actually i dun quite understand - I mean no offence to anyone - the gahmen dun encourage singaporean men to marry eg: domestic workers (eg: Filipino / Indonesian maids) but allow foreign brides (eg: Vietnamese, Kalimantan)whose education / earning power is sometimes lower / on par with a work permit holder. Isn't that going against govt's interest not to have the "burden" for the couple & offsprings - if you noe what i mean...
A Place for Singles
- Thread starter tradingacct
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ah siao, dun buy house if you can stay w parents, cos actually the pty prices are ridiculous now. If you have spare money, invest instead.
simpleman, yes i understnad the rule of 78. The car we're getting is definitely over $55k. We're not thinking of changing the car for next 4 yrs, so no worries. 7 yrs is based on the mthly payment we can afford to make right now w/o causing too much cashflow problems. Like I said, I'm giving myself 1 or 2 yrs to make it cos the reason for having the car is purely for work. If not, we can do w/o the car as we've done so for so long.
simpleman, yes i understnad the rule of 78. The car we're getting is definitely over $55k. We're not thinking of changing the car for next 4 yrs, so no worries. 7 yrs is based on the mthly payment we can afford to make right now w/o causing too much cashflow problems. Like I said, I'm giving myself 1 or 2 yrs to make it cos the reason for having the car is purely for work. If not, we can do w/o the car as we've done so for so long.
Ya 4 rm if you're really getting married and moving out lor 
My suggestion for studio and 2-bedrm is only if you're still staying w mum & dad but want to own pty mah... can generate passive income if you do it correctly. Then next time when getting married can upgrade lor.. use the cash from rental to offset mah.
My suggestion for studio and 2-bedrm is only if you're still staying w mum & dad but want to own pty mah... can generate passive income if you do it correctly. Then next time when getting married can upgrade lor.. use the cash from rental to offset mah.siao, buy a house lah... the prices u see now still have alot of potential to go up... as for car, best to join as many lucky draws as possible... ie best denki, courts etc...
or u can buy Atrium at geylang and get a proton gen-2, beri nice car i find... like my old alfa 146...
or u can buy Atrium at geylang and get a proton gen-2, beri nice car i find... like my old alfa 146...
G, if u are gonna have cashflow becos of the 5yr-loan, then maybe have to save longer... becos looking ahead, u're unlikely to be able to sell your car without incurring heavy losses... nomatter how cheap we cars are now...
in future cars will be cheaper, and it'll be more usage-based...
in future cars will be cheaper, and it'll be more usage-based...
Huh.. powder, you really think that there is more upside to current pty prices? May I ask based on what?
As for the car, it's possible to get by if we stick to our budget strictly and take the 5 yr loan, but hb's colleague advised us to take 7 yr to ease cashflow. I'm not sure.. have to check the actual price of the car and work out the math again. Like I said the car is really for work. My budget is based on worse case scenario with everything thrown in. Still got surplus though. Anyway, have mentally prepared that in case need to sell, we'll definitely suffer losses. That one is bobian.. but not having a car wld be quite tough for the job though..
As for the car, it's possible to get by if we stick to our budget strictly and take the 5 yr loan, but hb's colleague advised us to take 7 yr to ease cashflow. I'm not sure.. have to check the actual price of the car and work out the math again. Like I said the car is really for work. My budget is based on worse case scenario with everything thrown in. Still got surplus though. Anyway, have mentally prepared that in case need to sell, we'll definitely suffer losses. That one is bobian.. but not having a car wld be quite tough for the job though..
Hi, don't mind me joining this thread for a bit. Couldn't help get excited by all this discussion about housing. My husband and I almost jumped into property recently but held back after we did our sums.
I think property mkt will be strong going till at least end 2008. The relaxation of CPF rules coupled with alot of launches, and a strong economy. This will result in a bouyant property market.I don't think it's property bubble waiting to burst cos I think the percentage of speculators is small.Rather, it follows the economic trend.
I think the property mkt will dip in 2011 - 2014.
