Parents' r/s is very bad... stressed

two_piece

Member
My parents' relationship has been really bad since many years ago, back to the time when I'm still schooling. My dad is those really stubborn type, when he was young, he has already been managing the whole restaurant and the whole group of ppl. He thinks very highly of himself and shows black face whenever ppl are not doing what he expected. All his subordinates are very scared of him, and in fact, it includes my mum n me. My mum is those submissive type, and I know she has always put me and my dad in her top priority. By the way, I’m the only child, but I’m not very close to my parents.

Abt 10 years ago, he quitted his job and opened his own stall at hawker centre, my mum quitted her job to help him out too. Tat was the time when their relationship turned really bad. My dad stopped talking to my mum and shows black face all the time. During that time I was in JC, I could sense something wrong, but I didn’t do anything, I know I should have done something during that time but I dunno why I just ignored the problem… really regretted of not doing anything to help…. The hawker stall business was not good, so we stopped after one year and my dad went overseas (back to our hometown) to work for some time. He did setup another stall at hometown, 2 separate times with different ppl, but both didn’t turn out well, and somehow I think he and his partners couldn’t get along that well, had very different opinions, so he quitted. And he thinks that the failures were due to the partners’ but not his, and probably bad luck. And unfortunately during that time he had cancer and needed an operation, my mum flew back to take care of him, and fortunately, my dad’s cancer got cured after the operation. After some time, both of them came back to Singapore. Since then, my mum found a job as cashier but my dad has nvr worked (probably due to his health and age, he couldn’t find the same kind of high pay/level job as before, and he himself is unwilling to accept low pay jobs). I have tried to encourage him to go for some activities or try out some hobbies, but somehow he refused to do so, and stayed at home and played computer games everyday. Probably becos of that, his temper got worse and worse. And he gets angry very easily, shows my mum black face all day, and sometimes to me also. And as years go by, I got married, and my dad’s temper continued to get worse. Even my mum cannot stand him anymore, becos he shows black face for every single thing that my mum does, that he thinks is wrong.

I did try to talk to my dad and finally realized, because during tat time when my parents set up hawker stall, my dad thinks that my mum has took all the ‘profit’s. He claims that, he’s the one who paid for all the raw materials n rent, etc, and my mum will keep all the earnings. And another main thing was that, back to almost 20 years ago, when we migrate to Singapore, my parents sold off their flat in my hometown, my dad claims that my mum has kept all the money in her pocket. To me, yes, my mum is very thrifty, and thinks that money is very impt, so she spends very little, and indeed she has some savings of her own (all women do that I think); whereas my dad spends a great lot, becos he was indeed very well paid during the time he was working. However, I seriously dun think my mum will do until the extent of keeping all the money to herself. Anyway, well, all the problems started with this money issue. And the problem is that, my dad refuses to listen to any explanations. He refuses to listen to anybody, as long as he think that way, he must be right. Really stubborn. All his brothers, sisters, me, has tried our best to talk to him but he just refuses to listen… and now, every single thing that my mum does, will irritate him. And when he’s not happy, he shows black face, and he purposely does something to irritate ppl back, like throwing his chopsticks on table. There was once, my mum needs to OT and forgot to inform him, he was very furious, and he complained to me, even scolded vulgar when he complained to me.

My mum knows abt all these and she finds it really hard to take it. I know it’s very hard on her too. Actually both of them has tot of divorcing each other long long long ago (dad told me, and mum told me). However, both decided not to open mouth, cos dad is very traditional and I think he want his face, for mum, she kept the marriage becos I was young, and now she is scared to open mouth, dunno wat’s the consequences, etc Now everyday they’re living under the same roof, yet, leading separate lives, but yet, cant be totally separate lives, as my dad still cooks for mum, and mum needs to report to him if she comes back late, etc. I know both are very unhappy and mum feels suffocated… as their daughter, I really dunno what I can do… tell them to divorce? Like very unfillial… let them suffer like this? Is very sad to see tat also…

I’m very sorry for the long winded story… I have no siblings to share and discuss wat to do… is there any kind soul can let me know wat I can do?
 


cuclainne

New Member
you have to tell yourself that perhaps divorce is a better choice than for them to stay together and make everyone miserable.

i was in a similar situation with you. me and my siblings encouraged our mother to get a divorce from our father, as he can get quite unreasonable and we could see how much our mother suffered for many years, just to keep the family unit together - for the children's sake and also to save face.

eventually as the kids got older, my mother finally decided enough was enough .. their marriage ended just as mine was beginning about 5 years ago.

but being divorced doesn't mean that it's the end. for all you know, they might end up being better friends than partners. my husband's parents are separated but they remain good friends until now.
 

xylon

New Member
Anyway for your mom to stop working? This will reduce some tension. If possible, get them to spend some good quality times together, like a family outing.

