Should I will my assets to him? - Urgent advice needed!

singpen

New Member
Hi I need some advices.

My husband and I got married end of 2009. We are both in our middle age, my husband was a divorcee and has 3 children from his previous marriage whereas this is my first marriage. Both of us make good incomes and we both have our own assets which we accumulated BEFORE we knew each other.

Recently, we discuss about estate planning and about how we should allocate our assets after we pass on. I take the view that since we are a very newly married couple, we have our own insurance and enough savings for ourselves plus we do not have a child together yet, I'll will all my assets to both my aged parents and he can will his assets to his teenagers children. We can always review our will after we have a child together or when our marriage deepens and we build assets together. My husband did not agree with this, he say he is willing to will 50% to me and 50% to his children and he expects me to will 50% to him too. He got angry when I disagree with his suggestions and he accused me of ranking my siblings higher than him! He says my siblings will indirectly get my assets when my parents pass on whereas he will get nothing. He thinks that as my husband he is entitled to 50% of my estate. I explain that since our wealth was accumulated before we know each other, we do not have rights to each others' asset expecially when we both can take care of ourselves. He insisted that by not allocating a cent to him, it means he is not important to me. I was very disappointed that he measure love and importance with estate planning.
As a result of this fight (which he even suggested divorce in a fit of anger which he later withdrew), I started to quesiton if he is sincere about loving me or is he after my assets?? I always take the view that a real man should not eye at his wife's assets, especially in my case when I earn those asset before I knew him.

I need to hear some views?
 


singpen

New Member
Just to add on to my earlier post, this fight went on for 4 days and he even slept in the guest room for a couple of days. He said that even though we slept on the same bed, I do not have him in my estate planning so really no point sleeping together!!

I really would like to hear views form both men and women. My questions are:

1) In early marriage, and in cases like mine, is it reasonable for the man to expect to be in the wife's Will?

2) Why is he reacting so violently over this topic?
 

confusenism

New Member
hmm... in my view. should i have 3 kids from my previous marriage and now remarry. i will go accordingly to wad ur hb suggested. 50% to wife and the remaining 50% to my kids be it with current wife or previous marriage.

i dont have much expectations from my wife actually whether or not she will it to me or not. as long as she didnt will it to other people other than direct family i would have no opinions.

honestly will can be changed at different phases of life. like now for example. parents are still around. so 50% to wife, other 50% to parents. when there is kids involve then maybe 40% to wife 30% parents remaining kids.

when parents no longer around and kids are there and still young, den 75% to wife remaining 25% to kids. (trust fund) kids old liao. wife still around den 50-50. wife no more liao den kids split among themselves.

it really depends on how u wanna do it? he prolly feel that u dun take his kids as ur own. imo. cuz simple things like a will does shows how much his kids meant to u. sorry abt being straight to the point.
 

singpen

New Member
Hi Confused crossroads...

Thanks for the reply. His kids and I have good relationships and they are now staying with their mum. In honest opinion, although I like the kids, I have not developed our relationship to the level where I treat them as my own, especially when they do not live with us.

I agre that will can be changed...and that is precisely why I feel upset that he wants 50% of my estate at this point in time when we are just married.
 

powder

Active Member
if he wills 50% to u... then i guess it's expected that u will allot him 50% from your end.

if his ex-wife n kids isn't upset with him, then it does throw a news perspective on how they view money... as something of a personal choice if it's not theirs.

personally i'm indifferent if in his shoes. if happiness persisted without noticing who wills who... then i would just stick to that. if both me n wife and ok by ourselves... i think leaving a portion of it to Causes outside of each other or family, would be within our rights.
 

tomasulu

Member
he shouldn't have reacted the way he did. but not knowing your attitude then, it is hard to say if he is as pig-headed as you portrayed him to be.

imo, he has a point. excluding him from your will seems contrary to the spirit of coming together for richer for poorer. also you guys will probably take loans together as a married couple. your assets will help him shoulder the outstanding debt in case you kick the proverbial bucket.

but that's just my opinion, this is really a matter between you and him. instead of such money matters, you should be more concerned as to why you guys can't work through your disagreements like two mature adults.
 

singpen

New Member
tomasulu,

The only joint asset we have is a property which we bought together before we were married (under tenant-in-common) and each of us paid half. We are not staying in that property now as it is still under construction.

