Planning surprise HM for my wife to Europe

idealone

Member
There are many countries there. Planning for F&E trip. Any suggestions? Can a Singapore driving licence be used to drive there?
We will be taking a month off work and so have lots of time to tour about. However, after the 50 tables dinner reception, the $$ left over will not be a lot. Can try to squeeze but have to plan for the trip first to see how much is needed. :p
So, anyone can help?
I've an idea to travel and stay at different hotels to save time traveling back to the same hotel again. Issit a good idea?
 


rubberducky

New Member
No ideas, but your idea of a surprise honeymoon is sooo sweet!
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I'm sure your wife will be delirious with joy. Have fun planning!
 

rtan

New Member
Hi Roger Low,

I applaud your idea of going F&E to Europe. You may find my websites useful in your planning. They are written for France and Paris, but much of the information is applicable to any Western European country:

http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~rtan/France/
http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~rtan/Paris/
http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~rtan/France/fne.html
http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~rtan/France/nopackage.html

It is generally a good idea to stay at one place for at least three nights, so that it is not too short (can explore the place) and not too long. Some places like Paris require at least five days to tour the city properly.
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I have had no problems using a Singapore Driver's Licence to rent a car in France and Switzerland, but it is better to get the International Driving Permit just in case you are stopped by the police and they do not understand English. Anyway it's only SGD 20 for one year.

As a benchmark on how much money you need, for our honeymoon in June, we went to Switzerland, Italy, and France. Switzerland and Italy are very expensive. We spent a total of SGD 8.5k (for two persons) for 17 days, and stayed in 2 - 4 star hotels, including three nights of dinner cooked by a two-star Michelin chef in France.
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If you need any more specific information, feel free to post here.
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idealone

Member
Thanks Raymond, I could only check your post when my fiancee is sleeping. Ha ha ha Well, she is with me most of the time. We work in the same company too. So, planning a surprise is a covert ops man. Thanks for the advice.
Where to get international licence?
I think I'll plan for min 4 countries first. And search for the possible sight seeing places in each countries.
Where is Prague? My fiancee mentioned about it last night. Cos the place was being offered as a prize in a lucky draw or something. :p
 

rtan

New Member
Hi Roger,

To get your International Drivers Permit:

http://www.aas.com.sg/services/permit.htm

Prague is in the Czech Republic, but I don't recommend you go there F&E because it is not as safe as Western Europe especially for first timers.

If it's your first time to Europe, there are plenty of nice places in Western Europe; e.g. I recommend France, Switzerland, Italy, and either Austria or Spain, depending on your budget. BTW what is your budget like?
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alhana

New Member
Roger

That's a really sweet gesture.

Prague is beautiful. It's a very old world European city. There's a thread here on travelling in Prague..check it out. I've always wanted to visit Prague..but no money now..keke.

Anyway, if you want travel tips, a great site to visit is http://www.virtualtourist.com It has a great forum with tips and advice given by both travellers and locals. Check it out.
 

idealone

Member
Thanks Raymond... Budget around 10K. Enough? Any recommendations?
France, Switzerland, Italy, and Spain
This is wat I have in mind.
My fiancee is now occupied in my PS2 so I have some window of time. Ha ha
Just went to SA Tours to get some Eurpope brochures and get a Maldives brochure to throw her off my track. :p "phew"
OK, so I'll leave Prague out for the moment.
Concentrate on the 4 countries and see what are the possible sight seeing places there and most importantly, how to get around.
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rtan

New Member
Hi Roger,

Hmm... for 30 days, that is a bit tight. Would it be you and your wife-to-be's first time there? The best would just be to drive around, though trains are worth considering too. Each has its pros and cons.

You should probably stick to France and Spain then; they are the cheaper countries. Switzerland and Italy are more expensive by far.

As an example, you can get very decent accommodation in France for EUR 60 - 70 per night (about SGD 120 - 140). But in Switzerland, it would cost like CHF 150, and in Italy, about EUR 100 and above. Not sure what Spain is like but my hunch is that it is around the France pricing or cheaper. An example of accommodation in France:

http://www.accorhotels.com/ (You should be looking at Ibis hotels or better)

Similarly for food. And nothing beats French food.
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Or you could spend more days in France and Spain, and less in Switzerland and Italy.

Some places offer cheaper long term accommodation; e.g. on per week basis. That is another possibility. For example, in Italy, you could stay in a castle for as little as EUR 480 per week.

