Woes with my hb family

miloice

Well-Known Member
Personally, I'm not fine with the f-word in daily usage, that's why I don't use it much out of NS context. Its used more at drivers on the road for me. lolz. We cannot stop or expect others simply because we don't like it. It is a contradiction when one says they find it unaccepable but at the same time create an account and do the same.

I too have voiced out and feedback to powder that I felt that there are other ways to emphasize without swearing. Some could be fine with it while others shut down completely the very moment they hear it. Its always a mixture. There will be those that will always react, react and react. These are the extremes. Any forum is a mixture. So, its normal to people with such reactions.

HOWEVER, if you are here to seek advise, please expect that variety. It will save you alot of frustrations and at the same time open you to a lot more viewpoints including those you probably can learn from that you would normally shut off from. How can a person this sensitive realistically be able to maintain conversations in a public forum like this? Get angry also no point.
 


watching

Member
Milo,

In the spirit of truly helping, why hamper the core message getting through with ham-fisted communication ? Ever so often, to make a point, forummers hit the person hard on the head. It is hard enough to lower the defenses of thread starters, all the punching is not going to make ts receptive. As for those who want to continue spewing vulgarities, you can go on doing it as if you are the master of the universe and put the moderator in a difficult position.

Watching :`When you condemn and criticize vehemently, the other person strives to negate that. `
Milo: `I state the facts and let them ponder abt it. Could you explain how that equates to condemn and criticize vehemently? `
- You in this context is a general you, not you Milo.

`You have admitted that what I spoke of are mostly true about the situation.`
- Mind clarifying what I admitted ? That word has a negative connotation, akin to someone who lies and feels remorseful about it, hence coming out to tell the truth. We may share common grounds on certain things but maybe not the part where I think you hack ruthlessly. I specifically added the adverb, `often` to your bam-boom tone I referred to earlier, to indicate the general image perceived (by me). The topic is about packaging on the whole, not specific to this thread alone. I am aware you didn´t go crazy here, here as in, this thread.

You know Milo, it is at times very difficult to read what you are telling. `Quantifying contribution, measuring, not reporting how well someone did`, I seriously don´t know where those are coming from. What do you mean by `it is even more important when it is a feedback ?` What were you referring to ? The first half of that paragraph sounds pretty incoherent. There´s more actually but I´ll leave it at that for now.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Watching,

"why hamper the core message getting through with ham-fisted communication ?"
There are instances that I would agree with that but not entirely. Simply because the context differs for each as addressed in earlier reply. Also, everyone read the context differently, so, even if you or anyone else might felt it wasn't necessary, another might feel compel to give the straight and strong message across. We have visited this many times, the forum will always be a variety. Can anyone realistically decide for everyone on how to approach and respond ? Or should the forum rules and regulation indicate specifically and exactly how everyone should only respond?

"- You in this context is a general you, not you Milo."
Yes, you need to really clarify this because the discussion has been about the portrait of what you think about 'my role' at this forum. With the sudden switch in context. No one would know frankly. Do you agree?

I give you the benefit of the doubt that you just isn't clear. But, another reader could see it as a twist of your words to wiggle out when challenged. This isn't the 1st that have given that benefit of the doubt for clarification.

"The topic is about packaging on the whole, not specific to this thread alone. I am aware you didn´t go crazy here, here as in, this thread."
Again, if you would to read the sequence of exchange between Denise and myself, the context is very clear.

To quote from denise
"We want to convince, not offend. I find milo's language more acceptable in this case. He can be harsh without the frequent use of profanities."
In response, i wrote
"this is the point I've been trying to put across. From the very beginning, I could already sense Carol have very strong sense of her own reasons and justifications. Which is why I asked if its only a rant.

I only went into more specifics after I saw she was willing to talk more about it..."


It was clear on what Denise was saying and myself mentioning with reference in specific to this thread.

What is not clear I believe is your comments... on 14 Sep8:18pm
"Harh Milo ?? Denise was touching on convincing, the packaging."

And your clarifications now seems to be off the context as well.

"You know Milo, it is at times very difficult to read what you are telling."

My bad on this one. This was the very point I have mentioned, I do correct and edit my post for this reason. I tend to make typo errors that are detected only during reread. In this case, i have missed this out till its beyond 20 mins.

Allow me to clarify.
The example is about Performance Appraising.

We don't just report we did well and expect the management to take claim and reward us because of that. We need to quantify the contribution in measurable manner.

This doesn't apply just to recognition and appraising, it is even more important when one is providing feedback. It has to be backed with concrete relevant reasons.

I believe the remaining from there is clear for you already.

