What do you think - can't let go

slog

New Member
I need advice for a friend and as my own emotions are involved (because of her), I am unable to advice with clarity. Forumers, please assist.

She met this guy in 1997. He cheated on her in 2000. From then on, the r/s turned abusive - she would shout at him in public and even hit him. There were many ugly fights but there were good times too. In 2006, he cheated on her again and told her that he wanted to leave her for this other woman. When she agreed, he backtracked and promised to end the affair. They were loving for a month or so, then she found out he never ended it. He told TOW that he had broken up with her and he told her he had ended it with TOW. When she contacted TOW, everything came to a head and he avoided her altogether. She found someone new and started to move on with life but he said he wanted a chance to come back and try and she loved him and gave him that chance. They even attended Marriage Preparation Course together.

However, in December, she found out that he had met TOW behind her back in November and he claimed tt they were just friends. She was furious and yelled at him. He told her he was suffocating and needed time away from her. He refused to see her for 1 week and when he did, he was filled with resentment over her criticisms, her hitting him, her sarcasm, her temper. She decided to leave him alone and give him time. In Feb, she decides to get together with the other guy and he tells her he wants to settle down now with her. She agrees because she loves him and the moment she does, he refuses to meet her anymore or spend time with her. She gets a call from TOW telling her that TOW thought she had a chance with him and had asked him to commit to her but he claimed to only love her and turned down TOW. He told TOW to move on with her life but he still refused to spend time with my friend or initiate seeing her or contacting her. She told him she would wait for him to see if his heart would lead him back to her. So when she called him recently, he asked her why he should commit since she was willing to wait and also dropped all efforts to contact her on his own initiative or spend time with her life before. Before he walked out, he would fetch her to work and have dinner with her and spend time together. Now he has no idea what he does after work and he tells her that he does not like being questioned. She thinks there is another woman and when she asked him, he said his feet is in 3 or 4 boats. She asked him why and he said the boat he is waiting for is not there. She said she knows she is the boat but he still refuseed to commit. It is as if he likes the taste of freedom after being committed for 10 years and nothing will ever make him give this up. He is in the entertainment industry and likes going to pubs and clubbing and drinking. He says to her and to TOW that they cannot do without him and he is irreplaceable and anytime he wants, he can walk back in their lives.

My friend has decided that she wants him. FYI, she is not married, is attractive, less than 30yrs and earns more than he does. She is also articulate, intelligent and comes from a fairly wealthy background (lives on private etc). He on the other hand, has no savings (lost most of it in the stock market), comes from a 3 room flat (he likes to hit out at her that he isn't good enough), and his paper qualifications are not as good as hers. But that isn't the point. Point is my friend spent a lot of time and effort helping him save money, ensuring he puts asides his monies and was there to support him as he upgraded himself throughout the years.

He seems to have forgotten all of that and accuses her of only doing stuff for him that would benefit her (ie ensuring he gets a higher paying job) and he totally neglects her and calls her or contacts her as and when he pleases. He has thrown away all concept of responsibility and commitment and appears to be a changed person.

She has asked him to come back on his terms except that she demands honesty and faithfulness and commitment. The reason why they kept quarrelling was because he cannot stop lying. He has a lot of secrets and says she cannot touch his hp or check his things. She cannot live with that yet she cannot live without him. She has been suicidal and depressed.

For a guy like that, is there anyway to make him turn around?
 


slog

New Member
Hey powder

Thanks for replying! Dun think u remember me...I used to post a lot more in 2005.

There is just A and B involved and the other woman is TOW.

What is your initial feel on this guy?
 

powder

Active Member
anyway dude,

it's nature for Horses to be wild...

it's typical for pple (especially girls) to think they are the Special One who can tame horses...

it's Abnormal for a lady to keep trying to tame a wild horse that wants to remain a wild horse...

but doesn't this story just repeat itself in Almost 90% of the threads here of similar origin? i can even throw u the reasons why... been together so long, childhood sweetheart, inside he's really a nice guy, becos he had a bad childhood where his father..., becos he was betrayed out by his 1st gfren before... THE DAMN LIST GOES ON.

u ever see a Lion-trainer hug his lion to sleep? nomatter how domesticated u make your Lion, u cannot sleep in the same room with it. if u cannot sleep in the same room with it, why sleep with it or even expect to sleep with it?

