Widowed MIL ( Living Arrangements)

[caramel_bath]

FH and me intend to ROM next year & get a flat.

Original plan : get our own home separately from his parents.

New Situation: FIL passed away this yr. FH has expressed he feels guilty about letting his mother stay alone after we get married. MIL is in early 60s & is still emotionally unstable & has expressed before he wishes to stay with son.

Background : FH is only son & he has stated he MUST stay near his mom to take care of her.

My dilemma: Its my dream to have my own home. I do not want to stay with in-laws. But im ok with staying next door.

Solution: 1) Buy jumbo with common corridor, create partition in jumbo . MIL stay one side of jumbo. we stay on other side. but i do not like the ulu places where jumbo can be found.

2) Buy 2 condo units on same floor ( very costly)

3) Buy 2 HDB on same floor . This means MIL will need to sell her flat & buy one flat for her self ( expensive option also as she need to top up $ to buy new flat definately with current pricing)


4) Invite MIL stay with us in new flat. Not an option I can accept honestly. but i know FB is in difficult position.

I'd like to know if there's any other options i can propose to my FH so we can have our own hse & ensure MIL is taken care of? (FB want her live near us) .

buying a home is a very major decision for a couple & I'd like to ensure neither of us feel resentful about the living arrangement.

 

[mark78]

5th Option. Have an open heart and rethink your action. Why bother to "pull" the son away from the mother when she need him most.

Ever try to think in the MIL position.

"Do not do to others what would anger you if done to you by others"

 

[mark78]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8731-sick-spouses-raise-risk-of-death-for-partners.html

read this and think that the MUM need the son now and not hope otherwise.

 

[green_tranquility]

MIL is all alone in the world now. Your hubby is the only reason for her to continue living now. To be blunt, how long more can she live? 10 years? Research has shown that when 1 partner passes away, the other partner will also pass away quickly due to emotional sadness and stress.

Try to be compassionate to the best of your means

 

[caramel_bath]

Note: hope you would read my comments in objective manner ya ?

Firstly, let's talk abt your advice. Both Onizuka & Green's suggestion is for the DIL to give in which is extremely lopsided i.e you guys just tell me to give in . Period. I'm amazed that because DIL is has decades more to live compared to MIL, there is zero consideration to her needs & wants in terms of living arrangements.
WHY wasn't there a stance towards compromising & looking for win-win situation?

Secondly, after thinking carefully abt the issue, I'd request my hubby to compromise i.e option 2 or 3. Yes, It's going to be costly. but would be truly worth it. We can take care of his mother. I get my privacy. Beats feeling resentful if I were to give in unwillingly - life is too short for anyone to be living unhappily (in their home) - not his mother, and not me either, regardless of how many years.

Like to know what you think MIL will think of option 2/3?

Thanks for your time !!

 

[green_tranquility]

Caramel,
Think you have mistaken my prev post haha. I'm not saying that you must stay with your future mil. I'm asking you to be compassionate when treating your mil, that's all

Compassionate, for e.g. let your fh go home have dinner with his mum often next time.

Noone here will be able to guess what your future mil will think. Your fh has to help you ask her after her emotion gets more stable.

 

[mark78]

Maybe deciding to filter away other option "lands" you in a better option. get option 2 + get domestic helper to take care of her needs + green advice. (looking at only option 2 n 3)

And btw what zero consideration you are taking about? If you going to accept the fact that you are marrying her son, you should spare a though in answering his needs such as taking care of the mum. The whole do not just evolve around ME Me me.....

Btw there is a win win situation is to appreciate your MIL and open up option 4. May your mil and FB

green so late still havent sleep?

 

[bluegal]

Hi Caramel,
I am not sure if because of not staying with mil and you guys opt for option 2 is a wise choice or not? Buying 2 condo units will means you are taking higher loan. But if I were you, given current economy crisis I'll go for 2 HDB, look for a place whereby there's studio apartment with 4/5 room flat.

