**WJ's palm meets her forehead in exasperation with a loud "piak"**
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE
Need to divorce my wife to save my health !, Advice needed
- Thread starter mystuff
- Start date
John,
'So are you saying u caused him to go and find someone before you guys divorced'
I DONT WISH to blame other party for the failed marriage. becos I know very clearly that I am responsible for his behavior.
STOP repeating what your wife did wrongly. Till now you still dont get it? Focus on Yourself Not your wife. becos YOU cant change her but Yourself. Albee's post about how her hubby reacted to her disrespectful behavior. Do read her post again.
Ask yourself Y these people keep talking about U instead of saying your wife is wrong. Becos???
I learnt my mistake I changed I take care of my own behavior. FOCUS on myself instead of putting the blame of the others.
Till today I have moved on.... GUESS what my ex is still blaming me for the cause of him falling in LOVE with another gal and this gal is even stronger than me he is more restricted to what he can do. (cant look at other beauty gal on the road, cant go out with friends got to be home after work, the gal even complain about the amount of money he earned! etc etc....
You know why becos he never learnt....but to only know how to blame the others....HE never learnt to stand up as a man to tell his gal what is wrong. your wife want to watch korean movie??? bring her out to some places where only both of you and she can only do is listen to you. Can think of it what u can do???
'So are you saying u caused him to go and find someone before you guys divorced'
I DONT WISH to blame other party for the failed marriage. becos I know very clearly that I am responsible for his behavior.
STOP repeating what your wife did wrongly. Till now you still dont get it? Focus on Yourself Not your wife. becos YOU cant change her but Yourself. Albee's post about how her hubby reacted to her disrespectful behavior. Do read her post again.
Ask yourself Y these people keep talking about U instead of saying your wife is wrong. Becos???
I learnt my mistake I changed I take care of my own behavior. FOCUS on myself instead of putting the blame of the others.
Till today I have moved on.... GUESS what my ex is still blaming me for the cause of him falling in LOVE with another gal and this gal is even stronger than me he is more restricted to what he can do. (cant look at other beauty gal on the road, cant go out with friends got to be home after work, the gal even complain about the amount of money he earned! etc etc....
You know why becos he never learnt....but to only know how to blame the others....HE never learnt to stand up as a man to tell his gal what is wrong. your wife want to watch korean movie??? bring her out to some places where only both of you and she can only do is listen to you. Can think of it what u can do???
Hi dramarama,
not many would have the courage to own up the "wrongdoings" like me okie...
in case John's mistaken, it is not that i am not "repentent" abt my "unreasonable behaviour"...
as written, i had acknowledged my wrong nature, but the husband's whiny nature had not helped in our cause for proper communication, anyway.
why the hell would i care abt his "spa treatment" by the river and his farm work when he always had the slighest of hint that i was wholly faulted for the conflicts... didn't he realise that he had helped to tip the iceberg along the way? well, of course he don't.
the talk couldn't talk, so the walk couldn't walk...
but i still can fly to LA.
not many would have the courage to own up the "wrongdoings" like me okie...
in case John's mistaken, it is not that i am not "repentent" abt my "unreasonable behaviour"...
as written, i had acknowledged my wrong nature, but the husband's whiny nature had not helped in our cause for proper communication, anyway.
why the hell would i care abt his "spa treatment" by the river and his farm work when he always had the slighest of hint that i was wholly faulted for the conflicts... didn't he realise that he had helped to tip the iceberg along the way? well, of course he don't.
the talk couldn't talk, so the walk couldn't walk...
but i still can fly to LA.
John,
Seek help from them.
TOUCH Counselling & Social Support
http://www.tcs.org.sg/service/st_family/03.php?item=3
Seek help from them.
TOUCH Counselling & Social Support
http://www.tcs.org.sg/service/st_family/03.php?item=3
We already went counselling twice, like I said, " its 2 thumbs up " for both sides and then " fight on" like referee in boxing match.
Be Romantic ? you name it, I've done it
Why don't I just divorce her ? because I think she may have a chance to change if she really hears from someone who feels sorry for what she has done to cause a divorce. She might realise what she is doing that might cost our children's future.
Everybody keeps saying focus on myself , look at myself first but nothing concrete. So what mistake did I make?
Be Romantic ? you name it, I've done it
Why don't I just divorce her ? because I think she may have a chance to change if she really hears from someone who feels sorry for what she has done to cause a divorce. She might realise what she is doing that might cost our children's future.
Everybody keeps saying focus on myself , look at myself first but nothing concrete. So what mistake did I make?
green_tranquility
New Member
Vios,
"spa treatment by the river and his farm work "
LOL ~ Your statement makes me laugh out loud at my office table. Which river? Geylang River? That's why got many gals appraching him?
Being the best house/domestic man doesn't necessarily mean he has satisfied his wife's emotional needs. He needs to start looking at what his wife is looking for in a hubby?
"spa treatment by the river and his farm work "
LOL ~ Your statement makes me laugh out loud at my office table. Which river? Geylang River? That's why got many gals appraching him?
Being the best house/domestic man doesn't necessarily mean he has satisfied his wife's emotional needs. He needs to start looking at what his wife is looking for in a hubby?
alcifertoh
New Member
Your mistake lies in thinking that you are a god sent through your roles. The best person that would be able to answer you would be your wife. Focus on yourself in what's good for the family and how to improve the situation. Not magnifying on what you had been doing.
Otherwise if all fails and wife really have a problem about you, then the next step is clear. The others had also advise on the possible steps to take if you read through everything again.
You can give a person a fish. The person might still eat it even if he doesn't like fish. Then, you feel that the person should be satisfied and happy about the fish but feel affected when the person said the fish is smelly and not fresh. From all the exchanges, you seem not interested in other's views but your views only.
Otherwise if all fails and wife really have a problem about you, then the next step is clear. The others had also advise on the possible steps to take if you read through everything again.
You can give a person a fish. The person might still eat it even if he doesn't like fish. Then, you feel that the person should be satisfied and happy about the fish but feel affected when the person said the fish is smelly and not fresh. From all the exchanges, you seem not interested in other's views but your views only.
John,
I read this thread till I buay tahan. You are not addressing the real crux of the problem in your relationship.
Why do you even want her to feel sorry for what she has done to cause a divorce?? If I were to be in her position, I would wonder why the hell my husband would send a stranger to talk to me rather than himself. And in fact, I may even be more angered by the fact that my husband is so revengeful, leaving him would have been a relief lor. She can jolly well choose to say sorry and bye.
