You need not help me to see it cos I dun see it and I just dun know why your company would be in trouble because a staff went on to the police because of a sexual harassment case? And a wrongful dismissal thereafter would be helpful to your company???? and the livelihood of the other 999 staff? Now who is not seeing what?
Sexual harassment at work is it common?
- Thread starter sundownprince
- Start date
miloice
Well-Known Member
hweebs, on your query :
"discussions aside, jo, have you sounded your superior yet?"
She actually answered it this morning at 11.39am.
"if i did feel comfortable revealing everything i would have voiced out long ago to someone of higher authority
To me, this is the key point of concern. For reasons unknown to everyone... What is making her so uncomfortable to escalate?!? This is precisely why the harassment is continuing and the offender getting bolder.
She needs to face the problem and put a stop to it. Despite what everyone is saying... it seems she is looking for reasons to help her with the decision to just live with it silently. i.e. she is the only one trying to trivialize the matter.
"discussions aside, jo, have you sounded your superior yet?"
She actually answered it this morning at 11.39am.
"if i did feel comfortable revealing everything i would have voiced out long ago to someone of higher authority
To me, this is the key point of concern. For reasons unknown to everyone... What is making her so uncomfortable to escalate?!? This is precisely why the harassment is continuing and the offender getting bolder.
She needs to face the problem and put a stop to it. Despite what everyone is saying... it seems she is looking for reasons to help her with the decision to just live with it silently. i.e. she is the only one trying to trivialize the matter.
sgbabydoll
Active Member
But I need to call my mom!
The person who reports me better not have a mother then.
I am always being contacted on my mobile, so for outgoing calls I prefer to use the landline.
The person who reports me better not have a mother then.
I am always being contacted on my mobile, so for outgoing calls I prefer to use the landline.
kenturik,
calling it a 'wrongful dismissal' already tells me your stance, so i really dun see a need to explain myself when u already charged me.
but i would like to point out that some pple can make a big hooha over the slightest thing... if u have accidentally brushed against an auntie on a bus and been accused of molest, if u have seen how some ultra-conservatives accuse others of dressing provocatively etc, u might be able to understand why i am not quick to accept certain behaviours.
calling it a 'wrongful dismissal' already tells me your stance, so i really dun see a need to explain myself when u already charged me.
but i would like to point out that some pple can make a big hooha over the slightest thing... if u have accidentally brushed against an auntie on a bus and been accused of molest, if u have seen how some ultra-conservatives accuse others of dressing provocatively etc, u might be able to understand why i am not quick to accept certain behaviours.
kent, same with u here - "it depends on the severity of the case...."
on another note, i think we've seen from time to time, the conservatives in some muslim states out to catch pple for 'close proximity'... and charge them. recently also another case where a lady was caught for Drinking and supposed to be caned (i didn't follow up on the result)...
erm YES, OBVIOUSLY taking stationery or asking my PA to do my personal errand would not be the same as a sexual harassment issue. my Focus is on the APPROACH taken by the person, not the trespass. i'm saying IF your boss reports u to the police for taking stationery, or IF your PA reports u to MOM... would u still feel your boss is worth working for? or your PA is worth being a PA to handle your professional/private matters?
i dun think u would trust either party... if u are not the boss, u would remove yourself by quitting, if u are the boss u would remove the person thru dismissal... in both cases, i would think that BOTH took the wrong approach... boss and PA. their decision makes it difficult for me to work with them henceforth...
that is precisely the reason why i would terminate the person... NOT for being the victim, but for the approach/decision taken. would i allow her to make further decisions/approach pertaining to Any company matters?
on another note, i think we've seen from time to time, the conservatives in some muslim states out to catch pple for 'close proximity'... and charge them. recently also another case where a lady was caught for Drinking and supposed to be caned (i didn't follow up on the result)...
erm YES, OBVIOUSLY taking stationery or asking my PA to do my personal errand would not be the same as a sexual harassment issue. my Focus is on the APPROACH taken by the person, not the trespass. i'm saying IF your boss reports u to the police for taking stationery, or IF your PA reports u to MOM... would u still feel your boss is worth working for? or your PA is worth being a PA to handle your professional/private matters?
