Will things change after we have our own place?
- Thread starter sters
- Start date
you have to understand one thing that your husband will still have to go back to his parents' (your in-laws) place every now and then. Unless you don't intend to visit them ever again?
difference in views between elders and juniors is very common...it depends on how you handle it. Need to have common sense and EQ basically.
have you ever tried to warm up to them and get to know them better?
difference in views between elders and juniors is very common...it depends on how you handle it. Need to have common sense and EQ basically.
have you ever tried to warm up to them and get to know them better?
me n my in-laws of coz have some diff points of view but we jus accommodate each other..
example: my parents in-laws are hiding in the room now after i move in and my husband feels sad for this to happen.. n hope i tok to them more.. but i cant be toking to them everyday about everything.. i also will feel tired after work rite? besides how i know y they hide in the room?!
example: my parents in-laws are hiding in the room now after i move in and my husband feels sad for this to happen.. n hope i tok to them more.. but i cant be toking to them everyday about everything.. i also will feel tired after work rite? besides how i know y they hide in the room?!
jefferson_edison
New Member
moving out is the best way to solve the MIL problem.
when u go home u can relax. the whole day in the office got to face stress with boss and cilent, when go back home have to face a retired MIL who whole day nothing to do when u go home find fault with u. this will make your life sucks.
some MIL or most MIL of this generation still have this twisted thinking of woman still need to obey the husband, treated like a maid and whatever u do their eyes see buay song because they compare your with what they are when they are your age.
when u go home u can relax. the whole day in the office got to face stress with boss and cilent, when go back home have to face a retired MIL who whole day nothing to do when u go home find fault with u. this will make your life sucks.
some MIL or most MIL of this generation still have this twisted thinking of woman still need to obey the husband, treated like a maid and whatever u do their eyes see buay song because they compare your with what they are when they are your age.
wat_are_dreamz
New Member
Hi Sters, ur issue is with ur hubby, not ur in-laws. Things will not change by much even after u move out cos the issue is still unresolved.
How long have u been married? U say u feel like an outsider, then spend more time n effort to bond with ur hubby's family so tat u can really be part of the family. I dun think ur in-laws are hiding in the room after u moved in. Maybe its more to give u n ur hubby privacy n maybe to make u feel more comfortable. U dun have to talk to them everyday abt everything. But u have to remember tat unlike ur own family who saw u grow up n are used to ur character over the yrs, ur in-laws have only spent a small fraction of tat time with u. So to build up the bond takes time, sincerity n effort. U can have dinner with ur in-laws or bring them out once a month etc. On ur way home from work, u can buy some desserts or pie. Then u can knock on ur parent-in-laws room door n tell them u bought food, ask whether they want to eat it now or put in the kitchen or fridge. At least try to promote more interaction.
Chances are tat ur hubby sees his parents as being ur parents as well, since u are now married, so he hopes u can treat his parents well n bond with them more.
Honestly, u should have spoke with ur hubby b4 marriage to understand his view n expectations of his wife. Spend more time with ur in-laws n find time to go out with ur hubby on a nice date each week to share ur tots n seek a better mutual understanding. Moving out will not solve ur issue.
How long have u been married? U say u feel like an outsider, then spend more time n effort to bond with ur hubby's family so tat u can really be part of the family. I dun think ur in-laws are hiding in the room after u moved in. Maybe its more to give u n ur hubby privacy n maybe to make u feel more comfortable. U dun have to talk to them everyday abt everything. But u have to remember tat unlike ur own family who saw u grow up n are used to ur character over the yrs, ur in-laws have only spent a small fraction of tat time with u. So to build up the bond takes time, sincerity n effort. U can have dinner with ur in-laws or bring them out once a month etc. On ur way home from work, u can buy some desserts or pie. Then u can knock on ur parent-in-laws room door n tell them u bought food, ask whether they want to eat it now or put in the kitchen or fridge. At least try to promote more interaction.
Chances are tat ur hubby sees his parents as being ur parents as well, since u are now married, so he hopes u can treat his parents well n bond with them more.