You keep harping on the fact that she tugs your child's hair, she fails miserably as a wife and mother, blah blah blah. Did you try to access before if her behaviour stems from post natal depression?
If you really value this relationship, then look forward. Find a way to salvage. No point harping at all her bad points.
Btw hor, I made huge mistakes in life before.
I read this thread till I buay tahan. You are not addressing the real crux of the problem in your relationship.
Why do you even want her to feel sorry for what she has done to cause a divorce?? If I were to be in her position, I would wonder why the hell my husband would send a stranger to talk to me rather than himself. And in fact, I may even be more angered by the fact that my husband is so revengeful, leaving him would have been a relief lor. She can jolly well choose to say sorry and bye.
You keep harping on the fact that she tugs your child's hair, she fails miserably as a wife and mother, blah blah blah. Did you try to access before if her behaviour stems from post natal depression?
If you really value this relationship, then look forward. Find a way to salvage. No point harping at all her bad points.
Btw hor, I made huge mistakes in life before.
alcifertoh
New Member
His take on post natal depression as posted earlier reflects his attitude towards the whole deal. Until he realised that, it's just a self-importance thread.
John, seeking professional help is not limited to counselling. There is a possibility that your wife is suffering from postnatal depression as suggested here. You need to get to the root of her problem. Please do not lightly brush this possibility aside.
Get help please.
You said you had counselling twice, what weree the diagnosis?
Get help please.
You said you had counselling twice, what weree the diagnosis?
I suffered from depression before and at that time, I didnt even know it was depression. All i experienced then was anger, frustration for no reason, i felt i was in a hole that i can't get out of. something my htb did, just a little thing or some words he said that i disagreed with, i blew up at him. once i even screamed at him in chinatown before CNY!!! now i am very embarrassed when i think abt but at that time i wasn't. but i always felt remorseful after that, i hated myself for feeling for all these & behaving like that. the next minute, i became monster again.
my htb started consulting our family doctor & he suggested that i could be suffering from depression. he discussed it with me calmly, explained the symptoms & i agreed with him. i agreed to seek treatment & now i am better.
i am very grateful that he stood by me, took my abuse calmly without retaliating. everyday, i count my blessings that i will be marrying this man soon.
my htb started consulting our family doctor & he suggested that i could be suffering from depression. he discussed it with me calmly, explained the symptoms & i agreed with him. i agreed to seek treatment & now i am better.
i am very grateful that he stood by me, took my abuse calmly without retaliating. everyday, i count my blessings that i will be marrying this man soon.
findingnemo
New Member
John, how many times did you wife tug your child's hair? Was it only once? How many times did she say "Serves you right"? Was it only once? Are you seeking revenge by divorcing her? Forgive her lah, and you will find peace.
John, i did not read every single posts here because it's so repetitive. I only read some of what other people posted, and every post of what you had posted here. I do have some comments.
I believe that you deserved the stress you are having now. You deserve to be suffering (if you think you are) with just being together with your wife. Because you are such a nice gentleman with good upbringing and manners and always caring for others, i believe that is what you deserve in your life.
If your health condition is going from bad to worse, then let it keep on go towards the worst. I think god wanted you to join him soon after being such a thoughtful human for so many years. God sent her to you. Embrace it. DO NOT DIVORCE. Enjoy it and keep on posting. It's also nice to see such responses from you, like you had given me the impression: making it interesting in a forum. That's maybe the last task you can do to bring joy to the world.
Im writing in plain, simple to understand words. If you do not understand what i mean (as i seen in some of your posts that your understandings/intelligence-level are quite low/limited), it is destined that you are borned not to be that intellectual. So don't worry too much about it. Maybe the next step you can do is to prepare your will and enjoy the rest of the days. You will be freed soon.
I believe that you deserved the stress you are having now. You deserve to be suffering (if you think you are) with just being together with your wife. Because you are such a nice gentleman with good upbringing and manners and always caring for others, i believe that is what you deserve in your life.
If your health condition is going from bad to worse, then let it keep on go towards the worst. I think god wanted you to join him soon after being such a thoughtful human for so many years. God sent her to you. Embrace it. DO NOT DIVORCE. Enjoy it and keep on posting. It's also nice to see such responses from you, like you had given me the impression: making it interesting in a forum. That's maybe the last task you can do to bring joy to the world.
Im writing in plain, simple to understand words. If you do not understand what i mean (as i seen in some of your posts that your understandings/intelligence-level are quite low/limited), it is destined that you are borned not to be that intellectual. So don't worry too much about it. Maybe the next step you can do is to prepare your will and enjoy the rest of the days. You will be freed soon.
Wah, everybody thinks the problem is with me. Ok lah, its me . I think that is wat really evryone wants to hear.
No problem. When a non womanising man, do household man tries to explain things, he is egositic , blah, blah, Not even one person on this thread defends the man.
No one is listening. they just look for points to attack the guy, its obvious .The woman has all the excuses to behave she does but the guy is always the person who fails to understand.
Its very lob sided, read back and see for yrself.
To nemo, actually its more than that, she also uses the pencil to poke my son when angry.
To all, u think I wouldn't understand that there a possiblity of post natal derpression? but is it a good excuse to behave badly and use the excuse " I can't seem to control myself?" If u all were reading, u would know that I took care of my grandma when I was 10, wouldn't i know about understanding others, you all just don't want to acknowledge such facts and push all the blame to the guy?
Why? Why can you all be honest and be objective?
Why behave like a sharp tongues club ? read back and see, it sounds terrible.
Faith , there is no explaination here, its just the guy don't understand the woman thing.
What is there to understand for a woman to slap a child and tug the hair.
FYI, of course its more than once and more than that is being mentioned in this thread.
Would someone want to mention it if it were a rare occurence?
No problem. When a non womanising man, do household man tries to explain things, he is egositic , blah, blah, Not even one person on this thread defends the man.
No one is listening. they just look for points to attack the guy, its obvious .The woman has all the excuses to behave she does but the guy is always the person who fails to understand.
Its very lob sided, read back and see for yrself.
To nemo, actually its more than that, she also uses the pencil to poke my son when angry.
