but then I could be wrong.
We went in Summer (bad time due to crowds) and stayed at a lousy two-star hotel in Interlaken so I wouldn't recommend it to you. Brunnen was just an overnight stop (but we had the best ever Swiss breakfast there!) and we stayed three nights in Interlaken and two nights in Zermatt. We also did a bit of northern Italy and touched the French Alps. Altogether we were there for about 2.5 weeks.
Let us know if you need any other advice; there are other experienced Europe travellers around (Midas, Idyll, Mrs. N, and others) and I'm sure they can help you too.
Hi Littlemay,
No I have not been to "Christmas" markets per se, but we've been to many markets in France. It's nice to see the fresh local produce being sold and we bought many things from those markets. It helps if you can speak a little French though.
I stayed at The Hague for four wonderful years. Really miss those days.
No I have not been to "Christmas" markets per se, but we've been to many markets in France. It's nice to see the fresh local produce being sold and we bought many things from those markets. It helps if you can speak a little French though.
I stayed at The Hague for four wonderful years. Really miss those days.
hi there.. anyone pls advise if late Nov is a gd period to visit Switzerland?
I am actually thinking between Switzerland and Italy. (i know i can do both..but i actually want to spend more time in one country)
I saw from some websites that Italy's late Nov may rain. Not too sure abt Swiss though?
I am actually thinking between Switzerland and Italy. (i know i can do both..but i actually want to spend more time in one country)
I saw from some websites that Italy's late Nov may rain. Not too sure abt Swiss though?
Hi Stacy,
All your answers can be found on:
http://www.worldweather.org/
And yes you are right; it is better to spend more time in one country.
All your answers can be found on:
http://www.worldweather.org/
And yes you are right; it is better to spend more time in one country.
Hi Stacy, I'm visiting in December, mid Dec to xmas. Will be going to Milan and maybe Lake Como(3days) and Switzerland (6 days). Will not be going to other parts of Italy as I have already been there.
We can exchange information since we are going around the same period. My concern is the same as yours....weather.....But no choice, my hubby and I can only take leave during this period.
We can exchange information since we are going around the same period. My concern is the same as yours....weather.....But no choice, my hubby and I can only take leave during this period.
hi littlemay..i haven't planned my itin in Switz though. Cos my intent is to tour italy 1st..haven't been there. so most likely will want to cover Rome, Florence and Venice & maybe Lake Como ( iread that it's nice) perhaps in 8 -9 days. the usual. then perhaps go over to Switz. not too sure...hehe.. still lookin at how many days of leave i can apply..if i can spare another week then i will go Switz
Hi Raymond,
I would like to seek your advise. We're planning for our dream honeymoon next April. We plan to visit Paris, London and Manchester F&E for at least 2 weeks. Do you think its too long? We've not work out the details of where to go. But we do know that we will visit the usual tourist location - Eiffel Tower, Disneyland Paris, The usual London tourist locations and Old Trafford Stadium.
Are you familiar with Paris, Manchester & London? Any reccomandations to visit nice locations within or nearby?
Do you have recomandations for accomdation in Paris? Do you know the cost per room for an average hotel?
Currently I'm also reading on guidebooks too!
I would like to seek your advise. We're planning for our dream honeymoon next April. We plan to visit Paris, London and Manchester F&E for at least 2 weeks. Do you think its too long? We've not work out the details of where to go. But we do know that we will visit the usual tourist location - Eiffel Tower, Disneyland Paris, The usual London tourist locations and Old Trafford Stadium.
Are you familiar with Paris, Manchester & London? Any reccomandations to visit nice locations within or nearby?
Do you have recomandations for accomdation in Paris? Do you know the cost per room for an average hotel?
Currently I'm also reading on guidebooks too!
Hi pebblez,
I am more familiar with Paris and France; have not been to London for 22 years and have never been to Manchester.
You can check out http://www.accorhotels.com, we stayed at IBIS hotels. The cost is about EUR 87 per night for a good location in Paris.