Lastly, back to your comments, "I am aware you didn´t go crazy here..." then what about other threads? Please help give more precise references where I went crazy without acknowledging it? I'm not perfect and have over-reacted as well. Whenever I'm aware through reflection, rereading or valid feedbacks, I believe I have acknowledged them. So, if there are others, please do really point it out. That would make that picture you paint much more concrete and relevant.

The difference between a real feedback we can pick up from vs just an impression is precisely facts, logic and not emotions. And this is also the very difference between pointless irrationale hate posts and nasty accusations. These are without base.
 

babystorm

Member
Seriously, please stop being so anal about a fooking swear word. WTF. That's the way it's supposed to be! Jeez. What's the biggie? Just move on already.

Doll, imo the F word wasn't appropriate in that context but it's nothing to be ashamed of either. Shrugs.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
I meant : And this is also the very difference WITH pointless irrationale hate posts and nasty accusations. These are without base.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
"- Mind clarifying what I admitted ? That word has a negative connotation, akin to someone who lies and feels remorseful about it, hence coming out to tell the truth."

I didn't have the suggestion about lies and remorse. Definitely, not in the current context we are discussing.

Anyway, on rereading, I have misquoted you. So, I take that back acknowledging that the statement is without grounds.

Rather, I ask of you to point out when the very questions I asked were not correct of the situation. Of all the situations where the TS shuts down, which of them is incorrect? It is because of the tone or because the truth doesn't sit well? These very questions are intended for the individual to be reminded what's more important than the current considerations they mentioned thus far.

I believe it will not be difficult for you to bring forth references to bam-boom tone since it is deem by you as 'often'. I await your answer on this.
 

simpleman

Active Member
I think the language we use to advise or how it was dished out - we should all learn to accept.

If a TS cannot accept the way responses are being made - then at the outset it may not be wise to post here to ask for advices. This is an open-forum - anyone can post. There are troublemakers, there are those who place emphasis on certain words, there are those who will sayang and those who will be critical and perhaps even scarcastic. So do we set a rule up front? Unfortunately not here.. of course if it is extremely vulgarities or personal attack - it can be brought up to the moderator and the posts can be removed.

But we are not talking about that sort of posts. We are talking about certain words or posts peppered with emphasis on certain phrases. I think it is reasonable to assume that one could be open-minded enough to be receptive. If one feels a line has been crossed, we can directly ask the person who had posted that. If one is of a closed-mind and cannot take a f... word, then I think it is not really appropriate to post here.

As to the packing of the message to be receptive to the TS - sorry, I don't think we need to do that. We are not counsellors. We are here to offer our viewpoints. And mostly, in many instances, people need to be "slapped" to be woken-up and hence the tone of our advices may not be that nice - it is intentional. There are others who will sayang - I won't say it is useless but TS will need to read through all the responses - and see what is useful. There is no point in being hurt or thinking the advices are personal attacks. They are not. We are strangers here. What do we gain by attacking TS? We are making a living elsewhere - and some of us, are here to provide our viewpoints in our spare time. We also don't want to get into unnecessary debate about what is right or wrong. We are just offering a perspective - it may be a different perspective from what the TS is seeing - that is all. Don't have to take it too personal. If don't agree then just filter them away.
 

clark

New Member
what position are u to 'slap' anybody.

Dun give yrself too much credit for doing something so damn uncultured.

SM, please shut the hell up.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
"As to the packing of the message to be receptive to the TS - sorry, I don't think we need to do that"

It isn't a need or mandatory requirement. Packaging is merely about easing the defenses and tailoring it to the level where its probably more acceptable and understandable by the TS. However, the focus on packaging is off tangent here. It has became a responsibility for anyone offering comments to ensure the TS can take it. Why else would the entire emphasis be on TONE and nothing about the inability of the TS to listen anything apart from smoothing tones. I don't see how that's a reasonable expectation. To anyone out there, DO YOU? If yes, why? Please elaborate.

If no, then why argue on something that you yourself don't even see as a reasonable expectation?
 

babystorm

Member
Ai pi ai qi ai dua liab ni. Go find a professional counsellor lah! This is a FREE forum and we are all entitled to post whatever we think. DUH.
 

jn1234

New Member
This forum has really deteriorated in standards. Those who like the profanities die die want to win. Can't win so resort to remarks such as Yiping's "shit stirrer", Junkie's childish bickering with Wendy, Milo's "troublemakers" and now worse, Miyako's "Ai pi ai qi ai dua liab ni". So all those who disagree with all of you are shit stirrer and troublemakers? So I am right, you all just want people to agree with you and will spare no effort in shooting and condemning and humuliating those who disagree with you. So what is the purpose of discussion that people like Milo claimed? Is there discussion or forced agreement? If not agreed, will be condemned? That is the level of the intelligence of this lot of people and I wonder what is the quality of your so-called advice.