I think that there are 2 issues here, the first is that should a man be expected to benefit from the wife's assets even though he doesn't need it. (Actually he use the word "benefit". He said that my siblings get to benefit from my assets indirectly whereas he do not get to benefit at all.) The second issue is of course the way we handle dispute.

So I'm really interested in hearing advice on the first issue...the part on the allocation of estate.
 

tomasulu

Member
nothing wrong if a guy expect to 'benefit' (admittedly not the best choice of word) from his spouse's success or wealth. even if said wealth was earned prior to two people coming together in marriage. why do you think rich people are considered eligible partners?
 

powder

Active Member
hi singpen, dun focus too hard on the word.. it's heavily used by the industry.. ie death benefit, medical benefit, retirement benefit, hospitalization benefit.... the word is alot more 'marketable', just met my insurance agent and i notice the word benefit being used for everything... makes it sound abit like my death is gonna bring joy to the word in terms of financial benefits... hehe, i have to 'mentally change' the word to 'compensation' whilst listening.
 

simpleman

Active Member
I think the "benefit" is one thing. But I guess it is symbolic - from his perspective, he is worth nothing as compared to your siblings.. Unless he is far richer than you - then he wouldn't care too much about your asset. But if both have equal assets, and he is willing you 50% and not vice versa - I guess, this is where he is coming from.

Of you can propose that he will 100% to his children instead and not will you anything.
 

singpen

New Member
Hmm....I just cannot get over the fact that there is a possibility of the man marrying me because of my wealth....and not because he truely loves me. This is very sad.

My parents are aged and so the prioirty is to take care of my parents who do not have insurance and any savings. My husband doesn't need my money and we do not have our own child so he really shouldn't demand to have a share in this early days of our marriage. Likewise, I also do not demand to benefit from his assets since he has 3 teenager kids and will need to take care of them. I thought this is a fair and sensible arrangement?

Until this dispute happens, he usually pays for the meals which we take together but after the dispute, he wants me to co-pay. He came up with a system using a spreadsheet whereby each time we dine out, he'll record the amount and the aim is to ensure we split equally on meals. He said that since I do not intend to give him any of my asset, he does not want to pay fo rmy meals and help me save more which eventually it may benefit my parent then my siblings (via my parents).
My heart really sank, I feel so hurt that he is counting beans with me. My husband's earning is at the top 95 percentile of the population here and yet he count beans with me. My husband really doesn't spend much on me since I'm working and has good income and I don't expect him to suport me as well. For him to pay for my meals when we dine out together (just a few times a week), I see this more like an act of love. So by counting beans with me, it is as though he has removed this act of love...and all because I temporarily did not include him in my estate planning.
 

singpen

New Member
hi sm,

Actually I did suggest that until we have a child of our own, he can will 100% to his kids. We can review our will after we have a kid...
But he is nto pleased with the idea.
 

miamivice

New Member
Your assets are yours. What you do with it is up to you to decide. Your husband should respect that.

He's a moron.
 

tomasulu

Member
funny how you think he should express his love in buying you dinners... but you don't buy his argument that having him in your will has a significance beyond money.

from his perspective, he probably thinks he is titting your tatting. is he ang mo?
 

simpleman

Active Member
I guess it could be symbolic.. Since he does not need your money, it is just that he wants you to value him - monetary-wise.

He is counting beans with you because he feels that you don't value him. It is a childish reaction on his part but his intention is to "let you know" how he is feeling.

Is he a petty man?

Actually since your hb is earning (I presume more than you) - having him willing 50% to you and you willing 50% to him is to your advantage.. I don't know why you are not keen on this.
 

tomasulu

Member
i don't like rhetorical question. it is perhaps not germane to our discussion... or maybe it is. i am trying to explore if there is an alien cultural element at work here. feel free to disagree.
 

singpen

New Member
Hi tomasulu,

No I do not think he should express his love in buying me dinner. It is more like he has been buying me dinners all these while even before married, I thought he is very sweet and cherish it. The reason I'm displeased is that he is using this tactic to retaliate. If all along he doesn't pay for my meals, I'm ok....but now he withdraw that gesture just because he is not in my will, I think this is petty.
 