To all, u think I wouldn't understand that there a possiblity of post natal derpression? but is it a good excuse to behave badly and use the excuse " I can't seem to control myself?" If u all were reading, u would know that I took care of my grandma when I was 10, wouldn't i know about understanding others, you all just don't want to acknowledge such facts and push all the blame to the guy?
Why? Why can you all be honest and be objective?
Why behave like a sharp tongues club ? read back and see, it sounds terrible.
Faith , there is no explaination here, its just the guy don't understand the woman thing.
What is there to understand for a woman to slap a child and tug the hair.
FYI, of course its more than once and more than that is being mentioned in this thread.
Would someone want to mention it if it were a rare occurence?
You understand there's a possibility of post natal depression. Did you both seek help on that? If I'm not wrong, it takes a while to recover.
John, I was bombed by the entire audience here for my own problems before lor hor. If only 1 or 2 people is saying that I'm wrong, then perhaps I wouldn't think much of it. When almost everyone unanimously comment similar things to me, I was jerked out of my position and defense. Definitely everyone can't be wrong right. There must be something wrong with myself. I stopped trying to be defensive when people tell me that I was selfish. I also had to learn to accept that perhaps the problem lied with me as well.
Actually if you read carefully, many of us here aren't even pushing the entire blame to you. We are just asking you to step out of your own world to look at a bigger picture.
You are asking for people to make your wife feel guilty. What for may I ask?
Why don't you talk to her regarding tugging and poking your child? I don't see why you can't communicate nicely to her that it is detrimental to a child's development? No mothers would want to do that to her child on purpose.
John, I was bombed by the entire audience here for my own problems before lor hor. If only 1 or 2 people is saying that I'm wrong, then perhaps I wouldn't think much of it. When almost everyone unanimously comment similar things to me, I was jerked out of my position and defense. Definitely everyone can't be wrong right. There must be something wrong with myself. I stopped trying to be defensive when people tell me that I was selfish. I also had to learn to accept that perhaps the problem lied with me as well.
Actually if you read carefully, many of us here aren't even pushing the entire blame to you. We are just asking you to step out of your own world to look at a bigger picture.
You are asking for people to make your wife feel guilty. What for may I ask?
Why don't you talk to her regarding tugging and poking your child? I don't see why you can't communicate nicely to her that it is detrimental to a child's development? No mothers would want to do that to her child on purpose.
Cannot ask her why she treats you disrespectfully or what you have done to garner that kinda reaction from her meh?
If she tells you that it is a natural behaviour of hers, then tell her that you don't appreciate her behaving that way. If she cannot be bothered to answer you, then you got your answer le lor. It is about both of you compromising la.
If she tells you that it is a natural behaviour of hers, then tell her that you don't appreciate her behaving that way. If she cannot be bothered to answer you, then you got your answer le lor. It is about both of you compromising la.
alcifertoh
New Member
I am starting to feel sorry for the wife. TS, you belong to the Ming Dynasty. If you do read back yourself, no one challenged you being a household man and it's virtues. It's you who sucked on so deeply to it and when told that what you did do not neccessary equates to appreciation, you can't swollow it.
You keep whining and dwelling on your effort what you have done and expect people to take your stand.
I can safely tell you that among those who replied you, there are men who contribute the same or even more towards the household than you in terms of chores/financial but they do it because they wanted to do it and not expecting certain kind of returns.
Now everyone is telling you that your role as a "wonder" husband might not goes down well with your wife and there are issues that you need to work out and you are still harping on your efforts.
Defend? Defend what? A common view is pin pointed and you claimed everyone defending woman? Just like when you feel your wife should bow down for what you have done? Let me toss offer you a bucket of cold water to splash on yourself. You ain't the champion of husbands. Your feat can be easily done and outperformed by any husbands if they want to. What speaks of a man who needs to use these reasons to justify for his worth? If you felt that you are being "abused", go apply an IPO.
How far is your cry from a school kid being bullied at school? If we wanna talk about manhood, you can't even handle your wife.
I felt like I am talking to an ostrich that stuffed it's head into the ass. Probably you should start off the thread titled, "I am a wonder husband" 80% of your posts seek for acknowledgement and bringing down your wife.
If I am a woman, and your wife, I'll leave you. Happier for me, for you and the children. If you are my friend, I would tell you don't try to be someone whom you are not and then KPKB about it. A saying in chinese, Yi Xiang Qing Yuan.
You keep whining and dwelling on your effort what you have done and expect people to take your stand.
I can safely tell you that among those who replied you, there are men who contribute the same or even more towards the household than you in terms of chores/financial but they do it because they wanted to do it and not expecting certain kind of returns.
Now everyone is telling you that your role as a "wonder" husband might not goes down well with your wife and there are issues that you need to work out and you are still harping on your efforts.
Defend? Defend what? A common view is pin pointed and you claimed everyone defending woman? Just like when you feel your wife should bow down for what you have done? Let me toss offer you a bucket of cold water to splash on yourself. You ain't the champion of husbands. Your feat can be easily done and outperformed by any husbands if they want to. What speaks of a man who needs to use these reasons to justify for his worth? If you felt that you are being "abused", go apply an IPO.
How far is your cry from a school kid being bullied at school? If we wanna talk about manhood, you can't even handle your wife.
I felt like I am talking to an ostrich that stuffed it's head into the ass. Probably you should start off the thread titled, "I am a wonder husband" 80% of your posts seek for acknowledgement and bringing down your wife.
If I am a woman, and your wife, I'll leave you. Happier for me, for you and the children. If you are my friend, I would tell you don't try to be someone whom you are not and then KPKB about it. A saying in chinese, Yi Xiang Qing Yuan.
Come on lah... Why wanna distinguish between man or woman giving advices....
Post Natal Depression is NOT AN EXCUSE!.. It's an illness... Maybe your wife is suffering from it but instead of showing a REAL GOOD Husband (who U keep insisting U are ONE), U came in here and RANT!!
Read more: http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/health_advice/facts/depressionpostnatal.htm
U really/definately ONE KIND................
Post Natal Depression is NOT AN EXCUSE!.. It's an illness... Maybe your wife is suffering from it but instead of showing a REAL GOOD Husband (who U keep insisting U are ONE), U came in here and RANT!!
Read more: http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/health_advice/facts/depressionpostnatal.htm
U really/definately ONE KIND................
alcifertoh
New Member
Iris, he used work stress to counter post natal stress. That shows his capacity.
alcifertoh
New Member
Oh.. haha recently don't know why I had been using wrong terms quite often. Mind too cluttered 
U wanna buy? My JJJ IPO? We just got listed I give u 5 cents off the listing price.
