Qns for the professionals ..Do you work hard or are you lucky?

[girlytomato]

I've been working for more than 10 yrs (changed 5 jobs) and have a degree but it seems than I never move up. My salary is only slightly above 30k annually. I'm not sure if is because I didnt work hard enough or I do not have luck.. (some frds told me that career need luck too).

Hope some of the working professionals here can help me to answer some of the qns here.. (preferred earning >40K annually/managerial ).

1) How many years did u work to be in ur current position / your pay?
a) less than 5 years
b) 5-10years
c) >10 years
d) >20 years

2) What you achieve now is depend on
a) hard work
b) smart
c) luck
d) all the above

3) Do you make careless mistakes and how do you handle it?

4) What advices will you give to someone who wanna climb the ladder?

Thank you very much

 

[kittenpie]

1) How many years did u work to be in ur current position / your pay?
a) less than 5 years

2) What you achieve now is depend on
d) all the above

3) "I will get it changed immediately, thanks for pointing out the error". do not panic, do not assign blame to another person, don't defensive "i did not sleep enough, blur". be calm, gracious and appreciative of the person who pointed out the error and take criticism constructively. if you carry yourself with professionalism, it is harder for people around you to tear you down.

4) All the above PLUS, professionally presentable looks, EQ, temperament, charisma, gracious mannerism befitting your status and office are a Must.


be willing to think deeply, think deeper, than any other person.

do you, as a junior staff, care enough about your work to read the emails thoroughly and repeatedly while you are on the train?

do you keep abreast of industry changes or do you need someone to remind you of the new standards?

do you aim to help your boss think of a way that surpasses all the current hinderances, or are you fixated with daily tasks.

if you occupy yourself with menial tasks, then your job scope will stay menial.

if you aim to score meaningful achievements, then you are onto something better.

just some suggestions ...

 

[kittenpie]

from what i observe, many times (in a non-sales type of role), the people who climb, have the soft attributes that higher-ups appreciate.

they are eloquent and on a social level, these are often the people the bosses are willing to associate with.

in some cases, it is not about what you know, it is about who is willing to TALK to you.

once a superior is willing to TALK to you, then doors will gradually open. TALK could be mentoring, or TALK could be no-holds-barred sharing of job and company related issues.

you may have a lot of job-related knowledge, but you might not be able to express yourself in a way that a superior may want to look to you. such case is applicable to some people ... if it is applicable to you, change the way you speak to be more professional and more compelling to listeners. change the way you dress to look sharper. if you are a lady, put on some make-up to look smart and alert.

 

[miloice]

Possible reasons for the non progression.... your career choice and lack of networking and mkting yourself? No point changing jobs without a strategic progression. Not dynamic and not biz minded enough. You need to understand the management priorities and lingo. Don't report your issue to them. Push solutions with benefits and impacts in terms they can understand and quantify.

Have you ponder what you will do in 6 mths, 2 yrs and 5 yrs? And if yes, what have you done to work towards them?

I agree with what May said. Getting to know the right person in the corporate is very fundamentally key to the progression.

Your questions :-
1) How many years did u work to be in ur current position / your pay?
a) less than 5 years
b) 5-10years
c) >10 years
d) >20 years

I worked for just over 12 yrs since graduating. I switched career after 5.5 yrs in my 1st job. And made 6 internal new appointments within the current employment.

2) What you achieve now is depend on
a) hard work
b) smart
c) luck
d) all the above

all of the above and more.

3) Do you make careless mistakes and how do you handle it?

for sure, I correct and contain the risk and impact. And if required, escalate and apologize with action plan on how to avoid this in future.

4) What advices will you give to someone who wanna climb the ladder?
See above.

 

[vios]

1) How many years did u work to be in ur current position / your pay?
a) less than 5 years

2) What you achieve now is depend on
a) hard work
b) Street-smart

3) Do you make careless mistakes and how do you handle it?
- Of cos we all would. For myself, i would first apologise and then work closely with colleagues to rectify the issue. There's no point finding excuses or attribute external factors other than myself. Bosses/Customers would tend to mellow down, anyway.

4) What advices will you give to someone who wanna climb the ladder?
- EQ + Critical Thinking are vital tools, amongst all.

 

[miloice]

The thing about handling issues and mistakes, be objective and professional. Even if others are behaving badly. Focus on the issues at hand.

