Carol, its more than just the use of english language alone lah.... the usage of "ME", "I" throughout the conversation reveals self centeredness. i.e. your awareness and focus arre pretty much on your interest only.
when i was expecting my no. 1, my mom told me that she could not offer to take care of my baby as she already has her hands full taking care of my nephew. like you, i went straight back to work after maternity so i chose to send my daughter to childcare. when my no. 2 arrived, it was a practical choice to send her to the same childcare as the eldest.
my mom does babysit on occasions but it's up to decide if ok or not. she comes and stay over some weekends but her foremost thought is of the people at home, mostly of my 22 year old brother. i mean he's 22 but he's still my mother's baby lor .. sometimes it annoys me but then again, like what milo says, our parents don't owe it to us to care for our kids.
Still back to the same old issue I had. Most TS starting a thread are already down due to the problems they have, so start threads for advice. Can advise or discuss, but surely don't need harsh and sarcastic remarks.
"If they cannot, then they wouldn't stay around for long before they cannot take it!" Milo, you are referring to me as one of them? I am still around leh, just that I don't comment on all topics if I do not have any input. Rather than being accused by someone so "learned" and "experienced" that I lack the experience to advise.
Hi Carol, it depends on d parent's nature. If d parent is one who has some form of deep seated hatred which was caused by his/he own kid n tis issue was nt dealt with, then d parent may never forgive d kid. Or if d parent is one who bears grudges or who does not truly love his/her own kid, then d parent mighy never forgive d kid.
It all depends on d bond n love. I do not believe tt all parents love their kids n i do not believe tt all parents will forgive their kids. Cuz, if tis was d case u wun hav read abt parents abusing their kids or fighting w their kids in court over family issues.
my point is that with the 1st grandchild - already kena burnt and hurt. why bother with the 2nd one and be exposed to a fullscale blackmail?
my main target here is TS expectations. which i can see - most of u guys have similar expectations of grandparents... If that is how u see it, i think that's fair...
SO, with that in mind - i am showing the other angle as a grandparent. particularly from my own feel, which i dun think i'll ever allow myself to be entrapped into spending my remaining years taking care of my children's children BY DEFAULT and EXPECTATION.
Powder's word might be harsh, but you can't deny he provide a whole new perspective from the MIL point of view. That's the reason why I came to the forum, to hear different kind of views instead of just trapping in my small bubble thinking all my "ideals" are right.
I used to be offended with people using the "F" word until I met this funny, cranky old man in my company, 9 out of 10 sentences there's the "F" word in them. It's just another adjective to him.
I have said before there are 3 stages before u hit the final stage of Realisation. 1) u Know, 2) u Understand, 3) u Realilse. i rate the current stage as somewhere between 1) and 2).....that is my opinion and assessment of cos...
powder, yes, i do understand you were coming from mil pov. To me, the fear for entrapment doesn't superceed one's care for their family bond. When it does, it is a reflection on the pettiness and the need to punish. I empathize with the mil but disagree with her actions.
i wonder if u girls ever read books and Derive feelings from it... feelings from deep within. i wonder if u have ever read a self-help book that wakes up your senses, pulls your heart and motivate the person in u.
u have your way of advising - the way u read '3 little pigs' to children. just a story which u read for the sake of it.
for me i scare the shit out of the children when i do the wolf part... and i show absolute fear when i read the pig part. i tell the story differently and i give u a rich vein of experience as 1st hand as i can.
u want every story to be feel-good, 3rd-party reading... which to me - doesn't change any thing except to get a few idiots like yourself - Nod in approval only.
the fact that the both of u are so affected by me tells u one thing - i MAKE IMPACT. i put in Alot of effort into my posts, i run thru feelings and emotions of the parties involved as if i were the person himself/herself.
if u want to fault me and make a mockery of me for that, it only shows how shallow u guys are. and when u run into REAL problems and troubles... u should try advising yourself. it's useless by the way...
the 2 of u are here to make frens, feel good abt yourself and your entire purpose revolves around YOU - Felling good abt yourselves.