Guidebooks are good recommendations of places to visit.
I am more familiar with Paris and France; have not been to London for 22 years and have never been to Manchester.
You can check out http://www.accorhotels.com, we stayed at IBIS hotels. The cost is about EUR 87 per night for a good location in Paris.
Guidebooks are good recommendations of places to visit.
Hi all,
am planning my HM in Nov to Switzerland now. Btw for the benefit of al, I just found out that the Glacier Express will be suspended from end Oct to 9 Dec...
..sad huh? but there are other scenic trains to consider la...
I need some clarification on the Swiss Flexipass:
For example, if my itinerary is 10 Nov Zurich to Bern (Overnight in Berne until 11 Nov) but in between my train journey from Zurich to Berne, I want to visit Basel, is it possible with the Flexipass?
http://www.myswitzerland.com/en.cfm/travel/getting_around/page-Tab_Travel-Travel_GeetingAround-110206.html
am planning my HM in Nov to Switzerland now. Btw for the benefit of al, I just found out that the Glacier Express will be suspended from end Oct to 9 Dec...
I need some clarification on the Swiss Flexipass:
For example, if my itinerary is 10 Nov Zurich to Bern (Overnight in Berne until 11 Nov) but in between my train journey from Zurich to Berne, I want to visit Basel, is it possible with the Flexipass?
http://www.myswitzerland.com/en.cfm/travel/getting_around/page-Tab_Travel-Travel_GeetingAround-110206.html
thks Little May,
hows ur planning so far huh? My tentative itinerary would be:
2 night each at Geneva, Zermatt, Interlaken, Lucerne and Zurich. So total abt 11 days 10 nights.
Realised that it is slightly cheaper to book the air tickets directly on the airline website rather than through agencies. For example KLM website offers better prices..about $100 plus cheaper. But it is e tickets.
hows ur planning so far huh? My tentative itinerary would be:
2 night each at Geneva, Zermatt, Interlaken, Lucerne and Zurich. So total abt 11 days 10 nights.
Realised that it is slightly cheaper to book the air tickets directly on the airline website rather than through agencies. For example KLM website offers better prices..about $100 plus cheaper. But it is e tickets.
Hi Lily Bud, are you going to only Switzerland?
I am redeeming krisflyer miles on SQ. However, I have only got confirmed tickets to Milan, my tickets to Zurich are on waitlist. Hence depending on whether I finally manage to get tickets to Zurich, otherwise I will have to take a train from Milan to Switzerland and back. Well, can take this opportunity to do some shopping in Milan...prade, ferragamo...
I'm going to about the same places as you. Zurich, Bern, Lucerne, St Moritz, Glacier Express to Zermatt. May not be going to Interlaken though Not enough time..and I have already been to Geneva before.
Now I'm contemplating whether its worth it to go to the Top of Europe Jungfrau in Dec...What do you think Raymond?
I have already booked my accom at Zermatt (Hotel Mirabeau). STill deciding between Schweizerhof and Monopol at St Moritz
And yes, Raymond is right. E-ticket is very convenient, no problem, esp to developed countries
I am redeeming krisflyer miles on SQ. However, I have only got confirmed tickets to Milan, my tickets to Zurich are on waitlist. Hence depending on whether I finally manage to get tickets to Zurich, otherwise I will have to take a train from Milan to Switzerland and back. Well, can take this opportunity to do some shopping in Milan...prade, ferragamo...
I'm going to about the same places as you. Zurich, Bern, Lucerne, St Moritz, Glacier Express to Zermatt. May not be going to Interlaken though Not enough time..and I have already been to Geneva before.
Now I'm contemplating whether its worth it to go to the Top of Europe Jungfrau in Dec...What do you think Raymond?
I have already booked my accom at Zermatt (Hotel Mirabeau). STill deciding between Schweizerhof and Monopol at St Moritz
And yes, Raymond is right. E-ticket is very convenient, no problem, esp to developed countries
Hi Raymond,
yup heard from my friends that e-tickets are ok...just need to standby receipt in case during airport check in they want to check..