i dun think u would trust either party... if u are not the boss, u would remove yourself by quitting, if u are the boss u would remove the person thru dismissal... in both cases, i would think that BOTH took the wrong approach... boss and PA. their decision makes it difficult for me to work with them henceforth...
that is precisely the reason why i would terminate the person... NOT for being the victim, but for the approach/decision taken. would i allow her to make further decisions/approach pertaining to Any company matters?
sundownprince
New Member
Hweebs> cause I am not the victim and I have to respect her wishes.
that's the twist.
sharepoint
Member
I have a colleague who likes to tease me and comment on my wearing and sometime body. He will also do such small action such as like pulling my hair or sleeve to antagonize me although it’s just like a light pull. Although every time he does it jokingly or for the fun but I don’t like it. Everyone in the office knows about his crazy character or behavior and don’t take his actions or words seriously, everyone think it is just for the fun it and laugh with him. He obviously has some problems with his wife as he openly talked about his sexless life, his wife’s lack of libido and his jaunt at geylang. He will also openly asked or comment about your lingerie, what you like, what sizes etc, he can connect everything to sex or lewd fantasies. He will also openly comment on any woman he saw on the street about their body. A few female colleagues seem to think that he is quite humorous and get along with him quite well. As we are in the same department, I usually joined them for lunch or outing.
Is this considered sexual harassment? I have tried to ignore him or give him a black face but apparently he didn’t get it. It’s such a grey area because no body in the office thinks there is anything wrong or is it really very common in every office? I am quite new so I trying to fit in to their office culture.
Is this considered sexual harassment? I have tried to ignore him or give him a black face but apparently he didn’t get it. It’s such a grey area because no body in the office thinks there is anything wrong or is it really very common in every office? I am quite new so I trying to fit in to their office culture.
sundownprince
New Member
i think that is quite common...and i guess acceptable in some office environments? but i think preying and intimidation with position to do things of sexual nature is not.
sharepoint
Member
Oh...so its common and acceptable..
preying and intimidation with position to do things of sexual nature...like what?...being physical then its considered sexual harassment? wont this be more than harassment?
preying and intimidation with position to do things of sexual nature...like what?...being physical then its considered sexual harassment? wont this be more than harassment?
My guess on TS maintaining secrecy:
Fearing repercussions (fearing losing her job) that would have on affected parties (she has a family to feed)
Not revealing the type of sexual harassment:
1) someone she knows comes to this forum too, she is not anonymous if she reveals too many details AND/OR.
2) Many times the thread starter gets jarring replies for his/her way of handling things, she prefers a a less intense tone in a reply if forummers deem the harassment trivial.
Fearing repercussions (fearing losing her job) that would have on affected parties (she has a family to feed)
Not revealing the type of sexual harassment:
1) someone she knows comes to this forum too, she is not anonymous if she reveals too many details AND/OR.
2) Many times the thread starter gets jarring replies for his/her way of handling things, she prefers a a less intense tone in a reply if forummers deem the harassment trivial.
yes Kenturik,
different management styles... i have a very strong ability to see further than most pple and my powers of observation are very strong. i would not hesitate to give a stern warning to anyone who tries to chat up my office girls or ask them for lunch, it sounds draconian but the nature of biz is such that i would prefer any dating outside of office and not within. those who persistently head out for lunch with the girls will be soon be offloaded. so far, it has not happened. like i said, everyone needs to be on their toes at work and we simply cannot make mistakes, thus the need to stay primed.
in jo's fren's case, both she and the aggressor would be too psychologically affected within the confines to do a good focused job... 1st to go would be the aggressor (provided i'm given the chance to address), next to go will be her becos within the Higher mental abilities of my department, she simply cannot stay becos she didn't even have faith in us to address the issue, she didn't have faith in me as the boss to do the right thing and sack the aggressor, she didn't have faith to bring up an issue which she feels she is being harassed, she didn't have faith in herself in knowing that the aggressor is wrong and she should stand up for herself.