As their daughter, you are probably the only hope of them staying together.

Why did they get married? What did they see in each other? It is important to remind them what those reasons are. Perhaps you can ask them about the good old courtship days? to remind them of their love of each other.

Also, you can read up on marriage counselling (books, internet, find a counsellor) and be their marriage counsellor.

All the best.
 

two_piece

Member
cuclaine : ya but sometimes i imagine, if they divorce, most likely my mum will move in to stay with me, and my dad will be living all alone by himself. N in this case he'll get even more stubborn n extreme in his thinking. N somemore, it's like i'm the one who's causing my dad to be alone. Although i will sure still visit him, but it's just different... haiz... n sometimes, i really cannot imagine how will he react if i ask them to divorce...

guy: i think it's really up to a stage that there's no point counselling them or trying to bring them back together... it'll be even worse if ask my mum to stop working and face him at home whole day... my dad will only grow more n more irritated by my mum, and my mum will also be upset by his attitude. Even if counselling works for them now, very soon it'll be back to the tension again, cos i know my dad will always think and remember for life, that my mum has took away his money (although it's not a true fact).

haiz... vexed... i also think divorce is a better way for them... but all along my mum n i were in a submissive position in the family, it's really hard to find to courage to tell my dad such thing...
 

opalstar

New Member
Hi Two piece,

I really understand what you might be going through.My family situation had several elements of similarity with yours.

My dad owned his own business and my mom works under him in managing the finance. When times were extremely bad in 1997 (we nearly have to lose the condo then). Fights were the norm in my house, I lived on 10 stories and I could hear them when I came home from school

Black face, quarrels, physical fights overwhelmed my life.. I used to wake up with a start in the middle of night cos i thought my parents were at it again and i remember i will keep crying when i woke up.

My dad likes to blame my mom for everything that went wrong in office. At worst, he will say she is a jinx and hit her..well.. she hit back.. so at least even up the odds abit.. The clerk forget to vouch the invoice, her fault, the sales man write the wrong credit note also her fault...

My mom used to say that too, the only reason she stayed with my dad is due to her three kids (us)..but trust me that make me even more miserable..

The silver lining in the cloud came more than 10 years later.. My dad started to mellow out, my mom tries to be more sensitive to his moods and stress.. Fights became more infrequent and they started talking again...Gradually, they started hanging out and my dad will accompany my mom to wet market n stuff..

Sometimes,when I see them together especially at such an old age, I was glad I did not pushed my mom for divorce (though it was certainly in my heart and mind)... Cos down the road, she will still have someone to love her and be with her when she retired..Some times, they will hold hands together shopping even though they will be nagged at each other again..*aww so sweet*

She can truly 执å­ä¹‹æ‰‹ï¼Œä¸Žå­å•è€ 。。 But this doesn't happen overnight either..

My person opinion unless it is really drastic , die die must divorce, maybe it is better to co-exist and after a period of time, they can be together and harmony will reign in family..
 

opalstar

New Member
To add on , my dad is like yours too.. VERY dictator..
顺我者昌,逆我者亡。。

Everything not happy, black face.. is blacker than the chimp in Zoo.. then refuse to say anything is wrong then suddenly erupt type de..

The older generation "Towkays" all have the high pride... expect to be obey. Carries a big stick with them..

Only he is right, everyone is wrong.. haha.. that is in the past la. now he is slightly more reasonable.. emphasize on slightly
 

infojunkie

Active Member
i dun think it is necessary to hv a divorce, just live separate lives in separate homes can liao.

and if they r happy living apart from each other, then dun hv to meet for the rest of their lives...

当æŸäº›äº‹å·²æˆå®šå±€ï¼Œæ”¹ä¸æ”¹å˜å·²ä¸é‡è¦ã€‚。。

<font color="ff0000">åªæ€•</font>,他们是一个愿打,一个愿挨

但其实,习惯了也ä¸ä¼šå†è§‰å¾—å¯æ€•ã€‚。。
 

cuclainne

New Member
two piece, my mom wanted to go for counselling but my father didn't .. he threatened my mom that if divorce is what she wants, then he will give it to her. it's been 5 years and even until now, he's still bitter about the divorce because in a way, he didn't just lose my mom but he lost the entire family.