Honestly, u should have spoke with ur hubby b4 marriage to understand his view n expectations of his wife. Spend more time with ur in-laws n find time to go out with ur hubby on a nice date each week to share ur tots n seek a better mutual understanding. Moving out will not solve ur issue.
flyingstar
New Member
i think the in-laws are also not used to having you around.
it's vice versa...you have to adapt to living with them and they have to adapt to living with you as well. your husband should be the bridge to bring both his parents and you together.
going out for meals, having dinner together, is a good start. if no topics to talk about, your husband should be the initiator...ask for your views, then you can in turn ask for his parents' views....and you have a conversation going.
to be frank, if his parents are in the room, isn't it more rude to just go in and start talking to them? maybe they just want to rest, do their own thing, watch tv in the room?
i for one, don't like to go into other ppl's rooms...will approach them if they are in the living room/kitchen/study...but i feel that bedroom is their private area.
it's vice versa...you have to adapt to living with them and they have to adapt to living with you as well. your husband should be the bridge to bring both his parents and you together.
going out for meals, having dinner together, is a good start. if no topics to talk about, your husband should be the initiator...ask for your views, then you can in turn ask for his parents' views....and you have a conversation going.
to be frank, if his parents are in the room, isn't it more rude to just go in and start talking to them? maybe they just want to rest, do their own thing, watch tv in the room?
i for one, don't like to go into other ppl's rooms...will approach them if they are in the living room/kitchen/study...but i feel that bedroom is their private area.
one time, i was expressing milk in my bedroom with the door closed but my MIL came in, sat down next to me and started chatting .. i was a bit paiseh but to her, it's nothing special.
i've also had my FIL's family come and sit on my bed before - i'm ok since in my family, we also used to do that .. all of us sit on the bed to chit-chat.
it just takes some getting used to, that's all.
i've also had my FIL's family come and sit on my bed before - i'm ok since in my family, we also used to do that .. all of us sit on the bed to chit-chat.
it just takes some getting used to, that's all.
cococherry
New Member
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galileo_girl
New Member
If you ask me, I am definitely against the idea of staying with in laws. Staying with in law does not breed harmony but animosity.
No privacy, no freedom, sometimes no prerogative, a home is supposed to let you have privacy, freedom and prerogative, but staying with in law will deprive you of all these and rob your marriage happiness.
Imagine these few scenarios
a. You cook a sumptuous meal for your husband,
and after eating, you left the dishes on the
sink to go catch your favourite drama, when
your in laws saw the dishes on the sink, what
would they think? If they wash for you, they
feel bitter inside thinking that you
deliberately left there for them to wash, if
they did not wash up, they still unhappy
thinking that you inconsiderate.But in actual
fact, you did not deliberately left in sink,
its just that you will wash it later as you
dont want to miss the drama show. So this
lead to misunderstanding.
But in your own house without in law, you can
wash anytime. The only person who nag at you
is your husband. But if your pil nag at you
over this, will you be happy?
b. You have a bad day at office, you went home in melancholy mood, and when your pil talk to you, you appear aloof, giving monosyllabic answers. They dont know you have a bad day at work, and they start having conjecture that you unhappy with them, maybe over last few days minor conflict, thus deepen the misunderstanding and conflcit with them.
I stay with my in laws for years, and when they at home, I would hide in my room and vice versa. Ended up, the living room is always empty.
No privacy, no freedom, sometimes no prerogative, a home is supposed to let you have privacy, freedom and prerogative, but staying with in law will deprive you of all these and rob your marriage happiness.
Imagine these few scenarios
a. You cook a sumptuous meal for your husband,
and after eating, you left the dishes on the
sink to go catch your favourite drama, when
your in laws saw the dishes on the sink, what
would they think? If they wash for you, they
feel bitter inside thinking that you
deliberately left there for them to wash, if
they did not wash up, they still unhappy
thinking that you inconsiderate.But in actual
fact, you did not deliberately left in sink,
its just that you will wash it later as you
dont want to miss the drama show. So this
lead to misunderstanding.
But in your own house without in law, you can
wash anytime. The only person who nag at you
is your husband. But if your pil nag at you
over this, will you be happy?
b. You have a bad day at office, you went home in melancholy mood, and when your pil talk to you, you appear aloof, giving monosyllabic answers. They dont know you have a bad day at work, and they start having conjecture that you unhappy with them, maybe over last few days minor conflict, thus deepen the misunderstanding and conflcit with them.
