Marriage and money

livelaughlove

New Member
hello everyone, need some help with an issue.

My bf and I are getting married next yr and have been planning for our wedding. Everything has been really nice and merry, just like how you would expect a couple in love and preparing to spend the rest of their lives together.

My bf is very loving towards me and believes that a man should take up the bulk of expenses for the wedding and I do not need to worry about it.

But being me, somewhat independent and having a mind of my own, I would want to contribute to the wedding.

Here lies the problem, I do not have adequate savings or rather, I barely have any savings. So I am planning to get a personal loan from a bank and play my part in paying for stuff in the wedding.

And, I am planning not to let my bf know about it because I am sure he would ask me not to get the loan and that he can afford everything. But the PRIDE in me is saying that I need to help to pay at least for certain things...

If I go ahead and take the loan and hide it from him, I would have the cash. But if he finds out eventually, he will definitely be very unhappy.

If I just let him pay for everything for the wedding, I would feel very indebted to him... And I would feel useless....

I ever bring it up to him that my efforts will be limited and he always assured me that I can play my part by giving more to our household expenses in the future...

I do not know what to do... I really want to pay for stuff but I know at this current point, my efforts are limited... And if I get a loan, and my bf finds out, he will probably be really angry and disappointed.

How how how??
 


kittenpie

New Member
you are a happy and fortunate woman, and this is a very silly problem to worry about. i hope you realise how silly you are.

dont get a loan. do as he says. you want to contribute, you can always do so in future when you have moeny. there is always a chance to do so in future so why be so concerned now?
 

kenturik

New Member
take up the loan and pay hefty interest on it... surely it gives you your pride and ego and let you feel less useless... Way to go to contribute to the household debts....
 

simpleman

Active Member
Why create trouble for yourself? Pride?

I suggest you open a new account. Put in money every month into it.. this is your wedding fund. Continue to put it in after your marriage. 3 years later, maybe you can take out this fund and show him your share of the wedding expenses. He can treat it as a bonus from you.

Isn't it more wonderful and meaningful than taking a loan and making him angry?
 

thommy

New Member
why take up a loan unnecessarily and be in debt just to feel 'useful'?

if u really wanna contribute something, u have tonnes of chances next time when u are staying together...what's there to worry about???

count ur lucky stars instead of thinking that u have a 'problem' girl. there are other more important things in life to worry about, and this is certainly not one of them.
 

powder

Active Member
taking a loan when u dun need, is like buying a car u dun need but just to prove u can buy a car (abeit with loan).

dun do it... everything has been happy, why do u feel a need to Equalize things with a contribution u can ill-afford? taking a loan for it, is not the way of doing things... u can contribute via other means that gives him a better emotional balance... til such time u have the finances u can always pay for the subsequent honeymoon or chip in for other big ticket items... it's not like he minds, so why u create an unnecessary loan to service?

yup i agree, u're fortunate, just enjoy ya?
 

xylon

New Member
Don't take up the loan.

Instead, save up regularly and ease his burden on something else later e.g. pregnancy / giving birth expenses.
 

ariebeth

New Member
1) Is there a reason you don't have any savings? (eg. still studying, shopoholic, etc)

2) Can your bf actually afford to pay for everything?

You didn't say how old you were or give any other details so I have little to infer to.

All I can say is, you should not be getting married if you are not financially secure.

The wedding is but one day, however everything else that comes after that needs $$$$$.

Honeymoon, house, bills, kids...

Please be financially ready before comtemplating this huge step.

I've been working (and saving) for years and years, and I don't spend much on clothes and things... and now that I'm preparing for my simple wedding (which is already quite prudent, as I'm foregoing a lot of the typical Singaporean things), I've realised that all the tiny little things add up to really big amounts.

Nevetheless, as your bf says, you can contribute in other ways, or contribute more at a later stage when you have more money.

I am glad however, that you are not taking for granted that the guy should pay for everything. I have colleagues like that and it is sickening to hear them talk. Their hb not only paid for everything (wedding, bills, expenses), but also have to give them allowance. WTF.
 

simpleman

Active Member
ab, why stir more shit.

She already said bf can afford.. You don't believe and want to check bank account is it?
 
lll,

Why don't you just let him take up the expenses for now since you do not have enough savings to contribute? You can then save up slowly and secretly. When you have enough money, you can "return" to him.