 

[happinessbliss]

Hi Caramel,

I used to think like you. I wanted my own house and told myself to marry someone who has the same thinking as me. But when I knew my husband, his parents are already going thru divorce and I knew from then that shld I marry him, I would have to stay with his mum as his elder bro is already married and staying next block. And also I do not have the heart to ask him to tell his mother to stay alone.
I have to admit that staying together with MIL is not easy, no matter how good is the MIL. I do have my fair share of conflicts and up and downs.
But think abt it this way, if you are old and alone, and your kids decided to get married and they do not want to stay with you, how would you feel?
So if you decide that you want to marry your FH, then i suppose you will have to accept the fact that you have to stay with yr FMIL too...

 

[mark78]

"if you are old and alone, and your kids decided to get married and they do not want to stay with you, how would you feel? "

"Do not do to others what would anger you if done to you by others"

 

[caramel_bath]

Thanks to all of you for yr inputs .
still option 2 or 3 for me ;>
Any one of you & neighbour selling units on same floor ? ;P

 

[green_tranquility]

Caramel,
So your FH has agreed with you on option 2 & 3?

 

[caramel_bath]

Not yet. need to discuss with him. whoa, are you awake at such hrs every day?

 

[green_tranquility]

Caramel,
Yah sometimes hehe. I'm more awake at nite!

 

[mark78]

Caramel, why bother to seek for advice when u have already pre determined the answer you sought for? To feel less guilty hoping that there are a few more votes that favor you in your act?

Happiness&Bliss. good tht you realize the good and evil.

 

[caramel_bath]

Onizuka, I'm not running for election, there's no need to win any votes.

The point of posting here is to explore alternative view points before discussing with partner.

This topic of living with MIL is very interesting. Hope to hear from more who can share their experience in this area.

 

[susanna_low]

I can understand Caramel's need for her own home and privacy.
It's really impt to have a shelter that u know that u can really relax and to keep sane especially for newly wed and it's going to greatly impact their marriage in the future. These few years are really crucial and they need to adapt mutual living style too.
Moreover, it is not as though she's going to forsake her MIL.
Maybe you can get a flat near your MIL instead of asking her to shift, alot of elderly are reluctant to move away from the place that they are familiar in.
Initially you might like to stay overnight once or twice weekly and if possible can go back for dinner every night before going back to your own cosy nest.
I feel that the most important is to really care for her, u might like to bring her out for breakfast, shopping, watch a movie or even call her during lunchtime, let her know that she's not forgotten. It is definitely better than staying together like 2 strangers or worse, with conflicts!
In the future when you get to know each other living style better, and when u have kids, you can consider to get her to sell off her unit and stay with you.
Don't be impulse in making housing decisions whenever it involves two properties.

 

[susanna_low]

sorry pls refer to the edited version instead

I can understand Caramel's need for her own home and privacy.
It's really impt to have a shelter that u know you can go back no matter how heavy the storm is.
For newly weds, these few years are very crucial as they need to adapt to each other lifestyle.
In laws issues might impact the marriage especially when the kids come along.
Moreover, it is not as though she's going to forsake her MIL.
Maybe you can get a flat near your MIL instead of asking her to shift, alot of elderly are reluctant to move away from the place that they are familiar in.
Initially you might like to stay overnight once or twice weekly and if possible can go back for dinner every night before going back to your own cosy nest.
I feel that the most important is to really show concern to her, bring her out for breakfast, shopping, watch a movie and even a phonecall during lunch can be very heartwarming, let her feel that she's not alone in this world and u genuinely care for her. This definitely beats staying together like strangers or worse, conflicts of interest, quarrels and unhappiness occur!
I have friends who stay with the parents after marriage but treat each other like enemies and there's hardly peace in the families.
In the future when you get to understand each other better and have no problem getting along, you might like to consider to get her to sell off her unit and stay with you.
Don't be impulsive in making decisions especially when it involves properties.

