Take up Personal Loan for COV?

thommy

New Member
yes, he's referring to new flats but think of it this way, with the no. of applications always few times oversubscribed for the no. of units on hand only, many has to turn to resale (like me) out of desperation/frustration.

End of the day, we are still being affected, albeit indirectly.
 


vios

New Member
don't make your resale purchase seems like bopian lah.... sounds so un-cherishable leh.
others wanna buy, also cannot.

should see it as a good financial decision (i hope you did!)
 

thommy

New Member
vios, mine's really bo pian sigh
sad.gif


I really hope so too, but I feel damn broke now
sad.gif
 

powder

Active Member
thomas, things which u cannot change due to market forces... accept them and work with them in mind... try to foresee the future if possible.
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
New flats are subsidised housing, guess one can't complain about the long wait. My, people actually complain that "the government fails to build enough new flats to meet demand" as if this is owed us.

If one decides not to wait, there are always other options - resale flats and condos, not forgeting rental.
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
Today's news has it that the government may considering imposing a quota on PRs buying resale flats, much like the enthic quota.

This may spur on a panic buying from PRs?
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
I still believe that COV will cool down later as it will come to a point whereby buyers will resist. If you are not in a hurry to buy or have not found a unit that you like, don't enter the market now.
 

powder

Active Member
i'm actually quite perturbed that pple are looking more and more towards the government for 'help' and intervention. to be honest, i'd like to think that such avenues should be more for those in dire need, rather than middle class... i feel that it'll affect the ability for the gov agencies to cater to the true-needy.

i think the gov has really spoilt us to the point where we expect them to cater to our every need, right down to the purchase...

i dun deny that the prices are high, but i also see abit of spending on luxuries - tvs, cars, watches, furnishings.. just to name a few. i'm more inclined to attribute the inability to Afford - to Poor/non-existent financial planning, throwing caution to the wind on spendings and basically choosing Wants that one can ill-afford.

i dun mean to burst anyone's bubble, but for middle-income pple - we have to First work for ourselves.. anything from gov is Bonus, NOT entitlement.
 

thommy

New Member
mascherano: in times like now, not very possible to find COVs in ur desired range unless its those super ulu units which are out of the way.
 

wanderfool

New Member
what i mean is 10k-12k for suburban area...must be realistic in one's expectation....if no budget then get ulu area la..simple as that
 

goldfishtee

New Member
hi guys, i got COV 18K for mid floor, 5 years old 4 room unit at bukit batok west ave 5. just signed the OTP last thursday.

personally i think i got a pretty good price of COV. if you can, wait for some more time before buying. i'm sure you can find even better COV. just stick to your budget, try not to take loan for COV.

cheers.
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
The Straits Times
6 March 2010

BUYERS of non-subsidised HDB resale flats must now occupy their flats for at least three years before they can sell, under new rules unveiled yesterday.

This is up from 2-1/2 years for buyers with HDB loans and one year for buyers with bank loans or no loan.

The move, effective yesterday, is seen as a government effort to curb speculative buying and selling of public housing.

Home hunters have expressed dismay in recent months that speculators may be pushing up HDB resale flat prices.

Property consultants said the move is set to nip speculation in the bud but is not likely to result in lower flat prices.

The move comes after an HDB study found that a growing number of flat owners were selling flats within three years.

In late January, National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan flagged a review by HDB of its rules, with a view to stamping out possible speculation.

In Parliament yesterday, Mr Mah said said more flat owners had been selling flats as soon as the minimum period was up, although the numbers were not large.

He added: 'However, if the trend continues, buyers who genuinely need housing could be crowded out.'

He was responding to MP Ang Mong Seng's request for a review of the one-year minimum period applying to those with bank loans or no loan.

'HDB flats are provided primarily for owner-occupation and not speculative profit or rental return,' said Mr Mah.

HDB said in a statement that the change meant demand would more accurately reflect interest from buyers who wish to occupy flats.

Different rules apply to subsidised buyers who receive HDB grants.

Home hunter Sofian Buang, 33, a loading officer, said: 'My biggest concern is getting a roof for my family, now that I have a daughter. I am looking for a resale flat to settle in, not to sell or to rent out.'

ERA Asia-Pacific associate director Eugene Lim said the change would remove buyers who wanted to flip HDB flats after a year. 'With a smaller group chasing after HDB resale flats, price increases will slow down,' he said.