what sucks is that u use your One chance in Life, to give Many chances in Love, to end your One Life in One huge disappointment. and your One Life Ends... before u know it, u'll be 40.
 

powder

Active Member
yup i rem u... your nick abit hard to forget leh...

if u like her, u can just be a fren and have no expectations of her... if u like her and that's why u're still frens with her, it'll only be a matter of time before u feel frustrated and have to let go... depends on your character too.

if u're the constant listening ear... u might have to cease your frenship at one point becos u unwittingly become the strength she draws from - to pursue with this guy. Not u. and becos u stay, she will always be going around in this circle... so if u really care for her - u might have to withdraw from her one day... sounds complicated, but try to think deep into things.

pple who love with a need to possess... do not really understand the many facades of love, but only confuse themselves with the social expectations of love. sometimes love means Letting Go... some parents learn this too late and end up with spoilt kids of poor characters, some girls learn this too late and end up with lousy unmotivated husband of poor habits, some guys learn it too late and end up poor...
 

slog

New Member
Dear Powder,

What you are saying is that I should tell my friend to give up and move on? Not waste any more time giving any chances?
 

slog

New Member
Erm Powder, I am a girl
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I can understand her feelings of not wanting to let go because he has always been committed to her for 10 years - maybe he had other small discreet affairs behind her back but he has always been there for her, evenings after work and weekends. Now he has withdrawn all of that. She practically begs him to see her and he tells her whenever he feels like, will let her know. So she waits and waits.

She even asked him if he will come back to her and if she should wait and he said wait. But till now, there is no indication of him coming back. What can she do? I know you said can't tame a wild horse but he has not always been wild. It is only recently he has chosen to be? Do people change?
 

jolin2007

New Member
Slog

'small discreet affairs' should be a BIG enough reason for your friend to move on.

He didn't change. He cheated on her a few times over the ten years. That is consistent.
 

powder

Active Member
oh sori, it's been a long time, do forgive an old man... shucks, i think i'm getting old... u're from one of the HDB threads hor?

ok good thing u're not a guy who is walking beside her... otherwise very siong... but as a fren the same applies - i normally leave the frens who go around in circles over the same problems, cos everytime i'm listening to the same thing... not becos i dun wanna listen, but i think in the long run - your listening ear helps keep them in the same circle. and they breed their dependence on the guy thru u as a proxy...

but seriously, u wanna assure her that the guy will change? or will not change? What do u believe? cos u should advise her according to what u believe as the most likely scenario...

u know, i suddenly remember Joy Luck Club... maybe u should buy the dvd and force her to watch...

i think some girls really need to learn how to Value themselves... if u dun value yourself and have to beg a guy... pacify a guy EVEN if he is so obviously the asshole, no guy would respect u. a wife who doesn't respect herself? there's a fine line between Self-sacrificial and not know one's worth. sometimes pple say they do it for love, but really - isit love or isit a lack of self-respect?

the prettiest girl, the most famous celebrity - can have this problem.
 

slog

New Member
Yup that I am.

I don't know what to believe...I know the guy. He seems to be very devoted and reliable. So it is a big shock to find out that he cheated twice. He always pick her up after her outings, send her flowers and she adores him. Yes, they fight and she hits him out of frustration and she can't stop checking on him (no trust) but she really can't let go and move on.

she already told him she is prepared to give in to all his terms - give him freedom to practice his religion (the difference in religion is one of the reasons for the big fights), won't check his hp, will not fight with him nastily, and even offer him financial security and herself. But at the end of the day, he still decide to pull away and not come back. It became worse after she offer all that to him. W

when she decide to be with another guy, then he decide to come back and woo her back. She gave him a deadline to commit (somewhere in March), does that work?

How does the bargaining power shift? How do guys think?

U are thinking my friend has lost all self-respect?

Hi Jolin2007, he "cheateD" on her by flirting on the net with other women etc and meeting them for coffee but he blew a fit at her when she questioned him. He said so long he never say he want to leave her and he come back to her, what is the big problem? He advised her to close an eye - he said the only 2 serious affairs were in 2000 and 2006 - where he was prepared to leave her.
 

jolin2007

New Member
Slog

How can he take fidelity lightly? So your friend should be grateful to him that he decided to stay with her instead of TOWs?

I agreed with power. Your friend has lost self-respect.