I stay with my in laws for years, and when they at home, I would hide in my room and vice versa. Ended up, the living room is always empty.
jefferson_edison
New Member
yes living with in law tends to have lots of problem, when your in law is not those understanding type, or willing to do a bit of task type.
your mother in law will compare how's your life now and theirs when she's married to your husband's father.
but she aren't have any knowledge of in this modern age, woman is equal with man and some earn alot more then man.
so it's still better to live at your own place when you can afford it.
Depending on the kind of in law you have, some in law is very helpful and when there's maid in the house, and house work is not a bother to the family, living together is not that bad.
but some in law think that the maid you and your husband hired belong to them and you cannot tell her what to do, this kind of in law is hard to live with.
there's always bad people in the office, and bad in law in the house. it'll drive you crazy if u have both.
in office, you suffered - bad boss and colleage.
at home, you suffered too - bad in laws and husband.
your mother in law will compare how's your life now and theirs when she's married to your husband's father.
but she aren't have any knowledge of in this modern age, woman is equal with man and some earn alot more then man.
so it's still better to live at your own place when you can afford it.
Depending on the kind of in law you have, some in law is very helpful and when there's maid in the house, and house work is not a bother to the family, living together is not that bad.
but some in law think that the maid you and your husband hired belong to them and you cannot tell her what to do, this kind of in law is hard to live with.
there's always bad people in the office, and bad in law in the house. it'll drive you crazy if u have both.
in office, you suffered - bad boss and colleage.
at home, you suffered too - bad in laws and husband.
cococherry
New Member
galileo_girl
Did you tell them not to worry and that you will wash it later?
Apologise for appearing aloof and that is because that you are having a bad day at work?
Did you tell them not to worry and that you will wash it later?
Apologise for appearing aloof and that is because that you are having a bad day at work?
miloice
Well-Known Member
Seems communication is not there hence all the misunderstanding over even simple things like this. Its not a matter with the in laws or not. If you don't communicate with your partner, probably, you will also have such miscommunication with him.
frankly, just get a maid to do with the cleaning. Don't start with this waste money thing again. IF you are willing to live with the inconvenience, then be realistic about it, no point ranting non stop. If you want all the convenience etc, then you have to pay for it.
frankly, just get a maid to do with the cleaning. Don't start with this waste money thing again. IF you are willing to live with the inconvenience, then be realistic about it, no point ranting non stop. If you want all the convenience etc, then you have to pay for it.
Looking at the family's problem with communication, I'm afraid adding the maid into the fracas just spells trouble. Even though the paymaster might be DIL, I suspect that there'll be a power struggle over who's really "boss". Then the poor maid suffers. DIL says ABC, MIL says XYZ. Nobody wants to eat humble pie. Everyone just wants to be "right".
galileo_girl
New Member
chocolatte
I am just giving scenarios. By the way, this kind of sensitive feelings are both sided.
Everytime after I whipped up dinner for my husband, I did not immediately wash the dishes in sink, as I want to eat piping hot meal. Then mil would immediately go wash, and I dont like it as i feel i can do it myself. So i tell her i would wash it myself, but she still insist on washing for me. So i just think she does it out of good intention, so I just leave to her to wash since she wants her way.
Then got one time, I left few dishes on sink, I overheard her complaining to fil angrily saying that I left the dishes for the old folks to wash.
I was flabbergasted by her grouses as I did not intentionally left for her to wash, and whenever I left dishes on sink, she would insist on washing despite me telling her I would do it myself. And those dishes are not left for days, just for minutes she would want to wash. I dont comprehend why she makes that complaint saying I left the dishes for old folks to wash when she insist on washing my leftover dishes most times?
She did not deliberately make this complaint to let me hear, I accidentally heard it. When she saw my annoyed face, she knew I heard it.
After that incident, I tell myself I will never let her wash my dishes. After that complaint she makes,got one time, she wash my dishes again and I tell her I will do it myself, she still insists washing for me, so I went over to the sink and took the plate she washing from her. She is unhappy.
Matka,
ya, its pretty true that MIL and DIL having this power struggle in house. Its the different perception of two women of different era holds. Women are already liberated in modern era with many prerogatives in many aspects, but mils are still revolving around their own era with weird thoughts that they have the utmost authority in house and we dils have to be docile and subservient to them.
Got one time my mil and I quarrel over some silly and minor issues. She said that I control where she put her things, like for instance, she put this thing in A, and I put it in B because I thought its proper to put it there, then she not happy saying that I trying to manipulate her.