ajumma

New Member
are u significantly richer than ur husband in terms of assets? if u r, maybe ur suspicions abt him marrying u for money are valid. if not, then i think he is just being selfish and upset that u r taking care of ur family more than him.

before u married him, did u find out what was the cause of his previous divorce? from his actions, threatening divorce, going to sleep in guest room, it sounds to me like he is an extremely petty man taking actions that will manipulate u into agreeing with him.

two reasons why i think so. first, both of u r just married. why the rush to discuss ur will? second, unless u r not sound of mind, who u want to give ur money and assets to is not anybody else's business but ur own.

and u have been fair, right? u said that he can will 100 percent to his three children.

it's just the beginning of ur married life and he's sleeping in the guest room and creating spreadsheets to spite u. if i were u, i would stand my ground and observe his character.

if his behaviour continues, pls suggest that he does something about himself and go for counselling. doesn't sound like he is able to maintain a healthy, loving marriage.
 

singpen

New Member
Hi ajumma,

In terms of asset, i think we are about equal or I could have marginally more.
His ex-wife has an extra-marital affair, initiated a divorce, moved in with her boyfriend, 2 months later wanted to reconcile but he refused to forgive her, hence divorce.

Hi sm,
The reason why I do not agree to will 50% to him in exchange for 50% of his asset is because I do not use a mathematical approach in this matter. Bascially, I think my parents need my money more than him, and his kids need his money more than me.
 

simpleman

Active Member
I guess he is just on the petty side - that is all I can say.

But I think both of you do have a problem at hand...
 

cuclainne

New Member
these kind of situations can arise, regardless of one's skin colour so don't be so quick to point fingers.

singpen, personally i find that your husband is a petty man but you would probably be a better judge of that.

whatever me and the husband had before marriage, we kept separately from the combined assets we have now. and no, he has not demanded anything from me.
 

simpleman

Active Member
Since your parents are older than you - it is natural for them to leave this world before you. Willing your money to them is actually willing the money to your siblings. So unless your siblings really need your money - otherwise, it is natural for a couple to will to one another.

For parents, the chances of your leaving would be more an accident and/or illness - in this case, it may be more prudent to get insurance policies and state your parents as beneficiaries - and these will then not be distributed according to the will.

Having said all these - it is still unthinkable for your hb to think in this manner and even to the extent of sleeping in guest room and threatening divorce and keeping tabs of dinner expenses..
 

singpen

New Member
Personally, I would prefer to be open about my estate planning as I do not want to leave a bitter taste in my husband mouth after i leave this world. But unfortunately I didn't expect him to react this way...
 

kittenpie

New Member
Singpen,

he may not be after money per se. perhaps as a result of his upbringing, money may have a special denotation with regards to love. a quirk just like how some people expect at least one phone call everyday, or want to see food on the table every night when they come home regardless of whether they are hungry.

what do you yourself personally think about his character and personality? do you think he is greedy for money?

men in my life do not generally care about money as much as your husband seems to, but again, you cannot compare in this manner. alternatively, you can view this situation as being somewhat similar to how some parents want their children to give them allowance, even though they do not even need this money.

as for your parents being your beneficiaries, it is a very real possibility that your siblings get the money instead. you may want to explore ways to will your money differently if your ultimate conclusion is that you want to let your HB get a part of it.
 

ajumma

New Member
agree with sm. naming ur parents as beneficiaries for ur insurance policies is also another viable option.

since there is no solution for ur dilemma in estate planning, is it possible for u to put aside this issue for the time being?

most likely ur husband is like this now bcoz of a previous experience where he felt he lost out in the marriage. however, this doesn't make his behaviour right.

pls try to talk sense to him. when there are disputes, u need to communicate to sort things out. resorting to petty behaviour to get back at u will only create a lose-lose situation and doesn't benefit anyone.
 

clipperjunk

New Member
i reckon this is a matter of perspectives, yours is actually a 'happy problem', many couples quarrel over the lack of money...

while i do think he's being extremely petty, my view is that his approach to asset sharing is less clinical than yours, he isn't into the money as you might think. he didn't ask you not to take care of your parents, did he?

all he probably wants is perhaps that shared sense of belonging. as for you, you probably had tasted plenty of independence and perhaps see the willing of assets to him as being subservient?