I think property mkt will be strong going till at least end 2008. The relaxation of CPF rules coupled with alot of launches, and a strong economy. This will result in a bouyant property market.I don't think it's property bubble waiting to burst cos I think the percentage of speculators is small.Rather, it follows the economic trend.
I think the property mkt will dip in 2011 - 2014.
Hi Cactus, yeah prices are said to continue climbing for the next yr at least. I guess Powder is saying buy now before it goes higher, but it also depends on how long you wanna hold the pty. It's ok if you buy a private pty and sell off before the dip, but if you get a HDB, you can't offload for 5 yrs, by which time the mkt cld have gone down and you'll be selling at a loss. So qn is what if you really need to sell it..
I think the pty mkt may dip earlier than 2011. Anyway, many other factors too la.. SG economy seems slower this yr, global economy may be affected by US & middle-east. Yup.. no one can predict when bubble will burst.
ah siao, the donut q is always long la.. i gave up nong nong ago liao. Nvrmind...that's gd.. prevents me from snacking!
I think the pty mkt may dip earlier than 2011. Anyway, many other factors too la.. SG economy seems slower this yr, global economy may be affected by US & middle-east. Yup.. no one can predict when bubble will burst.
ah siao, the donut q is always long la.. i gave up nong nong ago liao. Nvrmind...that's gd.. prevents me from snacking!
I'm sure keeping my fingers crossed for property to dip before 2011!! At the moment husband and I will be staying with both sides' parents for the time-being until property dips. We missed the boat in 2003/2004...
Actually for HDB flat, I think if you don't take HDB loan or don't buy direct from HDB or don't take any grant from HDB/CPF, you don't need to hold HDB for 5 years. I think it's only 2.5 yrs or less.. forget now.
Anyway, it's best not to buy and sell property in a short span of time. Cos we sure lose $ in terms of agents' commission, renovation, stamp duty, legal fees, etc. Unless it is a steep upward trend, then may profit.. like in the early 1990s.
Actually for HDB flat, I think if you don't take HDB loan or don't buy direct from HDB or don't take any grant from HDB/CPF, you don't need to hold HDB for 5 years. I think it's only 2.5 yrs or less.. forget now.
Anyway, it's best not to buy and sell property in a short span of time. Cos we sure lose $ in terms of agents' commission, renovation, stamp duty, legal fees, etc. Unless it is a steep upward trend, then may profit.. like in the early 1990s.
Actually, the plan husband and I have now is to save up as much as possible and stay with parents in the meantime. If conflict with parents arise, then we will move out to rent. But we will only buy if the pricing is comfortable and only if we are certain we will spend most of our married life in that property. The next property we buy will be our retirement home.. probably a HDB flat or studio condo.
I agree with Powder that now is a good time to buy ppty before the mkt goes up further, but there are some considerations before doing this too.
If the cash outlay is little and the resulting loan is huge, it may not be worth while buying property now. Cos you may end up servicing a very long term housing loan and the interst you pay could amount to 1/3 of your principal loaned amount! Not to mention your CPF OA $ which could form a valuable part of your retirement $.
If the cash you have now is huge, it may be more worth while putting it in safe investments and use the interest to pay off your rental. Some pple I know have enough savings to actually generate interest of $1k/month. That would be enough to rent a HDB flat in almost any location, or just top up by about $500 to have a wide selection of studio/2 bedroom condos. After all, as a tenant you don't bear the costs of repair due to natural wear and tear, maintenance charges, property tax, etc. no need to buy furniture too. some landlords even absorb utilities bills!
Apart from buying and renting, the other option is to stay with parents but this may not be possible for every couple.
If the cash outlay is little and the resulting loan is huge, it may not be worth while buying property now. Cos you may end up servicing a very long term housing loan and the interst you pay could amount to 1/3 of your principal loaned amount! Not to mention your CPF OA $ which could form a valuable part of your retirement $.
If the cash you have now is huge, it may be more worth while putting it in safe investments and use the interest to pay off your rental. Some pple I know have enough savings to actually generate interest of $1k/month. That would be enough to rent a HDB flat in almost any location, or just top up by about $500 to have a wide selection of studio/2 bedroom condos. After all, as a tenant you don't bear the costs of repair due to natural wear and tear, maintenance charges, property tax, etc. no need to buy furniture too. some landlords even absorb utilities bills!