An example of a castle in Italy (got them from Midas):

http://www.castellodicafaggio.com/
http://midas400.multiply.com/photos
http://www.tuscany.net/
http://www.tuscany.net/cafaggio/pages/gallery.htm

More about Italy castles (again from Midas):

http://www6.countrymanors.com/
http://www.italyby.com/
http://www.montegufoniandmore.com/
http://www.slowtrav.com/italy/instructions/index.htm

For your budget, it is far better to stay longer in one place and travel less; you save on transportation, and are able to get discounts by staying on per-week basis. There is no need to try to visit every possible place in Europe.
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Perhaps you should browse through some travel guide books in the library or your favourite book store for an idea. That is, if you have the chance to.
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idealone

Member
How about around 20 days? 5 days at each destination?

In this order : Spain France Swiss Italy Or Italy Swiss France Spain.

Will buy one way ticket to the first country and Fly back from the last one that we visited.

Saw your write ups,
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need to ask, the car rental can drive anywhere in Europe? Or rent in Italy, drive in Italy?

You mentioned that there are jams? how about parking? need coupons or anything?

This is our first time there and I've to plan this in secret so I've only one ave to get info and thats here. Sorry about stupid questions. :p
 

rtan

New Member
Hi Roger,

Either order is fine; note that you would then be travelling through the Alps, which would take a bit more time than travelling on flatter land. The plane ticket you need would be an open-jaw one, which often costs more than a normal return trip.

Ok so if five days in each country, which cities or towns do you plan to stay? Each country is sorta a lot bigger than Singapore.
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Usually the car rental can be driven in any of these four countries. Due to the Schengen Agreement, travel between Italy, France, and Spain is borderless and you probably do not even need to stop. Travel to/from Switzerland probably requires passport checks.

Yes, big cities tend to have jams, smaller towns are fine. Parking varies from city to city and town to town. Some places have the normal barrier parking; others require you to purchase a ticket from a machine which you display in the car. Of course there are the usual parking meters too.

I think you are embarking on quite an ambitious project considering it's your first time; I'll be happy to help as much as I can.

Have you travelled much before to other places? Say, Australia / NZ, or America? Have you done any road trips before?

Do note that I am very comfortable with Western Europe as I spent four years of my life there: its customs, culture, and people; that's why I can write and travel with so much confidence; I never get lost even when driving into a city or town for the first time; my wife just holds up the maps for me and I take quick looks if necessary. If navigating is not your forte you may wish to consider the trains instead, and find accommodation near to the train stations.
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Don't want you to get lost too much and spoil your honeymoon.
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Pardon me for saying but I think you really need to get your hands on a guide book somehow, maybe ask a friend to lend you? They can provide so much more information in one compact place. Websites like tripadvisor etc. are useful and of course you could keep Googling but it's hard to collate all the information together.
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And I could never tell you all that you need to know since I am definitely no expert; just someone who loves Europe a lot.
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idealone

Member
Thanks Raymond, yes this is a big project and i still have 6 months to plan it. So with careful planning, we might get it through. ha ha ha

Planning for free and easy trips, we have done it quite a lot in Asia countries. This is the first time I'm doing it to a total alien place to me. Quite an advanture I must say.

I've a GPS navigation system and lots of map reading "practices" in the army. So I'll be putting it in good use. But I know that to navigate in Lim Chu Kang and from France to Spain is very different. :p

My wife dun drive, so I'll be doing the driving all the time. Lets hope I dun die of exhausion. The cars other than left hand drive is in automatic right? From your write-up it seems that I no need orientation and can drive immediately. First time encountering a left hand drive car.

Drive through the Alps!!! Is the road trecheous? I guess the nights are like driving in malaysia, with no street lamps on the highway right? Any help if vehicle breaks down?
My long range driving experience comes from driving up and down 2nd link to KL. Thats all. Hope that it's enough though.

Do i have to plan for stopovers along the way or will there be signs indicating the stopovers places?(eg for toilet breaks, topping up of gas, food...)

Lets say from country to country, approx how long is the jounery driving at say 100km/hr? Any speed limits? (in foreign land, i think i'll not do faster that this) The north-south highway has a max limits of 110km/h and usually i do more than that. :p
 

idealone

Member
Thanks for the info you've provided so far. It's very useful and I'll keep in mind to get a few books on the places.