in every sense of her being her, she is simply wrong to handle the clients, the millions of dollars, becos she can't even discern something as simple as black/wrong/inexcusable behaviour. i can no longer trust her judgement in handling clients, goods, services, products, pple etc...
there is actually more, but i just wanna share this simpler to understand dynamics From the pov of a company director. Of cos, there are companies that can accept her which i dun deny, but for me, i can no longer trust this person... so from my pov, i would rather she be asked to go so that she can further her career elsewhere, than stay in the company when i know i can no longer trust her discretions.
am i harsh? it would be harsher and downright hypocritical for me to keep her when she can find a better place where her personality and work can be appreciated. what different isit from Not daring to breakup with a person u dun love, and stay in a meaningless relationship when u no longer wish to share a life with them?
again, within the dynamics of my company, i would not be the sole person who see things this way... majority of us would share similar opinions, and letting go of a person is Not a bad thing like most of u think. it is freeing them from a company where their very approach would mean they no longer have a future.
different management styles... i have a very strong ability to see further than most pple and my powers of observation are very strong. i would not hesitate to give a stern warning to anyone who tries to chat up my office girls or ask them for lunch, it sounds draconian but the nature of biz is such that i would prefer any dating outside of office and not within. those who persistently head out for lunch with the girls will be soon be offloaded. so far, it has not happened. like i said, everyone needs to be on their toes at work and we simply cannot make mistakes, thus the need to stay primed.
in jo's fren's case, both she and the aggressor would be too psychologically affected within the confines to do a good focused job... 1st to go would be the aggressor (provided i'm given the chance to address), next to go will be her becos within the Higher mental abilities of my department, she simply cannot stay becos she didn't even have faith in us to address the issue, she didn't have faith in me as the boss to do the right thing and sack the aggressor, she didn't have faith to bring up an issue which she feels she is being harassed, she didn't have faith in herself in knowing that the aggressor is wrong and she should stand up for herself.
in every sense of her being her, she is simply wrong to handle the clients, the millions of dollars, becos she can't even discern something as simple as black/wrong/inexcusable behaviour. i can no longer trust her judgement in handling clients, goods, services, products, pple etc...
there is actually more, but i just wanna share this simpler to understand dynamics From the pov of a company director. Of cos, there are companies that can accept her which i dun deny, but for me, i can no longer trust this person... so from my pov, i would rather she be asked to go so that she can further her career elsewhere, than stay in the company when i know i can no longer trust her discretions.
am i harsh? it would be harsher and downright hypocritical for me to keep her when she can find a better place where her personality and work can be appreciated. what different isit from Not daring to breakup with a person u dun love, and stay in a meaningless relationship when u no longer wish to share a life with them?
again, within the dynamics of my company, i would not be the sole person who see things this way... majority of us would share similar opinions, and letting go of a person is Not a bad thing like most of u think. it is freeing them from a company where their very approach would mean they no longer have a future.
Sharepoint,
i believe it's again quite subjective. i come from environments where my lady frens share with me their menses, sex life, positions, bra sizes, lingerie preferences, penis size preferences, orgasms, ons, cunninlingus, when/how/with what they masturbate with, tendecies etc etc etc...
sometimes it's serious, sometimes it's humourous, sometimes it's just teasing. maybe if i went back to being 15, i would no doubt feel harassed and wonder why i'm being told so much details... but now, i guess i just happen to be one of those guy frens they feel comfortable talking to me abt such matters without me judging them as being cheap in any way...
u should just tell the guy off if u're not comfortable.
i believe it's again quite subjective. i come from environments where my lady frens share with me their menses, sex life, positions, bra sizes, lingerie preferences, penis size preferences, orgasms, ons, cunninlingus, when/how/with what they masturbate with, tendecies etc etc etc...
sometimes it's serious, sometimes it's humourous, sometimes it's just teasing. maybe if i went back to being 15, i would no doubt feel harassed and wonder why i'm being told so much details... but now, i guess i just happen to be one of those guy frens they feel comfortable talking to me abt such matters without me judging them as being cheap in any way...