If its beyond your level or requires your management support, present your case. Its biz impact, your proposal (not long details but it impacts, effort required in terms of costs, leadtime and worklow).

When done, then you can report according and conduct a complete analysis and post mortem with the objective to avoid reoccurence. Mostly, big mistakes points to either failure in the system / process or the individual lying and/or not performing their duties correctly due to lack of skillset / responsible attitute.

 

[karvna]

1) Less than 5 years, pay > $200,000 annually.

2) a and b: being smart is one thing, I have to work like a dog to get to where I am today.

3) Remember your mistakes and don't ever make them again!

4) Depends on your qualifications. If yours is a general degree, then good luck. You can work for donkey years as an employee and still get the same pay, might as well start a business on your own.

 

[girlytomato]

Hi May, Milo, and Vios.. thank you so much for sharing. Really appreciate very much for the good advices..
I noticed 3 of you mentioned about EQ and street-smart. EQ and being street smart are thru your experience? learning from others? Or do I need to be naturally smart to be able to have good EQ skills ? Haiz.. now I start to doubt whether if my mentality is average or below average..

Aside to Karvna..wow!! $200K annually for less than 5 yrs? Care to share what are you working as?

My bf always comment that maybe I didnt work hard enough..
However, my job is quite stagnant. I always find ways to improve.. but my job scope are very routine.. and now u can see.. i so free, surfing and chatting here.. I wondering is it me or is it my job ?

 

[miloice]

Tomato, it has both elements of experience and in born traits and personality. All influences it. Some people are very natural negotiators and with get influencing ability.

We definitely can help improve it with constant self evaluation and practice. To see if your EQ skills har... do you find yourself fighting your colleagues or family or friends? And how do u deal with sensitive people on the whole. How do you handle conflicts? That should be very clear indication.

Its not just how hard you work but working hard effectively. You need to sell yourself and negotiate for terms. 5 jobs and still 30k, goes to show you do not do much of both selling nor negotiation.

If you want to progress, gotta let your boss know you can help him beyond your current scope. Spending 200% on your job scope isn't going to do that. Always try to align what you are doing with your boss objectives. Better still if your big bosses know too. Befriend the management. When you are good friends with management, even your manager would see you differently. Actually, these tips are basic survival. Not guru secrets to climb. You ought to know them.

 

[girlytomato]

"5 jobs and still 30k, goes to show you do not do much of both selling nor negotiation. "
quite sad lor.. =(

I do not have a mentor to guide me how to fight. All my previous jobs really quite stagnant, and I am always very low profile..

Do you think I should take up some course to improve my skills ?

 

[miloice]

You don't need a mentor. You need to be more dynamic and excited about your career. You sit there passively, if I'm your boss, I will be happy to keep you there quiet in a corner without complaints.

Taking course alone isn't going to help. You need to first find your drive and goal. Find out what you want in your career. What are your immediate, mid term and long term goals. After you got that figured out, then plan what is needed to realize that. The course should be something useful to realize your goals not an aimless session sitting there in the classroom hoping for a pay raise after that.

 

[poitto]

I think taking up courses related to work is good... As u mentioned that job has been stagnant, can you throw in new ideas/concepts to improve productivity?

And perhaps everytime u decided to change job, make sure that there is at least a 10% increment before switching? or switch when 'hang qing' is good...

 

[powder]

Tomato,

I'm gonna be blatant n honest here... The reason why u dun make headway is precisely in the very questions u ask... They are neither helpful nor motivating. U will just end up with "noted" and life goes on, tomorrow will be another day, nothing changes.

Also, If u're not sure if u're working hard enough, then I can tell u in absolute certainty that u Have Not worked hard enough, not at all, maybe even purely an act when u do.

Your questions seeks to compare and derive what u think u should get, it does not make u a better person nor smarter one... It just gives u info that u Might have a chance to do better. That Is Not good enough.

The questions u Should ask is "why did I, do I choose this career path", "why did I change jobs the last 4 times"... These questions will lead u to know more about yourself. If I were to make an assessment from your posts thus far, I would think that u are 1. Clueless, directionless, 2. Lazy n within comfort zone, 3. Expecting instead of Working For.

Your proactiveness thus far is used wrongly and might just be a smokescreen to keep yourself in denial that u're actually gonna get somewhere.. Well u're not. If u wanna break out of this level of income, u gotta ask yourself if your superiors are even possessing the income u seek... If they're not, what makes u think u can get there even if u're promoted with increments?