By the way, you mentioned trains. Not a bad idea... will it be a cheaper alternative to get around? ;P

FYI, my fiancee really think that I'm planning for a trip to the Maldives. Maybe I'll tell her halfway that we will be going China and trick her to buy some warm clothings. Ha ha ha

When will it be the Autum period? Hope that it is not bitterly cold. And I dun have experience driving on ice!!! Ha ha :p

Wedding will be early July and after resting for 1~2 days, we should be going off. Thats my plan.
 

rtan

New Member
Hi Roger,

Four countries is no joke; though the countries are similar, but each is different and unique in its own way. I guess since it's your first time you wish to cover more countries; though personally my wife and I would probably just do France and a bit of Spain since we just did Italy and Switzerland for our honeymoon. In fact, we don't mind doing France in one month; it is such a big country and there is so much to see and do.

Last May, we had the option of doing France, Germany, Switzerland, but decided in the end to stick to one country; so we were in France for 19 days. Even then it was quite rushed and we merely scraped the tip of the iceberg.
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Just make sure you don't drive more than the four hours that you are used to. So you need to plan your route carefully. Mountain roads take about twice the time to travel through. Both times, I rented manual cars; but automatic cars are available too. You need a while to get used to driving on the right hand side of the road, so just drive slowly at first.

The Alps are fine; it's like driving up to Cameron highlands. No problems in Summer. If vehicle breaks down, contact the rental car company.

You can easily see stopovers; e.g. petrol stations, small towns, supermarkets, etc. No problem, and it's part of the fun; having lunch in a quiet small town where few Singaporeans have ever ventured.
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Speed limits are about 130 km/h; if you drive at 100 km/h you will find that you are almost the slowest vehicle there, apart from the bicycles. Haha. Get used to it. But the drivers are generally more polite than in SG; they don't tailgate.
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Trains may or may not be cheaper; you don't need to navigate, but you need to know how to transfer trains, buy the tickets, look after your luggage, and find accommodation near the train station. Car rental gives you a lot more flexibility and you can explore those places unreachable by trains; but you need to navigate and plan your route. Personally I always drive; it's part of the enjoyable experience for me. Can stop as and when you like to take pictures; but you can't ask the train driver to stop.
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July is Summer, so unlikely to be cold unless you are in the mountains where it could get chilly. Take note it is the peak period so you should book your plane tickets and accommodation early.
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In fact, if you are doing only France I could plan something for you; but then that takes the fun out of going F&E for you. Part of the fun is in planning, reading guide books, and choosing exactly where you want to go, and even sometimes eschewing the popular and crowded tourist spots for undiscovered and hidden gems.
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kxbc

New Member
You have 30 days. Do 3 countries, 10 days each. Start with France, then Spain then probably Switzerland. Don't do more than that. Take the time to explore each country. Take it slow and steady. Better still. Just do 2 countries: France (sweet, romantic, culture) and Spain (colourful, passion, robust). Your $ will stretch even further. These 2 are really nice countries and they contrast each other well. In France, you can savour a bit of switzerland if you go to the French alps in Charmonix. Leave Switzerland, italy for your next trip.

Switzerland is the most ex, followed by France and Spain.

I recommend starting in France because the public transport system in France is comprehensive and if you can navigate France, you can easily do Spain and Switzerland. Consider using trains for long dist travel as it is tiring to be the sole driver all the time. Can buy Eurail passes at Thomas Cook (or whatever name it has changed to now) at ground floor of Caltex House. check out the eurail website. Train network is good in Europe. I use the public transport (train, tube, buses, cabs) whenever I travel in Europe.

Cars are good if you are in the smaller towns. Traffic is lighter than the cities and you get to navigate around the quaint and beautiful villages. Pack a picnic lunch, drive out to an open field and enjoy your afternoon out.

Jul is summer and too packed with tourists. So is August and early Sep. Everything will be too congested and expensive. I personally prefer early autumn (very late Sep and Oct). Weather is light (autumn jacket sufficient) and days are long enough. Tourist traffic is less. Museums stay open almost as long as summer times. Accomodation is cheaper than summer and you have a wider selection.

I personally prefer the Rick Steve's range of guidebooks. He specialises in European countries and likes museums, old castles and quaint beautiful places not on the usual tourist map. His travel guides are thin (no overload of info) and has more than sufficient info to help you plan your trip. Makan and accomodation recommendations are good.