I tink it really makes no sense landing yourself in debt just to save your pride. You can't save much now, so do you think you will have the spare cash to repay the loan monthly? And dun forget there will be interest.
 

thommy

New Member
AB is right.

since u say u have barely any savings, start saving now every month no matter how big the amount is. U have 1yr to save and u can show ur bf next yr how much u have saved for ur own wedding if u really want to impress him. I'm sure he will be very touched to see this effort coming from u rather than taking a silly loan and getting urself in debt and paying unnecessary interest for nothing.
 

livelaughlove

New Member
hello all again.

Thanks for all your enthusiastic replies..

Appreciate the advice and all, and for being really honest with me.

Well, I can't seem to save enough each month because I am not very prudent with my expenditure. And also I am servicing my uni tuition loan and contributing significantly to my old and widowed mum... Let's just say that my family is lower middle class. We had some hard times and I am trying to make life better for my family.

And yes, i need to do something about the $$ and will do what many have suggested - to put a sum aside every month in another bank a/c. I think that will work better for me.

And AB, I understand and know where you are coming from. And this is a topic I have talked to my bf many times... That I am not financially stable and will not be able to contribute much to wedding, renovation etc. I have told him that I am not ready to marry him unless I feel that I am stable... But he has always been very assuring and kept saying that he is able to cover for both of us and more.

I am truly very lucky but I do not want to take advantage of the situation. I told him I do not need a fancy wedding, honeymoon and I am certainly open to staying at his parents place for a while after our wedding. But being the gentleman he is, he always tells me that he wants the best for me...

I think it is like I feel that he is going out of the way for me, and yet I am not able to contribute monetary wise. Is it very shallow of me to think that way? Do you know what I mean?

In case some are thinking we have an unbalanced relationship, that is not true. Besides him having a fatter a/c balance than me, we are pretty much your average couple in love.

Sigh, I know I must have sounded terribly silly and stupid to many. I'm sorry...

Maybe I should just be the xiao nu ren and bask in the glory of my HTB...
 

ariebeth

New Member
SM: Actually, I didn't read the part where he said he could afford it. Paiseh.

Somehow, TS reminded me a lot of myself when I was younger. My ego/pride didn't take nicely to having someone foot all the bill either. I felt useless and didn't want to be perceived like a money-grabber or a kept woman. I also didn't want to feel like owed him anything, or have him bring up this in quarrels. Looking back, maybe I was on some sort of equality/girl power trip or something. I opened my own doors and I wanted to go dutch on meals/movies/whatever. Thankfully this was years ago and I have matured (I think).
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
What you just said is very contradictory. You mentioned you are not very prudent with your expenditure. Now, what's your plan to clear the loan after your marriage?

You don't need to take advantage of your bf. Realize that no 2 persons have the exact same financial commitments and earning power. NEVER measure your self-worth with money in a relationship. Both of you are in the same boat. So, whatever future financial commitments, think twice how it will shake the boat and share the burden together. It doesn't matter if you don't have huge strength to maneuver the boat. It would not handicap the boat just for you to feel good with him only using a fraction of his effort for you.

Taking on a loan will only add on the burden to your love boat. Do you want to sink it over your perception of pride?
 
lll,

For savings, maybe for a start, you can work out your fixed expenses first and then see how much spare cash you can set aside for savings. You can start up a MSA account with maybe $50 first. After a few months, if you think that you can save more, you can always increase the amount. I started off saving $50 a month and have increased to $200 after abt 6 months. If you have a will, you will be able to achieve.
 

simpleman

Active Member
ab,

ha ha one way to deal with this.. I had a ex-gf like this. Exactly what I taught the TS

Each time I went out with this ex-gf, she will be like wanting to pay. I said... ok. whatever you want to pay me.. when you get home, put inside a box.. she did for a few months.. until she found out it was purely a psychological problem for her.

But it may not be a bad practice after all.. good for savings..
 

simpleman

Active Member
kenturik,

Yes, one day we went to her house.. and she opened the box.. some thousands inside.. and she went on a shopping spree..
 

thiasy

New Member
III: Since you are already servicing your uni loan, not advisable to take up more loans.