u should just tell the guy off if u're not comfortable.
sundownprince
New Member
inteligent deduction you made watching. she is right with regards to point 1.
anyway when i said charged what makes you think i go direct to the police? of cause i will inform higher management first right. but obviously it seems that once higher management knows they will keep it internally. you are going to say that my views are clouded again and i have preconceived notions?
anyway when i said charged what makes you think i go direct to the police? of cause i will inform higher management first right. but obviously it seems that once higher management knows they will keep it internally. you are going to say that my views are clouded again and i have preconceived notions?
sharepoint
Member
Yes, powder, that’s the situation in my office although so far never heard them discuss about..hem..organ sizes but the ladies here since quite comfortable talking about all these things with male colleagues…but only him like to tease people…he can be narrating his stories and suddenly turn to me and asked whether I am horny after hearing it…I mean I was quite shock the first time…what’s that suppose to mean…or when you wear tight skirt/blouse…he will make lewd comment about your bust or butt…it makes me quite self-conscious nowadays on the clothes I am wearing. I have told him off about him touching me but I don’t want to sound too harsh as we still need to work as a team, so he still occasionally repeats it.
As for his verbal behaviour, I don’t wish to create a scene since its an acceptable norm in my office and I guess I cannot do anything but try to get use to it since it not really sexual harassment and an offence. The more I tried not to response to him, the more he would like to tease me. I don’t see him teasing other ladies much as they are at the same frequency as him. So, you see, inorder to neutralise him, I guess you got to be at the same wavelength as him. I have a male boss and although he is a decent guy but he has no problem with that guy behaviour because I guess he is much exposed to the real world outside. My job involved dealing with customers and suppliers, once, I was in china, my boss and I are invited to a dinner cum karaoke session with this client, that is the first time I attended such thing, the dinner is ok but not the after event. The client has ‘ordered’ a gal for everyone including me. I can tell you, the scene is not very pretty after those guys are drunk. They can get very physical with the gal and talked all kind of nonsense, it’s really an eye opener for me. I was also verbally harassed by the gal with me and also kind of ‘molested’, you can imagine how uncomfortable I am the whole night. My boss behave quite professionally, I don’t know its because I am there or what but he did not get drunk, only talking nonsense with the client and gal. later, I asked my boss whether I can be excused from such event in the future but he said no, he said I will have to learnt to adjust and adapt but he told me to always go with a male colleague and never go alone. I wonder any lady here have similar experience and how best to handle such situation.
Sorry, I have digressed, may be not so related to sexual harassment but I guess its another form of harassment or job’s hazard that lady have to adapt and survive in the workplace.
As for his verbal behaviour, I don’t wish to create a scene since its an acceptable norm in my office and I guess I cannot do anything but try to get use to it since it not really sexual harassment and an offence. The more I tried not to response to him, the more he would like to tease me. I don’t see him teasing other ladies much as they are at the same frequency as him. So, you see, inorder to neutralise him, I guess you got to be at the same wavelength as him. I have a male boss and although he is a decent guy but he has no problem with that guy behaviour because I guess he is much exposed to the real world outside. My job involved dealing with customers and suppliers, once, I was in china, my boss and I are invited to a dinner cum karaoke session with this client, that is the first time I attended such thing, the dinner is ok but not the after event. The client has ‘ordered’ a gal for everyone including me. I can tell you, the scene is not very pretty after those guys are drunk. They can get very physical with the gal and talked all kind of nonsense, it’s really an eye opener for me. I was also verbally harassed by the gal with me and also kind of ‘molested’, you can imagine how uncomfortable I am the whole night. My boss behave quite professionally, I don’t know its because I am there or what but he did not get drunk, only talking nonsense with the client and gal. later, I asked my boss whether I can be excused from such event in the future but he said no, he said I will have to learnt to adjust and adapt but he told me to always go with a male colleague and never go alone. I wonder any lady here have similar experience and how best to handle such situation.
