Making a difficult decision

[mistral]

I have made one of the most difficult decisions of my life. It sounds silly to be asking for views at this stage, but all the same I am curious to know how others would have responded if they were in my shoes. My situation is as follows:

About two years ago, more as a response to silence parental nagging to date more people, I signed on with a dating agency. Eleven dates passed with disappointing results, but chemistry struck on the twelfth and (to fast forward till to-date) our relationship progressed to the stage of engagement; we were intending to ROM in October this year.

My fiance is a Malaysian while I am a Singaporean, our families based in our respective countries while he works in Singapore. The possibility of relocation (should his parents become frail or bedridden) should have been and was a warning bell long ago, but I chose to believe that the strength of our love, mutual respect and problem-solving would somehow compensate for the feelings of guilt I would have, in not being so readily accessible to my parents in their time of need. Because of this hope, I accepted his proposal 2 months ago.

After reading some of the threads in this forum, it occurred to me that perhaps I should not leave everything till “when it happens” but instead, consider my options in the event when both parties’ parents are sick simultaneously. Because of past regrets (that my grandmother had no one by her bedside, except her maid, when she passed away) and a sense of responsibility to my parents (who have doted me since I was young), I am only able to consider 2 options that I am comfortable with. Both options involve being located in the same country with both sets of parents:

a. Everyone in KL. Under this scenario, my husband would have to bear a large part of the financial burden (medical expenses of 4 parents, on top of living expenses of our family which might include 3 children) if I were unable to find a suitable job in KL. I also suspect my parents are unlikely to wish to relocate to KL, given its current climate and considerations of medical expenses;

b. Everyone in Singapore. Under this scenario, my parents being pensioners would be able to receive free medical expenses so the financial burden on my husband and I would be lower. I am also fairly confident of retaining my current pay, which could then be used to offset higher medical expenses of his parents and also engaging additional helpers if need be. Unfortunately, I do not get the sense that his parents are keen to relocate to Singapore in that scenario (and I don’t blame them).

Another option I considered was us being apart for the period of sickness on both side’s parents – and I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t think I can confidently handle a long-distance relationship, caring for sick parents and managing children’s needs at the same time.

Given these considerations, I spoke to my fiancé and mentioned that option b seemed to be the only solution that I could offer, as I would not want him to bear the stress of the financial burden under option a (and also because my parents are unlikely to agree to this option, as it does not make financial sense to them).

In the event that option b is not an option, it will mark the end of our engagement and we will have to pick up the pieces slowly, knowing that our love is still deep but may hopefully fade with time.

Would anyone of you have chosen any differently and why? I invite you to critique my deliberations and decision, but would appreciate you sharing your basis for doing so to aid my own self-development.

Thanks.

 

[duckyholic]

are both side parent v old and down with a lot of sickness already ?

Arent you thinking a bit too far ahead ??
Pardon me for saying but you should be more focus on working on your new marriage instead of thinking so far down the road...

so many couples got married and relocate elsewhere. or people marry a foreigner etc...i just felt you thinking too far

who knows the marriage would have break down by then ( U never know, everyone got married without imagining a divorce but people change and things just happened) and all these would not have been an issues...

my cousin was so deeply in love and married an australian doctor and relocate there, after 10 years with 3 kids, they still divorce last year and she returned to sg.

Things you should do now is to continue to work on your relationship ...other things will settle in as time go by

 

[miloice]

its good to think ahead. But you are looking at the worst case scenario and deciding to break down basing on that??

To me, the breakup is inevitable in the worst case scenario. But this scenario might not happen at all. If your idea of marriage is die die cannot fail, then don't marry. No marriage will guarantees that. The idea is really to find someone that is flexible and supportive. You will have the confidence and faith in the relationship if your mate is understanding. It doesn't mean finding someone that will never have any conflict of interest with you. Its impossible.

The next time you drive on go on the road, do you think that potentially, you can be hit and become handicap? Do you start thinking if you should even travel out of your house?