in any case, there are many ways to circumvent the problem, have joint accounts with your parents without him knowing. if as expected you do outlive your parents, then no one is the wiser. if otherwise, the money is your parents to keep.

the matter now is how to repair the relationship, if it goes on like this, your hubby is looking at a second divorce...
 

susanna_low

New Member
e say he is willing to will 50% to me and 50% to his children and he expects me to will 50% to him too

Perhaps he is angry not because of the $ but he doesn't even stand 50% in your heart.
 

sundownprince

New Member
Is there a clause that you place where you give monthly payouts to ur parents should they out live you and the remaining be willed to ur hubby upon their death? is that possible?
 

wat_are_dreamz

New Member
Singpen: U are wondering if ur hubby is after ur $. I think u actually answered tat qn urself. Ur hubby is in the 95th percentile in income earning, he is financially stable n does not need ur $. When u go out for meals, he pays out of love n not cos he needs to support u.

U have alr been married for 1yr. Tat shd be enough time, rather than saying tat u are still in the early stage of marriage n can change ur will later. Most pple have their spouse factored into their will from the day they sign the marriage cert. As husband n wife, u pledge to spend ur lifetime tgr thro gd n bad times, for richer or poorer. Ur hubby feels tat he is being fair by willing 50% of his assets to his 3chldn n 50% to u. To him, its natural responsible behaviour n to show how impt u are to him. Thus, i believe he is shocked to know ur diff thinking on the matter. Ur r/ship w his chldn may not be solid enough for him to feel comf to have a child w u. His r/ship w ur siblings may not be solid as well. Chances are he feels tat u are not logical in ur thinking (to will 100% to ur parents) n is shocked by ur apparently 'calculative' nature as to how u explain tat ur assets were grown b4 marriage, so he is not entitled to a share of it.

Maybe u can ask him out for a nice dinner n spend some time reassuring him tat u love him. If u can concur w him on tis matter, it will be gd cos he sees it as a v impt matter. He is ready to will half of his assets (which he grew b4 marriage to u) to u cos u are his wife, he loves u n u are impt to him. U telling him to will 100% of his assets to his chldn is like a slap in his face n an insult of his most basic love, protection n providence for u. Have u opened ur heart n mind to see where he is coming from?
 

sundownprince

New Member
Hmmm... i think marriages at different stages of life has different expectations esp if TS is well established... i dun find anything wrong with willing the assets to her parents who have raised her why is there a need to will 50% to the husband who should not be petty over such minor issues considering that he has his own resources. Is it cause his assets were split after the divorce? If he insists on being in the will give him a smaller percentage(5% as a joke) you dun want him contesting with ur parents over ur assets should anything happen. so what if it goes to your siblings??? 1 year into marriage is too soon...
 

singpen

New Member
Thanks all for your views.

I read about many marriage breaking down as a result of insufficient finances hence I did not anticipate my husband and I will have serious dispute regarding finances since we are both self-sufficient. Hence this was a topic we did not discuss before the wedding, which on hindsight, it is a mistake.
 

singpen

New Member
Hi Tomasulu,

I'm reading your earlier post where you wrote....

***nothing wrong if a guy expect to 'benefit' (admittedly not the best choice of word) from his spouse's success or wealth. even if said wealth was earned prior to two people coming together in marriage. why do you think rich people are considered eligible partners?***


Yes, no doubt rich peple are considered eligible partners but if you have a daughter, you'll not want your son-in-law to marry your daughter just because she is rich!!
There is nothing wrong for a guy to benefit from his spouse wealth...but there is a lot of wrongs to EXPECT to benefit from his spouse wealth.
 

tomasulu

Member
Not 'just because' singpen. But I'd be very naive if I didn't think financial wellbeing is considered a big plus in potential spouses. It then logically follows that someone would expect to 'benefit' from his spouse's wealth if her wealth is considered a good thing. For you the benefit may be i-dont-have-to-share-mine-with-him. For him it takes on a different form. You can splice and dice the language all you want but I don't see a lot of difference in both your expectations.
 

pantieileen

New Member
Actually it's not even necessary to tell him details of your will. Your Will is yours, it's personal.