To think this Miyako is female is a disgrace. To sprout such vulgarities is the waste of years of education she has.

This Opal is worse. She likes people "asking me to go fly kite and to just jump down" so as to wake her up. Isn't there a milder approach than such drastic words? Who is to blame if someone really jump down?

Yes, this is a free forum, you are entitled to post whatever you think or like. But remember, TS or others don't come in to be humiliated. Since you claim can post whatever you like, ok then I post whatever I like. You are simply a lot of uncivilised and uncultured people.

Ok in what Junkie's language 给你赢啦, you all like profanities and vulgarities ok lor, let you win.
 

jn1234

New Member
Miyako
Mind you, even professional counsellors don't insist those seeking counselling DIE DIE MUST LISTEN TO THEM. But the people here INSIST DIE DIE MUST LISTEN TO THEM, IF DISAGREE -> CONDEMN.

I wonder how many people you all have chased away from discussion using this approach and profanities. Bp and Carol are 2 of them who seem to be chased away by you guys.
 

opalstar

New Member
I am sorry , Jenny... I must have missed your advice to TS... I can't seems to find any..

What is it exactly you have proposed the TS to do about her situation?

I suggest strongly you refrain from commenting on my situation and what I like or dislike.. as you have no idea what I went through. Let's just say that milder advice doesn't work on stubborn people and I did recieve there as well

If you are an unbiased person, I do wonder why you have not address qqyou's profanities as surely, they are much more offensive than the singular "f" word.. Or you yourself is in the same trap you accused others of...

Namely, attacking only people who disagree with you.. If you have a passing familarity with Chinese , I be happy to provide a translation
 

opalstar

New Member
Lastly, Jenny, I have a question for you...

Following your logic, If even professional counsellors does not insist those SEEKING. Counsel to DIE DIE MUST LISTEN TO THEM....why do you persist in ramming your preaching to forummers here who are not interested your advice and why are you yourself condemn people who disagree with you?

Are you trying to do what professional counsellors can't insist people to do? Much less , these forummers did not even seek ur advise relating to topics..
 

denise80

Active Member
"This is a FREE forum and we are all entitled to post whatever we think. DUH."

Miyaki, you just said it. It's a free forum and we are all entitled to post whatever we think. So I believe we also have the right to express our negative views on the use of profanities. It's just that we do not have the right to stop you all from using it. So far, we've been sharing our opinions just like you shared yours on how you could accept profanities.

Anyway, some of you, I feel, also need to remove the mental models of those (like me) who frown on the use of profanities here. We might have given you the picture that we are pristine or cultured people who would never utter a word of vulgarity. Let me share that that's absolutely nonsense. I curse and swear too - but only when extremely crossed and that I know the person well. In a public forum, are we becoming more daring in our posts simply because we do not know each other in real life and that's y to many, it makes it okay to use profanities? I don't know. If one is using it frequently not as what the profanities truly intend (that is to hurt), then why use it in the first place? It doesn't add meaning or value to your well-intended message. I can't emphasise enough that we can still wake a person up without using profanities. I believe those who have read my posts before will realise that I can be harsh too with my comments or views. Like you, I feel that this approach is better than sugar coating our message at times. Or..at times, I'm feeling really crossed by a post. However, I don't see the need or feel the impulse to use profanities at all. Just because your friends or ppl within your social context could accept it doesn't make it acceptable to others. Precisely we treasure your inputs, that's why we (okay, maybe I) wished you didn't have to use profanities to bring your points across because many a time, it had a reverse impact (the negative one) on the TS. Instead of waking up that person, you might goad the person further into thinking that he/she is right and need not change or do anything to improve a situation.

There are many possibilities here and I think there's never going to be an end on this issue. Some will support, some will not regarding the use of profanities here. In that case, when a person here expresses displeasure, then I believe it's only right for the other to accept it and not continue to justify how and why the use of profanities is okay. If the person already feels hurt by those words, then just make peace. It's not that difficult. It takes more courage to make peace or apologise I think which blueprincess did graciously. I hope you all would still remember about that.
 

jn1234

New Member
Sorry I don't really advise since some people deemed I am not as experienced as them to advise. I am basically a silent reader hoping to learn from some of the forummers.

However I noticed some forummers always like to put people down. If you have read thru some of their posts, the TS who are supposed to seek advice from this forum ended up feeling more depressed. They are already depressed with their problems but by reading these "advices" peppered with sarcasm and profanities, they feel more down.

