seriously just handle it internally within company.. speak to the boss or the superior of the person harassing u.
bringing it to the police will make u less desirable to work with, altho i may side u on this matter, i will offload u once this blows over. i dun like to hold staff who sow discord and seek redress over issues they should be able to handle without involving authorities etc.
Happened to me before. Came from a colleague from another department and in the form of SMS, email and IM, which I ignore totally. Also stopped going out for lunch with him. But when I see him within the office building I will still smile, say hi and exchange a few words.
He knows I am on guard with him but he can't takan me at work cos I conduct myself professionally.
it isn't as straight forward to say the whistle blower will or will not for sure be penalized. Pointless to stick to general opinion specially without any details on the situation. The company reputation is at stake, if there is any case of poor handling and overactions, for sure, the management would not want to keep this staff.
Need to know more to understand if its clearly needed for authorities to be involved and that it cannot be managed internally.
there are those ladies who tend to be uptight... a light accidental brush, or harmlessly looking in a direction where they happen to present their clothes in a revealing manner... u never really know. some are reallybeing uptight, altho i dun dispute that some sexual harassments will occur too. it's the handling that is impt.
i wouldn't use the word 'whistle-blower' cos it makes the harassment seem unwrong. harassment Is wrong, it's just whether u wanna start by taking personal precautions First, like cutting down exposure n proximity, telling the person off In Private and giving him warnings, then telling his superior, and HR etc. BEFORE u seek legal redress.
yes Scope i do... u're very sharp in that assessment. my main problem with personailities has to do with non-existent ones like yours... altho it's adorable to see tiny little dogs barking fiercely, it gets irritating after awhile.
i seriously dun know why your owners unleasehed u and allow u to irritate the neighbours... go chew on a bone or something.
if i am the boss of the company, i would rather keep it within internal and try to resolve the issue.
Firstly, it is not easy to prove sexual harassement, of course, blatant groping or explicit solictations are easy to prove. But i feel, most of the time, its difficult. The other party can always claim he is trying to be friendly, misunderstanding etc.
Also, there is a stigma, usually the whistle blower ( i feel) will also leave the company, why? Simply becos even if the offender is disciplined, tongues will still wag amongst colleagues...can you withstand this?
Thats probably also why alot of sexual harassement are not reported in the press because I think they are usually resolved internally and out of sight.
There are some problems getting this resolved internally, or you fear the repercussions? Or is it that that guy did not stop after being warned and so? I had a female friend who kena this before...that guy was quite an old bird, so after my fren brought this up to her department and etc, the whole department doubted her and thought all this to be her fault. Later on she decided to bring the issue all the way to the top, then finally that cheekopeh got some punishment or something (no bonus plus promotion in the year or something), but my fren ended up being gossiped all around. She left in the end, but felt vindicated in a sense.
While I don't get groped, I'm working with a Malay colleague (married) who makes a lot of comments that are bordering on sexual harrassment (ie he tells me to bend over on his lap or that he "likes them big", or comments on my bra etc...)
Just have to learn to handle it I guess. Initially I tried to ignore him, but after awhile, I learnt that the best way to shut him up is to put him in his place.
Once, he lewdly suggested that I take off my top and my boss happened to walk past my cubicle, he was called in for a "talk" immediately. He's in my dept, so like Doll, I am still cordial to him.
We had once a french boss that always crack all kinds of jokes, some totally inappropriate actually. In one of the interview, the interviewee got so scared that she ran out of the meeting room thinking he was making an indecent proposal.
HR had to assure her that he was only joking and not seriously trying to be funnie. This wasn't an isolated case but everyone that worked with him respect and trust him to know it was just one of his silly corny jokes that isn't so funnie to some people in the asian context. There were people that left the company because they couldn't tolerant working for him. But, that's the minority. Most of us are fine with it.
Anyway, he was promoted and know the new boss reports to him. This new guy is much more 'proper' and serious.
previously happened before to another person (things that happened were consensual from rumors) just called up for chit chat. nothing done. person still persists. lol.
1. so just laught it off and let him persists?
cornering you to do what? for some indecent proposals? And the SMS as well?
Have you spoken to your boss on this? That's the 1st level of escalation. If no action done, speak with HR. Get evidence to support your case. e.g. replying his email or SMS clearly asking him to stop. Keep those exchanges.