U wanna buy? My JJJ IPO? We just got listed I give u 5 cents off the listing price.John,
your wife has her set of problems... if You bother to read, we could identify with her part. be it due to possible depression, character traits etc...
the other aspect is You... which u failed to see.
i seriously wonder why in the world did u allow her to keep playing the role of a 'baddie' in the house?
did u Really try to resolve her behaviour, or so u thought that u did?
U need to explore her constant unreasonable-ness... however, U r more interested in glorifying your deeds...
what's the freaking deal? she've had already gotten used to You - doing the chores and pampering.
here are your problems...
- u can't stop blaming Her for failing to see u as a good husband.
- u are too self-absorbed into promoting urself to the world that u r a good catch.
when in actual fact, u should focus on...
- identifying her main source of unreasonable-ness,
- reflecting upon urself during the conflicts,
- improving ur communication method,
- discussing the post-counselling sessions with her.
well, did you?
and didn't you?
Yours sincerely,
Chairman of Sharp Tongues' Club
your wife has her set of problems... if You bother to read, we could identify with her part. be it due to possible depression, character traits etc...
the other aspect is You... which u failed to see.
i seriously wonder why in the world did u allow her to keep playing the role of a 'baddie' in the house?
did u Really try to resolve her behaviour, or so u thought that u did?
U need to explore her constant unreasonable-ness... however, U r more interested in glorifying your deeds...
what's the freaking deal? she've had already gotten used to You - doing the chores and pampering.
here are your problems...
- u can't stop blaming Her for failing to see u as a good husband.
- u are too self-absorbed into promoting urself to the world that u r a good catch.
when in actual fact, u should focus on...
- identifying her main source of unreasonable-ness,
- reflecting upon urself during the conflicts,
- improving ur communication method,
- discussing the post-counselling sessions with her.
well, did you?
and didn't you?
Yours sincerely,
Chairman of Sharp Tongues' Club
HBH - Hiazz... U really stressed...
If I really have such a husband, I will go "long piak"... As though he is the one and only fantastic husband that is living in this world...
Wake up the idea.. whatever those "so call" good things U have done for your wife are just PEANUTS to me (from your posts).....................
Serve U the Right way......... "read those capital words in this paragraph"
If I really have such a husband, I will go "long piak"... As though he is the one and only fantastic husband that is living in this world...
Wake up the idea.. whatever those "so call" good things U have done for your wife are just PEANUTS to me (from your posts).....................
Serve U the Right way......... "read those capital words in this paragraph"
mum_of_2_girls
New Member
Hi John,
Is your wife very beautiful to you visually and physically? Maybe that's why you put up with all her nonesense.
My Dad is a hen-pecked husband. My Mum mentally abuse my Dad all the time (luckily, no physical violent) and yet he worships the ground she walks on. But my Mum has a killer figure and looks real good in a cheongsam.
My Dad is so proud of her at my wedding dinner.
She is like the most beautiful auntie in my wedding.
Sometimes, I can't understand why men put up with such nonesense.
Question to all guys:
If you can only choose one of them,
Will you marry an ugly, kind-hearted girl or a beautiful, bad temper girl?
Is your wife very beautiful to you visually and physically? Maybe that's why you put up with all her nonesense.
My Dad is a hen-pecked husband. My Mum mentally abuse my Dad all the time (luckily, no physical violent) and yet he worships the ground she walks on. But my Mum has a killer figure and looks real good in a cheongsam.
My Dad is so proud of her at my wedding dinner.
She is like the most beautiful auntie in my wedding.
Sometimes, I can't understand why men put up with such nonesense.
Question to all guys:
If you can only choose one of them,
Will you marry an ugly, kind-hearted girl or a beautiful, bad temper girl?
hey mister, the immaturity you are displaying is so excellent i think sesame streets will be glad to have you join them. or rather not.
i'm not sorry to say this because you ASKED for help and you are refusing everything we are saying here BECAUSE in your really tiny heart, you already HAVE an answer for yourself - YOU ARE RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT SO RIGHT THAT YOU SHOULD CONDEMN THIS WOMAN AND DIVORCE HER.
Since you already have an answer, why still asking around and even dramatizing it up?
If you want any real advice, don't bug faith, don't return insults to the other posters, ASK yourself. are you too TIMID to take the next step? C'mon, reality slaps back; everyone thinks they are perfect in every single thing they do, or rather, WANTS to think they are perfect in every way. but truth is, very often we are not! so why can't you MAN up, face the fact that yes SHE DID WRONG (perhaps A LOT of grave grave mistakes) but YOU also ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN. you married her the first place; you said your vows etc. As cliche as it may sound, it takes 2 hands to clap - 2 hands to make n ruin a relationship. Don't be too idealistic n try to be the most ideal person in the entire world. You are not. We are ALL not.
You only CARE about your health, what about your children? Protect them from the "tugging" and "slapping"? You talked about your children in this entire thread but from a secondary placing, your health is as first. Fine, why not seek the most voiced solution here to help THEM? Go ahead and stop crawling back here to BEG for "REAL" help because, look through at all the posts posted, forumers have been trying to advice you, give you help in trying to understand the situation, suggested possible next step BUT YOU ARE DIGGING A HOLE DEEPER AND DEEPER into a whirlpool of MESS by adding more color to the story, dismissing almost everything we had tried to help.
So let me ask you, what do you want us to say here? that you are right, you are great?
Mister JOhn, if you really want to save your "ailing" health, pls MAN up and make a possible quick decision. SAVE YOUR CHILDREN THE MISERY. SAVE YOURSELF THE TROUBLE. From my and perhaps i believe i speak for most of the forumers' perspective here that we don't see any possible rainbow at the end of the road for your marriage. At the very least, please give your children what is best - Not 2 parents fighting n bickering and subsequently ending up in a tragic mess. 1 happy parent is better than 2 unhappy ones. Don't wait until its too late. Stop begging for attention. If you WANT to hold on to the marriage, WE KUDOS you and support your decision, but don't come here and throw us even more rubbish each time, swinging back and forth back and forth. We are NOT ASKING you to divorce your wife, (don't ever throw this blame on us), we are ADVISING you what is PERHAPS the BEST solution for you, your wife and your CHILDREN. But if you think otherwise, just go ahead.