 

[fairyprincess]

Agree with Milo....

Many marriages break down way way before any parents become ill and sick....so this should not be the only factor in deciding if you should marry this guy...

 

[mistral]

Thanks for the feedback thus far, everyone.

Yes, it is a given that we have considered alignment of values, compatibility of temperament and long-term goals (apart from parents) before we reached this stage. I infer that this is the point you are trying to bring out, when citing the scenario where couples divorce way before parents fall sick.

 

[miloice]

Mistral,

We should consider likely and probably situations. Your concerns are valid. But, conflicts are inevitable. The focus shouldn't be to define all the possible problems. There will be issues you cannot anticipate.

we can talk about all the what ifs but talk is not the same as being truly in the situation. What's important is your comfort and confidence level about this man. Is he the supportive partner that would be willing to go through the expected and unexpected difficulties in life with you. Similarly, will you be supportive and understanding towards him as well.

 

[mistral]

"What's important is your comfort and confidence level about this man. Is he the supportive partner that would be willing to go through the expected and unexpected difficulties in life with you. Similarly, will you be supportive and understanding towards him as well."

Thanks, Milo. I believe we will be as supportive towards each other as is humanly possible, under the circumstances - bearing in mind that under this particular scenario, we would have to make sure our respective parents feel cared for.

We have since talked about the issue, no conclusions as of yet. Perhaps we will just need to give ourselves more time to consider the options, with no guarantee that it will end on a positive note. Regardless, this is a learning journey I will appreciate and time well-spent, because I love him very much.

 

[23junie]

Hmm... not all 4 parents will fall ill at the same time. The odds are against such a scenerio. But I applaud your ability to plan way before hand!! do they have preexisting conditions?

 

[mistral]

Yes, both our mothers (in their 60s) have high blood cholesterol and some heart-related problems. Our fathers are in their 70s, generally still alright although my dad is walking awkwardly to minimise pain from wearing down of cartilage in his knees.

Frankly, I do not know if I am "thinking too much" or overly pessimistic / cautious as some of my friends have pointed out. I just hope I am not acting irresponsibly by forming a family, knowing I may not be as well-equipped to handle this worst case scenario. Because ultimately, if the marriage cannot take the stress, the children will suffer and our parents may feel sad seeing this development.

 

[advisor00]

To TS

The option to take is so simple.

Is your htb a capable man, with good educational qualification, as in being a high income earner and can make a good living both in Boleh land as well as in Singapore?

If so, re-located all to Singapore.

If not, all stay in Boleh land, cheaper but not up to standard.

So it is really the money part.

No money or not enough, then don't get married.

Cheers

 

[mistral]

Thanks kengleetan.

Money is less of an issue here for the relocation of scenario; rather, it's whether either side's parents are willing to uproot and settle in a new country after spending decades in their comfort zones.

Having said that, I realise it is not fair to impose such a request on parents, so the strain will have to be borne by the couple themselves.

 

[alcifertoh]

TS, are the both of you only child? Have you'll discuss the scenario with both set of parents?

Sometimes the elders might have their own views wor when you are worrying over here. It is important to hear their views before any decisions and assumptions.

 

[lovingyou]

Mistral: Have your FHB and you discuss such issues with both sides parents? Assumptions wun get you anywhere.

 

[mistral]

Hi Hei Bee Hiam,

He has 2 siblings and has raised this with his family. His parents are not keen to relocate to Singapore (social networks established in KL), while his sisters have expressed willingness to help look after his parents during the times we are away from KL (within their means, as they may have their own families to look after, as well). As theirs is a more traditional family, there seems to be underlying hope in the family that he, as the only son, ought to assume more responsibility for taking care of his parents – especially as he has been working in Singapore for a good number of years already.
As for myself, I have a sibling who is also willing to help look after our parents when I am away from Singapore. I have not yet raised this issue again with my parents, although in earlier times they had indicated that they were not keen on relocation to KL as it does not make financial sense and their social networks are established here. Honestly, my parents haven’t been too thrilled all this while about my dating a Malaysian (what more, marrying one) so I can foresee that fireworks will be flying when I revisit this issue soon.

