Need help/advise.. bf in cc debt

ahyip

New Member
Here's the situation -

We've dated for about 18 months now. He's 30+ and pretty good to me. We have common interest and get along and communicate well.

Around 3 months in the relationship, I happen to find out that he's actually in some kind of credit card debt. I confronted him and he say he's trying to pay it off already. The amount around 5k. Till recently, i ask him how much has he paid off, the debt is still around the same, (5k shouldn't take so long to pay off right). So after drilling him for abit, he confessed that it's more then 1 card, total amount pilled up to 18k over 3-4years. He brings home around 2.8k(with lots of OT) a month, after paying off his car loan, bills, insurance, he's only left with 1k(at most). That's the amount left for food n to clear the debt. I felt so bad and sad the moment I found out. And to think we even went phuket 6 months ago. If i were to know he's in SO MUCH debt, I wouldn't have go ahead with that plan. At the same time, I felt really disappointed with his money management and feel very insecure. But he has realise his mistake and whats done has been done. No point crying over split milk. I believe I should give him a chance to settle..

So I sat down with him, do some financial planning, let him realise where his money goes and hope he can understand where's the problem lies and what's the situation he's really facing. I told him he had to really saved up every single cents already.

I wanted him to sell the car. He's paying total around 1k(petrol, installment, parking) on it. But he said it's a lost in money, COE so high now and he needed for his work. So i say at least he has to stop the interest rate and late payment. I ask him to borrowed from his relatives first. He wouldn't do that, saying he doesn't want to owns them a favour. So I asked him to go take up some financial loan from 1 bank, paid off all the credit cards and just concentrate on paying the monthly repayment. He tried a few banks and they rejected his application..

I've never been in this kind of financial situation before and all the above solutions is all I can think of. I'm actually quite stress out after knowing this. 18k may not be a huge amount of money but it's not little as well, at least I don't even have that in my savings.

Giving him advise, encouraging him to solve the problem is the only way I can help him now. If all his personal loans application doesn't gets approved, I see no end to this matter. The interest will just keep increasing.. please any advise here..
 


miloice

Well-Known Member
Seriously, you should reconsider the relationship. This man doesn't face his problems and letting it snowball while paying only interests. He is more concerned about oweing family and friends favor than his survival. What an idiot.

Continue to give him all the advise, but at the end of the day, he needs to take charge and be responsible, not you mothering him. He should be trying to contact banks directly asking for a personal loan to consolidate his debts. He is giving up too easily or have no prove for the bank on his ability to repay hence no one is taking up his case. There are lots of banks out there wanting to encourage loaning. Doing a lot of OT isn't the way to increase one's income. One should be looking beyond his current job. Take on a 2nd job if required.

Check with the banks on what criteria must he work on to qualify for the loan.
 

rofthelper

Member
Bro MiLo, what you just said is true. The boyfrd has poor money management skills. That's why keep chasing behind the debts.

Maybe let's TS give her boyfrd a 2nd chance bah, since the debt actually happen 3-4 years back. With two heads working together, they may work something out.

I think the main burden should be his car loan and car expenses. (Make up of almost 50% of his salary) He can look for other options, like carpool to reduce the burden.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
The concern is not about past mistakes, but the reason why he let it continue. He isn't hard driving enough to fix his problem. Don't want to ask friends and family for help because of face. Come on, this man isn't realistic with himself.

Do so much OT in his work can help meh? Is it pushing for a promotion or to justify his management to revise his package in his job with all these OT? He doesn't think like a 30+.
 

ahyip

New Member
Oh.. I've definitely thought about breaking up with him, but every relationship has it's own problem, I feel that I shouldn't give up so easily.

Check with the banks on what criteria must he work on to qualify for the loan. <-- I'll ask him to do that
 

rofthelper

Member
Bro MiLo, maybe you can enlighten TS or others, as how to reduce his debts.

As you mentioned, seek part time job, freelance etc, tuition, pamphlet distribution. etc...

Any more input?
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
1stly, this man needs to learn to cast his pride aside. Where is his priorities? He is sucked into a vicious debt cycle. Yet, pride still so damn important to him. What if he is not alone but with kids and wife? Expect them to suffer with him?

For PT jobs, tuition, property, Sales, etc. He needs to explore. setup a booth at weekends to sell some retail, or online shopping website. If he needs to be spoonfed, this is the very reason why TS should wake up and realize this is the man she will face for life should she choose to be with him.