We are NOT throwing the blame on the guy - honestly, what's so great about a man who does "EVERYTHING" in your dictionary? don't you think whatever you have described is the bare minimum that responsibility and love that is unspoken requirement? Take time to read the threads around here, there are MEN who do much more for their wives and families. Perhaps you are a great guy, we don't know. We are merely asking you to PONDER PONDER PONDER PONDER PONDER your part in this break down. People make mistakes. We are in NO position to say "you are right" "she is wrong" "you are wrong" "we are wrong". No. we AREN'T in your relationship we won't know because everything is from YOUR POINT OF VIEW. We can only deduce from your posts things about you and the situation. So we advice you from the best possible way we can. And you don't like it.
Honestly, i pity your children. Not only the physical abuses they suffer possibly from your wife (i agree with you that it is wrong), but they are suffering from a breakdown of 2 adults' sanity who are suppose to be the "Loving role-models and source of happiness in their early life". If you really love your children, help them first. Think what is the best solution for them YET not compromising my own sanity. You are their father, their love their source of inspiration. you have to give them back what they deserve, your cool-headedness and SANITY.
In all my time in this forum, i have NEVER ever met a man like you. Patience, kindness and tolerance are nothing to you. Sarcasm works to trigger you and pity and concurrence is what you want.
However, i do apologize for my outburst if it really hurts you because i feel that your insensitivity and refusal to wake up AND on top of that, posted REALLY awful generalization about women pissed me, and i guess everyone here in this forum off. So do us a favor, don't hurl insults back at us, don't try to win us over or anything, YOU ARE THE SOURCE OF YOUR OWN PIT HOLE. We have given you the possible ways you should help yourself, it is UP TO YOU if you want to try them OR NOT.
We'll always welcome you back here when you really want to accept what we suggest, even if they are usually not the most pleasant OR the things you WANT to hear. Realty slaps you really, really really hard.
i'm not sorry to say this because you ASKED for help and you are refusing everything we are saying here BECAUSE in your really tiny heart, you already HAVE an answer for yourself - YOU ARE RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT SO RIGHT THAT YOU SHOULD CONDEMN THIS WOMAN AND DIVORCE HER.
Since you already have an answer, why still asking around and even dramatizing it up?
If you want any real advice, don't bug faith, don't return insults to the other posters, ASK yourself. are you too TIMID to take the next step? C'mon, reality slaps back; everyone thinks they are perfect in every single thing they do, or rather, WANTS to think they are perfect in every way. but truth is, very often we are not! so why can't you MAN up, face the fact that yes SHE DID WRONG (perhaps A LOT of grave grave mistakes) but YOU also ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN. you married her the first place; you said your vows etc. As cliche as it may sound, it takes 2 hands to clap - 2 hands to make n ruin a relationship. Don't be too idealistic n try to be the most ideal person in the entire world. You are not. We are ALL not.
You only CARE about your health, what about your children? Protect them from the "tugging" and "slapping"? You talked about your children in this entire thread but from a secondary placing, your health is as first. Fine, why not seek the most voiced solution here to help THEM? Go ahead and stop crawling back here to BEG for "REAL" help because, look through at all the posts posted, forumers have been trying to advice you, give you help in trying to understand the situation, suggested possible next step BUT YOU ARE DIGGING A HOLE DEEPER AND DEEPER into a whirlpool of MESS by adding more color to the story, dismissing almost everything we had tried to help.
So let me ask you, what do you want us to say here? that you are right, you are great?
Mister JOhn, if you really want to save your "ailing" health, pls MAN up and make a possible quick decision. SAVE YOUR CHILDREN THE MISERY. SAVE YOURSELF THE TROUBLE. From my and perhaps i believe i speak for most of the forumers' perspective here that we don't see any possible rainbow at the end of the road for your marriage. At the very least, please give your children what is best - Not 2 parents fighting n bickering and subsequently ending up in a tragic mess. 1 happy parent is better than 2 unhappy ones. Don't wait until its too late. Stop begging for attention. If you WANT to hold on to the marriage, WE KUDOS you and support your decision, but don't come here and throw us even more rubbish each time, swinging back and forth back and forth. We are NOT ASKING you to divorce your wife, (don't ever throw this blame on us), we are ADVISING you what is PERHAPS the BEST solution for you, your wife and your CHILDREN. But if you think otherwise, just go ahead.
We are NOT throwing the blame on the guy - honestly, what's so great about a man who does "EVERYTHING" in your dictionary? don't you think whatever you have described is the bare minimum that responsibility and love that is unspoken requirement? Take time to read the threads around here, there are MEN who do much more for their wives and families. Perhaps you are a great guy, we don't know. We are merely asking you to PONDER PONDER PONDER PONDER PONDER your part in this break down. People make mistakes. We are in NO position to say "you are right" "she is wrong" "you are wrong" "we are wrong". No. we AREN'T in your relationship we won't know because everything is from YOUR POINT OF VIEW. We can only deduce from your posts things about you and the situation. So we advice you from the best possible way we can. And you don't like it.
Honestly, i pity your children. Not only the physical abuses they suffer possibly from your wife (i agree with you that it is wrong), but they are suffering from a breakdown of 2 adults' sanity who are suppose to be the "Loving role-models and source of happiness in their early life". If you really love your children, help them first. Think what is the best solution for them YET not compromising my own sanity. You are their father, their love their source of inspiration. you have to give them back what they deserve, your cool-headedness and SANITY.
In all my time in this forum, i have NEVER ever met a man like you. Patience, kindness and tolerance are nothing to you. Sarcasm works to trigger you and pity and concurrence is what you want.
However, i do apologize for my outburst if it really hurts you because i feel that your insensitivity and refusal to wake up AND on top of that, posted REALLY awful generalization about women pissed me, and i guess everyone here in this forum off. So do us a favor, don't hurl insults back at us, don't try to win us over or anything, YOU ARE THE SOURCE OF YOUR OWN PIT HOLE. We have given you the possible ways you should help yourself, it is UP TO YOU if you want to try them OR NOT.
