Problem with future FIL

[missyyee]

Hi ladies, it's going to be a long story...

BF and I are 26 this year. We've been together for 8 years and figured that it's time for us to look for a flat and ROM when the flat arrives. Both of our families have been urging us to get married and they are very supportive of our r/s.

We're looking into Built to Order (BTO) flats as we do not want to be cash-drain after paying COV for resale and reno. Furthermore, we made plans for save up while waiting for our flat to be built. HDB released a BTO at Punggol and we applied for it. We will only know the Q number by September.

Before applying, we discussed with our respective parents for suggestions and after getting the green light, we went ahead. The both of us were filled with excitment, especially my Bf. He loves Punggol and keep asking me what if we manage to get a good Q no etc. I can see how much he wants it. I was really happy to see him so willing to participate in our future.

There comes the issue...

Over dinner last night, in front of BF's mum, brother and brother's GF, his father told him that he has an agent friend who can scout for resale flats for him. If he want to, his father can lend us the money for COV and to return him on a monthly basis. My BF replied (nicely and calmly) that it's okay, we like Punggol. Furthermore, we're just applying. No guarantee that we'll get a good Q number.

And his Father flared up. He started shouting at my BF saying now that he's old enough, he wants to move out. Since BF started working (Project Enginner, 3K/mth), he can make stupid decisions etc. He even scolded the Mother in front of everyone! Saying my BF is as stupid as the Mother (Ie. Do not use brain to think and like a place just based on liking). In order not to upset his Mother, my BF kept quiet and allowed his Father to throw his temper on them in front of the younger brother (24) and his GF (18). After dinner, my BF returned to his room and related everything to me via MSN. In the midst of our conversation, his Father came into the room and ordered him to move out within 3 months.

I am at a lost. I want to ask my BF if he wants to give up the BTO application but at the same time, I know how much this BTO means to the both of us. But I do not want this to ruin the r/s between them...

Any advice?

 

[powder]

ask the father for his fren's contacts... then meet that uncle and tell that him abt your BTO and plans... if that uncle is decent, he'll help u guys to talk to the Father (seeing how no one at the table have any ability to talk to him).

keep to the BTO, doesn't cost much anyway... meantime get someone to talk to the father... your bfren got 3mths...

ps: if the father is that unreasonable, then no advice can really make him reasonable suddenly

 

[infojunkie]

forget abt that old man lah, he needs anger management...

 

[missyyee]

Powder,

Your idea is good. We should ask to meet the uncle and see if he has acceptable suggestions.

Thanks!

Sadly, the Father is THAT unreasonable. He is so used to have everyone going by what he wants that he refused to accept any other wants or reasons.

Sigh. I didn't dare to seek advice from my own parents for fear they might change opinion or impression of my future ILs.

 

[missyyee]

Another issue is that we do not want to borrow any money from his Father because knowing his character, he'll throw his weights around, demanding us to do this and that, just because he lent us the money for the flat.

I'm afraid that upon meeting the agent friend, the Father will openly announced that he can lend us the money. I shudder at the thought when we tell him we dont want to borrow money from him.

 

[powder]

yours a dead-end given the FIL's flaring...

so can always go with the flow n seek ideas... in this way, this uncle can feedback his dad... if his dad knows that the resale prices are really super duper high, then he might tone down abit... and honestly, buying from HDB can save quite abit in this present mkt...

 

[havavi]

but didnt they give the green light initially?

 

[missyyee]

Vivi,

Yep! That is why I'm so confused! I don't know what the Father wants actually.

Initially we thought the only huddle will be my own Dad because I'm the only daughter. since I've been living with my parents at the West side of singapore all my life, my Dad rejected at first, but after weighing the pros and cons, he agreed and we were so happy. Not knowing BF's father actually... SIGH.

 

[havavi]

I dont know abt how decent can this uncle be, he might have been putting in a lot of pros in buying resale, so your FIL change his mind.

Well you can still go and see, just stated that you dont wish to pay any COV. ask him go and search.

at least you did try and see the resale option.

 

[alcifertoh]

vivi,

kinda tough as the uncle might have heard from the FIL that he's willing to pay on behalf the cov first. And likehood as I interprete is FIL trying to reccomend business for his friend.

Well just meet the Agent for formality sake and see how he turns out to be. Either on your side or just shake him off later. But I think most likely he's more profit driven than understanding.

 

[missyyee]

You might be right, Vivi. The uncle must have said alot to convince his Father that resale is worth considering for.

I guess I'll act blur and wait for his parents to tell me personally...

 

[giantemu]

alternatively, go for the contact and every flat he recommend, turn it down for all sorts of reasons...until such time, your BTO results come, if you have good Q number, then you have a flat.