In the end, I think our parents will leave it to us to make our final decision. The fact that siblings are willing to pitch in is nice, but it may ultimately not negate the feelings of guilt or sense of responsibility we have, for not being by our parents' side at their time of need (unless we live separately during the period of sickness).

 

[alcifertoh]

If it's me, I might do it this way.

Firstly, Staying in Sg/Malaysia makes no diff. The place that gives you the most prospect and income matters.

Then, apart from siblings, also get a caretaker to look after the parents which is at the other side. Then during weekends or what, pop by to visit parents. Both countries are very accessible by transports and a flight up to and fro takes less than an hour.

An understanding can be reach by both parties and caring for our parents not neccessary means staying by their side always. Even if you are in the same country, you have to work, might go outstation and also have your family to look after too.

In the event if the illness really got so bad and require one's attention so much, the offspring can just go back for a period of time to accompany the parent with the partner popping by during weekends to support. It's workable.

 

[findingnemo]

Hi Mistral, you are a very filial child to think about the welfare of both set of parents.

How about this... neither set of parents need to relocate but can visit on a long term basis. If let's say you relocate to KL, your parents can visit and live with you for a period of time then go back to Sg so that your other siblings can visit them.

 

[mistral]

Thanks for your further comments, all.

Nemo, the scenario that you've raised is doable when one set of parents is still mobile. The scenario I have in mind (1 or both parents on each side being bedridden or frail) is after a certain timeframe (10-20 years) with both sets of parents no longer being able to travel easily.

The more I think about it, the more it appears that it will have to be a long-distance relationship for sometime (hopefully not beyond 1 year) and a lot of effort (weekly meet-ups), understanding, faithfulness and trust will be needed to sustain it - not to mention handling children's feelings when they wish to see the missing spouse (during weekdays).

The question is whether we will be able to face the challenge, given that people do change over time.

 

[alcifertoh]

There is no guarentee in this world. When issues occur and if we need to handle it, we handle it. I do feel you are worrying too much here.

And also let's be frank. After a certain timeframe 10 - 20 years, parents might not be around anymore. So we just do what we can when the need arises. And not the worrying stop us from progressing and holding back.

 

[mistral]

I appreciate your sharing of thoughts very much, Hei Bee Hiam.

Thanks for taking time to pen it down.

 

[alcifertoh]

No worries. We are all the same having the responsibility towards our parents and such. I just feel that it's good that we realise such issues to come and anticipate it with preparations to handle them well.

The latest that happened to me was my grandmother getting hit by stroke 3 years back. Warded in hospital for about 3 months and I was there almost everyday after work and juggling between everything in life. As I am very close with my grandmother, I felt obligated to be there with her almost everyday till it affected my performance and wiping up my annual leaves.

Then I was told by my elders that I need not be there everyday. Even I am there apart from being around, I could not do much. Hence, instead of emphasising on quantity, I forcus on quality.

Now my grandmother has more or less recovered but still in frail health. I do still pop by whenever I can to accompany her and bring her out once in a while. she is happy for that for she understands that we have our other responsibilities to fulfill and she also don't wish to hold us back.

Hence, if you are willing to work it out with your HTB, together this issue can be easily solved. Probably it might be abit taxing physically and in matter of time but well, it's always worth it isn't it?

All the best

 

[mistral]

Thanks so much for your well-wishes, and sharing your own experience in caring for your beloved granny

We are going to talk more on this over the next few days (and weeks, if need be). If he values this relationship as much as I do, then pursuing my happiness is an option I will seriously consider. And we will have to put in every bit of effort to sustain us through these challenges. At the back of my head, though, I have to bear in mind that we may have to let go of our relationship if it fails through drifting apart, despite all our efforts to communicate and understand each other's challenges. So in a way, this option would be a gamble - no different from other marriages, I suppose, since nothing is really guaranteed.