 

[happinessbliss]

Onizuka,

I won't say i can differntiate the good or evil... But like i mention in my earlier post, I do not have the heart to leave my MIL to stay alone. But having said that, I will not say that staying with MIL is smooth sailing. And it sure need alot of tolerance

 

[my_desired_happiness]

hi

i agree totally w susanna. it is no use 'pretending' to be a good DIL by letting e MIL stay w u if it means tt the MIL and DIL are gonna give each other black face everyday.

like e saying xiang jian hao, tong zhu nan, it means it is easier to see each other but not stay together.

moving near ur MIL will be a good idea. dun need to both move hse la! that is kinds extreme. then, make more time for her and bring her out... this is a really difficult period for her. imagine ur husband suddenly leave u aft being by ur side for so long...

maybe ur husband or u can consider moving over on selected days to keep her company at night. im sure ur MIL will really appreciate someone by her side in lonely nights.

one more idea i can think of, is encourage her to take some some activities like joining taiji, singing classes at CC. can make some friends there. i know the CC also organise community involvement programme for aunties to take part in. then she wont feel like the hse is her only space.

 

[powder]

caramel,

i understand wat u're looking for, i guess living searately is the best option...

something that i have explored, which will be a cheaper option than 2 condo units, and might work out well depending on how much of a personal-space person u are... would be a Duplex, or a double-story Penthouse. it takes more effort in sourcing the right ones with the right layout/design.

have seen a couple where the whole upper storey is a dedicated Master bedroom, most times with balcony else with an open terrace. and downstairs is a 2nd Bedroom + Living + Maid + Kitchen. Maid's used as storeroom, Mum stays in the 2nd BR, and the Living/Kitchen can be a shared space... afterall who better to keep downstairs tidy right?

What u can do is just fashion your MBR after a Residential Suite, much like a deluxe hotel room (upstairs normally very big cos imagine it's almost the same size as downstairs which houses the kitcehn, living, 2nd BR and Maid's room)... of cos the only thing is u share the entrance unless u want MIL to use the service entrance/service lift which abit not-nice lah.

so basically downstairs is Shared space with MIL... upstairs is Entirely your domain with tv, mini-fridge, walkin-wardrobe, toilet n even a balcony to enjoy the solitude. it's up to u to put a little gaqte at the start of the staircase on the 1st floor but i doubt tat's necessary.

anyway if u're psychologicall fine with the idea, then no harm looking around at duplexes or penthouses. specify tat u need 1 BR in the 1st floor, and well 2nd floor 1-2BR doesn't matter. dun let the word 'penthouse' put u off, it's not as expensive as it sounds... it's just depends on the configuration.

 

[powder]

ok i couldn't find the picts of the exact 2BR layout i was talking abt, but just for illustrative purpose... have a look at this condo's penthouse for example... this is a 4BR so it's abit big. this one has 2BR downstairs + 2BRs upstairs. http://www.view2offer.com/10441

Bedroom 1 and Bedroom 2 are upstairs... so u imagine the whole upstairs to be YOUR space... u'll see the typical balcony.

Bedroom 3 is downstairs... from this video u can see the staircase leading up to BR 1&2... so this will be the boundary... of cos i think sharing the living and kitchen is fine... and it's also a common place for u guys to have your meals n updates with MIL.

this place i saw actually very nice n was going for abt 1.7mil during the peak... u dun need such a huge place, so the 2BR types might be good anough and just touching above the 1.0mil mark. i did see a 2BR one which is Really nice... it was going for abt 1.25mil (abit overpriced but was extremely posh and expense wasn't spared at the reno/design.

ps; i'm not in real estate btw...

 

[skylar]

nice house powder!

 

[powder]

ya was relly nice... temptation was kinda strong too...

 

[salsa_babe]

powder....go and pay the downpayment now lah

rem to invite us over for housewarming

 

[avery_l]

Hi caramel, option 2 is gd as well. Can care for MIL and have ur own privacy. I can understand ur needs in having ur own privacy wic u firmly decide. Although ur MIL needs alot of attention but sumtimes things n relationships are better off living separately.

 

[susanna_low]

It should be costing around around the same as 2 condo too!