I told my bf or now husband that i expect nothing from his will. If he leaves me $ then i'll give all to his parents and siblings coz i don't need his money. I didn't leave him nor my parents or sibling a cent of my assets (excluding property). 50% will go to my friends' kids' educations till they reach 18yr old (since i don't have any right now) and 50% goes to my favorite charity.

The rationale being if i go, he becomes a instant multi-millionaire from our property (originally planned as tenancy in common but last minute changed to joint tenancy) so why does he need the extra million?

Anyway who cares if they'll be upset when you are gone..can you even see it?

Then my sibling will be another instant millionaire since no one will share the inheritance so there's no need to bequeath anything to him either. My parents are self sufficient hence since i no longer take pocket money from them, they get savings from there...

Truth is when i told him about my details of the will, he got alittle bit angry. Then i realise that he just wanted to be the executor of the will and then i explain my rationale to him and all is fine.

The will can be changed when major changes happens in my life. If i have a kid then 100% goes to the kid in a trust fund.

Well, my parents had to change their will when we ROM as well. Put in a clause that my inheritance will not go to him should i die before my sibling. ie. Family $ stays within the family but i wonder how the lawyers can ensure that?
 

mum_of_2_girls

New Member
Hi all,

Mine is very simple.

I will 100% to my hubby and he also will 100% to me.

None to the children. They should earn their own money.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
"I just cannot get over the fact that there is a possibility of the man marrying me because of my wealth"

Statistically, men pass on before a woman. Your concern would be more valid if you are marrying someone much younger than you or have a family history of inheritary terminal illnesses. Its really beyond just the financial part.

Would your partner get over that fact that you place so little faith and trust in him? In a way, an insult.
 

watching

Member
Singpen,

Hearing what you want with regards to your testament, I thought of the below. You can choose option 1 or/and option 2. You can "mix and match; extend and eliminate". I think if you literally map this out, you can gauge with more ease.

Option 1) buy a life annuity insurance for your parents; they get an/a annual/monthly pay out until the day they die. The risk of life annuity is if your parents pass on early thereafter, the lump sum you've paid is a "waste", the insurance company "profits" almost everything.

Option 2) You name your parents as beneficiaries but include a clause in your testament that whatever amount of your money not used by your dead parents goes to your surviving husband. The "leftovers for your husband" is defined as the sum that parents did not use from your bucket. That way, your siblings inherit nothing from you but they may still inherit something (whatever amount, if any) from your parents ´own bucket. Mind that the your parents "cheat", by using their own money to pass down to your siblings, then use your money to live. How to prevent that from happening? Ask the lawyer to draft a contract saying your parents are summoned to provide your surviving husband a balance sheet of what they spend annually. Quite a hassle, I agree. If they leave a significant sum to your siblings from their own bucket, then the money from your bucket automatically goes to your husband. Define significant yourself.

If you do not wish for his children to inherit anything from you, perhaps you could include yet another clause; that whatever your husband did not use from "your bucket" goes back to your family, ie your siblings. Include a contract summoning an annual balance sheet from your husband to your siblings.

Only option 1: Managing a lump sum inheritance is a bit more challenging if your parents are the gullible type. In that case, I would prefer only a life annuity insurance to ensure they are monetarily, monthly taken care of. Or can inheritance can be paid out peridiocally? I'm inclined to think so.

Option 1 + option 2: Buy a life annuity insurance that pays out the minimum to cover their daily necessities. If they are not in the best of health and they kick the bucket early for whatever reasons, then you only loose a little portion of your money. Map out further with option 2.


You can encourage your husband to do a clause in his own will. Whatever is left from his bucket to you goes back to his children when you pass on.

I wish I could be more tactful and accurate in the terminologies when delivering this. You can explore this with your lawyer, ask if it is feasible.
 

pantieileen

New Member
I would talk to a lawyer friend over lunch or dinner about this privately ... save some money ding dong back with a lawyer with so many questions.
 

kokoko

New Member
Singpen,

If your hubby had sensibly point out to you that by excluding him in your will, he feels unimportant to you, then I would believe that he is genuinely focusing on the "love" and "importance" issue. Unfortunately his reaction was way too violent and drastic, suggesting divorce n stop paying for your meals. This shows that he very much wants to have a share of your wealth n is willing to throw away the marriage once he realise he ain't going to get it. Sorry, this is blunt but it really is what it is!!
The point is, assume he has a valid reason to interpret your Will arrangement negatively, it should not escalate to a fight that involves divorce. So obviously your wealth means a lot to him, maybe more than the marriage itself.