i have not felt, for one moment, that the 2 of u are actually bothered to Help. u're just telling a story and hoping the kids will sleep after u read the story. u're more keen to tell pple u read stories to your children, than to actually read the story to your children.
the 2 of u are as shallow as can be. u betray yourselves by doing popular things to win popularity.
i do what i know is right. so pls stop following me. and do report me to the moderator to ban my account.
i can tell u straight - the forum has more to lose than me. u would have deprived the pple of someone who can actually help them Over their problems... than to just make them feel good abt themselves.
u think the forum will be a better place without my perspective? think again. there are thousands like u... and Fact Is - the 2 of u can't even get your lives right... yet u dare criticise me on my use of vulgarities.
u should not come here and try to fault me for the sake of it. it only bounces off to show how freakin shallow u guys are. and your only agenda is not to help, but to be focal on me, based on the past.
that's how much help u actually wanna give the TS...
oh pls... u can get the whole forum to be against me. to be gang gang with u... this is like going back to secondary school and needing to gang up against pple.
which part of life are u guys at? u can't even stand on your own til this day?
But dun wan to invest feeling for her own granddaughter also equally sad le....Anyway, only the MIL know what she doing and want...
Can I ask u something? Did u try to make atonement? How hard did u try? Or u just stop visiting her after u know she still hate ur guts for scolding her? If u really feel bad and guilty towards ur hb and gal, what do u intend to do to 'repair' the r/s with ur MIL?
that is Your expectation of the MIL as a grandparent.
i'm not at that stage of life yet, but when i imagine myself in my 50s or 60s and have 15-20yrs to go... i asked myself how much time i'd like to invest in my grandchildren GIVEN that once i start, i would be Expected to avail myself like Everytime i'm needed... i think i'd rather not. but i will not cease the ones i've grown and bonded with, of cos.
yes diana it's sad... but from whose point of view are u looking at? u're looking at it as the parent of the little girl.
i'm looking at it as a grandparent whose DIL has given me sh!t and made me feel so darn unappreciated after i helped her thru the initial periods. i'm looking as a grandparent who was made to feel guilty abt looking after her own children, instead of grandchildren.
children IS our choice, and we look after them til they are 20 and beyond... grandchildren - is not our choice, and we're likely to die midway whilst looking after them. u decide how u wanna play it... i have my own views and take on this already, and i dun think when i'm 50-60 - i have to live to YOUR or My Children's expectations... not when they have displayed Ungratefulness and taken me for granted.
so until u fellas actually bother to FEEL, dun judge on basis of how innocent the granddaughter is, and how unfair things are.
Who the hell doesn't know the granddaughter is innocent?? hey, that boy without hands sitting outside the temple in bangkok is also innocent - u helping him? at most u give $100 and u dun ever have to think abt him ever again... u start with a grandchild - u are forever in it. everyday of your life til u DIE. so why start When u dun wish to?
so if MIL doesn't want to... why are u guys so intent on Reasoning why she should?
well, i just reasoned why she HAS A CHOICE.
When u are hurt, u are hurt. u have the right not to want to get hurt again.
what is fair? and to who?
if we wanna talk abt being fair, we NEED to be fair on All angles, not just 1 angle.
dun talk abt being fair when u're Out of the picture, there is No consistency whatsoever... just look at jenny and BP... do u think they came into this thread saying "i'm gonna be Fair"? they can't even get their lives on track, and all they do is pinpoint my use of profanity, and fail to look beyond. trying to garner frens Using my profanities as a Platform to bond with other forummers.
they're not even here for the TS, to be blatantly honest. it's so lame i dun even know where to begin...
She is just a petty old lady period. One can argue till the cow come home about rights. It further proves the point. We cherish family ties not based on responsibilities and rights. When one goes into a long list of implications and possibilities over to justify the reluctance to show any affection, it already freaking obvious. Does the very moment she has a bond with the grandchild, she would somehow be blackmailed emotionally and no way to reject? What basis is that on? She continues to have good bonding with the grandson despite no contact with DIL. Ironic isn't it to talk about all the BLACKMAIL when she can happily bond with her grandson still. The 'hurt' is dramatized by the individual that is why she cannot freaking move on. If she wants to, she can. She is restricted by her self imposed limitations. Of cos, she has the choice. It is her choice to completely have nothing to do with her grand daughter.