 

[mistral]

Last night I spoke to him and painted him a scenario where I was in Singapore with schooling kids while he was in KL, and we would have to take turns to fly to each of our countries fortnightly (so that he can see my parents and our family, and I, his); and that even though I might miss him and want to take leave to spend more time with him, the kids could not afford to forego classes / tests / exams. (Leaving them behind might also incur my in-laws' displeasure if they mistake that I am keeping the children away from them; so that is an area that would need to be carefully managed.)

Given my need for quality time, I asked if he would be willing to increase communication in other forms eg. 3 short calls a day. His answer was "I'm not sure if that is really necessary" - perhaps due to his own upbringing, or whatever reason he may have. It was not an answer that assured me he would do what it takes to keep the relationship going. I know circumstances may change, but the level of commitment is what I was looking for - but I did not find that forthcoming in that reply.

As the days pass, I feel we are drifing apart, bittersweet memories mingled with leftover love. I am no longer sure if it is logical for me to pull the plug now, or for me to continue with this relationship, prepared for the very worst outcome in years to come.

Come Saturday, a decision will be made. I will have to make sure it is one I never look back on with regret, and it frightens me a little.

 

[miloice]

hi Mistral, the amount of quality time required is subjective and would change as we progress. I understand what you need from him is his commitment to be in the same page as you. But, his answer seems to think the request is an 'overkill'.

Give yourselves sometime to work things out for the most comfortable and appropriate level than request for a fixed commitment. There is no rule that will work for all. So, don't look for such commitments. Look for his commitment rather to be flexible enough to discover with you what works best.

Personally, my 1st biz trip was for 3 month. Then, I made phone calls daily lasting around 10 mins. Now, we are comfortable with the occasional SMS / email updates. Normally, couples learn to be more independent and less clingy / needy over time. This is important as everyone need to continue to function individually for our career, family, social etc.

 

[heartpain]

Hi Mistral

It seems to me that you may worry too much?
As you said, you have a sibling in Singapore and he or she can still take care of your parents.

You can still visit your parents even if you are in KL. Some people just dont think so much ahead and your HTB may not be able to give a commitment which is based on a scenario 10 years down the road? You can't be disappointed in him based on that : ) I know, as a woman, we need a lot of assurances etc but some pple just don't plan and think so far ahead.

Btw, tt seems to me that you love your parents more than your HTB?? your relationship with your HTB does not seem to be very strong as you are thinking of whether to be with him based on plans 10 years down the road. You have to be true of your own feelings towards your HTB.

 

[mistral]

Thanks for your take on the situation, Milo. I will bear that in mind as we continue with our discussions.

Hi heartpain,

I believe my parents have done more than their fair share of taking care of me for the past few decades, and it is precisely because of this that I feel the need to be there to reciprocate the amount of love they have showered on me. To the point that when I look back on the days when we watched drama serials together, travelled together, I can't seem to stop tearing when I think of the sacrifices they have made.

It's hard to tell who I love more (one could argue that if I loved my parents more, I would never have given my fiance so many chances in the past, knowing what potentially lies ahead). Perhaps I am just being more pragmatic about the situation. Knowing how much we each love our parents, I cannot be blind to the fact that there is such a possible scenario ahead. And if there is no strong chance of the relationship withstanding the challenge, why go further into it, only to become a divorce rate contributor years down the road?

Honestly, I am tempted to just go along with the arrangement not because of the announcements we have made, not because I want to have that wonderful wedding but because I still have feelings for him.

My only concern now is whether it is worth all the pain and mess that may come afterwards so that is why I need an indication of his commitment to want to make things work.

 

[heartpain]

Hi Mistral

Thanks for the sharing. Sorry if I appear to be harsh in my previous post. If you love each other, I am sure all problems can be worked out! Have fatih!

I wish you the very best and I hope you find a solution soon.