My mil in an angry tone tells me that she bore my husband and she has the greatest power, and I owe my happiness to her. I find her statement absurd and ridiculous, but I did not refute her seeing her so livid, I dont dare antagonise her further. But in my heart, I thought" Dont you remember how you try to break us up in the past? It should be you trying to destroy my happiness, and i fought it myself, since when it become your credit?
Her son is already a married adult, she still want to possess his love, want dils to be grateful to her for her sons loving them, what kind of logic is this? The bottomline is she want to be the head of the house. Cant she see that the era has changed? Nowadays husbands listen to wives,its so obvious that all her sons drifting away from her, yet she still want to speak of dils as home wreckers.
If a mil truely love her dil, she not only gets a filial dil, her son also more filial than before. If a mil every now and then keep finding faults with dil, bitter jealousy over dil, then a war will break out.
I am just giving scenarios. By the way, this kind of sensitive feelings are both sided.
Everytime after I whipped up dinner for my husband, I did not immediately wash the dishes in sink, as I want to eat piping hot meal. Then mil would immediately go wash, and I dont like it as i feel i can do it myself. So i tell her i would wash it myself, but she still insist on washing for me. So i just think she does it out of good intention, so I just leave to her to wash since she wants her way.
Then got one time, I left few dishes on sink, I overheard her complaining to fil angrily saying that I left the dishes for the old folks to wash.
I was flabbergasted by her grouses as I did not intentionally left for her to wash, and whenever I left dishes on sink, she would insist on washing despite me telling her I would do it myself. And those dishes are not left for days, just for minutes she would want to wash. I dont comprehend why she makes that complaint saying I left the dishes for old folks to wash when she insist on washing my leftover dishes most times?
She did not deliberately make this complaint to let me hear, I accidentally heard it. When she saw my annoyed face, she knew I heard it.
After that incident, I tell myself I will never let her wash my dishes. After that complaint she makes,got one time, she wash my dishes again and I tell her I will do it myself, she still insists washing for me, so I went over to the sink and took the plate she washing from her. She is unhappy.
Matka,
ya, its pretty true that MIL and DIL having this power struggle in house. Its the different perception of two women of different era holds. Women are already liberated in modern era with many prerogatives in many aspects, but mils are still revolving around their own era with weird thoughts that they have the utmost authority in house and we dils have to be docile and subservient to them.
Got one time my mil and I quarrel over some silly and minor issues. She said that I control where she put her things, like for instance, she put this thing in A, and I put it in B because I thought its proper to put it there, then she not happy saying that I trying to manipulate her.
My mil in an angry tone tells me that she bore my husband and she has the greatest power, and I owe my happiness to her. I find her statement absurd and ridiculous, but I did not refute her seeing her so livid, I dont dare antagonise her further. But in my heart, I thought" Dont you remember how you try to break us up in the past? It should be you trying to destroy my happiness, and i fought it myself, since when it become your credit?
Her son is already a married adult, she still want to possess his love, want dils to be grateful to her for her sons loving them, what kind of logic is this? The bottomline is she want to be the head of the house. Cant she see that the era has changed? Nowadays husbands listen to wives,its so obvious that all her sons drifting away from her, yet she still want to speak of dils as home wreckers.
If a mil truely love her dil, she not only gets a filial dil, her son also more filial than before. If a mil every now and then keep finding faults with dil, bitter jealousy over dil, then a war will break out.
Seem like we cannot put 2 completely unrelated woman together in one house, like a chinese saying 'one mountain cannot have 2 tigress', do you gals check up your htb's parents especially the mother before getting married? What are the triats or things to look up for which is indicative of a monster mil? How important a factor that mil come into your decision to marry your htb? Did you insist not staying with his mother as a marriage precondition? Now I am more aware of such thing, sound complicated and no fun, haven't even talk about sil, fil...ok...good..now we have to take the whole family into consideration...seem like fil has not much problem and easier to handle...can get into good term with him to counter his wife?
miloice
Well-Known Member
hi Galileo,
on your MIL behavior on washing the dishes... it has a lot to do with personal kitchen and household habits. She is probably the type that cannot stand having dishes lying around. And she will nag and nag.