She has also lost all her self-esteem.
 

carrot_carrot

New Member
Hi powder,

He is not married. Why did u cite a 30%? On what basis u draw that line?
Reason for the wait is that he is single and unattached and we were once together.
We got together too fast without really understanding each other.
So I wanted us to have another go in getting 2 know each other better and along the way to assess are we really able to build up a relationship.

Erh......his NO is he never said NO of not wanting to work it out. What I had written in earlier post was ‘some sort of reply which is really open ended‘ though is definitely not a NO.

He knows for a fact that I wanted us to work it out but each time I ask him, he will never reply a NO answer yet I don’t see any action from him.
If his action is a NO then why can’t he simply say no.
What is this guy thinking?
Why are there such people around, selfishly, refusing to give a clear answer?
 

powder

Active Member
Slog,

relationship need to be so 贱 meh?give him money, give him this give him that... and not even getting anything back. hmm...

honestly my only advice to to get out of it. i 过ä¸äº†è‡ªå·±è¿™ä¸€å…³ to advise otherwise. i do feel it's harmful to both to have such a 'relationship'.

to be honest, your fren is no angel... she's kinda a control-freak who found out she cannot control this guy. she will most definitely break her promise and check his handphone becos she can't help himself... both their Natures dun match, i dun understand why some pple cannot be single? why die die must be a couple? both are unsuitable for relationships leh...

tat should be the basis for your advice... not how to get them together. how do u bring two pple together when u dun believe in the union?
 

slog

New Member
Hi Jolin2007, you nailed it, I think. Self-respect and self-esteem - how is it someone who is a professional like her who is attractive (gets lots of male attention) and earns a high pay and comes from a wealthy background and is intelligent and successful can lose all self-respect? She has been getting anxiety attacks - living from message to message by the guy. She even beg him to return, apologise, and tell him that she is willing to share TOW with him. But now, he dun even want TOW or her. Seems he has found a new toy. Do you have any advice how she can recover her self-esteem? Should she seek professional help?

Powder, you are very experienced - I think you may have a point. She managed to control him for so long by throwing temper and threatening to walk out. All along he always beg her to stay, say he is sorry etc. now he tell her why should he short change himself he can get better treatment elsewhere then he walks out on her...she now offers her earning power and family wealth for him but he refuses to bite and commit still. It is very sad for her. I agree with you that their natures dun match...what kind of guy should she be with? what kind of girl does he want - the kind who will close 1 eye?

she believes in the union - she loves him, says can't live without him and has been thinking of suicide if he really does not want to return. there is another guy who loves her and she says she can't love him. the guy is rich, and intelligent yet her eyes and heart is only for the first guy. as a guy, what is your advice for someone like my friend? I am clouded by my own feelings for her pain so i can't advice straight.
 

inex

New Member
Slog - your friend needs to WAKE UP. and she need to do it for herself.

Just ask her, is she happy now? does she want to play detective forever? get her heart broken every now and then?

is he worth it?

powder - I doubt her frn is really unsuitable for relationship. Trust had to be built. Since that trust was betrayed, thats why she could no longer trust him, thus all the checking.

still that only goes to emphasis the futility of the relationship.

trust is no longer there, is there any point in continuing it?
 

powder

Active Member
someone who is willing to give her family wealth to a scumbag, who is willing to commit suicide for a scumbag... suitable for relationship?

i guess her family will eventually pay for it.

well Slog, can't really offer advice, can only guess the source being that this guy is one thing she can get. i guess to court her, a guy has to be pretty mysterious, interesting, play hard to get, bed her, play hard to get, ignore her, play hard to get, and simply treat her like a spare tyre...

when things come too easy in life, u treasure those tat dun come easy. this guy may be much smarter than most think... he is doing all the right things to keep her coming back.
 

octo

New Member
Hi Slog,

"She has asked him to come back on his terms except that she demands honesty and faithfulness and commitment."

I think your friend knows what she wants. But she just CANT accept that she CANT get what she want. Thats why she is struggling so hard.

The fact that she had also contacted that those TOWs, show that he was really unfaithful to her. Its not some hearsay etc.

"he said his feet is in 3 or 4 boats"
"he said the boat he is waiting for is not there"

The guy already make it so CLEAR that he is not going to be like what she want. And she is not the one for him, meaning he had lost his interest in her already. The cards on the table are pretty obvious now. Its time that she moved on.

As a friend, isn't it obvious that this guy is not a 'good' choice at all. Besides the 2 serious affairs in 2000 and 2006, there are still 'small discreet affairs behind her back'. Gosh! Do you mean you still encourage your friend to strive and go for this guy?!?!