despite the divorce, he is still my father but unfortunately my relationship with my dad is estranged mainly because i don't live under the same roof as my parents anymore and also because i try to avoid meeting him because as soon as he sees my face, he will start asking for money .. previously he would ask me for $200 every other week. i thought it was my way of being fair to both parents - since i give my mother an allowance - but he started taking me and the husband as his personal ATM so i just stopped.

he blames my mother for inciting us kids to hating him but he doesn't understand that it's not because of her but because of his actions. despite the womanising, drinking, borrowing money, etc - he still thinks it's his right as the head of the family to do what he wants and everyone just accepts as is. Unfortunately we are no longer little children to listen to his commands.

i feel sad that i don't have a relationship with my father anymore but i feel that it's the only choice until he realises what he's done - pushing us away.
 

opalstar

New Member
Two Piece , other than black face, is there anything he did?

Womanising? gambling? Alcholism? Abusive?

cos it seems like he just felt like he is no longer a "man" in the house. Once, he was his own boss who command his ship, now, he is cooking for your mom who is bringing in the bacon..

The reversal of roles might be hard for him to take in too..thus the frequent black face.
 

pantieileen

New Member
Hi Two-Piece &amp; Opal,

My parents are like your parents. My dad is also a dictator since he was from the army. Formerly a Major then changed to civilian when we were growing up to spend more time in Singapore than overseas postings. Growing up, my brother and i, even my cousins were afraid of my dad. He had a blackface like your dads. In fact, his nickname is Blackface or Black Panther and worse of all, he acknowledged it when people call him that. Well, not really a joke. Even my grandparents (his own parents) and my maternal grandparents were afraid of him. During dinners, we were not allowed to talk so we grew up not knowing how to properly communicate.

My mom naturally is afraid of him too...until these few years, after my brother and i are now "adults". She begins to learn to argue back with him and i think this isn't doing everyone any good. Before that, whenever my dad talks, he tends to shout like what he used to do in army and my mom would be submissive and keep quiet, never answer back. These years, she argues back and worse claims that he shouts. Then again he has be shouting all his life and i tell her it's just his way of talking but she claims he's screaming at her.

Anyway. Now that my dad is retired, he stays home daily while my mom pretends to be working in her own company even though there is no business anymore. I asked my mom why doesn't she wound up her biz and spend time with my dad but she said what for. I guess the reason would be that she doesn't want to spend time with him at home and choose to escape during the day.

My dad doesn't womanise, smoke, drink, gamble etc. The only vice i guess my mom thinks he has would be to travel, spending money unwisely as she puts it. I know my dad likes to see the world so i thought as a sign of goodwill, i give them 2 round trip biz class tickets to tokyo for a vacation and guess what. I was accused of spending unnecessary money by my mother. My dad was happy but asked to change to tickets to Taipei instead. She said that i didn't get her consent to suggest a trip for them but she didn't say no when i asked the both of them together. Behind his back, she tells me she's being dragged to vacation with him. So i got pissed off and told her to get a divorce if she's so unhappy and got kept quiet.

Sometimes i wonder, what kind of message is she trying to give me since i'm preparing to get married. I wrote her a formal email asking her what is she trying to teach me by complaining about my dad daily (actually since young). She has a husband that provides for the family, brings us to vacations since we were in primary school, non-smoker, non-drinker, non-womaniser etc.

So she tells me that she's unhapppy coz she thinks my dad is stupid to retire early on the dot at 55yr old. Also, all the other nitty gritty details like he doesn't know how to store tupperware. he stacks tupperware until the ceiling in the kitchen! But then again, he was a soldier not a cook. And yes, alot of unhappiness stem from money too. My parents earn the same amount since i was growing up until my dad retired and my mom claims she's feeding the family now, the classic role reversal.

Anyway to cut the story short. I grew up not knowing how to talk to my dad, forever fearful of my dad until when i was in jc i realised the best way to talk to him is to pretend i'm an adult and it worked. Hence our family communication is all via emails, officially in black and white.

I don't feel sorry that i tell my mom to get a divorce if she's unhappy. I'll gladly take my dad if he has to live alone.
 

two_piece

Member
The thing abt my dad, aside from the black face n stubborness, overall he's actually a gd man... he likes to drink beer everyday n smoke, but he wont drink until he's drunk. he gambles only with frens/relatives when he's back to hometown (or rather he has no frens here anymore), he's not tat type who'll go casino n gamble until broke tat kind. he likes to travel too, so sometimes he travels alone to different places. sometimes i feel bad for not accompanying him for trips, but then, his type of travelling really different fr our type, we'll find his type boring, n he wont like our type of travelling too....