Hi Little May,
I dun have miles to redeem. huh u reckon Zurich has nothing much to see?..hmmm I go and check it out again..anyway my itinerary not confirmed yet...still can change.
Hey btw Glacier Express will not be available from Oct to 9 Dec...so just in case u are thinking of boarding one during this period.
yup heard from my friends that e-tickets are ok...just need to standby receipt in case during airport check in they want to check..
Hi Little May,
I dun have miles to redeem. huh u reckon Zurich has nothing much to see?..hmmm I go and check it out again..anyway my itinerary not confirmed yet...still can change.
Hey btw Glacier Express will not be available from Oct to 9 Dec...so just in case u are thinking of boarding one during this period.
Thanks LLBB.
I will be travelling from 15Dec onwards, so I hope the Glacier Express is available. The train schedule is not available on the website yet.
If I manage to get tickets to Zurich, I might spend all 9 nights in Switzerland. Maybe like that:
Day 1 : Touch down and tour Zurich. Overnight Zurich
Day 2: Day trip to Lucerne. O/N Zurich
Day 3 and 4: O/N St Moritz
Day 5: Glacier Ex to Zermatt. O/N Zermatt
Day 6: O/N Zermatt
Day 7: Zermatt to Bern, Tour Bern, O/N Bern
Day 8: Day trip to Interlaken. O/N Bern.
Day 9: Day trip to Montreaux or just relax in Inerlaken or Bern. O/N Bern.
This way, I don't have to keep changing hotels. At least 2 or 3 nights at a hotel.
And yes Raymond, the tickets for Jungfraubahn is really ex, even with my Swiss Pass, I still need to pay more than US$100.
I will be travelling from 15Dec onwards, so I hope the Glacier Express is available. The train schedule is not available on the website yet.
If I manage to get tickets to Zurich, I might spend all 9 nights in Switzerland. Maybe like that:
Day 1 : Touch down and tour Zurich. Overnight Zurich
Day 2: Day trip to Lucerne. O/N Zurich
Day 3 and 4: O/N St Moritz
Day 5: Glacier Ex to Zermatt. O/N Zermatt
Day 6: O/N Zermatt
Day 7: Zermatt to Bern, Tour Bern, O/N Bern
Day 8: Day trip to Interlaken. O/N Bern.
Day 9: Day trip to Montreaux or just relax in Inerlaken or Bern. O/N Bern.
This way, I don't have to keep changing hotels. At least 2 or 3 nights at a hotel.
And yes Raymond, the tickets for Jungfraubahn is really ex, even with my Swiss Pass, I still need to pay more than US$100.
And oh LLBB, actually what I meant in my previous post about Zurich is that I don't think there's a need to stay 2 nights at Lucerne and 2 nights at Zurich.
Maybe you can stay more nights at Lucerne and then take a day trip to Zurich. Cos its only about 55 mins train ride away...no point changing hotels so frequently. That's my personal view.
For my case, I chose to stay at Zurich instead of Lucerne for 2 nights because there is no direct train from Lucerne to St Moritz.
Maybe you can stay more nights at Lucerne and then take a day trip to Zurich. Cos its only about 55 mins train ride away...no point changing hotels so frequently. That's my personal view.
For my case, I chose to stay at Zurich instead of Lucerne for 2 nights because there is no direct train from Lucerne to St Moritz.
runaway_pig
New Member
Hi littlemay!
which hotels are you looking at for your stay above? I'm planning something along the same line, but worried about accomodation...
which hotels are you looking at for your stay above? I'm planning something along the same line, but worried about accomodation...
Hi all,
For Jungfraubahn, you may wish to consider:
http://www.hotel-blume.ch/e_index.html
Not the best of hotels; our bed was too soft, but the "Special packages" on the website may be worth checking out. The location of the hotel is quite good though.