We'll always welcome you back here when you really want to accept what we suggest, even if they are usually not the most pleasant OR the things you WANT to hear. Realty slaps you really, really really hard.
alcifertoh
New Member
I think TS lives on rules. Rules he set for himself which he might just live off it falling to the term principles and ideas being the sole compass of his life. But he just don't realise that he's being just a fix thinking only all about himself and dreamingly functioning as the self made N2 that's reactive to all elements when he's the most inert on the chart. I really doubt he had thought about the BIG PICTURE (courtesy from some lame visionary that I could not remember) than his own narrow minded views. Such are people whom I would not even take a piece of tissue which they offer. Cos I might owe them my life.
Side track, eh Vios, I don't wanna be your sharp tongue funds director. Any taker for a great kisser funds director? I can tie the cherry stalk into 2 knots with my tongue *Proud*
Side track, eh Vios, I don't wanna be your sharp tongue funds director. Any taker for a great kisser funds director? I can tie the cherry stalk into 2 knots with my tongue *Proud*
miloice
Well-Known Member
the thread is still going on?
its totally ridiculously unreal folks. A mister perfect that is whinning and disapproving about his Mrs unworthly and ungrateful. BUT at the same time, so forgiving toward her due to his own perfectness.
Its not difficult to understand how frustrating to live with such a self righteous moron.
Get real. In reality, he is a total moron. Either way, regardless u believe him or not : for his boliaoness to start this stupid thread OR his illogical thinking and reasoning.
If he wants advise, start believe in her and stop belittling her with all this nonsense disapproving thinking.
its totally ridiculously unreal folks. A mister perfect that is whinning and disapproving about his Mrs unworthly and ungrateful. BUT at the same time, so forgiving toward her due to his own perfectness.
Its not difficult to understand how frustrating to live with such a self righteous moron.
Get real. In reality, he is a total moron. Either way, regardless u believe him or not : for his boliaoness to start this stupid thread OR his illogical thinking and reasoning.
If he wants advise, start believe in her and stop belittling her with all this nonsense disapproving thinking.
John :
Just to share a few opinions.
*Everybody keeps saying focus on myself , look at myself first but nothing concrete. So what mistake did I make?*
- the pedestrian who was knocked down by drunk driver & a life is gone just like that !what mistake did that pedestrian make ?
- the wife, who husband chose to cheat on many times despite how good the wife is, what mistake did that wife make ?
- young girls who were raped by step father or bro even with the help of their own mum, what mistake did these young girls make ?
- Teens being raped and ended up in IMH ? what mistake did they make ?
The mistake you make is you are too idealistic & u ve ur own set of black/white thinking that a wife must behave in certain ways. Well, humans are imperfect. You claimed how she treat your kids. But to me is nothing, she is not perfect herself, and if she is really suffering from depression, the lack of certain chemical in her brain may cause her to lost control as well.
I have a girl friend,who has depression & when she lost control, & the kid is noisy/naughty, she will lost control & take the cloth hanger to hit him until bleeding! At times, she may shout till neighbours come over to ask what happened..Her hubby, instead of blame her or condemn her, bring her to see doctor & realised she has post natal depression & try to support her as best as he can. That is true giving...true understanding in Action. Her condition improves now..Her hubby is sensitive to her needs & take concrete action to help her & not like you, Only know how to be "fixed" in a thinking, how wrong /horrible she is..
The mistake u make is u keep attack her bad points and not take the advice to bring her see a doctor. Jolly well, she could just be having depression & may improve with medication help.
You may seem to be a good husband, but to me not really so...a good husband who really do things from their heart will do it UNCONDITIONALLY & not do already than expect "returns". IF spouse is appreciative it is a bonus to us, if they are not, either u tel her what u want to get from her OR u just accept the way she is and continue to love her unconditionally.
You want her to at least admit she is wrong - Without her sorry, you cant breathe is it ? Let me tel u, not many pp can say SORRY easily ok. I may be wrong, but i think u r also quite a insecure man who constantly need her approval.
Actually, if u r really that good, u will have been humble & not defensive to others advice to you. Be open minded...
* bring her see doctor
* follow up on marriage counsellor
* write her a letter
* tel her what u feel/think
I can tel u, NO ONE will bother to self reflect in life UNLESS a major trauma happened in their life. MAYBE U PASSED AWAY SUDDENLY DUE TO HEART ATTACK WHEN QUARRELLING WITH HER , that may cause her to reflect !!
So out of the blue moon, u want forumer to talk to your wife, I think she will only feel insulted/ anger.....
Have it ever occured to you, what u do for her, she is thankful in her heart but for some reasons, she cant express that thanks to you, but feel more "comfortable" to treat u in negative way ? And if she really have depression, all the more she cant even thank you properly.
U do things for her than dun expect returns. This is true giving.
And instead of focus on "how much i ve done for her ", "she really treat me like shit", " she so lucky to hv me "....why not just think ? = Maybe what i have done is simply not even good enough in her eyes ? Maybe there is even unresolved anger that she hold against you ?
Just trying to help. And if you want to be defensive, go ahead. But ultimately, your health will never be better even your wife is not with you do u know why ??
Cos whatever pp try to help you, u r just -ve. U take things too personal...and soon, anger will built up in you and soon more sickness.....DUN say your wife attitude lead u to bad health....
IT COULD just be yourself, your own perception/distorted way of thinking that cause your health problems as well....
Come on!. She went thru labour pain to give you children....NOT every woman can go thru tat ok ! Isnt that the best thank you gift/appreciation she gives to you ?
Is either you love her enough to stand by her...
but dun put her down...IF i am her....I will feel disgusted /angry that my husband, on one hand try to treat me like queen, but behind my back, put me down as if i m a very horrible monster.......
Wish you all the best
Just to share a few opinions.
*Everybody keeps saying focus on myself , look at myself first but nothing concrete. So what mistake did I make?*
- the pedestrian who was knocked down by drunk driver & a life is gone just like that !what mistake did that pedestrian make ?
- the wife, who husband chose to cheat on many times despite how good the wife is, what mistake did that wife make ?
- young girls who were raped by step father or bro even with the help of their own mum, what mistake did these young girls make ?
- Teens being raped and ended up in IMH ? what mistake did they make ?
The mistake you make is you are too idealistic & u ve ur own set of black/white thinking that a wife must behave in certain ways. Well, humans are imperfect. You claimed how she treat your kids. But to me is nothing, she is not perfect herself, and if she is really suffering from depression, the lack of certain chemical in her brain may cause her to lost control as well.