I have written a lot of posts in this forum on career advancement and mindset. U might like to read as many as u can... U also have to learn to look at the ceiling and not the floor... In order to break the 10k ceiling, I had to give up 7-8k job and start at 1.2k... This is of cos abit extreme, but it's just to illustrate the importance of looking at ceilings instead of floor. A lot of sporeans look at the floor, therefore they never saw the ceiling above them until they hit it.

Taking up courses is like the most idiotproof answer to careers.. Much like how some pple only know how to encourage counselling when relationship problems are met. These are useless suggestions that will only benefit u if they know exactly what sort of industryu're in, what specialty u hold etc... Else dun even bother with such advice. It is no different from the gov asking u to go for WIS or some other schemes.. It is only Relevant to some pple, a minority, in improving their lives.

Unfortunately it is a little late now, and I'd like to see your answer before I share more. If u really wanna climb the ladder, u gotta first make sure u're equipped for it, and also be certain the ladder doesn't only have only 4 rungs and u're at 50k ceiling liao.

30k aiming for 40k is as good as not aiming... It won't happen. Learn how to set goals before u set off trying to achieve them.

I shall not even touch on leaving for small increments... If 10% makes a difference to u moving, u're better off never having started this thread. Aim low, achieve low...

 

[tomasulu]

luck can come in some many forms. your family background/connections, the abilities you were born with, even the economic situation the year you graduated - it is so much easier to find a good job when the economy is booming. it is pointless to talk about 'luck' because it is what it is and you are who you are. what you want is to make your own luck.

i find the book - how to become ceo - by jeff fox to be useful. i am usually not a big fan of self help books but this book may give you some insight and more importantly, some inspiration.

 

[thommy]

what did u graduate in first of all?

like someone else mentioned above, if its a general degree, u can't go really far in ur career path.

 

[tomasulu]

i really dislike such statements. it's egregiously wrong and it's self defeating. it is almost as dumb as saying you can't get far without a degree.

 

[simpleman]

4) Depends on your qualifications. If yours is a general degree, then good luck. You can work for donkey years as an employee and still get the same pay, might as well start a business on your own.

ike someone else mentioned above, if its a general degree, u can't go really far in ur career path.


What sort of crap logic is this? A degree or a diploma or a cert is just a piece of paper. It may be a general requirements for an entry to a job but that is its main purpose.

How far you go depends on what you want and how yo want it.

 

[twinkleng]

yep its not about the type of degree / qualification that you have.. more about how you go about obtaining your goals..etc

you mentioned that you've worked for 10 years and switched jobs 5 times.. that mighty a lot of times...

Would you be able to tell us what are u currently doing now? maybe we can move on from there and provide you with more relevant advice. e.g you may have a degree but if u're currently working as a admin assistant. then u'll definitely not see the 10k a month scenerio.

last but not least... think most of us here who's earning > 60k per annum within 5 years sure like our asses off!! so maybe u wanna try that first and see if u'll be recognized and get your dues

 

[denise80]

1) How many years did u work to be in ur current position / your pay?
a) less than 5 years
b) 5-10years
c) >10 years
d) >20 years

Ans: b

2) What you achieve now is depend on
a) hard work
b) smart
c) luck
d) all the above

Ans: d

3) Do you make careless mistakes and how do you handle it?
Of course. No man is infallible. Be honest, own up. Then propose solution, get clearance and move on fast. Be efficient. Minimise the impact and of course, remember not to repeat. Learn from your mistake.

4) What advices will you give to someone who wanna climb the ladder?
Work hard, Work Smart & if you're not good with words, learn to be more outspoken and articulate. Don't be a conformer all the time. Doing everything swee swee doesn't mean you're good. It just means you're a good worker, at most an efficient worker. You need to show that you have the bigger picture. If you apply for the post of a manager, make sure you think, act and work like vice-president. If you apply for vice-president post, think, act and work like a president. Hope you roughly got my drift.

 

[babystorm]

Sm, it's basically crap lor. A degree cert is just a piece of paper to wipe your ass, not literally of course.

Look at those people around you. Not all who earns big bucks owns a cert. Likewise, not all who owns a cert makes big bucks. Sometimes you need that bit of luck because even if you work hard, work smart, has high EQ or IQ or whatever means you can climb very high.