 

[flyingstar]

alternatively you can say that your plans are to save up these 3 years while the flat is built for furniture/reno.

so not enough cash at this moment to fork out for a new flat + reno + furniture + wedding at the same time.

Maybe this can persuade him that you think BTO is a better option because it gives you a few years gap for you both to save up...

unless...he is willing to lend you both all the money...then really nothing to say liao

 

[missyyee]

flyingstar, that's what my BF told him but still, he was willing to fork out the money. Maybe I'll come up with a sum and go over to his place to talk to him personally.

My BF will be out of town for 3 weeks due to work. Most prob I will take this opportunity to have a good talk with the Father.

Another thing is, I'm so disappointed in the Mother... She did not mutter a single word during the entire commotion.

I was so upset that I cried to myself last night.

I really cannot stand his Father. He wasn't supportive of my BF furthering his studies (Bachelor in Marine Engineering), saying he should have started work after his Diploma and exclaimed that he had lost out to his peers. Now that my BF managed to secure a well paying with good prospects job, his Father shine with pride in front of the relatives.

As my family is not as well to do as his family (his Father is a supervisor/manager in a factory while my Dad is a taxi driver) so he is always making sarcastic remarks on my Dad. As I'm the only daughter, my Dad dotes on and protects me alot. Thus he never rush me for marriage despite BF and I being together for so long. On other hand, BF's father kept rushing us and even told me to ask my BF instead! I once told him that my Dad loves me very much and who knows he wishes me to stay by his side forever. And guess what the Father said? 'Yah. Not all families are as well to do as mine. Some need their children to support financially.' I was so angry that I stopped eating and kept quiet the entire session. BF knew and he grabbed my hand to pacify me and changed topics. His Mother and Brother on the other hand, kept quiet as well.

I will never stay with his family after marriage. I'm so angry that I wanna puke!

 

[soontobe]

Hmmm......u never reply, "well, some families are so well to do that their kids are bringing each other to court to fight for inheritance. But luckily u r not that rich that your kids will have to do that in the future. Aren't you one lucky father?"?

Hahahaha.........put jokes aside. I will probably tell him in a nice manner that "though my family is not rich (in monetary sense) but my family is closely knitted and "rich" in our manner. I'm still young, and my dad jus wishes to spend more time with me"

One thing that I cannot bear is to have someone criticizing my family. No matter who's the person is, he or she better apologise to me!

If you don't put a stop to this, he will think it's alright to say that about ur family..and continuously do that....

 

[alcifertoh]

I don't quite know about the part of you approaching the father though. Since of his character that you had mentioned here, it would be better that your htb handles the corresponding work.

Although it's initiative from your side, I am worried that if not handled well, it would be taken in a very negative light and the outcome might not be very desirable given a strong pride person he is.

 

[skylar]

I agree with hbh here...

best not for u to interfer at this moment.. guess the father might have raised his ultimate decision for him to move out within 3 mths..

wait for ur htb to come back then see how.. meanwhile what u can do now is to observe..

 

[missyyee]

Yes... I'm considering if I should talk to the Father. I've think about it and since I wasn't there when it happened, I take that I know nothing. Let Father and Son settle between themselves.

However, I do not want this issue to ruin the r/s between them. I feel that the more I hang on to this BTO application (which I don't even have a Q no. yet!), I'll worsen the trouble. Makes me feel that I should do something.

 

[alcifertoh]

Well like you had mentioned, leave the matter to the father and son. Meantime I think it would be good that u'll apply the stall for time strategy. The application result in september right? a month's time only.

Anyway I just feel that the verbal threat by the father to chase the son out of the house for not going with his wish on house selection to be empty. As a pride person that he is, he would not risk it for his reputation to be condemned by his relatives for such an unwise act.

For if he is really so, renting a place at the meantime is not that expensive now although I do not advocate damaging the ties. But some stuffs, we have to make the decision ourselves then being told what to do with our choices in life.

Walk this patch through with your htb. Offer him the support and discuss with him the various outcome that is possible for the both of you. Just hold your horse and don't interfere into their disputes. You need preserverance to and be strong for I would not surprise that the arrow might be targeted at you from someone who mentioned about the old enough and wanna move out kind of thing. Just be patient.

 

[missyyee]

Thank you HBH and all for the advices and listening 'ears'.

His Father has a huge ego but he does not mind being condemned by relatives. He made a din due to some miscommunication with the waiter during a cousin's wedding and the entire atmosphere turned awkward. Imagine our table was served 1st and not the bride's and groom's table and having the bride and her parents to pacify the Father personally. This is one reason why BF and I decided not to have a formal wedding dinner for fear we might be 'targetted' by relatives.

I do not understand why a man of over 50 can be so childish and unreasonable...

 

[dramarama]

Missy, if the father is as egoistical and unreasonable as you have described here, i don't see how you can avoid his wrath when you eventually buy your dream flat. Are both of you ready to face this? Its only a matter of time that he finds out that you guys are just 'entertaining' his wishes to buy resale.