I have a girl friend,who has depression & when she lost control, & the kid is noisy/naughty, she will lost control & take the cloth hanger to hit him until bleeding! At times, she may shout till neighbours come over to ask what happened..Her hubby, instead of blame her or condemn her, bring her to see doctor & realised she has post natal depression & try to support her as best as he can. That is true giving...true understanding in Action. Her condition improves now..Her hubby is sensitive to her needs & take concrete action to help her & not like you, Only know how to be "fixed" in a thinking, how wrong /horrible she is..
The mistake u make is u keep attack her bad points and not take the advice to bring her see a doctor. Jolly well, she could just be having depression & may improve with medication help.
You may seem to be a good husband, but to me not really so...a good husband who really do things from their heart will do it UNCONDITIONALLY & not do already than expect "returns". IF spouse is appreciative it is a bonus to us, if they are not, either u tel her what u want to get from her OR u just accept the way she is and continue to love her unconditionally.
You want her to at least admit she is wrong - Without her sorry, you cant breathe is it ? Let me tel u, not many pp can say SORRY easily ok. I may be wrong, but i think u r also quite a insecure man who constantly need her approval.
Actually, if u r really that good, u will have been humble & not defensive to others advice to you. Be open minded...
* bring her see doctor
* follow up on marriage counsellor
* write her a letter
* tel her what u feel/think
I can tel u, NO ONE will bother to self reflect in life UNLESS a major trauma happened in their life. MAYBE U PASSED AWAY SUDDENLY DUE TO HEART ATTACK WHEN QUARRELLING WITH HER , that may cause her to reflect !!
So out of the blue moon, u want forumer to talk to your wife, I think she will only feel insulted/ anger.....
Have it ever occured to you, what u do for her, she is thankful in her heart but for some reasons, she cant express that thanks to you, but feel more "comfortable" to treat u in negative way ? And if she really have depression, all the more she cant even thank you properly.
U do things for her than dun expect returns. This is true giving.
And instead of focus on "how much i ve done for her ", "she really treat me like shit", " she so lucky to hv me "....why not just think ? = Maybe what i have done is simply not even good enough in her eyes ? Maybe there is even unresolved anger that she hold against you ?
Just trying to help. And if you want to be defensive, go ahead. But ultimately, your health will never be better even your wife is not with you do u know why ??
Cos whatever pp try to help you, u r just -ve. U take things too personal...and soon, anger will built up in you and soon more sickness.....DUN say your wife attitude lead u to bad health....
IT COULD just be yourself, your own perception/distorted way of thinking that cause your health problems as well....
Come on!. She went thru labour pain to give you children....NOT every woman can go thru tat ok ! Isnt that the best thank you gift/appreciation she gives to you ?
Is either you love her enough to stand by her...
but dun put her down...IF i am her....I will feel disgusted /angry that my husband, on one hand try to treat me like queen, but behind my back, put me down as if i m a very horrible monster.......
Wish you all the best
well John,
it's not true that everyone's against u, i wasn't... in fact i'm amazed u're this tolerant. your only fault would be the defensive stance u took against the advice.
else personally i dun agree with many of the pple here, in fact most. i was just watching to see how long the taunting would go from Mark, who is obviously having a field-day from his first post... i also dun agree with most parts of sm, vios and HBH, and i actually know them.
u did well ignoring, u should have continuted ignoring... your reply just opened u up further. so i guess when 2 wrongs dun make a right, it's hard to stand in your defence either. so i'll just stick to my advice to go for a divorce...
the only think that does not sit well with me is that in your posts, u dun seem to be looking to have custody of the kids... who are my main concern here considering that she's not very fitting for the role.
if u were a lady, u'll be having the typical hugs, but u're not, so act you gender if u wanna segregate and stereotype the genders...
in your shoes, i would just take the kids and go. i have seen my fair share of very ugly women who live like princesses born to be served and i have given u much benefit of a doubt becos i know such men in such relationships... alot of whom i never understood why they stay, but i also stay away from them - there is only so much whining i can hear from frens whom i have advised to end the marriage.
so back to the same thing... If u dun see a future, End It! if u wanna give a chance for change, then put in double the efforts and give the necessary time for change to take effect. from experience, for change to take effect - the person must know he/she Has a problem, and he/she Wants to change to save the marriage.
it's not true that everyone's against u, i wasn't... in fact i'm amazed u're this tolerant. your only fault would be the defensive stance u took against the advice.
else personally i dun agree with many of the pple here, in fact most. i was just watching to see how long the taunting would go from Mark, who is obviously having a field-day from his first post... i also dun agree with most parts of sm, vios and HBH, and i actually know them.
u did well ignoring, u should have continuted ignoring... your reply just opened u up further. so i guess when 2 wrongs dun make a right, it's hard to stand in your defence either. so i'll just stick to my advice to go for a divorce...
the only think that does not sit well with me is that in your posts, u dun seem to be looking to have custody of the kids... who are my main concern here considering that she's not very fitting for the role.
if u were a lady, u'll be having the typical hugs, but u're not, so act you gender if u wanna segregate and stereotype the genders...
in your shoes, i would just take the kids and go. i have seen my fair share of very ugly women who live like princesses born to be served and i have given u much benefit of a doubt becos i know such men in such relationships... alot of whom i never understood why they stay, but i also stay away from them - there is only so much whining i can hear from frens whom i have advised to end the marriage.
so back to the same thing... If u dun see a future, End It! if u wanna give a chance for change, then put in double the efforts and give the necessary time for change to take effect. from experience, for change to take effect - the person must know he/she Has a problem, and he/she Wants to change to save the marriage.
Mark i'm sori, i think u've been an absolute ass in this thread. u should apologise, u've done nothing constructive and was here to taunt from the word 'Go'...
and pls, rebutt me if u dun feel so. knowing each other does not mean we should extend formality to each other or be nice... i dun do fake nor go for popularity votes.
----------------------
HBH/SM/Vios,
u might have gone further than u should... Once u abandon Reason and join in the fray, it'll turn bad. and it has...
-------------
All,
the role that the TS has been playing is undeniable. i'm not sure how many of u know 'Super-Husbands', but they exists... guys who bring home the bacon, clean the house, take care of kids, parents etc... whilst the wives just stay home and watch serials or do their nails.... There are such women. they just marry to continue being dependent. i guess alot of the stuff is lost when the TS became defensive and started reacting to some of the ridiculous taunting that went in here...
those of u who bother to search yourself and find that u have gone overboard at Any stage - should fcuking apologise...
and pls, rebutt me if u dun feel so. knowing each other does not mean we should extend formality to each other or be nice... i dun do fake nor go for popularity votes.
