Married 2 months.... And its all spiraling down~

[hammerheadshark]

Never imagined I will be posting here with such a depressing topic but somehow I feel that the entire marriage is completely one-sided. Since there is a mix of male & female here, it would be of a balanced opinion.

When we first got to know each other and when we were together, I told myself harshly, "Give up your old days of partying. Get yourself checked. Sober up! Because this is the girl for you!"

So with that in mind, I went for multiple blood tests to ensure that I am alright physically and told her everything (absolutely... everything) honestly. While it shocked her that I was not the perfect Saint, I made a solemn commitment to her and to her only. Well, took me a couple of weeks to break off contact completely with a couple of friends and when the other single ladies heard I had a girlfriend, they smiled, wished me all the best (just as I'd wished them), shook hands for a final time turned around and left.

Perhaps baring all my skeletons in my closet had an unintended effect on her or I was too stupid in doing so. Shortly after, during arguments, she happily dredged up my past and heaped loads of shit on me. We had countless arguments over this but I made a very careful note and swore never to raise her skeletons in her closet and acknowledged that my life before me knowing her was indeed pretty screwed.

After several major arguments, makeups and so on. I'd decided to propose. The reasons for my proposal are very clear:
- Absolute Commitment to her and our family
- Trust
- Love

She agreed and we had our marriage.

It was not all smooth sailing during marriage preparation though as I somehow get the feeling that she wasn't really handling many things other than preparation of her guest list and doing pretty stuff like, "Oh I would like to have... etc, etc.". Well, the responsibility's on the guy isn't it? So I dived straight in and spent countless nights preparing stuff, checking programme and so on. I began to empathize with Wedding Planners at that moment in time and suddenly had full admiration and had a newfound respect for their jobs.

All was fine after marriage until recently, she began to get a little quarrelsome AGAIN. When it comes to money matters, she did not hesitate to rain insults on my family member whom I had extended a study loan of over $30K to and rained insults on my family member on not being able to return my money, her inability to find a job, lazing around the house, not doing work, shaking legs and so on.

I had tried to resolve the situation by telling her to... Well, spend some time understanding my family members just as I had spent my time and effort trying to understand hers, spending time with her family and friends, interacting and talking to them, offering to help them unconditionally, etc.

Things come to a head when she finally said that, "If you want to end it all, its up to you. I can't be bothered." This came to me as an utter shock as I had told myself over and over again that I am sticking to my wedding vows till "death do us apart" and the "D" word is the last thing on my mind (not when you are married less than 2 months).

Never did it once crossed my mind that she would say it. Arguments are always constant rehashes of my past mistakes (note: NEVER HERS!) and I am wondering what is happening to me psychologically and mentally. I think I had shed more tears in the past 2 years than I had for the initial 11 years of my life.

Perhaps my ideals of how marriage should be: Both parties on equal ground, giving way, showing respect, humility and support. Seeking opinion with each other, learning from past mistakes, tolerance and looking ahead, are too idealistic that I'd failed to account that humans are humans. But I really can't understand, am I giving too much to her by working so hard on my part as a Husband and trying hard to earn the dough that she is literally taking advantage of my weaknesses for her advantage?

 

[uglydude]

Aren't it quite obvious she is taking advantage of u......and people who constantly reminds you of the past are people who has no love for u.....they do wat they can to hurt you by making sure u are constantly reminded that you have to give in to them.....

She is definitely playing mind games with u....no point shedding tears for her....it is time u sit down and have a good talk with her....if she is not willing to change....it is time for u to consider wat is ur next step for this marriage...

 

[sadman2009]

Does she love you in the first place? If there is love in the family, you can work things out and solve this problem. May be you can suggest to her to go for counselling together.
Ask her if she wants the marriage, If she loves you ...

 

[hammerheadshark]

I had asked her yesterday just before we ended the argument.

"Do you love me? Because I can tell you, I do." (yes! From the bottom of my heart and my heart broke as I have to tell her this). She kept quiet at this.
Her final words before terminating the call abruptly? "If you want to end it, then end it. I can't be bothered."

I am not sure what is feeding her all the negatives and pessimistic views, but I was pretty annoyed when she chose to listen to the opinion of others by feeding them false assumptions from her faulty observation (zero interaction!!!) of my family. Engineers would know the most basic logic: "Garbage In, Garbage Out". And what comes out of her colleagues mouths are nothing but negatives, "Oh, forget about it. His family member will not return him a cent." and she extrapolates and exaggerates things (as usual) by making a faulty assumption that it would be true.

I had told her, even in the course of writing my reports at work, I have to cross-check references and look at things as objectively as possible based on research, experiences, real-life experiences and source materials before I can churn out a report. Likewise, for a person to judge another, it is important to interact with another person thoroughly through proper communication, speech, actions, before passing judgement. If not, all the social workers in Singapore would have the easiest job ever.

4 words: "She Refused To Listen" and kept raining insults over and over again and used vulgarities in the process.

And I thought a 30 year old woman, given her rough journey in life, would already have the maturity and experience to examine and assess situation and people from an objective point of view and properly.

And the best part of it all? It started when my handphone ran out of battery (which I had dutifully warned her when I sent continuous messages to her that my handphone is running on 3% battery and it will turn off anytime) and she was unable to call through to me subsequently (because my handphone turned itself off due to low batt). In fact, we came to such a stage whereby in order to constantly assure her that I am not cheating on her (yes, she needs CONSTANT REASSURANCE), I am automatically texting her what I am doing now and where am I.

Been living up to the side of my bargain, vows and promises. Makes me wonder if she had performed the very first step of her vows at all - To make me proud to have her as my wife.....

 

[sadman2009]

Bro, I think you must have told her that you had cheated on your ex-girlfriends many times before, right? That's why she felt so shocked and that's why she felt so insecure.
What have you done so far since the start of your relationship to show that you really love her? Name me a few.

 

[hammerheadshark]

She was my 1st serious gf since I was 18.

Ironically, I was the party being cheated on by all my exs. Never cheated on my gfs. Rather I told her 2 episodes of ONS I had and greatly regretted (even though I do not know her yet when I had my Stands). I am not sure if you would count that as cheating since I had no one to cheat on when the incidents happened.

I gave way to her, acknowledged my mistakes and made a firm commitment not to even drink or hit a pub with good friends. Told her where I am, went straight home after work and kept my eyes to her and myself.

 

[marchbtb_15]

Allow me to say something in view of a lady. Sorry you may correct me if I m wrong. I felt she feel insecure. Very insecure given to your past experiences. No matter what vows, promises you made. She feels very insecure. When she say, "if you wanna end it then end it." I don't think she really wanna end the r/s. think about it. She went through so much with you and eventually got married after it. Maybe you can try to coax her by buying her flowers? Bring her out to a date be it movie date or a romantic place. After that sit down and have a heart to heart talk. Rmb don't throw temper and when you mention you really treasure her, look into her eyes and say it and mean it. Women are very "based on feeling" one. So I hope it helps you. If you really want this r/s. and I know you really want to salvage this r/s given to this text.

 

[uglydude]

I am sure a lot of people here will tells u way to improve the current situation...u can try all of them but i am sure it won't works....becoz i use to have a girlfriend who behaves exactly the way she does....In your case she is your wife so that makes walking out rather very difficult....

Anyway , end of the day i walk out of her and become a happier man....

She will be forever feeling insecure no matter what u do......

Not asking u to walk out...but u need to consider ur options if u try everything and it still dun work....

There is people in this world that just want u to be giving in to them forever...and trust me in the long run u will feel very miserable unless they decided to change.

 

[miloice]

Bro, the only mistake you have is the selection process. If it aren't working, you cannot fix her to work. It takes 2 to tango. Leave emotions aside, for any marriage to work, you need to see the willingless to empathize and share a common understanding and goal. I won't say its a mistake to bear it all. I have friends that did exactly that and while their spouses are somewhat insecure at times, they progressed together with some reassurances from the husband and very happily married.