 

[powder]

salsa, tat was over a year ago... was sold liao. i got kid so won't be looking at anything with staircase for now...

 

[powder]

susanna,

may be tough to find 2 condos totalling abt 1.0mil... besides, maintenance will be x2, power bills x2, stamp duties, 2sets of loans to approve, 2sets of insurance, 2 sets of renovation, 2 sets of fridge, tv, sofa, scv, dining tables etc etc...

 

[caramel_bath]

Susanna, i absolutely agree with you on your paragraph below. Quality time vs quantity of time spent together.

Hands up, anyone of you learnt to appreciate your parents more after you moved out from parents' home??

" most important is to really care for her, u might like to bring her out for breakfast, shopping, watch a movie or even call her during lunchtime, let her know that she's not forgotten. It is definitely better than staying together like 2 strangers or worse, with conflicts! "

Powder, what do you think abt the idea of either 2 condo units on same flr at less prime area or 2 hdb units at more prime location? in terms oflong term investment next time, rental yield may be lower at less prime locations but net profit may still be better as price psf is much lower compared to prime location.

 

[caramel_bath]

Susanna, i absolutely agree with you on your paragraph below. Quality time vs quantity of time spent together.

Hands up, anyone of you learnt to appreciate your parents more after you moved out from parents' home??

" most important is to really care for her, u might like to bring her out for breakfast, shopping, watch a movie or even call her during lunchtime, let her know that she's not forgotten. It is definitely better than staying together like 2 strangers or worse, with conflicts! "


powder, what do you think abt the idea of either 2 condo units on same flr at less prime area or 2 hdb units at more prime location? in terms oflong term investment next time, rental yield may be lower at less prime locations but net profit may still be better as price psf is much lower compared to prime location.

 

[blalways]

HI caramel_bath,

If today is ur mother alone,will u still want ur privacy?Will u let u own mother live alone,if u also dont have any brother & sister?

 

[clipperjunk]

this boils down to the parents really, mine and my in laws insisted on not living with the children simply because they created their own independent lives and also want to avoid possible conflicts....but if you have a clinging elder, then its altogether a different story....i've lived with my parents and grandmother under the same roof when i was young....the conflicts were there and while not unbearable, i certainly do not want it happening to me...

 

[susanna_low]

Perhaps her MIL prefer to live alone too? Like my auntie's MIL, she rather stay by herself than with her 2 sons, her reason is she doesn't like to look after kids and also do additional housework and cooking.
Whenever she wants to see them, she will make her own way to their house or they went to visit her during the weekend.
For my hb's 70+ grandmother, she prefer to stay by herself to the extend that she went to HDB and applied for a 1 room flat herself and move out from her single son's 4 room flat!
Occasionally when that single son went to stay with her during weekend, she kept nagging and nagging, saying that he waste her electricity, staying up whole night and watch tv, very noisy and interrupt her sleep etc.
Nowadays when she's free, she will go downstairs and chat with the neighbours and also participate in weekend activities organised by the neighbour committee.
My hb and I will bring our ger to visit her or bring her out for dinner too.

 

[caramel_bath]

to Bling.

with regards to yr question - if my mom is alone alone...

Not easy, but i demand my husband & myself to be fair to both sets of parents.

If my mom also alone, i'd be scratching my head trying to find a good place with 3 units on sale on same floor or same vicinity.

 

[powder]

hi caramel, sori didn't see tat the last paragraph was addressed to me...

well tat's an tough question to be honest... i have been pondering that same question abt 2 condos or 2 hdbs for the longest time... tat's how i arrived at the duplex after seeing a few layouts that are perfect... but my problem abit different from yours... i want mum to stay with us, she was thinking of staying alone and giving us our own space... hehe. of cos i have a kid, and i always believe in the grandparent/grandchild bond being good... so abit different, yet we're thinking similar on the property... i guess most sporeans will ponder this question... hehe

anyway if starting out with average finances, it's better to do HDB for sure... cos at the early stage, what we want is Savings, not Returns... it's only later stage of our life when we're financially better-off that we look at Returns instead of Savings... so these are the 2 key-words u need to look at, and also which is something that is more Viable for u NOW.