For your friend's sake, pls give her this very important wake call now. Not to wallow in sorrow with her and encourage her to give up her self esteem for such a guy, just because its a 10 yrs relationship.
 

angel8ish

New Member
"how is it someone who is a professional like her who is attractive (gets lots of male attention) and earns a high pay and comes from a wealthy background and is intelligent and successful can lose all self-respect?"

Someone who seems perfect, who always get what she wanted. Probably has never tasted rejection and failure. That's perhaps why she is taking it so hard...
 

inex

New Member
powder - aiyah where matters of the heart are involved, most people hardly behave with rationality. She's not the first to kill herself for a man, but that doesn't mean she don't deserve another shot at happiness if she wakes up.

that is of course IF she snaps out of the situation.
 

powder

Active Member
of cos i dun think she deserves misery... she's not ready doesn't mean she doesn't deserve it for the rest of her life. at the present moment i dun think so...
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
slog,
welcome back to sgbrides. it has been a while.

Often, when one chooses to remain in the relationship, no matter how lame it is, they will find reasons. As friends, we can only remind and guide them back to reality. But, we cannot tell them what is the right or wrong thing to do. Its difficult but we cannot stop or shield them from the hurts.
 

slog

New Member
Dear Milo, Powder, Jean, Shir and Angel8ish,

Yesterday there was a huge blow up. The guy was furious my friend had told TOW about him clinging on to my friend. He told my friend that she needs to show respect for what he wants and not to check on his things. He told her that TOW had kept calling him and questioning him and he had enough of TOW and told her to move on. He told my friend that if she followed the same path, he would not pick up her calls too and not see her. He told my friend that "WHOEVER DARE TO DEFY WHAT I WANT, I WON'T GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT"

My friend said that if he had told TOW to move on, could she move on too. He said it is up to her. My friend asked if she could see him in the evening as agreed and he claimed that he had something on. She asked him where exactly she stood with him and whether he could postpone that appointment. She pointed out that she would be gone overseas for 2 weeks and he could see that appointment as long as he wanted. He said no. She begged him. She said please and asked him how often she said please. He said "as and when you feel like". She asked him to please please consider again and the answer was no, he would only see her after he was done with the appointment and as and when he felt like it.

It is very painful for my friend to swallow when for 10 years she has stood by his side and he stood by her side - lunch, after work, dinner and time cuddling together. Weekends together. Now she always ask him out and he tell her "let you know later" but he never sees her. Only for lunch. She does not know what he does in the night after work. She asked him once why he didn't pick up the phone in the night and he said he was sleeping. She drove by his house but the car was not in. When she asked him, he said he was not her boyfriend anymore and he could do whatever he wants and he is only responsible to himself. He said in fact he was sleeping in another woman's house. He is only available after 11.30pm most weeknights....and yesterday when he told her that the dinner appointment was more important than her, she totally broke down.

She told him that she did not want to see him till end of the March or hear from him. He apologised and called back and sent messages that he was sorry but in the message he said that if she forwarded the message to the other woman, he would never message her again.

My friend called him this morning and said that since he had given her the option of moving on, she would take it. He seemed totally disinterested, according to her, he just grunted. She then swallowed ALL her pride and asked him "is there anything I can do to make you change your mind?". He said "yes".

Shir, she is not the one for him but he told her that he loves her and just want her to be like "them" ie. don't criticize him, close one eye, give him freedom, be the trophy girlfriend.

He told her before that she is an expensive LV wallet he wants to keep at home (cos she offers him financial security and devotion) but he needs to go out and touch and feel other cheap wallets.

He has never been that way before - he has always been devoted. Suddenly, he is filled with himself, very abusive when given so much power by her over him.

OMG, my friend is really distraught and cannot accept that the past as she knew it is not going back and the man she loved has become a monster.

What can I do please? What can I tell her to do? She has already offered everything, begged him, and he wants it on his terms of freedom still. who can accept such terms?
 

powder

Active Member
how abt screwing the hell out of her and reminding her of those who really love her... and she's a selfish nut disregarding those who love her for 1 joker who doesn't.

fella already tell her that she's an atm, a vase, a person he treats as a possession whilst he goers out and screw around... if that dun work, nothing will.

need to advise more? a forumer already pointed out something i believe is the crux... "Someone who seems perfect, who always get what she wanted. Probably has never tasted rejection and failure. That's perhaps why she is taking it so hard..."
 

slog

New Member
Powder, yesterday, she was crying hysterically and when she got home, she was so sick, throwing up and running a fever. Her younger sister prayed for her and that really touched her. She said she will not kill herself for him. Cos she realise there are people who love her.