Debt consolidation is the very 1st thing he needs to work on. When his application is rejected, he needs to find out what criteria he is failing and work towards a quantified goal to overcome. There is no solution if he shoots in the dark without a concrete plan.
 

ahyip

New Member
I don't know how he can leave with all the debts. I've told him my concerns and it's up to him if he wanted to learn from his lesson. I'm not siding him or what, of cause I'm frustrated with how he managed to let the debt snowball till this far and refuse to seek for help. Trying his best but yet doing nothing concrete is not enough. I've given thoughts not just on the problem, and on our relationship. Oh yes.. trust me, I did. Hence the title isn't "Should i leave him".. because I will, if he doesn't shows any improvement and I see no future with him.

I agree borrowing money from relatives is the most ideal solution and pay them back monthly, can save interest on that. He says he will leave that for the last resort, if there's no outcome from the banks.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
"but every relationship has it's own problem, I feel that I shouldn't give up so easily."

It isn't about giving up easily. It is about knowing exactly what you want and where you are heading. With a 30 yr old that doesn't want to face his problems, that places his pride before bread and butter. You know where it will lead. I'm not telling you to dump him. But know exactly what you are getting into. Is this what you really want?

He needs to learn the importance of finance management and prioritization. You can only advise and not run it for him. Give him the time to prove himself. If he doesn't, you have your answer.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
One thing he can try, does he have insurance policies? He can loan from his own policy at a lower interest rate than the banks.

He should call his insurance asap if he hasn't.
 

ahyip

New Member
Yes, I agree he needs to learn the importance of finance management and prioritization. It is his own responsibility and he needs to prove me that he can really settle it and have learnt from it. Hence I only advise him and not lent him the money. It'll be a huge problem if he doesn't learn in the end and I choose to leave him.

Loan from insurance policies? I didn't know we could do that. I'll definitely ask him to call his agent and give it a try.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Yes you can loan from your insurance. You will have a guaranteed bonus amount, that part is loanable at good interest rates.
 

clover108

New Member
I would personally see this as a red flag. It is not enough to have the person treat you nice etc etc to continue in a committed relationship with him. It's the whole package you need to look at.

Unless he strikes lottery, he is not going to be able to clear his debt anytime soon. Borrowing from relatives is kind of unfair to them, one shd not impose on them unless they are very close relatives and are able and willing to help.

Although it happened in the past, the key question is, how did he get into this mess in the first place? Was the debt incurred for parents' medical bills? Or was it because he wanted things he could not afford? Did he not consider the consequences? Was it a case of enjoy first, face the consequences later?

If you are thinking of marrying him later, the reality is it would stretch both of you financially to buy your own home. I am not sure if it is even doable by the time you want to marry.

Let your bf come up with his own plan on how he wants to deal with this and the timeline to clear the debt. If he can't come up with a plan that is feasible and can be implemented soon, then I think you have your answer.

If you are considering how to help him with your own money, do be prepared for the relationship not to turn out the way you want, despite your willingness to "invest" money in it.

If money woes are already present before you get married, they will not go away after marriage and certainly not after the children come along. You would not want a marriage to be plagued by arguments/disagreements over money because it will kill the marriage.

Be realistic, don't ignore the red flag, know your limitations and walk away if your bf is unwilling to make the sacrifices needed to deal with his debt. Honestly, owning a car is indeed a luxury and for someone earning 2K+, it sounds like extreme indulgence to me. It takes such a huge chunk of his monthly income and he is not willing to give it up. Does he not have to support parents? Is he not concerned with setting aside for rainy day? For future marriage and children? He is already 30+, if he doesn't start saving , then when?

Well another thing you can ask him to do is go get a higher paying job, if he can.
 

ahyip

New Member
Hi Clover, You've spell out my concern.. lol.. I've thought about that, infact, that's the first question I asked him when I found out about the debt. He mentioned about marriage in like 2 years time when we started but it's been a year + now. I'm not ignoring the red flag, I've done the calculation, even if he could find a repayment loan, he will need at least 3 years to repay finish. Then start saving for another 3 years? That's 6 years in total. Can I/am I willing to wait? Is it worth it? What if he doesn't learn and change? Btw, I know if I ever wanted to lent him some money for whatever reason, I have to be prepared that I will not be able to get these money back.