She is one super paranoid woman (its actually pretty common), its sad that you only discover it after marriage. How did you even come with the believe that she is the one for you. Obviously, you didn't even know her enough to realize that dark side of her.

 

[hammerheadshark]

Thanks everyone.

I understand that she is feeling insecure and since the day we are married, I had not once, shouted at her. Just tried to talk things nicely to her, try to make her understand what things really are instead of what she simply assumes (without finding out the truth or making any effort to) to be. Try to break it down for her. But I am really wondering at the end of the day, if she is listening it in all.

marchbtb_15, thanks for your advice. I'll really talk to her face to face. It is a fact that I made 2 terrible mistakes in the spur of the moment and I am not denying that fact, not in front of her. I wanted both of us to be honest about things, which is why I made the first move of telling her about my mistakes. Seriously, I think if a guy has no intention to change, he won't tell such things to his wife.... Not when they are in the middle of a relationship. Just really want her to know that I feel terrible each time she happily digs out the past again and again and tries to relate it to my 'bad genes' and how it will just 'pass onto her kids' next time.

I certainly do not want my kids to walk down a wrong path. No parents in their right mind would want their children to walk down the wrong path.

Probably we'll go for a post-marriage course together as well, some time after CNY. Before our planned date in July. I just hope that where I had failed (especially the point on the complexity of managing human relations, emotions, feelings and considerations), the counsellor would succeed.

 

[miloice]

Thanks everyone.

I understand that she is feeling insecure and since the day we are married, I had not once, shouted at her. Just tried to talk things nicely to her, try to make her understand what things really are instead of what she simply assumes (without finding out the truth or making any effort to) to be. Try to break it down for her. But I am really wondering at the end of the day, if she is listening it in all.

Isn't this what I'm trying to tell you.... the selection process is the main and perhaps only flaw. Yes, you can try and try. When common sense isn't common. Basic muture respect is not even possible, then you must realize compatibility isn't there. She needs someone without a history and willing to be controlled by her. Lots of women are like this and would go to great extend to justify their need to as a 'right'. When you play piano to a cow, the cow will not appreciate.

 

[marchbtb_15]

Jiayou! Keep us updated on how's the outcome alright! I hope you can succeed!

 

[hammerheadshark]

Isn't this what I'm trying to tell you.... the selection process is the main and perhaps only flaw. Yes, you can try and try. When common sense isn't common. Basic muture respect is not even possible, then you must realize compatibility isn't there. She needs someone without a history and willing to be controlled by her. Lots of women are like this and would go to great extend to justify their need to as a 'right'. When you play piano to a cow, the cow will not appreciate.

I really hold onto the hope that she would really appreciate things one day and not take me for granted. Some of you may ask, "How do you know she is the one for you in the first place?" The thing is, she wasn't like this at all initially!

Perhaps she took great pains to hide what she really is. If that is the case, no amount of sleuthing can actually help. Although she had skeletons as well, I chose to overlook all her past. Listen to all her stories and decide that her exs are people that I would not want to be.

Even now I am treating her nicely, I am really hoping that she is not seeing that as a sign of weakness because the volcano, although dormant, doesn't mean it won't explode.

Going to talk to her tonight after our movie.

 

[xueyu]

I'm writing in general. All females are the same, even though they (we) would never admit it and think that we're all different from the next girl. Problem with females: they set a benchmark on how you treat her in different stages.

Dating period: First 3 months (or however long your honeymoon period lasts) is how a female would judge you. After the initial stage, you slip, even if for a little bit, you'll expect to hear "Last time you not like that one!" or "You used to treat me so much better" or somewhere along those lines.

Throughout the courtship and dating, some females tend to give in to the relationship. But how would you expect her to be understanding if you're spoiling her? A person will never treasure the other person until he/she's gone. You have given her the upper hand by treating her very nicely. She already has this mentality that you would NEVER leave her.

When she say want to end then end, that's really anger. I believe she's just frustrated over the stuff that you guys are quarreling over. We would never understand how the other party feel. Cause no two people are alike. To her, maybe 30K could have gotten you guys a very romantic travel, or just maybe, she's angry that you were taken advantage of. 30K is not a very small sum.

Sit down and have a talk. When she brings up your past, tell her firmly that was the past, and that it's unfair if she brings up the unglam past while you accept hers. Everyone has their own mistakes, it's just how we grow from it.

Furthermore, you're now married. Instead of looking back, shouldn't a marriage be a new chapter? And shouldn't both of you be looking towards a future together instead of harping over the past? If keep harping over the past, every country would still be at war with each other. We will never grow.

 

[lonely_desire78]

I'm writing in general. All females are the same, even though they (we) would never admit it and think that we're all different from the next girl. Problem with females: they set a benchmark on how you treat her in different stages.

Dating period: First 3 months (or however long your honeymoon period lasts) is how a female would judge you. After the initial stage, you slip, even if for a little bit, you'll expect to hear "Last time you not like that one!" or "You used to treat me so much better" or somewhere along those lines.

Throughout the courtship and dating, some females tend to give in to the relationship. But how would you expect her to be understanding if you're spoiling her? A person will never treasure the other person until he/she's gone. You have given her the upper hand by treating her very nicely. She already has this mentality that you would NEVER leave her.

When she say want to end then end, that's really anger. I believe she's just frustrated over the stuff that you guys are quarreling over. We would never understand how the other party feel. Cause no two people are alike. To her, maybe 30K could have gotten you guys a very romantic travel, or just maybe, she's angry that you were taken advantage of. 30K is not a very small sum.

Sit down and have a talk. When she brings up your past, tell her firmly that was the past, and that it's unfair if she brings up the unglam past while you accept hers. Everyone has their own mistakes, it's just how we grow from it.

Furthermore, you're now married. Instead of looking back, shouldn't a marriage be a new chapter? And shouldn't both of you be looking towards a future together instead of harping over the past? If keep harping over the past, every country would still be at war with each other. We will never grow.

Well said. I quite agree with the thing you mentioned about giving in. Irony is that being fair to one's other half is sometimes to be unfair to oneself.

Its not just giving in. Most important is to be yourself and never wear a mask. If one is never a giver, then its not tenable to keep giving. One's real character will surface over time. It always make sense, then to just simply not act and speak one's mind. Wouldn't it be simpler? Compared to having to explain the previously set precedents, when new quarrels arise.

The interesting thing I realise here is that many girls seem prone to digging history. Mistakes and shortcomings are fine, if we all try to move towards improvements. Expect less, so less disappointments too. Its also important not to have too many unspelt expectations, especially those which one thinks is "common sense". You are right. Not all are born the same, so all the more we should not assume the other party to know exactly what is the expected of them.

 

[hammerheadshark]

I'm writing in general. All females are the same, even though they (we) would never admit it and think that we're all different from the next girl. Problem with females: they set a benchmark on how you treat her in different stages.

Dating period: First 3 months (or however long your honeymoon period lasts) is how a female would judge you. After the initial stage, you slip, even if for a little bit, you'll expect to hear "Last time you not like that one!" or "You used to treat me so much better" or somewhere along those lines.

Throughout the courtship and dating, some females tend to give in to the relationship. But how would you expect her to be understanding if you're spoiling her? A person will never treasure the other person until he/she's gone. You have given her the upper hand by treating her very nicely. She already has this mentality that you would NEVER leave her.

Actually we had our arguments before. It always stems from the usual things: looking through my phone (when I was just chatting with my male colleague on whatsapp over small laughable matters), going through my stuff and so on. It is always the same thing "If you have nothing to hide, why can't you show me?"

Ironically, I had always respected her privacy and even if she receives a message on her phone, I would seek her permission to either open it and read it for her, or I would just tell her she's got a message on her phone.

Well, I do not have any intention of leaving her at all. Much less straying. I deeply respect equality in relationships and that 'gaining upper hand in relationships' had never crossed my mind. Of course, this might work with one that is a deep believer of equality as well but up against anyone with a narrower mind, it turns straight into abuse as one party seeks to withhold more and the other party appears to give more.