She is not married but was only engaged to that guy. 18 to 28 years together but whatever he do behind her back, she did not find out except for the 2 big affairs. She has already gone on 2 holidays with him last year (Australia and Hongkong) to try to mend back the relationship after the affair and even attended marriage preparation course with him.

Then she finds out he actually met up with the girl behind her back and she kicked up a big fit. She was harsh with her words and that was when he walked out and told her he was shortchanging himself for her. He said he can get better, someone who will appreciate him, love him and give him his freedom. He said for whoever he marry, he will be a devoted husband and father. He wants to settle down.

She isn't perfect - but she has always achieved whatever she wanted. And this time, all she wants his heart, his love, his devotion like before. She wants things to go back to what they were. She pleaded with him for this and he told her the past will only be sweet memories. He enjoys his freedom. She said she will wait for him and he says that it your problem, you want to wait, you wait, why should I commit?

Powder, this man is a horse who wants his freedom and he asks her why can't she just close her eyes since he will come back to her in the end cos he loves her?

She can't do that because when she gave him such freedom (without checking), he carried on an affair for 4 months with TOW and wanted to leave her. I think she is prepared to close her eyes now but what if he wants to leave again???? And TOW is still holding on to him.

She feels like she is now walking on a thin line - anything she says or does, may just push him to walk away and break contact with her. He has that much power over her. How can she live the rest of her life like that?

How can her suffering come to an end except to walk away from the guy? Is there really really no other solution?

The other guy who loves her is rich and intelligent but not so "caring" i.e. seldom message her or ask about her day but he is a religious man with principles and integrity (that is what she respects about him) and he wants to marry her. Her parents approve of the relationship as does his parents but her heart is not with this man. She only cares and thinks about the joker.

Powder, powder, and other friends on the forum, the joker is like a drug my friend must have. Nothing else, no other man will do. ;(

It hurts to see her lose all self respect and how she "Crawls" back to him each time....
 

octo

New Member
Slog, this is what I see the whole picture as:

Your friend's condition: "She has asked him to come back on his terms except that she demands honesty and faithfulness and commitment."

The guy's condition: "just want her to be like "them" ie. don't criticize him, close one eye, give him freedom,be the trophy girlfriend."

I would say, this is a totally mismatch. And since the guy had make it out so loud and clear that he cant make it to her criteria and she cant give in to his either. Then I guess it takes a no-brainer to know what should happen next.

And frankly, I strongly disagree with this "he has always been devoted." I dont think someone who had 2 serious affairs and 'small discreet affairs' over the years, is anywhere near to the word 'DEVOTED', not to mention the word 'always'. In fact, I don't categorise affairs as big/small or serious. An affair is an affair.

Let her know, talk is cheap. Its the action that shows. As much as he said "for whoever he marry, he will be a devoted husband and father", he cant even proved himself to be a devoted BOYFRIEND. So pls save the crap on the husband and father part.

Ask yourself honestly, is this guy really such a good catch for her? Will she be able to put 100% trust and confidence in him and their marriage, even he chose to come back?

I agree that 10 years is not a short period for a lady. But I don't think its a smart bet to place the next 10years on such a guy. At the age of 28, she is still young and many wonderful things can still happen. I believe you won't want to see her in this same situation when she is 38.

Its only when she let go, then she will see her real happiness. Pls help her on the path of recovery and to her real happiness.
 

powder

Active Member
actually Slog... and Honestly...

i'm not really gonna read too much abt 18-28, 10yrs, how much she loves him, sacrifice for him etc... What happened, What he did, what she did, blah blah blah... When u have too many pple listening to her, that's when she will repeat her story and relive the love thru the stories... THAT'S BAD.

point is - it doesn't change anything, does it? even if they get back, it's gonna last 3mths? then the same cycle all over again...

and that's just the thing... pple can't let go becos they dun want to. not becos they can't... they just wanna replay and stay there... and the rest of the pple around them have to suffer for it...

i can tell u honestly - Your listening ear is turning into a drug for her to keep this whole thing going... and the more u listen, the harder it gets for her to snap out of it... a listening ear is not always a good thing.
 