Perhaps if you want to help your htb save $$, you can perhaps opt for a simpler wedding. Help your HTB save $$ and save $$ for yourself too.
 

maddiejas

New Member
Hi All,

I have a thought that may seemed almost 'WTF' (as quoted).

But this is the scenario:

my HTB has been the one paying for the utilities and internet, marketing etc. all along. He stays in a HDB with his mum only; dad passed on and siblings are all abroad.

We plan to get married and have MIL stay together with us in another HDB we both will own.

For me, being the spoilt daughter in the family, i only earn my own keeps giving token allowances to both working parents. I do not need to worry about bills & marketing, groceries etc.

Right now, as we are going thru the wedding preparations, we raised certain expectations about after marriage life & living together.

HTB expects me to share the expenses of the household. After all, we come together, decided to form our own family; we ought to be sharing responsibilities.

In my selfish thought, HTB is much older than me albeit we earn almost parity salary. His expectations of sharing the expenses would seemed like his money burden will reduce while mine will increase (all else remaining the same). I offered to pay the difference but he is still unhappy.

I questioned my quality of life after marriage and that i do not feel comfortable staying with MIL. In the first place, I made a very hesitant decision to get married knowing HTB wants to settle down. I very prefer my current way of life now and seems to me there is almost no value add in getting married.

We had a major disagreement on money and this has probably made him doubt whether i really loved him. He thinks my mentality is screwed and he was 'shocked' when i told him how i felt. He gave me the snigger and mentioned, that way, i would have a very 'fat account'. While he will have to pay for everything, i will not need to contribute a single cent.

Does anyone has the same scenario and wishes to share how you all share responsibilities? Is my thinking really fucked up?
 

powder

Active Member
honestly if u're not keen to get married, then u should think twice abt it... as it is, i think u're pretty happy status quo and with life itself, whilst marriage might require u to make some adjustments which u might not want to... it is likely to run into some issues, of cos it can be solved, but if u want thing to stay the way they are then best to work things out before the marriage... else will be very painful
 

kittenpie

New Member
jazzy,

1) I think you are just a normal person. your attitude here is not being more or less selfish than average standards, you are just being practical.

i dont think you should allow yourself to acquiesce to whatever arrangement simply because that would be 'nice' of you, or socially acceptable or politically correct.

i think you should ask yourself what are your rules and values in life. if you value freedom, independence and financial autonomy above romance, then you have to relook the relationship. there is nothing wrong with acknowledging your true values.


2) You are right to be concerned about living with MIL because living with ILs in a small, cramped HDB DOES LOWER quality of life.

it is truly an unattractive prospect that you are facing and i can understand your total lack of enthusiasm for this scenario.

i do believe that it is possible for a woman to stay single permanently (attached or not), continue to stay with her own parents whom she loves, and live life to the fullest.

seems like you could reconsider your marriage.
 

ariebeth

New Member
I don't think it's a matter of selfish or not selfish, and at least you're honest with yourself. If you're incompatible, you're incompatible. You both have very different views and expectations towards money and what a marraige entails, and I think it's good you're finding out these things before you get married.

Both of you seem to be in different stages of life. You are carefree with no financial responsibilities while he has to support his family. He is also older and wants to settle down. Perhaps part of it is also that you do not love him enough to want to sacrifice your way of life for him. Adding to that your potential in-law problems and that you kinda felt pressured to get married.... with so many issues there might be a lot of resentment on both sides if you do end up getting married.
 
of course when he is rich enough he can pay for everything lah.

but for those poor people like me who have not much money, got no choice lo... look like you will be living a good life with a rich husband.
 

maddiejas

New Member
Hi Powder, May & AB, seems like all three of you are asking me to reconsider my marriage.

Thank you once again.

we are already 3/4 into the preparation. Booked the house, paying for the house, paid the package, booked the ballroom. Whenever that thought comes across my mind, I backed out. I dragged and dread.

HTB refused to let go..i feel very sad...and helpless at times. At times when we quarrel, he always asked if i want to look for a rich business man, knowing that i agreed to the proposal because he wanted it.

My heart is telling me to give in, while my 'practical' side says otherwise.