I never really like Frommer's or Lonely Planet because they are too loaded with info and do not prioritise. Rick Steve's books prioritise, telling you what you should do and what you can afford to miss. Simple to read and easy to understand. You can buy them from Borders. Get the latest version as prices and opening times keep changing every year. I've been to Europe F&E more than a few times and I only rely on his guide books.

Don't ever be put off because the locals do not speak English. I do not speak any 3rd language myself but never had any problem reaching my destinations on time. I have met so many helpful French and Spanish who will point us to the right direction and perhaps share a chicken-duck conversation with. Of course, it's always good to know a few local phrases.

Enjoy your planning. I find that good planning helps you to understand your host country much better than the average tourist who goes on a guided tour and just step on and off the tour bus.
 

kxbc

New Member
Roger, your topic about F&E Europe makes my mind go spin around non stop again.
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I have done Spain and France on 2 separate trips (each trip at least 12 days) F&E just with my wife so I may be able to offer you some info.

On your planning to drive. Don't drive if you don't feel confident. Take the public transport. It's good and easy to use. european system is similar more or less across all countries. Buy your ticket, validate it at the machine before you board the train or bus (sometime validating machines are on the buses). Use Eurail passes for peace of mind. You can do unlimited trips if you buy the correct combi.

Won't advise you to drive in capital cities especially Paris and Madrid. No point at all. Paris underground is superb and easy to navigate. Don't be scared by the number of lines and stops they have. You just need to know which line you need to take, what is the end station for that line and you just head for that based on the numerous directions you find in the underground station. It is even easier in Madrid. Less lines and less complicated.

Best alternative is to walk. You get to experience street culture and life if you walk. You smell food and coffee coming out from the cafes, the sweet fragrance from the florists, the smell of fresh bread from the bakery and many more. Just be careful of dog poo in France, esp Paris. They are all over the streets.

Be aware that you may need to drive through mountainous terrains too and all too often, these raods are very narrow and winding and one wrong turn may mean you are at the bottom of the cliff. You need to take this into consideration when you plan your route.

Leave the driving only to and between smaller towns. Take the trains into the bigger cities. Just don't be too awed by the size of the train stations and look too lost. There are always people who will prey on lost tourists. There are not many but one bad experience may just marr your trip. For the record, I have not had any bad experiences with tricksters in Europe except for one in 1995 in Paris when I was still a greenhorn in backpacking.

A lot of people are afraid to do F&E because they have this thing that europe is dangerous and full of sinister looking folks. I can tell you it's all crap. Exercise the usual caution and be slightly more cynical and you'll be fine. Not everyone dressed in a dark leather jacket with their hands stuck in their pockets is a "bad" person. Black leather jackets are just commonly sold. And they stick their hands in the pockets with their shoulders hunched because the weather is cold.

I wish you good luck on your planning. Good thing you have 6 months to plan.
 

noxy

New Member
Paris is very easy to navigate by foot and train. And it is very romantic place.

Since its gonna be a HM, i'd strongly suggest you pick at most 2 to 3 countries. Once you are overloaded, chances are, you will be burnt out in the planning stage even before you managed to surprise your wife.

I don't have as much experience as the rest of the forumers but I've personally travelled France (Paris, Versailles) and Italy (Venice, Rome, Florance) in about 18 days under 4k.

4K includes the following:
- return airfare to paris on MAS
- return airfare from paris to venice (budget airlines)
- 2 nights stay at hotel in rome

As you can see, i only spent 2 nights in a hotel, the rest were at my frn's sister's hostel or at another frn's house.

Alot of money went into transportation. Europe can be very expensive.

Personally i got cheated twice. The cashier at the effiel tower short changed me by quite abit. always remember to count your change infront of them before you leave
 

kxbc

New Member
This is the Rick Steves website. His travel guides are much better but you can get a flavour here first. If you are old enough, you may remember seeing his travel shows on TV in the 1980s. TCS/Starhub don't show them anymore.

http://www.ricksteves.com/
 

idealone

Member
Thanks kxbc, noxy, I'll be hitting the guide books soon.
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I could spend entire trip in one country eg France but me, as a typical singaporean frog staying in the bottom of the well, thinks that 20 days will be too long for a single country. Dunno wat are the destinations and places to look at. (thats y have to hit the books first) ha ha

Ok, after deciding, maybe i'll take 2 countries for a start. Ha ha ha Read up and look for the good places to go for sightseeing and shopping.
10 days in each country. Maybe i'll take a mixture of public transport and self drive.