When she say want to end then end, that's really anger. I believe she's just frustrated over the stuff that you guys are quarreling over. We would never understand how the other party feel. Cause no two people are alike. To her, maybe 30K could have gotten you guys a very romantic travel, or just maybe, she's angry that you were taken advantage of. 30K is not a very small sum.

Flat's coming and I know she has plans for this 30K on renovation, kids, etc. However, my family member had already taken constructive steps in repayment of the debt. Short of heading out to be a prostitute to be able to return the sum to me in a very short time, one must be reasonable in allowing a proper timeframe for return of such a huge amount.

The last I heard, the cardinal sin for forcing a family member into prostitution is the 18th Level of Hell.

Most here are working professionals and would know how bad the hiring market is right now. So I shan't elaborate more.

Sit down and have a talk. When she brings up your past, tell her firmly that was the past, and that it's unfair if she brings up the unglam past while you accept hers. Everyone has their own mistakes, it's just how we grow from it.

Furthermore, you're now married. Instead of looking back, shouldn't a marriage be a new chapter? And shouldn't both of you be looking towards a future together instead of harping over the past? If keep harping over the past, every country would still be at war with each other. We will never grow.

That's true. I am not exactly sure what is still holding her back to the past when I wanted to pull her along to face the new challenges ahead in life: Flat, Kids, Raising Them and Retirement. I'd really want both of us to face these 4 things together, but whenever she never fails to pick up the past just to argue with me, my entire family's dragged down along with a rain of insults and how she doesn't want 'my screwed up genes to propagate her kids'.

To be honest, I hate looking back. There are nice memories from the past - with work, friends, family and childhood. I'd like to look back on those. The mistakes we make, its lessons learnt, move on and don't repeat them.

Unfortunately, I am not sure what is really wrong with her to keep digging painful memories just to keep reminding me and my explanation and nice talking to her would turn into a return barrage of fire from her.

Given my extremely bad temper in the past (but she doesn't have the honour of really seeing me explode since the last explosion was in 1995. Over 10 years of peace), it sometimes takes a lot of restrain on my part to stop myself from giving her a slap for her rain of insults but my rational mind tells me that the day I raise my hand to her, is the day I end it all.

Alternatively, it would be the day when I pass on. Given the stress on me, I'm not sure how long I will last.

 

[hitori]

Hey bro.. Pls calm down, one thing good is that you are very clear and focus on your destiny. I always believe in one thing, it the Decision that make a marriage works. The bright side is 50% (from you) of the problem is solved, just have to work on the other half.

I was just talking to my Frd yesterday, no temper guy who got married and had kid recently, complaining about his marital bliss. The number of times His wife made him angry in a yr far exceeds the times he was angry in his lifetime if over 30 years before he met her. But like u, he chose to face it and make it work. Interestingly, his wife said during one of his discussions, "just because I have a bad temper doesn't mean u can be angry or dun touch/love me".

Woman need to be loved, under any situations, whereas man need to be understood. I know it is easier said than done but if we try to work based on this fundamentals, things may n usually work out fine. My friend chose to ignore her when she being unreasonable and got used to it.

Just a suggestion, perhaps you may WANa do the same? Make your stand when she being unreasonable. I think most women will not like guys to Give in all the time , doesn't earn their respect. The challenging task is to make your stand and be firm when she being unreasonable sometimes, and tell her that "you are not being reasonable or respectful, I am going to ignore you".

And if she is so particular w d $30k loan, if u find a way to get $30k ( borrow from fiends or what) and lie (white) that it has been repaid, will she give u peace? High chance she will find other faults with u. I feel that you need to make
Your stand sooner at the appropriate time. If not things will. Remain the same.

 

[life_is]

Isn't this what I'm trying to tell you.... the selection process is the main and perhaps only flaw. Yes, you can try and try. When common sense isn't common. Basic muture respect is not even possible, then you must realize compatibility isn't there. She needs someone without a history and willing to be controlled by her. Lots of women are like this and would go to great extend to justify their need to as a 'right'. When you play piano to a cow, the cow will not appreciate.

Trouble always seems to happen when women die die want to take charge. Seen it happen one too many times. Then men get the blame when things don't work out.

 

[hammerheadshark]

Trouble always seems to happen when women die die want to take charge. Seen it happen one too many times. Then men get the blame when things don't work out.

Personally, I don't mind a woman take charge (hey! I have female superiors at work too). But I hate it when they want to take charge, do not know how things works, end up screwing up everything and I have to do damage control / redo everything.

Thanks hitori, I'd always tried to keep things up and seriously, I am not really sure how things will work out when she sometimes receives feedback from people who seemed to want to watch her marriage suffer, crash and burn by feeding her things like, "Men are like that... My ex-husband was.... Men like to.... In order to control your husband you must...."

I get extremely pissed when I happen to hear things like these. Unfortunately, always being the "good friend" she is to many people, she doesn't really seem to realize that the toxicity surrounding our relationship comes from some of the most negative and pessimistic views of people she calls 'friends'. And she doesn't like it when I criticize her 'friends' and it will end up in a mini Cold War, so I'd decided to just stop criticizing and let my actions prove everything. If 1 year doesn't do the work, I'll take 2, 3, 5, 10 or 20 years. But at the end, I am just hoping that she would no longer be in doubt of me when I am breathing my last. I'd seen some friends and colleagues pass away so suddenly these days of unexplained illnesses and sudden cardiac arrests (yes, the one that people run halfway then collapse and die) that I am not sure when will it be me when Death claims me unexpectedly.

Just can't understand why do human beings need to see their loved ones pass on before they come to the realization of how things are? Haven't we all encountered enough deaths in our personal lives to realize this?

 

[life_is]

Thanks hitori, I'd always tried to keep things up and seriously, I am not really sure how things will work out when she sometimes receives feedback from people who seemed to want to watch her marriage suffer, crash and burn by feeding her things like, "Men are like that... My ex-husband was.... Men like to.... In order to control your husband you must...."

The control part sounds like something my MIL will say. The rest probably come from her female friends who aren't even married. And I wonder why.

 

[miloice]

The thing about managing expectations, both need to work together. Generally, women can be spoilt easily, and really easy to blame them for it. Agree with xueyu on this part. If we understand basic human psychology and gender traits, just like how we know we can spoil our kids by giving in too much, men can learn to reflect on it. Yes, they are not kids, likewise, adult men have kid-like traits. Especially seeing how many behave behind the wheel and we are sick, we needed to be pampered like a kid and have their egos stroked.

We need to take our part of the responsibility of spoiling our partners. Its contributing to growing and encouraging the princess in women. There are time for pampering and time to stop it as well. Very much the same with people with abusive spouses, they silent sufferings and enduring with hope that they will change only grows that abusive violent monster within. It takes 2 to tango, both party have a part to play in it.

 

[tomasulu]

From the dramatic way you described the last farewell with your eh female companions. To how you unloaded your past on her without being asked. I get the sense you're self centered and have a false sense of gallantry maybe. I also don't believe she hid her true personality so well that you're bamboozled. You just chose to see what you wanted to see.

I suggest you go talk to someone who knows both of you well to get a better perspective.

 

[hitori]

No matter how true her friends opinions are negative or detrimental, the sad fact is that they are coming from the women who "presumably" understand her emotions. With you critizing her is tricky business. Like my ex partner, when I tell her how she is wrong sometimes with her thoughts or feelings, she feel Offended, bcoz she felt that she is not being respected to have her own feelings and actions validated. N why am I "controlling" her to feel The way I think she should feel, n why am I right?

Unfortunately, I do not have the solution for you because she chose to leave me to have her own space n self respect. My only suggestion is to do wat army teaches us , "dun talk just do, do Liao then talk". Hopefully your actions over time can make her see some sense.

Maybe you can share this quote with her, I juz saw today

"we fall in love by chance, stay in love by choice"

I find that very true. All the best my friend!!!