I wonder what happens if he reads this...Sigh.
 

powder

Active Member
sometimes it's better to stay bf/gf unless u intend to start a family... based on what u shared... i think u should have more thoughts on what May has shared...

one of the things that made me end relationships, would be the need to drastically change my lifestyle... including give up my career. it was something i could not do without losing myself and feeling like i have given up on my life in order to enter marriage... i decided to end the relationships... i love those girls, i just dun envision a lifetime with them... i dun wanna find myself ever Hating them after we marry.

this my thoughts... abit busy now, would share more... but yes, do give it serious thoughts. i would rather Not have, and maintain love... than to have, and lose the love.
 

kittenpie

New Member
jazzy,

i am truly sorry to hear about your situation. your sianness is clear.

if you are very brave, you could still break off if that is the solution and treat whatever deposit you paid as a sunk cost for a lesson learnt.

but i guess the average Singaporean simply doesnt do such things.
 

maddiejas

New Member
Jefferson, i think you didn't get my point here.

He is paying for the expenses in his current household even now; i am an addition to the family and i offered to pay the incremental i incur. Despite, he is not happy.

I guess it was wishful thinking on my part to hope he will just provide for me. Instead, he asked me why is it so difficult for me to compromise?

Can i ask you to think again before you speak?
 

ariebeth

New Member
I agree with May. It doesn't matter if you're 3/4 way into the preps. Money that is lost can be earnt back.

If you're so unhappy thinking about marraige and viewing your future responsibilities as burdens, then why are you going ahead with it?

Anyway, please think carefully. Just don't be one of those people who aren't happy and come forum to seek advice and sigh sigh sigh, then don't do anything and just get married because they are so worried about what people will say and the deposits they paid, then after they get married, come back to post on this forum saying they regret.
 

wat_are_dreamz

New Member
Hi Jazzy, do u understand where ur HTB is coming from? I dun know how long u have been with him, but marriage is for a lifetime. I suggest u take a wk's break from each other n seriously think about it. Its better to lose some $ n take it as a learning experience, then to waste ur youth n be trapped in an unhapi marriage.

Ur thinking appears to be too individualistic n simplistic. Nothing wrong if u are single. But if u are planning to spend the rest of ur life w some1, to share ur joys n sorrows n responsibilities, then ur mentality is a problem. It is selfish of a wife to protect her $ w/out helping her husband out. I am sure ur HTB will share the duty of caring for ur parents, thus for u to share the household bills n care for his mum is fair. U offering to pay the increment definitely comes as a rude shock to him, tat u are so calculative n view urself more like a tenant as compared to his partner for a lifetime.

As u said, u are quite spolit at home n u dun contribute $ towards ur parents' household bills. The situation is v different from ur HTB. If u are going to be some1's wife n daughter-in-law, maybe it is high time for u to be more matured, considerate n to shake off ur spolit princessy behaviour? Otherwise, u will face problems w any other average guy on the street. For now, stop the marriage preparations n truly think abt wat u want. U may wish to attend marriage preparation workshops or counselling. Don't take the wrong step of marriage when u are apparently not ready for it.
 

confusenism

New Member
evon thats the exact samething i was thinking of tell jazzy..

marriage is between 2 person that is suppose to last a lifetime. its a better idea if she can start being more matured and grow up.

jazzy ur htb only has 1 mum and her mum is already w/o a hb.. if her son doesnt wants to stay with her she out there all alone. put urself in her bloody shoes and consider stop being so selfish.. there is this chinese phrase called 爱屋åŠå±‹. and also a thing called karma.
 

maddiejas

New Member
Hi Evon, thank you for your awakening call. I know i am stepping into something i am not ready.

I guess to move on, my mentality has got to change. I cannot commit and trying is not good enough.

i am intending to take a break. Thanks all for your advice.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Hi Jazzy, to put it bluntly, your relationship and trust is actually limited. In short, you place your own priorities above his and neither do you see it as a common interests.

Not saying its right or wrong. But, what kind of marriage you guys want and expect? For me, the only marriage I want is with someone I can commit 100% without being exploit. That means, I can pool 100% knowing that my partner will not take advantage of that. If you are with a partner that wants just a marriage and relationship but not commit financially as well, then you are simply not the one for him.

Both wife and myself have reserves and savings of our own. We just don't spend beyond our budget. In any big purchases, we just chip in. Who has more reserves naturally contribute more. There is no argument about fairness. You have to ask yourself, what do you want to achieve in the marriage? Synergy can only occur when resources are pooled. Limits would be stretched. With your idea of self protection, it is always limited.