retrodotie

New Member
When u still have a little hope in yr heart u will never able to let go. Maybe when a gal will fully let go is when a gal's heart is fully dead ba...
 

slog

New Member
Oh dear. that is awful to hear, Powder. Bottom line for you is that she needs to walk out. Things will not change. The guy told her that much today - he said that with her temper etc, she is not what he wants and they will still fight. He said he can't forgive or forget everything she said about him. He is filled with bitterness and resentment towards her. It's over. I think it was over a long time ago except my friend couldn't accept it. He told her straight to take it that he has another girl, that he is someone else's boyfriend and to move on with her life. Finally it is clear. All the messages to her that he is miserable and lost the past few weeks...well, guess he isn't completely happy where he is either. Or maybe he is a guy who can love more than 1 woman at a time.

Hi Shir, this guy is not a good catch for her. He makes her weep, beg, persuade, he brings out the worst in her that is scary to see. She threatens, she hits him when he keeps lying, she can't stand his evasive answers and his endless questioning of her. She is prepared to put 100% trust and confidence in him but he told her today that he doesn't trust her and is scared things will repeat themselves - as in she will say nasty things to him when angry and even hit him again when she checks his things and finds out he is lying. He is tired of mending the trust between them. Full stop.

Yes, she is still young and she has a guy in love with her. Unfortunately she does not love the guy so she has very little tolerance for him. I think I should encourage her to love this new guy.
 

powder

Active Member
makes it sound like a sin to stay single... what's wrong with being single for awhile? must be attached constantly wan meh?
 

angel8ish

New Member
Slog, dont really know how to advise you. But I would like to share with you what I myself have gone through. I was like your friend once, until recently, albeit not to that degree of seriousness. Thinking back, I was glad I walked away with dignity and I hope you can help your friend to see the importance of doing that too.

It's going to be very frustrating in your shoes, as æ—观者清,当局ç€è¿·. I was not able to "see" the futility of it all when I was in the relationship until something happened to make me totally lose hope. So I agree with Retrodotie.

Just be there for her when this happens lo. There is only so much a friend can do. She has to realise the hopelessness of the situation herself, and to accept that one cannot always have what one desire in this world.
 

octo

New Member
"Unfortunately she does not love the guy so she has very little tolerance for him."

Slog, you said it all.

If this is the case, why do you still want to encourage her to love this new guy?

Like powder, I don't think its a must to be constantly attached. And most likely she is not in a right state to go into a new r/s now.

No matter how good this guy is seems/ sounds to be, if she is not in love with him, its gonna be a rebound which will hurts both parties.
 

slog

New Member
Dear Angel8ish, I am so sorry to hear of your situation. Something happened to make you totally lose hope...what must this guy to do my friend before she can SI XING totally? I want to get her to get a prviate investigator so that she can see some photos of him and another girl and then give up. Any comments for this? I am her friend, I can't stand by to see her in tears day in and out.

Dear Shir, you are right she is not in a right state to go into a new r/s. I thought that she must learn to love him so as to forget the old one. Turn her eyes from the old to the new...and forget the pain and start again.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Slog,

put is frankly to your friend.
What does she need and want in a partner. Obviously, he is not able to provide her that need. So, no matter how painful it is, the outcome is the same. This is a fruitless relationship. u drag for a lifetime or a year, it doesn't change a thing.

Only difference is how long she will live in self-denial. He isn't going to be the tame horse she wants and needs.
 

drx

New Member
ask the guy to have sex with another gal and let your friend see for herself. If your friend is able to accept it. Then your friend is truly without hope.

Looking at your friend I have only a few words for you. " No point talking so much to her "

She is a rich gal who always gets what she wants and she thinks that by crying and making a big fuss she can get it. Sadly life is not the easy going with gals like her.
 

angel8ish

New Member
Slog,

Whatever you do, if she does not want to snap out of it, she won't. There are just some things that we all have to experience for ourselves to grow up and learn.
 

binzz

New Member
Hi Slog, your friend may not know that she in fact does not love the guy, what she cannot take it is that she can no longer have the guy that she wanted and that she being so perfect can lose to someone else, i guess its just the ego thing hurting her. Just curious, have she ever seen TOW?

The things that you can never get are always the best!
 

teachild

New Member
Repost from duplicate thread:
Hmmm..can't advise much except dat tell ur fren to leave him before deciding on marriage..cos once u r in it, dats it - to leave is harder..especially if it comes to a stage where ur fren gets preggie..