I actually don't want to voice out until I notice it happens frequently. It is not only profanity that they sprout but also the way they talk. They like to talk in such a "I know it all", "I am experienced, you are not, so you MUST listen to me" attitude then if TS don't listen, they will press more and shoot at TS more. What I just feel is TS is only seeking an advice in a forum. There will be different schools of thoughts and opinions, why can't just present in a nicer way to TS and let TS decide his/her path. Why must those who advise insist and humiliate people if they don't concur with them?

qqyou's posts? I think she is another 有正义感的人 trying to voice her displeasure and disgust at these forummers. I feel she is more like è§äººè¯´äººè¯ï¼Œè§é¬¼è¯´é¬¼è¯ã€‚Since there are so many 鬼 here, so she just 说鬼è¯, if not will really let these people shoot left and right. If you read thru the past few days' exchanges, it is like I talk also get attacked, don't talk, also get attacked, someone will ask me to scold this scold that on their behalf and then continue their attack on me. Just because I am not in agreement with them.

Ok, the forumers did not seek my advice relating to the topics. But isn't this a forum where there is freedowm of speech? When they talk something out the topic of TS' issue is ok to them, but when I comment on the use of language, they cannot stand and start condemning. I actually try to appear lesser in the forum already.

I just wonder what the world is going to become if everyone from teachers, consellors, politicans, sales and frontline people, etc talk like these forummers. That NTU student, sigh....
 

jn1234

New Member
Sorry if I have commented on your situation. I just feel strong words should not be used in case some unwanted things happened. Cos' stressed persons can't really think rationally.

Comment/ advice if put in a nicer way will be well-received than comment/advice sprouted with sarcasm and profanities. A lot of misery happen because of the wrong choice of words. I think it is better not to 把人逼上悬崖。
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Denise, very well said.

Its a sharp contrast with Jenny.

Dear Jenny is completely blind to her behavior and contradictions. The extreme ignorance and self righteousness is a terrible mix frankly. "有正义感的人" Seriously, i don't know what to say except common sense in this context doesn't exist. The 'silent reader' that 'tries' to appear lesser in this forum. That's a really ironic joke for the weekend.
 

watching

Member
Tell anybody that he/she is stupid, doing it all wrong, you may destroy every incentive to try to improve. Use ham-fisted communication, not letting the other person save face, you will arouse resentment. Do the opposite, letting the other person know you have faith she/he can change with the right tools, explaining without being supercilious, giving the person a fine reputation live up to, he/she will strive to his best.

So many have put up a fight. Nobody has a license to dictate how anybody should write, that is a given, but forums do have such a thing as netiquette, that is to talk to other forummers the way you would face to face. Because the exchanges are online, there is anonymity. Internet changes physical-meeting to something less personal. In real life, most of us would never make obscene gestures and act like savages. But exchanges in cyberspace seem to make it acceptable to be bold. I too, am guilty in making obscene, sexual speeches when I fool around at Sg Brides.
 

watching

Member
Milo,

Your role was written in a different light, different day, after I mentioned common sense that is rammed down your throat. I didn´t want to make it personal with you (Milo) as an example but you indirectly asked me to substantiate, calling it an allegation. The other `you` was a general-you if you carefully discern the whole paragraph. You seem to understand `any hot headed person` is written in a third party form in the same paragraph but you couldn´t decipher the second you is not you-Milo, which was a follow up to vehement criticism ? In the same light as the possibility of my attempt to wiggle out of this, you could be deemed as being sensitive to injury, taking things personally.

Prior to Denise´s posting, some forummers brought vulgarities from other threads to attention (from past duels). Denise cited the example of not being able to stand profanities from some people some time ago, this led to her next post on convincing and not offending. The subject is not specific to this thread alone. I don´t find what you wrote in response to Denise congruous.
1.The point you´ve been trying to put across is convincing, not offending ? You´ve been trying and trying to no avail until someone comes along and articulates it well enough ? What was magnifying in your participance at this thread, is your talk about the position of the baby girl, the MIL´s auntie´s traits and your talk to Jenny prior to responding Denise´s post.
2. The follow up, Carol´s justifications which led you to ask if it´s a rant, what has that got to do with convincing ?

Again, I don´t know where `Performance Appraising` is coming from. I´m sorry to say it sounds like it was pulled out of a book/article to make you look well read, inducing me to queasiness. With the guidelines of Performance Appraising, this forum is supposed to be some sort of work place where we report to the moderator or something for evaluation by quantifying ? So far-off. With the closing, `I believe the remaining from there is clear for you already`, is that suppose to end all uncertainties about the incongruence pertaining this topic ?