The mother didnt stand up for your b/f because she is afraid of her husband. So, you really shouldn't be disappointed with her. Imagine, living with a man like that her whole life, is enough to ruin any shred of confidence that she had!

 

[green_tranquility]

"I do not understand why a man of over 50 can be so childish and unreasonable..."

It's not about the age. It's more about the internal emotions and mindset that they have.

They feel insecured about their importance, and worry that the others do not respect, involve them or value them in their lives. Their insecurity can cause them to kick big fusses, mistreat the others to gain more attention and reassurances from the others etc. These are like "anti-depressants pills" for them to ease their "mental imbalance".

Many old folks suffer from this insecurity that their children will neglect them after they get married. On a few occasions, I overheard elderly people's chats about this topic.

 

[alcifertoh]

Which could be what green had mentioned above too. Maybe the father is not very happy that the son is moving out?

Not discussing on the housing issue for the meantime can also provide him a period to get adjusted. Since he blurted out that "now grow up liao and wanna move out" in his fit of anger.

 

[missyyee]

Yes.. I'm going to act blur and see how things go. Hope that he'll cool down and accept the fact that we've applied and have no intention of borrowing money from him...

 

[powder]

only 1 advice...

unless your husband stands up for himself, dun ever involve yourself in the father/son dynamics... it is an affair that u will not have weightage in, so in some cases - better to keep quiet.

i've seen this many times, and honestly, it doesn't end like the tv where the father will think over and suddenly he realises his mistakes... the 2 pple he most definitely won't be listening to is the son, and u are a far far distance behind...

by the way, he is not of the finest character, so dun expect fine character display from him... when making decisions - dun create unnecessary expecatations on him.

take care...

 

[missyyee]

Thanks powder... I do not want unnecessary trouble from him as well.

You are right - it's between Father and son. Whatever it is, let them settle between themselves.

I can only hope my BF will hang on with me and not give in to his Father. The entire family has been under his Father's bidding willingly or unwillingly. I hope we can fight for our own future.

 

[powder]

tat inner strength has to come from your bfren, and he will have to figure his was to be amicable... no one should have to choose one over the other, if he cannot stand to this, u would not be happy in marriage either... it will strain the marriage at one point or another...

just stand with him and let him know u're there... the rest is his to overcome.

 

[bigfatbear]

At least you guys will have your own house either resales or BTO. Maybe his dad want you guys to stay near him.

For me, I can image myself staying in a 4rm flat with my bf, parents, 2xsisters & 2xbro-in-law.

 

[zzzz]

just curious.. if eventually the father still dun give way... shld the son do wat the father say or go ahead with the BTO... wat is the best way for this scenario?

either one side will not be happy...

 

[alcifertoh]

That would depends on the how the son handles it. We cannot decide for him as we would have done it differently. Ideal case is a win win resolution.

 

[zzzz]

yeah but i feel abit hard if the father is so stubborn.. dun think he will give way or compromise...

 

[alcifertoh]

At least try. Or figure if there is any other resolution.

 

[bigfatbear]

Missyyee.. if i'm you, I will get the BTO.
His father is those unreasonable type even his son also cannot tahan. Yes you have to respect but to a certain extend. At least your bf is standing at your side not his father so you must be glad.

 

[green_tranquility]

If the son is very firm on his decision and goes ahead to sign the house agreement, the father also bobian and has to accept his son's decision in the end. I doubt he will bear to disown and lose his precious son forever. At most, he will just say nasty, angry words at them.

Now we have to see how the son handles the situation....

 

[missyyee]

Happy Bear, Thanks for the advice. You are such a poor thing... Gotta stay with 7 family members. But are they nice people? I stayed with another 10 family members when I was younger in a 3 room flat and everyone was very close and happy.

I finally found a chance to speak to my BF face to face last night. After understanding the entire situation, I realised my BF is at fault too.

1.) His Father did try to speak to him nicely at first but my BF felt that since we've applied, why talk about getting a resale flat now? Thus, his Father felt unappreciated, thus triggered the entire hooha.

2.) My BF was not sensitive enough. Instead of explaining why we want to get the BTO, he said we will want to buy a house that we like. I think this sentence is abit off. Because his Father might think that since we're working now, we can afford the things that we LIKE, thus can ignore his advices.

3.) His Father was very rude and crude. After the arguement, he actually swore vulgarities in front of my BF. My BF felt insulted and see no need for these. He told me that he is his son, not workers nor slaves.

4.) After so many days, my BF will call home and greet his Father (as usual) but his Father ignored him.

5.) His Father has been surfing the net for resale flats! *faint*

6.) His Mother does not know that the Father wants him to move out by 3 months. Initially, my BF thought he was simply threatening him. But come to think of it, why give a grace period of 3 months instead of moving out immediately. His Father might be serious.