But I guess before I decide to leave him or not, I should try and help him. I've told him about loadning from insurance, and he just shake his head and say no. Something about not good. He say he will go to the credit card bank then he owns and talk to them to see if they could turn it into a repayment loan.

Yes, I think I've done enough. I'll just sit bank and watch now. I guess when it reach that point, I just need to talk to the right person, and they will give me a push to move on.
 

simpleman

Active Member
Insurance loan among the best rates available - typically about 5% to 6% - much less than credit card of 24% or credit line of 15%. And lower than personal loan which will be around 4%-5% flat discounted which will translate to around 9% to 10%. sometimes you can get personal loan at a lesser rate.. but I guess nothing beats the loan from insurance - as long as you are going to repay them in a fixed time frame.

So he says no or shakes his head - meaning he does not understand.. What not good? As long as you return the loan about in 2 to 3 years - it will not affect your insurance policy.

And why with a 2+K salary he die die must have a car? Cheaper to take taxi.
 

powder

Active Member
2.8k/mth, 18k debt, drives a car...

unless he has Alot of Drive, Alot of Determination, is in a Comm-based job... u guys have a rather long way to go.

if u try to advise somemore, i dun think he's gonna appreciate it but instead find u a nag and drag.

it's a pretty good time to sell his car now, but will depend on his loan outstanding... cos he may not be able to sell unlss his loan is lower than his car value. then wat? from experience, i think he would not be seeing more than 5k in cash from the proceeds of selling car, so it's not viable. i seldom see ppe take back alot, and for his salary, i believe he won't get even a cent back.

i dun think borrowing is gonna help him... realizing the urgency to return the money is what he needs.
 

confused09

New Member
hi yiping,

sign him up for credit counselling at CCS.

i think the both of you may benefit more when there's a guided channel for help. besides, someone else will be dispensing the advice to him on money management, that takes the load of your shoulders. he may be more receptive to a 3rd party's advice as well if his man pride suffers when it's coming from his woman.

i don't think a car is really affordable in Singapore unless one has Disposable Income to buy and maintain one. downgrade the car to one that's more fuel effective with cheaper road tax if he's unwilling to make do without one. powder and simpleman has given some financially savvy advice regarding this so won't elaborate further.

in most cases, having a family member or relative tide him over while he pays them back slowly interest free is the best possible solution. but rarely would one learn how to better manage their finances this way. it's an easy way out. easy for him to repeat this mistake as well.

he needs to get organized and stop using credit. pay his bills on time, and most importantly, if this becomes a terrible lesson, at least he could draw a hard one on living within his means.

as selfish as it may sound... no matter what, do not fork out your own savings to help him. you catch the drift.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
"I've told him about loadning from insurance, and he just shake his head and say no. Something about not good"

that's why I said he is an idiot. The fire is getting to him and he is still this stubborn and not thinking. Its beyond just poor funds management. Its the inability to think and rationalize. The lack of prioritization and sense of urgency over matters. He will forever victimize himself.
 

simpleman

Active Member
depending on the age of the car, but I doubt there will be any cash back even with the higher re-sale value now.

Changing a car to more fuel efficient or lower road tax is not going to be effective. I am not sure if people do the sums - how much can you save a month? The act of selling / buying car - assuming you downgrade will set up back at least a few Ks. I wonder people dispensing advice - whether do they know what they are talking about.

Even losing money it is still cheaper to sell the car - even considering have to 'top-up' as the additional cash per month can be used to pay off the debts.
 

simpleman

Active Member
Don't borrow from close relatives.. Borrow from friends - and pay them some interest. Cannot be just "return slowly" - must have a payment plan and stick to it.
 

hotrod21

New Member
As he is now carrying the debt of 18K, for bank whom will access on his ability to repay the loan amount actually depend on his credit rating. As now, properly his credit rating is very poor as he had own many card debt and unable to repay those amount.

Is more wise to stop all the credit cards so it will not keep using it to incur more amount. Discuss with the card issuing bank on the repayment method, I sure banks are interested in recovering the amount.

For the car, is there ways he can sell it off to clear the car loan and save up the other for the repayment. If there is the real need for the car, unless he in the Sales line which require him to travel around but this company could have some form of car allowance for him to cover some fuel costs.
 

rofthelper

Member
Hi Yiping, does your boyfrd entitle any special bonus or AWS?

He can seek CCS's help to arrange a DMP (Debt Management Plan) with the banks. HIgher chance since his debt is not that huge. But he must attend the free Info Talk first before they request for a counselling session. Usually 30% of his pay will go into the DMP.