 

[powder]

tat's why i think that sporeans are a clueless lot when it comes to such matters... worse part is they seek advise and listen to the wrong pple... father, mother, relative, fren...

u notice how many pple still live on past 'facts' and recommendations? yup, this is spore!

 

[babystorm]

Powder, from what I read from your posts, you are not in the 'rat race' eh? May I know what business you are in? So you do your own investments, property investments, etc?

 

[powder]

Hi miyako,

I'm not a biz man, I'm an employee like most. I'm just well-remunerated becos of the right logical decisions I made.

 

[kittenpie]

powder, are you in sales/ biz development?

what is your industry ...

im curious ...

 

[babystorm]

Powder, right logical decisions? Are you like a business analyst or holding a management post in the financial industry?

 

[powder]

I'm in the energy sector... I have the same title and designation for the last decade... Basically a middleman mediating and negotiating deals between companies.

 

[powder]

Miyako,

Management not for me, I am a foot soldier general... Not an advisor to emperor... I'm a doer, not a manager... I like to mediate, solve problems and iron out details to benefit the parties I represent.

 

[girlytomato]

Hi powder, I am really gladful that you are being blatant n honest. Some of what u said did awakes me ...
To be truthful.. I always came with fighting spirit when I just joined a company. However, this will only last me for a few months, and I will become lazy in the comfort zone. I always believe I can do better..
I wonder is it because of the industry (manufacturing) I have chosen. Should I change industry ? This also bothers me cause I am not young (in my 30s) to start all over again.. Its really sad when I know I am not young, still clueless about how I spend my past 10 yrs , envying pple who earn more than me and love their jobs.. I want to WAKE UP!!
Powder.. what u said is true "sporeans are a clueless lot when it comes to such matters... worse part is they seek advise and listen to the wrong pple... father, mother, relative, fren... " I hate listening to my dad (he retires from the government).. always telling me to be satisfied with my current job and keep telling me how many pple are jobless , I should be glad that i have a job ?!?! omg !! and my bf also.. keep telling me that how fortunate I am, to be able to surf net during working hours ?!?!

Hi Eileen, I am currently working in manufacturing industry as project management. Its not convenient to mention my designation here cos I knew some of my colleagues read this forum.. my level is definately not mangerial.

Thomas .. I am holding an Australia university degree in business administration .

 

[miloice]

Tomato, I left my 1st job only after over 5 yrs there. Actually, I'm also in manufacturing and services biz. Its a big industry with gigantic China mkt.

 

[thommy]

tomato, u may want to take up some courses to further enhance your profile. decide on where u wanna go first, be it continuing in the manufacturing industry or something new.

all the best.

 

[powder]

tomato,

90% of it is u... the rest of it are less consequential... there's 10-20k-earners in manufacturing too, so why aren't u amongst them? or would u think it's becos u have no chance, or u're too young? well there's a host of reasons that contributes, but remember u contribute 90%.

it's good to have fighting spirit, but fighting spirit is good if u're in quota-based/commission-based jobs that Reward u for fighting... if u're a nurse with fighting spirit or a teacher with fighting spirit... u fight what? win what?

if u are seeking career advancement with fighting spirit, then look at the choice of job u picked (yes You). now u know why your fighting spirit will be absolutely USELESS nomatter how much of it u have? so that's why u're Clueless, but then u're not the only one... thousands of sporeans are clueless... something so simple that only takes u 10mins of common sense to figure out, u didn't... so u would not be a very good problem-solver either.

u are a cheongster with nowhere to cheong, dun know how to cheong, nor is there anything for u to cheong. u either find a place that rewards u for Cheong-ing, or u dun cheong, but look for Other strong points abt u to use to the best effect.

u know HOW MANY pple believe they can do better, believe they are better, believe they will one day get a better life? most of them have 1 thing in common - they believe and do Nothing... just talk talk talk... discuss, end of the day they go home sleep, next morning wake up go to the same job.

i have had countless arguments with pple on forums... alot of them got decent degrees, good results, fluent command of english and basically their fathers teachers frens all Think they should have a bright future. but most of them lack humility... when i mentioned i hold a diploma, somehow many of them think they're already better than me and has a god-given right to do better than me... Dun ever fall into this train of thought - where u think u are worth More by virtue of having a certification from lecturers and teachers, and the belief of parents. society tells u that u are worth alot... but end of the day u look at your paycheck, u have Truth staring at u.