Demand for resale flats outweighs supply so prices will still rise, but perhaps at a slower pace, said C&H Realty managing director Albert Lu.

Mr Steven Tan, executive director of OrangeTee's residential division, said the change would cut speculation but that the Government should look at private property owners buying HDB flats to rent out right away.

If demand is growing and fewer people choose to sell because they want to lease their flats out, prices will rise, he said.

Mr Mah said that of the 682,000 flats that are eligible for subletting, only 3 per cent are sublet, suggesting that most flat owners are buying their flats for occupation, and not rental.

Amid concerns of runaway HDB prices, other MPs yesterday raised questions, including a possible ban on some buyers.

'There is a populist suggestion that we should ban private property owners from buying HDB flats,' said Mr Mah. But if the Government did so, what about HDB owners buying private property, he said.

Most resale flat buyers are citizens who do not own any private property, he said, adding that there was no evidence that specific buyer groups, like PRs and private property owners, were driving up prices.

He said buyers who did not want to pay very high prices could walk away.

Some other key changes unveiled yesterday include allowing upgraders and those who downsize to apply for a second concessionary HDB loan. This could push up resale activity for smaller flats in the resale market, said PropNex chief executive Mohamed Ismail.

The HDB study found that last year, 9 per cent or nearly one in 10 resale flats sold had been owned for under three years. Between 2005 and 2007, the figure was just 6 per cent of sales.
 

powder

Active Member
the average sporean can be so myopic that they tend to exacerbate their own problems... and i'm surprised some moves are made to appease them... end of the day instead of working TOWARDS a home, they want it fast and they want it now.

this policy seems more meant to curb short-term speculation... but the speculation on HDBs is kind of moot... in any case, since it's harder to sell now, then it's even harder to find sellers... i dun know if it's gonna help anyone.

the simplistic view is to make less pple 'queue up' and compete... but it's not so wise to also kill the pple selling...
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
Powder, I agree with your views. The situation today is largely due to higher demand over supply of resale flats. Now that the government makes it harder to sell, it does nothing to the demand but will decrease supply further.
 

powder

Active Member
i'm just sad becos pple no longer seem able to Work WITH the environment, AIM for things, but they just want things now and fast... so they keep seeking the government to solve the environment for them... they keep seeking answers from government...

every generation will have their set of problems... our parents didn't have the transport & communications of today. they never made the kind of money we can Today and have the number of good-paying jobs we have Today.yet we still act crippled.
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
I actually thought that our public housing scheme is pretty good and the quality of public housing is a world best. In other markets, public housing is for the low income earners, and no such thing as buy-sell for profit. Quality is not there too.
 

mum_of_2_girls

New Member
Hi,

Now that sellers can only sell their flats after 3 yrs, there will be less resale flats in the market. New flats are always oversubscribe, Private properties so expensive and area unit so small.

I wonder where are the newly weds going to live and have children?
 

powder

Active Member
doll, yup our public housing scheme is very good, just that the rooms are so freaking small... anyway half the complaints are due to Choices. when i gave up selecting sengkang, i KNOW i gave up selecting sengkang... i dun PRETEND i have NO CHOICE. locals like to say they have NO CHOICE without actually exploring their choices... they just declare they have no choice and expect someone to do something for them...

-------------------------

Albee, i guess pple can do it like how we used to do it... stay with parents first, rent, accept avail flats. but of cos not everyone wants that so maybe left with nothing...
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
Powder, I really think that the government has a very comprehensive public housing scheme. Although I don't agree with all its policies related to public housing, overall I have no complaint. Not only do they build the flat, they also device a scheme to ease Singaporeans in the financing of their flats with government bridging loan and CPF grants. This is quite unheard of in other markets. It's a shame that Singaporeans grumble about public housing.
 

simpleman

Active Member
A lot of Singaporeans are choosy and abusing the systems. They should have a system to put people who reject repeatedly at the end of the queue.

Just like finding a job.. if we are not that choosy, we can land one.. For HDB if we want choice location, high floor.. not facing temple/mosque, near MRT and amenities and etc etc.. and yet ...

Or they can continue to complain and complain..