My dad shows black face n doesnt talk to my mum unless really really neccessary, it's like both of them only talk to each other only when necessary. But sometimes when he's angry, he'll ignore my mum even if she talks to him. However, he nvr hits her, he doesnt even scold or quarrel with her. He only complains to other ppl abt her, bad mouth her... haiz... sometimes i just wish tat he's those bad guys, womaniser or gambler or watever... if he's tat kind, i can easily go ahead and ask my mum to go for divorce already...
 

opalstar

New Member
I cannot tell you what you MUST DO.. but just want to share my experience..that sometimes waiting could be a good thing.. Especially, seems like with your parents, it is a lack of communication more than anything.

Although I die die wanted my mom to divorce back then.. in retrospect, I am glad it didn't. Cos, this is only a cold war.. After the cold thawed out, the flowers will bloom again..but need time

Unless you can be absolutely certain that they are MUCH better without each other.. otherwise think again..

Side track abit.. what junkie said reminds me of a phrase my grandma told me when my grandpa pass away.. (they are an equally hot tempered couple.. imagine 80 years old hor.. still argue like kids...throw chair somemore)
(-_-!)

My grandma say "åµåµé—¹é—¹å‡ å年。。åªæœ‰åœ¨ä»–èµ°æ—¶æ‰è§‰å¾—一切都太é™,好想在å¬åˆ°ä»–多骂我几å¥". So I agree, with some, arguing is a way of co-existing..
 

two_piece

Member
ya opal... i think it's partly like wat u said "cos it seems like he just felt like he is no longer a "man" in the house. Once, he was his own boss who command his ship, now, he is cooking for your mom who is bringing in the bacon.."

ya i think it's very hard to find a solution... for divorce, nobody got the courage to mention it. But to stay together, both will be miserable... dad will find mum irritating, mum will always have to be cautious of wat she does, cos we both dunno wat single little thing can trigger his black face... alot of times, we dun even know what we did wrongly to make him unhappy... sometimes, he complains to me, then i know, but most of the times, he doesnt... he just keeps quiet, and let it accumulate, and he'll just keep thinking abt it himself, + his own imagination, i think the whole incident (or mistake he might think), will become exagerated, and he'll get angrier.... haiz... it's stressful for my mum n myself...
 

ajumma

New Member
You could broach the topic of divorce again. You might be surprised, but some couples quarrel a lot but they cannot bear to get divorced.

If your mother did not keep the money, where did the money that your dad was talking about go to?
 

two_piece

Member
i dunno whether they cannot bear to divorce or just dun wan to go thru all the trouble or just cannot imagine the consequences....

actually during that time, i think tat flat at hometown, there wasnt much profit, most of the $ shld be used to pay the balance of the outstanding housing loan ba. Then when we come to Singapore, we have to pay for the downpayment of the flat here leh... most likely the sum have been used up already... my mum's memory is fading, and my dad's memory isnt that good too... but he always think tat he remember very clearly and thinks tat his imagination are part of his memory...
sad.gif
 

infojunkie

Active Member
"my mum's memory is fading, and my dad's memory isnt that good too... but he always think tat he remember very clearly and thinks tat his imagination are part of his memory... "

well, einstein said “Memory is deceptive because it is colored by today's events.â€
happy.gif


anyway, the best thing to do now is to minimize the friction between them and maximize whatever that's left of the relationship.

u know, å„自为政.
 

ajumma

New Member
two_piece,

Since your dad's grudge with your mum began with the money, have you tried looking for receipts and records of earnings to show him that nobody took his money?

Surely they have financial records of the sale in their hometown?

How old are your parents now? After a certain age, it would not be advisable to go through a divorce, because it might appear to others that you and your mum are abandoning your dad when he needs you the most.

That is, provided your dad has not been physically violent with your mum.

It's ok for them to lead separate lives. Ask around your friends. There are very few old couples who do not quarrel or shout at each other now and then. Many of them do not sleep in the same bed. They stopped being loving long ago.

The older they get, the more cranky. Yet they may still wish to stay together.

You don't always have to interfere in their quarrels. If your dad or mum have not many friends, they might even be worse off after divorce. At least now they have each other. You have your own family, you can't always be around for them.
 

opalstar

New Member
I don't think she will need to find receipts and records.. If the dad is decided in his mind that the mom did it, no evidence will prove otherwise..later will just add to the family drama

Like the old saying " If you trust somebody, no evidence is needed, if you distrust someone, no evidence will convince you."

"i dunno whether they cannot bear to divorce or just dun wan to go thru all the trouble or just cannot imagine the consequences.... "

Opal : Erm , if they cannot decide.. why are you stressed over it? What happen between a couple, no third party can decide for them..even their child...