A year into the marriage is just too soon. Besides, like what "watching" says in his post, you may not wish for his children to inherit anything from you, n tat is a valid statement. If he doesn't want your assets to indirectly flow to your siblings then he also cannot expect you to want your assets to indirectly flow to his children.

I'm sorry to hear about your husband's divorce threat. Most likely he didn't mean it but was using divorce to get what he wants. My ex-husband used to threaten divorce over the slightest disagreement. In the early days I gave in to him to keep the marriage, but my heart would be hurting and I felt manipulated n helpless. Living with my ex became stressful & I resented his constant divorce threat. With each threat, I'll be dishearten n over-time, I became distant n felt less n less for him. Then came the breaking point, I moved out, filed for separation. My ex contested the divorce, he begged me for forgiveness but the thought of living with him was repulsive. It took me some years plus a lot of courage to walk out but on hindsight, I should have done it earlier.

Singpen, my advice to you is, do not allow your husband to manipulate you with divorce threat. There must be mutual respect in a marriage, n this is irregardless of wealth n "benefits". Your husband is fortunate to find someone who accepts his past and children, moreover he does not need to support you financially. This is his second marriage so if he doesn't treasure his second shot at happiness, he doesn't deserve you.
 

watching

Member
"Besides, like what "watching" says in his post, you may not wish for his children to inherit anything from you, n tat is a valid statement."

You misread, I said, "If you do not wish for his children to inherit anything from you, perhaps you could include yet another clause..." The emphasis is IF. I was writing with no emotional opinion, I was just trying to puzzle out the will.
 


kitten19

New Member
Whilst your husband may be petty and childish in his approach to dealing with this situation, I feel you have been self centred towards him (perhaps out of ignorance) in terms of priorities to him. I also feel it’s is unfair to come to a conclusion that he’s after your assets. And his current behaviour has nothing to do with money although he uses money to “teach you a lesson†– so to speak.

I don’t know you well enough or know how you view marriage so I’ll summerise the ideals of it, and I feel perhaps your hubby may have similar ideals. Marriage is a union of 2 individuals coming together as one. “Me†becomes “weâ€; both think for each other, he is a part of you, you a part of him. What is yours is his, what is his is yours. Your priorities are to him and the family you create with him. Like it or not, your parents and siblings though still an important part of your life, come after him and your family (of course, if there is a win-win situation, all the better). There will always be disagreements but there needs to be good communication & discussions to work them out. Marriages especially new ones, need a lot of effort and sacrifices to make it work. I don’t mean to sound patronizing but it could be that as this is your first marriage and you married late, you may be so used to looking into your parents’ and siblings’ welfare that you inadvertently left out your hubby in your priorities, thinking he is financially sound. But there is more to married life than money, and that is what your hubby wants from you.

Although you may not need him to will his assets to you, he is doing so to prove his commitment to you. He knows you are financially independent and hence do not need to depend on him but his inclusion of you into his will is a symbol of you being part of him / his priority. I am certain he doesn’t need your money; he in turn wants to see you prove your commitment to him. As you didn’t and chose to will your assets to your parents instead (thus putting them as priority over him), worse, you made it into a financial issue which really is not, he is obviously very hurt and probably insulted. He is “punishing†you based on your superficial idea that this fiasco is about money. As this is his 2nd marriage, he’s probably more certain of what he wants out of it. He probably chose a financially independent partner (you) so as to avoid “gold diggersâ€, but he’d still want a partner who’d love him and would always look out for him and of his family.

My humble suggestion is that you have a good talk with him. Ask him how he views marriage. If it’s different from yours, then explain you didn’t realize it and may have overlooked his views. You could also add that you really want the marriage to work out and you'd rather he discuss the situation with you than bring up the divorce word when there is a disagreement.

If you parents are depending on you financially, you could take the advice of some mentioned earlier in terms of insurance. The monthly allowance you give them (I assume you do) helps too. Personally, I don’t see anything wrong in him requesting you willing 50% to him and 50% to your parents. In fact, if he were my hubby, I would have done it without him even asking since he had done so for me.
 

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