Sorry, I have digressed, may be not so related to sexual harassment but I guess its another form of harassment or job’s hazard that lady have to adapt and survive in the workplace.
miloice
Well-Known Member
Jo Ou, sometimes, not sure about your work culture. But, are your managers this unapproachable? Even if you are not the victim, it doesn't mean others should 'mind their own biz'.
To point out, the calling police thingy was likely to be initiated from your 2nd post :
"sms? read cases whereby MOM refused to take action and police will not want to interefere too? any advice?"
To point out, the calling police thingy was likely to be initiated from your 2nd post :
"sms? read cases whereby MOM refused to take action and police will not want to interefere too? any advice?"
Sharepoint, geez. Your colleague sounds annoying. He's probably teasing you because he enjoys getting a kick out of seeing your reaction - or shocked reaction.
Have you tried handling him firmly, but not fiercely? "No, do not touch me.", "I am serious.", "It's not funny", "I don't appreciate your humour". And in the worst case scenario be straightforward: "You are bordering on harassment". Best in a deadpanned voice. He might get bored of teasing you after a while.
Have you tried handling him firmly, but not fiercely? "No, do not touch me.", "I am serious.", "It's not funny", "I don't appreciate your humour". And in the worst case scenario be straightforward: "You are bordering on harassment". Best in a deadpanned voice. He might get bored of teasing you after a while.
hi Sharepoint,
yours is quite a perculiar case which not many will be exposed to... the office part u just gotta have a straight talk with the guy that it's not that u are being prudish, but there are certain decorum which u adhere to as a personal principle and preference. that u have no issues with the talk, but u would like him to refrain from making references directed at u... score for a mutual respect there... if it doesn't work, u have to drop hints on sexual harassment, like showing him the links that has been provided by matka above.
as for the ktv in china, it's rare, altho not uncommon to me... but to get a girl for u is knida weird, in fact rather insulting unless u're really ok with it... even for my exposure... we do bring lady colleagues sometimes with clients who know them Very Well, but to sorta force them thru the thing is wrong. most times, us & clients won't take any girls in the presence of our lady clients/colleagues... i think it's a basic respect... we'll just use the room as per any KTV like k-box.
i would consider that as harassment to be honest... i think it's basic courtesy to ask... of cos for biz if need to then dinner should suffice, but ktv sessions are also good for bonding... yes it's impt, but some pple have religious/personal beliefs to adhere to, so normally biz pple will have a certain amount of respect and not insist u go.
if it's impt for your career, u have to weigh it... another thing u can do is just to stay for an hour or 2, then excuse yourself with headache or something... if boss/guys Insist u stay, these are Not pple who u really wanna work for or with. they have little regard for your well-being... why i dun suggest staying too long is becos u dun wanna reach a point whereby Any guy in that room, cannot control their liquor and start going rowdy... anything thereafter might also affect your career. i Highly suggest a Habit of 1.5hrs.
yours is quite a perculiar case which not many will be exposed to... the office part u just gotta have a straight talk with the guy that it's not that u are being prudish, but there are certain decorum which u adhere to as a personal principle and preference. that u have no issues with the talk, but u would like him to refrain from making references directed at u... score for a mutual respect there... if it doesn't work, u have to drop hints on sexual harassment, like showing him the links that has been provided by matka above.
as for the ktv in china, it's rare, altho not uncommon to me... but to get a girl for u is knida weird, in fact rather insulting unless u're really ok with it... even for my exposure... we do bring lady colleagues sometimes with clients who know them Very Well, but to sorta force them thru the thing is wrong. most times, us & clients won't take any girls in the presence of our lady clients/colleagues... i think it's a basic respect... we'll just use the room as per any KTV like k-box.
i would consider that as harassment to be honest... i think it's basic courtesy to ask... of cos for biz if need to then dinner should suffice, but ktv sessions are also good for bonding... yes it's impt, but some pple have religious/personal beliefs to adhere to, so normally biz pple will have a certain amount of respect and not insist u go.