Apart from buying and renting, the other option is to stay with parents but this may not be possible for every couple.
Ya you can definitely save a bundle if you stay w parents. Unfortunately I can't 
Wld go crazy if I stay w either side... Besides hb and I like our own space and privacy. Guess it's a price we have to pay. Yup, dun believe in speculating in pty or buy/sell in short term unless have a lot spare cash.
Wld go crazy if I stay w either side... Besides hb and I like our own space and privacy. Guess it's a price we have to pay. Yup, dun believe in speculating in pty or buy/sell in short term unless have a lot spare cash.G-gal, I know what you mean.my husband and I also value privacy, but for the sake of saving $ and convenience (cos my FIL sends my husband to and from work every day - both my husband and I are very lousy drivers so we don't intend to get a car unless absolutely necessary),we are giving staying with parents a shot. My husband presnetly has a bedroom to himself and he's the last child to get married. As for me, I'm an only child. So our parents appreciate us staying with them.
You know, we even considered buying landed property, my parents one floor, my ILs one floor, husband and I one floor. It wouldn't stretch our finances at all, cos our parents can get at least $300k from selling their present flats and if husband and I can contribute another $400k, that is $1m. Can easily buy a 99 year landed with 5 bedrooms with attached toilets at that price.
But we decided not to cos that would really mean giving up our privacy forever...so selfish hor...
You know, we even considered buying landed property, my parents one floor, my ILs one floor, husband and I one floor. It wouldn't stretch our finances at all, cos our parents can get at least $300k from selling their present flats and if husband and I can contribute another $400k, that is $1m. Can easily buy a 99 year landed with 5 bedrooms with attached toilets at that price.
But we decided not to cos that would really mean giving up our privacy forever...so selfish hor...
siao, Gen 2 very nice... but unfortunately parked in sun nong nong liao... on top of this plateau at penjuru road.
G, u ask me what i base on for the 'upside'... i can tell u straight i base on nothing... put aside analysts, put aside sentiments and look at spore on a bigger scale... we are a cheap place to live in. anyway i get my info from sources tat move the economy... it's not the Whole spore, but the central areas ONLY. 1k psf will be more like the Floor, i dun think there's gonna be any bubble at all... pple wish there was a bubble becos believing in that allows them to procrastinate... mkt will move Up, not Down.
G, u ask me what i base on for the 'upside'... i can tell u straight i base on nothing... put aside analysts, put aside sentiments and look at spore on a bigger scale... we are a cheap place to live in. anyway i get my info from sources tat move the economy... it's not the Whole spore, but the central areas ONLY. 1k psf will be more like the Floor, i dun think there's gonna be any bubble at all... pple wish there was a bubble becos believing in that allows them to procrastinate... mkt will move Up, not Down.
I beg to differ, Powder.
Quite alot of people buy property for investment in Singapore. We have the rich mostly asian foreigners and wealthy Singaporeans. When the economy doesn't do well, rich foreigners feel the impact and they pull out of Singapore property, re-investing in other markets or types of assets. Wealthy Singaporeans realise rental income isn't sufficient to pay off housing loans and they would rather sell off their investment property instead of burning their fingers. Singaporeans tend to take long housing loans. 20 years is considered short. Where jobs are increasingly on contact terms (public sector is moving towards contract terms and public sector employs quite a significant proportion of young Singaporeans who may have just started out buying their first or second property), where jobs are so affected by the economy, where Singapore economy is so affected by regional economy, I see the selling of investment property at reasonable prices when times are bad. Central property may suffer less downside, but what about 99 year property in suburben districts? The prices are unlikely to hold in those places during bad times.