As in any organization, there is proper channel of escalation. Find out what is the protocol and push for it to be resolved if its this serious.
wat gives u the idea that "most guys dont think its a big deal"? who thinks it's no big deal here? would u like to point out?
think the 2 schools of thoughts are whether to report externally or internally. and also some questions thrown on the severity of the harassment... if it's physical or very vulgar, then definitely it's someting that should not be tolerated...
but if the guy is just saying "hey pretty..." or maybe cracking dirty jokes in office which isn't directly with u... then just wanna make sure u're not making a mountain out of a mouldhill.
it seems u have a pre-conceived notion abt guys, that is clouding your reading.
Precisely, should be getting clear prove of his harrassments. Singaporeans like to call police for everything thinking its the best way to handle everything. Even if you report police, you would need evidence to back your claims. Unless absolutely required, common sense should tell you that you should try to escalate and manage this internally. IT DOESN'T MEAN its no a big deal. Its precisely because how big a deal it could be that one should exerice more discretion.
I think I understand what Jo means. Do you guys think that females will treat anything small such as a dirty joke as sexual harassment? Note that sexual harassment is intimidation, bullying or coercion of a sexual nature, or the unwelcome or inappropriate promise of rewards in exchange for sexual favors. As long as Jo feels threatened and repulsed by this attention, it IS sexual harassment. The feel I have is that you guys have been trivializing the matter. What? Jo doesn't have the brains to know what is sexual harassment is it?
Jo, will you be able to ask your superior for some advice...couch it that you ask what you should do if a male colleague tries to physically corner you and makes sexual innuendoes and lewd remarks at you? Ask for advice first...see what he suggests. If you feel that it is fair and above board, then you can go on and report, plus that your superior had fair warning. If you get the feel that you are supposed to tolerate it, or that it's just your oversensitivity, you decide: you can make this a big hoo-ha with the HR, then leave, or just leave or transfer to another department where you have no more contact with your harasser.
who is trivializing the matter?
- asking her to provide more details to understand why she isn't able to escalate this internally
- advising her to keep the evidence to make her case. (Evidence of not just his advances but also her warnings to him.)
- finding out more of the escalation protocol
trivializing the matter??
In any allegations, its his words against hers. She definitely need the concrete evidence regardless if she decides to report it to the authorities or internally.
Some really truly selective reading here. Interpretation can be subjective and hence need to really understand the situation and provide various possible views on it. Just because she feels threatened itself might not be sufficient. It doesn't mean she is brainless. Only brainless folks don't realize that.
How is your advise any different? You too asked her to figure out if she was over sensitive or not. Why didn't just ask her to call police? That's really her question. Since its trivializing the matter to advise her otherwise.
in fact, it is in her own words... the conclusion that most guys thinks its no big deal.
"from what i gather from the forum. most guys dont think its a big deal. so if i were to tell the predominantly male bosses they will just think i'm crazy right?"
No one ever said that at all. Just advising her on how to manage it then just thinking above calling the authorities immediately. So, what made her come to that conclusion? I see a possibility and tendency of her coming to her conclusions basing on her clouded ideas. Don't you?
jo, i know where powder and milo come from but they are wrong. their attitude is wrong and their approach is wrong.
i am no lawyer but those two acts are clearly sexual harassment. they are at a min. unacceptable workplace behavior. you don't have to be shy about telling him off (loudly!), going to the boss (speak plainly!) and/or filing a police report. i am a guy and if this were to happen to my loved one, i will not hesitate to have a fist to face confrontation with the guy immediately. you have a brother who is also a gym rat?
duh, obviously you don't have to be a lawyer to conclude that the two examples are forms of sexual harassement - as cited by Jo Ou - although i wish that she would put it down earlier so that the lads' intentions were not misunderstood.
scope, do you confront your boss and tell him off because you don't understand what he's saying?
thank you for your replys. my ideas are definitely clouded and of cause i have preconceived notions. if i did feel comfortable revealing everything i would have voiced out long ago to someone of higher authority. i know the severity of the situation otherwise i would not have termed it sexual haressement. i would have first qnsed the boundaries of it. its not a borderline case but the contents are secondary now since even if you know it would not help. cause i do not have the courage to speak in real life. i am weak. i admit it. and i cannot accept the repurcussions that it would have on the affected parties. anyhow thanks for your different views.