if it's impt for your career, u have to weigh it... another thing u can do is just to stay for an hour or 2, then excuse yourself with headache or something... if boss/guys Insist u stay, these are Not pple who u really wanna work for or with. they have little regard for your well-being... why i dun suggest staying too long is becos u dun wanna reach a point whereby Any guy in that room, cannot control their liquor and start going rowdy... anything thereafter might also affect your career. i Highly suggest a Habit of 1.5hrs.
tomasulu
Member
Sharepoint you get harassed because the male colleague knows he can get away with it. I know very well the pressure to go along to get along. But trust me on this the more you allow his behavior to go on (to jiak you) the less respect you'd get work wise. No one disses the alpha male or female of any organization. You get dumped on because you're the chump.
I know all about client entertainment in various part of asia. All I can say is your boss is an ass. A dumb one at that. He brings you there because you're pretty and he likes having a dumb blonde around; it's a sign of disrespect.
I know all about client entertainment in various part of asia. All I can say is your boss is an ass. A dumb one at that. He brings you there because you're pretty and he likes having a dumb blonde around; it's a sign of disrespect.
jo,
"anyway when i said charged what makes you think i go direct to the police? of cause i will inform higher management first right. but obviously it seems that once higher management knows they will keep it internally. you are going to say that my views are clouded again and i have preconceived notions?"
- u have lost credibility with me... (me only of cos, others will still listen to u changing and adding new facts alng the way). i will no longer address u.
good luck to your fren if she's dependning on u for help. i hope as a fren, u do more than post here, and wait to see what happens...
"anyway when i said charged what makes you think i go direct to the police? of cause i will inform higher management first right. but obviously it seems that once higher management knows they will keep it internally. you are going to say that my views are clouded again and i have preconceived notions?"
- u have lost credibility with me... (me only of cos, others will still listen to u changing and adding new facts alng the way). i will no longer address u.
good luck to your fren if she's dependning on u for help. i hope as a fren, u do more than post here, and wait to see what happens...
miloice
Well-Known Member
Powder, yes. Sis returned to hotel by herself with her boss reminding her that the cab fare will not be reimbursable because she wanted to left early on her own behalf. In Batam, the taxi services is quite a mess especially back in the 90s. It was actually quite risky to take cab alone in the night. But, she was too disgusted and pissed to stay on.
sharepoint
Member
Thanks, Matka, I guess I have to be more firm with him on this matter. Sometime I did get some help from my other colleagues when he went too far with his words or actions. Those ‘old birds’ there did tell me to ignore him because they know his character too well and he is doing that to me because I am new.
Ok about the ktv, may be I am partly to be blamed. That’s when I just joined the company and still very green. Actually we didn’t know there is ktv programme after the dinner but the client insisted. My china colleague did ask me whether I am interested to join. Being new and not to be seen as not sociable, I agreed because I thought it’s the kind of ktv that I once went with my friends in Singapore. When we sit down, the client said ‘å«å‡ 个å°å§æ¥å”±å”±æŒåŠ©åŠ©å…´å§â€˜ then he point at me and said â€˜ä½ ä¹Ÿæ¥ä¸€ä¸ªå§â€˜, seriously, at that time, I take it literally from his words that the gals are here to accompany us singing, so I nodded my head. Everything went fine initially and only gets rowdy after the guys have too much liquor. Yes, may be I am naïve then and a green horn but I did tell me boss indirectly about how I felt. Luckily, this type of occasion is not often and I have no problem with client/supplier from this region or the western, most of the time is dinner or drinking session, even from china is not so bad but some Chinese clients can be quite bossy and not as refine/sensitive as compared to others. Now I am smarter to ask and make sure is only dinner/lunch and to reject if needed to. I have rejected to join my boss once after that and he has no problem with it. I have still a lot to learn.