Milo, you edit your posts not just by correcting typos, you add whole new paragraphs in the same posts. You navigate to a whole new direction, abusing the possibility of editing. Ie, the part of taking back `admitting` and directing a question at me. Under the thin veneer of a different approach (a cultured one this time with appreciate this, thank you that, allow me to clarify), it´s after all still the same Milo. You asked to cite examples of the bam-boom. I remember you foster the idea that being a short fuse person yourself, you´d have an amazing recovery time, I´m dumdfolded by how the two points are connected. Having a short fuse to you equals not bearing grudges and you bring that to practice by going after Scope rigorously even if he has left the scene (okay he is back now, go get him if you like), remarking on May Ong negatively time and again even if she has ceased to comment. Being paranoid about this `Ern` guy thinking he was someone else? You incessantly go after those you have a dissonance with. I´d think someone who has written 12 K posts has had the practice to comment coherently. I am ending this in your own words, `be honest` if you did that crazy bam-boom.
 

jn1234

New Member
Milo, you too are guilty of trying to get alliances. Yet you accused me numerous time. Time for you to look into mirror yourself. Isn't this your favourable quote as well?
 

jn1234

New Member
watching, I guess so. 他七年é’春在这里,他那èˆå¾—他的战å‹ï¼Œè·Ÿä»–åŒä¸€é˜µçº¿çš„人? Probably cursing behind the computer now.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Hi watching,

it wasn't a criticism, rather a reminder that I am willing to give that benefit of the doubt for clarifications.

It has a lot to do with convincing, as you saw clearly Carol was receptive to the feedback and suggestions on how to overcome it. Can you dispute that?

About the analogy, well, you did not see the relevance, but I did. When providing the feedback, it is even more important to substantiate it. Else, it would be without head or tail. Which has been the case here as well. That's why I'm keep asking you to give the the references. Your points about guidelines of PA is totally uncalled for. We all know analogies are not to be taken literally in this sense.

Now, on the editing posts, we touched on this before haven't we? Why the need to dig and repeat? Posting in this forum will only provide you with a text of 10 lines. Its really difficult to read the post entirely by scrolling up and down. I know I have 20 mins to review and edit if necessary and I have always make use of this feature to allow me to review the post this manner. It isn't as if you didn't understand my writing habits and seeing it for the 1st time. You have questioned and I explained that so clearly to you. You cannot possibly know what I have not written or failed to explain without me clarifying it. It is something consistent and which I have been done for many years. I will reread and edit, rephase and add on statements that I saw wasn't correctly or clearly elaborated. What has been been abused here?? And in this case, again, I had missed on on that paragraph which was clearly confusing and not clear. Did I denial it? No, I acknowledged it and appeal to clarify. In fact, in all cases that I'm aware of, when my others have responded to my unedited post, I would mention to the person that I had added / edit the comment with more clarifications.

Honestly, I was truly shocked with May's outburst and sudden change. The twist was as if it was suddenly another person. There wasn't a consistency with the openness she had offer through the on-going communication and discussions prior to her sudden outburst.

For scope, the feedback was already given many various people and I accepted and reflected upon that as well.

Let me remind you of what I asked
"Please help give more precise references where I went crazy without acknowledging it? I'm not perfect and have over-reacted as well. Whenever I'm aware through reflection, rereading or valid feedbacks, I believe I have acknowledged them"

Anyway, are you telling me 2 incidents you have to dig up from so far equates to "often". Come on. I have been honest here. I have written 12k posts with that habit of using the edit feature to review my post. Now, please be honest with me as well. Why repeat? How often is often here?
 

opalstar

New Member
Denise, I just read your last post and just like to express that I respect your view on this particular topic and while I may not agree 100% with it, I do see your stand from a logical perspective...

Just a suggestion that in future, If anyone who is RECEIVING the advise feels uncomfortable with the language/use of profanities used on people posting on her thread...could just voice out nicely in the way Denise had.. I am sure, Forummers will respect the TS's wishes in this aspect. On the other hand, if TS have no comments in that aspect.. other posters shouldn't be just making a fuss about that either as this whole discussion only served to distract from the issue at hand..

Sometimes, all one got to do is to ask..
 

watching

Member
Milo,

watching : When you condemn and criticize vehemently, the other person strives to negate that. A sure way of arousing resentment, any hot headed person can shoot.

watching : You seem to understand `any hot headed person` is written in a third party form in the same paragraph but you couldn´t decipher the second you is not you-Milo, which was a follow up to vehement criticism ?

Milo: it wasn't a criticism, rather a reminder that I am willing to give that benefit of the doubt for clarifications.

- now, we are at different wave lengths again. "A sure way of arousing resentment, any hot headed person can shoot" is a follow up to "When you condemn and criticize vehemently, the other person strives to negate that."
- criticism/criticize ! I was talking about the word in that sentence, I did not see you criticizing me !
-I regret that I won´t always be able to read what you write the way you intend them to be read or you have a set of different reading and writing skills.

It would be fair if you do new posts when you add new paragraphs to prevent misconstrued messages.

The references which you asked for, if I provide, you call it `digging` and `repeating` ? I have given you 3 examples but it´s never going to be enough because you won´t stop.