For Jungfraubahn, you may wish to consider:
http://www.hotel-blume.ch/e_index.html
Not the best of hotels; our bed was too soft, but the "Special packages" on the website may be worth checking out. The location of the hotel is quite good though.
Hi lily_bud,
Check out:
http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~rtan/France/fne.html
and look for the section "Map It". You'll be spoiled for choice.
Check out:
http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~rtan/France/fne.html
and look for the section "Map It". You'll be spoiled for choice.
Hi Joyce,
I'd love to, but why not just hop over to any bookstore and browse through any guide on Switzerland? Different couples have different ideas of an ideal honeymoon.
For example, our next trip will be to France in May - June 2008, and we will be doing Paris, Champagne, Bordeaux, Perigord, Provence, and probably Lyon. I hope no one follows our itinerary as every couple is unique in their tastes and preferences.
As usual, we'll be eschewing the standard touristy spots and going for the little-known gems.
I'd love to, but why not just hop over to any bookstore and browse through any guide on Switzerland? Different couples have different ideas of an ideal honeymoon.
For example, our next trip will be to France in May - June 2008, and we will be doing Paris, Champagne, Bordeaux, Perigord, Provence, and probably Lyon. I hope no one follows our itinerary as every couple is unique in their tastes and preferences.
As usual, we'll be eschewing the standard touristy spots and going for the little-known gems.
Hi joyce.. y not u try the switzerland tourism website.. u actually can request for some of the brochures from them or download them..
www.myswitzerland.com.
You can borrow tour guide book from the library also. I had just borrowed one book from Fodors' that is pretty good n comprehensive with lots of recommendations for places to visit, hotels to stay and places to eat.
www.myswitzerland.com.
You can borrow tour guide book from the library also. I had just borrowed one book from Fodors' that is pretty good n comprehensive with lots of recommendations for places to visit, hotels to stay and places to eat.
Joyce have you tried looking at the virtual tourist website? You can pick up some useful tips and recommendations from people who have visited these places.
Hi,
We did not stay in Zermatt, but in Tasch, which is a 10-15 minute train ride away, and the train ride is not cheap. But actually staying in Zermatt is a lot more interesting as there is almost nothing in Tasch.
For Venice, we stayed at the following hotel for 90 Euros per night:
http://www.hotelaidomori.com/
Take note that as with most Italian hotels, the rooms and bathrooms are tiny, and you need to lug your luggage up four tiny and steep flights of stairs as the buildings are old; there are no elevator and it is Venice after all. Having said that, the bed is comfortable enough and the amenities basic but modern. The location of the hotel is very good.
We did not stay in any of the other towns.
If you are on a tight budget, please don't be the typical kiasu Singaporean wanting to visit as many places as possible in as little time as possible (think about the typical Europe itinerary from the local travel agencies here which I absolutely balk at), as train tickets are not cheap and it is a great hassle to travel around if you don't have a car; imagine all that luggage lugging! It's far better to just stay more nights at less places. You will also enjoy the holiday better as it is less rushed and more relaxed.
We did not stay in Zermatt, but in Tasch, which is a 10-15 minute train ride away, and the train ride is not cheap. But actually staying in Zermatt is a lot more interesting as there is almost nothing in Tasch.
For Venice, we stayed at the following hotel for 90 Euros per night:
http://www.hotelaidomori.com/
Take note that as with most Italian hotels, the rooms and bathrooms are tiny, and you need to lug your luggage up four tiny and steep flights of stairs as the buildings are old; there are no elevator and it is Venice after all. Having said that, the bed is comfortable enough and the amenities basic but modern. The location of the hotel is very good.
We did not stay in any of the other towns.
If you are on a tight budget, please don't be the typical kiasu Singaporean wanting to visit as many places as possible in as little time as possible (think about the typical Europe itinerary from the local travel agencies here which I absolutely balk at), as train tickets are not cheap and it is a great hassle to travel around if you don't have a car; imagine all that luggage lugging! It's far better to just stay more nights at less places. You will also enjoy the holiday better as it is less rushed and more relaxed.