i'll be very honest with u, u went to aust and got yourself a degree... But your english-literacy may only be half of mine. mr. diploma. i hope u get my point from this... u dun have to feel embarassed, the way i will never feel lesser with a diploma.

learn to take things positively, most of the things i tell u, not many pple dare tell u, or will tell u.

your dad is using an extreme negative to justify an average situation and make that average situation look appealing... i have little regard for pple who do that. i acknowledge the contributions of our older generation, but most of them lack the mental ability to compete in today's world... if your dad and me are the same age, i will be earning double his pay in less than 3yrs. it's simple as that... no DISrespect to dad or others... some of them are still living on past solutions. (typo here earlier)

as for your bfren - i dun even wanna mention. As far as career is concerned... u dun have to ask him... he has totally different set of priorities and it has nothing to do with progress, but enjoyment.

IF u are really keen on advancing your career n realising as much of your potentials as u can, u gotta realize it's Serious business... not something u say say whenever u feel down, then next day nothing happens. 8 out of 10 pple here are either not that happy abt their job, or pay, or environment... and 6 of these 8 pple will do nothing but procrastinate and chuck things aside. u are amongst the 6 pple now... u figure how Not to be amongst them.

your life won't change simply becos u wait...

 

[miloice]

Actually, its very important to choose the right career.

Different careers have different kind of progression and ceiling. My wife is in banking sector doing corp finances. Her path is steadily planned for her. Since we started working there, her annual enumeration just kept growing from below 30k to more than double. And her bonuses are in the region of 6 months. This is without the need to go much of any extra mile for negotiation or anything.

She know she is having it easier than me. Changing teams, negotiating and reviewing my package regularly. The ceiling for manufacturing biz is clearly lower. But, in a big organization, there are lots of opportunities to job rotation which keeps it interesting and fun for me. Also, the room to push for more adjustments as well.

 

[kenturik]

Ceilings are for people whom are half-filled, not that hungry but still hungry.... when you are hungry what do you do? Look for food? Yet after eating you are still hungry??? look for more food. The problem starts when you are full, you tend to be lazy, you rest, you sleep, you 'relac one corner lah'.....
You starts to hibernate in that comfort zone once you achieve your ceiling..... your desire to go further stops...
That is the difference between someone whom is successful and those who lags behind constantly.
And then they starts to complain why their friends are better off, why they could afford all the worldly materials..... because they never stop to rest and even if they did it was momentarily, to gain the right foothold and leap again.

 

[bedokboy]

now this topic is a little close to my heart. I shall share with everyone my latest job.

1 year ago, I joined this organisation as a sales-person. i joined because I was told of certain terms (commission structure) which was the main reason why I joined. I was confident that I could come here and earn a lot more than my previous job, provided I hit my targets.

1. Upon joining, the commission structure was not quite what I was told it was. There were certain requirements which had to met to 'unlock' the commissions and I was not told of these 'requirements'. Such 'requirements' if revealed first to the potential candidate should typically scare senior salespersons like me away because we only know how to put revenue on the table in the products we know best, and not need to go through the 'requirements' by selling other products we are not comfortable with.

Is this bad luck?

2. I did not ask for a portfolio of clients to be given to me because I was confident I could bring my own. However, as the workload was too heavy for the whole platform, I had to be distributed some. Despite taking up my time to bring my own clients in, I acceded to this decision. Furthermore this would also buy me time as there is a non-solicitation clause from the previous organisation not to talk to clients for 6 months.

Is this bad-luck?

3. I turned out to be one of the more senior guys in my team and within 1-2 months was tasked with more duties than the rest. I worked 10 hour days, sometimes 12 so as to facilitate processes and initiatives for the whole platform as the place was new and needed someone who knew more than the rest. The rest of the team went home at 6pm. Subsequently I was asked to lead a team and drop my sales hat. Thinking back over the years in working I knew that having a good direct boss was very important. I was on good terms with my direct boss and I was not sure if having a new supervisor over me in between me and my direct boss would be too unpredictable to plan my career in this place. Furthermore, seeing as the platform really needed someone to step up, I accepted the offer. For this my pay was increased by SGD200.

Is this bad-luck?