----------------------
HBH/SM/Vios,
u might have gone further than u should... Once u abandon Reason and join in the fray, it'll turn bad. and it has...
-------------
All,
the role that the TS has been playing is undeniable. i'm not sure how many of u know 'Super-Husbands', but they exists... guys who bring home the bacon, clean the house, take care of kids, parents etc... whilst the wives just stay home and watch serials or do their nails.... There are such women. they just marry to continue being dependent. i guess alot of the stuff is lost when the TS became defensive and started reacting to some of the ridiculous taunting that went in here...
those of u who bother to search yourself and find that u have gone overboard at Any stage - should fcuking apologise...
miloice
Well-Known Member
powder, its not about the nice things he does. But how he is so much about his goodness. Its ridiculous. And the stupid idea of getting strangers to talk to his wife so that she knows she is wrong. Come on lah. How much dumber can this get?
I'm not standing for sm, vios, or the TS. But, another reader. I don't give this one much credit.
I'm not standing for sm, vios, or the TS. But, another reader. I don't give this one much credit.
yoz powder,
basically, i can’t fathom that John has been trying to convince us that the wife should treat him better because of his super-husbandry tasks...
might be work-able to other couples though.
in his case, there has been an Unreasonable wife for a reason or another, thus it is foolish to expect that an unreasonable person can actually appreciate the old/new gestures and respond accordingly...
not very big-picture-ish, isn’t it? my very first two posts sorta touched on that.
needless to say, his sort of reasoning also explains that he feels that divorcing the wife is like “sacrificing the pawns”....
it is indicative that he rather assumes the ‘good guy’ role than to keep out the children from the ‘baddie’.
isn’t that a wee bit too idealistic from the not-so understanding spouse?
obviously, Divorce or Separation (ironically, the title is shouting aloud) do not work in his books like how it is spelt, then should consider to take measures (as indicated by the forumers) to ease the tense mood between himself and the wife lah…
however Resistance is an understatement, more like seeking Approval.
btw, this is why ‘Mary’ dropped by… not primarily for taunts, although I don’t deny the sarcasm, but the main point is to explore the width as well…
which do not glorify super-John and his cat-calling acts at length.
basically, i can’t fathom that John has been trying to convince us that the wife should treat him better because of his super-husbandry tasks...
might be work-able to other couples though.
in his case, there has been an Unreasonable wife for a reason or another, thus it is foolish to expect that an unreasonable person can actually appreciate the old/new gestures and respond accordingly...
not very big-picture-ish, isn’t it? my very first two posts sorta touched on that.
needless to say, his sort of reasoning also explains that he feels that divorcing the wife is like “sacrificing the pawns”....
it is indicative that he rather assumes the ‘good guy’ role than to keep out the children from the ‘baddie’.
isn’t that a wee bit too idealistic from the not-so understanding spouse?
obviously, Divorce or Separation (ironically, the title is shouting aloud) do not work in his books like how it is spelt, then should consider to take measures (as indicated by the forumers) to ease the tense mood between himself and the wife lah…
however Resistance is an understatement, more like seeking Approval.
btw, this is why ‘Mary’ dropped by… not primarily for taunts, although I don’t deny the sarcasm, but the main point is to explore the width as well…
which do not glorify super-John and his cat-calling acts at length.
well vios,
a book on ethics written in shakespearean language will be lost on certain pple, why throw them the book when they know not the language? better to speak in simple english if intention was indeed to pass on the ethics... it's almost like sending our kids to Uni Philosophy professors... our kids learn nothing becos they dun have the capacity to...
i dun think his intention was to convince anyone but to tell as a fact, in his matter-of-factly style... which is seldom well-taken. so he ended up demonising himself to an audience... his answers were rude, but dun let them turn from facts to lies becos of that.
somewhere along the thread, someone made TS out to be this person out to glorify himself, and THAT put the coloured glasses on the audience. it doesn't help that the more TS presented his matter-of-factly declarations, the more he was made to look like a show-off.
as it is, the glasses are still won by some in this thread.
a book on ethics written in shakespearean language will be lost on certain pple, why throw them the book when they know not the language? better to speak in simple english if intention was indeed to pass on the ethics... it's almost like sending our kids to Uni Philosophy professors... our kids learn nothing becos they dun have the capacity to...
i dun think his intention was to convince anyone but to tell as a fact, in his matter-of-factly style... which is seldom well-taken. so he ended up demonising himself to an audience... his answers were rude, but dun let them turn from facts to lies becos of that.
somewhere along the thread, someone made TS out to be this person out to glorify himself, and THAT put the coloured glasses on the audience. it doesn't help that the more TS presented his matter-of-factly declarations, the more he was made to look like a show-off.
as it is, the glasses are still won by some in this thread.
on the wife’s possible medical conditions that would play a part in this whole saga, if really present….
pretty unwise to rule those out, or undermine the consequences which John shockingly did.
no one should be threatened with abuses, definitely, but the abused spouse has a part to play by standing firm to that sort of stuffs at the onset…
and more essentially, protects the innocent children from the abuser, ie. slapping and hair-tugging of their child.
so i’m pretty certain that John is rather nonchalant on understanding the wife’s emotion health as a part of it all…
just read his various comments on their counseling trips then can roughly guess liao… even though some mediators can be far too neutral in the sucky way.
despite being unreasonable and all that, i believe that she needs professional help on her abusive behaviour and definitely, family support works hand in hand.
there has gotta be a real Start somewhere, otherwise, still UNRESOLVABLE in the years ahead.
pretty unwise to rule those out, or undermine the consequences which John shockingly did.
no one should be threatened with abuses, definitely, but the abused spouse has a part to play by standing firm to that sort of stuffs at the onset…
and more essentially, protects the innocent children from the abuser, ie. slapping and hair-tugging of their child.
so i’m pretty certain that John is rather nonchalant on understanding the wife’s emotion health as a part of it all…
just read his various comments on their counseling trips then can roughly guess liao… even though some mediators can be far too neutral in the sucky way.
despite being unreasonable and all that, i believe that she needs professional help on her abusive behaviour and definitely, family support works hand in hand.
there has gotta be a real Start somewhere, otherwise, still UNRESOLVABLE in the years ahead.