Please filter her naggings. Maybe I share how we handle it... We will tell and remind MIL not to wash or we will be angry in a humourous way. If I still find her washing, I would just thank her and insist to take over. Reminding her that I have already asked her not to wash. Don't make me feel bad. Again, all in a very loving manner.
My wife is frequently upset with her own mother because she is always nagging over such things. MIL is always complaining how troublesome and tiring it is for her. But, everything is because she wants things done her way, her timing frankly. Is there a need to be angry at all? How long more do you need to be angry over such things.
You can trivialize it. Its about your mindset. Don't get upset over some dishes or her nagging. Have that realistic expectation that she will nag.
on your MIL behavior on washing the dishes... it has a lot to do with personal kitchen and household habits. She is probably the type that cannot stand having dishes lying around. And she will nag and nag.
Please filter her naggings. Maybe I share how we handle it... We will tell and remind MIL not to wash or we will be angry in a humourous way. If I still find her washing, I would just thank her and insist to take over. Reminding her that I have already asked her not to wash. Don't make me feel bad. Again, all in a very loving manner.
My wife is frequently upset with her own mother because she is always nagging over such things. MIL is always complaining how troublesome and tiring it is for her. But, everything is because she wants things done her way, her timing frankly. Is there a need to be angry at all? How long more do you need to be angry over such things.
You can trivialize it. Its about your mindset. Don't get upset over some dishes or her nagging. Have that realistic expectation that she will nag.
galileo_girl
New Member
outcast, I always tell my husband "yi shan bu neng chang er hu". Of course got check out mil before marriage, before marriage, mil already keep insinuating me to leave my hubby, got one time I got an amulet from temple, I put it in my husband pillow, she angrily ask me what is this and accused me of doing black magic on my husband, that is before marraige, I tolerated her for few years whenever she make nasty remarks on me, after which I start become defensive.
Mil doesnt have money to buy her own house, so I am being compel to stay with her.
Milo on rocks, I feel that conflicts between me and mil cannot be trivalize. Our grudge is so deep that we seriously are prejudiced and detest each other to the core. The conflicts between your wife and mil, its her biological mother, they can most likely reconcile the differences amicably,mu nu mei you ge ye chou. But mil and dil are entirely different, they are not so forgiving and magnanimous towards each other. It is ok to put daughter, son in law and mil together under one roof, but not dil and mil.
There is no love being bonded, just two women who are being compel to accept and accomodate each other because of one man.
I have a friend who has very good relations with her in law before marriage and initial few years of marriage, her in laws used to sang praises of her filial piety, and she was so well liked and favoured, but few years down the road, conflicts arises between she and mil, their relationship went sour and they have cold war on frequent basis, and her bitter sour relationship with her mil affected her relationship with the other in laws, resulting them disliking and dodging talking to her.
Its nobody fault, mil words infuriated me every now and then, robbing away my respect for her, different perceptions, I demand her respect by not hurting me with words and insults, she demand my respect on account she is elderly, so both sides dont want make peace, both reluctant to give way.
Mil doesnt have money to buy her own house, so I am being compel to stay with her.
Milo on rocks, I feel that conflicts between me and mil cannot be trivalize. Our grudge is so deep that we seriously are prejudiced and detest each other to the core. The conflicts between your wife and mil, its her biological mother, they can most likely reconcile the differences amicably,mu nu mei you ge ye chou. But mil and dil are entirely different, they are not so forgiving and magnanimous towards each other. It is ok to put daughter, son in law and mil together under one roof, but not dil and mil.
There is no love being bonded, just two women who are being compel to accept and accomodate each other because of one man.
I have a friend who has very good relations with her in law before marriage and initial few years of marriage, her in laws used to sang praises of her filial piety, and she was so well liked and favoured, but few years down the road, conflicts arises between she and mil, their relationship went sour and they have cold war on frequent basis, and her bitter sour relationship with her mil affected her relationship with the other in laws, resulting them disliking and dodging talking to her.
Its nobody fault, mil words infuriated me every now and then, robbing away my respect for her, different perceptions, I demand her respect by not hurting me with words and insults, she demand my respect on account she is elderly, so both sides dont want make peace, both reluctant to give way.
cococherry
New Member
galileo_girl,
U should start to find a place and move out. It's so miserable to stay under one roof with such a mil.