Things take 2 hands to clap and both are at wrong.

 

[alcifertoh]

Head on clash. Now likely he just wanna prove his point to be right and extert his "authority" across. If your bf is willing to eat the humble pie which still has some possibilities for a positive outcome, let him speak to his father and clarify any misunderstands previously and see how it goes.

 

[findingnemo]

When we are small children, our parents "hong" us. Now that they are old, we must "hong" them back. Try it and it may soften the old man a bit.

 

[clipperjunk]

so much drama...just get a rental for now and move out to settle the hooha.....

 

[alcifertoh]

And that would prove to be a challenging move.

 

[clipperjunk]

but that would also take the challenge out...hopefully from the dad...

 

[missyyee]

Nemo, that's what I told my BF - use the soft approach. Try to 'teh' abit. But then, can't really expect a 26yo guy to teh in front of his fierce Dad.

clipperjunk, that will definitely worsen the situation.

 

[alcifertoh]

Not teh lah... show him the respect make him feel good can liao. Let him know that his views were seriously considered and you'll weighted the pros can cons with valid reasons and went through a struggle before u'll came to your decisions. And you'll are very grateful for his kind offer but hope to start being independant and blah blah blah afterall u'll cannot depend on him for the rest of your lives blah blah blah and hope to in turn take care of him blah blah blah.

I just find it that in asian traditional culture guys like to hold on to this pride thing and sometimes even when they are concern or what, they try to spreak in a sud sud manner as if they don't care and it's such that conveyed the misunderstanding.

Like you mentioned that during the dinner, the manner the words traded caused the clash. Both parties had good intentions but somehow it ended up misunderstanding where each another were coming from. I believe there's the chance that the father will feel more comforted that his son has grown up and is independant liao than thinking he's now old enough to go against him if the thoughts were conveyed properly.

 

[missyyee]

Hei Bee Hiam, yah... I get what u mean.

I told BF to try speak to his Dad asap (ie. try to make small talks or try to greet or pour him tea instead of letting his mum do it)... he told me he'll try. Sigh. Really hope the Father will understand in time to come...

 

[bigfatbear]

Miss YYee, I think both father & son have the same character so no matter how they talk thing might get worst, coz usually most children like to shout at their own parent. Maybe you can take the initative and talk to them during a dinner. I think your father-in-law will be more polite and rational when talking to a women. So you be the bridge.

 

[alcifertoh]

"but that would also take the challenge out...hopefully from the dad..."

I don't see how constructive it is anyway with everyone walking out of it happy. Via intimidating you suggest when the father is already headstrong in this case? If you do not value the relationship by all means why not?

 

[flyingstar]

wah, really both parties are at some fault. But as the son, your bf must apologize to his dad first before talking about this any further...

actually i think this issue won't be so big if not for the fact that your bf a bit too harsh on his dad... i think maybe you and your bf can sit down with his dad and explain especially regarding your plans, finances...let him realise that his son and future DIL are adults who know how to plan and think, and are not rushing into marriage thinking that their parents will settle everything.

don't forget to thank him for his efforts too. at least he knows you recognise what he has done.

 

[cheng_tngz]

I agree with flyingstar, its doesnt really matter who's right and who's wrong, but as asians we have to 'obey' our elders..

 

[missyyee]

Personally, I feel that my BF wasn't harsh on his father. Just that instead of expressing his own thoughts, he could have simply listened quietly to his Father and perhaps just let him know that we will consider after getting our Q number. I felt that his Father was very rude to swore vulgarities at my BF over such matters when he was supportive of us settling down after being together for so long.

I intend to buy some mooncakes over and try to talk to his Father. Provided his Father wants to talk to me at the 1st place.

It's been more than a week and his Father refused to talk to him (via the phone when BF called from overseas). It's kinda hurting but sigh, we do have to respect their suggestions but as an adult, we did made plans and we know what lies ahead and are ready to face them together.

After this dispute, my BF's firm stand for the BTO has shaken. I was so disappointed. But BF will be home only 3 weeks later so I'm hoping we can have a good talk then.

For now, I'll try to muster up some courage to go over to his place (as per normal) and make some small talks with the Father, hoping that it will prompt him into further and deeper conversations.

 

[powder]

does the father happen to know that resale can cost as much as half a million and getting direct from HDB represents a factual savings of 100-150k excluding the accrued interests?

anyway dun take him on but leave little facts lying around...

 

[missyyee]

Powder, this I'm not sure as I haven't got the chance to speak to him. Furthermore, I will not start on this particular topic unless he initiated because I don't want to look and sound too intimidating.

However, I believe he do realised it by now because according to my BF, he started looking for resale flats online and I guess his agent friend should have advised him on it.