Take care !
 

jn1234

New Member
Milo
I remember your good friend, powder, keep accusing me of "take things out of context to twist things around... "

Looks like you too are guilty of this. Also you got reading problems? Didn't I say "I am basically a silent reader hoping to learn from some of the forummers. " and "I actually don't want to voice out until I notice it happens frequently."

I wonder why your good friend, powder, only condemn me but didn't condemn you at committing the same act of "take things out of context to twist things around... ". Oh, good friend so that's why. Didn't your the other good friend, junkie, also keep saying è¦é—ª but still kept bickering with Wendy? Why you don't condemn her 说一套,åšä¸€å¥—but just keep condemning me relently?

You are getting more "mang zhang" with me already? Loss of words already only know how to say "troublemaker" and "Dear Jenny is completely blind to her behavior and contradictions. The extreme ignorance and self righteousness is a terrible mix frankly. "有正义感的人" Seriously, i don't know what to say except common sense in this context doesn't exist. The 'silent reader' that 'tries' to appear lesser in this forum. That's a really ironic joke for the weekend."

Haha, your these words will not chase this originally silent reader (now no longer silent reader) away. I said I try to appear lesser did not say don't appear anymore. And you better not chase me away, else no one to let you scold. You will be bored, cos those TS depressed by you and your gang are being chased away by you all already. Since TS, Carol, has long left (being chased by you gang), so there is nothing for you to "advise" already, why are you still in this thread? Can't you see this thread is the hottest thread these few days? Without this thread without me driving you nuts, you don't know what to do when no one for you to scold. So go ahead with your scolding, this is your style, I fully understand. å¯æ˜¯ä½ æ•¬æˆ‘一尺,我会回你一仗。I said many times, you talk to me nicely, I will also talk nicely to you. If you talk like a mad dog, I too can talk like a mad dog (except minus profanity). 您37快步人中年了,别给我气å身å­ï¼Œé™ªäº†å¤«äººåˆæŠ˜å…µã€‚

watching
"Just a suggestion that in future, If anyone who is RECEIVING the advise feels uncomfortable with the language/use of profanities used on people posting on her thread...could just voice out nicely in the way Denise had.. I am sure, Forummers will respect the TS's wishes in this aspect. On the other hand, if TS have no comments in that aspect.. other posters shouldn't be just making a fuss about that either as this whole discussion only served to distract from the issue at hand.. "

Agree but didn't you see the TS of this thread was so pressurized that she even asked the thread to be closed so as not to continued to be bombarded? She has even thanked the forummers for advices but what did powder, Milo and others do to her? Continued relentlessly until she said she feels more depressed after reading the advices?
 

babystorm

Member
Denise, it's Miyako lah.

Your post makes sense. Just feel that there is no need to dramatize stuff. Some people think they are filming in a drama show.

I just have to post that one dialect sentence and receive such a big reaction and insults. I didn't even have to direct at anyone in particular. If you know what I mean.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
watching,

I was referring to this "In the same light as the possibility of my attempt to wiggle out of this, you could be deemed as being sensitive to injury, taking things personally."

I am clarifying that I wasn't being sensitive, rather, pointing out that I'm willing to offer you that benefit of the doubt. Anyway, you are right, you didn’t mention it was a criticism.

Different wavelength, well, its normal. That's why we need to discuss and clarify.

How to dig and repeat if its something that wasn't highlighted or discussed and explained before? Right?

Seriously, as in other situations where there is a need for me relook, please help to highlight. I seek to understand to process it. This is the purpose I’m seeking with this discussion with you.

You specifically mention often hence I am expecting to hear you give me a list of references that clearly indicate that. Back to the same question how often is often? You bring 2 references that were of many months ago to bring up the point its on its frequency, something is not very coherent with that right?

to repeat
"Please help give more precise references where I went crazy without acknowledging it? I'm not perfect and have over-reacted as well. Whenever I'm aware through reflection, rereading or valid feedbacks, I believe I have acknowledged them"

Is it clear for you on the request? It is not to dig up old discussions we had already done months back. But as indicated… specific cases when I went ‘crazy’ without realizing and acknowledging them.

and
"Rather, I ask of you to point out when the very questions I asked were not correct of the situation. Of all the situations where the TS shuts down, which of them is incorrect? It is because of the tone or because the truth doesn't sit well? These very questions are intended for the individual to be reminded what's more important than the current considerations they mentioned thus far.
I believe it will not be difficult for you to bring forth references to bam-boom tone since it is deem by you as 'often'. I await your answer on this."


This is the request for instances that the questions asked to the TS are not correct of the situation.


"It would be fair if you do new posts when you add new paragraphs to prevent misconstrued messages."