CCS FAQ Link:
http://www.ccs.org.sg/faq.php

Temporally stop all his credit facilities can also act as a good deterrence for him not to further increase the interest.

18k is still manageable if he start to act now, cos 18k can easily snowball to 13k in 3 years time. His debtors can apply WSS against his belongings under his name. His bank account can be freeze if that bank happened to be one of his debtors.

And if any of his debt exceed 10k, he can be sued for bankruptcy.
 

ahyip

New Member
Selling the car is the first thing that came to my mind, even without the debt, there's not much money left for saving after paying for everything else.

He's stop all his credit cards, it's the interest and late payment that is scary.

Have thought of signing him up at CCS, he definitely needs it to straighten his mindset.

I'm not sure what's so bad about Insurance loan to him. I didn't know we could do that in the first place hence can't say much when he reject that idea. I'll read up abit on that first..

Yes, no sense of urgency. Able to let problem drag on for years, stubborn, not thinking right. I'm reading and weighing all the red signs.
 

rofthelper

Member
Insurance loan approval, very fast. Will issue you a cheque within 30 mins.

Interest rate not scary, unless you only pay the minimum sum and keep defaulting the payment, the late fees can be easily add up another 1%.
 

oneder

New Member
From insurance website: "Please be aware that withdrawals and loans will affect policy values and the death benefit, and thus, may have tax consequences."

Didn't know we could take loan out from our policies, but this is what i saw on prudential website. Maybe he is worried that his policy values will be lowered because of the loan. But i think the Life Insurance Policy might really save his LIFE. Clearing the debts fast and stop the interest from accumulating probably benefits him more than getting lesser from the Insurance Policies.
 

rofthelper

Member
From MinLaw

"Bankruptcy is a process where the debtor is publicly recognised to be insolvent. The High Court makes a Bankruptcy Order against the debtor and he is declared a bankrupt if he is unable to pay his debts of at least $10,000."

Last time used to be $5000 in the 1990s if I'm not wrong.

Ya, 10k is not a big amt. But for a guy working 1k/mth, it quite substantial.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Lee, if the loan is repay without defaulting, there will be no penalty. There will definitely be penalties be it any loan if one defaults. But, let's weigh the odds. Is there any interest rates worst off then credit cards ones? Probably only loan sharks is worser off.

Is TS bf intending to default his payments? He is suppose to work out a solution to systematically clear his debt. Not for quick fixes to buy time without any concrete intent to eventually clear them. So, fearing the penalities of loaning from insurance, makes it a bad idea while continue with the current high interest rates is the more viable option. I don't get the logic.
 

ahyip

New Member
He's intending to sort out with the cc bank first, talk with them and hopefully can get a fix repayment loan instead.

Seeing all the reply, insurance loan doesn't sounds so bad indeed. It's suppose to save ur life anyway and cleary his life is in danger now.

10k is alot to me, i dont earn much as well and i know saving is hard. So imagine my horror..
 

susanna_low

New Member
I think he already did the correct step by cancel his cc and to work out a monthly repayment plan and to be disciplined to clear off his debts soon. He will definitely need to cut off even more expenses for each month and like the others say, find a part time job to supplement his income.

I'm not sure about how serious is your r/s but both hb and I work 7 days a week when we are planning for our marriage without external loan.

Hopefully he can also get a good year end bonus to help to pay off his debts, some co like my previous co give minimum 6mths bonus and even more if the co is doing well.
Some co even provide loan to their staff at lower interest rate. Gotta check with HR.
 

jofeny

New Member
A 30+ year old man without any cent of savings and in $18k cc debt is scary.. what has he been doing all these years? 30+ year old man shd be at his peak of his career and saving money for marriage (esp he is attached), rainy days and house/baby..

its true that every relationship has its problem, but this problem is just about himself only, its not at the stage of "relationship".

Be prepared to be the CFO if you want this relationship to work AND IF he agrees to it.. else i see this issue is going to affect your relationship with him moving forward..

there are just too too too many kinds of different problems and conflicts which you 2 have to go thru together if you want to be with him still.. Please protect yourself..
 

susanna_low

New Member
The reasons of being in debt can be taken for consideration too, factors like support for family, investment failure etc..