There is really no right or wrong. Just what kind of marriage you are going thr. With someone you can trust without reserves or someone you need to constantly guard 'just in case'. To me, its the greatest insult of the love and trust to be guarded when one is offering their love and commitment without reserve. Personally, I expect no less. Something I will not compromise on. Its a meaningless marriage to marry someone that cannot trust me. And it doesn't matter if its 3/4 through the marriage or a done deal already.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
One thing for you to ponder about. Who you feel good to let your partner be financially strapped while you enjoy big buffers? And would you limit all your combined expenses to how much he can only afford knowing he probably cannot sustain more financial commitment?

How far can you guys go this way? Do you feel good knowing your partner has to go on $2.50 daily meals while you accumulate your savings?
 

shirleypoise

New Member
lll,

There will def be things that you could contribute in the future. However if you are really uncomfortable with him paying for everything, why not just push back the wedding to a time where you r more financially stable?
But then again, he may still wanna pay for everything..

Jazzy,

Money n living together are the major issues in a marriage. If the 2 of u can't come to terms with them now, it's best to postpone the marriage till a much later date when the 2 of u can come to a compromise.

At the same time, u can't and should never force yourself into the marriage now. Just think about all the years that both of you would have to "suffer" after marriage... or even to the extend of getting a divorce... all these are not worth the rush..

We should always be comfortable with the life ahead before venturing into it.
 

simpleman

Active Member
jazzy,

With your thinking it is better that you remain single.. why are you even considering getting married?

You need to adjust your mindset if you are getting married.. You are not a tenant in his house. You are going to share the house with him.

For sure you will need a lot of other adjustment.. like the MIL.. Or you may not even stand the way he dirty the toilet? Or his sleeping habits?
 

wat_are_dreamz

New Member
Hi Jazzy, i'm glad tat u are going to take a break n seriously think abt the r/ship. It is truly impt tat couples step into marriage cos they love each other, have the same goals n are prepared for the journey ahead.

If u do love ur HTB n want to take time to work things out w him n get a better mutual understanding, u shd postpone ur wedding n take a longer engagement period. If i'm not wrong, for invitation card n bridal pkg, u can hold. Banquet can try n sell off or check the cancellation policy.

If u realize tat u dun really love ur HTB, its a gd time to be honest w him. U can still enjoy ur single carefree individualistic life after tat but rem for the avg guy on the street, if u want to step into marriage, u will have to shake off ur spolit child mentality n be prepared to share all the responsibilities w him.

AB, i like ur post. Hee. Well-said for the last para. =>
 

kittenpie

New Member
Evon,

i reread Jazzy's post after reading your post. i still dont think she is particularly stingy or childish.

Jazzy and her husband earn the same. Jazzy's husband has been maintaining his household (his own + his mum's expenses) before marriage. Meanwhile, Jazzy has been giving her own parents token allowances every month.

so on Jazzy's husband's insistence, Jazzy would be bearing half the expenses of the new household (Jazzy + Husband + MIL) after marriage. that means that Jazzy is subsidising her MIL living expenses - water bills, food, electricity etc etc.

Jazzy did not comment on this area, but i assume that there is no plan for Jazzy's husband to make a dollar-for-dollar contribution to Jazzy's parents. or will Jazzy be pressured to stop giving to her parents due to this new arrangement?

Now, how is this fair to Jazzy's parents?

she offered to pay the incremental expenses that her living with her new family would create. i think in fact, that is fair.

thus, i dont think Jazzy is particularly selfish. Jazzy, if you are reading this, pls note my encouragement and support of you. you are ok and should not harbour any unnecessary guilt.

of course, there is also the best alternative of both the husband and wife making much more $ than they do right now, creating more prosperity for both sets of family such that these kind of living overheads will be paltry expenses for both of them, such that there is no need to argue who pays what. this is in fact the best option, but also ultimately the most difficult one.
 

kittenpie

New Member
Milo, i agree that calculative relationships are tiring.

the reason why people are calculative could be limited resources. so i propose that the ultimate solution is to increase the resources. but that is also the most challenging part.