Anyway, I'm 26 and dun remember watching the travel shows. Maybe I'l still too busy playing with my toys back then. ha ha ha :p

Without hitting the books, offhand, I only know the effile tower in paris worth going. Thats how 'much' info I have now. *sigh*

I'll sign off for a while to hit the books. Will be updating and sharing my plans with you guys. Feel free to let me know if I need to do adjustments. I understand that nothing is perfect, being happy and able to enjoy is the ultimate goal.

Thanks... Wait for my blueprint to form first ba.
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noxy

New Member
Roger, it's different Singapore so small, France is SO BIG. Very BIG. 20 days not enough to cover everything. The city itself, paris, 10 days 'maybe' only enough. I didn't even manage to finish it in 8 days. Take for example the musee du lourve, I did not even finish walking it in half a day.

Don't try to squeeze too many things. If not, it will be a hectic HM. The best thing abt FnE is you can take your own sweet time to enjoy. Don't make it like a tour, rush here rush there.

Do try to read up a little about the history as well. It will help you to understand the place better.

Have fun planning!
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rtan

New Member
Heck, I stayed four years in Holland and we didn't even cover half of Holland; there was just so much else to see and do in Western Europe. In half a day, we covered half a wing of one floor... and there are 3-4 floors in the Louvre.

You could spend a whole lifetime exploring France, let alone Europe.
 

idealone

Member
Ha ha ha ok... it seems that it's a good idea is to stay in france and tour it as through as possible in 20 days! Thanks guys... now, I'll look up on the various sites in France and read up on the history. At least i can give my wife a running commentry. :p

Well, from 4 countries down to 2 and now only 1. Thats France!!! hee~

Any recommendation? I tried looking for a map of france but all i got was cities. The borders told me france too big to fit inside 1 map :p and the map shows only individual cities.

So, any recommendation? I'll definately go paris and try to get on top of the tower...
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mrs_n

New Member
Not too sure if this is what you want but I find www.viamichelin.com quite good for maps. I often use it to get driving directions.
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Just play about with the (+ and -) on the website and it will give you maps in different scales to suit your needs.

Or alternatively you can go to the library and borrow a book on France.
 

rtan

New Member
Hi Roger,

I have written a guide on planning your own F&E trip to France:

http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~rtan/France/fne.html

For maps, look under "Map It" for online maps worth checking out and printing, as well as the "Getting Around" section which has a link to a good map (directory) of France and also a guide to how I print out different scales of maps to the hotel I want to get to.
 

idealone

Member
ha ha revived!!!! Sorry for being dormant for such a long time. Planning completed and so far so good. now taking French lang lesson with my wife (wanted to keep from her but too bad, i need her to learn the lang too) Ha ha ha
 

rtan

New Member
Hi Roger,

Great! So when are you going, and how are you going to travel around? Could you give us a rough itinerary? Does your wife read this forum?
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I'm leaving for France this coming Sat for work. My wife will then be joining me two weeks later.
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idealone

Member
Hi, I'm back! 22 days in France shiok... almost dun wanna come back! haha

My wife too, unwilling to leave the country.
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rtan

New Member
Hi Roger,

Wow, great that both of you had a wonderful trip. Care to share the highlights with us?
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Or if you have a travel blog, just point us to it.
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idealone

Member
My travel blog. Have have but I write very slowly. It hs been 1 month since we came back and I've only written 2 blog on it. and futhermore, I dun know how to post photos!!! wa lao... wan to show also difficut.
 

cloud0829

New Member
Hi Raymond & all,

Saw this thread while doing my HM research today. Seems like France is really a good place for HM. Initially, I also think of travelling in more countries in Europe but after Roger's experience, I might just stick to 1-2.

BTW, Late Nov/Dec is it a good time to travel to France?

Hi Roger,

Would u mind to share with me your itinery?
 

idealone

Member
6 months before I fly, I plan everything from places of interest to visit, where to rent car and how much to pay for it, which route to take, where to stay to where the nearest rail is as a back up plan.

Well, the day after my wedding night, i woke up in the afternoon and book the very next flight to PARIS. Which is on the next evening 10pm. So we spend watever time we have slowly packing and getting ready.

We took KLM and stop over at amsterdam before transfering to paris.

First time for me and my wife in europe and going for 22 days plus self driving is really an adventure for us! ha ha Although i plan for it in detail but the excitement is still there cos dunno wat to anticipate next.
 

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