Ok about the ktv, may be I am partly to be blamed. That’s when I just joined the company and still very green. Actually we didn’t know there is ktv programme after the dinner but the client insisted. My china colleague did ask me whether I am interested to join. Being new and not to be seen as not sociable, I agreed because I thought it’s the kind of ktv that I once went with my friends in Singapore. When we sit down, the client said ‘å«å‡ 个å°å§æ¥å”±å”±æŒåŠ©åŠ©å…´å§â€˜ then he point at me and said â€˜ä½ ä¹Ÿæ¥ä¸€ä¸ªå§â€˜, seriously, at that time, I take it literally from his words that the gals are here to accompany us singing, so I nodded my head. Everything went fine initially and only gets rowdy after the guys have too much liquor. Yes, may be I am naïve then and a green horn but I did tell me boss indirectly about how I felt. Luckily, this type of occasion is not often and I have no problem with client/supplier from this region or the western, most of the time is dinner or drinking session, even from china is not so bad but some Chinese clients can be quite bossy and not as refine/sensitive as compared to others. Now I am smarter to ask and make sure is only dinner/lunch and to reject if needed to. I have rejected to join my boss once after that and he has no problem with it. I have still a lot to learn.
sundownprince
New Member
Hweebs> cause I am not the victim and I have to respect her wishes.
that's the twist.
sundownprince
New Member
Dint mean to post twice.
wah powder, that is pretty harsh even though i could understand from a biz's point of view. i would only consider firing if the "victim" makes a big hoo-ha regularly over the slightest matter... i thought you meant something like that in your first post.
but in this actual context of sexual harrassment, it's noteworthy to consider the victim's state of mind as well - confused and vulnerable. of course, i prefer the internal route first, but will not fire her if it's the first time that she goes directly to the police instead. it is not quite the same as committing a grave mistake at work - owing to certain bad habits.
i just thought it may backfire on staff's morale.
but in this actual context of sexual harrassment, it's noteworthy to consider the victim's state of mind as well - confused and vulnerable. of course, i prefer the internal route first, but will not fire her if it's the first time that she goes directly to the police instead. it is not quite the same as committing a grave mistake at work - owing to certain bad habits.
i just thought it may backfire on staff's morale.
well it's related to work and the trust levels towards us to handle the matter and Do the right thing rite? as a boss or even a superior... if the work environment affects someone severely, i think u'd like to be given the chance to address it... rather than one day come office and find 1 fella in remand, and the other still keeping quiet.
yep just why i could see all of that... but underneath it all, it's the momentary lapse of judgement that i would address... probably due to certain fears? prefer to understand her decision and give her a second chance - than to wholly judge it by firing her.
if the poor decision is entirely work-related and is repetitive, then there's no doubt liao.
the thing is - not only in such situations, do you guys also observe that some staff can be quite timid or whatsoever over the smallest thing, despite being given the green light to approach their superiors for work-related stuffs or otherwise?
if the poor decision is entirely work-related and is repetitive, then there's no doubt liao.
the thing is - not only in such situations, do you guys also observe that some staff can be quite timid or whatsoever over the smallest thing, despite being given the green light to approach their superiors for work-related stuffs or otherwise?
nope, we dun have such pple here... the timid types. we require certain requisites/aptitude... some of which will require a dominant force within a person...
when the next momentary lapse of judgment can cost us millions and bring the whole company down financially and in reputation... there is no place for sentiments.
this is not Top Gun where tom cruise can get a second chance to fly again... his character flaw should have gotten him out in the first place. before death occured. the company may not be there to give a 2nd chance if the company ceases to exist...
how do u keep a person Fearing the next lapse of judgment could mean the rest of us all losing our company and jobs? how can u keep a person who doesn't trust the company nor the pple in it... Even if it's just Once? there are some jobs where Once is the only chance u'll ever get. u have to be in that environment to appreciate the pple within such environments... that's why some pple are very highly paid, whilst others can makes mistakes with little consequence, life lost, or money lost.
ps: dude, there's no hard feelings when u tell pple they have to go. i can always recommend them to go elsewhere, just not here... i think u've gotta respect the environment. i know the tendency to say it's harsh and all that...
but i think if u wanted to train an alligator-minder... and the person u train displayed 1 moment where he lost his attention elsewhere... u would ask him to leave, not becos u are harsh, but becos he will die the next time he does not keep his eye on the alligator.