I used to be in the same boat as her..except dat TOW came in after we were married for 3mths..been a lovey dovey couple before marriage for almost 8yrs, went thru so much before getting hitched and yet becos of an older "poor, divorced, sexy, single mother, scrambler chic lonely soul", my "big-hearted" hub fell for her and wanted to marry her and make her his bladdy 2nd wife (when he earns peanuts!!)cos he felt responsible for his actions towards her.. now TOW fell for another married man, oso she pitied me, left my hub - and now hub fretting whether his seeds sowed have "reaped any harvests"...

And why didn't I leave him? I wld if I'm not preg.. and perhaps cos he's my first dat a breakup is unimaginable.. but the bitterness and resentment is here to stay.. cos i was treated like rubbish during their mths relationship..he loved her son even... yet he neglected his child in me... and now he's back yet the negative emotions in me are neva gone.. even felt resentment towards his parents who love and dote on me...and i noe they feel guilty towards me afta wat their son has done to me.. but neva mind..i'm waiting to deliver and regain my life back.. we'll see... he wld have nothg if I were to wifdraw from our union..cos I'm smarter, bigger earner, definitely not ugly looking and most of our assets are mine...

U see, when anyone is in secret rship, lying is a normal thingy to do.. TOW and hub lied to me too when i confronted her and him separately when i first discovered their affair....juz so dat i wldn't feel hurt..but wtf..being kept in the dark made me feel like a fool....i can't check his stuff too so u see the similarity? Hub oso used to enjoy drinking, had many many gfs before me and oso a current thrill bike rider...tot he has repented and turned over a new leaf..hell!

Tell ur fren to leave fast... dun end up like me...swallowing bitter pill - being treated like rubbish altho he claimed to TOW dat I'm the perfect wife ( I have neva raised my voice at him, perform my wifely duties of cooking and serving him, being the humble wife he wants me to be..) and I mean the world to him dat he wld neva divorced me... Crap!He wun but I wld..
 

alcifertoh

New Member
I just done a brief run through of this thread.

Well slog, like powder mentioned ur listening ear is addictive to your friend.

Your friend can come to you for advice. You can share with her like the forumners here shared with you. At the end of the day it is she who wants to adopt the advice or not.

I think it's very clear with all the cards laid on the table. I think you mentioned hiring a PI and the guy proclaiming what he wants and such.

I know as a friend it's hard but you just have to let go. Thats what I experienced... being like a counsellor listening ear to my friends and watching them plunging into puddle and puddle of shit again till they learn their lesson.

I can safely say, your friend knows what to do actually. Just refuse to face it only. And the only way that she can get through it is to kenna one time jia lat jia lat.

If not even if they get together it will be a vicious cycle. I know of ppl who keep track of how many times they break patch break patch in a relationship.

Kinda funny I feel. Like watching a short flim dragging to a trilogy even though the ending is known.
 

alcifertoh

New Member
"makes it sound like a sin to stay single... what's wrong with being single for awhile? must be attached constantly wan meh?"

Powder bro, really got such ppl one leh.... haha I seen alot... cannot no bf or gf... will die one before they end a relationship, they make sure they find another one first before ending the current one.

Sounds like employment to me... find a job first before you leave the current one haha
 

powder

Active Member
unfortunately, having no break gives u little chance to reflect on yourself and the relationship, and u jump into the next and the next...

sometimes abit of time alone, be with frens and family... can go a Lonnnng way in helping us to assess and define our needs better.
 

alcifertoh

New Member
Yep... and one will constantly end up in the same mess again looking for rebounds after rebounds. No time to sort out the thoughts and such to figure what they want.

My ex was like that. After we ended she dived into another relationship. Then she called and told me she is with this guy who is very much like me. I asked her... you sure guys with my traits are what you are looking for? She mentioned she's not sure but she is happy. As I predicted, abt 2 years ended the relationship and now together with another guy same traits like us again -_-
 

powder

Active Member
i find tat i grow most during the period after each relationship ends... think it was very crucial to my eventual outlook.
 

slog

New Member
Hi Milo, yes, I guess it is futile and self-defeating. They r always quarrelling about the same things - honesty from him, his checking on her. Come back together, the problems are still there. Worse, he carries so much resentment towards her, very bitter and sarcastic...yet he loves her. Fascinating love-hate relationship.