In the long term, it may be good to completely privatize HDB.. Government should just provide housing grant and subsidies based on income. But I can tell you, more people will complain if the government is doing this.

Or at least HDB will build only 3 room flat.. and leave the 3 bedroom apartment to be completely privatized.
 

powder

Active Member
yup, me too. my parents were recipients of the 20k flats, i'm also a recipient of the 200k flats, and my kids would prob be recipients of the 800k flats in time to come... so far no complaints. Prices are prices and i never really go thru life believing in gov-assistance for those able-bodied/able-mind. as long as i'm alive, i think it's mine to churn out.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
I beg to differ. Public housing should not be peg to market pricing. All these land are government owned. So what, its near MRT, or in mature estate, does it give the opportunity to make a huge profit from so-called public housing? Its a balloting system. Same reason why the COE is a total profiting scam. Balloting can be done without the need to appreciating the value like stocks. At the end, the number of flats and COEs allocated are completely controlled by the government anyway.

Its a worrying thrend in the appreciating pricing of public housing in comparison with the average wages of the common man. What is the mission for HDB? Provide affordable housing for all. The average joe doesn't happen to be without financial burdens. With shrinking and greying population, the young gen has an uphill financial burden. I really worry about our children generation.

Individually, no doubt, we should strive and improve. I'm not talking about being spoon fed, but as a nation, we need to care for the common man and the lower wages too.

If HDB is to go back to its initial mission, the focus is keep costs low instead of pushing the ASP simply by focusing on adding values to justify its increase. Does the common singaporean need and benefit from all the value? If they want more value, they can work hard to upgrade themselves with better housing. We lacked the option to buy a 3k Tata car and forced to take a min a Honda or Toyota. I wouldn't complain it to be small. It has to be to be low priced.
 

powder

Active Member
milo, i dun think HDB determines the price... it's the market forces... it has always been. If HDB sells queenstown NEW 4rm flats at 200k, do u think the sellers will sell at 300k? nope, it'll still be 500k.

HDB DOES provide affordable housing... it's just that they offer more options Now - EC/Pinnacle/DBSS types for pple who are slightly better off, and Dun Mind paying MORE for something better. it's multi-tiers now... i think HDB has moved forward by offering more choices for pple to choose.

pple must realise that in Life, if they want more options - they have to work for it, and not complain on the more expensive options. then who needs to work harder?

would u sell your current flat at a 300k if everyone is selling at 400k? who determines the selling price? it certainly isn't HDB. if they control the selling price at 350k for everyone... everyone will move to TP/AMK/Queens/B.Merah/T.Bahru/Bishan etc... then next complaint would be that since all pay 350k, why should they choose Jurong?

and suddenly pple who wanna sell those further places, have to drop their prices by 50-100k... then wouldn't that ALSO create a disparity in prices? wouldn't that also leave the central area with higher prices since the other places are asking for Valuation Minus 30k-40k? then u'll have CUV (Cash-Under-Valuation).

the average joe complains, but we need to assess if the average joe is even working hard and strategising his plans for a home. he can't just go, "i'm ready to buy, wah so expensive - i complain to gov".
 

simpleman

Active Member
Milo,

"Public housing should not be peg to market pricing. All these land are government owned. So what, its near MRT, or in mature estate, does it give the opportunity to make a huge profit from so-called public housing?"

Unfortunately, this is already happening. HDB got demolished and government simply sell the land to highest bidder

The case in point "Ascentia" on Alexandra. My ex-wife stayed in the HDB there. When it was demolished, they are being compensated 200K for a 3-root (almost 900 sq feet). This is about 222 per sq feet. Ascentia is now at 1200 per square feet. Ya, even with condo + better furnishing.. it is mindless to pay 5 or 6 times more.. Government is making money out of us from the land.

It is no longer serving its role. That is why HDB should return to basic. Just provide cheap and subsidize housing for those in need..

For the rest, leave it to the market forces and provide housing grant / subsidy based on income.





What I meant actually, HDB should go to its roots.. only cater for those really in need. Build the lower-end housing..
 

simpleman

Active Member
Actually I am not complaining about the market value of land.. it is a reality.. but since it is "market" value.. leave it to the market with least intervention.

Just concentrate on building cheaper housing for the poorer mass..
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Actually, I differing with the views that we have a comprehensive public housing scheme. We don't. We have a comprehensive up value up-graders scheme and nothing for the entry level.