"BUT, i DUN BELIEVE THAT the MIL HATES her own granddaughter"
I disagree.... she doesn't hate her... but she cannot even be bothered to visit her or have any contacts with her. She don't hate her but the moment she see her grandchild, it automatically reminds her of her dil. Weird don't u think?
The moment we change the perspective to an auntie one, everything make sense. She is baised to boys, and petty towards DIL mistakes. DIL isn't exactly an angel herself, she totally screwed up on the 1st baby and MIL is going to punish her for life. Starting with the grand daughter. She will not acknowledge her presence or have anything to do with her. Everything said or done will be perceived negatively. She is transferring the resentments to the grand daughter to get back on her mother. Its not weird or surprising at all. Very common amongst the elderly.
i dun think it's anger itself... but more of çœ‹ç ´, which could be misinterpreted by TS and u guys.
when u reach the point of çœ‹ç ´, u simply dun care anymore... and u certainly won't be too bothered abt how others perceive u.
u're asking me on a solution for the relationship to be mended again... but what i have been doing, is precisely This. IF TS cannot even feel the extent of hurt that it may have caused, and still feel Unfairness over remorse... TS will never be in the right frame of mind to offer any form of apology that can even be deemed effective.
we know an Apology when we hear it. "sorry" is said in many ways, but only effective if the very essence of it being uttered - is of the sincerest most sorry form.
"u certainly won't be too bothered abt how others perceive u."
Family ties isn't for anyone to see in the 1st place. One certainly will not worry all the implications if they truly see open. They will know how to manage the DIL no matter how idiotic and bitchy she is. She certainly doesn't need the DIL to become an angel before she can move on and care freely for her grand daughter.
But, coming from auntie perspective, we know its almost impossible.
no, I will not take care of my grandchildren in place of their parents. Its not the point of discussion. You are taking the assumption again that the moment grandparents bond and have affection for the grandchildren, they have to also take on the responsibilities and roles to take care. I don't understand why that assumption.
I feel it is more anger than çœ‹ç ´ le....coz like Milo say, if çœ‹ç ´ she will not have say seeing the granddaughter remind her of the DIL lor....I feel tat the MIL feel lose of face and nt being respect when TS blast at her. + abit of zhong nan qing nu thinking so she can do it to totally ignore the bb gal lor...
in my view, if really çœ‹ç ´, she will nt even wan to bother with the grandson liao...
1 that faults the MIL and instills the TS to sorta wanna dismiss this whole thing altogether... no need to try anymore. MIL biased against girls.
1 that makes one self-reflect and motivate ways to make amends.
between to 2, i think it is easier to convince TS than the MIL... and u think that way too. so If u ever really want the granddaugther to feel loved...
which step would u take?
honestly, again... i am many steps ahead of most of u.
tat's why it's tiring for me as well... sometimes i also çœ‹ç ´... cos if u guys really so keen to bring them together, especially the granddaughter... u would not have spent so much time on the wrongness and biase of the MIL.
so do u think they wil be any step closer with the Biased MIL POV, than if TS really felt the impact of my words... swallowed the bitter pill, cried her lungs out and really sincerely apologised to the MIL?
what have u got to lose for trying? when u know u have lots to lose from Not trying.
Carol, the fact that your MIL simply only wants to see the grandson but not granddaughter suggests that she is waiting to be placated. I think she needs your sincere apologies and sincere attempts to make the relationship better. It's pretty obvious that she hasn't let go of the past. While I don't agree with her bearing grudges till this date, I do think her negative feelings towards you are well-justified. You felt she was being self-centred at that time when she rather took care of her own adult children than your grandchildren but likewise, she felt you were centred because even if she's the 'most free and lobo' person on earth, she has no obligation to take care of your grandchildren. If she does, it's a bonus. If she doesn't, it's still your responsibility. Though you realise it's your responsibility now, I doubt your MIL understands your mindset and you might not have done anything to make her feel respected again. One last note too...MIL and DIL relationship is never the same as Mother and daugther relationship hence all the more, when offended in the past, she is less likely to forgive and forget and move on. Perhaps it's easier for you because you were at fault to begin with? Now to her, she's probably just trying to 'retaliate' and make your life difficult.