 

[lonely_desire78]

No matter how true her friends opinions are negative or detrimental, the sad fact is that they are coming from the women who "presumably" understand her emotions. With you critizing her is tricky business. Like my ex partner, when I tell her how she is wrong sometimes with her thoughts or feelings, she feel Offended, bcoz she felt that she is not being respected to have her own feelings and actions validated. N why am I "controlling" her to feel The way I think she should feel, n why am I right?

Unfortunately, I do not have the solution for you because she chose to leave me to have her own space n self respect. My only suggestion is to do wat army teaches us , "dun talk just do, do Liao then talk". Hopefully your actions over time can make her see some sense.

Maybe you can share this quote with her, I juz saw today

"we fall in love by chance, stay in love by choice"

I find that very true. All the best my friend!!!

Now, when I read your reply, this sounds exactly like what I went through. Also to add, there is nothing anyone can do to influence what the girl thinks and how her friends' views affect the relationship.

Honestly, even if not criticising, it can misconstrued as criticising anyway (especially from an upset/ angry girl's point of view).

Just to share another view about girls. Some (or may be many) just want to hear what they want to hear. So, any other unwanted answers are politically wrong, however factually right they are.

 

[hitori]

Just to share another view about girls. Some (or may be many) just want to hear what they want to hear. So, any other unwanted answers are politically wrong, however factually right they are.[/quote]

I believe the above statement applies to most of us as well.. Haha..

I think we men are factual people whereas women are emotional beings. From their perspective, if u love me or treasure me, u will give in to me, even when I wrong. No thanks to all those boring romance dramas and movies that portray idealistic relationships. But having said that, I think it still very true n real. Think of it this way bro, if she is more important to u, whose feeling should u put more weight on? From her perspective, she may know she wrong, but then to have you fight her to prove ur right, are u caring more for her or your feelings?

This is easier said than done. I was not able to do so and I failed to keep mine. Now u still have the chances, dun make the same mistake as me and used up all chances unless u are prepared to walk away from it.

 

[lonely_desire78]

Just to share another view about girls. Some (or may be many) just want to hear what they want to hear. So, any other unwanted answers are politically wrong, however factually right they are.

I believe the above statement applies to most of us as well.. Haha..

I think we men are factual people whereas women are emotional beings. From their perspective, if u love me or treasure me, u will give in to me, even when I wrong. No thanks to all those boring romance dramas and movies that portray idealistic relationships. But having said that, I think it still very true n real. Think of it this way bro, if she is more important to u, whose feeling should u put more weight on? From her perspective, she may know she wrong, but then to have you fight her to prove ur right, are u caring more for her or your feelings?

This is easier said than done. I was not able to do so and I failed to keep mine. Now u still have the chances, dun make the same mistake as me and used up all chances unless u are prepared to walk away from it.[/quote]

You are right. hahaha. Its also not just want to hear what they want to hear, but also not just a "yes! I agree wholeheartedly", "ya lor" or vigorous head nodding in concurrence. It seems like girls need assurance through more expressive responses.

What to do. Man is engineered differently. If something isn't a problem or no answer required, the man stops there and then. While for the girl, if something is perceived to be a problem (however minute it is), it becomes a mighty big problem.

Actually, from another angle, if the girl really values the relationship, she would take a step back too. For that matter, if both value the relationship, both would take a step back. Relationship is like a rubber band. When one pulls, the other responds. If both pulls too hard, the rubber band breaks.

The romance dramas and movies have (without much doubt) "spoilt" the market or raised the bar. That's where one writer wrote that there are those men who bear that instinct to provide for the female and care for the family. This worked in the "cave living era". Unfortunately, the same writer concluded that this is redundant as the needs of modern females are not quite the same as before, which also explains why many guys get "left on the shelf".

Bro, you also have chance. Just don't give up. What matters is you are willing to try. A weary heart still can be a brave one. It may take one blow to bring a man down to his knees, yet all it takes is a mind that has given up to lose the war. V day is coming. There is surely someone out there.

 

[hitori]

Thanks lonely desire 78 for the encouragement. It been 3yrs if on n off, worse still a child is involved in the picture. I think I have learnt to accept this fact/emotion as part of my life to move on, like a scar that has healed, numb but it present.

I agree with what you said if she value, she would give in. But then again in a relationship, who the judge to say who should or when one has to give more? It is never equal contribution. I envy and admire couples who can stay together blissfully for long time. I think they master the art of compromise. Simple word but how many truly understand and practice is another story... I admit I have a long way to learn its true meaning

 

[lonely_desire78]

Thanks lonely desire 78 for the encouragement. It been 3yrs if on n off, worse still a child is involved in the picture. I think I have learnt to accept this fact/emotion as part of my life to move on, like a scar that has healed, numb but it present.

I agree with what you said if she value, she would give in. But then again in a relationship, who the judge to say who should or when one has to give more? It is never equal contribution. I envy and admire couples who can stay together blissfully for long time. I think they master the art of compromise. Simple word but how many truly understand and practice is another story... I admit I have a long way to learn its true meaning

Child really complicates the equation.

Perhaps, this is true. To be able to tahan long, both parties must close one eye or both eyes altogether.

I also envy the folks who would age together. Never quite easy. Relationship is like a narrow path up a mountain. Any wrong step may lead to a permanent end.

All the best. May we all be able to be with (not just find) someone whom our hearts truly long for.

 

[icecoolmilo]

Been a while since I posted anything here but saw this topic and thought of my own marriage.

On the first day of dating my then-bf also confessed about his past and I think it was worse than what u confessed, hammer. He even told me he's not rich and has nothing. But I knew he's true and down to earth.

Fast forward to 1.5 years later we got married and life was sweet. I would never dig out those skeletons even if we disagreed on anything. I would only joke about them and we both laugh over it. Likewise he doesn't dig mine. I wasn't any perfect angel either so I can't judge my own partner. He used to tell me he's not perfect so who is he to judge me. So two very imperfect humans got married till today.

Most importantly is I never doubted him. I knew he's faithful and all and never question him over smses etc. even if I ask, it's because I m Kay poh to know what's new n not because I m suspicious.

So I would say if a woman is insecure she will always be. A very good friend of mine has been married for ten years and his wife still suspects him! He's so down to earth and simple and would never ever cheat, his wife is still checking his phone after ten years of marriage. So this kind of thing can't be helped. It will stay in that woman always. Unless she's with u 24/7 which is impossible.

I hope your situation gets better, hammer. U can only reassure n reassure but it will come to a stage where it's so tiring. I would say don't always give in. I am a woman but I agree that men shouldn't give in always. My hubby always say, wife can dote, cannot spoil. It's very true. good luck buddy!

 

[life_is]

Been a while since I posted anything here but saw this topic and thought of my own marriage.

On the first day of dating my then-bf also confessed about his past and I think it was worse than what u confessed, hammer. He even told me he's not rich and has nothing. But I knew he's true and down to earth.

Fast forward to 1.5 years later we got married and life was sweet. I would never dig out those skeletons even if we disagreed on anything. I would only joke about them and we both laugh over it. Likewise he doesn't dig mine. I wasn't any perfect angel either so I can't judge my own partner. He used to tell me he's not perfect so who is he to judge me. So two very imperfect humans got married till today.

Most importantly is I never doubted him. I knew he's faithful and all and never question him over smses etc. even if I ask, it's because I m Kay poh to know what's new n not because I m suspicious.

So I would say if a woman is insecure she will always be. A very good friend of mine has been married for ten years and his wife still suspects him! He's so down to earth and simple and would never ever cheat, his wife is still checking his phone after ten years of marriage. So this kind of thing can't be helped. It will stay in that woman always. Unless she's with u 24/7 which is impossible.

I hope your situation gets better, hammer. U can only reassure n reassure but it will come to a stage where it's so tiring. I would say don't always give in. I am a woman but I agree that men shouldn't give in always. My hubby always say, wife can dote, cannot spoil. It's very true. good luck buddy!

How true. I spoilt my wife, and now she thinks she can get away with anything.