I completely agree with your earlier statement.

"Or at least HDB will build only 3 room flat.. and leave the 3 bedroom apartment to be completely privatized."

HDB has became a biz competing with private in providing upgraders lower cost alternatives to private. Actually, I have no issue with HDB providing this. But, their core mission should remain catering for the masses affordable housing. The priority is somehow completely reversed. This is the reflection on the flaw of our sytems here. Its too biz driven. At the end of the day, its not just a numbers game. We cannot measure productivity by introducing levy and caping the operating costs. We shouldn't be blind to the issues that is impacting the common man.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Powder,

I know the pricing is controlled by the market. The question is why is it allowed to be so? And as sm pointed out, HDB are making big profits from their development too. We know they have a good margin. As mentioned earlier, its the same scam with COEs. The policies are encouraging such speculation. If public housing remains controlled, i.e. pricing is capped at fixed margin, would the current problem even exist with public housing?

There is always a market for low cos budget housing. But, the supply for this is clearly disappearing. It is only fair for the HDB grants to be peg with the value if they allow it HDB pricing to be controlled by the market. Just few yrs back, a 30-40k grant would mean a significant amt for the buyer. Now, its a joke. Its precisely because its multi-tier now, HDB has lost its focus. The basic tier is totally neglected.
 

simpleman

Active Member
Increasingly, you will see HDB reclaim old HDB in prime location.. and then government will tender out the land... this is unavoidable.. From a country development point of view, this is maximizing the use of land..

But at least use the profit to build cheap housing in other locations.. need not be choice location but accessible enough to MRT/bus/hawker centre etc etc..
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
Milo, if you want HDB to go back to its good old day role, it should only build three-room flats for low income earners like during our fathers' time. Back then there were lots of 1-room, 2-room and 3-room, and rarely bigger flats. No matter how big your family was, you were allocated a unit according to your income level. Despite that there were seven of us - three adults and four young children, my dad was only allowed to buy a three-room flat.

If the government did not relax some public housing rules over the years, people like you and me probably would not even get to buy a resale flat and had to go for private housing straight or join the queue for brand new flats (if we have not hit the income ceiling). For myself, I may be able to afford private housing but in suburbs only, which would defeat my purpose of staying near my mom.
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
"But at least use the profit to build cheap housing in other locations.. need not be choice location but accessible enough to MRT/bus/hawker centre etc etc."

Believe they are doing that. My SIL's nephew and wife belong to the low-income group (combined income less than $3K a month) and got a brand new three-room flat. Didn't we also hear that they are building 2-room flats in Tampines, against the will of residents at nearby "luxurious" flats.
 

powder

Active Member
oh milo,

i think they are looking at very basic housing, as in no-frills type. i trust they will have the necessary restrictions in place for this in the future... actually it's not like there isn't anything close... it's just that pple STILL hiam.
not forgetting the rental units, which i think they're also tightening on.

i ask u honestly, if all of us were back to 23-25yrs-old... with the availability of these no-frills cheap housing avail maybe in Tengah... do u see yourself, wifey, peers, frens, classmates -rushing to buy these places all of a sudden?

to me the answer is NO. i think pple ask for solutions based on their individual problems... and they ask for help. HDB needs time, they cannot spend millions to build white elephants which no-one wants to buy - after thay have asked for it.

we should not assume that poorer pple will buy simply becos a product is Cheap. that's poor assumption... when we think of poorer pple, we should not assume they live poorly... being poor is not wrong, but i can tell u more than half of poorer Folks are so becos of choice, not environment. they are poor becos of spending.

i champion helping the poorer folks, but i also know some pple just hide behind complaints and want help instead of helping themselves First.
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
I forgot to say that the price of my dad's three-room flat in Bt Merah area has swelled to over $310K on valuation alone! If we still insist that the government provides only cheap, basic housing, my mom would never have smelled the appreciated value of her flat today. She is not selling though. Is this really what Singaporeans want?
 

powder

Active Member
sm,

i think it's a case of getting caught in our local weakness - Complacency. yup, i think we're very complacent... we think the gov will help us in this that and expect gov to help us in this that.