Quite alot of people buy property for investment in Singapore. We have the rich mostly asian foreigners and wealthy Singaporeans. When the economy doesn't do well, rich foreigners feel the impact and they pull out of Singapore property, re-investing in other markets or types of assets. Wealthy Singaporeans realise rental income isn't sufficient to pay off housing loans and they would rather sell off their investment property instead of burning their fingers. Singaporeans tend to take long housing loans. 20 years is considered short. Where jobs are increasingly on contact terms (public sector is moving towards contract terms and public sector employs quite a significant proportion of young Singaporeans who may have just started out buying their first or second property), where jobs are so affected by the economy, where Singapore economy is so affected by regional economy, I see the selling of investment property at reasonable prices when times are bad. Central property may suffer less downside, but what about 99 year property in suburben districts? The prices are unlikely to hold in those places during bad times.
hey cact,
me thought similar way to u initially, but have since realised that it's not as simplistic, and the new rich are really the new rich. of cos when talking pty, me referring only to Central.. ok to be specific - orchard/river valley/grange... not even newton. i dun discusss surburban at all, becos i'm very much a person who's only interested in the above locations... and i believe strongly that these places will actually double...
when u look at the enblocs happening, and u see the prices being paid out, there is no way the property can sell lower than the cost... and the cost has gone up... location is very specific to prices compared with the past.
if u look at individuals, it's a pretty fair assessment u made, but if u look further at the new rich, u realise that loans are not a method of purchase... in my circle, most pple have no intention of taking anything more than 3yrs to pay for the full property... think abt it. as much i know pple are taking 30yrs to pay off a 300k HDB, there are also pple taking 3yrs to pay off a 1mil pty... or pple who buy 2-3 ptys... they dun need to sell, nor rent... they just buying to keep, and more pple are buying to keep becos they can afford to. there are pockets of pple who buy as investment to make money, but these are more the minority...
just in my circle, i see purchases of over sgd50million in the past year liao... these pple are the new rich... spending 7-10mil buying a few properties is an activity becos nothing better to spend on. rental is not a necessary source of income, just an alternative if they even wanna rent out. these are Not pple who use rental to pay loans... not at all. i'm also not a believer in investing in property, it's hardly an investment if u have to take up a massive loan stretched over 20yrs...
as much as we'd like to believe we'll get reasonable prices, my belief is that it's only in areas outside of the areas i mentioned... but i agree tat 99yr property in surburban areas definitely will suffer in fact freehold too... i have always been a firm believer in Location. so if we wanna use the word 'investment', a good popular location must be mentioned in the same breath, else i dun think it's worth calling it 'an investment'. becos it is Not true investment-inspired, it is more inspired by the lack of finances.
look at the ECs... i've always found them to be overpriced for its location... selling only on the word 'condo'... a true investment person will not even look at it, it does not fulfil 'Location'. so if u wanna invest in property, it's only the popular areas... and of cos, i think east coast has potential, but at current prices i dun think they will yield better. next location will be the west coast... keep a lookout for large enblocs in those areas in the next 5yrs...
i'm very basic... i see where the property tycoons are putting their money... not whether or not sporeans can afford or are on contract jobs... becos if u look at India property and the number of poor pple, u'll realise tat the same logic doesn't apply.
me thought similar way to u initially, but have since realised that it's not as simplistic, and the new rich are really the new rich. of cos when talking pty, me referring only to Central.. ok to be specific - orchard/river valley/grange... not even newton. i dun discusss surburban at all, becos i'm very much a person who's only interested in the above locations... and i believe strongly that these places will actually double...
when u look at the enblocs happening, and u see the prices being paid out, there is no way the property can sell lower than the cost... and the cost has gone up... location is very specific to prices compared with the past.
if u look at individuals, it's a pretty fair assessment u made, but if u look further at the new rich, u realise that loans are not a method of purchase... in my circle, most pple have no intention of taking anything more than 3yrs to pay for the full property... think abt it. as much i know pple are taking 30yrs to pay off a 300k HDB, there are also pple taking 3yrs to pay off a 1mil pty... or pple who buy 2-3 ptys... they dun need to sell, nor rent... they just buying to keep, and more pple are buying to keep becos they can afford to. there are pockets of pple who buy as investment to make money, but these are more the minority...