 

[miloice]

You are right. hahaha. Its also not just want to hear what they want to hear, but also not just a "yes! I agree wholeheartedly", "ya lor" or vigorous head nodding in concurrence. It seems like girls need assurance through more expressive responses.

What to do. Man is engineered differently. If something isn't a problem or no answer required, the man stops there and then. While for the girl, if something is perceived to be a problem (however minute it is), it becomes a mighty big problem.

very true indeed.
Simple example here... women love to shop but they like it even more when their partners are involved in it.

- when she find something she really likes, she wants you to bring up why it is so nice to justify it is a good investment.
- even when you thinks its really so-so, don't emphasize why it sucks.
They are not really into your opinions and blunt truth on how wasteful shopping is and how similar it is and doesn't matter with her many other dresses.

Just as how men enjoy our beer over a football match. We are really very different. When women are overwhelmed with emotions, be it positive or negative ones, don't give her solutions, it is not the right time to do the reality check by pointing out all the factual stuffs. Make her feel better over simple validation of their feelings. After they feel better, then, they will be more receptive to our opinions. If you just dish out your solutions, no woman will appreciate it, to them, you are just an insensitive prick.

 

[EzRaynE]

I didn't want to post any reply on this but I think I should as I have attributes similar to your wife, maybe worse. I'll be honest and direct, sorry if I offend anyone.

I am highly insecure, very jealous (sometimes to the point of being obsessed), pessimistic & stubborn. I have a very bad temper (this is most probably genes related, most of my family members are), difficulty trusting anyone (due to past related stuff).

When I met my then bf, of course none of this showed at the initial stage. Until few months, when he reminisced about his ex (who dumped him for another guy) on her supposedly birthday, all hell broke loose. We quarrelled, I cried, almost broke up but somehow didn't. From then on, whatever arguments we had, I'll just keep bringing back that topic, on how perhaps he prefer her than me etc. I was super insecure and kept thinking that he may leave me for someone else especially since at that point of time, there's many things I can't give him eg. I can't stay out late (strict parents), I can't give him sex (no sex before marriage) etc. So I keep comparing myself to his past girls. I don't want to upset him so I didn't tell him and keep bottling it up. The only time all these thoughts will ever get out of my mouth is when we argue. I would lump every single little thing together just to make it his fault. It didn't help when his working environment are full with women.

He did what you did. He came clean with everything, never fail to report strength. Only difference is that he let me have his phone. I can browse his phone whenever I feel like. There's no such thing as privacy. I even know all his passwords. Despite all that, I still doubt him. I still have nightmares about him cheating on me. I still flared up when he doesn't answer his calls. We almost broke up several times, usually I'm the one who initiated it out of anger.

And then it came to the point when he was almost offered a promotion at work. Being in the sales line, he needs to travel oversea but he made a promise that he will only travel twice per year max. I didn't like it but I somehow managed to compromised. His superior then planned to offer him a regional role which requires him to travel often. We quarrelled, I ask him to choose and he chose his career and we broke up. I went to depression and almost committed suicide. Eventually, we talked it out and he chose us. That was the day I woke up.

At this point of time (since I don't know what the future holds), I can say that he is a good man. No matter how insecure I am, deep down inside I know that fact (having met a lot jerks before). It took having him to give up his ambition for us for me to admit that fact. And I realised that if I want him to stay, I have to do something about myself. The change I went through is not immediate. It took years for me to make myself a better person. He said I changed quite a lot. I'm not getting nightmares anymore. He's still reporting strength and I believe his words for it (though sometimes I still don't but I don't flare up that easily anymore). When I'm upset, I don't reject his calls anymore. We still quarrel but it's not as ugly as before. We both learned not to take each other's angry words to heart. 7 years now, getting married end of this year and we're still striving to be better people.

Sorry for such a long post. I just hope to provide you with some insights of the mind of such women as I am one of them. Perhaps you can learn something from what I went through or perhaps your wife might have thoughts similar to mine which she doesn't tell you. Be transparent with her. If it makes her happy to have your phone, give it to her. You have nothing to hide isn't it? I understand you value privacy, but what good does it do if it's the barrier between you and her trust?

The 30k issue, nothing much you can do about it now. The way I see it, you should have discussed with her before lending the money even though it's yours. All you can do now if she brought it up is apologize for your mistake and keep assuring her that you can earn it back even if your relatives can't pay you back. Maybe it's not your mistake, but you can't fight fire with fire. The insecure kind needs a lot of assurance. It's really tiring and I know it can be unfair but if you still want her, why not give it a shot?

One difference I have with your wife is that I don't confide in others. Mostly because of my trust issues but to be honest, there's not many people we can actually confide in who can give us good advices. It's best to let your wife see that her friends aren't helping. Talk to her with facts. If she tries to avoid or run from the issue, chase after her. The longer these issues drag on, the harder to solve it.

 

[lonely_desire78]

I didn't want to post any reply on this but I think I should as I have attributes similar to your wife, maybe worse. I'll be honest and direct, sorry if I offend anyone.

I am highly insecure, very jealous (sometimes to the point of being obsessed), pessimistic & stubborn. I have a very bad temper (this is most probably genes related, most of my family members are), difficulty trusting anyone (due to past related stuff).

When I met my then bf, of course none of this showed at the initial stage. Until few months, when he reminisced about his ex (who dumped him for another guy) on her supposedly birthday, all hell broke loose. We quarrelled, I cried, almost broke up but somehow didn't. From then on, whatever arguments we had, I'll just keep bringing back that topic, on how perhaps he prefer her than me etc. I was super insecure and kept thinking that he may leave me for someone else especially since at that point of time, there's many things I can't give him eg. I can't stay out late (strict parents), I can't give him sex (no sex before marriage) etc. So I keep comparing myself to his past girls. I don't want to upset him so I didn't tell him and keep bottling it up. The only time all these thoughts will ever get out of my mouth is when we argue. I would lump every single little thing together just to make it his fault. It didn't help when his working environment are full with women.

He did what you did. He came clean with everything, never fail to report strength. Only difference is that he let me have his phone. I can browse his phone whenever I feel like. There's no such thing as privacy. I even know all his passwords. Despite all that, I still doubt him. I still have nightmares about him cheating on me. I still flared up when he doesn't answer his calls. We almost broke up several times, usually I'm the one who initiated it out of anger.

And then it came to the point when he was almost offered a promotion at work. Being in the sales line, he needs to travel oversea but he made a promise that he will only travel twice per year max. I didn't like it but I somehow managed to compromised. His superior then planned to offer him a regional role which requires him to travel often. We quarrelled, I ask him to choose and he chose his career and we broke up. I went to depression and almost committed suicide. Eventually, we talked it out and he chose us. That was the day I woke up.

At this point of time (since I don't know what the future holds), I can say that he is a good man. No matter how insecure I am, deep down inside I know that fact (having met a lot jerks before). It took having him to give up his ambition for us for me to admit that fact. And I realised that if I want him to stay, I have to do something about myself. The change I went through is not immediate. It took years for me to make myself a better person. He said I changed quite a lot. I'm not getting nightmares anymore. He's still reporting strength and I believe his words for it (though sometimes I still don't but I don't flare up that easily anymore). When I'm upset, I don't reject his calls anymore. We still quarrel but it's not as ugly as before. We both learned not to take each other's angry words to heart. 7 years now, getting married end of this year and we're still striving to be better people.

Sorry for such a long post. I just hope to provide you with some insights of the mind of such women as I am one of them. Perhaps you can learn something from what I went through or perhaps your wife might have thoughts similar to mine which she doesn't tell you. Be transparent with her. If it makes her happy to have your phone, give it to her. You have nothing to hide isn't it? I understand you value privacy, but what good does it do if it's the barrier between you and her trust?