alot of things happening this day and age... can be expected. we just need to pick up info as much as we can... 10yrs ago i already expected Strathmore area to be worth more... 5yrs ago i guaranteed to my frens that it will be the most expensive, Not tiong bahru.... (even tiong bahru if u explore, how can jalan membina be worth more than boon tiong?).

i am not smart nor a psychic. i am just Very Bothered to drive to different estates and get a feel of the profile, the daily living etc... tat's why i picked strathmore in 2001. having lived in HDBs from 1rm onwards, we have a good idea what we NEED.

actually the moment i turned 21 when i was in army, i applied for flat liao... with mum. i gave that up becos the drive to sengkang led me to feel that the prices were not sustainable at that time with the horrible support/amenities. we all know that HDBs are by default our biggest 'assest', and also the one that can appreciate the most - which most pple can afford. i was earning $615 as NSF and i still went ahead to apply...

do pple do all these planning nowadays? do they even realise that u have to start looking even before u can afford a flat? we Really should not penalise the gov or HDB for this and that whilst we "sit back, relax n enjoy" the movie til such we need to act in it.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
"would never have smelled the appreciated value of her flat today"

Do we really get to smell the appreciation? I buy sell high but still need to buy back at high price. That's why so many are always looking for ways to trick the system. Subletting illegally etc.
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
Aiyah, you did not get to smell the appreciation of your HDB property does not mean others don't mah.

As for illegal subletting, it's not rampant. Most HDB flats are bought for owner occupation. Even for people who do it, I would say do it if you dare or are desperate enough, and run the risk of having your flat confiscated.
 

kenturik

New Member
Singaporean are quick to complain. I really dun see government public housing policy is that bad. If you cant afford to buy then rent, if cant rent then stay with parents. If cant buy at prime area then stay in ulu Sembawang, just have to wake up a bit earlier that's all. Wat's really the big deal....
 

powder

Active Member
milo,

i think that some of the complaints are just complaints... it's like looking for a reason and plucking reasons from the sky. mr. Mah already gave some very low percentage for subletting, most of it is owner-occupied. he also gave several examples of pple who complained but were 'caught' rejecting their chance to choose - for various reasons.

for public housing, we should be glad to have a choice of estate, floor, flat-types, rooms... this is actually much better than Gov simply allocate a unit to us and we have ZERO choice.

ALSO, the idea that Location is impt, has been there before we're even born. Orchard Road has been there since as long as i can remember... so has Shenton Way. u could have decided to pick Location even when u were in primary 5, just that u weren't eligible to buy.

what i'm saying is that alot of Info have been there for us. but MOST pple - The Herd... are normally 3-5yrs behind, or they are 1 FULL cycle behind. pple have been making money from property before we're even born. so nothing here is new at all... it's just that in the last bull-run, pple actually Reaffirmed something they've always known but never bothered to take note.

those pple who get burnt in property are those who are the last to join, and the ones who tend to be greedy. they are also those who ONLY act, when many many ahead of them have already made money from it... it is like the bubble-tea pple who decided AFTER 2yrs to do bubble tea biz, after it has been re-affirmed that it's lucrative.

what i wanna say is Harsh, but True. the reason why some pple are Always chasing wealth is becos they often need proof that something can work... they are Always the last bird. this is reflected at work and in life... Housing is part of our life, they will be slow to housing too. and what happens after they are slow? they complain and get Gov to help... complains are free, so might as well try.

they blame ALL except themselves. pls note i was born in a 1rm Flat, without a spoon in my mouth, let alone a silver one. i simply work harder than most in everything from planning my life to working out my plans... i dun see a need to be sorry for making the right decisions whilst others just play and expect Someone else to take care of them.

if i can buy a 220k HDB on my single 4k pay... i dun see why 2 pple cannot buy a 400k HDB with a 8k pay with TWO sets of CPF contribution and TWO sets of CPF savings. if u dun have a high budget - just dun pick location, pick somewhere cheaper. my brother's first home is in Bukit Panjang...

the problem with pple today is - whilst they complain abt getting flats - they Also hide their real intentions... they ALSO wanna make money from it, including location, high-floor, etc etc. while i believe some pple have affordability problems, i also feel that it is more geared to their spending habits.