Secondly, the determination to pay off the debts. There are part time job that pay quite decent too like telemarketers, credit card co promoters etc

I know of someone who lost 30k in gambling and resulted of his fiancee leaving him. He borrowed fr his aunt to pay off his debts.
However during this yr, he worked v hard to pay off his debt by becoming a part time telemarketer getting extra 1-2k+ every month just to pay off his debt. He paid off within a year and now he's happily married with a house, car of his own, of course with a different gal and he never resume his ex gambling habit.
 

jofeny

New Member
our youth is limited, dun abuse it.. set some dates and think carefully if you really want to go for it.. dun just sit back and hope/wait for him to change endlessly.. jia you!
 

babystorm

Member
Confused, other than the car, does he spend lavishly on himself? And how do you all settle the bills while on a date? Do you all splurge?
 

ahyip

New Member
Sorry, not sure which part you are confused about..When we go out, he will insist settling the bills, and only occasionlly let me pay. Before I know his situation, we will frequently visit restaurant(xinwang, swensen) cos i like to eat those food.

Spend lavishly on himself.. other then food, i'll say not really.. but will occansionally(1-2times) spend on small useless stuffs like iphone apps.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
hi Yiping,

"he will insist settling the bills, and only occasionlly let me pay"

this further highlight how unrealistic he is and how much he places his pride above anything else. He set expectations to impress when he can ill afford. I duno abt you, when I was in debt and loaned from friends, insurance and relatives to bail my dad out of his bankruptcy. I was newly attached. Most of our dates were on dutch and we have meals mostly in food courts and hawker / coffeeshops. I knew I would have to repay the debt asap, I have no luxury to spend. Leaving just a few hundred in my account monthly.

This is the no lack of urgency and prioritization that I'm referring to.
 

ahyip

New Member
ah, ps, i tot u were confused about what i wrote lolz

MiLo, if only he was as sensible as u.. I understand what you r toking about. frankly speaking, every cells in my body are telling me to leave him. But my heart is saying I should give him a chance. Give him 1 year and monitor him..
 

mum_of_2_girls

New Member
Hi Yiping,

You sounds young to me. Are you in the early 20s?

I guess time in on your side. By your late 20s, your BF and you should have enough to buy a BTO flat or resale flat for marriage.

I'm in my early 30s. My hubby and I are working towards our retirement plan. Time is our friend. The earlier you start the better because of the magic of compounding.
 

ahyip

New Member
erm i'm not young liao.. 25 this year.. i'm actually running out of time.

I've had another serious talk with him. Mainly telling him what's he's doing is not for me but for himself. Even if i leave him, the problem will still be there, and if next girl comes along, same thing will happen. It also seems that he has given thoughts about selling his car. His main concern about that is he's scare that he it will add on to his debt if the car value is lower then his installment left. He'll be happy to find someone willing to take over the installment.

Only time will tell if he really mean it and have the drive to do it. My time limit stills stay put.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
hi yiping, one thing that I did then, I looked for free lance opportunity as a programmer helping students with their final year projects implementing prototypes and simulation of their design. Those students that left things to the last minute are desperate, rich and willing to spend. Only thing is, for the period, he will have to slog extra hard after office and during weekends.
 

ahyip

New Member
Hi MiLo, sounds like an opportunity. I'll get him to look into that too.

Hi Albee, I don't intend to stay with my hubby parents unless there's really no choice. For now, I'm not sure if he's the 1 I'm going to spent the rest of my life with. He's got a lot to proof to me. The reason why I havn't leave him is because I feel that he's still not hopeless yet since he's willing to hear me out and do something about it(sell his car, quit the online game). He says he understand and will try very hard to settle the debt. Only time will tell if he's serious and I'm holding back till then.
 

blueprincess

New Member
Yiping, u are already 25 yrs old, how long do you want to wait? I understand where u are coming from. But, what if, he does not change? Wldn't u be wasting ur youth?

I am not saying you should abandon him. I am just concerned about how things will turn out and how it will affect you in future.
 


ahyip

New Member
Hi blueprincess, I'm also very worried and thinking about alot of "what if". There's alot of possibilities that will happen. I've said I'll give him a time grace of 1 year and see if he will and how much have he changed. But of cause if I don't see any improvement even before the year ends, I'll move on.

I've also thought what if I leave him now because he has got problems and next one comes along, with some other problems, so I run again?

Believe me, I'm very scare as well. Have I made the right choice? How I wanted to run away all from these.. find another boyfriend lah, so much easier..
 

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