U should start to find a place and move out. It's so miserable to stay under one roof with such a mil.
jefferson_edison
New Member
yes just move out. buy a flat. move out. rent one room to Foreign talent.
let her pay for your flat.
let her pay for your flat.
sundownprince
New Member
How about spending less time at home go volunteer at a children's home or old folk's home... After seeing their plight maybe things will be better at home?
galileo_girl
New Member
Now I having cold war with mil. I didnt talk to her for weeks, I treat her transparent, and I experiencing domestic tranquility. Silence is golden, since cannot get along, dont talk is the best. When there is growing resentment in both parties, whatever said is being misinterpreted, in chinese we called it xin bing. Let the resentment dies down by not communicating with each other for an indefinite period of time, probably after long time when we start talking, we already become strangers and mil will not have the propensity to pass derogatory remarks on me again.
I have a sil who hardly talks to my mil, and her conversation with her is always monosyllabic. Their relationship is on courtesy terms, like strangers talking for first time. So my mil has never pass any bad remarks on her. So I trying to make my relationship with my mil on aloof terms, to the extent that if one day I talk to her, it will be monosyllabic like we are complete strangers.
I have a sil who hardly talks to my mil, and her conversation with her is always monosyllabic. Their relationship is on courtesy terms, like strangers talking for first time. So my mil has never pass any bad remarks on her. So I trying to make my relationship with my mil on aloof terms, to the extent that if one day I talk to her, it will be monosyllabic like we are complete strangers.
sundownprince
New Member
sigh... feel sad and depressed reading abt ur plight but dun foresee anything changing.
Maybe we can have recorder function and then repeat everything every few days:
Replay No 1:
Now I having cold war with mil. I didnt talk to her for weeks, I treat her transparent, and I experiencing domestic tranquility. Silence is golden, since cannot get along, dont talk is the best. When there is growing resentment in both parties, whatever said is being misinterpreted, in chinese we called it xin bing. Let the resentment dies down by not communicating with each other for an indefinite period of time, probably after long time when we start talking, we already become strangers and mil will not have the propensity to pass derogatory remarks on me again.
I have a sil who hardly talks to my mil, and her conversation with her is always monosyllabic. Their relationship is on courtesy terms, like strangers talking for first time. So my mil has never pass any bad remarks on her. So I trying to make my relationship with my mil on aloof terms, to the extent that if one day I talk to her, it will be monosyllabic like we are complete strangers.
Replay No 1:
Now I having cold war with mil. I didnt talk to her for weeks, I treat her transparent, and I experiencing domestic tranquility. Silence is golden, since cannot get along, dont talk is the best. When there is growing resentment in both parties, whatever said is being misinterpreted, in chinese we called it xin bing. Let the resentment dies down by not communicating with each other for an indefinite period of time, probably after long time when we start talking, we already become strangers and mil will not have the propensity to pass derogatory remarks on me again.
I have a sil who hardly talks to my mil, and her conversation with her is always monosyllabic. Their relationship is on courtesy terms, like strangers talking for first time. So my mil has never pass any bad remarks on her. So I trying to make my relationship with my mil on aloof terms, to the extent that if one day I talk to her, it will be monosyllabic like we are complete strangers.
dude,
u're too kind. i think there's enough material here for "The Best Of Gallileo & The Wailers"... 3 more months of this and we have a Legend in the making... perhaps even a christmas release followed by one for CNY...
pple like that will talk n talk but never have the freakin courage to leave, pretty typical, nothing new... an auntie who uses bombastic words wrongly to emit self-indulged aura.
u're too kind. i think there's enough material here for "The Best Of Gallileo & The Wailers"... 3 more months of this and we have a Legend in the making... perhaps even a christmas release followed by one for CNY...
pple like that will talk n talk but never have the freakin courage to leave, pretty typical, nothing new... an auntie who uses bombastic words wrongly to emit self-indulged aura.
in the first place if she's so good, and the husband is this weak, mild, scaredy little son... and she doesn't leave him... she can't be that strong either... so if anyone wanna argue, pls refrain from going that angle... it's a pointless angle... just a friendly warning.
she thinks that likening her to gangsters requires her to physically fight and have tattoo... i'm beginning to think her MIL is actually not that bad, judging by the warped sense of logic and referencing.
she thinks that likening her to gangsters requires her to physically fight and have tattoo... i'm beginning to think her MIL is actually not that bad, judging by the warped sense of logic and referencing.