if u're high-risk, go for Returns... if u're adverse, go for Savings... HDB for sure gives u more savings... cos purchase price and maintenance is low and u just pay 1 season parking. buying 2 condos, just maintenance alone will set u back by abt $700 a month for 2 units... unless u have alot of spare cash then tat's still ok... but becos u're gonna LIVE in it and not rent out, maintenance is something u can't cover back.

beyond both, my number one rule is Location. and that means Prime... anything suburban i dun recommend... if looking into the future, then Location should be number 1.

i do not know your financials, but i assume it should be above average. so holding power should be there... personally, for investment pty - i just stick to investment purpose... meaning i buy and rent out... without thinking of staying there... as for places i buy to stay, it must have some value in it in the long run... so for now i'd advise on HDB instead.

the only Pro of a condo is that u can buy 2 units next to each other, than in future knock thru to form a bigger unit (varies with developer)... tat's one of the reasons why the condo appeals to me... it's like now i buy 2 x 2BR units, then later when mum really old and kids bigger i can knock thru... then later in life when me and wife retire, we can put back the wall and sell off 1 unit for retirement. of cos this provided u intend to stay same place for the rest of your life, else the plan won't materialise...

 

[alkalime]

can i share my 2c worth?? here its goes ...

caramel, i think u will need to discuss with your FH abt your "thinkings", what if he insist of staying together with his mother? then both of you will end up quarelling again?

i am in the exact situation, my bf is a only child and his dad passed away sometime ago. at first, i also cannot take it and to stay with his mother, so everytime quarrel loh.

then my mummy started telling me to take this as a piece of mirror. if i start to love his mother, he will love me more, if i treat his mother well, next time my kids also will treat me well.

anyway, my bf is a very responsible person. he definately won't leave his mother alone. sometimes it really piss me off when we go for short trips, his mother also want to go. in 1 instance, his mother last minute cancel her attendance due to work committment, then my mummy called and say she wants to follow. i said ok immediately. after putting down the call, i reflected for a while.. why his mother go i so uncomfy and when my mummy goes i so easy-going?? abit bias but afterall we are human beings mah.. so i try to be more balance nowadays lah.

no harm staying together, although there may be some small personal habits which you cannot stand, at least my bf won't feel "squeeze" by everyone right.

just have a discussion with your FH first. See what is his feel, if he don't violently objects staying side by side, then you are lucky! i just don't want you to pin so much hope by finding houses/options then in the end ended up quarreling which is not healthy esp at times when you both are discussing for wedding plans.

cheers

 

[caramel_bath]

Alkalim. my HTB knows & agrees with my reasoning that 2 mistresses (ie his mom & me) to a house leds to conflicts easily.

Powder, i told my HTB abt the Penthouse concept & he loves the idea. We will start hse hunting next yr & explore further the options of buying 2 house vs buying penthouse.

 

[alkalime]

wow.. that is so lucky of u ...

 

[powder]

hey tat sounds great... glad to add an option... well once u start looking, all the designs will come to your head then easier liao...

 

[octo]

Apart from Penthouse, you may want to check out the HDB executive masionatte. Its also 2 storey and there is usually 1 room downstair (depending on the design of each district).

Good Luck in your house hunt!

 

[kazataza]

i think what your FH thinks might not be what our MIL wants....

if you don't mind staying with your MIL, you can still buy our own apt and leave a room for her. Let your FH tell your MIL that you guys had left a room for her and she can move in with u guys anytime she wants...

of cos, if u have "ground rules" that you wish your MIL to observe, you might want to tell your FH to convey the same message to his mother as well...

your hb and you may think your MIL wants to stay with u..but u will be surprised that sometimes, the elderly thinking now is very "modern"...they understand that newly weds need their private space and won't want to move in with you. if that's the case, visit her more often and show her concern