The 30k issue, nothing much you can do about it now. The way I see it, you should have discussed with her before lending the money even though it's yours. All you can do now if she brought it up is apologize for your mistake and keep assuring her that you can earn it back even if your relatives can't pay you back. Maybe it's not your mistake, but you can't fight fire with fire. The insecure kind needs a lot of assurance. It's really tiring and I know it can be unfair but if you still want her, why not give it a shot?

One difference I have with your wife is that I don't confide in others. Mostly because of my trust issues but to be honest, there's not many people we can actually confide in who can give us good advices. It's best to let your wife see that her friends aren't helping. Talk to her with facts. If she tries to avoid or run from the issue, chase after her. The longer these issues drag on, the harder to solve it.

Just some thoughts about your reply.
1. Everyone will have some emotional luggage at some point in time. Its to manage these and not let it be an obstacle ahead. Your other half is like you and any other person. Fact is, you can't change a person and (much less) his past. If you look from another angle, he must be so comfortable with you that he can share with you his thoughts. That's better than him keeping it in his mind and you have no idea what he is thinking about. In other words, would you prefer him to wear a mask or to be forthcoming? My personal view is, if he is to pretend and wear a mask, what makes him different from any other guys (or dates)? When two persons are married, why should there be any emotional and mental borders? Just my view.

2. Many men (not all for sure) have higher aspirations to achieve and work for better pay and promotion. This is quite the case in Singapore. At least, his time away is spent for a good reason. Better future, pay and career. No girl would like to be away from their guy for long. Think about it from another perspective. Love is about giving. If it means he has the chance to pursue what he longs for, why not?

3. I suppose its normal for girls to "audit" their other half's hand phone and even face book. Remember also.... any normal guy (experienced enough) will know what you are trying to do. Just like a guy looking at your phone and reviewing the contents. While you would want to do this, would you be comfortable enough for your other half to do the same to you? It also implies poor level of trust and confidence. The underlying reason is definitely not healthy. However, if its for fun sake like "what your friend doing?" or etc, why not? So long its not due to lack of trust.

4. One of those things I disagree (not with anyone in particular) is the (possibly) common habit of some people to confide in friends who say what they want to hear. Popular friends are everywhere. But, where life issues (especially marriage) are concerned, doesn't it make sense to consult someone more experienced and mature? Good advice isn't easy to find, but also it is not easy to adhere to (as well).

Worse is going to consult those friends who add flame and oil. But, reality is.... people make their own choices. I also believe that there can many things being said to one, but its a matter of personal choice as to whether he/ she accepts these and allows these to influence his or her decisions. End of the day, we have to be fair. Whatever decisions made should be our own, rather than the result of what others want us to do. Life is already short. Why live life based on others opinions?

Knowing also that we don't live forever and that nothing else really matters, when we lie on our death beds one day. What is really worth it and important? Its none of those opinions from whoever and so on. It has nothing to do with what we have achieved. What that remains is the truly important to us.... Personally, its just the friends and family who matter. We will not hug some uncle or auntie's opinions to death bed and neither would we think of the millions of SGD in our POSB account.

Many a time, we all know what is good for us, but whether to accept the right is often the most difficult to do.

Just my similarly long piece.

 

[EzRaynE]

Just some thoughts about your reply.
1. Everyone will have some emotional luggage at some point in time. Its to manage these and not let it be an obstacle ahead. Your other half is like you and any other person. Fact is, you can't change a person and (much less) his past. If you look from another angle, he must be so comfortable with you that he can share with you his thoughts. That's better than him keeping it in his mind and you have no idea what he is thinking about. In other words, would you prefer him to wear a mask or to be forthcoming? My personal view is, if he is to pretend and wear a mask, what makes him different from any other guys (or dates)? When two persons are married, why should there be any emotional and mental borders? Just my view.

2. Many men (not all for sure) have higher aspirations to achieve and work for better pay and promotion. This is quite the case in Singapore. At least, his time away is spent for a good reason. Better future, pay and career. No girl would like to be away from their guy for long. Think about it from another perspective. Love is about giving. If it means he has the chance to pursue what he longs for, why not?

3. I suppose its normal for girls to "audit" their other half's hand phone and even face book. Remember also.... any normal guy (experienced enough) will know what you are trying to do. Just like a guy looking at your phone and reviewing the contents. While you would want to do this, would you be comfortable enough for your other half to do the same to you? It also implies poor level of trust and confidence. The underlying reason is definitely not healthy. However, if its for fun sake like "what your friend doing?" or etc, why not? So long its not due to lack of trust.

4. One of those things I disagree (not with anyone in particular) is the (possibly) common habit of some people to confide in friends who say what they want to hear. Popular friends are everywhere. But, where life issues (especially marriage) are concerned, doesn't it make sense to consult someone more experienced and mature? Good advice isn't easy to find, but also it is not easy to adhere to (as well).

Worse is going to consult those friends who add flame and oil. But, reality is.... people make their own choices. I also believe that there can many things being said to one, but its a matter of personal choice as to whether he/ she accepts these and allows these to influence his or her decisions. End of the day, we have to be fair. Whatever decisions made should be our own, rather than the result of what others want us to do. Life is already short. Why live life based on others opinions?

Knowing also that we don't live forever and that nothing else really matters, when we lie on our death beds one day. What is really worth it and important? Its none of those opinions from whoever and so on. It has nothing to do with what we have achieved. What that remains is the truly important to us.... Personally, its just the friends and family who matter. We will not hug some uncle or auntie's opinions to death bed and neither would we think of the millions of SGD in our POSB account.

Many a time, we all know what is good for us, but whether to accept the right is often the most difficult to do.

Just my similarly long piece.

1. I agree with you on this. We should be our real self and not put on an act. Whether our partner can accept it or not, will determine whether we should stay with him/her. If one couldn't accept, doesn't mean another wouldn't. Another way of saying it is; we should be able to fart in front of each other.

2. Everyone works for better pay and promotion but do not forget that it also comes with higher responsibility and perhaps working late. Yes, most men want to provide the best for their woman, but is "best" really necessary, is it a need? Maybe some (if not most) women love branded, expensive gifts but there are some who just want a humble lifestyle with their man coming home early or on time and spend the rest of the day with her & children. Needs and wants need to be lay out clearly. Couples have to discuss what they want in life.

3. For me, I have no problem with him doing the same. It's only fair since I'm doing that. There's no such thing as privacy between me and him. Actually, why should there be? Why would a couple wants to keep things from each other? I feel that's unhealthy. If you listen to Kiss 92 last year on the couple competition, even the counsellor mentioned healthy couples should be able share everything with each other. Ad trust, is not given, it should be build. If by "auditing" can help gain that trust, why not?

4. Again, I fully agree with you on this. Consulting with the wrong people will just makes matters worst. One needs to have a backbone so you can filter the good and bad advices. But

I've been there and done that. Growing up surrounded by judgemental people, can really screw up the mind. I spent years living my life trying to make people happy, meeting expectations but at the end of the day, no matter what I did, it's never enough.

 

[lonely_desire78]

1. I agree with you on this. We should be our real self and not put on an act. Whether our partner can accept it or not, will determine whether we should stay with him/her. If one couldn't accept, doesn't mean another wouldn't. Another way of saying it is; we should be able to fart in front of each other.

2. Everyone works for better pay and promotion but do not forget that it also comes with higher responsibility and perhaps working late. Yes, most men want to provide the best for their woman, but is "best" really necessary, is it a need? Maybe some (if not most) women love branded, expensive gifts but there are some who just want a humble lifestyle with their man coming home early or on time and spend the rest of the day with her & children. Needs and wants need to be lay out clearly. Couples have to discuss what they want in life.

3. For me, I have no problem with him doing the same. It's only fair since I'm doing that. There's no such thing as privacy between me and him. Actually, why should there be? Why would a couple wants to keep things from each other? I feel that's unhealthy. If you listen to Kiss 92 last year on the couple competition, even the counsellor mentioned healthy couples should be able share everything with each other. Ad trust, is not given, it should be build. If by "auditing" can help gain that trust, why not?