 

[mistral]

No hard feelings, heartpain

I just need to remind myself to be strong, no matter what outcome arises.

 

[cuclainne]

mistral, shouldn't you be working towards staying together as a family instead of envisioning him being in KL and you staying here with the kids in 10 years' time?

i married a foreigner too .. though his home country is a loooong way from here. his parents are older than mine but my parents are more sickly - my father has had a heart bypass recently and my mom is a diabetic who requires insulin shots in the morning and night.

it doesn't matter which country we are in .. one set of parents are bound to be left to their own devices. when we're in singapore, we worry about his parents .. when we're in sweden, we worry about my family ..

being filial doesn't always mean being under the same roof as our parents, etc .. sometimes a simple gesture like a surprise visit, a phone call, etc works wonders. i see quite a number of people trying to 'make up' for what their parents have done for them at the expense of them being able to live out their own lives .. you can still be a responsible, filial child even if you don't live under the same roof, in the same town or even the same country.

 

[mistral]

Hi cuclainne, everyone who has taken the time to share your views so far,

I appreciate your feedback. After a long discussion last night, in which he shared his perspective of how things had turned out, he asked that we have a clean separation after we attend the second segment of the marriage preparation course we signed up for tomorrow. The aim is to "empty our minds" and self-reflect on what it is we want in life and what we need in our life partners.

There is no guarantee we will ever get back, and basically we will be completely free to date other people. (In his view, it will let us see what sort of people we like or dislike and help to further identify what we need for ourselves.) He does not want to just delay the wedding, as he thinks we are too entrenched into wanting the relationship to work, and not taking a step back to see if the fundamentals are indeed sound.

While all this sounds logical, it does nothing for my feelings at the moment. I am really sad, and keeping it temporarily from my parents hurts when they continue talking about housing, reception and shopping of evening wear. I will be breaking the news to them later this weekend, and in the meantime I pray for strength and enlightenment.

With heaven's grace and support from my loved ones, I will get through this dark stage of my life.

 

[precious_11]

Hi Mistral,

I think its a pity to let go for the relationship because of something we "think" might happen in the future..

Actually I would believe lots of couple face this scenario coz inter marriages between Singaporeans and Msians is really quite common.. and somehow things just work out.. you are prob more fortunate than others coz u still have help from both your siblings.

Imagning a worse case scenario (Im not cursing anyone here so pls pls pls dun get offended), istead of a long drawn illness, either families parents may just pass on peacefully relatively smoothly... then dun u think all your worries would be unfounded??

Just my 2 cents worth...

 

[simpleman]

I think it is good to think ahead but "over-analyzing" and over-provisioning is not wise.

We can't really know what is going to happen tomorrow. The most important is for couples to stay committed to each other - in spirit and willing to work together in face of obstacles. Can discuss about the broad guidelines but if we are going into details that will happen 10 years down the road, I think it is a bit too far fetched.

In this case, you should not even think about a relationship at all. I believe if you find someone that can grown with you - that someone will be an extension of you and you will be an extension of him/her. If the two are together, unlikely that we cannot compromise and work together to face problems together.

And also check with the parents their preferences. You may really want to take care of them and live with them, but what about them? do they tell you exactly what they want?

If I am a parent, I wouldn't want my daughter to give up a good man or a good marriage just because she wants to be with me and take care of me. And the regrets of the parents to think that their daughters "sacrifice" her happiness for the parents? I don't know.. which parents can accept that? I know I can't. I would even chase my daughter out if she has such thoughts.

As a daughter, it is not "really filial" to want to take care of parents. You have to think what is happiness for your parent. What they want and not what you think you can give them.

I know I would want my daughters to be happily married - even if she is not by my side. Even if I have to die all by myself in a hospital or a nursing home.

 

[simpleman]

mistral,

I think your bf is absolutely correct. If we are all confused about the relationship.. it is good to take a step backwards. Yes, it is logical.. and yes, you will not feel good because you may want to hear something else..