so it's not always a bad thing. i dun wanna go, "oh u lost your attention just for a minute, u still have your whole left arm to use!"
when the next momentary lapse of judgment can cost us millions and bring the whole company down financially and in reputation... there is no place for sentiments.
this is not Top Gun where tom cruise can get a second chance to fly again... his character flaw should have gotten him out in the first place. before death occured. the company may not be there to give a 2nd chance if the company ceases to exist...
how do u keep a person Fearing the next lapse of judgment could mean the rest of us all losing our company and jobs? how can u keep a person who doesn't trust the company nor the pple in it... Even if it's just Once? there are some jobs where Once is the only chance u'll ever get. u have to be in that environment to appreciate the pple within such environments... that's why some pple are very highly paid, whilst others can makes mistakes with little consequence, life lost, or money lost.
ps: dude, there's no hard feelings when u tell pple they have to go. i can always recommend them to go elsewhere, just not here... i think u've gotta respect the environment. i know the tendency to say it's harsh and all that...
but i think if u wanted to train an alligator-minder... and the person u train displayed 1 moment where he lost his attention elsewhere... u would ask him to leave, not becos u are harsh, but becos he will die the next time he does not keep his eye on the alligator.
so it's not always a bad thing. i dun wanna go, "oh u lost your attention just for a minute, u still have your whole left arm to use!"
ya lah powder, that kind of 'environment' is pretty understandable... i could relate to it, because i also don't give a second chance to my operational guys who abruptly screwed up my cilents' schedule and even worse... do not inform the supervior - even if they cite sickness and all that. it's survival style - i couldn't afford to get screwed by my cilents again because of another similar lapse of judgement by the same staff.
am looking at another form of bad call here, which i think is manageable and adjustable such that it won't affect the current environment drastically - bear in mind that i do note that it doesn't apply to your org.
am looking at another form of bad call here, which i think is manageable and adjustable such that it won't affect the current environment drastically - bear in mind that i do note that it doesn't apply to your org.
fair enough, just that there are some here who immediately think i'm harsh and it's harsh and harsh harsh harsh. trying to call it a flaw of mine... i have to explain if they dun have the mental capacity to understand beyond their own world of nice pple, nice jobs, and nice life.
these same pple would not flinch when pple are hung to death or detained or caned or ousted out of our country. but they would fight for "why u so harsh" at work.
these same pple would not flinch when pple are hung to death or detained or caned or ousted out of our country. but they would fight for "why u so harsh" at work.
how do you indentify Sexual harassment from green jokes?
sometimes we do make some green jokes or sexy/kinky jokes whiout knowing it's crossing the borderline of sexual harassment...
specially if you are close friends...
next time a friendly conversation will sound like this
Guy: Excuse me I would like to seek your approval I am going to tell some green kinky joke let me know if this may offend you or not?
Girl: hmmm depends what type of green or kinky joke?
or
after a funny joke by a girl the guy was laughing out load....
Guy : *lols* then suddenly stop and ask question... errr friend can I tap your shoulder coz you just said a very funny joke will it be ok to touch you?
Girl : hmmmm sorry no as this is sexual harassment
guy stop laughing and go...
sometimes we do make some green jokes or sexy/kinky jokes whiout knowing it's crossing the borderline of sexual harassment...
specially if you are close friends...
next time a friendly conversation will sound like this
Guy: Excuse me I would like to seek your approval I am going to tell some green kinky joke let me know if this may offend you or not?
Girl: hmmm depends what type of green or kinky joke?
or
after a funny joke by a girl the guy was laughing out load....
Guy : *lols* then suddenly stop and ask question... errr friend can I tap your shoulder coz you just said a very funny joke will it be ok to touch you?
Girl : hmmmm sorry no as this is sexual harassment
guy stop laughing and go...
Despite common belief sexual harassment in the workplace has been about power and authority rather than sex, but the experience after the attack has proven to be more damaging than the original harassment and has adverse effect in the victims workplace, their family and friends, and the legal system since victims are somehow led to believe they provoked the attack.