i see how some pple spend on TVs, PCs, Sofas, etc... i get scared. i see kids hanging at Starbucks with their designer coffee... everytime there's a Comex or any Fair of the recent super duper cheap sales - u see the crowd. is there a real need for Full HD TV or Blue-Ray? i watch cheapo DVDs on rental and buy display sets... and i'm earning what? 10times more than the average fella?

i feel alot of pple screw themselves, and after they've done that - they want Help. of cos there are the true-poor... these are not the ones who are writing to forum, they just live within their means.
 

powder

Active Member
maybe the last portion of my last post doesn't seem relevant, but i wanna point out the pple who complain... and the way they complain... i think the gov has been nice not to Expose these pple openly.

maybe we should start issuing Fines, Summons and considering it an Offence for pple to lie abt their chances... then we can make pple think before they try, instead of just trying for fun and hoping for some Lottery luck.

most of it is Self-inflicted woes.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
i don't see it as a rant or complain. I see it as a growing problem. Isn't it worrying that the public housing is growing in pricing way higher than the wages? If this thrend goes unchecked, why do we need public housing anymore? Do we wait till its too serious a problem before we identify the basic fact that the HDB pricing appreciation is clear not progressing proportional to average income of the average folks.

Do we really need HDB to provide the multi-tiers? The private sector is more than capable to provide for this demand if the right policies are in place to facilitate that. The HDB is taking the full monopoly in this sector and clearly profiting. I would really hope to see some transparency on how these profits that HDB gained from the up market developments are used to offset and truly benefit those that needs it. I cannot help but question on how subsidarized are public housing. What is really so difficult to maintain the basic no-frills type housing. As with anything, u want it cheap and basic, the alternative and value would be less. We have so many higher and mid value stuffs. Is the demand for no-frills housing really such a minority? Back in the 90s, the HDB have came to the conclusion that the demand for 3 rm flats are history. How wrong was that perception.

All these lift upgradings etc, the general public has totally no visibility on how the quotes and budget are worked out. Its all big budget projects with big figures channeling big resources from public funds into them. But, we have complete blind faith in the policies without even thinking if all these are needed and resources spent truly cost optimized. And somehow, these question are completely put off as 'complains'.
 

powder

Active Member
let's put it this way... if there was no public housing, wat's the Only alternative?

pause to think....

Good, now look at the price of public housing and u tell me if it's affordable at half or upto 1/5 the price of private housing.

what more is needed?

now i throw u a no-frills 3rm at sembawang at 250k. Would u buy?

assuming u can afford the 250k flat, but u cannot afford a 1mil condo... but u want something abit better than the 250k flat... what's your alternative? - NONE.

and assuming everyone pays 250k for sembawang... when they run out, new towns will be picked. maybe AMK, then bishan, then queenstown... where u think everyone wants to pick with their 250k? assuming when pple wanna sell, and pple wanna buy... what prices do u think those closer to town will command? all still 250k?

slowly but surely - a market will be formed. the market IS the market. it is determined by many factors including convienience and desirability...

i bet u that sooner or later, u'll be looking at private.... it's in our blood to upgrade.

IF u are fighting for the poorer folks... u should not base on the assumption that they will simply accept wat's shown to them... cos like u and me - they want to choose Too.

is public housing Price really a problem? i think u're expecting a charity from HDB. and u should not just look at Houses... while it's true that That has gone up... historically, property Always has, particularly in our small little country.

if u expect low cost, then obviously u're looking to make money without actually working for it. if HDB sells a 4rm at 250k and u buy... and 5yrs later it's worth 400k - the new generation of buyers will complain too rite? and u as seller, will u Give up your 150k profit the way the Gov/HDB has given it to u so willingly?

why then do u demand that HDB passes on the profit to u... when it was in your every intention to Earn money from your HDB. unless u tell me that ALL of us are only interested in a Shelter and willing to sell at the prices we bought with maybe 10% coverage... then YES, i can agree.