in Singapore,some traditions still reign strong, and many men still foot most of the expenses in the household. Jazzy's husband is not just in conflict with this norm, he in fact indirectly asks her to in effect subsidise his mother. if i were Jazzy, i would feel vaguely short-changed too.

i would think, "Not only do i have to live with your mum, i also have to pay for her."

that is akin to adding injury to insult
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Not entirely true but having more buffer surely can help.
The thing is when we have more resources, one might be planning for more and pursuing better material quality of life. Nothing wrong with wanting a better life. But, effectively resources will always be limited realistically for most folks.
 

simpleman

Active Member
may,

I think it is too calculative. Yes, you are right as an individual. Jazzy has a right as an individual to look at it from her perspective.

But as a wife - if she wants to get married - it means that the marriage is short-changing her? A marriage is more than just the money. If she is calculating in this manner - never mind if she wants to get married, she should not get married at all.

Of course people don't want to be shortchanged when they are getting married. And women especially: I am already marrying you. Now I have to live with you mother. And now I still have to subsidize her?

Take it from another angle. Suppose, the mil is non-existent. Will Jazzy then agree to pay everything 50-50? And what you think that amount will be? Or she is also thinking just top up?

Suppose 50-50 is the $X. Then Jazzy should just contribute $X and not the top up amount. Now you add in the MIL and whatever increase in expenses to be borne by HB. This is more equitable. And not the top-up mentality.

This is just my analysis.

Of course personally, I would pay for everything in the household. The wife can contribute whatever she wants. I don't really care.
 

simpleman

Active Member
And I would say she is selfish because she is only looking at her perspective. It is not wrong to be selfish and to place one's interest about all the others.

But in a marriage, we got to give something to it and not everything we see how the marriage can benefit us.

And look at it from another perspective. She is a grown adult and she is not short-changing her parents? Rightly she should move out and pay for all her bills as an individual. But she leech on her parents even when she is entirely capable to feed herself.
 

simpleman

Active Member
may

the reason why people are calculative could be limited resources.


Limited resources is just an excuse. Did she say she is short of funds. She just don't feel good about "subsidizing"
 

kittenpie

New Member
SM,

for the fun of it, haha, i once did a computation on what are the incremental expenses i create by my living with my parents.

as we are simple folks who eat simply (shop at wet market for mundane things like pork and caixin), buy low-end toiletries and are basically not electricity fiends as we do not use aircon ...

about S$200 is enough to cover the incremental costs i add to them. but i have not factored in the lost rental component (the rental income they lost by me staying in their room). i dont think they care about living with tenants though, so the lost rental factor is quite irrelevant to my family

unless Jazzy gives her parents a measly token, her living expenses on her parents are easily covered by the allowances she gives them. i do not think it is easy to shortchange one's parents based on the market rate at which today's adult children give allowance to their parents.

Jazzy, would you care to verify this?

SM, what steps would you advise Jazzy to take now? how would you counsel her if she were your daughter?
 

kittenpie

New Member
SM,

Rightly she should move out and pay for all her bills as an individual. But she leech on her parents even when she is entirely capable to feed herself.

=================================================

my parents are conservative Asian folks. they want their children to live with them until they are married.

what is your take on this? at what stage would you expect your children to move out?
 


simpleman

Active Member
Seriously, this is the Asian or rather the Chinese mentality. We want to be independent, earn our keep, freedom to make friends, enjoy life and yet at the same time we want to be traditional when it comes with benefit.

When an adult is fully capable of earning their keep, they should move out. If not at age 27 then at least by 30. They would have worked for almost a decade. If really wanting to stay with parents or at the parents insistence, then they should pay for the market share - like paying rent, household expenses - as if they are living on their own. Some parents may not want the money but it is good to put aside.

Calculating incremental expenses in your manner is not reflective of actual conditions. If you have to move out and stay on your own, what you think will be the expenses? You cannot just count incremental expenses.. you have to pay for a portion of the infrastructure..

As for Jazzy it is just her mindset. Firstly I don't think she wants to get married so this is the most important point. Nevermind the financials. If marriage is what she wants, then she as a part to play to contribute to it. Perhaps not 50-50, but she should agree with HB on a ratio that she is comfortable. If you use the incremental analysis for the MIL, then then it is just a few hundreds to feed the MIL anyway. so, what is the big deal?
 

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