just in my circle, i see purchases of over sgd50million in the past year liao... these pple are the new rich... spending 7-10mil buying a few properties is an activity becos nothing better to spend on. rental is not a necessary source of income, just an alternative if they even wanna rent out. these are Not pple who use rental to pay loans... not at all. i'm also not a believer in investing in property, it's hardly an investment if u have to take up a massive loan stretched over 20yrs...
as much as we'd like to believe we'll get reasonable prices, my belief is that it's only in areas outside of the areas i mentioned... but i agree tat 99yr property in surburban areas definitely will suffer in fact freehold too... i have always been a firm believer in Location. so if we wanna use the word 'investment', a good popular location must be mentioned in the same breath, else i dun think it's worth calling it 'an investment'. becos it is Not true investment-inspired, it is more inspired by the lack of finances.
look at the ECs... i've always found them to be overpriced for its location... selling only on the word 'condo'... a true investment person will not even look at it, it does not fulfil 'Location'. so if u wanna invest in property, it's only the popular areas... and of cos, i think east coast has potential, but at current prices i dun think they will yield better. next location will be the west coast... keep a lookout for large enblocs in those areas in the next 5yrs...
i'm very basic... i see where the property tycoons are putting their money... not whether or not sporeans can afford or are on contract jobs... becos if u look at India property and the number of poor pple, u'll realise tat the same logic doesn't apply.
Ok lor powder.. since you put it that way. How many pple here can afford pty in the locations you mentioned?? We talk about the mkt in terms of majority and these are not the majority la. Of cos if the mkt goes down, these highend locations won't suffer much in pricing since their demand won't drop much. The rich will continue to do what they do best... spend. I think the rest of us mere mortals are talking abt the pty prices going up or down in terms of areas excl central districts.
BTW, back to car again. Sigh. Just heard from hb that his colleague has been psychoing him to take up a 10 yr loan!! Cos he feels that's the only way one can afford a car and have less cashflow prob. My argument is we shldn't take up a long loan term for smthing that essentially depreciates every yr. Who's going to use a car for 10 yrs??? Anyway, now we're at a standstill Also hb (prolly psychoed by colleague) seems to think that COE will go up more in coming mths so he's more anxious to get the car than me. Dunno why he gets upset about going for test-rides and then not buying.. must buy for the sake of buying meh?? I'm happier not having to drive..if not for the job I won't even think of getting a car.. sorry ranting here..
BTW, back to car again. Sigh. Just heard from hb that his colleague has been psychoing him to take up a 10 yr loan!! Cos he feels that's the only way one can afford a car and have less cashflow prob. My argument is we shldn't take up a long loan term for smthing that essentially depreciates every yr. Who's going to use a car for 10 yrs??? Anyway, now we're at a standstill
Also hb (prolly psychoed by colleague) seems to think that COE will go up more in coming mths so he's more anxious to get the car than me. Dunno why he gets upset about going for test-rides and then not buying.. must buy for the sake of buying meh?? I'm happier not having to drive..if not for the job I won't even think of getting a car.. sorry ranting here..G~gal, I'm with you. I feel that car loans should be kept as short as possible. Otherwise, get something even more affordable. My bf had some issue about using a few k of my money to pay for our car cos I kept making noise about not having enough $ to spend usually. But those were just random complaints. He'd rather take a bigger loan and pay 4+% interest to the bank than using my savings that attracted only a pathetic 0.2% in the bank. A big fight took place before he was convinced that we lose out more AS A COUPLE if we loan a few thousands more and taking a 4-5yr loan for a car with 5yrs left before scrapping.
It'll be fine after a while. Sometimes when I hear new opinions I get excited or panic too. But after emotions settle and clear thinking takes over, we'll know which is the better way out. Maybe cool off for a bit and drop the loan topic for a couple of days? Otherwise show him the math lor. the diff in interest to be paid is quite substantial.
It'll be fine after a while. Sometimes when I hear new opinions I get excited or panic too. But after emotions settle and clear thinking takes over, we'll know which is the better way out. Maybe cool off for a bit and drop the loan topic for a couple of days? Otherwise show him the math lor. the diff in interest to be paid is quite substantial.