When push comes to shove - i trust HDB to do more for sporeans as a whole... than for HDB to pass the profit to individual sporeans - and ask individual sporeans to help ALL sporeans. as far as i'm concerned - i'd rather HDB hold 600million, than 1million pple to hold $600 each to GIVE when time comes for our nation to pull together. cos the 1million pple would have spent the money on a new TV or car liao. (figures plucked from sky purely for illustration)

but i can tell u that 90% of pple buying their HDBs - they ALSO EXPECT to sell at higher prices. so u might as well ask the gov to give everyone 100k after 10yrs, cos that's what u're expecting - not just a Flat at cheap prices, but a cheap flat which u can sell for a high profit. BTW, our parents would have benefited so actually the money comes back to us, if not, we get the shelter... even tho it's not all of us.

and what did u do to access the right to that? NOTHING = merely complain and demand it as a spore citizen who did fcuk-all for yourself, but expect handouts from the gov. and then u curse and swear...

sporeans also migrate and buy homes in Australia/Malaysia/Thailand - and drive up the prices in those places. end of the day what did Their gov do?
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
hi bro,

don't think we should be talking in the context of upgraders at all. I do acknowledge the value that HDB is bringing in. But again, I see a total monopoly in that market.

What is the goal of public housing? "if u expect low cost, then obviously u're looking to make money without actually working for it". I disagree with that suggestion. Its an unfair statement. Here I'm addressing on the growing disparity and its effect to the entry levels. It has nothing to do with trying to make a fast buck from it. What is so difficult to provide no-frills housing and implement policies that prevents abuse. In the real world, we cannot use a generic product to address all market. No matter how much value an iphone brings, the market for low end prepaid cannot be addressed with a mid or high range offer.

All these talk about improvements and upgrade. Shit happens in life. What happens if all your retirement plans and eggs in several baskets flopped and you are too old and weak to stay employed? Is there any alternatives for you? There is none.

When you add value, for sure, it costs something. But the basic package is like a state of the art car coming with all the modern technology where the basic consumer doesn't want. You can sell to the consumer on how much value these are but its useless to this group of consumers. They don't need nor want to pay for these stuffs. There is no offer for such level. We cannot ignore the poor, they will grow to resent the society and we just discount their issues and unhappiness as 'complains'. The policies made by HDB assumes everyone will and always upgrade. Clearly, its not the case.
 


powder

Active Member
i'm surprised u dun think upgrading shuld be in context... that basically brings us back to communism, equality regardless of merit, and equal distribution of wealth, doesn't it? that basically goes against everything we built our country on isn't it? we're taking 2 steps back...

the disparity is always gonna occur... in everything in life - to cater to different groups. handbags prob started as woven baskets, then it evolved with new materials, designs, and then came the brands... u have a $5 handbag to a $5,000 handbag - gazillion choices. handphones started all around 1.5k, the Huge dai-gor-dai, then the etacs, then the ericssons... prices dun differ much, then the breakthru in technology/production, now u have 7eleven with $58 ones, and Vertu/Tag Heuer with $14,000 to even $140,000 ones...

this IS part of life. have u not upgraded nor thought of upgrading Any of your posessions? i think it's dangerous to suggests that pple are happy with the bare minimum simply becos u think they are.

even poor pple upgrade... Personally, i think we try to think too much for the poorer folks, and then some idiot is gonna use them to serve his own agenda... becos he wants to get it at 'poor-pple prices'.

actually the ones complaining are Not the poorer folks, it's the middle-class.

bro, i am not a "what happens if" person... there's many insurance products to cover the "what If" so i dun talk abt what if scenarios. with education - we have learnt to cover that... everyone should. Idiots dun and idiots assume they'll be healthy forever... pple who dun cover themselves are pple who dun plan for the future. pple who dun plan for the future are pple who expect Gov to take care of them, they are the same ones who complain when they are priced out (which NOBODY is really priced out).

i am fairly confident that if u had a modest 300k budget, i can find u a flat by saturday... NO-FRILLS - u standby your money, i nominate the flat to u, u dun choose, just sign.

unfortunately when it comes to no-frills - pple will go complaining on the condition of the flat, the level, the old lifts etc etc.

u can choose to believe there isn't Choice, or u can choose to believe that pple Want choice, but they dun wanna take responsibility for NOT MAKING a choice.

"What is so difficult to provide no-frills housing and implement policies that prevents abuse."
- nothing, when that happened, pple chose Not to Want these flats. look at the surplus just a couple years back... u think there's a sudden baby boom of buyers? nope, it's actually those HERD of pple who are always 3-5yrs behind, who are always 1 cycle behind - who found courage in each other n the market to actually Buy a flat.

lastly, u can also stay with parents If u didn't make the conscious effort to plan your own housing. or share rent with frens...
 

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