Point taken, but seriously, I'm using the feature to preview what I wrote entirely instead of small segments of few lines. I don't know if anyone else is having that same difficulty with that small textbox. I always reread as much as possible when time permits. Since young, I have a problem with writing, saying or typing something different from my thoughts. Hence, the frequent mistakes. And yes, despite writing emails daily, 12k post in this forum, it doesn't stop at all. In writing, I minimize that by rereading. One way is I probably have to write the entire post 1st in a text editor to reread before sending. I might not have the time to do that everytime, but okie, probably, something I can try to make a new habit.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Jenny, you have repeatedly mentioned that you wanted to be the silent reader but kept coming back with reasons to continue contradict that 'silence'. I'm sorry but you failed to trig any anger in me, more my humor instead frankly. Your contradictions are so amazingly obvious and yet you can continue to remain blind to it throughout.

In the same way, you remained blind to how I have engage in many discussions and disagreements with the very people you lumped me with. It includes this very thread.
 

jn1234

New Member
Milo
U are really poor reader, still can't read why I am still here and u only continue barking non stop. Same as what u did to watching. Harping non stop.
I am equally curious since TS Carol has long left her thread, so nothing for u to "advise" anymore, why are u still here?
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Hi Watching,

Back on this comment
“Denise cited the example of not being able to stand profanities from some people some time ago, this led to her next post on convincing and not offendingâ€

What you have not mentioned however was that I too spoke about that in other threads as well. So, I’m not sure if you were aware of the feedback that I gave Powder. I mentioned that he is more than capable to use other words to bring forth the same message without the use of profanities.

“1.The point you´ve been trying to put across is convincing, not offending ?â€
What do you mean offending?
Anyway, most people are highlighting to Carol that her expectations were wrong to begin with. The disagreement was mainly how Carol would be convinced by Powder’s stand about the MIL. I empathized and lead her to realize the situation she is in today are attributed to various factors. It includes unrealistic expectations on her part and her mil auntie mentality and preferences for boys.

When Jenny came in and tried to rub it on Powder, again, I used the light approach to advise her to let go. But she just have to do it. Till now, its something she doesn’t even be honest enough to acknowledge. In the previous thread that she has gone on wild accusations, I took pulled her back into discussion. It was all done with deliberate careful effort to save face for her. I felt she as taken all these for granted and hence I see pointless to continue using the soft approach with her. She just doesn’t get it.

Why I’m bringing all these up is because I agree to some extend about your comments today at 8:11 pm. However, it is not always applicable. Some people take that gesture for granted. Some are too self righteous to see it. Sometimes, as Opal and several others have shared, there is an absolutely need for the strong hash message. That call is never so straight forward, we don’t respond the same manner regardless. It is only good to serve as a reminder when interacting with others.

I particularly like one thing powder mentioned about the 3 stage of Realization : 1) u Know, 2) u Understand, 3) u Realize.

It is indeed difficult to help influence a person to reach realization stage. It is all dynamic, we are constantly making that adjustment to get the right balance.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Hi Jenny, I'm not just here, I have been in many threads all the long. It is just that REPEATEDLY said you wanted to be a silent reader. Please for once, do as you really claim.
happy.gif


It was a discussion between Watching and me its really not difficult to follow. So, don't ask questions that show your unwillingness to read or talk coherently.
 

opalstar

New Member
"watching
"Just a suggestion that in future, If anyone who is RECEIVING the advise feels uncomfortable with the language/use of profanities used on people posting on her thread...could just voice out nicely in the way Denise had.. I am sure, Forummers will respect the TS's wishes in this aspect. On the other hand, if TS have no comments in that aspect.. other posters shouldn't be just making a fuss about that either as this whole discussion only served to distract from the issue at hand.. "

@jenny...Well actually that is my comments not watching. The context is relating to profanity/use of language .

I don't think anyone is bombarding her specifically.. Is more on the postings relating to language use.. IMO, you might have felt more pressurized compared to TS..

IMO, some of your messages here are harsher , uncalled for and frankly meaner messages than any message I have seen from powder , with or without the f word

..i suggest you re-read your postings and compared with Denise. Both of you have taken the same stand but such different way of communicating .. It might assist you in bringing your points to others..
 

jn1234

New Member
Opal
他们敬我一尺,我敬他们一仗。

Cos even when I stop when I do not reply their name calling, they continue bombarding relentlessly. So I am giving back to them the medicines they gave to me and others attacked by them.
 

jn1234

New Member
Didn't I quote many instances they bombarded me on I have done which something which also other forummers also behaved so? Why double standard?
 

jn1234

New Member
Milo
So I be silent reader just 眼ççlet u guys scold? Can u do so yourself? U too retaliated fiercely back at me, didn't u? I did try to keep quiet for a while but did the attack stop?