I feel strongly that you should do something about it, that is to gain her trust and respect again by treating her with sincerity and humility. Only time, sincerity and effort can heal / mend a broken relationship. All the best...
Today should be a great day with all the drinkings with the kids n the parents etc...
However it's very sad to know that the kind popo who greet me with the smiles n greetings just days ago passed away today. In fact I could just rem her lovely smiles just days ago and today she just passed away.
U know peeps.....life's so short ya...I just wish I could spend more time to chat with her but she's no longer around.
If your elderly's still around, do not calculate with them please!!! Treasure and more tolerance to them please!!! they wont be with you forever.
so are jenny and BP gonna be Woman enough to apologise to me?
or are they conveniently pretending this thread didn't happen?
so much for integrity, i would like the 2 of u off... my back in future.
if u have no ability to argue, dun fault my language. u only look dumb.
and jenny, dun talk like a little kid trying to incite an audience with stupid low level comments like "I better let go, before Powder come attacking me with harsh and sarcastic words again. Better go do better things than wasting time arguing with him here. Bye!"
u attack first and u Dare Play victim, and u Think pple can't even see thru it. u're Not even at my level and u make it sound like u're the better person who decides to walk away.
i would like to dismiss u. u have lost all credibility, nomatter what u post, nobody will really bother becos u've proven yourself to be dumb.
funny i wasn't aware that i was angry, just owed an apology by the 2 of u for coming in here and going on abt my use of 'fcuk' for emphasis.
u can't stand my sarcasm and langauge is Your problem isn't it? just as u can't deal with your problems, can't solve your problems And u still have time to make my language a problem for Yourself - which u try to incite others to agree with u.
the apology is due in this thread on a few of the posts. Dun ever make me your platform for popularity... u dig deep and u Know it yourself that u are wrong to try that at my expense.
jenny i dun care cos she's just typical charbor dumb and petty.. but for u i expect abit more.
without doubt, an apology Is Due to me by the 2 of u. if u dun wanna apologise, then be bothered to argue and refute me. Else dun just pretend nothing happened and hope that it slides...
take responsibility for your actions. else dun ever dare bring up my language and not be able to follow thru.
powder, its never about convincing the MIL at all. Rather, TS to understand the simple fact that life isn't perfect. We don't have perfect situation, lamenting how she wish her MIL is more understanding, relationship with her is better etc is going change the reality. That's where her expectations gotta stop. It has to be inline with reality.
That's where both of us have been driving across for TS.
I want u to b clear abt tis....i m nt making u or tis forum a platform for popularity. Never hav i incited others to agree w me either. Tis is a baseless accusation thrown at me n i do nt think it is fair.
I hav nt offended u in anyway, n do nt think tt u can use ur aggressiveness to bully me into giving u an apology. I feel t hav d right to comment abt ur use of language if i do nt feel comfortable with it, juz like u hav commented on me too.
Powder, do nt go too far, n do nt overstep ur boundaries. I feel u r threatening me n shld tis continue, i will alert d moderator of tis forum.
jenny plays victim while she is the one coming in trying to pull a quick one. Not witty nor intelligent. Credibility gone since the 1st exchange when she went round of wild accusation and lumping everyone. One can only do this much to remind and bring her back to the discussion. She doesn't have any interest at all in that, her agenda is more than obvious in this thread.
bp & powder, I believe u both have made your points pretty clear about your views already.
BP, you cannot really stop his language. Its enough to voice out once or twice. No point repeating over it. You can surely bring it up to the admin, I'm sure you probably isn't the 1st. It is up to powder to heel the feedback or not. We are not the owners of the site nor do we have any authority to change another person's tone or approach. Likewise, powder can demand an apology, but you need not comply either. Moving forward, i would suggest, to focus on the topic at hand rather than historical disagreements. Its pointless to be bringing back these and argue in every thread. MOVE ON.