4. Again, I fully agree with you on this. Consulting with the wrong people will just makes matters worst. One needs to have a backbone so you can filter the good and bad advices. But

I've been there and done that. Growing up surrounded by judgemental people, can really screw up the mind. I spent years living my life trying to make people happy, meeting expectations but at the end of the day, no matter what I did, it's never enough.

Replies as follows:
2. You are right about whether "best" is necessary. That's where you also correctly pointed that the needs and wants have to be laid out. This also goes back to my point 1. To get things to work, many tend to fail to see the importance of your point 2 that expectations of the needs and wants have to be clarified and agreed upon. I would add, even if not agreed, the other party has to respect that divergence. All these should be done way before marriage. Then again, expectations vary over time. Like you mentioned, its to discuss the goals. And, to add, to discuss these from time to time.

3. If your "auditing" works for you, its good. My point here is, it may not apply to all. Not all men see it in the same light. Of course, many reasons may be underlying that, both good and bad.

4. Good that you understand this. Good lessons are hard learnt. Also, if not for the bad experience of satisfying people, it wouldn't have made you realise that these judgemental people are undesirable. Some falls are necessary. Some falls make you stronger. Overall, your falls made you a better person. Overcoming this also made you clearer of your life's goals.

Its a part of growing up... meeting some wrong people who give all kinds of wrong advice.

 

[miloice]

2 cents on some of the comments
#1. While it is commonly accepted that we should be with someone that accepts who we are and no need to put up an impression, it should never give one the excuse of not wanting to improve or caring about the interests of our partners. We can reflect and learn together in a relationship to be better partners.

#2. Precisely everyone have different needs, men don't work to only support his family. Aspirations is something important for validation and well being of the individual.

#3. Auditing itself doesn't really get trust. What gives you the trust is your partner's understanding and willingness to assure, report and go beyond what is normally acceptable to gain your trust. You are giving too much credit to your act of checking than how much your partner is giving in to your need to check. Assurance needs to be volunteered and not mandated, it works for you because he understands your difficulties and helps you cope with it.

#4, the environment has significant influence on people. The extend to which one is affected by is differs for each individual. Individual personality, confidence, self esteem, values all play a part. The more one shift accountability to the environment, the more they will be swayed by it. However, if someone takes responsibility over their own emotions, they would still be affected by things around them, but they are able to minimize it.

1. I agree with you on this. We should be our real self and not put on an act. Whether our partner can accept it or not, will determine whether we should stay with him/her. If one couldn't accept, doesn't mean another wouldn't. Another way of saying it is; we should be able to fart in front of each other.

2. Everyone works for better pay and promotion but do not forget that it also comes with higher responsibility and perhaps working late. Yes, most men want to provide the best for their woman, but is "best" really necessary, is it a need? Maybe some (if not most) women love branded, expensive gifts but there are some who just want a humble lifestyle with their man coming home early or on time and spend the rest of the day with her & children. Needs and wants need to be lay out clearly. Couples have to discuss what they want in life.

3. For me, I have no problem with him doing the same. It's only fair since I'm doing that. There's no such thing as privacy between me and him. Actually, why should there be? Why would a couple wants to keep things from each other? I feel that's unhealthy. If you listen to Kiss 92 last year on the couple competition, even the counsellor mentioned healthy couples should be able share everything with each other. Ad trust, is not given, it should be build. If by "auditing" can help gain that trust, why not?

4. Again, I fully agree with you on this. Consulting with the wrong people will just makes matters worst. One needs to have a backbone so you can filter the good and bad advices. But

I've been there and done that. Growing up surrounded by judgemental people, can really screw up the mind. I spent years living my life trying to make people happy, meeting expectations but at the end of the day, no matter what I did, it's never enough.

 

[EzRaynE]

Replies as follows:
2. You are right about whether "best" is necessary. That's where you also correctly pointed that the needs and wants have to be laid out. This also goes back to my point 1. To get things to work, many tend to fail to see the importance of your point 2 that expectations of the needs and wants have to be clarified and agreed upon. I would add, even if not agreed, the other party has to respect that divergence. All these should be done way before marriage. Then again, expectations vary over time. Like you mentioned, its to discuss the goals. And, to add, to discuss these from time to time.

3. If your "auditing" works for you, its good. My point here is, it may not apply to all. Not all men see it in the same light. Of course, many reasons may be underlying that, both good and bad.

4. Good that you understand this. Good lessons are hard learnt. Also, if not for the bad experience of satisfying people, it wouldn't have made you realise that these judgemental people are undesirable. Some falls are necessary. Some falls make you stronger. Overall, your falls made you a better person. Overcoming this also made you clearer of your life's goals.

Its a part of growing up... meeting some wrong people who give all kinds of wrong advice.

3. May I ask, why is "auditing" a big issue? If there's nothing to hide, what's there to be afraid about?

2 cents on some of the comments
#1. While it is commonly accepted that we should be with someone that accepts who we are and no need to put up an impression, it should never give one the excuse of not wanting to improve or caring about the interests of our partners. We can reflect and learn together in a relationship to be better partners.

#2. Precisely everyone have different needs, men don't work to only support his family. Aspirations is something important for validation and well being of the individual.

#3. Auditing itself doesn't really get trust. What gives you the trust is your partner's understanding and willingness to assure, report and go beyond what is normally acceptable to gain your trust. You are giving too much credit to your act of checking than how much your partner is giving in to your need to check. Assurance needs to be volunteered and not mandated, it works for you because he understands your difficulties and helps you cope with it.

#4, the environment has significant influence on people. The extend to which one is affected by is differs for each individual. Individual personality, confidence, self esteem, values all play a part. The more one shift accountability to the environment, the more they will be swayed by it. However, if someone takes responsibility over their own emotions, they would still be affected by things around them, but they are able to minimize it.

Somehow I feel that you're reading my messages wrongly or even taking it negatively. Never in any of my messages did I mention about not changing to be better nor giving myself any credit at all. In fact, I did mention "we're still striving to be better people" and also "If by "auditing" can help gain that trust, why not?". I didn't say that it's 100% foolproof plan, there's an IF in front. And if you had read properly, you can see that the credit is all his, you can also see that I'm showing you my ugly side, a side which people often hide.

I'm merely showing TS what may occur in a mind of an insecure woman and giving suggestions which may be able to help his situation since I have that similar trait. I'm not saying he should follow what my fiancé did. I just hope by writing my true story may help TS understand his wife better. But then again, it's normal to be misunderstood when one doesn't go with the flow which makes me wonder, have you dealt with anyone similar to me?

 

[miloice]

Well, not reading wrongly but pointing a different perspective to it.
If you spend time to reread your answers and what I said.... I mentioned NOTHING about full proof plan at all. Those points, I could only agree to some extend and gave my perspective why. No where in my comments did I invalidate completely what you shared. So, let's not over-react. There are more than one view.

I'm not wrong faulting your story at all. In fact, you have a wonderful partner that is so understanding. Hence, I'm pointing out, that is probably the point out why your audit even work. Try that with most other men, they are not keen to understand and comply. It is not a personal attack on you. Try seeing it from that perspective, discussing on the points and not personal criticism. You have that immediate assumption I have no personal idea nor experience with insecure women.

"3. May I ask, why is "auditing" a big issue? If there's nothing to hide, what's there to be afraid about?"
This is exactly how you see it. period
it is not fear... its downright insult to a good and working relationship for the need of all these audits.
If the relationship is full of deception, checking doesn't help improve the trust either.
When is good, both parties having the maturity to exercise understanding and consideration for the partner, these checks are redundant. When done excessively, just reflect how self-centered and justified the person is.

Just as how commonly women likes their partners to understand and anticipate their needs over the smallest details, men, appreciates trust. Do you really understand how hurting and frustrating constant confronting and checking are. While you struggle with your inner demons, realize your partner is holding onto straws, feeling completely disappointed and frustrated on how and what more must he do for you to trust him?