4. Some months back I identified a particular issue on offer and within one day I cleared the stock. What was lauded as good initiative by my boss at the beginning of the month became selfish and thinking for myself at the end of the month by my same boss when others began to complain that there was no more stock to sell.

Is this bad luck?

5. Over time, the platform grew and another team manager was needed. To the best of my judgment, I recommended my old and good friend and he came on board. There is no issue of competitiveness between us but because he is more experienced he was doing his job better than me over the next few months and invariably our boss compared us. To be fair we have very differing leadership styles and his is seen to be more hands-on and on-the-ball, whilst mine is more in the background -identifying market opportunities for my guys and asking them to react, planning and preparing strategies to be pro-active and be ready for market changes, sophisticated relationship-building skills that I share with my guys, etc. A neutral observer may say that I am more suited to manage mature experienced individuals, whilst my friend is more suited to manage newcomers to the industry. But my boss does not seem to be mindful of this and recent appraisal, he was promoted and given $500. I was not but given another $200.

Is this bad luck?

6. For my role, I am underpaid by market by about 30-40%. To be fair, the other 2 supervisors are also around the same pay by about 5-10%. After having stayed 1 year here, the 2 increments I have received over the past year have not put me on par with industry standard. I am still 30-40% away from market rate.

Is this bad luck?

I don't think I am complaining, just listing the issues matter-of-factly, otherwise I would have been gone by now.

Just wondering what you guys think that's all.

 

[muji]

Sounds like an interesting question from you and for myself too..
1) How many years did u work to be in ur current position / your pay?
a) less than 5 years
b) 5-10years
c) >10 years
d) >20 years

Ans: 5 Years

2) What you achieve now is depend on
a) hard work
b) smart
c) luck
d) all the above

None of the above. Depends largely on my love for the work I do. I enjoy doing and have always wanted to do.

3) Do you make careless mistakes and how do you handle it?

Of course. Acknowledge, apologize accept. Correct if possible, if not, rem it so that it is not repeated. People can give you one chance, but most often, not another.

4) What advices will you give to someone who wanna climb the ladder?
Know why you want to climb it and how badly you want it.

 

[stanzza]

Hi Tomato,

it's not about the degree as in the paper. Is about what knowledge and skill set have you obtained from the degree course? Today, in Singapore, everything is done "out of textbook".

I have done 4 tertiary course (science, engineering,IT and Biz) with highest being mba.

Moved a few department. What I saw in every industry is that, in this era, at an ad hoc level everybody is doing things based on concept and knowledge you have already learnt in school. There is nothing I could not identify with what I have already learnt...

There are 2 types of grad I have seen so far: 1st type are those whom claim that the "real" world does not make used of anything they learnt in school. The 2nd type claim that everything they learnt in school are used and more.

Normally, the 1st type are the ones whom didn't learn anything and are only exam smart. Thus, they could not identify what they are shown, with what they had learnt before. The 2nd type are the ones whom would do well.

You are in project management. Do you understand project management methodology fully? Within time, within scope, within budget, within quality = project success. Do you do a proper and correct wbs, project schedule and plan. Do you analysis your critical path? Do you engage your stakeholder and identify whom are the positive and negative stake holders, their reason for being +ve and negative and plan ur strategy early?
Do you understand cultural sensitivity esp when working w offshore partners such as indonesia? Are you able to convince, motivate others of the project objective and vision? Do you manage ur risk properly? Do you know and is skilled on how to deal with political obsticals that is hindering the project? Do you drive your project objective hard?
Project management also require the person to have 3 core skills. Technical skill, project management skil and management skill to be successful. Are you well equip or are you short?

In my exp, I have met tons of ppl whom are doing project management. But only a few whom truly "knows" how to do project management. Most ppl just wack. Those who knows are the successful PM. Those whom dunno are the not so successful PM.

PM getting less than 40K annum... This cannot be under normal circumstances. A decent PM is earning way above that. In my first yr after uni graduation as PM I was already earning > than that. A PM gets pay raise v often due to project success. I got 2-3 increment in my first yr alone... This is the same for my other frds.

I would guess that you enter this trade as a project engineer and still is now, because this cannot be the pay scale for a PM. If that's the case, you should look into your skillset and maybe move into a PM role. A PM require much more soft and hard skill, personal attributes. You have to make the big transistion. I have worked on very difficult projects. Most of the time, the key obstacles are human and political. You have to be sensitive, smart and plan your strategy/approach early in the game as well. It is not an easy job being a PM..