Ok. I will stop if this topic is closed. We can agree to disagree but I assure u there will still be some jumping out to attack me and call names. Ok I can't demand this thread to be closed and I can't stop people continuing discussing on this topic, but surely people can stop the bombardment and name calling at me. I think this is not over demanding? But do u see these bombardment and name calling stop?
 

jn1234

New Member
Milo
If u sense it right, I have to self defend. I hate people to bully me and also bully others. No one is borne to be scolded by others. U still didn't get my message. I called it 正义感 which u disagreed. Which is why I react strongly when someone or myself is being bullied. Especially how desperate and depressed by many TS stressed by u guys.
 

jn1234

New Member
Opal and watching
Sorry to get mixed up. Scroll up scroll down with iPhone is really not easy.

Sorry, I too will apologize if I am at fault.

Have a good night!
 

jn1234

New Member
I mentioned many times I don't claim to be experienced like u guys, so most of the time before all these bickering, I was really just a silent reader, i don't really advised. Only after I see more people bombarded by some of u guys when advising. So really, I really mean it, 出于正义感 I voiced out about the non stop profanity, sarcasm, scolding by u guys.

I had never disputed any of powder's advice. I only voiced out the language use. But he saw it differently as I am unable to refute on his advice, so I attacked on his profanity. Did u guys really read what I have written? No. U all just go non stop bombardment and name calling. So how to be able to be silent when these go non stop?

He wanted me to apologize to me. Why must I apologize? Each has his / her own view. Just because I don't agree with him, I need to apologize to him?

What about his assumption that I can't refute his advice so I attacked his use of profanity? He assumed this but did I ask him to apologize?



I never once denied powder's advice is wrong but just because I voiced out about the use of language, he went non stop and since I can't refute his advice, that's why I attacked on his profanity. U guys really don't read carefully.
 

jn1234

New Member
iPhone problem again. One of the above sentence should read "He want me to apologize to him."

Enough said. I really also wish to continue being silent reader but do I see the bombardment and name calling stop? I can be diplomatic if u are diplomatic but how to be diplomatic when there are so many people refuse to stop attacking? I will go off when bombardment and name calling stop.

Good night and have a nice weekend!


Good night and have a nice weekend.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
did u come into this thread to self defend? That's a flat lie. You came in this thread with a clear motive other than self defend. Something I suggested you to let go of from the very start.

I suggest you to go and reread this thread and the initial thread that you got all worked up. Before being so self righteous again. You should be scolding yourself for you have been guilty for most of the very things you so self righteously try to accuse others of. It is this very behavior that gave you all the disagreement. You are blind to your behavior.

It took you this long to finally admit to some faults of yours. Think about it. Who is the person that is here with the die die need to win mentality? All these, I have been trying to tell you. I used various approaches with you, from direct, to soft reminders to save face, bringing you back to decisions. You were not realizing any of these. One moment you would say I'm not like powder, I make sense, then the next, you said I'm powder the sense and took sides with him.

If you are willing take steps back. Seriously, reflect on it more. Reread everything. No point writing those really childish things to attempt to irritate. It doesn't work, its not that I didn't read well, I simply omit it the moment I see them. The more you write such things, the less weigh your words will carry. If you honestly think, doesn't it make sense?
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
I meant
"you said I'm powder the second"
and
"bringing you back to discussions"

to add, I was clearly in the midst of having a long disagreement discussion with Powder during the alleged siding with powder. I was pointing out about your motive to get back at him. You went on to accuse me of being afraid to disagree with him. Dear silent reader, you have completely omitted my feedback to Powder earlier. The feedback was already given prior to this thread. These are some of the very contradictions that you ignored when passing all those accusations.

Why do you repeat that you are not experienced? It has nothing to do with experience but the awareness of your own behavior. When you keep contradicting yourself, can you excuse it as inexperience? Ask yourself. The 正义感 seems misplaced.
 

jn1234

New Member
See? I know it. Even if I want to make peace, u all will relentlessly go on attacking. How to expect a silent reader then?
I feel for those under attack just like why I voiced out for En Xuan's daughter when she relentlessly tried to separate the little girl from her father to the extend of abandoning her. If u don't believe it, nothing I can do. Thus also don't expect a silent reader then since u continue non stop.

FYI till now I didn't admit my fault.
 

watching

Member
Milo, I´m sorry to have caused a stir.

Yes, you empathized with Carol and provided different angles.

I have given references, not threads but in description. Of course you can ask for hard core proof but I am too lazy to look them up. I didn´t see you coming out acknowledging in those threads it wasn´t `cool` what you did. Perhaps `crazy`and `often` are too strong, I should have been more generous in my wording.

Again, there are misconstrued messages but I do not wish to get down to the nitty gritty stuff. This is my last comment at this thread.

Have a nice weekend !
 

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