For personal sharing, all of my life, I'm haunted by one insecure woman that I love dearly, all her life auditing, checking, confronting everyone that cared for her. No way that I would marry a woman that is just as untrusting. I will do everything to assure and make the relationship an open one, there is no need to leave things to guesses, spying or checking. My wife is just another women and have her emotions and security needs. It is not hard to understand a woman is a woman, they will need validation and assurance. However, it is always taking 2 to tango, it finally worked for you when you woken up and starting cherishing your partner. That is the crux of why your marriage worked. It is not auditing. Auditing is necessary not for the trust, it is necessary because of the endless irrational need.

 

[miloice]

adding to you question
May I ask, why is "auditing" a big issue? If there's nothing to hide, what's there to be afraid about?"

didn't u read what the TS replied to xueyu? Do you seriously don't know or just choosing to ignore the equally valid emotions of your partner?

Actually we had our arguments before. It always stems from the usual things: looking through my phone (when I was just chatting with my male colleague on whatsapp over small laughable matters), going through my stuff and so on. It is always the same thing "If you have nothing to hide, why can't you show me?"

Ironically, I had always respected her privacy and even if she receives a message on her phone, I would seek her permission to either open it and read it for her, or I would just tell her she's got a message on her phone.​

 

[pinkbunnie]

From what I have read from the first post, you sound ready, and I'm not sure if you and your partner have gone through serious thoughts before entering marriage or its just you alone being serious and all ready for marriage.

She seems pretty childish to me, but I'm a girl myself I know it can't be helped at times when we acted in some ways but when my partner tells me off I'll change uponnreflection .


My only advice for you is if you have already communicate with her yet she NEVER change,think about attending marriage counselling, should help more a less.


Marriage will workout for two people who are really in love and committed to each other. If it's only one sided, it's tough and not worth it.

 

[mirrorcelcius]

Never imagined I will be posting here with such a depressing topic but somehow I feel that the entire marriage is completely one-sided. Since there is a mix of male & female here, it would be of a balanced opinion.

When we first got to know each other and when we were together, I told myself harshly, "Give up your old days of partying. Get yourself checked. Sober up! Because this is the girl for you!"

So with that in mind, I went for multiple blood tests to ensure that I am alright physically and told her everything (absolutely... everything) honestly. While it shocked her that I was not the perfect Saint, I made a solemn commitment to her and to her only. Well, took me a couple of weeks to break off contact completely with a couple of friends and when the other single ladies heard I had a girlfriend, they smiled, wished me all the best (just as I'd wished them), shook hands for a final time turned around and left.

Perhaps baring all my skeletons in my closet had an unintended effect on her or I was too stupid in doing so. Shortly after, during arguments, she happily dredged up my past and heaped loads of shit on me. We had countless arguments over this but I made a very careful note and swore never to raise her skeletons in her closet and acknowledged that my life before me knowing her was indeed pretty screwed.

After several major arguments, makeups and so on. I'd decided to propose. The reasons for my proposal are very clear:
- Absolute Commitment to her and our family
- Trust
- Love

She agreed and we had our marriage.

It was not all smooth sailing during marriage preparation though as I somehow get the feeling that she wasn't really handling many things other than preparation of her guest list and doing pretty stuff like, "Oh I would like to have... etc, etc.". Well, the responsibility's on the guy isn't it? So I dived straight in and spent countless nights preparing stuff, checking programme and so on. I began to empathize with Wedding Planners at that moment in time and suddenly had full admiration and had a newfound respect for their jobs.

All was fine after marriage until recently, she began to get a little quarrelsome AGAIN. When it comes to money matters, she did not hesitate to rain insults on my family member whom I had extended a study loan of over $30K to and rained insults on my family member on not being able to return my money, her inability to find a job, lazing around the house, not doing work, shaking legs and so on.

I had tried to resolve the situation by telling her to... Well, spend some time understanding my family members just as I had spent my time and effort trying to understand hers, spending time with her family and friends, interacting and talking to them, offering to help them unconditionally, etc.

Things come to a head when she finally said that, "If you want to end it all, its up to you. I can't be bothered." This came to me as an utter shock as I had told myself over and over again that I am sticking to my wedding vows till "death do us apart" and the "D" word is the last thing on my mind (not when you are married less than 2 months).

Never did it once crossed my mind that she would say it. Arguments are always constant rehashes of my past mistakes (note: NEVER HERS!) and I am wondering what is happening to me psychologically and mentally. I think I had shed more tears in the past 2 years than I had for the initial 11 years of my life.

Perhaps my ideals of how marriage should be: Both parties on equal ground, giving way, showing respect, humility and support. Seeking opinion with each other, learning from past mistakes, tolerance and looking ahead, are too idealistic that I'd failed to account that humans are humans. But I really can't understand, am I giving too much to her by working so hard on my part as a Husband and trying hard to earn the dough that she is literally taking advantage of my weaknesses for her advantage?

Never imagined I will be posting here with such a depressing topic but somehow I feel that the entire marriage is completely one-sided. Since there is a mix of male & female here, it would be of a balanced opinion.

When we first got to know each other and when we were together, I told myself harshly, "Give up your old days of partying. Get yourself checked. Sober up! Because this is the girl for you!"

So with that in mind, I went for multiple blood tests to ensure that I am alright physically and told her everything (absolutely... everything) honestly. While it shocked her that I was not the perfect Saint, I made a solemn commitment to her and to her only. Well, took me a couple of weeks to break off contact completely with a couple of friends and when the other single ladies heard I had a girlfriend, they smiled, wished me all the best (just as I'd wished them), shook hands for a final time turned around and left.

Perhaps baring all my skeletons in my closet had an unintended effect on her or I was too stupid in doing so. Shortly after, during arguments, she happily dredged up my past and heaped loads of shit on me. We had countless arguments over this but I made a very careful note and swore never to raise her skeletons in her closet and acknowledged that my life before me knowing her was indeed pretty screwed.

After several major arguments, makeups and so on. I'd decided to propose. The reasons for my proposal are very clear:
- Absolute Commitment to her and our family
- Trust
- Love

She agreed and we had our marriage.

It was not all smooth sailing during marriage preparation though as I somehow get the feeling that she wasn't really handling many things other than preparation of her guest list and doing pretty stuff like, "Oh I would like to have... etc, etc.". Well, the responsibility's on the guy isn't it? So I dived straight in and spent countless nights preparing stuff, checking programme and so on. I began to empathize with Wedding Planners at that moment in time and suddenly had full admiration and had a newfound respect for their jobs.

All was fine after marriage until recently, she began to get a little quarrelsome AGAIN. When it comes to money matters, she did not hesitate to rain insults on my family member whom I had extended a study loan of over $30K to and rained insults on my family member on not being able to return my money, her inability to find a job, lazing around the house, not doing work, shaking legs and so on.

I had tried to resolve the situation by telling her to... Well, spend some time understanding my family members just as I had spent my time and effort trying to understand hers, spending time with her family and friends, interacting and talking to them, offering to help them unconditionally, etc.

Things come to a head when she finally said that, "If you want to end it all, its up to you. I can't be bothered." This came to me as an utter shock as I had told myself over and over again that I am sticking to my wedding vows till "death do us apart" and the "D" word is the last thing on my mind (not when you are married less than 2 months).

Never did it once crossed my mind that she would say it. Arguments are always constant rehashes of my past mistakes (note: NEVER HERS!) and I am wondering what is happening to me psychologically and mentally. I think I had shed more tears in the past 2 years than I had for the initial 11 years of my life.

Perhaps my ideals of how marriage should be: Both parties on equal ground, giving way, showing respect, humility and support. Seeking opinion with each other, learning from past mistakes, tolerance and looking ahead, are too idealistic that I'd failed to account that humans are humans. But I really can't understand, am I giving too much to her by working so hard on my part as a Husband and trying hard to earn the dough that she is literally taking advantage of my weaknesses for her advantage?

What in the world you tell her everything ? Honesty in relationship is not everything....unless dealing with ultra sensitive women.....

if not just keep ur mouth shut.....it say, talk less is more.....