I suspect you do not possess all the PM skills and esp the technical skills relevent to your project require to do a PM job, like many PM I have met, thus is now suffering. If this is the case, maybe you might wish to ungrade your knowledge and skillset in these area. I see that can be the case as you hold a BA degree. Now, U have to understand in PM, the pre-requisite to be able to handle a project is technical knowledge, PM knowledge and management knowledge. You won't be successful lacking in any 1 area.

Try go for knowledge and upgrade yourself in the area required for your job. Talk to some successful project managers and ask them to speak honestly where you could improve. I'm sure that would help you, because PM is a good pay job =) (I'm out of it now though).

Sorry I don't meant to to be negative =) just want to help u see the light. I apologise if I offended.

 

[powder]

stanzza,

i think that's precisely what she needs... definitely not offensive but highly factual. alot of local pple just dun explore enough... and doesn't help that our previous generation are so hung up on company loyalty and having a 1-company career versus 1-industry. it's a good time for this topic to come abt.

 

[miloice]

stazza, great post.

Tomato, 40k as PM is really pretty low. Does it mean your scope is probably very limited hence they are not willing to pay more for you? What exactly are you managing? In the manufacturing context, you could probably look at moving on to Program management where your exposure is beyond your team and project.

 

[girlytomato]

Hi stanzza, thank so much for sharing.. what you say could be very helpful but seems not in my case..

Let me share abit on the situation in my company. This company started off as a family business, so there is quite alot of "own" people in this company. 40% of the managers worked here for 10 to 20 years before they get this position . Another 40% of the managers worked here for 4-8yrs that get promoted,are those of very high profile (well-liked by management). 20% are new (about 1-2 yrs in this company) but they have >5 yrs experience in manufacturing industry..
As for those who are at same level as me in the same SBU.. 80% worked here for >5yrs and are happy with what they are.. I don't want to be that 80% !!

 

[girlytomato]

Hi Milo.. I am not PM ya.. only PE =(

We are program management , just that we don't call it program management here, we call project management..

 

[miloice]

hi tomato, ic, so you are in charge of the entire program to realize the biz from opportunity to deployment and production?

 

[powder]

bedok,

u are a nice guy, pretty sure u're nicer than me. u are also a smart guy, Darn sure much more well-read than me. u have a wayyyy brighter future than me at point 1 and point 2... that i'm certain.

here's the "BUT"... But, u dun get to do more with all the character traits that u possess, which outweighs me 2 to 1. simply becos u are too nice to compete and grab what u want... and too much of a gentleman to be more aggressive. guys like u will thrive under Very good leaders who take the Intiative to reward... but u will wither and die under leaders who dun. Sadly, not many leaders are good ones, and even if they are, not many good ones have the time to look after your welfare 24/7. u are expected to be more vocal abt certain things, particulalry pertaining to your own rewards.

i'm half the person u are... but i'm just as nice... i can take lower pay and suffer, but i Also look after my welfare and my worth. looking after my welfare and seeking to be paid my worth - IS Taking care of my family... mum, wife, kids and all... DUN Ever discredit your worth, and your family's efforts in u... by being nice to pple who won't even bother if u're in the obituaries tomoro.

u now have 3 choices... 1. prepare your mind, and ask for a deserving raise... 2. prepare your resume and move by sept... 3. from where u are now - relentlessly pursue your worth before u contribute over and beyond your expectations.

some pple think that by performing beyond expectations - they will be rewarded. there seems to be this assumption that all bosses can't wait to reward u... but is this a reality?

Once u've completed your trainee-ship, intern-ship, or junior positions... THAT is When u negotiate your remuneration. once u figure that u are bringing in 500k-1mil in profits a year just solely on your own, that is when u negotiate your salary + bonus. it should not be on a wait & see.

if the company can't pay, u pay yourself... u walk away to the highest bidder.

 

[powder]

now bedok... the problem with being nice within companies and with colleagues... is that it's not always guaranteed to put food and money in your table... most times money remains a sensitive undiscussed issue... pple think it's a dirty word associated with greed.

sadly... if u're a nice person, u'd be negoiating for as much as u can be paid... and using the excess money to do Nice things... sponsor students or do charity...