Hi Andy, yes, she has never failed in getting what she wants - and now when all she wants is his heart, he takes it away. She already threw away all pride and self-respect - I've heard her begging, promising that she will accept anything if he will come back to her side.
sad.gif
Wealth evidently isn't everything. It is not enough to make this man stay with her when previously, he found financial security and devotion in her.

Hi Angel8sh, well, let's see what she is made of in the end.
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Hi binzz, the guy does not want her and TOW. He has got a new toy and this is obviously more attractive than TOW and her. He says he loves her etc wants to be with her, but his actions show that he is not willing to give up this new woman. I guess it is either she accept this or fight for what she wants...which will be futile in the long run.

Hi Teachild, I AM SO SORRY to hear of your situation. I really am. U have a baby to deliver and take care of. Be strong and be patient for yourself and for your child!

Hi HeiBeeHiam, the whole relationship is not healthy if keep breaking and patching back - quarrelling and fair fighting may be healthy but not this breaking and patching back process. It is tiring and drains the love away from each other. In the end, one party will leave for good. It is a foregone conclusion.

Hi Powder, yes, there is a theory that rebound relationships dont last. Esp when the heart is still with still the old guy/girl. My best friend's second bf left her to go back to his old girlfriend and she was devastated. For rebound relationships, more than 1 party gets hurt usually.

My friend is on a business trip...it is a good time for her to think what she can accept or can't. I think she had very long to think ...almost 1 year...and now she thinks she wants him. She offered everything but it isn't enough to make him come back.

She admitted defeat to the guy and told him she forgives him for leaving her and for giving up on the relationship. She wishes him well and decided to end contact with him. But of course, as usual, the moment she does that, he says he still loves her....

Dear forumers and friends, thank you for taking the time and effort to share and advice. I have given her the link of this thread.
 

itag

New Member
Slog

My feeling and take is neither love each other. They are addicted to the feelings that they once had, yet when their desire are "fulfilled" they fall back to the habits that hurt each other.

As I can see from the threads, this is like a "yoyo" relationship. Your friend has to recognized similar consequences in future if she repeats her decisions. She is solely in control of her decision (and her emotional needs largely).

Going into another relationship with the new guys , does her harm if she does not evaluate what she wants in a relationship. She needs to seek herself and grow from there.

You may be able to give advice, but as long she is not hit hard enough , she may not realize she is trapped. She is deluded and high probable she does not love the man- She loves her pride more than the man or she holds onto the deluded memories of the past.
 

bloodparrot

New Member
Powder

Posted on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 5:25 pm
Posted on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 5:49 pm
- Good insights to a man-woman relationship
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, ä¸æ„§æ˜¯ Advanced Member


Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 2:07 pm
- Not many able to reflect deeply after each breakup.. maybe becos they feel it's over.. no point thinking about it.. but I feel tt it helps in the next relationship..
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
slog, your friend is danger of self pity and indulges in her own misery. No amount of misery one experience can prove how deep a love is.

Powder, about taking breaks to reflect. A bit of the chicken and egg thing. If someone does reflects, he/she will not rush to jump into another relationship in the 1st place.

If we know clearly what we want and need, does it get this complicated?
 

powder

Active Member
well better to know what we want than to screw with another girl's life before leaving her cos things dun work out... and maybe vice versa if it's the girl leaving us... hehe
 

slog

New Member
Milo on the rocks - Yes, we can reflect what we want and what we need but unfortunately we don't always get these. And how long do we keep searching?

IT - very very valid point. The thing is the guy has stopped contacting her actively like before. Clear sign for her to move on as he already has. Nothing can be done. He has found what he wants and he knows that while he loves her,she is not what he wants. He wants a woman who can close one eyes, don't check his things, don't question him etc. Sigh. To think he used to be so devoted to my friend...how did his heart change so fast...
 


miloice

Well-Known Member
Slog,

if you know what you want, your selection should be consistent to reflect that. It isn't the case that she choosen someone that intentionally concealed his colors. He is a wild horse from day 1 and she is fully aware. She needs a tamed horse, why look for a wild one and feel so miserable that its wild? If it isn't what she wants, is she just settling for anything and then trying so hard to mould him into what she wants? Kind of ironic yah?

How long does she want to do that? Its many yrs spent already. Instead of asking how long do we search? She should be reflect how much time and opportunity she is wasting rotting away in her self misery.
 

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