Just do your best to smooth things over by being cordial to both parties.. stay neutral..When they blackface each other, ignore it. Once they blackface finish .. life will just move on.

Try to talk to your dad abit more. It is likely that he might be feeling lonely given that he stay at home and only cook .. Praise him for the work he had done.

When a dictator grow old, one day he will look around and realise that everyone had left him.. Only then, he will slowly climb down from his high and mighty position to be a common man.
 

two_piece

Member
ya... tat's wat i'm doing rite now... letting things go on this way... dragging... just tat i know my mum is kinda suffering, having to bear with dad's blackface and sometimes unreasonable and childish behaviour... and dad also finds mum 'ä¸é¡ºçœ¼', and will get angry easily, then sometimes he'll complain to me... and sometimes when he gets very angry, he'll use very éš¾å¬çš„字眼 to scold mum in front of me... when i tell my dad he shld tell mum wat he thinks, he refuse to and say wat's the pt of telling her... and things just keep repeating and repeating...

it's really quite miserable, for all 3 of us... they're still in their mid/late 50s... my hubby told me tat my dad might be having menopause, wonder will there be chances that things will get better some years later...
 

infojunkie

Active Member
"he refuse to and say wat's the pt of telling her... and things just keep repeating and repeating..."

well, the only way to break the vicious cycle is to Walk Away.

and that is -

看ä¸é¡ºçœ¼ï¼Œå°±ä¸è¦çœ‹ç½—。。。

被嫌弃者必须è¦ä¸è‡ªå¼ƒæ‰èƒ½å¯»å›žå°Šä¸¥ä¸Žå¿«ä¹

想è¦ä¸è‡ªå¼ƒå°±ä¸èƒ½åç€æŒ¨æ‰“

别å†è¢«æ‰“

还手则ä¸å¿…。。。

那是人最基本的生存能力ï¼

å©šä¸ç”¨ç¦»ï¼Œå°±ç›´æŽ¥æ¶ˆå¤±åœ¨ä»–眼å‰å§

眼ä¸è§ä¸ºå‡€ã€‚
 

opalstar

New Member
师祖呀。。
å¿ä¸€æ—¶ï¼Œé£Žå¹³æµªé™ã€‚
退一步,海阔天空。

大事化å°ï¼Œå°äº‹åŒ–无。。

Probably what is not helping the matter, is that you seems to have the intention of hoping of a divorce to end e suffering.. Your mom is not actively looking for a divorce. you are..If that's the case, you just need a recommendation for a good divorce lawyer..

If you are looking for advice to change your dad attitudue, you might wished to consider changing your mindset before helping..Stop seeing ur dad as a "villan" and start trying to understand him..and find ways to soften the stands.
 

two_piece

Member
å©šä¸ç”¨ç¦»ï¼Œå°±ç›´æŽ¥æ¶ˆå¤±åœ¨ä»–眼å‰å§... is the same as divorcing him, the main pt is still, like we're abandoning my dad...

My mum has been thinking of divorce back since i was in my sch days... stayed together becos of me... and aft so many years, she has still been thinking of it... esp when my dad shows her blackface, she'll think abt it again... recently she asked me again, wat's my view if both of them divorce. I told her, i'll give my support and my place has always a room for her... but just as my words were out... i feel guilty towards my dad. I know my mum will only keep thinking n thinking of divorce but she'll nvr execute it due to all the reasons mentioned in my previous thread, tat's why i'm always in a dilemma. whether I shld encourage her to do so, or shld just let it be this way...

Of cos, my wish is that both of them can live happily together. I wish to have more time to talk to him, but everytime we start on the topic abt my mum, he gets very agitated and stubborn, and still insist my mum is wrong n money minded, etc etc etc...
 

infojunkie

Active Member
the main objective here is to achieve happiness in the face of adversity... 哪怕是微å°çš„幸ç¦
happy.gif


è¦å¸®åŠ©å®ˆæ—§æ€•äº‹çš„令堂脱困,隔离二人以å‡å°‘ä¸å¿…è¦çš„摩擦是个ä¸é”™çš„折中办法。离婚与å¦å…ˆæç€å†è¯´ï¼Œæœ€é‡è¦çš„是脱离苦海å…é­æ²¡é¡¶ã€‚而你则无须弃令尊于ä¸é¡¾ã€‚é¢å¯¹æ€¨è¨€åªè¦ç”¨å¹³å¸¸å¿ƒå¯¹å¾…,一笑置之就得了。

至于令尊,能å¦è§‰æ‚Ÿå°±å¾—看他的造化了。。。
 

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