 

[kittenpie]

powder, im curious.

it seems that you are very good in your job. and you have pointed out very many times that you only have a diploma.

how did you manage to make that jump from a typical diploma type work to the one you are having now that helps you draw the big bucks?

you have been sharing many useful principles, but would you mind telling us about the step by step how you charted your path over the years?

everyday, we open the newspapers and the classifieds are all looking for people with a specific educational background and existing work experience. how do you start from ground zero without the 'educational prerequisites'?

 

[girlytomato]

Hi Milo.. u are right except for the biz opportunity..my job includes design,logistics, fulfilment, adminstration, deployment, production, problem-shooting etc etc except for Biz opportunity which is the scope of the business development dept.

 

[sgbabydoll]

Hi Tomato, it seems you are doing a lot too in your job, but do you just execute following your supervisor's plans?

 

[girlytomato]

ya .. same as May.. I also want to know ..

powder , please share ..

"how did you manage to make that jump from a typical diploma type work to the one you are having now that helps you draw the big bucks?

you have been sharing many useful principles, but would you mind telling us about the step by step how you charted your path over the years?

everyday, we open the newspapers and the classifieds are all looking for people with a specific educational background and existing work experience. how do you start from ground zero without the 'educational prerequisites'?"

 

[girlytomato]

Hi doll.. ya .. the culture here is to follow the plans..

When I just joined the company, I am really "on" to Q&A, always giving suggestions to improve the workflow.. However, my manager will just shut me off..
Am I too aggressive at the start?
This caused me to think that I am doing it all wrongly at the first place or probably I am lacking EQ skills . Somehow, I find that my PM doesnt like me.. Always correcting me and never praise me.. thats how my 3rd qns come about " 3) Do you make careless mistakes and how do you handle it? ". I am not afraid of making mistakes in the beginning, now I am quite fearful of..

Now, I no longer have that fighting spirit I used to have.. no longer giving suggestions.. I find it no point..
My work are very routine.. everyday the same..

 

[powder]

May,

i dun say "only" a diploma hor... reason why i mention my diploma is to let those without strong academics know that it's not the end of the world... and to let the degree holders know it's not guaranteed success... just giving a dash of reality.

i didn't exactly jump... i just built up my soft skills from ground-sales becos i know it's needed regardless of industry. even as a teacher u'll need to know how to sell yourself to the students, parents n principals mah... so spent some time in that first - learn humans. it's not really a jump tho... assuming i have a chems-diploma, i just look at the jobs tat pay, that require some chems background. regardless of your discipline - there will always be job-scopes that pay... find that.

path by path is abit tough... too long liao... might be too specific and it's never good to be that specific... pplewill pick out details to Excuse themselves. (this part may be hard to understand what i'm saying). it might be detrimental for u, for me to be too specific...

but let's just say i was born with 2 gifts... 1. common sense, 2. logic. these are 2 very impt gifts for me... actually most pple have it, just that they are seldom used. pple opt instead to believe in 'old facts', 'old statistics', 'recommended advice' and many other things... some of which Defies logic and spits into the face of common sense.

ref "we open the newspapers and the classifieds are all looking for people with a specific educational background and existing work experience. how do you start from ground zero without the 'educational prerequisites'?"

- on 2 occasions... i networked and got inside pple to help put my resume on the table... on more than a few occasions, i seeked to have coffee with the hiring manager. these are things that i bet 9.5 out of 10 forummers here Would Not do... most would just send resume and wait at home. and there u have it - common sense.

what gives me an edge over others? definitely not my diploma, isit? so why should i kid myself that sending a resume is gonna get me an interview? even then, what makes me think that i can get thru if i'm only judged on academics?

u see my posts... how diploma-ish do u think i am? if i didn't put a Personality to myself... my chances would be like most - 2%? and so i made sure my face is seen, my personality is felt. and all these comes back to my short stint after poly, working as a ground sales-person.

nothing to it... just alot of logic and common sense. i'm as normal as most... jsut that when i want something, i dun give myself excuses.

surprisingly, these 2 short clips from the same movie... actually summarises how i see life, and the attitude i carry since i was 14. enjoy... Listen to the logic and common sense as applied to reality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHRvCYC4Iuo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z5OookwOoY&feature=related

 

[kittenpie]

Powder, am i right to say that one of your strengths is the ability to build wide network of friends that can help you connect to the right opportunities?