Take this opportunity to do some reflection as well.

 

[simpleman]

mistral,

Why don't you talk to your parents.. why can't we share with our parents our most inner thoughts and feelings. Why must we always think not to let other people worry and keep things from them?

This is as real as it can get. Your parents are part of the equation in the marriage. Talk to them about your fears. Hear them out. Don't always assume you know best.. you may have good intentions but at times, our thoughts are limited by our own experiences and prejudices..

 

[mistral]

Thanks, sm, for sharing your perspective. I think I will talk to my parents about this.

As for the impending separation, it is exhausting and painful to try to kill the leftover love and any unnecessary hopes I may have that the relationship may rekindle.

I will try to take things one day at a time.

 

[simpleman]

misral,

Separation is naturally painful.. but it may turn out better for all.

It could let us see more clearly what we need. Or perhaps what we don't need.

Especially in the initial stages of separation. It can be killing.. find things to do.. after a while it will get better.

Who knows, you two may be together pretty soon and much stronger than before.

 

[mistral]

"Who knows, you two may be together pretty soon and much stronger than before."

I cannot harbour such thoughts, unfortunately. Because with this hope, it will be unbearable not having any conclusion in the event he never contacts me after this. That's why it is painful - to snuff out any feelings of hope.

I am now actively finding things to do, as you have suggested - even signing on for a studio package allowing me to capture my youth, with my parents with me.

Thanks again for your sharing. I appreciate it.

 

[simpleman]

mistral,

Sorry. What I was saying is not to give you false hope. I have been there and done that. But we can never know what is going to happen in the future. Don't put your hopes on it. do you stuff, get on with your life.. You two now may walk different paths.. but who knows if one day may cross again? This was what I mean.

 

[mistral]

Yes, I know you mean well.

Thanks, sm

Just knowing that there are others out there who take the time to consider my situation and share their perspectives already makes me blessed.

 

[mistral]

It's been close to 4 months since I last posted and the separation took place.

In the beginning, it was painful to the point that I couldn't eat or sleep properly. But then, I started throwing myself out of my comfort zone through various activities:

- Reading a variety of non-fiction books (including self-help, basic investment knowledge, fashion)
- Attending events that improve the mind (eg. property and investment seminars)
- Signing up for events, with the key intention of honing my socialisation skills (since I knew I was too bruised to consider any relationship for the next few months or year)
- Building upon interests such as photography

The sadness still comes in waves, sometimes crashing over me at the most random of times (eg. on the way to work) but always receding after I tell myself it is for the best, and that I will get over it in time.

It also helps to remind myself of Emerson's quote:

"Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail".

For all of us who face challenges, may we not lose heart. Instead, to look ahead, plan for our future and find our happiness.

 

[thommy]

Sad to hear this mistral. I do honestly think that your relationship with him was a workable one after reading thru the whole thread.

all the best, hope you can find your soulmate soon

 

[miloice]

Mistral, u can be proud of how you are coping with the breakup.

"The sadness still comes in waves, sometimes crashing over me at the most random of times (eg. on the way to work) but always receding after I tell myself it is for the best, and that I will get over it in time."

This is the kind of positive mindset one needs in life.

 

[eastcoast]

hey mistral, if u are still hanging around, i hope u give it a 2nd thought. chances are the next one that you met will have the same issues. u should live for urself and not ur parents. being filial is one thing. to live for urself is also being filial (doesn't mean don't take care of parents hor..)

 

[mistral]

Hi all

Thanks for your comments.

It's true that this issue in itself could have been addressed if there were an intention on both parties' part to treat each other's family with equal respect and consideration. I did not get the feeling it was mutual, however, (he is more traditional in outlook) and there was also little willingness from him to treat each circumstance on a case-by-case basis (in other words, he expected his wife to 'give in' to his family for all issues that mattered to both sides' families).

Anyway, it is water under the bridge and I can only do what I can to move on, despite the relapses I feel sometimes.

Onward to better things, I say